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Kaine and Pence Go On the Attack in VP Debate; Bracing for Hurricane Matthew. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired October 5, 2016 - 04:30   ET




[04:30:22] GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Did you work on that one a long time? Because that had a lot of really creative lines in it.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, I'm going to see if you can defend any of it.


CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Tim Kaine and Mike Pence butting heads on the debate stage. The two would-be vice presidents making the case for their respected candidates in a spirited contentious battle. Who had the upper hand? And was there a defining moment that could change the game?

Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman. Great to see you. Thirty minutes past the hour right.

So, that escalated quickly. The vice presidential debate more heated, more contentious than many expected. This was the only face-off between Governor Mike Pence of Indiana and Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. And while they were sitting down, it seemed that Senator Kaine was almost jumping out of his chair at times and attacking Donald Trump any and every chance he got -- even if it meant interrupting which he did often.

Governor Pence showed off as a former talk show host and didn't take the bait as much as his boss did last week. But then again, he didn't bother defending his boss or some of Trump's statements at times though given ample opportunity to do so. And at times, Pence came out with different policies from his running mate.

A poll taken after the debate found that viewers came out on top with a relatively slim margin, 48 percent to 42 percent. We should note, it was a slightly more Democratic audience. So, that could affect the scores right there. Donald Trump was on Twitter throughout the debate. Once it ended, he declared, "Mike Pence won big. We should all be proud of Mike." I want to bring in CNN's executive editor for politics, Mark Preston, who has not slept, awake.

Give us a lowdown of what happened there, Mark?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, John, you know, no doubt, these are two men certainly different with politics, but they do have similarities. Tim Kaine is from Kansas, Mike Pence from Indiana, they're both very low when it comes to politicians not very outward so to speak. And also, they were both chosen by their respective running mates to help shore up some weaknesses.

In the case of Mike Pence, he was brought on by Donald Trump to help him connect with the Republican establishment and also because Mike Pence knows Washington well. And Tim Kaine who is also very well- schooled in state politics, was chosen to help soften Hillary Clinton's image.

But as you said, this was a bare knuckled brawl basically right from the beginning.

Let's take a listen to two sharp exchanges between the men.


KAINE: And I just want to talk about the tone that's set from the top. Donald Trump during his campaign has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. I don't like saying that in front of my wife and my mother.

PENCE: Ours is an insult-driven campaign? I mean, to be honest with you, if Donald Trump had said all of the things that you've said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that Hillary Clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables.


PRESTON: And there you have Mike Pence and Tim Kaine exchanging barbs last night on the debate stage down in Virginia. Now, this is very likely set the scene for the next debate. Anderson Cooper is going to moderate that. That's going to be in St. Louis, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton on the stage together.

And again, if we take any cue from what we saw last night and what we saw between the first debate from Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, you can expect it to be raucous I think come Sunday night.

ROMANS: All right. I'm already looking ahead, Mark Preston who is not going to sleep until sometime in November. All right. Stay right here.

Let's bring in our panel. Angela Rye, CNN political commentator and former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, John Phillips is with us. He's a CNN political commentator, and talk radio host, he supports Donald Trump. Eugene Scott is a CNN politics reporter, and Brian Stelter, CNN senior media reporter and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Eugene, let's talk first about what Mike Pence was there to do last night. You heard Mark Preston say he was there to connect with the GOP establishment. But he wasn't necessarily there to defend outright his candidate, really. I mean, at least some people are saying that this morning.

Let's listen to a moment where Tim Kaine was saying that. You're not defending your own candidate.


KAINE: You know, I'm just saying facts about your running mate.

PENCE: Yeah.

KAINE: And I know you can't defend.

MODERATOR: Senator, please. This is the governor's two minutes.

PENCE: I'm happy to defend him, Senator. Don't put words in my mouth that I'm not defending him.

KAINE: You're not.

PENCE: I'm happy to defend him.


ROMANS: A lot of people this morning saying, Eugene, saying that Mike Pence won last night. And he, you know, was his on man on that stage?

[04:35:02] EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I mean, one of the goals for Trump campaign for Pence was to change the narrative, to talk about policy issues and new ideas that weren't rooted in some of the missteps shall we say in the Trump campaign in last week. I think he thought the best way perhaps not to discuss them was not to discuss them at all, which is what he did.

BERMAN: He wasn't going to talk about miss universe. He really wanted to move on whenever taxes came up. He tried to either change the subject or just not address the subject.


BERMAN: And it worked. Our viewers said he won the debate, albeit narrowly. There's something else, Brian Stelter, that he did beyond that, which is in some cases, come up with policy that Donald Trump just hasn't discussed in the trail. I don't think he has. Mike Pence proposed going after perhaps the Assad regime in Syria which I don't think Donald Trump supports.

Let's listen to that sound.


PENCE: Provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength.

And if Russia chooses to be involved and continue, I should say, to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in Aleppo, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad regime to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in Aleppo.


BERMAN: Strike military targets of the Assad regime? I don't think I've heard Donald Trump say that.

STELTER: No, in some cases, Pence was talking about more Republican traditional Republican Party views, one that Trump has broken with in some cases. When you look at the GOP we site, before the debate started, it said Mike Pence had already won.

It turned out they were right, Pence did win certainly on the style. If you look at CNN's poll afterwards, it found that more debate watchers found that Kaine was in step with their views and Kaine had a better grasp on issues. But Pence was more likable. And likability is really important in the debates.

But we should note there were a number of times Pence went far beyond the facts. CNN's reality check team finding false and misleading states on both sides but finding more on Pence's side than Kaine's side. That was a factor.

ROMANS: I want to get bumper stickers that say true, comma, but misleading. But that's basically every campaign I've cover said true but misleading.

Angela, I hear you chuckling. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, it's been a pretty bad week for the Trump campaign. And that was a good performance last night by Mike Pence. Are you concerned that they've been able to turn the page here into a new phase going into this election?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know what, Christine, I'm not concerned at all. Let me tell you why, what you asked me was perfect. The performance last night, it was a performance. It was literally like Mike Pence was acting in a movie, because his reality is not one that I can react to and certainly one that's been covered and certainly one that doesn't exist in the Trump campaign.

When John started the segment he talked about Mike Pence's boss, right? I don't know if you notice you were doing that, John, if you did, that was great, because Tim Kaine was also calling him I thought this was the best line last night. He said, you know, you are definitely Donald Trump's apprentice.

That's exactly what this was, it was almost like I'm going to do whatever I can to deflect and deny for my candidate so that he has a clear path in St. Louis on Sunday. Well, here's the reality, Donald Trump is not disciplined enough to keep up that act. He's been acting throughout. But his act has been full of 180s because he continues to change his positions along the way.

Of course, Mike Pence is more disciplined. But I also think he demonstrated very clearly what Harry Reid has argued on the Senate floor, and that is that the Republican establishment created the monster that is now Donald Trump and their nominee.

BERMAN: John, I want you to respond to this. Is Donald Trump disciplined to watch that performance last night from Mike Pence and think that maybe this is the way he should go on Sunday night when Anderson moderates?

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he'd do himself a favor if he did copy some of what Mike Pence said last night because Mike Pence was very effective.

And to go back to the point that Mike Pence didn't defend every single charge that Tim Kaine threw out there, look, this is a debate, it's not a divorce court where if you don't refute ever single point, you lose the kids and the cabin in Big Bear.

To piggyback on Mark Preston's point that this is about tone, I think it was a very good point. I think that Mike Pence set a great tone last night where he looked like the sober one. He looked like the guy who is the experienced hand, who understands policy.

BERMAN: But, John, the question is compared to whom, right? Compared to Tim Kaine?


BERMAN: Or compared to other candidates also running for major office who might be atop of his ticket?

PHILLIPS: I think compared to all of them, he had a great showing last night.

So, I'm not surprised he's being lauded as he is on social media and these polls. And the focus groups are even more in Pence's column than the polls. So, look, I think he did a great job last night. And I think that Donald Trump is certainly feeling much better this morning than he was yesterday.

[04:40:02] ROMANS: All right. Everybody cool stuff. Don't go away. We have a lot to talk about.

And the thing they talked about a lot, the $19 trillion national debt. Something we talked about in this season. Tim Kaine made this claim last night.


KAINE: You did ask this question about debt, and the debt explosion on the Trump plan is much, much bigger than anything on the Clinton side.


ROMANS: All right. So that claim is true and why, Donald Trump wants to cut taxes increase military and infrastructure spending a cut the small parts of the budget like Social Security. He said he will not touch Social Security.

But independent analysts disagree. Trump's tax and spending plan would add $5.3 trillion to the national debt over ten years. That's according to the Committee for Responsible Federal Budget. It's a bipartisan think tank which is, of course, worried about debt.

Clinton's plans would add $200 billion. She would also increase government spending but would pay for it with higher taxes on the wealthy, although you could argue whether she would be able to get that true.

The committee says neither candidate has a serious plan to address the nation's growing debt. Romans numeral for today, $168,320. That's each U.S. household share of the national debt.

That's yours, John, 168,320 bucks. Pay up.

BERMAN: That's a big number.

ROMANS: It sure.

BERMAN: All right. Stay with CNN for continuing coverage of the vice presidential debate. Did Mike Pence or Tim Kaine either land a decisive blow last night? Will this move the needle? The question people ask from a vice presidential debate is, did it even matter? I say yes.

We've got our experts' take, coming up.


[04:45:55] BERMAN: All right. Back now with our panel to discuss last night's vice presidential debate. The only face-off between Senator Tim Kaine and Governor Mike Pence of Indiana happened just a few hours ago. The dust system settling.

There was one moment toward the end of the debate that raised a lot of eyebrows. Tim Kaine had been going after Mike Pence going after Donald Trump really all night for the comment as it Donald Trump made when he announced he was running for office, over the border of Mexico, Mexico was sending rapists among other things.

Tim Kaine said that a lot. Finally, he seemed to get under Mike Pence's skin a little bit.

Listen to this.


PENCE: Senator, you've whipped out that Mexican thing again. He -- look --

KAINE: Can you defend it?

PENCE: There are criminal aliens in this country, Tim, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence and taking American lives.

KAINE: You want to -- you want to use a big broad brush against Mexicans on that?

PENCE: He also said and many of them are good people.


BERMAN: So, Mark Preston, for a while, it seemed like Democrats are trying to get you whipped out that Mexican thing again trending on Twitter. They were trying to make fetch happen. I don't know if fetch did happen in this case, to quote "Mean Girls", Mark Preston's favorite movie here.

Which gets to the bigger question is, you know, how much do vice presidential debates matter? That happened last night, tens of millions of people watched. What effect does it have on the race?

PRESTON: Well, they do matter. Let me just explain it this way. Give you a pathway of what I think you're getting at John and I agree with is that, it does matter. First of all if you go to the poll last night, and you dig deep into the numbers and when those who watched the debate who participated in our poll were asked do you think that Tim Kaine could be president, or qualified to be president? Seventy percent of our poll watchers said yes, 77 percent of our poll watchers said Mike Pence is qualified.

So that's actually some good news that has come out of this debate that was a bit of a boxing match last night. So, at least it was good feeling there.

When it comes to Mike Pence, though, let's just talk about him personally, Mike Pence if this doesn't go well for him in November, he certainly has gained a lot of street cred with Republicans, and those who watched the debate last night and quite frankly the commentators as we.

Look at those numbers right there, who's more likable? Mike Pence is at 53 percent. I mean, that was pretty strong number for somebody who a third of Americans didn't know who he was heading into the debate.

But on the flip side, when you talk about Tim Kaine who was a little rambunctious out there and quite frankly hurt himself personally, the question ask who best defended their running mate, Tim Kaine got 58 percent of that vote.

So, I think that what happened was Tim Kaine did when he had to do, he did it in an inarticulate way in many cases. But Mike Pence did what he had to do. He had to do his best to defend Donald Trump without sacrificing his own values, because clearly, Mike Pence and Donald Trump don't always sing off the same songbook.

ROMANS: Brian Stelter, let's talk about what seemed to be canned lines in some cases from Tim Kaine. He had some really well worked over moments there. Let's listen to those and I want you to tell me if you think he wept too far.


KAINE: You are a Donald Trump's apprentice.

Do you want a "you're hired" president in Hillary Clinton, or do you want a "you're fire" president in Donald Trump?

Donald Trump can't start a war with Miss Universe without shooting himself in the foot.

Third, he loves dictators. He's got kind of a personal Mount Rushmore, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, Moammar Gadhafi --

PENCE: Oh, please. Come on.

KAINE: -- and Saddam Hussein.

If you don't know the difference between dictatorship and leadership, then you've got to go back to a fifth grade civic class.


STELTER: You know, the best canned lines are lines that don't sound canned at all. These came across as obviously prepared. Pence even made fun of Kaine for being over-prepared. Not that it matters for viewers at home.

But these bites are the ones that were designed to be played over and over again. I'm not sure they will be this morning.

[04:50:00] The conversation is so much more about Pence. The media contends that Pence was the winner, not Kaine. Maybe the apprentice line will be heard again on the campaign trail, but it won't be the headline out of the debate.

BERMAN: I want 15 seconds last thoughts from Eugene, Angela and John Phillips.

Eugene, go ahead.

SCOTT: Yes, I think Tim Kaine did way better than people thought. He's getting a lot of pushback this morning. But I think it was Mike Pence's night and I think a lot of conservatives are going to feel happy.

BERMAN: Angela?

RYE: Going back to the Mexican thing, I think that you're going to definitely see this in an ad. We always have an ad line, so I think that's it for the night. BERMAN: John Phillips?

PHILLIPS: It was a good night for Mike Pence, it seemed to me that Tim Kaine came to debate Donald Trump and not Mike Pence.

ROMANS: All right. We'll be right back. Thanks, guys.

Quick break.


ROMANS: Hurricane Matthew leaving a trail of destruction and death barreling across the Caribbean with an eye on the U.S. East Coast now. This monster storm, torrential rains and sustained winds of 130 miles an hour.

[04:55:06] It's causing major damage in Haiti, which is still recovering, of course, from that devastating earthquake back in 2010.

The storm is blamed for at least seven deaths now, including four in the neighboring Dominican Republic. The hurricane making landfall overnight in Cuba, as it heads for the Bahamas and a trip up the eastern seaboard.

Emergency declarations are already in effect from Florida, to North Carolina, people in south Florida waiting in long gas lines. They are anticipating the storm's arrival and getting ready. Florida Governor Rick Scott warning residents to be ready for a direct hit.


GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: If Hurricane Matthew hits this state, we're going to see massive destruction. This is a deadly storm approaching our state. I cannot stress that enough.


BERMAN: The big question, the crucial question right now is where is Hurricane Matthew headed?

Let's get straight to meteorologist Pedram Javaheri.


PEDRAM JAVAHERI, AMS METEOROLOGIST: John and Christine, category 3 Hurricane Matthew has weakened a little bit but more strengthening ahead of us in the next two days across this region.

You take a look, of course, the storm surge going to be a predominant threat for the Bahamas and island nation, of course, that is extremely flat and often times when hurricanes do move through this region literally do not get impacted whatsoever by the land ahead of them just because of the flat nature of this particular area.

And then you work your way towards the coastal region of Florida, three to five-foot storm surge possible. That would be for Thursday into Friday, the storm system near in land in that point.

But hurricane warnings still in place for much of southeast Florida, work their way towards Daytona Beach, even Orlando. Hurricane watches in place across this region for hurricane conditions as we approach Thursday into Friday.

And notice, the storm could park offshore as a category four. It would eventually pull into the Carolinas sometimes late Friday into Saturday, somewhere between a category three or two. You don't want to fall in love with the cone here. It could certainly favor the western periphery or the eastern periphery, so we're watching this very carefully for all the variations in the forecast here, guys.


BERMAN: Yes, and there's an update in just a few minutes at 5:00, at 8:00, and 11:00. The big question is, will this pinch into Florida?


BERMAN: Which will be a direct hit. And what happen in Georgia and the Carolinas? This is a very dangerous storm, a lot of people in its path, a lot of reason for concern.

ROMANS: A hundred thirty-mile-per-hour winds expected to generate, back to category four it goes, keeps moving up the coast there.

BERMAN: And the president cancelled a trip to Florida. Albeit a political trip because he can't be there right now if the hurricane hit because he got other things to do.

ROMANS: All right. Let's get an early start on your money quickly. On Wall Street, investors grappling with concerns about Europe's big banks and comments by two members of the Federal Reserve that signal a rate hike could be coming in December. Dow futures are down slightly right now. Stock markets in Europe and Asia are mixed. Oil back at $49 a barrel.

Look at shares of Twitter. They're expected to jump, stock at 3 percent in premarket trading. Offers to buy it expected to come in this week. Reports say Salesforce, Google and Disney are among companies that could submit top bids, so watch Twitter take flight this morning.

BERMAN: Interesting to see those companies, what they would do with Twitter.

ROMANS: Exactly.

BERMAN: Big acquisition.

All right. Mike Pence, Tim Kaine, center stage. The vice presidential debate, and the one and only. Two would enter, one would leave. But who is it?


KAINE: He's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting.

PENCE: Senator, you and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tim Kaine understands what's at stake in the election.

KAINE: Donald Trump is avoiding paying taxes.

PENCE: He used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used, and he did it brilliantly.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why didn't she change the laws?

PENCE: People question the trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton.

KAINE: The thought of Donald Trump as commander in chief scares us to death.

ANNOUNCER: This is "NEW DAY" with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, October 5th, 5:00 in the East. An early edition of "NEW DAY" because we had a big night.

Up first, the nominees for vice president, Tim Kaine and Mike Pence sparring over issues, interruptions, insults, using every opportunity to attack their rivals, presidential candidates. Kaine may have been out-matched on style, but did Pence fail to defend Donald Trump's most inflammatory statements?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Pence, meanwhile, did attack Hillary Clinton's record and trustworthiness. There are only four days until the next presidential debate. There are 34 days left in this election.

We have it all covered for you. First, in case you missed it, here are some of the highlights from last night's VP debate.


MODERATOR: Gentlemen, the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other. I would please ask you to wait until it is until the other is finished.


KAINE: Donald Trump must give the American public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to be president. And he's breaking his promise. PENCE: Elaine.

You can roll out the numbers on the sunny side, but I got to tell you, people in Scranton know different.