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Pence Plain Skids Off New York Runway, No Injuries; New Polls Show Race Tightening in Key States; Trump Campaigns in Ohio, Criticizes Clinton; Stolen E-mails Outline Bill Clinton's Lucrative Deals; Evan McMullin: Utah's Third-Party Game. Aired 9-10p ET.

Aired October 27, 2016 - 21:00   ET


[21:00:05] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. 9:00 p.m. here in here in New York where there has been a scary aviation accident involving Republican vice presidential candidate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, his plane skidding off the runway at New York's LaGuardia Airport.

Now, it happened on landing in rainy windy weather. It was a Boeing 737. It ended up just short of a highway to the south of the field, a special crushable concrete bed slowed down, stopped the plane as it went off the end of one of one the airport's two fairly short runways.

We've just got an air traffic control audio of the incident. It begins as the plane is cleared to land with fairly significant winds blowing across the runway. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Confirm 3452 is prepared to land.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eastern 3452 assistance to land (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good landing (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eastern. Stop, stop, Eastern. We have an issue on the airport. We have an emergency in the airport. 1188, go around. 3452 we're sending help for you.


COOPER: An issue as she said. but thankfully no one on board was hurt. The plane is still there and an investigation now just beginning. You see the wheels there, looked like they've actually collapsed.

Just moments ago, Governor Pence tweeted, "So thankful everyone on our plane is safe. Grateful for our first responders and the concern and prayers of so many. Back on the trail tomorrow."

Our producer Liz Landers was on the flight. She joins us by phone, so the CNN aviation analyst, Miles O'Brien and CNN safety analyst, David Soucie. So, Liz, if you could just run through exactly what you saw and heard and felt?

ELIZABETH LANDERS, CNN PRODUCER: Sure, so we knew that we were going to be coming into bad weather in LaGuardia tonight. We had actually had an about hour-long ground hold in Iowa where the Governor was campaigning earlier today this afternoon. And when were descending into LaGuardia, it was turbulent, very cloudy, couldn't see very much out the windows.

And when we landed, it was a pretty hard landing that we experienced. And then the runway continued or, excuse me, the plane continued down the runway for probably 20 or 30 seconds and you could feel the plane skidding, you could feel the back of the plane, too, which is where the press is. I felt like it was fishtailing and moving side to side, and then the plane came to a very pretty sharp halt on the runway. And Secret Service immediately popped up, and said that one of them went forward to the cockpit, I assume spoke with the pilot. Said that the plane was intact and there was no damage to the plane but that there was a rescue crew coming.

At that point, Governor Pence came to the back of the plane just to check with the press, asking is everybody is OK. And we asked him if he was OK, he said, yes, he and his family were fine. And he remarked that there was some dirt and mud on his window up at the front of the plane. So at that point, it seemed like we were off the runway. And by the time we got off the airplane, we could tell that the plane had skidded off the runway and into the grass.

COOPER: And it looks like -- I mean, some of the concrete on the runway was torn up. Could you feel, you know, wheels grinding onto the runway or could you not feel anything like that?

LANDERS: It definitely felt like the plane was skidding and it felt like, you know, the brakes were being slammed on and that they weren't working. I mean, we were moving down the runway much more quickly than a plane should be going if it's landing.

COOPER: Right. Our aviation analyst, Miles O'Brien, is joining us as well.

Miles, I mean, you gave a really fascinating description early on, last hour when we were covering this live of the runway at LaGuardia, how difficult it is, you know, not a lot of feet on that runway and also what the surface is actually kind of designed to do.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Anderson, it's a varsity runway. Anybody landing a 737 at LaGuardia has to think of themselves as aircraft carrier pilot. It's 7,000 feet in distance with no real overrun.

And that material that you see there on your screen that's broken apart is designed to do just that, it's frangible. It breaks under the weight of the aircraft to keep it from going off into more serious trouble. What I've learned since I last spoke to is that they were landing on runway 22 which explains the pictures. We're trying to figure out why we're seeing traffic. Well, that's the Grand Central Parkway. And they were landing to the southwest, which means they had a significant tailwind component.

And what that means is the aircraft relative to the ground would be going faster than normal. So you've got a really bad combination of things happening here. You've got a lot of water on the runway, the braking action is not what you would hope it to be and you've got an aircraft that's traveling faster than it would normally be under ideal circumstance.

[21:05:12] Most aircraft ideally land into the wind allowing it to be relative to the ground slower. So if in fact they're landing with a tailwind in this situation, this really isn't too much of a surprise.

COOPER: David Soucie, just from a -- I mean, as a safety analyst, you've seen a lot of incidents like this. What stands out to you?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, you know, what really bothers me is that they were on this downwind leg, information that both Miles and I got after the first talk about this and it bothers me that they were flying downwind and, as Miles said, you're trying to fly into the wind which gives you that relative speed to the ground advantage. And if you're flying down with the wind, it's not a good situation to be, particularly in the rainy runway like this because you're talking about a very high speed landing compared to what you would have if you're flying into the wind.

And then you've got a wet runway on top of that so braking action is impaired to some degree which would increase the probability that you'd be in a hydroplane situation where the aircraft wouldn't have that control or that direct contact with the runway and, you know, would slide around, as was described earlier, when the back of the airplane was being sliding around left to right, left to right, especially as the thrust reversers are coming out, trying to pushing back, literally thrusting. It's almost as if you turn the engines around the other way and then fired them up and maybe to throttle to try to throw you back the other way to combat that. So, this pilot had a lot on his hands trying to land this aircraft in those conditions.

COOPER: I'm told Liz Landers sent us a picture that I haven't seen yet. Let's try to put that up.

And Miles, if you could -- I mean, it looks -- that -- it just -- it looks all torn up, explain what we're seeing there, Miles?

O'BRIEN: I'm waiting for the delay on my cable to get to the picture.

COOPER: That would help.

O'BRIEN: But what I am seeing, though, is -- yeah, that is that material I was telling you about. It designed to allow a typical truck or people or whatever to walk over on a normal day. But the weight of an aircraft is it will sink right through and the rest the forward motion. It's a life saving idea ...

COOPER: So, that's supposed to happen.

O'BRIEN: ... which has only been implemented in recent years.

COOPER: It's supposed to look like that after an incident like this?

O'BRIEN: Exactly. This means it worked. And we should be happy that it worked and we should be glad that the FAA -- you know, we say often, and David will attest to this, you know, it's a sad statement but the rules are written in blood, and when it comes to aviation we have accidents, we have overruns, we have problems and the FAA and the Regulatory Body responds. And that's what makes it so safe.

As long as you listen to what happens from the previous accidents and put in things like this, you don't end up with situations like we had in the mid the '90s when U.S. airways went off the edge of the runway there in sort of a similar circumstances.

COOPER: So, Miles, you're saying it's suppose to look like this the runway -- I mean, it looks almost -- does the plane sink into that? Is that what slows the plane down finally?

O'BRIEN: That's exactly. It's just breaks away like a ...

COOPER: That's amazing, I didn't know that happened.

O'BRIEN: It's enough to hold a truck but not enough to hold a 737, which is what you want. And underneath there is just, you know, for all intents and purposes quick sand. It just slows it down.

COOPER: And Mary Schiavo, in terms of an investigation in the wake of something like that, you're the former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation. I know you work now as an attorney for victims and families of transportation accidents. What are the main questions trying to, you know, everyone's trying to figure out right now?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, actually there will be a lot more questions than just meets the eye because there have been many accidents like this in the past. And as Miles said, the previous accidents are why we have these arrester beds and it's good to think of them as like boxes of concrete with sand inside. And they're going to be looking at the anti-skid system on the plane. They're going to look at the spoiler systems where they sit. They're going to look at the auto braking on the plane. This is a 737 700. They're pretty new. The first ones flew in 1998. They've got -- they're going to see if the toe brakes work, if the thrust reverses work.

So, there's a lot of equipment on the plane that the NTSBs want to look at in addition to this runway, which the condition was listed as good, it's grooved, it got these arrester beds on it. So those beds really did avoided disaster like of the disaster we had in Chicago a few years back.

But there's a lot on the plane that they're going to be checking. So this plane is not going to be playing that or see service any time soon because they've got to look at all the equipment on the plane ...

COOPER: Right.

SCHIAVO: ... which could have malfunctioned.

COOPER: Unless anyone think the campaign for Donald Trump and for the Governor is on hold. Donald Trump has been in Ohio tonight, he called Governor Pence right after this incident, he's expressed relief that everybody on board was OK, but there he is speaking at a rally in Geneva, Ohio.

[21:10:10] David Chalian, our political director, I mean, with this close to an election, you can't stop, I mean, given that nobody was injured on board in this incident thankfully, and Governor Pence, he canceled a fund-raising event in New York tonight, which is the reason he was here but he's going to continue tomorrow?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Full schedule tomorrow, they're going to get a new plane, we're told, and he's going to Pennsylvania and North Carolina tomorrow. So, it might disrupt a brief fund-raiser tonight in New York but that's about it.

COOPER: And Donald Trump also obviously in a very tight schedule right now.

CHALIAN: Yeah, three stops today in Ohio and he is not letting up. We're going to see him in New Hampshire and Maine. He is -- he's packing a ton of campaign activity into each day now.

COOPER: Yeah. David Chalian, thanks. Miles O'Brien, David Soucie, Mary Schiavo, thanks so much. Liz Landers, thank you so much, and I'm very glad you, everyone at CNN who was on board, everybody in the press corps and the Governor's family, the Secret Service, everybody on that board that aircraft, all the personnel who work there are OK, no injuries reported.

There's a lot more to talk about in the hour ahead. A big day in politics. Donald Trump barnstorming, as we said, through Ohio, seeking a crucial victory there, attacking Hillary Clinton by talking about the latest batch of stolen e-mails.

Also tonight, the first lady factor. Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton together for the first time on the campaign trail. How the two are making history and Democrats hope trying to close the deal on this election.


COOPER: It's been a busy day and certainly busy night. If you're joining us, they've just opened one of two runways at New York's LaGuardia Airport, that's after Mike Pence's plane skidded off the other, thankfully, no injuries. That's the headline.

Donald Trump just finished speaking in Ohio, expressed his gratitude for that as well. Meantime, new polling shows the race between him and Hillary Clinton is tightening in certain key states. Florida and Nevada, which should been leaning her way are now tipping back toward him. Other polling showing the possibility she could turn some red states blue.

[21:14:59] Also tonight, lawmakers who condemned Trump now saying they will be voting for him after all. You'll hear from one, Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz, who said he could not support Trump at the ballot box and still faces teen daughter. He said that after the "Access Hollywood" tape. However, that was then, this is now. Now he's a Trump voter he says and the question is how does that happen exactly? We'll have the story just ahead.

We begin this hour with Donald Trump in one key state that's very close indeed. More from our Sarah Murray.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In 12 days, we're going to win Ohio and we are going to win back the White House.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Donald Trump is barnstorming the Buckeye State today with one target in mind.

TRUMP: I mean, I've been doing six, seven, eight things a day, every single day. She's home sleeping half the time. I say she's definitely a low energy person.

MURRAY: Seizing on latest revolutions from hacked e-mails released by WikiLeaks, outlining how Bill Clinton generated personal income through Clinton Foundation contacts.

TRUMP: If the Clintons were willing to play this fast and loose with their enterprise, when they weren't in the White House, just imagine what they'll do, given the chance, to once again control the Oval Office.

MURRAY: The GOP nominee hoping a last ditch effort to stay on message and jam pack his campaign schedule might be enough to clinch a victory come November but even if he accused Hillary Clinton of being dangerous on foreign policy ...

TRUMP: Now, Hillary wants to start a shooting war in Syria, a conflict with a nuclear power, Russian, which could very well lead to World War III.

MURRAY: He again appeared to come to Russian President Vladimir Putin's defense.

TRUMP: She speaks very badly of Putin and I don't think that's smart, you know. You could be very tough but you shouldn't be doing what she's doing.

MURRAY: And while he claimed he no longer wants to focus on the lawsuits he's threatened against women who accused him of unwanted sexual advances ... TRUMP: You know, I hate that you waste time when we're talking about ISIS and we're talking about jobs and you're still bringing that up. Everybody wants to bring it up. Look ...


MURRAY: Trump still lobbing sharp attacks at a "People" magazine reporter who alleged he pushed her against a wall and kissed her without consent.

TRUMP: Oh, she was afraid. Give me break. She was afraid to write it? She would have gotten the Pulitzer Prize. Give me a break.

MURRAY: Trump making a rare appearance with wife Melania. She says she's more focused on raising their 10-year-old son Barron than hitting the campaign trail.

MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: My priority is my son, Barron, our son Barron. And I support him 100 percent and I'm there for him every time he needs me and I will join him.

MURRAY: But her husband has other ideas.

TRUMP: She's an amazing when she speaks. She's an amazing public speaker. So she's agreed to do two or three speeches and I think it's going to be big speeches, important speeches. It's going to be great.

MURRAY: And with less than two weeks until Election Day, Republicans are still grappling with how to deal with their nominee. After pulling his endorsement of Trump weeks ago ...

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R) UTAH: I can only answer to myself and my wife and I got to feel good about what I do.

MURRAY: Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz now said he'll vote for Trump after all tweeting "I will not defend or endorse Donald Trump but I am voting for him. HRC is that bad. HRC is bad for the USA."


COOPER: And Sara Murray joins us now from Geneva, Ohio. Did Trump make any mention of his running mate tonight?

MURRAY: Anderson, he did mention at the end of the speech. He told this Ohio crowd that he spoke to Mike Pence and explained that his running mate's plane had skidded off the runway. And in Donald Trump's words he said that Pence was very close to grave, grave danger, but then he assured the crowd that everyone was fine, everything is fine. And of course that's what we're hearing from our producer Elizabeth Landers who was at the plane and we're also learning that Mike Pence will be back on the campaign trail tomorrow. We've already seen a number of Donald Trump top aides tweeting about it as well as the senior communications adviser out there on Twitter, essentially saying nothing can slow down this ticket in the last week or so between now and Election Day. Anderson?

COOPER: All right. It goes on. Sara Murray, thanks so much.

Hillary Clinton and First Lady Michelle Obama campaigned together for the first time in North Carolina. Mrs. Obama has been logging a lot of times stumping for Clinton in solo appearances and in joining her today. She has broken new ground. More now on just what it means to the Clinton campaign especially what it says to Clinton supporters. Some of them would prefer to see the current first lady probably at the top of 2016 Democratic ticket. Our Randi Kaye was in Winston- Salem today talking to voters. Here's what they told her.


MICHELLE OBAMA, UNITED STATES FIRST LADY: You guys are pretty fired up, right? I like that.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First Lady Michelle Obama sharing a stage with Hillary Clinton for the first time, a double dose of Democratic women thrilled supports.

How important is it to you that Michelle Obama is supporting Hillary Clinton and campaigning with her in terms of your support?

BABETTE SCHMIDT, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I still would support Hillary without Michelle, but I think that is an unbelievably big bonus for Hillary.

[21:20:05] Michelle is the classiest presidential wife we've ever had.

BARBARA BOLDEN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: She creates a lot of enthusiasm. I think she brings vitality. Lots of the things that I think people are not necessarily seeing in Hillary even though they do believe in her message.

OBAMA: Hillary has done her job. Now, we need to do our job and get her elected president of the United States.

KAYE: Mrs. Obama's fans believe she is uniquely qualified to pull all kinds of voters into Clinton's camp, voters like Savannah Redmond, a 20-year-old millennial and former Bernie Sanders supporter who admires Michelle Obama.

SAVANNAH REDMOND, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I think she's cool. She gets the show black girl magic. She gets the show our point of view and she's just a good feminist and women empowerment icon.

KAYE: Mrs. Obama is a draw for this millennial too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just really speaks to issues that affects millennials and she kind of -- I guess in someway speaks our language sort of.

KAYE: And how many of you want to see the first woman president? All of you.

CONSTANCE WILLIAMS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I think it's fantastic that she chose to support Hillary and bring in all the women because we really need that support from not only females but the African- American women as well.

If she supports and we'll support her because the African-American community at large really believes in Michelle Obama.

KAYE: As the two women hugged on stage at this North Carolina rally, supporters were reminded of a different time. Clinton's bitter 2008 campaign against then Senator Barack Obama. Back then things got personal.

OBAMA: To our view was that if you can't run your own house you certainly can't run the White House.

KAYE: Mrs. Obama denied that clip was directed at Mrs. Clinton. But even after President Obama named Clinton as his secretary of state, the tension between the two women reportedly continued. But today, they are partners, hoping to take down Donald Trump.

How did you feel to hear Michelle Obama say Hillary Clinton is my friend?

ANNE LAWRENCE, CLINTON SUPPORTER: It was amazing and it was an example for all of us as a sisterhood. They were together and we're all together in this.

KAYE: What did you see between these two women today?

EMMA CURRY, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I saw love, unity, total and complete support.

CLINTON: It doesn't get any better than being here with our most amazing first lady.

KAYE: Especially when the First Lady is known as the closer, a nickname she earned as the end of her husband's 2008 campaign.

TERRY MOORE-PAINTER, CLINTON SUPPORTER: She definitely can be a closer, absolutely. I'm excited to be here and I'm so excited to vote for a woman for president.


COOPER: And Randi Kaye joins us now from Charlotte, North Carolina. Do you get a sense from supporters that many of them were there to see Michelle Obama and might not even come out to see Clinton if she hadn't been there or had they been to a lot of Clinton rallies?

KAYE: They had been to some rallies, but the crowd today, Anderson, was huge, and absolutely they were there to see Michelle Obama. I asked them were the two of them there on the stage for the first time together at a rally, who were you more excited to see and almost every single person told me they were there really to see Michelle Obama.

A lot of people there told me that they would like to see her run for president one day, maybe in 2020. One woman told me that if Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton were on the same presidential ticket, she would absolutely vote for Michelle Obama. And it's not just women, she's very popular among that crowd with the men in the crowd, young and old, black and white, you name it. And she is really bringing in those African-American voters into the tent for Hillary Clinton.

I talked to many of them who had felt over this campaign that they haven't had a hero in the race without Barack Obama in this race. They're not feeling not that same passion for Hillary Clinton. And I think, Anderson, judging from what I heard today, they have found their hero in this race and it is Michelle Obama.

COOPER: All right, Randi Kaye. Randi, thanks very much.

The panel is back with us this hour. David Chalian, I mean, it is interesting to see, you know, you hear in that report they maybe once had more of a rocky relationship. But clearly Michelle Obama sees her husband's legacy at stake here as much as anything else.

CHALIAN: Without a doubt. She is all in on the Hillary Clinton campaign in a way that she may not have been when this started out. I'm sure she would have done what was asked of her, but she has seen this quest that Hillary Clinton and her team have put together to recreate the Obama coalition, African-American voters, young voters, Latino voters. And she knows that she and her husband can go a long way in helping Hillary Clinton form that. They see that as the path to success.

And you are 100 percent right. This is about a legacy but I also think it is not just about a legacy, I think Michelle Obama really does believe in what Hillary Clinton has been about on this campaign.

COOPER: Well I also wonder how big an -- I mean, obviously, she spoke at the Democratic convention but how big an influence that "Access Hollywood" tape was? Because it was really after that that we heard, you know, her giving you know, her incredibly passion speech and now this speech again today.

[21:24:59] VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yeah. I think that -- first of all, I think that Michelle Obama now is probably the most effective communicator on planet Earth. She is better than President Obama. She is better than Bill Clinton was at his best as far as I'm concerned. She's an extraordinary communicator.

And what's amazing to me is once that "Access Hollywood" tape came out, when she came out she went right after Donald Trump in a way that really was bracing and he never fired back once. He -- I mean he fires back at everybody. I mean, a Gold Star mom, whoever you are. If you say one bad word about him, he's going to talk about you for four days. He has still to this day never fired back. That gives you a sense of the overwhelming power for popularity in her communication ability.

COOPER: Karine?

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, MOVEON.ORG: I just want to say the -- my favorite part about that was the young lady that said black girl magic. I think that says it all. JONES: Millennial slogan.

JEAN-PIERRE: Yeah, millennial slogan, exactly. But look, I think the thing about Michelle Obama is so she is like she has the Midas touch, right? She is the political gold. I mean she has everything going for her, and Hillary Clinton is very, very lucky to have Michelle Obama in her corner.

And I think the thing about Michelle is that -- Michelle Obama is that she speaks like a mom, right? She doesn't sound like a politician. And I think that's why people are very much drawn to her. She sounds like a wife, a mom, you know, and I think it's just amazing to watch.

COOPER: As a -- Kayleigh, as a Trump supporter, do you, I don't know, fear Michelle Obama, is the right word, but do you hope she doesn't spend too much more time out on the campaign trail?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yes, I would say so. I agree with Van Jones that she's an extraordinarily effective communicator. She's very good at speaking and she would have a bright political future if she chose to pursue that.

That being said, you know, I don't know that likeability translates. Likeability is important certainly in a presidential race, their candidate who fares better on that indicator tends to win the election. But both of these candidates are unlikable and are viewed unfavorable. And I'm not sure Michelle Obama's likeability translates when a voter is in the booth saying who's going to better ObamaCare, who's going to better the economy? I don't think likeability of Michelle Obama's going to weigh in that.

COOPER: It could, I mean in terms of like millennial voters where there's been an enthusiasm gap for Hillary Clinton even, particularly among African-American millennial voters. Maybe Michelle Obama makes a difference there, do they?

CARLOS WATSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, OZY.COM: Yeah, I think the real question is can we go beyond individual surrogates as great as Michelle Obama is and can Hillary Clinton turn this into a late game surge of enthusiasm?

In 1992, you saw it crystallized as the year of the women and you saw women get swept into the Senate, they dramatically helped the challenger Bill Clinton win the presidency and the question is not just Michelle Obama, but Elizabeth Warren, you saw Oprah Winfrey out there, you know, JLo is going to be performing, whole series of others, can you begin to get, in my mind, not just millennial enthusiasm but millennial female enthusiasm and can that sweep Hillary in and also sweep out the Senate towards Democrats? I think that's the bigger question because if it's just as individual surrogates, you may get a little bump in states like North Carolina and others, but if it becomes a much broader phenomenon, that can help you in Nevada, that can help you in North Carolina.

JONES: I think you're seeing an incredible surrogate surge right here at the end. I mean Alicia Keys just dropped a big video like while we were here tonight.


JONES: I wonder where the video came from? Anyway, let's talk about yourselves. I just thought -- I don't know, thank you. It was amazing. Anyway, it's a big surrogate surge going on for Hillary Clinton.

COOPER: Andre, in terms of -- I mean the number of -- I mean obviously on the Democratic side, there's a very deep end of surrogates -- popular surrogates good speaker, less so for -- on Donald Trump's side and yet he is pull huge crowds and there is enthusiasm clearly visible in these huge rallies, still.

ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump's surrogate. The more politicians that help him (inaudible) the worse it is for him. He's running against the system. He's wanting -- running against broken Washington. So to have a bunch of politicians come in and say we think he's great, it would totally break the whole message that he's run on for so long.

COOPER: Donald Trump has now said that Melania Trump will be making two to three speeches. She almost seemed a little surprised by that or really Stephanopoulos seemed to think she was surprised. It's not something she's done really since the convention. She's very, very eloquent, she's very poised. Do you think that is something that can help Donald Trump?

BAUER: Cleary. I think she softens him and something that gets great media coverage where women can see a different perspective of Donald Trump loving, caring, fatherly figure, then maybe personalize it, that can help.

COOPER: Right. I think to the town hall we did with Donald Trump's family which you know, to see him on the stage with his kids it certainly impressed a lot of people.

WATSON: You know, even Hillary. When Hillary was asked to say what she admires most about him, talked about his kids. And you haven't seen Ivanka out as much as you would have thought. You saw her obviously at the ribbon cutting recently.

But I want to say is tonight's unfortunate event sometimes can turn people into sympathetic figures. And you wonder whether someone like Mike Pence was been solid but frankly bland, whether or not the Trump team could turn this into something more.

[21:30:03] And whether Mike Pence instead of being dispatched to states like Nebraska where it's weird in the middle of a competitive election that they got him in Nebraska, whether or not, you could use them and more in different ways could be an interesting opportunity for him to use someone like Mike Pence differently.

COOPER: All right, I want to thank everybody in the panel.

Just ahead, more on new the batch of leaked Clinton campaign e-mails and the picture they paint the moment where news of Clinton's private e-mail server hit, it's really fascinating. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Whatever good news, the Clinton campaign is getting in the polls, it almost always comes with the revealing sometimes embarrassing into Republicans outright, incriminating those who've stolen WikiLeaks e-mails, today, no exception. The latest batch reveals how the campaign responded when the e-mail controversy hit. We have details now from Jim Sciutto.


JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Newly released stolen e-mails show the Clinton team reacting with disbelief and frustration as news broke off her private e-mail server.

In March 2015, campaign chair, John Podesta, wrote to campaign manager Robbie Mook, "Did you have any idea of the depth of the story?" "Nope," Mook replies. "We brought up the existence of e-mails in research this summer but we're told that everything was taken care of."

[21:35:03] Later in July, a Clinton surrogate and now transitioned co- chair Neera Tanden wrote Podesta, "Do we actually know who told Hillary she could use a private e-mail and has that person been drawn in quarter before it more colorfully calling the whole thing expletive insane."

A 2011 memo also stolen shows former Bill Clinton aide, Doug Band, taking credit for generating money for Bill Clinton by arranging paid speeches and leveraging contacts with corporations that donate to the Clinton Foundation, activities that he dubbed Bill Clinton Inc.

In the memo, he goes on to say, "Since 2001, President Clinton's business arrangements have yielded more than $30 million for him personally." There is, however, no evidence in the e-mails of any quid pro quo between the businesses and then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. That has not stop Clinton's opponents from pouncing.

TRUMPP: Mr. Band called the arrangement unorthodox. The rest of us call it outright corrupt.

SCIUTTO: Band seen here playing golf with Bill Clinton and President Obama wrote the memo after Chelsea Clinton who was then taking a more active role in the foundation, expressed outrage over Band's actions. In one e-mail she recounts a call where Band, "yelled and screamed at my dad."

Later in 2015, reacting to news reports examining the foundation's finances tend an e-mailed Podesta, "I'm hoping someone is keeping tabs on Doug Band."


COOPER: So, Jim, what is the Clinton campaign saying about all this? SCIUTTO: Well, the Clinton campaign as a matter of policy has not responded to individual e-mails. Like they've said, you cannot guarantee the authenticity of any of those e-mails. But on this issue of the Clinton Foundation financial ties, they did release a statement today saying the following, "The State Department has made clear that Hillary Clinton's action were made in the best of American foreign policy and that she never made decisions because of donations to the Clinton Foundation."

Our reporting has found as well no evidence of a quid pro quo, but I will say in that statement, they also take a dig at Donald Trump saying that he's still has not granted in public that it is Russia that is behind these hacks as the U.S. intelligence community has said publicly, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Jim Sciutto. Jim thanks.

And some perspective now from someone who has put out campaign fires himself, CNN senior political commentator and former senior Obama advisor David Axelrod.

So David, as we just saw in Jim Sciutto's reporting there was apparently war within the Clinton inner circle over this e-mail server. You helped run obviously President Obama's campaigns in 2008. Is this kind of infighting common or is this different?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that there's some elements of this that are different.

And what's been interesting about these e-mails as they've emerged is that Chelsea Clinton apparently got involved in the Clinton Foundation, was unhappy with the way the Clinton Foundation was being run. And some of what we've seen in the last few days seems to be a response from Doug Band who was very active around the Clintons -- Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation in defending his role and his contribution.

Some of it seemed kind of odd to me though. For example, him boasting that he got speaking engagements for President Clinton. I don't know any president of the United States who has problems getting speaking engagements and for fairly eye-popping amounts of money and Bill Clinton is not any mean speaker. I mean, he's someone who's in demand. So some -- it seems a little bit like the rooster taking credit for the sun coming up.

COOPER: And obviously, there's been this drip, drip of the Wikileaks e-mail hack. Do you actually think it doing damage to Secretary Clinton? I mean do you think these e-mails in these final weeks have enough in them either, you know, individually or just as a mass to sway somebody or turn somebody or does it just reinforce the perception people have anyway?

AXELROD: Yeah, I think it does reinforce those perceptions. She's not done very well on the whole honesty and trustworthy measure throughout. This is not a new situation. My guess is that this will reinforce the views of people who have already decided not to vote for her that they -- it will likely not impact the views of those people who have decided to vote for her, many whom are motivated by their feelings about Donald Trump, and it's very late in the campaign.

You know, we keep talking -- not we, but people talk as if November 8th is the day the election is decided, but 40 percent of the vote will have been cast by that time. Many millions of votes have been cast already. And I think views of have hardened by this point. So it's awfully late in the game to see something like this making a decisive difference.

COOPER: All right, David Axelrod, thanks.


COOPER: Well, coming up tonight, do you recognize the guy on the left side of your screen? He could turn the guy on the right into the first Republican presidential candidate to lose the state of Utah in more than half a century.

[21:40:05] It's a fascinating story what's happened in Utah. We'll get more into it, next.


COOPER: Well, if we had another indication of this election is to put it quaintly a real head scratcher, I'd like to direct your attention to the State of Utah. Utah has not voted for a Democrat in a presidential election since LBJ, that was 1964, but all bets are off this year. There are a few things happening not the least of which is a third party candidate, Evan McMullin who are we going to hear from him in a moment.

Our CNN political director David Chalian joins us again with more on the buzz from the Beehive State.

In terms of just polls, let's look at Utah on the population as well.

CHALIAN: Yeah, I mean this is just a stunning development in this race. Utah should be -- Hillary Clinton shouldn't be in the hunt at all. One poll, 34 percent Trump, 20 percent Clinton, and you see that Evan McMullin is at 20 percent there. Another poll had a dead heat 26-26 between Trump and Clinton and Evan McMullin right in the hunt. These polls are a couple weeks old. Some internal polling has shown that McMullin is even surging to the top of the tier here.

And let's look at why, look at the population breakdown here. 55 percent of Utah is Mormon, and so as Evan McMullin. And that is why also we saw Mitt Romney in 2012 have an enormous victory. I mean John McCain beat Barack Obama by a big wide margin in Utah, also it's a very Republican state. But because of the Mormon faith with Romney, this was probably one of the best victories throughout the entire country that yet. Donald Trump should not have this state as competitive at all.

[21:45:07] COOPER: Can you map out a scenario where Utah can make the difference for Trump? CHALIAN: Yes, without a doubt and this should really frighten the Trump camp. So here we are the battleground map, right?

COOPER: Right.

CHALIAN: I'm going to give Donald Trump all the battleground states, and I'm actually going to even flip New Hampshire for him, which is leaning Clinton's way, and I'm going to give him that one electoral vote in Maine, that gets him to 270. That -- this is the winning map for Donald Trump and the map that Kellyanne Conway says she is running the play.

But take a look now, if Evan McMullin wins in Utah, he loses those six electoral votes. He's down to 264, Hillary Clinton to 268 into this scenario. He's gets thrown to the House of Representatives.

COOPER: Wow. And it goes on and on. David Chalian, thanks very much.

So, Evan McMullin is the wild card in Utah. If he wins the state or takes enough votes away from Trump, to carry Clinton the victory either way, it's going to be something that, as we mentioned, has not happened since the '60s.

Kyung Lah, caught up with Evan McMullin to see how he's reacting to all of this. Take a look.


KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For Evan McMullin, the clock is ticking.


LAH: Racing from one event to the next interviews on T.V. Networks.

MCMULLIN: All right, well, let's do this.

LAH: The unlikely third party candidate for president of the United States on the Utah ballot, a conservative, a Mormon in a heavily Mormon state, now has numerous state poll showing he's grabbing nearly a quarter of mainly Republican voters. If McMullin wins in Utah, he'd be the first independent or third party candidate since 1968 to win a state's Electoral College votes.

Do you believe that you're a spoiler?

MCMULLIN: No, I don't. In fact, I think, we've got to tear ourselves away from this idea that it has to be the Republicans or the Democrats.

LAH: We went to a Republican event and you're not very popular there.

MCMULLIN: Yeah, right. You mean the Donald Trump event.


MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Trump, Trump, Trump.

YVONNE PODUCT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: What he's doing is he's usurping the voice of the American people. The American voter selected the candidate.

MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Trump, Trump, Trump.

LAH: McMullin is a bad word in this crowd here for Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, taking on McMullin directly.

GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, the truth of the matter is there's only two names on that ballot that have chance to be president of the United States of America.

LAH: What if he wins to save the Utah?

PODUCT: Then he won the state of Utah.

LAH: That's it? Wow.

PODUCT: He's not president.

LAH: But his campaign has unintended consequences. Democrats are forging into Utah. Hillary Clinton closing the polls with Trump as McMullin cite as Trump voters. Bright red Republican Utah, now a battleground state.

What do you say to them when they say you are wrecking the Republican Party?

MCMULLIN: Oh, I would disagree very strongly with that. I would say that Donald Trump has pulled the party away from conservative values and Donald Trump has pulled the party towards populism and towards white nationalism.

LAH: At a McMullin Meet and Greet, we meet Erin and Kendle Pearson, lifelong Republicans who have a visible reaction to Trump.

Could you vote for him, ever?

KENDLE PEARSON, REPUBLICAN: I don't think so. I don't think so.

ERIN PEARSON, REPUBLICAN: A majority of people voting for Evan, let the government know that there's a majority who are not happy with how the election process has happened this time. So, I absolutely do not believe that it's throwing away your vote.

LAH: McMullin is far from being a polished politician and struggles with name recognition, even in his home state.


LAH: His name is Evan McMullin and he's running for president, he's on the ballot in Utah.

ROE: Oh, good for him.

LAH: If McMullin wins in Utah, he banked six Electoral College votes. Six votes Trump would not have, six that could block Trump's run to 270. And to Mcmullin that's a clear referendum on change.

MCMULLIN: We at least need a new conservative movement whether we need a new political policy or not that's something that still needs to be determined, but we need something new in this country and that's for sure.


COOPER: And Kyung joins me now from Salt Lake City. Form what I understand, McMullin is on the ballot elsewhere. So, is it possible he could have a larger national impact?

LAH: Well, he's most prominent in here, but he is on the ballot as a candidate, something you see printed on the ballot in 11 states. He is eligible as a write-in candidate at about 30 others. But he knows it's late. He knows that 2016 for him the best he could probably do is to make some the sort of statement.

You heard him there, Anderson, talking about a new conservative movement, that's what he's really gunning for. He and the people around him, there are some significant Republican operatives working with him, they are looking at this new conservative movement either within the GOP or as an independent third party for 2020.

[21:50:04] COOPER: All right, Kyung Lah, thanks very much.

Up next, when push comes to shove in Capitol Hill, flip comes to flap, why some GOP members of Congress who have said they would not endorse Trump are now changing their tune.


COOPER: As the clock ticks down to Election Day, we've seen some Republican members of Congress changed their tune on their party's nominee. Now, these are people who refused to endorse Trump, and in some cases, said their conscience is just would not allow it, but now, it seems to be a different story. Tom Foreman reports tonight.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: His statement was pretty clear at the time.

CHAFFETZ: I'm out. I can no longer, in good conscience, endorse this person for president.

FOREMAN: Utah Representative Jason Chaffetz was outraged by Trump talking crudely about women.

CHAFFETZ: And my wife and I, we have a 15-year-old daughter and if I can't look her in the eye, and tell her these things, I can't endorse this person.

FOREMAN: Then just this week, Chaffetz tweeted, "I will not defend or endorse Donald Trump, but I am voting for him." Chaffetz is hardly alone out in Nebraska. Senator Deb Fischer wanted Trump to quit

SEN. DEB FISCHER, (R) NEBRASKA: I was disgusted by his comments as a woman and as a Republican. It was very upsetting.

FOREMAN: But now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're clarifying tonight you are voting for Donald Trump?

FISCHER: Of course, I am.

FOREMAN: Up in Idaho, Senator Mike Crapo did the same U-turn. In South Dakota, Senator John Thune was ready to dump Trump. Now?

[21:55:06] SEN. JOHN THUNE, (R) SOUTH DAKOTA: I intend to support the nominee of our party and if anything should change that, I'll let you know. But he's got a lot of work to do, I think, if he's going to have any hope of winning this election.

FOREMAN: And there is Paul Ryan, the embattled Speaker of the House has endorse Trump yet after the latest scandal has focused almost entirely on the down-ballot races.

The candidate calls all that reluctance a sinister deal, undermining his efforts.

TRUMP: And especially when you have the leaders not putting their weight behind the people.

FOREMAN: But this assessment by "USA Today" shows the turmoil. While hundreds of elected Republicans have denounced Trump's behavior, the great majority plan to vote for him nonetheless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in a fight and there's only choices, are you for Hillary, are you for Donald? I want to see this country change.


FOREMAN: That is the most common explanation you'll hear among reluctant Republicans. They may dislike Trump but they think Clinton would be worse. So they'll stay on the Trump train even if the dining car is serving a lot of waffles. Anderson?

COOPER: All right Tom, thanks very much. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Well, that does it for us. Thanks very much for watching.

[21:59:59] "CNN Tonight" with Don Lennon starts now.

DON LENNON, CNN ANCHOR: America divided. This is "CNN Tonight". I'm Don Lennon.

12 days to go, 12 of them. And one way or another, America will be very different the day after Election Day.