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Trump Defends Tax Strategy After Documents Leaked; Kim Kardashian Robbed in Paris; CNN Correspondents on the Campaign Trail. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 3, 2016 - 14:00   ET




HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: -- the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It sets up a dispute resolution system that favors large corporations over everyone else. It' s one of the I am against it. I've warned about this for years. I have written about it and I oppose TPP now. I will oppose it after the election. I will oppose it as president because it is one-sided and I am fair to American workers.


CLINTON: And what about all those pharmaceutical companies that jack up prices for no reason?

We're going to have to protect ourselves against that, too. And when we find unjustified spikes in the prices along standing life-saving drugs, we should slap penalties on companies trying to cheat people who need those drugs.


CLINTON: And let's finally import safe alternatives from other countries like Canada and speed up approvals to get more generic drugs on the market.


CLINTON: And it is long past time to allow Medicare to negotiate better prices for drugs and get the cost down for Medicare recipients.


CLINTON: And I believe we should cap the amount working families pay out of pocket every month for medicine. No one should ever have to choose between paying the rent and filling their prescriptions.


CLINTON: So let's stand up for taxpayers. Let's stand up for consumers and let's stand up for small businesses, which create most of the jobs in America. (APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: I take this personally because of my dad's very small business. We need fair rules of the road so big corporations can't use their power to gain unfair advantages. And when it comes to bullying small businesses, Donald Trump is the poster boy. I have heard so many stories of contractors -- and I've met some, too -- who worked for him, produced the goods and services and never got paid for what they were owed.

I'm talking about painters and plumbers, piano sellers, architects, glass installers, he stiffed them all not because he couldn't pay them but he wouldn't pay them. And he told them, you want to get your money, sue me.

My dad could never have done that. I am just grateful my dad never got a contract with Donald Trump because I do not know what we would have done.


CLINTON: You know, more than 60 percent of businesses face payment delays. That can cause a serious cash flow crisis. So as president, I will explore new ways to arm small businesses with the tools to fight back and level the playing field.

Part of the problem is large corporations are amassing so much power in our economy. Sometimes it is called market concentration or even old-fashioned monopolies. But either way, it threatens businesses of all sizes as well as consumers.

With less competition, corporations can use their power to raise prices, limit choice for consumers, cut wages for workers, crowd out startups and small businesses. Look what is happening right now in most of the country.

The three largest health insurance companies in each state control 80 percent of the market. No wonder premiums are going up. As president, I will appoint top independent authorities to strengthen antitrust enforcement and really scrutinize mergers and acquisitions so the big don't keep getting bigger and bigger.


CLINTON: I want every business, I want every business to compete and thrive and then I also want to do something else. Let us protect and empower workers who actually drive our economy.

Everyone who works hard should be able to share in the rewards, not just senior executives. So we're proposing new tax credits to encourage more companies to share profits on top of, not instead of higher wages.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You have been listening to Hillary Clinton there, speaking in Toledo, Ohio, blasting Donald Trump on his taxes. If you have not seen this "New York Times" report, it's a huge, huge deal. This is the -- there were reporting from over the weekend, that essentially, the billionaire filed a business loss of $915,729,293.


BALDWIN: This is back in 1995. And that possibly, possibly allowed Trump to legally avoid paying federal income taxes for 18 years.

Now to be clear, CNN has not independently verified these documents, which "The New York Times" reports showed up in one of the reporters' mailboxes, snail mail. But Trump's campaign has not challenged any of the details and lauds Trump's business acumen.

So let's go straight to the ground there in Ohio. Our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is live there in Akron, where Secretary Clinton will be speaking a little later on today.

First, let us just go back to Hillary Clinton responding to this report from "The Times" on Trump's taxes.

What was the biggest line for you, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SR. WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, you could really hear Secretary Clinton really devoting a big part of her speech today in Ohio to this, to trying to make the case to some working-class voters and others who are finding a lot of what they like in Donald Trump, really trying to explain this and break this down in terms of what it might mean for them if he was president, trying to make the case that he is not out for the little guy.

He is not out to look after you. He is out for himself here. Now, of course, this is one of her challenges here in Ohio. She is already behind Donald Trump significantly and has not been back to Ohio for about a month.

But, Brooke, what a month, what a day for her to come back to, to have this message to talk about here. Let us take a listen to one piece of her speech where she talked about his casino businesses and how he could have lost all that money.


CLINTON: How anybody can lose a dollar, let alone $1 billion in the casino industry is kind of beyond me.


It's just hard to figure. But as a result, doesn't look like he paid a dime of federal income tax for almost two decades. Now while millions of American families -- including mine and yours -- were working hard, paying our fair share, it seems he was contributing nothing to our nation.

Imagine that. Not fair. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: And, Brooke, that is really interesting. At the end of that, talking about how you not only the fact that he was saving money by not paying federal taxes, if true, over those years but the fact that he wasn't contributing money to the military, to other programs here.

So that is what advisors of the Clinton campaign believe is going to resonate here, that he wasn't contributing. He was not doing his fair share here. Now we have not yet heard Donald Trump respond to this. He was speaking earlier today -- did not respond to this.

But, boy, Brooke, he is definitely going to have to; the campaign knows it will. She is also up on television with an advertisement about all of this. This is going to continue for some time, I believe, leading up into their first -- their second debate, rather, next Sunday in St. Louis.

BALDWIN: Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

In Ohio, as allegations are swirling either, he may have avoided paying these federal income taxes for nearly two decades, critics are also noting a batch of Trump tweets from the past in which he rips people for how much they pay in taxes, could call it tax shaming.

So quoting one, this is back from 2012, he tweeted, "Barack Obama, who wants to raise all our taxes, only pays 20.5 percent on $790,000 salary."

Let's have a bigger discussion. I have A.B. Stoddard standing by. She is the associate editor and columnist for RealClearPolitics; CNN's senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson; and CNNMoney correspondent Cristina Alesci.

So ladies, great to have all of you on here.

And, Nia, let me begin with you. Jeff Zeleny just sort of ticked through how, you know, Hillary Clinton was responding; he is not paying his fair share. He is not -- you know, the reason why we pay taxes is for military and schools.

What do you make of that spin on it?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it really is a continuation of a line of argument that she began in the first debate. It was effective then and it is much more effective now that they really have a smoking gun from this "New York Times" report that came out this weekend.

And as Jeff said, you are going to see this in ads. I think what was so interesting about it is she is able to ground of a tax story with regular people, right. On the other hand she has argument, listen, all of these middle-class folks have paid their fair share and Donald Trump is -- hasn't, apparently, at least according to this story.

Another argument that I think is so powerful here is that it gets at his business record, right, this idea that, here he is, framing himself as this a very successful business person that is worth $10 billion.

But listen, he lost almost $1 billion in the '90s. I think --


HENDERSON: -- that starts to chip away, I think, in the minds of some voters, particularly swing voters, whether or not he is as good as he says he is.

And that third argument being, look at all of the people that Donald Trump hasn't paid, right. And she talks about her own father being a working-class guy and glad that her own father didn't work for Donald Trump.

So I think she has got a number of different arguments here. They're (INAUDIBLE) in some ways paint Donald Trump in the way they were able to paint Mitt Romney in 2012 and they got this smoking gun of this "New York Times" and these tax documents to back up their argument.

BALDWIN: You know, we will wait to hear Trump's response to Hillary's response to Trump, if you are all with me, right, the political ping- pong. But we do know that. AB, from reading "The New York Times" piece over the weekend, that Trump campaign's response is essentially they did not challenge, they didn't confirm that the $960 million in loss.

But they are not really putting out surrogates today, other than, you know, coming forward and saying that that this is genius.

How should they be responding, AB?

A.B. STODDARD, "REAL CLEAR POLITICS": Right, well, if you've seen the Trump Foundation stories, the investigation "The New York Times" did --


BALDWIN: We're getting, we're getting there.

STODDARD: -- about women and his treatment of women. What Donald Trump always does when there is a big investigative piece about him, "The Washington Post," "The New York Times," whatever, is to bash the reporter, say it was dishonest but never actually argue any of the facts or tonight, any of the allegations are ever asked for a correction.

So he never actually goes at the facts and disputes them. He just says this was terrible. If he doesn't like it, he calls it dishonest.

So what they did yesterday was sort of a knee-jerk reaction where they wanted to say to maybe they didn't obtain the documents legally and they're fraudulent but then they sent out to surrogates, top surrogates, to say he's a genius and stress many times that it was done legally. Look, I do not think they really know how to respond because I thought that Trump was going to say something today and he took a pass. They're probably biding their time in trying to figure out a better response.

But I think it will be more along the lines that he -- that he tweeted, I am -- I am a great businessman. I know how to work the system better than anyone. And I am the only one who can fix it.

BALDWIN: On the -- how the average voter, you know, is taking this in, Cristina. This is my question to you. Listen, most people cannot even begin to wrap their head around nine figures, let alone losing nine figures, you know, in a year.

And, yes, you know, he did not do anything illegal, from what I understand, but I want you to explain to me how this kind of loss would mean Trump would not have to pay taxes for at least 15 years.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a very simple answer and then there's a complicated answer. The simple answer is that, frankly, the tax code favors the wealthy, particularly real estate developers. If you want to go into it further, we're talking about with Trump a specific section of the tax code that it -- that deals with net operating losses.

What is that?

When you have a business that has more expenses than profits, the government allows you to take those losses and offset your future income with those losses. And the government does this because they want to encourage people, especially businessmen who are smart, to take risks with their own money.

So there is a very good reason the government does this. But now tax experts are saying, look, do real estate developers have too much leeway in what they can call a loss?

How big is the advantage for them and does it really square with the idea that the tax policy should be fair?

Because most people look at this and say, hey, I can't take unlimited losses. There's a cap -- you know, if I invest in a stock or a bond, I can't take unlimited losses on my overall gross income.

Why should these investors be able to?

There are arguments to be made on both sides. But clearly this has got average people scratching their heads for sure.

BALDWIN: You know, exactly, and I think also Trump, Leslie pointed out a second ago, Nia, he likes to call out in the past, folks not paying maybe their fair share of taxes. We mentioned the Obama example. Then he pointed out, only paying 20 percent. Now he's taken on Jeff Bezos. He's taken on Romney.

How is this not a tale of do as I say, not as I do?

HENDERSON: It is -- that's what it is. And we've seen those shifts in positions, I think, from Donald Trump in the past. Even I think at this point he criticized Mitt Romney back in the day for not releasing his taxes. We see now that it does not seem like he is going to release his taxes.

At this point, what was so clear from that speech today with Hillary Clinton was how much she was enjoying herself, right. She is happy to make this case, happy to prosecute Donald Trump on this issue. She has been waiting to do it for many, many months now.

And there she is, when this races is tightening or at least it was for a while, she really, I think, has some wind at her back and we'll have to see how this plays out in the debate tomorrow with these other candidates, Kaine and Pence --


HENDERSON: -- what do they do?

How does Pence respond, who of course, did release his taxes. It's a real head scratcher, how they are able to deal with this, the Trump campaign by saying, oh, he's a genius.

And if you look at some of the papers in some of these swing state newspapers, they have framed it on the front pages, him saying, oh, well, he is a genius. But listen, whether or not that flies, we'll have to see with these swing voters.


BALDWIN: Thank you for bringing up Kaine and Pence, by the way, because no one's talking about them. And we will be in Farmville, Virginia, tomorrow for this vice presidential debate that no one seems to be really talking about.

A.B., just quickly, just quickly though, you know, does this pressure to release Trump's tax returns, do you think it makes any bit of a difference for the voter out there, still in a quandary?

STODDARD: No. I think undecided voters do not like either Trump or Clinton. I think that if you're with you're with Trump, you're with Trump. The tax thing does not change that. I think what really is going to be important is the swing vote. The swing vote, in my opinion, this election is people who are not voting for Trump and do not like Hillary.

If she gets them off the couch and they vote for her, she wins. It's the temperament issues. It's tweeting about sex tapes at 3:00 in the morning, making fun of her nearly collapsing in the street, saying she wasn't loyal to her husband. It is the temperament issue.

And if they are so afraid of his temperament that they overcome not liking Clinton and vote for her, she can win. Otherwise, if they stay home, I think Trump will win. BALDWIN: Temperament, not taxes.

A.B., Nia, Cristina, thank you all so much. I appreciate it.

Coming up next here, more breaking news on CNN.


BALDWIN: Including what we are hearing now from the AG in New York with regard to The Clinton Foundation, the cease and desist, how this affects Trump.

Might he have to pay back the millions that were given to him and his foundation?

We'll explore that coming up.





BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We are all of 36 days from Election Day and there are additional negative headlines for Donald Trump today. We have also just learned that New York attorney general Eric Schneiderman is going after the Trump Foundation. Office just sent a notice of violation that indicates Donald Trump's charity, quote, "must immediately cease soliciting contributions or engaging in any other fundraising activities in New York."

So let me bring in Drew Griffin, our CNN senior investigative correspondent, on this, who's been looking into the foundation and David Farenthold, who has been on this from the get, really, the forefront of this one, from "The Washington Post." We've been talking about this before on TV.

So, David, welcome back.

But, Drew, first to you, talk about the cease and desist and what specifically does this mean for Trump and the foundation?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SR. INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what it means is that Trump has to get in line with New York state laws. Apparently his organization was not registered with the charities bureau, has not lived up to the registration of the New York State Charities Bureau, which means you have the file annual financial reports, audited financial statements.

And because of that, I think while the attorney general's office continues to look into the Trump Foundation, it has told him, look, if you are doing any fundraising in the state of New York, we want you to stop until you are fully registered, as all other charity organizations in New York are.

It is basically trying to get them to file the proper paperwork or they need to just stop getting donations from New York State.

BALDWIN: Would it also, just quickly, Drew, potentially mean that then they would have to pay back the millions in donations they accepted?

GRIFFIN: That is unclear. What is also unclear is the millions, you know, this is a very, very small foundation. They do have a couple of big donors in the state of New York, one ticket broker who gives about $500,000 a year.

But I do not see anything in the notice of violation sent to Trump's attorney, specifying that they have to give back any money. They do need to notify any third-party groups or any professional fundraisers to stop raising money.

But I do not think that this foundation, which, again, is so small, does anything like that.


David, first, now to you, just your reaction to this news from the AG in New York and then also, because you have been so in the weeds on this, what are still some of your biggest unanswered questions into the Trump Foundation?

DAVID FARENTHOLD, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, the reaction is that this is actually sort of the attorney general of New York is looking at a huge number of things involving the Trump Foundation but this was sort of one of the more clear-cut. There is an ironclad requirement that, if you solicit more than $25,000 from the public in New York every year, you have to get this sort of registration.

And this year Trump actually set up a public website to gather donations from people all around the country to raise more than $1 million. So he clearly, it seems, was in violation of the New York law. This was an easy case to make for the attorney general.

As Drew said, it's just the beginning of the investigation, probably rather than the end. The unanswered questions I have, the main one has to do with how money came into the Trump Foundation.

Drew mentioned this ticket broker in New York City. We have heard -- we have been told that this ticket broker donates to New York -- to the Trump Foundation because he owes money to Trump for business deals and Trump says, don't pay me; pay my foundation.

You can do that but Trump has to pay income tax on that money and the question is whether he did. They haven't answered that so far.

Also, you look at the AG: you look at Eric Schneiderman, this is something you hear from the Trump campaign. You know, they often point out that he is a Democrat. He is an open Hillary Clinton supporter. Why -- wouldn't he risk his own credibility by doing this four weeks from the election?

Why not wait so there is not a single bit of appearance of playing politics here?

FARENTHOLD: Well, in this case, I think he reacted because we brought it to him. I discovered this and brought to him. I think he had to react to that. So the timing of this particular cease and desist order is, I think, more related to what came into his office rather than anything they decided to do on their own.

It will be interesting to see what he does next because this is a complicated investigation, it's not the kind of thing, I think, that attorney generals usually do in a few weeks. So we will see whether he does anything more on the Trump Foundation before the Election Day or whether this takes sort of a normal timetable and lasts until along after the election.


And then, Drew, looping back to you, on the certification of that -- I think the 20,000 or 25,000 donations, where you have to have the sort of certification, did not Eric Trump's charity, they did follow the rules on this, right?

And, if so, why the disconnect?


GRIFFIN: Well, I think it is the difference between a well-run foundation and a poorly-run foundation. Donald Trump foundation, which many have referred to as kind of a vanity foundation, has no staff. It's run pretty shoddy, as David has pointed out time and time again.

There is either a lot of nefarious things going on or really stupid things going on with how this foundation deals with its own money and pays out its own checks. It does not follow the rules.

My argument would be that's because there is no professional group running this particular foundation. Eric's foundation is a totally different thing. He devotes much of his attention to that foundation, from what I understand.

BALDWIN: OK. I also need to add the Trump campaign has said all parties will cooperate with this investigation.

Drew Griffin, thank you.

David Farenthold, thank you so much.

Forget about bringing up Bill Clinton's infidelities. Trump is now suggesting Hillary Clinton has not been faithful to him without a lick of evidence or fact. We'll discuss.





BALDWIN: Donald Trump starting the week out with a widely criticized debate showing and then this bombshell report that the presidential candidate may have avoided paying federal income taxes for 18 years.

And now this formal cease and desist to the Trump Foundation from New York's attorney general for operating without proper certification.

Kind of a bad week for anyone's standard. But perhaps the most cringe-inducing moment came when Donald Trump opened this Pandora's box.


TRUMP: Hillary Clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. I don't even think she's loyal to Bill, you want to know the truth.

And really, folks, really, why should she be, right?


Donald Trump supporter, former New York city mayor, Rudy Giuliani, doubling down.


RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NYC: That was a sarcastic remark, pointing out that Bill Clinton has quite a past, that Hillary Clinton has done quite a job on attacking the people who were victims of Bill Clinton and, not only that, she poses as a feminist and she has taken money from countries that stone women, kill women.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Bill Clinton's not the nominee, sir. Bill Clinton's not the nominee and this is my last question for you.

Does the Trump campaign -- is Donald Trump and the people around Donald Trump really the ones to be casting aspersions on the marriages of anyone else?

It isn't a -- it isn't a marriage. It's the way she goes on the attack and tries to hurt victims of sexual predations.


BALDWIN: With me now, Peter Wehner, senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and former senior advisor to president George W. Bush, also worked in the last three Republican administrations.

Also with me today, Alice Stewart, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist. Wonderful to have both of you on.


BALDWIN: Alice, let's just get right to it. I do not think there is any disputing, you know, you're a Trump supporter. Trump had a bad week.

Do you agree with this strategy of going after the Clintons' marriage?

STEWART: No. And, look, I'm a Republican. I'm going to vote for Donald Trump. But those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. And let us just say this topic altogether across the board should be taken off the table. And we should focus on the issues the voters are concerned with.

Look, Donald Trump has plenty of positive strong suits that he can be discussing. He can be talking about how his vision for economic future is better than hers. He can talk about his strong stance on immigration and how he plans to --


BALDWIN: But why is he -- but why, then, is his inner circle -- and, I mean, it is a bit of a fraternity. It's a lot of fellows, why are they not telling him that?

How would you advise these men who are advising him?

STEWART: Well, to my understanding, Donald Trump's going to do what Donald Trump is going to do. And there is little talking him out of it and that has been quite clear and we have seen a change, of course, in temperament of the campaigns since Kellyanne Conway came on board.

She has done a phenomenal job but clearly rumors of the death of a flame-throwing Trump are greatly exaggerated and, at times, when he feels as though maybe he has not had a great week, he will bring up something unscripted and off-the-cuff, which is exactly what he has done.

But fortunately they got him back on track today; they did a course correction. I think the meeting he had this morning with military leaders was phenomenal, talking about national security and what he can do to help clean up the V.A. and it's time to get back on course.

He will be in Colorado later today, in Arizona, where he can talk about immigration, which is important, the Second Amendment and really help to work to get things back on course and reel in these independent voters that he desperately needs.

BALDWIN: One event this morning does not a course correction make but I hear your point. And it could be heading in the right -- the right direction. On this other note, though, Peter, you know, I was reading my political playbook for the morning and he had pointed out it was Glenn Thrush and this note about, you know, Googling.

If you go to -- if you go to the Googles and you type in, "Is Trump trying to lose"," do you know how many hits you get?

Ninety million. And from what I understand you are wondering the exact same thing.

PETER WEHNER, SENIOR FELLOW AT THE ETHICS AND PUBLIC POLICY CENTER AND FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yes, I don't know if he's trying to lose but he is losing. I'm not sure there is a difference. He is acting in a way that is incredibly self- destructive, kind of self incineration, self sabotage.

And it is hard to make sense of, you know, any sanity from this approach. The bar is --


WEHNER: -- so low for the Trump supporters, you get him one day without saying something insane and they consider that a victory. And I supposed in a certain way, it is. But this goes really I think to the fundamental problem with Trump and the Trump campaign, which is the real problem here is Donald Trump.

And it is that he has what is euphemistically called a temperament problem but, I think more precisely, is a disorder personality. He is volatile. He is unstable. He is vindictive. He is cruel. He is obsessive and he cannot control himself. He can do it for a day or a couple of days; they can chain him to a teleprompter.

But at the end, his personality comes through and that is the thing that is so alarming. And this last week that he had is one of the worst weeks that I have ever seen a presidential campaign have, from getting slaughtered in the debate by Hillary Clinton, to "The New York Times" story, to his 3:20 am Twitter storm, urging his supporters to take a look at a sex videotape, to statements that you were alluding to, yesterday against Hillary Clinton.

So this is just a total mess.

Look, and let me say one other thing, every campaign has bad moments and bad stories. But what he does is he makes it worse because of his unhinged responses to it. And there is no stopping it.

BALDWIN: You cannot grab -- Alice, I hear you on the event this morning. But you cannot -- Peter mentioned the 3:00 in the morning Twitter escapade. I mean, you cannot grab, you cannot steal his phone out of his hand at 3 o'clock in the morning.

So and I know you speak so highly and so many people do, of Kellyanne Conway but ultimately what do you do?

STEWART: You hire the person that worked for Hillary Clinton, that took a hammer to her phone and let them do the same thing to Donald Trump.

Look, here is where he gets into trouble, is when he is not on prompter, and he's not on a script and where he has time to think and really speak his mind.

And for his base, that is what is appealing to them. That is how he won the primary, much to a lot of folks' dismay. But he needs to get back on track and work to appeal to the independents and the undecideds out there, because they are going to make the difference up in this election.

He does not have enough of the base to win and neither does Hillary. So the key is to reach out to those that are independent and undecided and this negative course of attack is not the way to go.

There -- people are clearly concerned with national security and the economy and if he can stay focused and stay fine-tuned on those issues, then he will be successful. It is just a matter of whether or not he can be disciplined for the next several weeks, which is imperative for him to win.

BALDWIN: On the focus in fine-tuning, final note, Peter, let me ask you; I'm curious how you would respond to this. We know you that the next debate, it is like a town hall forum, right, next week and in St. Louis. And we understand that Chris Christie, who has really excelled in these sorts of forums, is apparently helping coach Donald Trump.

What sort of advice do you think Governor Christie should be offering Donald Trump, based upon what we saw at Hofstra University?

WEHNER: I say don't be Donald Trump. But that is impossible.


WEHNER: Look, I will tell you what the problem is or what I suppose tactically, given how Trump is and seeing what we have seen in the last week, he is going to want to settle scores. He is furious and enraged. And we know how he acts that way.

That is very difficult to do in a debate. It is triply difficult to do in a town hall debate when you have citizens there and if he tries to pull that off, he's not only going to put his leg into a trap, he's going to put his neck into it. It is a very, very hard format to do.

And I suspect that he is going to continue to blow apart. He has been doing that now and again through this entire campaign and it is accelerating and it is frankly unsettling to see a nominee of a major presidential party blow apart in public like this.

But the these are the times.

BALDWIN: Peter and Alice, thank you. That happens in St. Louis next weekend.

In the meantime, we're going to veer totally off of politics and talk about Kim Kardashian. Oh, yes, Kim Kardashian. She was robbed at gunpoint in Paris. There

is now a manhunt underway for these five masked men, tied her up, locked her in her bathroom and took off with millions of dollars' worth of jewelry.

We'll actual to a former jewel thief about how this may have been planned.

And how do you actually sell $10 million worth of stolen jewelry anyway?

We have that for you next.





BALDWIN: Kim Kardashian is back in the U.S. She is shaken but injured after these five masked gunmen, disguised as police officers, burst into her luxury Paris apartment early this morning, robbed the reality TV star at gunpoint, tied her up, locked her in the bathroom with guns pointed to her head.

Policemen say these thieves got away on bicycles after stealing Kim Kardashian's jewelry, valued, by the way, at more than $10 million.

CNN's Jim Bittermann is there for us in Paris.

Jim, what do you know?


JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: All this took place at about 3:00 this morning at this luxury apartment hotel, a very discreet place, not known to too many Parisians, basically, where stars come to stay, having and wanting a safe house in Paris.

Of course, it was not so safe last night for Kim Kardashian because the five robbers managed to overpower the concierge, convince him to take them up to Kim Kardashian's room; two of them went in, handcuffed Kim Kardashian and then stole her jewelry, worth an estimated $10 million.

Now one of things that's happened since then is that is the mayor of Paris has come out and said she condemns this assault, important that she's out there because --


BITTERMANN: -- this comes on the heels of 18 months of terrorism and other kinds of attacks here in Paris, that call into question security. And it's something that is now greatly in question that this could have happened in the center of Paris overnight last night -- Jim Bittermann, Paris.


BALDWIN: All right, Jim, thank you so much.

By any standards, this is a brazen, audacious heist and it had a lot of people asking how were these thieves able to gain access to a luxury Paris apartment then, on bikes, cycle away with $10 million worth of jewelry?

Let's put that question to Larry Lawton. He was once known as the biggest jewel thief in the U.S. Thankfully, he has turned his talents into motivational speaking and writing and is the president of Reality Check program.

Also with us, Steven Stanulis, who actually once was Kim Kardashian and Kanye West's bodyguard, a New York police officer. He is now the owner of Silver Shield Investigations -- Investigators, rather.

So, gentlemen, great to have both of you on.

And Larry, to you first. You just heard Jim etch out what we know on the -- on the robbery.

What you make of how it was clearly planned and executed?

LARRY LAWTON, FORMER JEWEL THIEF: Well, obviously, I think it's an inside job. They had to know when she was going to be into the -- in the apartment or where she was, that she had that kind of jewelry.

And that could have been done by the concierge. It could have been done by anybody, from doormen to airport workers. So I think there is an inside element to it.

To get away, too, when you look at the getaway, they said bicycles. The bicycles might have went two blocks and went into a van. And then after the van it went -- or a van or a truck and they are gone. Usually, a planned heist, they split it up real quick.

So it is more to the whole story, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I mean, I never heard of bicycles. Then, again it's Paris and a lot of people hop on bikes on small, charming streets and away you go.

Steven, on the bodyguard note, if you are rolling around -- and, listen, I have questions on even why one would have $2 million in jewels. But obviously she did.

Why wasn't the bodyguard by her side the entire time she had that kind of jewelry on her?

Apparently the bodyguard was out without clubbing with some of the sisters.

STEVEN STANULIS, FORMER KARDASHIAN-WEST BODYGUARD: Right. And I think he was right on. I think it was an inside job due to that fact because the bodyguard, the main bodyguard was sent to be with the other -- the other sisters so the robbers quote-unquote were not that lucky to get into a location that was a secret entrance and that she was with no security.

And that with Snapchat, which is ridiculous, to show all that jewelry on Snapchat, and not have a second security guard there, who was armed and maybe had police training, is boggling to me. So I think he was really right on, that it is definitely an inside job.

BALDWIN: You know, Steven, to the point on Snapchat --


BALDWIN: -- to the point of Snapchat and social media, these girls, these Kardashians, they are known for right being on Twitter every 0.2 seconds and talking about their whereabouts and what they have, which is part of the allure, I suppose.

But does not that also pose such a challenge for a bodyguard?

Because you are basically broadcasting to the universe, hey, here is where I am every moment.

STANULIS: Absolutely and, again, I do not think there is anybody in her camp that has the ability, security wise, or the people that work for either of them, Kim or Kanye, say, listen, maybe that is not the smartest thing to do.

I mean, it is a -- it is a criminal's paradise to know exactly where someone is going to be, what they are wearing, what time they're showing up. It -- to me, it is mind-boggling and when you do security, there's -- I have done other high-profile clients, A-list clients and they have their own way of doing things, which I do not really agree with.

But that is the way they do it. And I saw this happening back in February, they way they structure the security.

BALDWIN: Larry, I want to come to you but I also just want to show everyone what we're talking about, this diamond ring. This is the bling, right, that she was sporting in Paris, it was Paris Fashion Week.

This is part of the treasure trove that they apparently made away with.

Larry, you wanted to jump in.

LAWTON: Yes, there's a couple of things. Those, the Twitter and the Snapchat and the social media is pretty much for an impulse steal. More this is planned. This is -- this has a getaway, this -- like you said, the bikes, they were either a van or something. Knowing where she was, that the guy was out of the place.

So this is a little bit more planned. And also with jewelry, you know, I try to get it through to people and clients that I have and people I talk to, it is so easy to put $10 million of jewelry in your pocket.

I remember the $136 million robber we talked about --


STANULIS: I have $10 million in my pocket right now, $10 million in jewelry. So I get it.

BALDWIN: Well, good for you, Steven (ph). Good for you.



BALDWIN: Go ahead, Larry.

But if you have that amount of money or jewelry -- hang on. But if you have that in your pocket, it's one thing.

But then how do you turn around and sell it if you have a $4.5 million diamond ring and people are wondering where did you get that diamond ring?

LAWTON: Well, you know Brooke, that's what I was bringing up earlier in other conversations, the fencing. And to the audience --


LAWTON: -- a fence is a person who deals in stolen property. It seems like that's happening a lot in Europe, I mean, nobody's getting caught with the fences. So the fences have their own network of people that they can actually get rid of; they break up diamonds and jewels and then reset them, sell them different ways and stuff, around the whole world.

And I think they got to start investigation with the fences because that's I think that's how you're going to break up big rings, whether it was the Pink Panther gang or other organized groups that are doing robs like this, robbers like this.

BALDWIN: Larry (ph) and Steven (ph). thank you, Steven (ph) with your $10 million, clearly you picked the right profession. Thank you --


BALDWIN: -- very much. Good to see both of you.

Let's get you back, though, to politics. More on our breaking news, Hillary Clinton ripping Donald Trump over the report that he has not paid federal income taxes for years.

Also had more criticism against Trump after he physically mocked Hillary Clinton's bout with pneumonia.

Have you seen this?

Let us talk about it -- ahead.





BALDWIN: So CNN is on this nationwide tour to capture the faces and the voices of this year's elections. We have this great team of correspondents traveling across this great land in a camper. They are hitting key swing states and destinations leading up to the final days of this presidential election with the goal of essentially cutting through the noise and grasping the real pulse of America.

Today, the hashtag, #myvotecamper and projection tour is at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia, decided tomorrow's vice presidential debate. So joining me now to discuss this -- really, they just wanted to take a road trip -- CNN digital correspondents Chris Moody and Vanessa Yurkevich.

So, guys, great to see you. I will see you in Farmville tomorrow. But talk about this road trip.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so Chris and I have been on a road trip for a week now. We started right after Hofstra and we're heading all the way to Las Vegas. We're hitting up all the presidential debates but in between we're stopping at some key battleground states. And we're talking to the voters.

We do not really want to talk to the candidates. We don't want to talk to the pundits or the surrogates. We want to hear from the voters.

And one of our first stops was in Scranton, Pennsylvania, a very important state in this election.

CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Pennsylvania could be pivotal in this election; it is in play in a way it has not been for years in a in a presidential race. Donald Trump is really making inroads with lifelong Democrats.

There are far more registered Democrats in Pennsylvania than there are Republicans. But we met a number of people and the polling is showing this as well. The registered Democrats in that state, at least a few of them, are either becoming Republicans or are voting for Trump.

Along the way we met a quite a few characters; one guy, Bob Bolis (ph), who has decked out his entire 18-wheeler in pro-Trump messages and videos -- or messages and pictures. We actually took a road trip with him. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BOB BOLIS (PH), TRUCKER: I don't have to do this. I do this because I believe in this country. You're in Pennsylvania right. See what happens out here.

You'll get a flavor for why he's going to win PA. He knows the kind of stuff of what makes this type of stuff work. Knows the business end of it. It's not just about me driving a stupid truck around. It's about seeing what this country's really about.


YURKEVICH: And as you saw Chris and I, bopping around with Bob in his truck, what was interesting is we started looking out the windows and we saw that people were driving right up next to the truck, taking photos, giving their thumbs up --


MOODY: And other hand signals --

YURKEVICH: -- and other, you know, signs --


BALDWIN: Television.

YURKEVICH: Exactly, exactly. But also stopped at a couple rest stops and Trump stops and a lot of people just like us swarmed the truck. It was like a magnet. People from both sides, people who supported Trump, people who are against him.

But Bob particularly loved talking to people of both sides. He is very interested in people expressing how they feel about the election and in his terms, the truck is his way of expressing his point of view about the election.

BALDWIN: Awesome. I just love that we've sent you out in this RV to talk to the people who matter, the people who will be voting for the next President of the United States, you two in Farmville tomorrow, Chris and Vanessa, thank you, thank you, on your road trip.

Coming up next, breaking news. New York's attorney general just issuing a cease and desist order against Trump's foundation. We will tell you why. We're back in 90 seconds.