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Donald Trump Discusses His Marital History; No Apology for Alicia Machado from Trump; Top Democrat Says GOP Has Created Frankenstein Monster. Aired 10-11p ET.

Aired September 29, 2016 - 22:00   ET



[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: That's all the time we have. Thanks for watching. We'll see you tomorrow tonight. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.

DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Donald Trump says it would be disrespectful to bring up Bill Clinton's in discretions in a debate, but what about his own marital history?

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

I want to listen to what Trump tells in H1 News.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it does come up though in the next debate, do you think maybe your past marital history is also a fair game?



LEMON: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton says this on the campaign train today.


IDENTIFIED MALE: Do you as someone who presumably wants more women to run for and win office and high office, feel any obligation if Trump brings up your husband's past to speak out against a spouse's indiscretions or past being brought into a campaign like this?



LEMON: Plus, surprising new questions about Donald Trump's charitable foundation tonight. We have the latest on that story and a bombshell from Howard Stern. There's whole lot to get to this hour, so it is breaking now. A lot of it.

So, I want to get to our CNN politics editor Mark Preston, also Daily Beast columnist David Cay Johnston, author of "Making -- the Making of Donald Trump," and CNN senior Washington senior correspondent, Jeff Zeleny.

OK, gentlemen. Thank you so much. Jeff, let's start with you. Because there's some breaking news out tonight that involves Donald Trump and his support for the Ira war. On his radio show today, Howard Stern is saying that Donald Trump did support the Iraq war. Listen to this.


HOWARD STERN, RADIO SHOW HOST: It always comes up because you know Trump was on our show years ago and said yes, he -- you know, he was kind of for the Iraq war, us going into Iraq.


STERN: He was saying he really wasn't for it, so they were forced to mention my name. Yes. It's cool. Good promotion.


LEMON: So, I want you to listen to the original interview in 2002 from Howard Stern.


STERN: Are you for invading Iraq?

TRUMP: Yes, I guess so. You know, I wish it was -- I wish the first time it was done correctly.


LEMON: So, Jeff, is this damning? I mean, Trump has been claiming all along that he was never for the war in Iraq.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to know if anything is damning or not with the truth scale that Donald Trump sort of operates under here. I mean, it is clear, the record is clear that at the time, of the invasion that he supported it.

The interview with Howard Stern is clear. Donald Trump simply denied that reality on the debate stage on Monday night, said it wasn't true, it wasn't true. Now we have Howard Stern who did the interview with Donald Trump, has been very friendly to him over the years is saying, no, he was for the Iraq war.

Is that going to change anything in the mind of Donald Trump's supporters? Probably not. But in the moment of that debate on Monday night when Donald Trump insisted and repeated that he was opposed to it and he tried to almost call you know a friend, used a life line to call Sean Hannity, he said, ask Sean Hannity. Ask Sean Hannity of Fox News. He knows that I was against the war.

It just simply isn't true. So, I think Howard Stern coming out and saying I mean, he was kind of for the war, certainly adds more truth to it. But I'm not sure it changes the equation because the facts, you know, aren't changing in this. You know, he was for the invasion. He said he was.

LEMON: Yes. A truth scale. Let's talk -- there's now a truth scale. So, we'll -- maybe we should discuss that later. But I mean, he and Howard Stern are friends, at the very least, very friendly. He's been on the show a lot. So, do you think he's going to come out now and condemn Howard?

ZELENY: I don't know if he'll condemn him or not but I think that, you know, they have been very friendly. I don't know if this will come up in the next debate. It's been litigated and litigated to anyone who is still uncertain about this. I think they're not just looking at the record here.

So, we'll see if Donald Trump will, you know, come out against Howard Stern. I don't think that would be very wise to pick a fight with Howard Stern if I was Donald Trump, but we're certainly not offering him any advice. We'll see what he does.

LEMON: That's very smart assessment. I wouldn't pick a fight with Howard Stern either. OK. I want you to stand by, Jeff. Mark, Donald Trump just did an interview with Paul Steinhauser, the political director of New Hampshire as NH1, also worked here at one point. I want to go over this clip by clip and then talk about what he says and also his responses what the response is. Let's look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back on Monday's debate, going into the debate a lot of people said that Hillary Clinton was going to try to bait you and some people say maybe you took the bait. Will you be more disciplined maybe in the second debate?

TRUMP: I don't think I took the bait. You know every online poll had me winning the debate, so every single one of them, many of them, so look I found it to be an amazing experience actually.

We had 88 million people or something around that number and I just found it to be an amazing experience.

[22:05:01] Now I think we did well. I think I did -- you know, I'm very happy with the way it turned out.


LEMON: So, he is still insisting he won citing the online poll. Does he understand those online polls you can sit there and just keep clicking and that there was a campaign to from his supporters to get him to win the debate?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: I mean, we go -- we see this day in and day out. I think Donald Stern -- Donald Stern, gosh, listen to me. I think that Donald Trump lives in an alternative reality at this point. I think that initially he probably doesn't believe it if he said it enough times, he's surrounded by the people that feed into him, and then he eventually believes.

But the problem with this is that this is not a true fact. Those online polls are contest. They're not scientifically done. The only scientific poll that we have seen so far is the CNN/ORC poll that was done immediately afterwards. It was a snap poll scientifically done.

And we showed our methodology including that it was skewed a little bit towards the democrats.

Having said that, the margin was so, so light. Hillary Clinton clearly won that debate. But yet, Donald Trump will continue to go on because when he says that he riles up his base and his base loves when he does it.

LEMON: And those online is acceptable too, but what they can -- you can program something.

PRESTON: Absolutely. And you can keep going back and...

LEMON: Yes. But you can also program something to continue to vote for -- to vote one way. OK. Let's move on now. I want you to listen to another clip.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were asked about the birther question, and you said you were proud of what you did. You did a service to the president and to the country. So do you stand by those comments? You're proud of what you did?

TRUMP: Well, I'm the one that got him to put up his birth certificate. Hillary Clinton was unable to get there and I will tell you. She tried and you look at her campaign and everybody knows it happened. And I would say that pretty much everybody agrees with me but she tried and she was unable to do it and I tried and I was able to do it. So I'm very proud of that.


LEMON: So, where's that on the truth scale?

PRESTON: False, false, false, false, false, false, false. The fact of the matter is there's no evidence that Hillary Clinton or her campaign tried to discredit Barack Obama on the birther issue. That's absolutely not true.

But what is true is that Donald Trump was one of, if not the leading voice of the birther movement to try to discredit Barack Obama when he was the president and in fact, he rode this in many ways into the republican nomination and now as a republican nominee.

LEMON: OK. I want you to listen to one more subject. This one came up at the debate.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't mention Bill Clinton and his past affairs. You may do this a second debate?

TRUMP: Well, she was very nasty to me, and I was going to do it and I saw Chelsea sitting out in the audience and I just didn't want to go there. I thought it would be too disrespectful. I just didn't want to do it but she was very nasty. We'll see what happens but I didn't want to put it there. It was -- it's a hard thing to say in front of somebody's daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it does come up though in the next debate, do you think maybe your past marital histories also fair game?

TRUMP: I guess. I mean, they can do, but a lot different than his that I can tell you. I mean, we have a situation where we have a president who was a disaster and he was ultimately impeached over it in a sense for lying, and so, we'll see whether or not we discuss it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're not worried about your past history at all?

TRUMP: No, not at all. I have a very good history.


LEMON: Mark?

PRESTON: Well, I mean, on the issue of, did he bring it up on the debate stage or not, he certainly alluded to it on the debate stage and then walked off the debate stage and talked about it pretty openly.

So, in my book, he has brought it up and he has said it. It just so happened Chelsea Clinton wasn't staring at him when he did do it. And Chelsea Clinton herself has actually addressed this in a subsequent interview with a magazine.

But moving on, as first as his only marital history, we do know this that he was married three times and he has had a very high profile extramarital affair, you know that hit in the New York tabs in what have you and really at this point in the campaign, it just shows you that we are going further and further into the gutter as we head into November.

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, "THE MAKING OF DONALD TRUMP" AUTHOR: Well, Don, if I can, he was the one who put the stories about the divorce in the campaign and repeatedly publicly humiliated the mother of his children and planted false stories that various famously beautiful women like Kim Basinger were involved with him or wanted to be involved with him that just weren't true. So, I'm not sure his record is particularly admirable here.

LEMON: I remember him being -- I remember being here in the '90s and having -- his kids having to deal with that. That was part of the story that they were in the tabloids.

PRESTON: But, Don, what's we're saying over quickly, republicans do not want him to go there. LEMON: Don't want him to go there. But also the other thing is that

which we pointed out last night in 2008, he gave an interview with Wolf Blitzer that said Bill Clinton almost got impeached. He said almost got impeached for something that he thought was very unimportant. It was silly when George Bush, the President at that, you know, got away with lying about the Iraq war.

Those are his words and there's a sound bite out there that shows that. So, David, let's talk about this new reporting tonight. This is from David Fahrenthold at the Washington Post, he's reporting that Trump's Foundation never got the necessary certification in New York to order -- in order to solicit money from the public. What's going on here?

[22:10:02] JOHNSTON: Well, New York, like California, the city of Los Angeles, a number of places, has a law that says if you're raising money and they set a threshold, $25,000 in New York. If you solicit money and raise more than $25,000, you have to have a license, you have to have a permit to do it, otherwise scam artists could go door to door raising money.

And Fahrenthold, who has been doing brilliant work on this, pointed and went to the state attorney general and said, well, did they file the necessary paperwork to solicit and they didn't.

LEMON: Yes. OK. So here's what Fahrenthold told Anderson just a moment ago. Listen to this.


DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, WASHINGTON POST POLITICAL REPORTER: If that's the biggest consequence of having not registered, is if he had to register every year he would have an independent auditor that come through the book of the foundation, look at all the checks and specifically ask the question, did Donald Trump's foundation spend money that benefited Donald Trump in a way that it was supposed to.

And we found a few allegations where that seems to have happened over the few years and if they went through these audits they might have found it earlier.


LEMON: David?

JOHNSTON: So, now we're up to nine at least examples of illegal conduct, counting this just as one by the Trump Foundation and what this shows is there's very good reason out there to revoke the charitable status of the Trump Foundation. Self-interested just paying off Donald Trump's legal obligations, buying paintings of him to be hangs in his properties and now soliciting money without authorization from the state.

It also raises a question about if you're such a really terrific businessman, if you're this genius businessman, how come you keep running into illegal conduct? LEMON: So, for -- I heard Jeffrey Toobin on earlier saying that there

are a number of charitable foundations that aren't run properly and they miss licenses. In the scheme of things is this a big deal? Because you say that it should be shut down.

JOHNSTON: Well, it's a big deal under the law and we should be doing more to enforce laws. Congress has a 1 percent law on foundations that is to support enforcement on the law but Congress isn't doing that enforcement. By the way, most foundations and my wife runs a large public foundation are very well run and scrupulous about what they do.

The Clinton Foundation has audits. Trump hasn't done that which is a requirement of raising money, they are on their web site. They even did a forensic audit to see if anything was wrong. That is everything that looked at as if it was a criminal investigation then finding any consequence.

LEMON: Yes. So, what does this say, does this say anything about his taxes in the way he runs his businesses and, you know, does this fold into the tax issue at all?

JOHNSTON: Well, first of all, Trump may owe taxes on some of the gifts that were made to the foundation, if they were actually income to him that was diverted to the foundation that violates an ancient doctrine called the assignment of income doctrine.

LEMON: And the public has a right to know about that?

JOHNSTON: Absolutely. And in addition, as I said on your show before, you know, there are very strong badges of fraud in Trump's 1984 tax return. We know that he participated in sales tax fraud, so it seems to me when you look at all of these things in context, it's very strong evidence that Trump really needs to come clean about his tax returns.

LEMON: Yes. OK. So, Fahrenthold also points to this. He says, "In the most obvious example of the public solicitation, the Trump foundation set up a web site early this year to collect small-dollar donations that it promised to pass along to veterans. In all, the web site did the Trump foundation took in 1.67 million through the site."

I mean, Mark, the fact that this is going through the presidential election that's significant, right?

JOHNSTON: Yes, absolutely. And it's grounds for the New York Attorney General who isn't an elected democrat and who Trump deals is a partisan working against him to invoke his powers and he has substantial powers in the state as the guardian of charitable assets.


JOHNSTON: To examine the books and to revoke the charitable status, effectively revoke it. That the IRS ultimately is the one that would have to revoke it, but you can shut down their operations.

PRESTON: And if you remember, the money that he was raising for veterans occurred back in January during the Iowa caucuses and he held a big event and he skipped a...


LEMON: He skipped the debate.

PRESTON: He skipped a Fox debate because he wasn't happy with it. I went to that rally and she was supposed to raise a lot of money and then they created this web site, and now we stand here now talking just before the election and something like this is dogging him.

LEMON: Forty days.

JOHNSTON: And, Don, he was also turned down by one of the veteran's charities that would not go on stage and get money from him because they were afraid that their charitable status would be revoked.

He has put the status of these charities at risk. I don't think it will happen to him, but it's a matter of law, he ask them to do things that are illegal by participating in partisan political activities.

LEMON: David, Mark, and Jeff, thank you very much. I appreciate it, gentlemen.

When we come right back, why the city of Phoenix wants Donald Trump to pull one of his campaign ads.


LEMON: More of that Howard Stern bombshell tonight. Here to discuss, Hilary Rosen, a Hillary supporter, CNN political commentator, Ana Navarro, and Scottie Nell Hughes, political editor at who is supporting Trump.

Hello, to all of you. Thank you so much for joining us. Hilary Rosen, I'm going to start with you. Howard Stern said that Donald Trump did express support for the Iraq war on is radio show in 2002. Listen to this.


STERN: It always comes up because you know Trump was on our show years ago and said yes, he -- you know, he was kind of for the Iraq war, us going into Iraq.


STERN: He was saying he really wasn't for it, so they were forced to mention my name. Yes. It's cool. Good promotion.


LEMON: So, Hilary, will this make a difference to Trump's supporters?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's all about promotion. No, it won't matter to Trump's supporters and really most people I think have decided that Donald Trump lies, like I think people just own that but for Trump supporters they don't seem to care.

That's what is so confounding I think, particularly to, you know, sort of regular reporters who constantly fact check him, constantly find that he lies and he never backs down, he never admits it when confronted with tapes, with transcripts, with witnesses, it's just ongoing.

So, really I think we're just going to have to accept that and then move on about the kind of president he's going to be. A lying president.

LEMON: Perhaps I should ask a Trump supporter, Scottie, your reaction?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, RIGHTALERT.COM POLITICAL EDITOR: It's interesting to hear a Clinton supporter sit there to talk about Trump lying. I mean, you've got Hillary Clinton, time and time again has lied to the American people saying that she did not think there was any classified e-mails on her server.

[22:20:03] You had her lie about landing on a sniper fire in Bosnia. You had her lie about whether what cause the Benghazi.


ROSEN: Oh, that is a (Inaudible).


LEMON: So, Scottie, to the question is - is this going to make a difference?

HUGHES: What cause the Benghazi, I mean, if you want to talk...


LEMON: My question was will it make a difference to Trump supporters?

HUGHES: Absolutely not because we see the Howard Stern show for what it was. It is a piece of entertainment and four little words and all of a sudden you're saying that that's Mr. Trump was for the Iraq war on an entertainment program. When, by the way, our soldiers were already preparing for war at that point.

And I think Mr. Trump felt that it would be unpatriotic for him to anything at that matter. What difference does it make as in the words of Hillary Clinton to express any sort of anything but support for our soldiers when he went on that show. It was not about politics. That was not why he come to the show.


LEMON: So, it matters where the evidence comes from?

ROSEN: Was it an entertainment or was it -- was it an entertainment or was he supporting the troops? Which one was it? HUGHES: Well, no. It was an entertainment show but it would have done no good. And if you remember that time period, which I do, our troops were already preparing for war even though Congress had no necessarily voted for it they already knew they were going. And there already families that were being split up.

It would have looked very unpatriotic for him to do anything but express -- but you know what? If you listened to the answer it was very lukewarm, it was very much, well, because he did not want to sit there and tell these soldiers that left their family, I don't support you, that's not how we do it in America.

LEMON: Well, why isn't he saying that?


ROSEN: So you're saying he supported it but he didn't mean it.

LEMON: Yes, why isn't he saying that, Scottie?

HUGHES: He supported our troops he did not support the war. There's a big difference.


LEMON: Scottie, why isn't he saying that? You're saying that. He's never said that.

HUGHES: Well, that's how it was from the very beginning and that's what I was always told the reason why he was very lukewarm in the answer.

LEMON: OK. Ana, I want to move on, unless you want to discuss this. So you want to move on, Ana or you want to talk about it?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, sweetheart, all I can tell you is I think both of these candidates could benefit from a big dose of truth serum in their morning coffee and I think that it doesn't matter to either candidates' supporters whether they're telling the truth or not.

You're not a Donald Trump supporter if you are bothered by shifting positions. Today, for the first time in its history, the USA Today editorial board came out with an editorial where they chose a side. They usually don't choose a side. They told their readers whatever you do, go out and vote, but just don't vote for Donald Trump.

And one of the reasons they gave is how erratic he is, how much he's course ended the discourse and how much he's shifted positions. Sometimes he shifts positions more than once in one day. So, that's not something that I think bothers Trump supporters because they think, well, both of them are liars, I'll choose the republican liar.

LEMON: Well, Ana, let's talk about this. Because according to the Arizona republic, the city of Phoenix has sent the Trump campaign a cease and desist letter to the campaign about this ad. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a movement, not a campaign. Its leader, Donald Trump, builder, businessman, success. Doing what others called impossible. Donald Trump's priority, you dreaming big, building bigger, united for family, jobs, country, defined by freedom.

Standing together, pushing ahead, leaving the past behind. Changing our future. Together, we'll make America great again.

TRUMP: I'm Donald Trump and I approved this message.


LEMON: So, here's the problem with that ad for the city. The city is upset that the ad features on-duty Phoenix police officers. Ana, what's your reaction?

NAVARRO: Oh, Don, Don, Don, do you think breaking the law, breaking regulations matters in Trump land? I mean, today, we found out the guy violated the Cuban embargo. He -- the Cuban embargo, which is illegal to violate. This is not just about policy, whether you agree with it or not. We found that out today, so does it matter? No, it doesn't.

He gets measured by a different stick. He doesn't comply with these things and he's now being investigated on foundation issues. He's being -- you know, now we've got the Cuban embargo issue out. This really doesn't play into what his supporters think or believe. I'd say the same thing about Hillary Clinton by the way.

LEMON: Yes. Here's the thing though. I mean, just in the last couple of days, even since the debate, there have been so many stories that have come out. Just this one story quickly that I want to cover before we get to break here.

I want to talk about this controversy with Alicia Machado. It has gone on now since Monday's debate. He went on Fox the next day. He called her overweight and again, he's talking about it seemingly ever since. Hilary, why is he doing this? It does not seem to be helping him. I know he would probably like to change the conversation.

ROSEN: It doesn't -- it boggles my mind. I don't understand why he talks about -- you know, why he does fat-shaming of this woman or any women and I don't know why he consistently does it and can't seem to let it go. It defends himself rather than apologizes.

It's the same thing for when he sort of threatens and dog whistles to bring up Bill Clinton's affairs when he's on his third marriage.

[22:24:59] I mean, none of this is good for him. You know, frankly, the Clinton team don't care -- doesn't care if he just keeps talking about this because it just cements women's view that this is not a guy on their side. And so.

LEMON: OK. ROSEN: I think that Hillary Clinton was out there all day talking about student debt and college affordability. That's what the American people care about. And if Donald Trump were smart he would shift his campaign back to talking about issues.

LEMON: OK. I'm going to let you respond, Scottie.

NAVARRO: Don, Don.

LEMON: Ana, I'm going to let you respond. Ana, I'm going to let you respond. I'm going to let you respond. I promise after the break because I know you -- this is important to you, Ana, and Scottie, I know you want to respond to this. And we're also going to talk about this New Yorker cover, coming up. Don't go anywhere.


LEMON: All right. Back now with my panel. Scottie, you wanted to respond. I think, but you said that you think that this reporting on Alicia Machado is wearing thin?

HUGHES: Absolutely. The only reason why we're talking about it is Hillary Clinton keeps bringing it up and their hinge man within the media. Here's why I think you see a lot of these papers right now are saying that they want to vote, to have people vote for Hillary because Donald Trump is calling them out on it.

LEMON: So you think Fox News is their hinge men for Hillary Clinton because he talked about it on Fox and Friends and that's where his initial responses.


[22:30:04] HUGHES: That was a few days ago. But that was a few days ago. But as the Washington, you know, we're finding out now that she -- a lot of these comments that Miss Universe had actually happened before the -- before she was actually crowned Miss Universe, like anorexia, like bulimia.

She complained of those to the Washington -- I think at the Washington Post prior to even being elected to that. So, a lot of the -- I told you a couple days ago this cookie was going to start crumbling, and so if anything other news outlets are pointing out, definitely the holes and the bubbles and the motivations behind her coming out.



ROSEN: Now you're trashing -- now you're -- now you're trashing her body.

HUGHES: No, she is trashing herself. She is the one who said don't facts matter.

ROSE: No, now you're doing it, Scottie. HUGHES: She actually said it on herself a number of times.

ROSEN: Shame on you.

HUGHES: No, shame on you, Hilary Rosen.

ROSEN: Stop talking about it this way.

HUGHES: For perpetuating this lie about her. No, you're the one that brought it up because you don't have the policy.


HUGHES: Hillary Clinton want this to happen because she doesn't actualy have a reason...


HUGHES: Actually I didn't bring it up.

HUGHES: No, you did. She doesn't have a reason to pay for her free college tour that she did today expect for taxing the upper income.

LEMON: OK. All right. Ana, I want you to get in there because I know that this is very persona to you.

NAVARRO: Thank God.

LEMON: Ana and I are friends and I know that the way things is very personal to you. We discussed it all the time. You are -- how do you feel about this?

NAVARRO: Well, look. I think why does Donald Trump keep doing this? I know, he could have put a stop to it in the next day after the debate, he would have said, you know, back then, I was the owner of the Miss Universe pageant, back then I was an entertainer, now I'm a presidential candidate and I realize it's something I shouldn't have done.

Instead, what he showed is he's got no self-strength. If this man got prick he's got to hit back even if he's punching down to a beauty queen of 20 years ago. He has no self-restraint. He's got no common sense, and obviously he's got no mirror. I mean, how could people like...


LEMON: "I've struggled with weight issues all my life."

NAVARRO: How could people like Newt Gingrich, how could people like Donald Trump be out there trashing a woman because she gained weight?


NAVARRO: How little self-awareness do you need to have?

LEMON: Ana, your tweet is up.


NAVARRO: Look, it's not about me.

LEMON: Your tweet is up. But I want -- I want to use it.

NAVARRO: But it's not -- it's not...

LEMON: "I struggle with my weight issues all my life."


NAVARRO: OK. OK, But -- yes.

LEMON: "And I agree. A man who shames and bullies a woman for weight isn't fit to be a man." Those are strong words, Ana.

NAVARRO: But listen, he's not.



LEMON: Let her finish. Let her finish, Scottie. Scottie, let her finish. Go ahead.

NAVARRO: OK. Listen, Scottie, I went through the entire thing of you guys shaming each other and all of that. I'm not interrupting you so let me just say my peace. I think that, you know, you have to realize that there's a lot of people in America that unfortunately, we struggle with our weight.

Some of us it's because of genetics, some of us, it's because whatever reason. And to fat-shame people is not about me, Don, I've struggled with my weight my entire life but it's not about me. I'm 44 years old. You can tell me anything you want. It rolls off my back like a duck.

But it's about all the little girls and even little boys who are watching programs, who are listening to this campaign who have body issues, who feel self-conscious, who are bullied because of their weight. And for him to contribute to that discourse, it's part of the reason why he's not getting things like the editorial endorsement of the USA Today because he has poisoned the discourse, because he has lowered the level of the debate, and because he continues to be so offensive to so many groups.

Good luck trying to go against fat people in America, Donald Trump.

LEMON: I want to get your -- Ana, thank you for that. I want to get this -- put the cover up. This is New Yorker magazine. It has Donald Trump as Ms. Congeniality. I mean, is this story going away? Hilary?

ROSEN: I hope so. I mean, look, listen, here's some facts, which is -- you know, women actually care about issues and from my perspective, the fact that Donald Trump wants to name Supreme Court justices that will repeal Rowe v. Wade that he wants to repeal the health care bill that equalizes access to healthcare, that he and his allies want to defund Planned Parenthood. Those to me are much better issues to talk about for women than you know their body weight.

LEMON: Some other...


HUGHES: Absolutely.

ROSEN: And it would be a much better conversation. And so, but...

LEMON: Scottie, hold on because I'm going to let you to respond to this. Some other issues they want to talk about, meaning the Donald Trump campaign, and Kellyanne Conway addressed it on the View today. Bill Clinton's infidelities. Listen.


KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I'm not advising him to go there. It's fair game to think about how Hillary Clinton treated those women after the fact. She called Monica Lewinsky a lunatic...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how he treats women all the time.

CONWAY: Hold on, but that's what we talk a lot all the time. He does call me constantly. To answer your question, it's really what the treatment. What I can tell you the thing about Donald Trump that I hope you would all give credence to is he is surrounded by strong women. He's employed thousands and thousands of women over the years.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me and you something about Hillary.

CONWAY: And they get promoted. I'm the first -- I'm the first campaign manager for the republican campaign manager.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wouldn't you turn -- wouldn't you turn on that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But did you reprimand him for that? And say to him, listen, why are saying women are fat, why are you calling women fat pigs? Did you say that to him?

[22:35:03] CONWAY: Yes. I think it's beside the point.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what did he say?

CONWAY: But hold on. That he give that particular woman a second chance. The company involved wanted her terminated.


CONWAY: Hold on.


CONWAY: No, that is just the truth. Hold on. I want everybody to know this. Because she was i breach of contract and the company wanted her terminated. He gave her a second chance. The choices were, give her a second chance or terminate her and her did that.


LEMON: So, Scottie, two things there. Kellyanne Conway is talking about it, you say that people aren't discussing it. She's the campaign manager and the other thing is why -- why does Donald Trump surrogates supporters, why do they want Donald Trump to get credit for doing what every employer has to do legally, which is to hire women, if they didn't, they would get sued or they would be out of business. So, answer those two things for me.

HUGHES: Well, because in this case with Ms. Machado, she did, she came to Donald Trump and said can you please help me, can you get me a nutritionist, can you help me work out? They came up with this plan together. So, for her to go out and say, you know, Donald Trump put me through all of this, she was the one that asked for his help when she knew her crown when she broke her contract of a job that she was hired to do.

Now bringing up Bill Clinton's infidelities...


NAVARRO: How do you know that, Scottie?

HUGHES: It is facts. Go read the facts. These were actually the facts that were reported. Even CNN talked about this article back then.

ROSEN: That's actually not reported.

HUGHES: So, I mean, this was -- yes it is actually been reported. But that, you know, that's not convenient for Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: I don't recall -- I don't recall that reporting, but go ahead.

HUGHES: Well, we can look at it.

NAVARRO: I haven't seen any reporting on that and I can't imagine it being other than a conversation, a hearsay conversation from Donald Trump.

HUGHES: Well, just go read some of the story.

LEMON: I have to go -- I have to go, Scottie, but the other part of my question was does he get...


ROSEN: But the fair game issue.

LEMON: ... does he get -- does he get extra credit for doing what every employer in the world does or in this country at least for hiring women? Women work everywhere.

HUGHES: Well, don't -- maybe not even -- not extra credit but more importantly, why are we continuing to demonize him as being a sexist woman hater when he promotes men and women based on actually the job that they do.

LEMON: He has to promote men and women. He's in business.

HUGHES: He doesn't have...


LEMON: Yes, he does.

HUGHES: Exactly, he has to promote them. They're good then continue to advance. When they are bad they get terminated or fired. And so, I mean, he does that to men and women he holds them all to the same standard.


LEMON: They're only too sexist and two types of human being.

ROSEN: He's not a sexist woman hater.

HUGHES: He's not one.

LEMON: And they have to work in a workplace somewhere, so I mean, it's not like he's hiring other, you know, genders. He has to hire men and women, that's what everybody does.

HUGHES: And he promotes and he treats them exactly the same exactly way. That's what the real...


ROSEN: It's not about -- it's not about hating women. It's about objectifying women.

NAVARRO: Calling a woman a fat pig.

HUGHES: But he didn't do that. That is not confirmed. That is a talking point from the Hillary Clinton campaign.

NAVARRO: He had not called Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig?



NAVARRO: He did not call Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig.

HUGHES: And what did she call him?

LEMON: And to be continued.

NAVARRO: Rosie O'Donnell is not a woman?

LEMON: Thank you.

NAVARRO: Rosie O'Donnell is a mother. She's a philanthropist...

LEMON: We'll be right back.


LEMON: Donald Trump still hasn't apologized for calling a former Miss Universe Miss piggy and Miss Housekeeping allegedly. But she is not the only one. Jodie Seal, representative of Australia in 1996 in the Miss Universe pageant. And she has a story to tell. Jodie joins now. Jodie, thank you so much. I hope you're being down near Baton Rouge, my hometown.


LEMON: So, you were Ms. Australia in 1996, in the Miss Universe pageant with Alicia Machado.

SEAL: Yes, many moons ago.

LEMON: You say you were fat-shamed by Donald Trump some.

SEAL: Yes, that's true. Yes. I mean, it was like I said many moons ago it happened but the memories are really, really raw, really quite fresh and everything that's going on today brings it all back.

He told me to stick my gut in, quite often he'd be walking through wherever we were kind of eating or where we were performing and just kind of casting his eyes over the ones that were a little bit plumper and kind of favoring the girls that were a little less.

So, very much he enforced exercise in his hot little tent in Las Vegas. We all had leg weights on. I mean, we were meant to be representing our countries as the most beautiful women in the world and we're made to feel like fats just quite worthless all the time. So, it's quite disappointing.


LEMON: He said it to you and other women? Do you hear him?

SEAL: Other women, that's correct, yes.

LEMON: You did?

SEAL: Yes. LEMON: And so, how do you say that -- if someone were to say to you

this is part of pageant culture, but you I'm sure were involved in a number of pageants. Were you ever treated that way in any other pageant by...

SEAL: I wasn't. I mean, I was just a small town girl from Australia. I'm sure other girls may have been treated like that in their pageantry. For me, I just went into it for a laugh to experience the world. Donald Trump was the first American man I'd ever met so let's just put it that way, quite a shock.

And it was -- you know, I know what people saying, you go into a pageant, you expect to be treated a certain way, but we were 19 years old. If you think of it this way, we had chaperones. We weren't allowed to leave our room without an adult chaperone, yet, we were forced to wear swimsuits, which is part of the pageant, but not everyday life.

You know, we had to wear it to restaurants. We had to wear it -- you know, he wanted us to be sexy all the time and for an older man of influence, who was running the show for his first year to kind of come up to you and say stick your stick you tummy and stick your gut in, rather than take you aside or get one of your minders to say it to you in a nice quiet voice, I think that very -- it's very condescending and it makes a huge impact on a girl who is quite that young. Yes.

LEMON: Thank you for explaining that. You describe him as being very controlling like Mussolini. Why do you say that?

SEAL: He was. I guess for me it was his first year there, I've got a good friend who was Ms. Australia the year before and she experienced nothing like that in her Miss Universe experience. It was all very kind of -- you know, people were made to feel beautiful and appreciated, where it's kind of Donald would come in and assert his authority and say, you know, you in the front row, yes, that's sexy, you're -- you know, kind of favoring the girls that were a lot thinner, a lot sexier, and playing favorites quite a lot. And make other girls...


LEMON: Did you ever think that he would be running for or -- do you think that he would ever be running or could be the candidate that might be the next president of United States?

[22:45:05] No, Lord, no. Oh, my gosh. No, not at all. Not in a million years.

LEMON: Yes. Well, Jodie Seal, we thank you so much for joining us and taking the time out of your -- I'm sure you're very busy here.

SEAL: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Thank you so much.

SEAL: I do, Yes. Thank you so much, Don. Nice to meet you. LEMON: You, as well.

SEAL: Thank you.

LEMON: When we come right back. He is never Trump and he is never Hillary. I don't have to read it to you because you know, guess who is coming up, Glenn Beck. You don't want to miss that.


LEMON: Just 40 days to go until Election Day. One top democrat says the GOP has created a Frankenstein monster or Frankenstein however you want to say it. I want to see if my next guest agrees with that, and that is Glenn Beck. He is the founder of The Blaze and the author of "Liars." Hello, Mr. Beck. How are you doing? There's the book.


LEMON: What is going on? What is going on here? Have you ever seen anything like this? We've got 40 days to go. What is going on?

BECK: It -- I -- you know, it's alive, it's alive, it's alive! It's a monster and it's -- I think it's a monster on both sides and I'm hoping -- I can't predict the American people at all.

[22:55:03] But I'm hoping that there's a lot of people on both sides that feel like really, this is the best we could do, these guys, really?

LEMON: Yes. Well, let's talk about these guys, all right? And let's start with Donald Trump and then, you know, Hillary Clinton was part of the debate, as well. Donald Trump thinks that he won that first debate. His advisors disagree with him. Can he come back do you think for round two and take it?

BECK: You know, it's so funny because I was watching the debate on CNN and everybody was saying I can't believe that -- I mean, what a debacle that was. I turned it over to Fox, and they have the exact opposite opinion. So, I don't know.

I tried to watch it as a millennial that kind of understands socialism, and is kind of a Bernie person and disconnected from Hillary, and I don't see the connection with -- I don't see anybody -- if I was watching I don't see them going, do you know what, I have to give her a second look.

However, they certainly are not looking at Donald Trump. When you look at Donald Trump, I also tried to watch it as you know, a guy who is just, you know, a hardworking guy who has been out trying to earn a living, jobs, tough, he sees his country burning down, and is like all these politicians.

I've not heard anybody say -- and I think this is a Roger Ailes effect. You'll notice Donald Trump never talked about democrat or republicans. All he said was politicians. And while I disagree with almost everything he said, I could say all that he said, he was very careful to never bash the democrats or the republicans. He bashed them both.

He's making a news for both parties by saying, you know, you politicians are all alike. Taking himself out of that, taking himself out of a guy who knows how to manipulate the media and say, look how bad the media is, he's saying look how bad the politicians, he's positioning himself if people aren't careful of rising above all of it and squashing both of it.


BECK: If -- if I'm a guy on the bar school and I've been worried about my job, he might have connected with me. And that's not a good thing i my name.


LEMON: OK. So, if he wins, what happens to the Republican Party if he wins?

BECK: I think -- I think, you know, he doesn't have to win. You know, Harry Reid, when he said they're building a Frankenstein monster, this is who they are, no this was built by parties and politicians and Washington's -- Washington and the media everywhere. Not listening to people.

You know, that's the problem we have. We've been talking about Black Lives Matter between the two of us and I said, you know, we have to listen to each other.

LEMON: Right.

BECK: We have to hear the other side. You can't put together a marriage if you are having a problem in your marriage, you're not going to just say hey, get over that, it's in the past. You say, honey, let me listen to you. Tell me what your feeling is.


LEMON: I use that same analogy, Glenn.

BECK: And until the other party feels -- yes.

LEMON: You just don't tell your spouse -- at a problem for you, not for me, yes.

BECK: Yes. And I have to feel like you've heard me. Then we might be able to put it in the past. Politicians have not recognized that they have heard what they've done is used and betrayed the people who were crying out to them on both sides of the aisle, and that's why this so dangerous.


LEMON: OK. So, let's talk about Black Lives Matter, Glenn, since you wanted to discuss it. Because I want to ask about Bill Clinton and all that. BECK: No.

LEMON: Let's talk about Black Lives Matter.

BECK: No, go ahead. I'm cool with anything.


BECK: Al right.

LEMON: If we have time, we'll get that in.

BECK: Cool.

LEMON: So, before we do that, listen, this is his 'birther' answer at the debate. And tell me what you think he should have said. Play this.


LESTER HOLT, DEBATE MODERATOR: We're talking about racial healing in segment. What do you say to Americans of color...


TRUMP: Well, I was very -- I say nothing. I say nothing because I was able to get him to produced that he should have produced at a long time before. I say nothing. But let me just tell you.

When you talk about healing I think I've developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the African-American community. I think you can see that. And I feel that they really wanted me to come to that conclusion and I think I did a great job and a great service, not only for the country but even for the president.


LEMON: So, he ask him about racial healing and then he went on with the 'birther' thing saying that he did a good thing. What should he have said do you think?

BECK: About racial healing?


LEMON: You see the question is...

BECK: From Donald Trump? I don't even know where to begin. If I were Donald Trump, I would say, everybody keeps saying, we have to have a conversation.

[22:55:04] Well, that's never followed up with actually having a conversation and I don't think the politicians should be involved in that. We do need to talk to one another and we have to break down the barriers of screaming at each other or demonizing each other. We just have to talk and more importantly, we need to listen to each other. LEMON: But Glenn, it sounds like he doesn't think there's problem

because when asked, he says I say nothing. I got him to produce his birth certificate, end of story. It sounds like he doesn't really -- that he's tone deaf to the issue.

BECK: Don, I -- Don, I don't -- I mean -- I mean, people who have listened to me and trusted me for a long time, a lot of them are very upset at me right now and that's OK. I have a different opinion than a lot of people who are just playing teams and don't get me wrong, Hillary Clinton I think is absolutely thoroughly corrupt, but in another way, so is this guy.

And I don't know which one is worse. I really don't. I think Donald Trump is so self-centered, so vindictive, doesn't let things go and quite honestly, he has said himself he doesn't read. He is so under educated on the issues. He's a danger to the republic.

I watch this trying to think of a millennial, trying to think of a guy who is about to lose his job and trying to watch it as somebody who is a prime minister in another country. And I have to tell you, if I were anywhere else in the world I would be terrified of what the United States might turn into.

LEMON: I got to Glenn Beck. Thank you. Thanks for staying up late. Come on anytime. I appreciate it.

BECK: Thank you, Don. I appreciate it.

LEMON: Thank you. When we come right back, Donald Trump suggesting he might raise questions about Bill Clinton's past in the next debate, but Trump's past is a stuff of tabloid headlines. We're going to have the story, coming up.