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New CNN/ORC Poll: Clinton Leads Trump By 5; Trump Campaigns in Swing-State Florida; Elizabeth Warren Revs Up "Nasty Women" for Clinton; ?; Trump On Accusers: "All Of These Liars Will Be Sued"; How N.Y. Times Could Benefit From Trump Lawsuit; Up Close With Trump's Campaign Manager. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 24, 2016 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:11] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

Two weeks and a day until the election, and the voting is well under way, in person, early voting kicking off today in Florida. Donald Trump is wrapping a live event right now in Tampa. He's been crisscrossing the state, mixing what sounds like his closing argument with long running grievances about the polls, the media, the rigged system and all the rest. He says he thinks he's winning.

New CNN/ORC polling shows otherwise.

CNN "INSIDE POLITICS" anchor John King is here to lay it out by the numbers.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, our new numbers show a tighter national race than other national polls but still a lead for Secretary Clinton heading into the stretch.

Let's pop up the numbers: 49 percent to 44 percent among likely vote us in our new CNN/ORC poll. An ABC poll over the weekend had it ad at 12. Well, we have it at five. So, the Trump campaign will be encouraged by that. But I'll get to the "buts" in a minute.

But 49 to 44, notably the third party candidate dropping a bit as we get closer to Election Day. That's fairly typical. So, a five-point advantage among likely voters in our national. Let's take a look at some of the reasons why.

One, the gender question always prominent in this race. And these numbers actually make the Clinton campaign happy. Yes, Donald Trump is winning nothing men, just barely. Hillary Clinton is trying to make history as the first woman president, 53-41, a 12-point advantage gender gap if you will among women voters. This is advantage, Clinton, especially if you remember, come Election Day in the general election, 53 percent of the voting public will be women.

Another reason we talked about before here, this persistent education gap in the race for president. Mitt Romney won white voters last time including white college educated voters, but Hillary Clinton, the Democrat, is winning white voters with a college degree by 12 points in our new poll -- 11 points, excuse me. That's an advantage for Clinton.

Heading into the end, though, Donald Trump, look at this, the foundation of Trump support, white voters without a college degree, a whopping 30-point lead on that question. One of the reasons this is not a total blowout nationally.

We didn't just ask voters who they're voting for, we asked them why. And again, a five-point national lead, not a total blowout. One of the reasons it's not bigger than that, who would best handle the economy? Donald Trump still wins on that question by four points.

But, on the other big issues, Hillary just a little bit on terrorism, just a bit on immigration. What has her campaign been about, saying he's erratic, unfit, temperamentally not fit to be president of the United States. The voters agree, by nearly 30 points she wince on the question of which candidate has the best temperament to be president. She also wins by 15 points when voters are asked, which of these two do you trust to be commander in chief?

So, she' winning on the qualification for the job, if you will, even though she trails a bit on the economy.

The biggest question of all, Anderson, anything in the new national numbers to change this? CNN electoral map that shows Hillary Clinton with a lopsided advantage. Anyway in the new poll to change? The answer is no.

There's some reasons to say Donald Trump's Republican support is coming back, maybe that will help him out here in the west where he's struggling. There's also good reasons for secretary Clinton. She leads when we asked voters in the Midwest to pick their choice for president. She leads also when asked voters out west to ask who they'd pick for president.

So, when you look at our national numbers and this map -- a tighter race than some organizations have it in their polling, still advantage Clinton. But when you go state by state, lopsided advantage Clinton -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. John, thanks very much.

Donald Trump as we said just finished a big rally. His very first words at it after thanking supporters was to point to a different poll showing him in the lead. We should say the survey from "Investors Business Daily" does not meet our standards for transparency.

CNN's Jim Acosta is in Tampa and joins us now.

So, Trump spending a lot of time in Florida obviously this week. He definitely needs to win there. What's the latest tonight?


Donald Trump just wrapped up his remarks here at Tampa right around us at this moment, we just want to point out we have a small group of Donald Trump supporters screaming at us saying all sorts of different things. I'm going to try to get through this.

But basically Donald Trump continued his attacks on the news media. Earlier today, he described reporters covering his rallies as crooks and thieves. Later on at this rally, he said, "The media is not only running against me, they're running against you." He went on to say the media does not care about hardworking people.

So, it's been a steady drumbeat of just raising the rhetoric, raising up this rhetoric against the national news media, Anderson. There's one reason why he is not happy, obviously with where the polls are right now. Earlier today, he said these polls, quote, "dark polls", he said designed to suppress the vote. Basically to encourage people to stay home because they think Donald Trump is going to lose, and he used that argument again tonight here in Tampa.

COOPER: And Trump may be saying he's winning but his campaign manager this weekend did seem to acknowledge Trump was behind, didn't she?

ACOSTA: That's right, earlier today, Donald Trump was saying that he was winning, but Kellyanne Conway, his campaign manager, said on "Meet the Press" yesterday, we are running behind. But then earlier today, Anderson, on CNN, Jason Miller, the senior communications adviser, said, oh, no, no, Kellyanne Conway was talking about fund-raising.

[20:05:02] But, Anderson, if you go back to that transcript from "Meet the Press", she was asked about how they're doing in the polls and she acknowledged as is the case right now that they are running behind. I have to point out right now, Anderson we've been seeing this at on a routine basis at the Donald Trump rallies. He's been ramping up the rhetoric against the news media. We're seeing an increasing level of hostility against us, the media covering his campaign.

A man right now holding a sign that says "Trump sucks" right next to me. Earlier tonight, a woman jabbed with her "Trump for President" sign. I can't imagine another couple weeks of this. It's more getting intense.

COOPER: All right. Jim Acosta -- Jim, thank you very much. We do appreciate it.

Now, Hillary Clinton who's putting a good deal of her campaign emergency into down-ticket races. And what some worry might be overconfidence, others see a sign of real strength. She's extending her coattails to Senate candidates, and trying to take advantage of the one senator who's been known for getting under Donald Trump's skin.

More on that now from our Brianna Keilar.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary Clinton making a campaign swing through New Hampshire.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are more than our disagreements, we Americans. There are so much more that unites us than divides us.

KEILAR: And she's got help from liberal darling Elizabeth Warren, senator from neighboring Massachusetts who took aim at Donald Trump for this remark at the last debate.


SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: He thinks because he has a mouth full of Tic Tacs that he can force himself on any woman within groping distance.

I got news for you, Donald Trump. Women have had it with guys like you. Nasty women are tough. Nasty women are smart. And nasty women vote.

KEILAR: But for many Americans, Election Day has come and gone. According to an analysis from Catalyst by CNN, 5.5 million votes have already been cast across the U.S.

As Clinton and her campaign are feeling confident about her path to the White House, she is focusing more on helping Democrats take back the Senate, campaigning here in the Granite State with Maggie Hassan who is leading in the polls as she looks to unseat incumbent Republican Kelly Ayotte.

CLINTON: Unlike her opponent, she has never been afraid to stand up to Donald Trump. She knows he shouldn't be a role model for our kids or for anybody else, for that matter.

KEILAR: It's a familiar refrain Clinton is using. Over the weekend in North Carolina, she rallied voters for Deborah Ross as she tries to take on Senator Richard Burr.

CLINTON: Unlike her opponent, Deborah has never been afraid to stand up to Donald Trump, because she knows he's wrong for North Carolina.

KEILAR: Clinton is steadily moving her focus beyond Donald Trump, upping her planning for what she believes will be her transition to the presidency, a source close to Clinton tells CNN. But Clinton denies she's getting ahead of herself.

CLINTON: You know, I'm a little superstitious about that. We've got a transition operation going, and I haven't really paid much attention to it yet because I want to focus on what our first task is, and that is convincing as my Americans as possible to give us the chance to serve.


COOPER: Brianna joins us now.

What are you hearing from the campaign? I mean, how confident is she going to the final two weeks of the campaign?

KEILAR: You know, they're saying that every vote matters, of course, but there's a lot of confidence that we're hearing from the Clinton campaign. They need to be careful they don't count their chickens before they hatch, specifically we're talking about people in the middle of the political spectrum who don't want to vote for Donald Trump and don't really want to vote for Hillary Clinton. They could become complacent if they think they don't have to vote for Hillary Clinton in order to vote against Donald Trump.

But it's just so clear the confidence as she is heading out to help all of these down-ballot Democrats. That's what really tells you where they're at.

COOPER: And, Brianna, this new report that came out today saying that Obamacare premiums will be going up an average of 22 percent next year. That's going to make things more difficult for Clinton considering how closely she's tied her campaign to its supposed success.

KEILAR: That's right. Politically, this is not good for Hillary Clinton or for President Obama, but here's the bottom line as we see it. I think it's important for people to understand, 22 percent increase in the next year in premiums on -- through Obamacare. These are the plans bought on the exchange. It was 7 percent last year. So that is a jump.

Now, most people because they get subsidies on the exchange actually aren't going to feel that increase, but still, this is a sizable, the overall cost of the program is big. It's getting bigger and the big issue is choice. There's a number of states going into next year where people may go on the exchange to get a plan and they're only going to have one insurance company to choose from about a handful of states.

COOPER: All right. Brianna Keilar, appreciate it.

Let's bring in our panel. Clinton supporters Jonathan Tasini and Christine Quinn. "New York Times" political correspondent Patrick Healy is here. Also, Trump supporters Jeffrey Lord and Scottie Nell Hughes.

[20:10:00] Patrick, you see the polling. Donald Trump says he's going to win. They see a path.

I mean, is -- do you see what he's saying?

PATRICK HEALY, NEW YORK TIMES POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He's in trouble and they know it. They are basing a lot of these assumptions on Arizona being a solid Trump state. Nevada coming through. Perhaps New Hampshire coming through. Certainly Ohio and Florida coming through.

And talking to people inside the Trump campaign, they acknowledge that they need that economy argument to really cut their way in the last two weeks.

COOPER: That seems to be the only thing in which he's leading.

HEALY: The only thing he's leading and, you know, in Trump's favor here, 91 percent of people in the CNN poll said that the economy is still very important or important to them. He has an argument to make there. He could tie in something like the Obamacare premium, you know, into that argument. The problem is that, you have Donald Trump coming out today saying that the latest accuser against him of unwanted advances is a porn star and bad mouthing her.

The last two weeks, Donald Trump needs to be focusing on that economic argument. It's the best one for him, but as we've seen for the last year and a half, his ability to get in his own way is still there.

COOPER: Jeffrey, I mean, even this weekend, at the -- you know, Gettysburg address which was outline his first 100 days, he spent a fair amount of time talking about going -- suing these women accusers.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I think what he's trying to do is here is tie all this together, that all of this gets back to a culture of corruption, if you will. There's an ad that I found very interesting. I mean, I think 15 days out, if we learned nothing else, the last year and a half, is that things can change on a dime.

There's television ad by a group called America's Worth It. It never mentions Donald Trump. What it does is attack Hillary Clinton as the queen of corruption and ties her to -- their words, not mine -- liberal media bosses. That is part in parcel of the Trump attack, and so --

COOPER: But at a major policy address that you said this is going to be my 100 days, the big-ticket item initially to be I'm going to sue all these women --

LORD: I understand. There's two ways of looking at this, Anderson. I confess, that was my first reaction. But the second reaction is if you're tying all of this in --

COOPER: Once you get a couple lines.

LORD: What's ahead of it, three or four.

COOPER: OK. All right.

LORD: Once you tie this all in, it's all -- it's all tied together. Today in Pennsylvania --


LORD: Wait, wait --

COOPER: Let him finish.

LORD: Today in Pennsylvania, the former Democratic attorney general of Pennsylvania was sentenced to jail for corruption. Now, I'm just saying that this kind of thing makes a difference and that's what he's trying to point out.

CHRISTINE QUINN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So he's trying to wrap it up in a culture of corruption, but if you listen to what Anderson said, he raised how he stepped on his message by continuing to bring up he's going to sue the women and now attacking the most recent accuser in an incredibly insensitive way by saying something to the effect of this isn't the first time she's been groped.

COOPER: He said, oh, I'm sure she's been grabbed before.

LORD: Did they have a connection to the Clinton campaign at all?

HEALY: The people he's appealing to the most are the people who are harassing him Acosta right now. Those are diehard Trump supporters who hear this and believe that sort of larger, you know, narrative --

LORD: Right.

HEALY: -- with the news media. But that's not getting whatever undecided voters are left or the soft Clinton supporters.

QUINN: These are his acts. This is not a conspiracy by the Clinton campaign. These are women who are accusing him of doing something.

COOPER: But let me ask you about the Obamacare premiums going up 22 percent. I mean, that -- had that happened during the primary, that would have been something that Bernie Sanders would have jumped all over. How bad is this for Hillary Clinton?

JONATHAN TASINI, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, Bernie Sanders and in progressives still believe that the only way to solve this is to have a single-payer Medicare for all system. I will point out Secretary Clinton has already now started talking about the public option as an alternative which is, frankly, what she needs to move to.

There's no question that the Obamacare -- the rising premiums are going to hurt people, but I think that for Donald Trump to make the argument and Republicans to make the argument they're the solution, they want to throw all the people who are covered by Obamacare off Obamacare so they won't have coverage and they would not preserve the pre-existing condition --

COOPER: Right. Trump claims he would preserve it but how much do you wish -- he hasn't shown how. How much do you wish this happened months ago, that this announcement was made?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Thank you for being honest. Absolutely, and thank you for finally being honest. I finally have someone admitting that the whole goal of Obamacare to put us on a single-payer system.

TASINI: No, no, I'm saying the opposite.

HUGHES: That's what the whole goal is.

May I finish now? Seventeen of the 23 exchanges are now out of business, gone bottom up. You're looking at, and this is not impacting those in urban areas. This is really impacting those people in the rural areas. You've got in Alabama right now, 71 percent of increases of most people on insurances, Oklahoma City is going to have the same kind of -- rural areas of Arizona, 116 percent, they're going to see their premiums --

TASINI: I just want to clarify something, though.

[20:15:00] HUGHES: That's the issues that are impacting America. You can talk about these other women.

COOPER: Jonathan?

TASINI: Obamacare was a substitute for inaction on the part of Republicans, period. Republicans did not want to change the current system which basically cost people their lives and left millions of people not covered.

HUGHES: That's not true.

TASINI: It is absolutely fact.

HUGHES: No, it is not.

TASINI: It is absolutely the fact. The second thing, what Obamacare tried to do was begin to go along the path, no question about it, to single-payer. I'm not embarrassed by it.

HUGHES: You should be.

TASINI: I think we have to have single-payer in this country. If we don't have Medicare for all single-payer, we will never solve the system. And every other major industrial country has a single payer.

COOPER: We've got to take a quick break. We're going to pick this up in a moment.

Later, as we' been discussing, I'll ask the Republican Party's top spokesman how Donald Trump squares his polling difficulties with women, with his continued statements about women and the women who are accusing him.

That's just ahead tonight on 360.


COOPER: Well, Donald Trump says he's winning most but not all polling, certainly most reputable polling says he's not. Some experts have said that if Trump were now to win, it would be the biggest polling failure since Dewey and Truman in 1948. As for Donald Trump, he's railing against more than just the polls.


TRUMP: Our system is rigged. Our system is rigged. She never had a chance of being convicted, even though everybody in this audience, and, boy, do we have a lot of people, everybody here knows that she's 100 percent guilty.


[20:20:13] COOPER: That was Donald Trump just moments ago.

Back with our panel.

I want to bring up the story from the "Wall Street Journal" because a lot of Republicans are pointing to it, ties a contribution from a PAC of a close Clinton ally, Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe, to the wife of the guy at the FBI who ended up being in charge of the investigation into the Clinton e-mail server. Basically implying there was a quid pro quo.

LORD: Right.

COOPER: How damaging do you think that is? Because it certainly fits into the narrative you guys want of --

LORD: Exactly.

COOPER: -- that this is --


LORD: That's exactly the point.

You know, Anderson, we look at these polls, let me just talk to Pennsylvania for a second. You know, depending on the poll he's behind by five, six, seven, eight, nine points, et cetera. I know you hate when I do anecdotes, but I'm going to call this an observation.


LORD: On Saturday when I had the day off, I took good old mom, put her in the car, got the Halloween pumpkin about 20 miles out in the countryside. There were Trump signs everywhere. I saw ones, one Hillary sign. Now, anecdotal, but I'm trying understand the polling data as, in relation to the --

COOPER: What you're seeing out there.

LORD: What I'm seeing on the ground. The last time I saw that much effort for one candidate was 2008, they were all Obama signs.

COOPER: Christine, this Terry McAuliffe story, this guy was not in charge of the investigation when the donation was made to his wife. He was later, I guess, elevated.

QUINN: Right.

COOPER: How serious do you think this is?

QUINN: Look, Terry McAuliffe is an intelligent guy. There's no way around that. He doesn't have some kind of ESP where he can figure out --

COOPER: He's a very close friend of the Clintons. QUINN: Yes, but he gave a donation in relevance to where somebody

was. I'm not saying he couldn't be so intelligent to see into the future to know where this gentleman was going to go. So, it has no connection --

LORD: But he was there.

QUINN: The gentleman was in one place and another job. He couldn't have possibly known. And, look, I don't disregard signs. They're a sign of enthusiasm.

But I got to tell you, anecdote to anecdote, I was in a restaurant today, a man came up to me and said I don't want to interrupt your lunch, but -- and his eyes welled up with tears, he said I wasn't sure what I was going to vote for, now as it's gone on and on, I think about my daughters.

COOPER: Like dueling banjo.

QUINN: Mine has a person, he just has signs.

COOPER: He didn't have any tears --

QUINN: Pumpkins, though.

COOPER: All right.

All right. One of them --


COOPER: But it is interesting, these polls -- I mean, the Trump people continue to say, look, these polls are just flat-out wrong.

HEALY: Right. And, look, we're going to know in two week. The problem is something like pay for play can have real damage, it can do real damage. But you have to start laying the groundwork for a pay- to-play argument months in advance in order for it to break through and people to understand it. Donald Trump, I remember when we talked last spring when he was trying to figure out what adjective to put onto Hillary Clinton's name, he was going for sort of low energy Hillary.

QUINN: Highbrow --

HEALY: Well, he went for crooked Hillary, but the thing is that pay for play, it's a complicated, you know, multilayered argument that just in the last two weeks, it's really very hard to --

HUGHES: But it's not the last two weeks. This is another chapter in the book of corruption, the Clinton corruption chronicles.


COOPER: But doesn't Donald Trump continue to just step on his message every step of the way? I mean -- seems like he cannot -- it seems like any other candidate would have been able to make a more coherent argument over, to Patrick's point, over months and months and months without having, you know, the headline this weekend being, I'm going to sue these women when I get into office.

HUGHES: But I think he has. I mean, let's look at it. We had Morocco this weekend. We had Ericsson. We had Saudi Arabia arms deal, we had --

COOPER: It was a 39-minute speech about 15 minutes --

HUGHES: No, actually I think it came out under two minutes were focused on women who were going to sue him. Ten minutes was background overall. The rest was about --

COOPER: Background overall?

HUGHES: Of the past. Everything dealing with all the scandal and media bias was ten minutes. He lumped it all together to Jeffrey's point.

COOPER: It was everything other than issues about his first 100 days.

HUGHES: I think it goes back to the idea, what is the media focusing on, what are they focusing on? What are the stories they're making their headlines be of?

They're not talking about the fact he wants to rid the swamp, he wants to put in term limits.


QUINN: By the way -- he's not talking about it --

HUGHES: The majority of it -- focusing on one line.


HEALY: The moment that I will never forget in this campaign, among many moments, was interviewing Donald Trump in his office the day after FBI Director Comey's report came out on the e-mail scandal in July and saying to Donald Trump, this is a gift, you know, you're going to be talking about this f| the next, you know, weeks and weeks and weeks.

And he said, I can talk about it for about five minutes at the rally and then everybody gets bored and got to go back to the wall and got to go to the polls. It was sort of like a -- that moment crystallized him, you know, for me. He's a showman. He's a performer.

He needs, you know, there's a plus. The idea of prosecuting an argument for three months, four months, the e-mail was perfected served up, you know, as a weapon for him.

[20:25:08] And July, it just sort of faded and August --

TASINI: He had three opportunities at the debates. To your word you used, Anderson, coherence. If you actually go and read the transcripts which geeks like me do, he's not able to me a coherent argument about any policy issue.

COOPER: I remember Corey Lewandowski before the last debate talking about draining the swamp, being the great slogan that has really taken fire, caught fire among his supporters, and that's what he's going to be talking about at the debate. We didn't hear drain the swamp at all.

LORD: He used it at Gettysburg, though.

TASINI: Because he gets started.


COOPER: I mean, that was -- when he started that, what, more than a week ago, he could have been --

LORD: I think you're going to --


HUGHES: Let's go back to 2008 and Barack Obama. Talk about --

COOPER: One at a time.

HUGHES: The great entertainer in chief. I mean, I will give Barack Obama this, in 2008, he was the best campaigner, you know, Bill Clinton was good, Barack Obama was even better. And he was allowed to get people engaged.

He got people to the polls. He got people inspired. And it wasn't because of talking policy. I think Mr. Trump might have watched him, might watched people like Bill Clinton. It's all about engagement and people showing up to the polls.


TASINI: We know Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and Donald Trump is neither of them. He's not --

HUGHES: That's a good thing.

TASINI: No, he's not --

HUGHES: He's got the energy.

TASINI: He's not able to engage voters.

COOPER: We have to pause it there.

Just ahead, we'll have more in our next hour with the panel. Crunch time on the campaign trail for both candidates. Donald Trump trailing the polls, dismissing them as rigged. I'll talk to RNC chief strategist Sean Spicer about the headwinds that Trump is facing.


[20:30:32] COOPER: Just 15 days to go, the final stretch for Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump as we said tonight a new CNN/ORC pol1, shows Clinton with a 5-poin t lead among likely voters nationally. Other polls over the weekend show Clinton with even bigger national leads.

Today in Florida Trump dismissed those numbers that he thinks he's winning. I spoke with Sean Spicer, Chief Strategist and Communication Director for the RNC just before we went to air.


COOPER: So Sean, you've seen the results of the new CNN poll. Trump trails by 5-points. He said today at a rally that he's actually winning. Do you believe he's winning?

SEAN SPICER, RNC CHIEF STRATEGIST & COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yeah, I think when you look at the battleground states whether it's Florida, Iowa, Ohio and Nevada. I think where it matters, yeah we're winning. And I think we've got a path to 270 that's going to make to put him in the White House come November 8th.

Again, and I think the other thing is, Anderson, you look at states where we can start to see evidence of that, right. So Florida we're up over the Democrats in the early votes. Not just the absentee ballots requested, but then returned. Same thing in Iowa, and in places, excuse me, like Iowa and North Carolina -- in Iowa, excuse me, in places like Iowa and Ohio where traditionally we don't do as well as early votes, you see actually a consolidation of where we've been in the past to -- it's a much closer race for us. We do so well there on Election Day.

COOPER: But, I mean, you know, we just had John King explain the electoral map. Even if Trump wins all the states that CNN currently has as tossups, he still comes up short of 270. So I mean, you're looking -- you say you're looking at early ...


SPICER: No. If you take Florida, Ohio, Nevada, Iowa, North Carolina, and then add in New Hampshire and Maine too, which is both areas I think we're doing very well and gets us over the 270 mark.

COOPER: I think New Hampshire, though, I think even Maine in RealClearPolitics which is, you know, a poll of polls, shows Clinton the lead. And also in Florida.

SPICER: So again, and some of these places, there's not one of those states that's not in the margin of error. And I think we feel very good about our data, where we are, and are voter targeting. We know exactly what we're doing in terms of the early vote, the absentee vote requests and our ground game. So I again with all due respect to the polls I know where we are data wise and we feel very good.

COOPER: This morning Trump tweeted "major story the Dems are making up phony polls in order to suppress the Trump. We're going it to win." Do you -- can you point to which polls and which Democrats he's referring to? Because he's not providing any evidence.

SPICER: There's an outlier today ABC showing a 12-point race. That's by far an outlier. The demographics that make up ...

COOPER: But that's not necessarily a phony ...

SPICER: Well sure it is.

COOPER: The phony polls are online polls that Donald Trump always seems to be referencing. Even the Rasmussen poll, you know, isn't something we would use.

SPICER: OK, well again, well you get to make that decision. I think when you look at the Rasmussen poll and IBD poll, the IBD poll was the most accurate poll going back a couple cycles. So I get you may not like it, but it's actually been one of the most accurate polls going forward.

Secondly, in the polls ...

COOPER: The reason for clarification, the reason we don't use it, is they don't reveal all their methodology and the at the Rasmussen poll ...

SPICER: I don't even see that.

COOPER: ... uses a combination of online polling and television -- and telephone polling.

SPICER: Right. I understand that, but I'm not saying that you have to accept it, but it doesn't make it phony.

COOPER: Just today Donald Trump said in response to an adult film actress who says he grabbed and kissed her without permission offered her money to go to his hotel room. "Oh, I'm sure she's never been grabbed before." Can you explain what he meant by that?

SPICER: No, I don't -- I assume I really don't. The idea that today we saw that Terry McAuliffe, one of the Clinton's strongest allies allegedly -- not allegedly, do -- helped steer almost $500,000 in campaign contributions to the wife of the person who ran the FBI investigation of Hillary Clinton. I'm somewhat shocked they're not getting the level of attention that they will be.

COOPER: He did give the money before the guy was assigned to that case.

SPICER: He was the number three at the FBI at the time.

COOPER: I'm sure ...

SPICER: So yes, he became number two but the idea that that doesn't seem like a huge impropriety is a little -- and the idea that people are sort of helping to make the excuses for. It's Hillary Clinton that should have to answer for that. It's Terry McAuliffe. The media shouldn't be sort of making excuses for when certain things happen. They should be asking the tough questions as they do every day of the Trump campaign.

COOPER: All right. Sean Spicer, Sean, good to talk to you as always. Thank you.

SPICER: Thanks, Anderson.


COOPER: And our interview, complete interview with Sean can be seen online at

Just ahead, more on Donald Trump's appetite for suing people or just threatening to. We'll look at why Trump's threat to sue the "New York Times" over its reporting on sexual assault allegations is likely going to remain just that, a threat and no more.

[20:35:08] We'll be right back.


COOPER: As we reported during a speech in Pennsylvania over the weekend, Donald Trump went off script and spent a good amount of time attacking women who've accused him of sexual assault threatening once again to take them to court.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. Total fabrication. The events never happened. Never. All of these liars will be sued after the election is over.

It was probably the DNC and the Clinton campaign that put forward these liars with their fabricated stories, but we'll find out about their involvement at a later date through litigation. And I look so forward to doing it.


COOPER: Well, Trump is also threatening or there were reports he was going to sue the "New York Times" over its reporting on sexual assault allegations that he's facing. None of this is actually surprising giving Trump's long history of threatening to sue people who say things about him he doesn't like. "USA Today" wrote a long piece about Trump's propensity to sue, and as they put "The Republican presidential candidate has threatened political ad maker, a rapper, documentary filmmakers, the Palm Beach Civic Clubs newsletter and the better business bureau for lowering its rating of Trump University. He's vowed to sue multiple news organizations including the "New York Times", the "Wall Street Journal," the "Washington Post," and "USA Today," didn't follow through with any of those."

[20:40:26] So why the threat and the not the ball (ph) through. In the recent case the "New York Times" there maybe very good reason. Randi Kaye tonight reports.


TRUMP: No paper is more corrupt than the failing "New York Times." The good news it is failing, it won't be around too much longer, but they are really, really bad people.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump tearing into the "New York Times" for its reporting on women accusing Trump of touching them inappropriately. Trump's team called the article reckless and defamatory and demanded a retraction and an apology. Failure to comply, Trump's lawyer warned, would leave Trump no choice but to pursue all available actions and remedies. The candidate has made it sound like a lawsuit is imminent.

TRUMP: It will be part of the lawsuit we are preparing against them.

KAYE: If Trump's lawyers do sue the "New York Times", don't expect the paper to request the lawsuit be dismissed. It may be exactly what the "New York Times" wants.

In response to Trump's lawyer, an attorney for the "Times" shot back, "if Mr. Trump disagrees we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight."

Read between the lines and the "New York Times" seems to be saying, bring it on. Donald Trump in a court of law under oath answering all kinds of embarrassing questions about his sex life and his behavior with women. It's a process called discovery and in the end could provide a treasure-trove of stories. That is if Trump tells the truth.

The "Washington Post" found that when Trump was deposed back in 2007 for a law suit he filed against the "New York Times" reporter, Trump lied as many as 30 times. If a lawsuit is filed in this latest case involving his accusers, legal experts say it wouldn't just be Donald Trump facing questions. Ivanka, the rest of his children and maybe even his ex-wives could be deposed.

Not to mention, the growing list of women who now say Trump kissed them or put his hand up their skirt without consent. The Republican nominee continues to suggest he's been a victim of libel. What's still unclear is if Trump has realized how much a lawsuit could expose about his business and personal life.

TRUMP: These false attacks are absolutely hurtful. To be lied about, to be slandered, to be smeared so publicly, and before your family that you love is very painful.

KAYE: Painful, but with a lawsuit, the burden would be on Donald Trump to prove all the claims against him are false.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Florida.


COOPER: A lot to discuss. Joining me now is senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. Trump's claim that he's going to sue the women who have made accusations against him, that he's going to sue all of them, how hard is a case like that?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It's very hard in the United States for any sort of public figure to win a libel or defamation case because he'd have to show one of two things. He'd have to show what's called -- he'd have to show either that the person who made the accusation or the newspaper knew it was false when they made it, or showed reckless disregard for whether it was true.

Now, reckless disregard means you made no effort to check it out and certainly when it comes to the "New York Times," I mean they obviously made a greet deal of effort to check out every story they wrote about Trump, so it really does seem literally impossible for him to win a lawsuit against the " New York Times." It is, perhaps, somewhat more possible against these women, but as Randi pointed out in her story, if she were to bring those law -- such a lawsuit, his whole personal life would be open in discovery process.

COOPER: So in discovery. So that means that the "Times" or these women's attorneys could essentially depose him about his entire history.

TOOBIN: Exactly.

COOPER: His entire sexual history, everything.

TOOBIN: And, of course, the "Access Hollywood" tape would come in where he admitted making unwanted sexual advances. Virtually sexual assaults on women which would be argued on a part of these defendants was proof that he had a propensity for doing this which would certainly help their case.

COOPER: Over the weekend also, Trump made the argument that essentially the press in the United States can say whatever they want and that he wants, you know, libel and slander laws to look more like they do in the United Kingdom where it's easier for people to get convictions.

TOOBIN: It is. It's different in several important ways. The most important way is that in the United States, the plaintiff has the burden of showing that the story is false. In Great Britain, the publisher, the news organization, has the burden of showing that it's true. Also what's different is that the loser pays the winner's attorneys fees.

[20:45:08] So, it really raises the stakes for both sides. Here, everybody pays their own attorney fees regardless of what happens, and -- but the press is in a much more vulnerable position in Great Britain.

COOPER: And is it -- is it just that the story is false or there has to be malice involved in the U.S.?

TOOBIN: In the U.S., no, I mean, they don't -- actual malice is a somewhat misleading term. It doesn't mean, like, hate.


TOOBIN: But it does mean a kind of recklessness.

COOPER: A reckless disregard. They didn't research it, they didn't look ...

TOOBIN: They didn't try. They didn't make any effort to check it out. But usually what satisfies the actual malice standard is if you go to the subject of the story and say, is this true, will you respond to the allegations? Clearly, the "New York Times" did this. All the newspapers and news organizations that have written about Trump have gone to him for comment and that, alone basically eliminates the possibility that Trump could ever win one of these cases.

COOPER: Also any reporter can show the steps that they went through to try to verify a story. Whether or not there was actual verification, they at least having made the effort is enough.

TOOBIN: And this is one of the key differences between the United States and Great Britain. In Great Britain, that's not good enough to show you made a good faith effort to check it out. You can still lose a libel case in Great Britain. In the United States if you the reporter show the steps you went through, show that you made an effort to get comment, to check it out, you win.

COOPER: I see.

TOOBIN: And the other point he said several times is that he wants to change libel law in the United States.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: That's something the Supreme Court has done. Starting in the 1964 case, the "New York Times" against Sullivan. I mean, these are laws that are set by the courts, not by the president. So Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, nobody can -- no president can ...

COOPER: Change it.

TOOBIN: Only the courts.

COOPER: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.

Coming up, at home with Trump's campaign Kellyanne Conway. Dana Bash asks her how she feels about the way her candidate is attacking the women to say he grope them and about how he behaves on Twitter.


[20:50:52] COOPER: Well, you've been watching this election closely, you've seen her on TV, countless times. Kellyanne Conway is a pundit during the primary. She criticized Donald Trump talked about what she called the victims of Trump University, personal insults as refusal to release his taxes, and how in her words, at the time, built his business on the backs of the little guys.

Then she became his campaign manager, that is certainly in politics, now he defend him on a daily basis, even when the going gets very, very tough. Our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, spent time with Kellyanne Conway at her home. Take a look.



KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Sweetheart, how's this? And then which jacket?

BASH: Scrambling to get the kids ready for school. Familiar chaos for any parent, though Kellyanne Conway is not any parent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where Kellyanne Conway bluntly acknowledging the uphill climb.

BASH: The mother of four young children is Donald Trump's campaign manager. On TV so much, explaining and defending her boss, "Saturday Night Live" dedicated an entire bit to imagining her day off.

This is so weird. This is exactly the way the "SNL" house looked.

CONWAY: Thank you Dana.

BASH: Where's "Walking On Sunshine"?

CONWAY: In my head. The pancakes are true to life.

BASH: These days her mother, who moved in to help, makes the pancakes. Conway's only been on the job since August. Trump's third campaign manager, but the first woman ever to run a GOP presidential race.

CONWAY: I wasn't hired because of my gender, but it's a special responsibility.

BASH: And often a difficult one. Like this weekend, when Trump went off script, attacking the women who say he groped them.

TRUMP: All of these liars will be sued after the election is over.

BASH: Do you just tear your hair out when you hear him s that?

CONWAY: It's his campaign and it's his candidacy and he has to feel comfortable with his voice and his choice ...

BASH: So you're the campaign manager. Do you feel comfortable with that?

CONWAY: I think Donald Trump is at his very best and his very best when he talks about the issues.

BASH: Translation, going off-message hurts his campaign. Conway insists she's tough on Trump in private.

CONWAY: I don't sugar coat it at all. And I think he really ...

BASH: So give me an example, I'm Donald Trump and you're Kellyanne Conway and I say something that really makes you mad ...

CONWAY: I told him yesterday, on the plane, you and I are going to fight for the next 17 days. And he said, why? And I said, because I know you're going to win. And that comment you just made sounds like you think you're going to lose. And we're going to argue about it until you win.

BASH: And what's his response?

CONWAY: And he said, OK honey, then we'll win.

BASH: For a time after Conway took over, Trump was disciplined but not anymore, especially on Twitter.

CONWAY: Literally, people will seriously say, can't you delete his Twitter app?

BASH: That was actually one of my questions.

CONWAY: Of course. It's not for me to take away a grown man's Twitter account.

TRUMP: And I moved on her very heavily.

BASH: When tape from 2005 came out of Trump describing lewd behavior, Conway canceled Sunday TV appearances, but still helped with damage control.

CONWAY: And I felt like Rapunzel in the tower all weekend. And I told Mr. Trump in private what I've also said in public or a variation thereof. I found the comments to be horrible and indefensible. And he didn't ask anybody to defend them, by the way.

BASH: Did you consider quitting?

CONWAY: I did not.

BASH: She said she thought his apology was earnest.

The women who have now come forward and said, it's not just talk. Donald Trump groped me. Do you believe them?

CONWAY: I believe -- Donald Trump has told me and his family and the rest of America now that none of this is true, these are lies and fabrications. They're all made up. And I think that it's not for me to judge what those women believe. I have not talked to them. I've talked to him.

BASH: She was raised in New Jersey by a single mom, aunts, and grandmother, all women, as a political pollster, she chose to work in what she calls a man's world, especially as a Republican. She recalled a potential client, a man asking how she'd balance kids and work.

CONWAY: It was just like, I just hope you ask all the male consultants, are you going to give up your wicked golf game and your mistresses, because they seem really, really busy, too.

[20:55:01] BASH: Still, like most working moms, time with her kids is precious. The question is whether she'll have more time in two weeks, after Election Day. When she was hired the August, she told Trump he was losing, but could still win.

Do you think at this point, it is still possible to win?

CONWAY: It is still possible to win.

BASH: Probable?

CONWAY: I think that we have got a very good chance of winning.


COOPER: And Dana Bash joins me now. I mean what -- a lot of people say about Kellyanne Conway, is that she is an expert on speaking to women voters and that's always been sort of her calling card. It's got to be a -- I don't know what the adjective would be, but I mean it's an interesting position she now finds herself in.

BASH: Frustration, and I think maybe the ultimate irony that she is a pollster, but she has sort of found a niche in not just working for political operatives or political campaigns and candidates, but for corporate America, explaining, using her experience and in data, explaining how to reach women, that she is working for a candidate, who has such a deficit with women.

I asked her that question, her answer was, well, in this stage of the game, it's too late. And I said, you mean, you should have been hired earlier? And she said, no, no, I don't know she was careful to say I don't mean that. But, you know, when she goes in and talks to clients, not Donald Trump, and corporate leaders who are not Donald Trump, she says she has like sort of a long-term explanation for how to talk to women. And that's certainly not a playbook she can follow when she's the Donald Trump's campaign manager.

COOPER: Fascinating. I can't believe the staircase is the exact same is that "Saturday Night Live" skit.

BASH: I said to her, did they come in her and scout that out? She said no.

COOPER: And I like her kids like "Hamilton."

BASH: Yeah.

COOPER: Back in June (ph) who think ...

BASH: I mean who does.

COOPER: ... talking about Hamilton. All right Dana Bash, Dana thanks very much.

Coming up, Donald Trump, as you've seen, said he's going to sue the women who came forward and say he allegedly groped them. We'll heard to someone who knows what it's like to be sued by Donald Trump, a former Miss USA contestant who said the pageant was rigged and then was sued for $10 million. She lost her lawsuit -- Donald Trump won the lawsuit against her. I speak with her in the next hour of "360."