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Debate Night in America: Post Debate Analysis; Clinton & Trump Trade Insults in Contentious Nasty Debate; CNN/ORC Poll of Debate Watchers: Clinton Wins. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired October 10, 2016 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:11] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to Washington University in St. Louis. We're following up on this historic debate tonight.
David Chalian, our political director -- you're going through the CNN/ORC polls of debate watchers. You're digging deeper. What are you finding out?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That's right this is a poll of debate watchers. It skews a little more Democratic than a regular national poll would.
That being said, let's take a look at that top line number again. Who won the debate tonight? According to the debate watchers we polled, Hillary Clinton won the debate and she did so by 23 points. 57 percent say Clinton won, 34 percent say Trump won.
We also asked our debate watchers about the reaction and the fallout to the Donald Trump tapes that came out on Friday. So, this is some of the first information we have remember, among debate watchers. How about this? How much have you heard about the Trump video? Well, if you add up their 81 percent of debate watchers have heard either a great deal or a fair amount about this video. This is a massive, sort of penetration into the psyche of the voters of how big a story this was.
Then we asked, do you think Trump's remarks on that video reflect his views on women? 59 percent of debate watchers said yes. Those remarks do reflect his views on women. 37 percent said no.
And then finally we took a look at, you know, did this at all change the way you think about Donald Trump? Did the comments on the video change your view of him? 25 percent of debate watchers tonight tell us that the comments on that tape caused them to have a less favorable view of Donald Trump. 16 percent said a more favorable view.
But here might be some welcome news for Donald Trump, is that 58 percent of debate watchers -- and again, a slightly more Democratic- leaning group, slightly more pro-Clinton group -- did not change their view of Donald Trump due to what they learned on those tapes.
BLITZER: What does that suggest to you -- David? CHALIAN: It just suggests that, yes, a quarter of those watching the
debate did come up with a less favorable view, but he would rather have a majority, as he says, 58 percent did not change their view. Perhaps it did not send him careening off a cliff.
We'll see when polls in battleground states and national polls come out in the days ahead after it fully sinks in. But in terms of this group of debate watchers that's slightly more Democratic, if I were the Trump campaign, I would take a little bit of solace in that that perhaps it wasn't as devastating as some people thought it was.
BLITZER: Were you surprised, Dana, that Hillary Clinton didn't go further in using that tape, that vile language that was on that tape, in going after Trump tonight?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I kind of was. Having said that, I also understand their strategy, which is why would you pile on when he really -- he hurt himself. But there might have been another way to go at it to -- as I said as one Democratic said, source said me -- tried to really put him away because of, and using that tape against him.
I have to say, the fact that all of these people who are watching said that they knew about this tape, I mean you have to be under a rock or in some kind of -- maybe in solitary confinement to have not heard about it because it was so pervasive not just on TV -- social media, in barber shops and beauty parlors, water coolers, you name it.
BLITZER: John King -- what did you think of those results?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the results show that this is going to remain an issue, number one. And if you look at close presidential elections, in past cycles we've called them soccer moms, then we called them security moms -- suburban women are the key factor in almost every very close U.S. presidential election, especially as the demographics of the country has changed.
Why is Denver now -- why is Colorado now a swing state? Because of the growth of the Denver suburbs. Why is Virginia now a swing state, not a Republican state? Because of the growth of the northern Washington suburbs. How do you win Pennsylvania? You win the Philadelphia suburbs. Cleveland, you win -- in Ohio you win Cleveland suburbs and the Columbus suburbs.
Suburban women are a huge force in presidential elections. Hillary Clinton has them right now. And she believes this is a powerful issue for her going forward. I think the surprise of many Republicans is that Donald Trump didn't in that first question, as you're told about your tone, is give a more -- if he wanted to bring up Bill Clinton, if he wanted to do the other things, fine. A lot of Republicans disagree with that. But what they wanted in the first answer for him to take a chance, "I'm sorry, I'm dreadfully sorry". And to be just more -- make it more personal, make it more apologetic.
And if he wanted to do the other stuff later, do it later. But have a separate moment where you dealt with that issue. A lot of Republicans are disappointed he did not do that.
CHALIAN: And to that point, I think the finding that we see here about does these reflect Trump's views on women? The fact that six in ten of debate watchers say yes, it does. So they know about the story. You know what they also know about? They know about his apology, or his stated apology, on Friday night, the video, whatever he answered at the beginning of this debate.
And that still didn't work because still six in ten watching the debate tonight said no, no, no that accurately reflects his views about women.
[00:04:56] KING: And if that sticks 30 days from now, very hard to win. It's just very hard to win. If that's the view of people when they go to vote, 53 percent of the electorate or more will be women. Suburban women again decide close presidential elections. If that view sticks 30 days from now, just the math is overwhelming.
BLITZER: Good point. Jake -- back to you.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks -- Wolf. We have some new joiners for our panel here so I want to get their basic takes on the presidential debate.
And we're going to start with King David -- David Gergen down at the end there. Your take -- what did you think?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's hard to believe there was that much mud-slinging in 90 minutes. This will never go down in the annals of great debates, you know.
But overall, I thought Donald Trump did a lot better than he did in the first debate but he blew his opportunity in the first 20 minutes. I think he blew the debate in the first 20 minutes.
He was evasive on the main questions, especially regarding -- he wouldn't answer the question, did you do what you were bragging about in the tape or not? When did you change? No answer to those questions.
But most importantly, when he was trying to get the headline about his apology and that he was a changed man -- he changed the story by going after this crazy thing saying he would have struck this -- the Justice Department to appoint a special prosecutor.
You know, I was there in the Nixon days, after Nixon, the Congress passed very carefully a law that said the President of the United States can request but he cannot instruct. It's up to the Justice Department to then determine what you can do. That is sort of banana republic approach to say I'm going to do that.
We used to have presidents who would send over and say, send me Donald Trump's tax returns because I'm going to find a way to screw him in some fashion. We don't allow that anymore. We don't allow these sort of runaway presidents, why Trump who had thought about the issue, why he came unprepared to deal with that question. If he really wants to say that -- he wasn't ready. Once again, the lack of preparation, I think, really hurt him.
I thought Hillary Clinton was not as good as she was in the last debate. She was not -- I thought she was poised. She had two really effective answers when she talked about her accomplishments in the senate. I thought those were really very effective and when she responded to that fellow, Mr. Carter, I think his name was, the African-American -- that was the one time she had a very relatable answer. Trump never, ever related to the people who asked him questions. She did well on that particular question.
TAPPER: All right. Corey Lewandowski?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, I think Donald Trump was disciplined tonight. He was fast on his feet. He was specific on issues. He clearly won this debate.
If you go and look at it -- and he asked Hillary Clinton specifically to talk about the two Hillary Clintons -- right. The one in the private and the one in the public. You know what her answer was? Abraham Lincoln. This is a movie I watched from Steven Spielberg and that's what I was talking about. It's completely egregious.
And the point is once again he pointed out the hypocrisy of the media. It shows that she's not being truthful. The American people don't think she's truthful and this is exactly what -- why the American people don't want a failed politician who's been in office for 30 years.
He continued to talk about that. He talked about health care. He talked about specifically the coal issue at the end of this debate and how she wants to put coal miners out of business. No one wants to talk about that.
But what he did talk about specifically were specifics. He was very specific on issues tonight. It was a home run for Donald Trump.
TAPPER: Patti Solis Doyle?
PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: For me, I was completely startled by how completely the alt-right has taken over Donald Trump's campaign. I mean in, you know, the first hour he called her the devil. He said there was hatred in her heart. He was going to throw her in jail. He blamed her for the birther conspiracy again. And of course, topped it all off by bringing in Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey into the debate hall, which I thought was awful.
Here's what I think happened. I think the last 48 hours and the number of people who have abandoned him really affected him. And tonight he turned his back on Republican elites, on moderates and he completely embraced his base. That's what he's going to be for the next 30 days. And that's not going to win him the presidency.
TAPPER: One thing that we've been talking about is how Hillary Clinton did not make as much of the tape, the "Access: Hollywood" tape from Friday as many people thought she would and why that was. Let's play some from the top of the debate when Anderson Cooper first asked Donald Trump about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, DEBATE MODERATOR: You called what you said locker room banter. You describe kissing women without consent, grabbing their genitals. That is sexual assault. You bragged that you have sexually-assaulted women. Do you understand that?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: No, I didn't say that at all. I don't think you understood what was said. This was locker room talk. I'm not proud of it. I apologize to my family. I apologize to the American people. Certainly, I'm not proud of it. But this is locker room talk.
You know, when we have a world where you have ISIS chopping off heads, where you have -- and, frankly, drowning people in steel cages, where you have wars and horrible, horrible sights all over, where you have so many bad things happening, this is like medieval times. We haven't seen anything like this -- the carnage all over the world. And they look and they see. Can you imagine the people that are, frankly, doing so well against us with ISIS and they look at other country and they see what's going on.
[00:10:03] Yes, I'm very embarrassed by it. I hate it. But it's locker room talk and it's one of those things.
I will knock the hell out of ISIS. We're going to defeat ISIS. ISIS happened a number of years ago in a vacuum that was left because of bad judgment. And I will tell you, I will take care of ISIS --
COOPER: So, Mr. Trump --
TRUMP: We need to get onto much more important things and much bigger things.
COOPER: Just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?
TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.
COOPER: So, for the record, you're saying you never did that?
TRUMP: Frankly, you hear these things are said. And I was embarrassed by it, but I have tremendous respect for women --
COOPER: Have you ever done those things?
TRUMP: -- and women have respect for me. And I will tell you, no, I have not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Not good enough for you, of course?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Is bragging about sexual assault that you didn't commit a good thing?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, either way --
BORGER: Is that the standard? I don't think -- I don't think that's the standard. And I think that Anderson asked him directly, what you're saying having later spent the entire evening calling Hillary Clinton a liar, what he said was he was lying and that he hadn't done those things but, in fact, he bragged about them.
This is a 59-year-old guy. This isn't somebody who is a frat guy. Excuse me here, I know we're on a college campus, but -- but --
TAPPER: The crowd is turning on you -- Gloria. They're upset.
BORGER: I know. I'm sorry.
TAPPER: I'll set her straight. I'll set her straight.
BORGER: But this is a 59-year-old man.
LEWANDOWSKI: Nobody cares. You know what, if you look at the focus group --
BORGER: I care. I care.
LEWANDOWSKI: If you look at the focus group tonight, you know what they care about -- Hillary Clinton's e-mails where she lied and committed basically perjury.
BORGER: And I'm not going to disagree with on you that.
LEWANDOWSKI: So why are we still talking -- he's apologized. You guys have given a pass to Hillary Clinton because she's apologized having a private server. You want to relitigate and he's apologized so let's move on past it. Let's talk about what the American people care about.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The question is whether the apology was convincing. He didn't apologize to the women who he was talking about in that tape. He didn't seem particularly remorseful. And then he quickly shifted to Bill Clinton and ISIS, so that there was a sense that this was a perfunctory check the box --
TAPPER: Is this as effective as you wanted it to be? His apology?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think Hillary Clinton didn't apologize to Kathy Sheldon, who was in the audience tonight, who she supported and was a defense attorney for a 12-year-old rape victim and is on tape laughing on two separate occasions.
JONES: That's just not true.
LEWANDOWSKI: There was no apology. BORGER: She did apologize on the e-mails.
LEWANDOWSKI: She didn't apologize tonight. No -- that's right. But she didn't apologize to Kathy Sheldon who was in the audience tonight, did she? A 12-year-old rape victim who she defended or anyone else. She had the opportunity tonight and she didn't apologize.
TAPPER: For the record, she was appointed by the court as a defense attorney represent --
LEWANDOWSKI: She supported that when you laugh at a 12-year-old rape victim.
TAPPER: She wasn't laughing at the rape victim.
LEWANDOWSKI: She did.
JONES: The "New York times" just fact-checked you on that and said it was 100 percent false. So just move on.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's not true. You have a 12-year-old rape victim in the audience.
NIA-MALIA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: I mean I read his answer -- dismissing it as locker room talk and in a vague way he talked about it as a political answer. He probably knows that there are more tapes out there of him saying lewd comments. He might even know that there might be women out there who might come forward who might say this.
So when he was asked, for instance, when did you change he kept evading because it could be that in 2010 he said something --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he hit on --
TAPPER: And the CNN focus group said that the people overwhelmingly did not buy his answer on that.
Let me just play something from Hillary Clinton and her response when she was asked about this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well-being like everyone else I spent a lot of time thinking over the last 48 hours about what we heard and saw. You know, with prior Republican nominees for president, I disagreed with them on politics, policies, principles, but I never questioned their fitness to serve.
Donald Trump is different. I said starting back in June that he was not fit to be president and commander in chief. And many Republicans and Independents have said the same thing.
What we all saw and heard on Friday was Donald talking about women, what he thinks about women, what he does to women. And he has said that the video doesn't represent who he is, but I think it's clear to anyone who heard it, that it represents exactly who he is because we've seen this throughout the campaign.
[00:14:53] We have seen him insult women. We've seen him rate women on their appearance, ranking them from one to ten. We've seen him embarrass women on TV and on Twitter. We saw him after the first debate spend nearly a week denigrating a former Miss Universe in the harshest, most personal terms. So yes, this is who Donald Trump is.
But it's not only women and it's not only this video that raises questions about his fitness to be our president. Because he has also targeted immigrants, African-Americans, Latinos, people with disabilities, POWs, Muslims and so many others. So, this is who Donald Trump is. And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Yes. Well, listen, I think that that was important for her to say. This tape is actually bigger than the debate. I mean the tape actually crystallized something that's very, very important. The difference between what you see in this tape and what you've seen in everything else he's done that's been offensive -- and frankly, very offensive to me.
You could always excuse it either as political conviction or political calculation. He's going after the Muslims, the Mexicans, whoever -- Black Lives Matter but it's political conviction or calculation. Or you could say it's entertainment. I'm on the "Howard Stern Show", I have to go along with it. I'm an entertainer.
This is the first time you've seen something that is neither. This is an x-ray into him, by himself, not being political, not on television. And what you see is shocking.
And the worst thing about it for me going forward has been this idea that you can now dismiss it as locker room talk. That is very dangerous because here's a problem. There's a culture that allows rape. There's a culture that allows sexual assault. When you minimize it, it's just locker room talk. No, you are describing sexual assault.
If I grabbed Donald Trump's crotch and tried to kiss him, I would go to jail. That's called a sexual assault -- ok. So, you're talking about criminal activity, but you minimize it. It's very dangerous the way he was talking about it then and now.
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: But they do minimize this. I mean what is the response to the presence of these women tonight in that audience -- to minimize it, to ignore them, to say that it's some sort of insult, to bring someone who claims to be a rape victim to this debate. Now we're saying, oh, well, that's not a big deal?
One other thing here, one other thing, we get as Americans all, you know, wrought up about some of these conversations but Donald Trump's point there about ISIS is a serious one. It's a serious one.
JONES: It's a serious answer, though -- question.
LORD: Look, the serious answer here is that when we're fussing over this tape and people are literally cutting people's heads off --
JONES: Listen, I don't --
LORD: You think the tape is the problem.
JONES: Listen, hold on a second. That's really, really bad. You have people tonight on this campus and the campuses across the country that are trying to figure out how to deal with sexual assault.
LORD: And they should be celebrating --
JONES: Hold on. Don't mix these two things. We can both be against ISIS and against rape.
GERGEN: Jeffrey, you know your history very well and you know that there's a long literature now stretching back to Nixon that says, the most important quality you look for in a president is personal character. And sometimes in politics we have what are called naked moments, when you actually see through to the character of somebody, without all the handlers around and everything like that.
GERGEN: We saw in Ronald Reagan's character when he was shot, what kind of person that he was as he responded to that. And this tape in many ways for many people represents that insight of the fundamental character --
LORD: For women --
GERGEN: For women or -- they were litigated some years ago.
LEWANDOWSKI: What about Hillary Clinton saying deplorables and people who --
GERGEN: I agree with that.
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, all of a sudden we're pushing that aside --
AXELROD: None of that -- Corey, none of that explains Donald Trump's behavior. What people are looking for was some -- something from him that showed a greater awareness of why this was so troubling to people and maybe some introspection that we haven't seen.
And let me just say one other thing. We've heard a lot about how this impacts our daughters and I have a daughter, our wives, women generally, but I have two sons also.
SOLIS: I hear you. AXELROD: And I would like the President to be a role model for my
sons. I don't want the President to be on a tape saying the kind of things --
LORD: Was Bill Clinton a role model?
AXELROD: I didn't know he was running for president.
DOYLE: I couldn't agree more. I've been saying this all day. What do we say to our sons, Corey, when they see this videotape?
BORGER: Don't be like that.
DOYLE: And when Donald Trump dismisses it as locker room banter?
LEWANDOWSKI: Are we here to talk about the debate performance tonight or a videotape? Because if we're here to talk about the debate performance, let's talk about what that was. Let's talk about the fact that fact-check --
[00:20:05] TAPPER: We're airing the debate -- we're airing clips in the debate in which this was discussed.
LEWANDOWSKI: Right. Let's fact-check Hillary Clinton is in favor of increasing the Syrian refugee in this country 550 percent. Fact-check -- accurate.
LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, it is. She wants from 10,000 to 55,000. Fact- check --
TAPPER: Oh, yes.
GERGEN: What we were arguing about was about the ISIS question. The question was whether ISIS is more important than his personal character. That's the issue we were talking about.
LEWANDOWSKI: ISIS is cutting people's heads off and killing Americans. Yes this is more important. The number one job of the President of the United States is to keep our --
BORGEN: Corey --
TAPPER: Just one second.
What is your response when you heard this video on Friday? What was your reaction?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I was on TV saying, I've already done this. I've already said it, my recommendation would be Donald Trump goes out and has a sit-down interview and discusses exactly what's going on and what was said on this tape. That's what my recommendation would have been.
TAPPER: He didn't do that.
LEWANDOWSKI: I don't work for the campaign.
TAPPER: I know. I know. I'm just saying, what was your personal reaction?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look --
TAPPER: What did you feel when you heard the tape? We all had a reaction. We all instinctively --
LEWANDOWSKI: That's right. My reaction is this. That's what's said in a locker room. I've been in a lot of locker rooms --
LEWANDOWSKI: Absolutely. Look, guys, don't kid yourself -- don't kid yourself. If you don't think there are terms --
JONES: Nobody brags -- people --
LEWANDOWSKI: You're telling me there are not words used in a locker room that you wouldn't use talking to your mother?
JONES: Profanity -- those are two different things. Profanity all the time. But bragging sexual assault.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's not what he said.
JONES: He said he grabs them by the p word -- that is an assault, sir.
LEWANDOWSKI: Ok. It didn't happen.
JONES: So he's lying about it. Now he's --
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, you want to talk about lying. Look, if we want to talk about lying --
JONES: He's lying about assault --
LEWANDOWSKI: Hillary Clinton has lied about 33,000 e-mails. She refuses to turn them over. That's a fact. She says she has a private persona, she has a private persona. That's a fact. She says she's for open borders and for 18 months of this campaign she says she's not for open borders.
AXELROD: You're doing now --
LEWANDOWSKI: I'm discussing the issues.
AXELROD: Calm down a second. You're doing --
AXELROD: Calm down just one second. You're doing right now what Donald Trump tried to do in the debate, which is rather than really address this in a genuine way and get to the core of why it troubles people, he tried to switch the topic really quickly.
LEWANDOWSKI: They care about issues --
BORGER: People care about both of these things.
TAPPER: When you talk about those poor women you're talking about the same topic.
BORGER: People care about both of these things. Women care about issues and they care about sexual assault and men care about both.
LEWANDOWSKI: That was never committed.
BORGER: Right. But now he's saying he lied about it. Ok, so that's fine.
LEWANDOWSKI: So Hillary Clinton's lying --
LEWANDOWSKI: Let's move on. What's next?
BORGER: Let me --
TAPPER: Gloria is talking.
BORGER: The thing that I think in thinking about this debate a bit, I think that the place where I was left thinking about Hillary Clinton in this and her reaction to this is by having that stunt in the afternoon before the debate.
LEWANDOWSKI: What stunt?
BORGER: What they did --
LEWANDOWSKI: What stunt? Sexually --
BORGER: What they did was a side show done after the videotape, an hour and a half --
LEWANDOWSKI: Did they --
BORGER: Can I finish? LEWANDOWSKI: No, it's not a stunt at all.
JONES: Just let her finish.
TAPPER: The event --
LEWANDOWSKI: No, it's a pejorative term --
TAPPER: Can she finish please? The event --
LEWANDOWSKI: And it's not fair. Well, it's different.
TAPPER: I just changed the words so she can continue her sentence. The event, please --
BORGER: I'm almost forgetting what I was going to say.
TAPPER: You were talking about --
BORGER: About Hillary. The thing that that did was kind of put Hillary Clinton in a cocoon in a way where she flew at 30,000 feet. And you might have liked to hear her say, and I know her campaign was committed to this and I talked to them before the debate, that she wasn't going to go down there.
But the outrage that a lot of us felt about that videotape would have been interesting to hear her voice. And she couldn't voice it because she didn't want to get down there and because of her husband's past history. So, I think in a way there was a sense that she had to fly and couldn't address it directly.
DOYLE: Although --
BORGER: And so she didn't address it directly.
DOYLE: It was very good.
BORGER: She broadened it. She broadened it, but she didn't say how dare you do that. That's awful.
LORD: I find it astonishing that bringing three -- four women, whatever it is, one of whom is a victim of rape is somehow a stunt. What was a --
BORGER: I think the timing of it. I think the timing --
LORD: What was Alicia Machado? What was Alicia Machado?
TAPPER: Definitely a stunt.
LORD: Definitely a stunt.
BORGER: Wait a minute. Definitely a stunt.
BORGER: Donald Trump could have done this at any time, but this occurred after the videotape. And it occurred after the videotape for a reason.
LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what Hillary Clinton's foreign policy spokesman said tonight on Twitter. I'm sure you saw this. "Donald Trump, go f yourself." Is that getting into the gutter? Is that going high when you go low?
BORGER: I don't speak for anybody other than myself.
LEWANDOWSKI: Where is the response from the Clinton campaign? Where is the apology for that?
TAPPER: I think he apologized.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's mighty nice of him after he put it on Twitter during the debate.
TAPPER: I'm going to throw it to Wolf right now. Wolf -- back to you.
BLITZER: All right. Guys -- thanks very much.
David Chalian is going to give us some more results from the instant poll.
But first I want to get a reality check. Tom Foreman and Phil Mattingly are looking at some of the statements that were made in this debate tonight. Tom Foreman -- first to you.
[00:25:03] TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi -- Wolf.
Donald Trump wanted Hillary Clinton to answer about that e-mail situation and the private server she had in her home doing public business.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You get a subpoena and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails. And then you acid wash them.
CLINTON: Everything he just said is absolutely false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Well, the number is actually 32,000. But this is something that the FBI did look at. And this is essentially what they found. That in December of 2014 there was a contractor who was handling the server in her house and the e-mails. And he was told by the Clinton team to go ahead and delete what they thought were a lot of personal e-mails -- or what they said were personal e-mails. The contractor told the FBI that he forgot to delete those e-mails.
Then in March of the coming year, congress did subpoena her over this e-mail business. And that's when the contractor said he made a second mistake and then he did delete the e-mails even though he'd been told not to.
Now, many people out there may look at this and say, I see the hand of the Clinton camp here. I don't believe for a minute that's how it happened. But the FBI looked into it. The FBI did not find signs of collusion, not enough to make it a crime and it would have been a crime if there had been collusion. That makes Donald Trump's claim about this false. We can only base it on what the FBI said.
Now, listen to what she said about the whole issue of e-mails.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: After a year-long investigation, there is no evidence that anyone hacked the server I was using and there is no evidence that anyone can point to at all, anyone who says otherwise has no basis, that any classified material ended up in the wrong hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Well, the FBI did look at it a long time and, remember, famously the FBI director said that Clinton was extremely careless with this information. She said herself that it was a mistake. She's had a lot of shifting positions at the beginning about what she did or did not do.
On the narrow point about whether or not this information was hacked, the FBI said there were attempts to hack but they could find no information -- any indication that any hackers got through and got to that information. So on that narrow point, what she said was true -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Tom Foreman, thank you.
Phil Mattingly, you have been doing some fact checking. You've got a reality check for us as well.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right -- Wolf.
It wouldn't be a political debate if we weren't at some point talking Obamacare. So here's the clip.
Donald Trump says the Affordable Care Act has premiums that are skyrocketing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When I watch the deals being made, when I watch what's happening with some horrible things like Obamacare where your health insurance and health care is going up by numbers that are astronomical, 68 percent, 59 percent, 71 percent --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Big numbers -- right? Very big numbers. Here is the claim. Donald Trump is saying that health insurance premiums are going up at, quote, astronomical levels. All right. Let's take a look at that.
There are -- those numbers do reflect the increases of some insurers. But on average, insurers have requested an average rate hike of 9 percent for the benchmark plan in 2017. That's up 2 percent from 2016. There's an increase, that's according to Kaizer Family Foundation.
Now, here's the other issue. There's a catch. The vast majority of Americans don't actually see the full effect of those hikes. Why? Approximately 85 percent receive federal subsidies.
So what's the verdict? It's clear. The numbers that Trump picked out are far from normal, but it's also clear that the Affordable Care Act is leading insurers to increased premiums, both anecdotally and on average. So while there is some gray area here, we'll rate this true but misleading.
And we've been digging into all this stuff all night. So, be sure to check out all of our reality checks. Go to CNN.com/realitycheck -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Phil Mattingly -- thank you. Tom Foreman -- thanks to you as well. David Chalian -- you've got the instant poll results. We're going through them. You have some more fascinating information.
CHALIAN: Right. So we looked at that big number, who won the debate. We know it was 57-34, Clinton-Trump. How does it split by gender? Take a look at this. Who won the debate? This is among debate watchers, slightly more Democratic-leaning audience. Take a look here.
Hillary Clinton won among men by 11 points, 49 percent to 38 percent. But look at her victory in the debate among women -- obviously, a central issue, 64 percent to 30 percent -- a 34-point victory there among women.
We also asked who spent more time attacking their opponent. By far debate watchers said Donald Trump did that. 68 percent of debate watchers said he spent more time attacking Hillary Clinton. 16 percent Clinton attacked Donald Trump. And both of them attacked their opponent, 15 percent of debate watchers said that.
BLITZER: This poll was of debate watchers. Is there any indication that the negativity of this debate effectively changed viewers' minds about either of these candidates?
[00:30:05] CHALIAN: Well, as you know, Wolf, these are the two most unpopular candidates we've ever seen in our political history running for president against each other. So it's tough for them to go lower. And they didn't really hear it. Didn't really change. We looked at before and after, favorable and unfavorable. Before the debate, Hillary Clinton was at 53 percent favorable, 45 percent unfavorable. And now look at those numbers there. After the debate, 55 percent favorable, 44 percent unfavorable. Didn't really change.
Donald Trump, same story. Before the debate, he was 34 percent favorable, 64 percent unfavorable. And take a look there at the building, after the debate, 34 percent favorable, 64 percent unfavorable. His numbers did not move at all.
They are both still far more unfavorable than favorable in the eyes of these debate watchers.
BLITZER: Very interesting, indeed. You can see more of results from our CNN/ORC instant poll in CNN politics app powered by CNN technologies.
Download the CNN Politics app to always know who's winning and why.
Dana, are you surprised? Are you surprised by the results we just heard?
BASH: Not really. I think that they kind of aren't keeping with our broad analysis tonight.
I think what is probably the least surprising is the point that you made is that these are two incredibly unpopular candidates. And how many people have you all run into just even in your lives, your everyday lives, not in our work, normal civilians, as I like to call them, saying, I can't believe these are our two choices.
BLITZER: Stand by, everyone.
Coming up, did this debate help undecided voters actually make up their minds? We're going to check back with our focus group from the battleground state of Ohio.
How will they vote after watching all the attacks and the counterattacks tonight.
[00:36:00] BLITZER: We're back here on the beautiful campus of Washington University in St. Louis.
There was a split between men and women in our focus group of undecided voters. I want to go back to Pamela Brown. She's in Columbus, Ohio, a key battleground state.
Pamela, let's listen to one moment from Donald Trump that men -- I like to remind you -- men's reactions are in green, women in yellow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I didn't think I'd say this, but I'm going to say it, and I hate to say it. But if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, Pamela, so what did the focus group think of that?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there was several gender divides throughout the debate, Wolf. And as you saw, there was a big spike among men when Donald Trump mentioned that.
So let's find out why. I want to ask you, Ralph. Why did that argument resonate with you when Donald Trump talked about appointing a special prosecutor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she should be held accountable for her actions. Deleting that many e-mails, there has to be something incriminating in those emails. I feel that they are.
BROWN: And you were looking for him to address that tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BROWN: And I want to ask you, Paul, because you also say that that was a strong argument for Donald Trump to bring up. Why so?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was a strong argument because I don't believe Hillary has been held accountable fairly from the FBI or the Department of Justice for those transgressions or potential transgressions.
And I feel like people in the military and people in public life, other people would have been held more accountable than she has to this point. So that, at least to my opinion, to the public has been missing, is that, you know level of fairness and equality.
BROWN: And there was a moment where Hillary Clinton did particularly well among women.
Let's take a listen to that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: This is not an ordinary time, and this is not an ordinary election. We are going to be choosing a president who will set policy for not just four or eight years, but because of some of the important decisions we have to make here at home and around the world, from the Supreme Court to energy and so much else. And so there is a lot at stake. It's one of the most consequential elections that we've had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, I'm going to go up to Haley. Why did that resonate with you so much when Hillary Clinton made those comments?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that what she was saying that this is a unique election, it's unlike any other year. It's because we're going to be selecting a Supreme Court justice, because the fate of the world is in the hands of what we do in an energy crisis at this point. Looking at foreign issues specifically, Syria. I think she's absolutely right. Hit the nail on the head with that. And I agree with her.
BROWN: And, Nicole, you really felt like she related to you in that moment when she said, look, we're in a different election right now. This is a different time. Why so?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we all feel it. There's a big difference in this election than any other before. Everybody here is aware of it. Everybody I know is aware of it. And we talk about it.
I don't remember a time in all my life where I have discussed the presidential debates or the presidential election more than this one. There's something fundamentally different. Our life is going to change here. It's just a matter of how.
BROWN: And so on that note, the big question after watching this debate, have any of you all decided who you're going to vote for come November?
So I want to get a show of hands after watching tonight's debate, who is going to vote for Hillary Clinton come November.
And who decided after tonight, they're going to vote for Donald Trump come November? OK.
And how about Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, raise your hand if you decided you're going to vote for them.
You seem like you're waffling a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still undecided.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry.
BROWN: OK. So, on that note, who is still undecided in this group? All right.
So, as you see, and many of the people we spoke to, Wolf, have said that they want to watch the next debate before they make their final decision. Some are leaning one way or the other, but they want to see that last and final debate before deciding who they're going to vote for in the booth.
Back to you.
[00:40:15] BLITZER: And that will be at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas. That's coming up.
All right, thanks very much. Jake, back to you.
TAPPER: All right, I'm here with our panel.
One of the more interesting moments of the debate was when Donald Trump distanced himself from a position expressed by his running mate, Governor Mike Pence of Indiana, when it came to the response that the United States should have to Russia's aggression in Syria.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA RADDATZ, DEBATE MODERATOR: What would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo? And I want to remind you what your running mate said. He said provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength and that if Russia continues to be involved in air strikes along with the Syrian government forces of Assad, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets of the Assad regime.
TRUMP: OK. He and I haven't spoken, and I disagree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Corey, an odd moment. I don't think I've ever seen a running mate be distanced during a debate before.
LEWANDOWSKI: Spiked him like a football.
I think Kellyanne Conway addressed this just earlier in a broadcast. And she said that Mr. Pence and Mr. Trump have talked many times this week, but hadn't talk about this particular issue and Mr. Trump has a different opinion. I think Kellyanne laid that out very earlier for the listeners earlier.
TAPPER: But I guess the larger point is that this isn't a this week issue, the role of Russia in Syria and what the response should be to the United States.
Did Pence go off the reservation last week? Or is this indicative of some other issue between Trump and Pence?
LEWANDOWSKI: It sounds to me, and I have no inner knowledge that the two of them haven't had a conversation about this. They've talked about a lot of things. Mike Pence had a great debate on Tuesday. And the same question was asked of Donald Trump today. Donald Trump had a different answer. Donald Trump is the top of the ticket. His answer is the one that stands forward --
AXELROD: Corey, let me ask you a question. Knowing him as you do, because you have expertise in Donald Trump that none of us have. Knowing him as you do, is it like him to watch a debate, hear his running mate take a position on something significant, much different than his and present it as the Trump/Pence position, and then just never mention it to him?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, look, I think it's like when Tim Kaine talks about taxpayer-funded abortion, right? He and Hillary Clinton have a very different position on this.
Now does that mean they agree on every single issue? No, they don't.
Are they going to not be running mates any longer? Because --
AXELROD: No, of course, no. But I suspect they probably talked about that at the front end when he appointed her. You know, that's a long- standing position.
LEWANDOWSKI: I understand. But Tim Kaine's position -- Tim Kaine's for taxpayer-funded abortion is that he's opposed to it. Hillary Clinton is in favor of it. Does that mean that all running agree on every issue, of course, they don't.
TAPPER: All right. Coming up, another "Reality Check" on what we heard tonight.
And we want to know, did the debate change your vote? Go to CNN.com/vote to tell us. We'll have the results coming up. Stay with us.
[00:46:50] BLITZER: We want to know, did the debate change your vote? Go to CNN.com/vote to tell us. We're going to have the results. That's coming up.
I want to do another "Reality Check," right now. Tom Foreman, Phil Mattingly are standing by. They are doing some fact-checking for us.
Tom Foreman, first to you. What did you find out?
FOREMAN: Hi, Wolf.
Donald Trump says that Hillary Clinton essentially wants to allow a flood of Syrian refugees to come into America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are going to areas like Syria where they're coming in by the tens of thousands because of Barack Obama. And Hillary Clinton wants to allow a 550 percent increase over Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Well, the concern here for Donald Trump and other Republicans is that if you let a whole bunch of Syrian refugees come in here with all the turmoil in their country, maybe you have some terrorists that come slipping in with them.
Now, the State Department insists that they have some of the most extensive vetting of these people. Homeland security as well saying to know who they are as best they can and sort it all out, but they are subjected to more stringent investigation than almost any other immigrants. And Hillary says she and her team would continue doing that.
However, last September she did say this, "I would like to see us move from what is a good start with 10,000 immigrants admitted to 65,000."
So, his math is correct there. He's got it right on that front. And that makes his claim true.
BLITZER: All right, Tom, thank you.
Phil, what about you? What have you found out?
MATTINGLY: Well, Wolf, we wanted to look at one specific thing. At issue, Donald Trump in a tweet about a sex tape. Now, this was one that happened between Trump and Miss Universe that he was feuding with on social media.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In the days after the first debate, you sent out a series of tweets from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m., including one that told people to check out a sex tape. Is that the discipline of a good leader?
TRUMP: No, there wasn't check out a sex tape. It was just take a look at the person that she built up to be this wonderful Girl Scout who was no Girl Scout.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: So, the Clinton here is crystal clear. Donald Trump says he never told anyone to check out a sex tape. Well, here are some facts. Twitter is an interesting, and you could say, stubborn medium. It has a way of preserving the things you tweet, all 140 characters for all to see.
So at 5:30 a.m. on September 30th as the back and forth between Trump and the former Miss Universe was raging. Trump tweeted this, "Did crooked Hillary help disgusting check out sex tape and past, Alicia M. become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?"
Yes, a lot to unpack there in a 140 characters. But on the issue itself at hand, it couldn't be clear. Donald Trump in a tweet, that is still on his account, did in fact call on his followers, quote, "Check out a sex tape."
So on this claim, we rate it false. Now, obviously, we've all been digging into a number of different issues, Wolf, and you know that. So, please, for all of tonight's "Reality Checks" go to CNN.com/RealityCheck.
BLITZER: Phil, thank you very much. Phil Mattingly and Tom Foreman, appreciate it.
Our political director David Chalian has got more numbers now from our exclusive "CNN/ORC" instant poll.
What else are you finding out?
[00:50:00] CHALIAN: So, Wolf, we tested a bunch of issues and a bunch of candidate attributes. And I just want to say how convincing in this poll among debate watchers, Hillary Clinton's victory was because she won on every issue and every attribute.
We picked a couple to show you. So take a look at, "Who would better handle the economy?"
Remember, this is way poll of debate watchers tonight. It did skew a little more Democratic in the makeup of the debate-watching audience. But that is a big, big victory on a major issue, the economy.
56 percent say Clinton won, 42 percent say that Donald Trump could better handle the economy.
Now how about the issue of temperament. It has been a key issue in this campaign. And Clinton is winning this argument big time. 64 percent of debate watchers say that she has the temperament to serve as president. 27 percent of the debate watchers say Donald Trump has the temperament to serve as president.
BLITZER: So what does this mean for the overall results tonight?
CHALIAN: That's right. So if she's winning across every issue and every attribute, she clearly won the debate overall among these debate watchers. So, look, this is our top-line results.
Again, who won the debate, Hillary Clinton, 57 percent of debate watchers say she won the debate; 34 percent of debate watchers said Donald Trump won the debate.
And then, of course, one of the key questions, the campaigns look for, Wolf, who did the debate make you more likely to vote for?
Take a look at the results there. On that building on campus here at Wash U. 25 percent say they are more likely to vote for Clinton because of the debate, 21 percent say they are more likely to vote for Trump because of the debate. But a majority, 53 percent, a slim majority here, say the debate did not make them want to vote for either one of them. They were not swayed into one camp or the other because of the debate.
BLITZER: Interesting numbers, indeed.
All right. To our viewers, you can see more of the results from our "CNN/ORC" instant poll and the "CNN Politics" app. I recommend that you do that.
Dana, these numbers are fascinating.
BASH: We just talk about how cool that was to have them on the side of the building.
BLITZER: Very cool.
CHALIAN: Pretty awesome.
BASH: I think -- anyway, sorry. In terms of the content. They are fascinating, but not surprising in terms of -- fascinating still about the final number that you put out there.
Still the majority say we don't really like either of these guys. It didn't change our vote either way, because there was more substance in this debate, I think, than in the first one, but so much of it at the beginning was just them going at each other.
You're worse. No, you're worse. No, you're worse. No, you're worse. No, you're worse.
KING: But she leads. She leads with 30 days or 29 days now. We've passed the midnight threshold here in the east, although we're in the Midwest. About to pass it here in the Midwest.
But she leads coming in. So if more than half say it doesn't change their vote, then that it's roughly split between the ones who are more likely to vote for her, more likely to vote Trump, that's a win for her in a sense that he needs to change the fundamental dynamic of the race.
And, again, this is just debate watchers. But if she wins in the broader public on who would best handle the economy, then who has the best temperament to be president, game over.
So, Donald Trump -- you know, Donald Trump, his team is very cheered by tonight. Conservatives are cheered by tonight. He has to bend the strategic arc of this race and it doesn't look like he did that tonight.
BLITZER: He solidify his base. He got that bleeding stop, but the question is did he get some undecided voters to come in?
Coming up, we're going to take a closer look ahead to the third and final presidential debate.
What do Trump and Clinton need to accomplish after their brawl tonight?
[00:57:10] TAPPER: Tonight, we asked you to go to CNN.com and tell us, did the debate change your vote?
Here are the results. 18 percent said yes, 82 percent said no. All right, interesting. The third and final presidential debate is only ten days from now at UNLV in Las Vegas and CNN's campaign camper is parked behind our set in the quad of Wash U right now.
Tonight our team will start the drive to Las Vegas, stopping along the way to hear from you, the voters. You can see some of the photos that people at CNN in partnership with Instagram, Facebook and CA Technologies have met so far.
A cornucopia of Americana posts a photo on Instagram with #MyVote and tell us for whom you are voting. Your picture could be a part of our election coverage.
Let's get a couple of final thoughts, Van Jones.
JONES: Well, this is my score card for Trump. He minimized sexual assault. He threatened to jail Hillary Clinton. He praised Assad and Putin. He trashed Pence. He promoted Islamophobia. And it was his best day in a week. That's Donald Trump.
TAPPER: Let me first say I want to thank the host of the debate tonight here at the university. It's been phenomenal and the grounds have been fantastic.
And I also think that tonight, you know, Donald Trump talked about some of the issues that the American people have really want to talk about, which is the e-mails, the Syrian refugees, the private Hillary Clinton, the public Hillary Clinton, you know the truth.
The fact that she's been in Washington for 30 years. The fact that she was a U.S. senator and never changed the tax code. The fact that her biggest donors are the single largest owner of Wells Fargo Bank, which has been a complete and utter disaster in the last two weeks or three weeks in all the scandal they've been involved with.
So, look, I think those are the issues that the American people want to talk about. I think he raised those tonight. And I think in the next debate, hopefully, we'll have more of a discussion on the issues because at that point we'll be two weeks away from the election.
TAPPER: And, Gloria, where do we go from here?
BORGER: Got me.
AXELROD: It sounds like Vegas.
TAPPER: You know, metaphorically.
BORGER: The old adage "Overnight -- Overnight's a lifetime in politics." Well, in this race, overnight is a lifetime. And we've seen that. And the last 48 hours have been stunning. And we've got how long before the next debate?
TAPPER: 10 days.
BORGER: Who knows what's going to happen between now and then. We have people who watched this debate, didn't really help them decide one way or another, according to our poll.
LORD: Those people in Philadelphia, they are still waiting.
AXELROD: Well, it speaks of that attitudes are hardened. It's going to be hard to move a lot. So these things that we think are defining events often aren't defining events. This race hasn't changed much tonight.
HENDERSON: Yes, Donald Trump is essentially treading water. He's standing still. And that doesn't help him because he's behind.
GERGEN: We'll have to see in the next day or two what Republicans do in response to this. Do they get in line now with Trump? Or is there still a rebellion? And that could be very important.
I think we'll be watching Michael Pence and seeing how close he really is.
TAPPER: All right.
GERGEN: I think this was a missed opportunity in many ways for Donald Trump.
TAPPER: If you missed any of the debate earlier this evening, you can see it in its entirety right now.