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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
Tyrone "Muggsy" Bogue Talks Charlotte Violent Protests; Congressional Black Caucus Plans March in Washington; Trump Talks Charlotte Riots; Opinion Piece: Ethics Problem if Trump in White House. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired September 22, 2016 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's something that athletes have begun speaking out about a lot. Colin Kaepernick really leading the charge in the NFL, not standing, now kneeling during the national anthem. Do you support that? What is the role, do you think, of athletes in this going forward?
TYRONE "MUGGSY" BOGUES, RETIRED NBA BASKETBALL PLAYER & CHARLOTTE RESIDENT (voice-over): Well, again, you got so many things that's happening in the world. People are picking one athlete because they use a platform to stand out on certain things. Man, we respect the flag. We respect, you know, the national anthem. A lot of things are happening and how people display how they want to respond to it, that's their right. But I'm not going to go one way or another and judge anybody judging stage.
I'm in a stage of trying to find a solution, you know. We are picking on that one incident. It's a lot of things that happen in this world that's not right. There's a lot of beautiful things that's going on in this world that is right, that we need to also stress and continue to let, this is a wonderful America, a dream, to where I had the opportunity as the smallest basketball player in the world to dream in America, to think that it is possible and it was able to be possible for me.
I'm witness to the first African-American president, who I am so proud, of that to be here and not even thought that I would be on this earth to witness that is amazing. We have come so far. We got so much work to do but we have come so far and why we can't keep building from that. Why people got to just look at individuals and look at what this man was trying to do and good, all the good that he was trying to instill in America. Maybe he don't have the answer for everything but he had the right intention. He has the right intentions about human rights. This is not about color. It's about human rights. To see someone on that platform to be eloquent, who can spit out the words intellectually and try to put this thing on a global platform, not just as America, but as a global, to have people's rights to be heard, diplomacy be heard, democracy be heard, that's something that we should be striving for. But, no, we sit back and we criticize instead of we help. Maybe it's not. I'm not a politician. I'm not in the political world but I'm all about common sense. I'm all about rights for everybody. Rights for everyone. As much as we've come and the disparity between the rich and the poor, it's no way that we should not be doing so much to those ones that are less fortunate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: As you talk about the basic respect for one another here on the ground, as we look at images from overnight, it seems that it is exactly what everyone can hope is the first step to calming what we're looking at right now in Charlotte, in your city.
Muggsy Bogues, thank you for your time.
BOGUES: Thank god. Thanks for having me.
BERMAN: He was saying he was the smallest NBA player ever, maybe smallest in size, but the guy has a giant heart. Right now, you could hear it in his voice, that heart is breaking.
The police shooting in Charlotte have so many community leaders there outraged and members of Congress are demanding change right now. They are outlining their demands in a new letter. We will speak to a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, next.
[11:38:14] BOLDUAN: In just a few minutes, the Congressional Black Caucus is planning a march in Washington to protest the recent police shootings of African-American men.
BERMAN: We have been covering, of course, the violent protests that broke out overnight in Charlotte, North Carolina after police shot and killed Keith Lamont Scott, the man there. North Carolina's governor has declared a state of emergency, said he was going to bring in the National Guard to restore order.
Let us bring in right now Ohio Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
Congresswoman, thank you for your time.
Do want to get your take. Members of the Congressional Black Caucus will be marching to the Department of Justice to demand more. What more do you demand?
REP. JOYCE BEATTY, (D), OHIO: Yes. We are going to march today to the U.S. Department of Justice because we know that we can no longer just have community meetings. We can't be silent. So today is to let the American public know that we want to make sure that the U.S. Department of Justice is engaged. We want to have independent investigations going into these communities so we take away all doubt or perception of the biases. We are losing too many lives, too many African-American boys, men and girls are being killed and it's an epidemic. This is our first way of saying that the Congressional Black Caucus wants America to know that we are going to be fully engaged, not only in North Carolina but in Ohio, in Tulsa, all across the United States.
BERMAN: Congresswoman, we heard from the police chief in Charlotte who says at this point he has no plans to make public the video of the incident where Keith Lamont Scott was killed. Do you think that's a good idea? How much transparency is needed in this investigation?
[11:40:00] BEATTY: I think right now, we can't do business as usual. Right now, the country is in an uproar and we have an epidemic. I think transparency is of the utmost. I understand the legalities. I understand that you have to have a full investigation. The families are asking people to be nonviolent, to make sure that we don't put -- get anything in the way that will prevent us from getting to the truth. But I think we have to be transparent. I think right now, America is in an uproar. African-American leaders, African-American communities are begging for help. This must stop and we must be fully engaged. We have to be on the same page with the law enforcement, with the legal community and with the grassroots community. We no longer can have isolated groups speaking without us being united.
BOLDUAN: As you mentioned being on the same page, at this point, do you not trust the Charlotte police to handle this investigation? Do you not trust the investigation that's going on right now?
BEATTY: I don't think it's only the trust issue. I think it is the appearance of fairness. If this were our only case, but when you repeatedly have 13-year-olds, 20-year-olds, ending up at the end of a gun, whether it is African-American to African-American, whether it is a white police officer to a 13-year-old, we can't say we are going to do what we did four years ago or five years ago. We must be in this together and we must be fully transparent.
BOLDUAN: Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
BEATTY: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: We want to make sure we tell our viewers Donald Trump is expected to speak about the riots in Charlotte, the protests there, and the violence there just moments from now. We will listen in, in a second. Stand by.
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And it needs the spirit of togetherness that has not really only got us through our toughest times, and we have had some tough times, but which has lifted us up in the past to our greatest achievements as a nation.
Every day I see people of different backgrounds working together for a common good and we need to bring that spirit to every part of our country, and become one American nation, united by shared values and principles as American citizens. We have to do it. We have to respect our flag. We have to respect our flag.
TRUMP: We all have to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, see things through their eyes, and then get to work fixing our very wounded country. I mean, we have some real problems and we do have a wounded country. Many Americans are watching the unrest in Charlotte unfolding right
before their eyes on the TV screens. Others are witnessing the chaos and the violence first-hand. Our country looks bad to the world, especially when we are supposed to be the world's leader. How can we lead when we can't even control our own cities?
We honor and recognize the right of all Americans to peacefully assemble, protest and demonstrate, but there is no right to engage in violent disruption or to threaten the public safety and peace of others. Every single American in our country is entitled to live in a safe community. The violence against our citizens and our law enforcement must be brought to a very rapid end. The people who will suffer the most as a result of these riots are law-abiding African- American residents who live in these communities where the crime is so rampant. It's their jobs, housing market, schools, economic conditions that will suffer. And the first duty of government is to protect their well-being and safety. We have to do that.
There is no compassion in tolerating lawless conduct. Crime and violence is an attack on the poor and will never be accepted in a Trump administration. Never, ever.
Our job --
TRUMP: Our job is not to make life more comfortable for the violent disrupter, but to make life more comfortable for the African-American parent trying to raise their kids in peace, to walk their children to school and to get their children great educations. We have to cherish and protect those people.
[11:45:19] For every one violent protester, there are thousands of moms and dads and kids in that same community who just want to be able to really sleep safely at night, to be able to walk on the streets, to be able to go to the grocery store.
More law enforcement, more community engagement, more effective policing is what our country needs and we need it quickly. Last year, we saw a 17 percent rise in violent crime in our 50 largest cities. Homicides are up nearly 50 percent in Washington, D.C. and more than 60 percent in Baltimore. More than 3,000 people have been shot in Chicago so far this year from January 1st. Can you believe that? Nationwide, approximately 60 percent of murder victims under the age of 22 are African-American. This is a national crisis and it's the job of the next president of the United States to work with our governors and mayors to address this crisis and save African-American lives.
Look at the example that we had in New York of Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He has been a tremendous person for me, friend of mine for a long time, and a big endorser. Big, big endorser. The policies he put into place ultimately brought down crime by 76 percent and murder in New York by 84 percent. Think of how many families these policies saved from the worst heartache imaginable. We need a national anti-crime agenda to make our cities safe again.
We have to make our cities safe again. We will appoint the best prosecutors, investigators and federal law enforcement officers in the country to dismantle the international cartels, gangs and criminal syndicates. And I will stop the drugs from flowing into our country and poisoning our youth and many other people.
TRUMP: And if you're not aware, drugs are a very, very big factor in what you're watching on television at night.
My administration will work with local communities and local officials to make the reduction of crime a top priority.
Safety is the foundation of the ladder to American success. A great education and a really good job. We have lost so many of our good jobs to other countries. We are going to be bringing them back right here to Pittsburgh, to Pennsylvania. We are going to be bringing them back to Ohio. We are going to be bringing them back all over the country.
TRUMP: They are coming back. They are coming back.
These trade deals and the people -- I think we'll have to have Harold Ham negotiate a couple trade deals for us, folks.
To have the best schools and the best jobs, you must have safe communities. That means we must recognize the contributions of our police, who come from all backgrounds and all walks of life, and who often thanklessly risk their own lives to protect innocent people, many of whom they have never met.
We all remember earlier this year when officers in Dallas, hunted down for execution, continued protecting the public until their last moments on earth. They were killed.
Every day, police officers risk their lives for really complete strangers and in every year, many of them will go out on calls and never return. It's tough being a police officer. And it's hard now even recruiting police officers. It's a tremendous problem.
Police are entrusted with immense responsibility and we must do everything we can to ensure that they are properly trained, that they respect all members of the public, and that any wrongdoing is always -- and it will be by them -- vigorously addressed. Has to be.
[11: 49:50] But our men and women in blue -- and you know this, the men and women in blue need your support. They need your thanks. And they need your gratitude. They are the line separating civilians and civilization from total chaos. They're also the front lines of defense on the war on terror, as we saw recently with their quick action following the terrorist attacks in New Jersey and New York. And the off-duty police officers, I mean, you saw the heroics of the off-duty police officers in Minnesota. An amazing job they did catching this horrible person so quickly. How do you do that? They figured it out. And within a short period of time, they were able to capture him. Who could do that? That's tougher than finding a whale, I will tell you, right?
In addition to providing safety, we must provide economic opportunity. That begins with school choice and leads to a secure job with a rising income. This brings us to the subject of energy. Producing more American energy is a central part of my plan --
BOLDUAN: Donald Trump in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He's supposed to be speaking about energy, but as you see he's speaking in length in his scripted speech about the violence that has broken out in Charlotte, North Carolina. Speaking in very measured tones and talking about how we are living in a wounded country. Also talking about African-American parents who just want to raise their kids in peace, walk their kids to school. And he also noting the tough job that law enforcement face.
BERMAN: Really a one-two punch here, a different juggling act. He also said, how can we lead when we can't control our own cities. There's no right to engage in violence disruptions.
Joining us now, CNN executive editor of politics, Mark Preston.
Very different Donald Trump we've seen over the last two days. This latest round of protests has sprung up over police shootings of African-American men. Donald Trump expressed what I think and observers think is much more sympathy and empathy for the African- American victims of this. We heard a little bit of that right now. On the other hand, we did get the law-and-order Donald Trump.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: A lot of people were surprised he wasn't as forceful yesterday, speaking out on behalf the men and women in uniform on the streets. But he was clearly very forceful on that, saying we have to respect them, understand they're on the front lines of terror, respect them, if they're not there, we're going to go into lawlessness and chaos.
But Donald Trump -- I wouldn't use the word "cleaning" up necessarily, but certainly was trying to emphasize something a lot of people thought he should have done yesterday.
BOLDUAN: And that has maybe been lacking in his message. A different Donald Trump than we were hearing. We really started hearing yesterday. It continues today. An interesting, interesting moment.
Coming up for us -- thank you so much, Mark.
Coming up for us, moments from now, black lawmakers will be marching to the Department of Justice in Washington over the police shootings across the country. We're going to take you there live. Stand by.
[11:55:48] BOLDUAN: A new opinion piece in "The Washington Post" has this message for the ethics lawyers of a President Donald Trump administration: Good luck. Two former White House ethics attorneys, Richard Painter and Norman Eisen, write this, "Counsel for a President Hillary Clinton would have to address actual and apparent conflicts posed by the Clinton Foundation but those have been disclosed and publicly vetted. They are nowhere near as obscure, profound and dangerous Trump's.
BOLDUAN: Richard Painter was the chief White House ethics lawyer under George W. Bush. He's now a professor of law at the University of Minnesota. He has endorsed Hillary Clinton.
Thanks so much for being with us, sir.
You are concerned about conflicts of interest that Donald Trump might have. What are your biggest concerns?
RICHARD PAINTER, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA & FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Well, I think there are two things that Donald Trump needs to do to address financial conflicts of interest. First, he needs to disclose his tax returns. And he has not yet done that. We need to know what loopholes he's taking advantage of, which provisions of the tax code benefit him, because he's going to have a substantial influence over the tax code as president of the United States. We also need to know where his income is coming from around the world. He has investments all other the world. How much of the income is coming from the United States and how much is coming from outside the United States in places like China and Mexico and all over the world?
The second thing he needs to do is promise he will divest all of his business empire and get himself and his family out of it. It does not work for him simply to turn management of the Trump business entities over to his son or his daughter and retain ownership. The conflicts of interest are way too vast.
BOLDUAN: That's interesting, because on that point, he along with his kids don't think that is a problem. Donald Trump has said he will put his businesses in a blind trust and his kids would run it. They all think that is fine. Why is it not, from your ethics standpoint?
PAINTER: Well, there's nothing blind about turning assets over to your children when you know what the assets are and then having your children manage the assets. It's like putting a diamond ring in a shoe box and pretending you don't know it's there. A blind trust is a very different situation. Sell all the assets for cash, turn it over to a trustee. And the independent trustee invests it in something else. And that's not what he's talking about here.
BERMAN: Do you worry though that this sends a message to other business people or folks in the business community who might want to run for president one day? Does this preclude the possibility of other business men, who may not have as many ethical issues, for trying for the White House?
PAINTER: Not at all. We had many very successful business people come into the Bush administration for executive branch positions. They are required under law to avoid federal conflicts of interests. It would be for them a criminal offense to retain assets that created a conflict of interest with their job and the government. And we recruited very many successful business people in the Obama administration. The president of the United States should behave himself or herself in the same manner as the other members of his or her administration.
BOLDUAN: Can you very quickly just sum up why this should matter to the American people?
PAINTER: Well, the American people should care about having a president whose loyalties are first and foremost to the United States and to the people of the United States, not to his or her own business interests. And the president should disclose where he or she is getting their income, whether it's coming from the United States or elsewhere in the world. And we should know that.
PAINTER: And we should also know that the financial conflicts will be avoided.
BOLDUAN: Richard Painter, thank you so much for joining us.