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McCain: "Possible Unraveling Of World Order"; Bipartisan Call For Select Committee On Russia Hacks; Contrasting Trump's Tactics On Russia, China; Clinton Supporters Talk About Election Night. Aired 6- 6:30a ET
Aired December 19, 2016 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: -- 16 this morning. And then as the afternoon moves on, we'll only feel like 23 in New York by this afternoon. Chicago never feeling like temperatures will get above zero.
And, so, we will continue to have this very frigid air in place for the next day or two. Good news is, though, it does move out. Temperatures should warm up quite a bit, Alisyn, by the middle part of the week.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That's good because I don't like it to be this cold before it's technically winter. So good, we'll get a little rest. OK, Jennifer, thank you very much.
So lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are calling for a special committee into the alleged hacking by Russia. We look at that next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The sign of a possible unraveling of the world order that was established after World War II, which made one of the most peaceful periods in the history of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Senator John McCain calling on America to lead the world with a stronger hand specifically his concerns over Russia, its hacking during the election, the civil war in Syria and this most recent international front, the Chinese seizure of a U.S. underwater drone. So, what steps can the U.S. take to deal with these superpowers?
Let's discuss with counterterrorism expert, Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, and CNN senior international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, conveniently stationed in Moscow right now. It's good to have both.
Daveed, let's talk about the plus minus of these reported congressional hearings. Bipartisan getting off on the right foot. Good. But what is the plus/minus when it comes to having intelligence officials coming forward and pushing them to substantiate their sourcing for their intel on the Russian hacks? DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: A lot of minuses to actually pushing intelligence officials to substantiate their sourcing. Thomas Reed (ph) has a very good piece in the "Daily Beast" that is out today.
[06:35:03]The thing that he points out is that when it comes to actually doing digital forensic analysis of hack, it's a lot like trying to substantiate the Monalisa. If you look at one part of the Monalisa like zooming in on a finger, it looks like it can easily be replicated.
When you actually look at the whole that it becomes very clear what the pattern is. In this case, a lot of evidence that Russia was involved in the hacks. You don't have to go to what's classified right now.
Multiple private security firms, law enforcement agencies, intelligence agencies have gone over the details and Russia has been hacking so many different outlets that it's already clear from publicly available evidence.
That being said, I support the hearings for a variety of reasons, including that I think it's important to have a bipartisan agreement that Russia interfering with U.S. elections actually matters.
CUOMO: Clarissa, you are in Moscow. How does this tension about whether or not Russia was involved? And what should be done? How does this play over there as an opportunity?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that the Russians are on the surface of it, they're outraged by these allegations. They have been strenuously denying them for a couple of months now. That hasn't changed at all now. If you talk to people on the street whether they're avid Putin supporters or even if they are more sort of urbanized elite liberals, they do view these allegations as being baseless and primarily based on circumstantial evidence.
So, I don't think people here see this as a really meaningful topic. But at the same time, I think they're enjoying watching it play out, Chris. Because they're seeing what a disruptive effect all of this, whether it was Russian hacking or not in their eyes, they're seeing how disruptive it has been to the democratic process.
They're seeing U.S. intelligence agencies squabbling with each other. They're seeing all of these implications. They're seeing democratic institutions clearly rattled. And they're also seeing, it's important for our viewers to understand, that Russians view President Obama, first of all, not very favorably.
But, secondly, as being a weak president. In their eyes watching this play out is more evidence of the weakness of the Obama administration and I also think, Chris, they're kind of relishing the idea that they could pull off something quite as audacious as swinging an election in the U.S. in the interest of the candidate of their choosing.
CUOMO: All right, two quick more points. One for you, Clarissa, what is the impact of the 2014 sanctions in response to what Russia did and, of course, denied in the eastern part of Ukraine. How harsh are those sanctions on the people there?
WARD: The sanctions are pretty harsh, but it's more the European sanctions that have had a real impact because, of course, Europe is a much bigger trading partner with Russia than the U.S. has. The rubble depreciated considerably. You see Russians, obviously, traveling less. You can't get cheese here, if you can believe that because of all the imports that are no longer allowed here.
It has definitely had a substantial effect on the price of living here, the cost of living and quality of life. What it has not had an effect on is Russian aggression or Russian behavior on the world stage as we have seen in Crimea and Syria. It's business as usual for the kremlin -- Chris.
CUOMO: All right, now let's switch to China. Daveed, there is a stark difference in how our president-elect ignores Russia, but has decided to emphasize what China has been doing. We'll put up the tweets just to remind our audience here.
He has been silent about Putin's reactions. There's been nothing there. But with China, "We should tell China we don't want the drone they stole back. Let them keep it. China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters, rips it out of the water and takes it to China. Unprecedented act."
What is the relative leverage in this situation in taking the China, the Chinese on head on?
GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: That's a good question because, look, China has so much of the U.S.'s debt right now. One of the interesting quotes is that if you owe someone, you know, a billion dollars they own you. If you owe someone $5 billion, you own them. We actually have a lot of leverage over China.
And part of Trump's view with respect to China is that the U.S. has been getting a raw deal in terms of trade with China. He has a number of other grievances including Chinese policy towards North Korea and the like.
So it's going to be interesting to see how it shapes up. Ultimately he probably wants to divide Russia from China, catch them against each other. But, with Trump, it's always a question of whether he has direct steps to getting to what his ultimate vision is.
CUOMO: That is interesting. A little bit of intrigue you threw in there. Is Russia, is Trump positioning Russia to be an ally against China? We'll have to see if that's thinking or just convenience at this point. Daveed, thank you very much. Clarissa, we let go. She is in Moscow. Thanks to both of you -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Back here at home, the election is over, of course, but the results have been very hard to accept for some Hillary Clinton supporters. I sat down with a group of them to talk about what they think went wrong. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[06:40:04]CAMEROTA: How many people think that Russia swayed the outcome of this race? If it had not been for Russia, Hillary Clinton would have won.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Big game Sunday night. Cowboys holding off the Bucs. Oh, boy. But the real winner might be the Salvation Army. How? Coy Wire will tell us in this morning's "Bleacher Report." Tell it.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: You got it, Chris. At 12-2, Dallas is tied with the Patriots for the best record in the NFL thanks in large part to rookie runningback, Ezekeil Elliot. Here he is from two yards out in the second quarter with a touchdown run, but then he donates himself to the big red kettle. He got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for this, but probably will be fined.
He said, though, after the game that he is going to match whatever fine the NFL gives him with a donation to the Salvation Army. Dallas goes on for the win 26-20.
Now, Chris, baby, it's cold outside. Fans in the NFL everywhere were freezing yesterday like in Kansas City where the kickoff temperature was 1 degree, but the wind chill made it feel like it was 9 below. That is the coldest game ever played in Arrowhead stadium.
It was so cold before the game, guys, that tickets were going for 2 bucks. To make it even worse for Chiefs fans, though, their team ended up losing to the Titans, 19-7, brutally cold in Chicago, as well, Packers and Bears.
Game-time temperature 11 with the wind chill at minus 4. That's so cold that even the glue on the helmet decal packed it in. Check this out. You've never seen anything like this. A huge hit on Cadeem (ph) Kerry knocks the sticker clean off his helmet.
The Packers go on for the win, 30-27 on the last play of the game. So cold everywhere yesterday, Alisyn. But today, we have some Monday afternoon football and it will not be cold, it's the Miami Beach Bowl, Central Michigan versus Tulsa at 2:30 Eastern.
CAMEROTA: That looks horrible, Coy. That is horrible.
CAMEROTA: No amount of money you could pay me to sit out there and --
CUOMO: Do it for the love. Nobody does it for the money. Do it for the love.
CAMEROTA: There's television. That's the beauty of television. WIRE: Six years in buffalo. We used to have chicken soup broth on the sidelines instead of Gatorade, hot chicken broth instead of Gatorade because the games were so cold. Anything you could do to stay warm.
CAMEROTA: Thank you, Coy. Now he has my attention.
CUOMO: Money, no. Soup, yes.
CAMEROTA: The 2016 election finally coming to an end with the Electoral College's vote today. What are Hillary Clinton supporters thinking and where does the Democratic Party and these voters, where do they go from here?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those people who traditionally voted Democratic were swayed somehow and it has to -- there's something emotional that rocked them and hopefully --
CAMEROTA: How are you going to win them back?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: All right, you're going to hear the answer to that from our panel of die-hard Clinton supporters, next.
CAMEROTA: All right, the Electoral College is set to ratify President-elect Donald Trump as the next president today. For supporters of Hillary Clinton, this will mark the end of a long, painful chapter since election night.
I sat down with a group of her die-hard supporters to talk about what they describe as their devastation and where they go from here.
CAMEROTA: Show of hands, how many people were shocked on election night? Sally, let's start with you.
SALLY ROSENWASSER, VOLUNTEERED FOR HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN: It felt like a punch in the gut, a nightmare. I think by 10:15, I was upstairs with my head in the pillow crying. I really, I think I cried for the next couple of days. I couldn't go to work the next day. I was so sad.
CAROL EVANS, CO-FOUNDER, EXECUTIVE WOMEN FOR HILLARY: But as the weeks went by, that deep sense of sadness and loss gave way to a tremendous, tremendous anger as we realized from all the news that's coming out that this election was stolen from the American people by Russia.
CAMEROTA: What evidence do you have that Russia stole the election?
EVANS: There was information from the CIA saying that Russia was meddling in the election.
CAMEROTA: But what evidence do you have that it swayed the outcome.
EVANS: The hacking that the Russian government did of the DNC e-mails provided an endless supply of negative commentary in the news about Hillary.
CAMEROTA: How many people think that Russia swayed the outcome of this race, had it not been for Russia, Hillary Clinton would have won. You agree with that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know.
ALL: Well, we don't know yet.
ROSENWASSER: But for months and months and months, all of the American voters were swayed by what they heard and saw in the news.
HARVEY HURDLE, LGBTQ ACTIVIST, CAMPAIGNED FOR HILLARY CLINTON: The other thing I thought was a big factor is the fake news on Facebook.
CAMEROTA: Why? What fake news story cost her the election?
JACOB SCHWARTZ, PRESIDENT, MANHATTAN YOUNG DEMOCRATS: I would say the fake news and Russia stuff are very connected because a lot of the fake news came out of people's interpretation of the leaks. A lot of late deciding voters broke for Trump and it seemed to line-up in terms of timing with the Comey e-mail.
CAMEROTA: What I don't hear you saying is putting any responsibility on her campaign. What percentage do you think was a result of her campaign and things she should have done differently?
SCHWARTZ: Michigan and Wisconsin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I think that the Republican Party was at war and they were fierce. And we were not, we were not dogged enough. We did not see this coming.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Go ahead.
SCHWARTZ: I do think that they didn't pay enough attention to Michigan and Wisconsin, which was a mistake from a campaign perspective. The Hillary campaign ran a very negative campaign towards Donald Trump. It was very much about don't vote for him, vote for me. Not vote for me.
CAMEROTA: You think that cost her.
SCHWARTZ: Yes, absolutely.
HURDLE: Wasn't an economic message either. Donald Trump very clear whether it is going to work or not, he really listened and heard the people's anxiety around the economy.
SONIA PAYTON, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Alisyn, in my opinion, I feel like Donald thought he was going to lose and Hillary kind of relaxed and said, I got this in the bag and that's what happened to it.
EVANS: The media had a tremendous love affair with the circus of Donald Trump.
CAMEROTA: When you say love affair, explain what you mean by that.
EVANS: Every time Donald wanted to get any media attention, he could. He didn't have to come into a studio for an interview, he could call in. That's unprecedented for this kind of election.
CAMEROTA: It is unprecedented but in our defense, so could she have. We would have taken that call any day.
EVANS: Networks did not cover Hillary near as much as they covered Trump. Trump had a blank check for anything ridiculous that he said and he played a media in a way that was truly masterful. Hillary Clinton, she actually had a very strong economic message. The working class, in this country, is two genders and it's multi-racial.
And she spoke to all groups, including white people. So, to me, the whole idea that she didn't speak to the working class, she did not speak to the racist working class who hates what Obama stands for. She did not speak to them. True.
CAMEROTA: But are you saying that only racists, that it was racists that allowed Donald Trump to win?
EVANS: I think it was racism that allowed Donald Trump to win. I'm not saying that everybody that voted for Donald Trump is a racist. I don't believe that. But I do believe that they allowed racism to move into the White House. Let's say that racism reacted against an Obama presidency and that racism won.
CAMEROTA: How many people agree?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's some racism involved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
CAMEROTA: If you've given up hope that anything could stop this before the inauguration, what's your plan?
EVANS: We have to use the unity that we can bring together from the LGBT groups, the millennials, the African-American groups, Latinos, women.
[06:55:11]All of these groups have to unite against this tremendous assault on inclusion and diversity in the United States.
CAMEROTA: Don't you have to give them a chance first? He is not president yet. EVANS: He has been given a chance and you can see it in his cabinet.
HURDLE: You said don't we have to give him a chance. Mitch McConnell, when Obama was elected, said his number one priority was making sure that Barack Obama was a one-term president and in a model of saying no to everything.
CAMEROTA: Are you comfortable emulating that? Are you comfortable being the party of no and being the road block?
HURDLE: Absolutely. I think such concern about some of the changes that want to be made. You have to be realistic. You can't be the party of yes. You have no power at the moment. All you can do is obstruct and slow down and the Republicans have given us the exact model on how to do that.
CAMEROTA: But as Democrats you don't control any House in Congress. How are you going to stop?
MONICA DJERASSI, MEMBER, PA DEMOCRATIC STATE COMMITTEE: We're starting to look at who's up in the Senate races. We have to organize right now.
SCHWARTZ: We've had two or three meetings since the election to, you know, organize people. Meetings that were regularly scheduled anyway, but the number of people we had turn out has been far greater than anything we were seeing before.
DJERASSI: Those people who traditionally voted Democratic were swayed somehow and it's -- there's something emotional that rocked them and hopefully --
CAMEROTA: How are you going to win them back?
DJERASSI: We have to go out and talk to them now. We really do.
CAMEROTA: OK. So, you heard the many stages of grief there from that night being despondent to now pulling themselves up and mobilizing, they say.
CUOMO: The similarities to what these people are saying, to what I heard coming out of the Obama election, 2008, certainly 2012. That cycle is staggering. They said the exact same things and they came to the exact same conclusion. That's what the whole aftermath report was. The only one thing that bothers in there is Democrats were so condemning of the obstructionism by the GOP --
CAMEROTA: That's right.
CUOMO: And now they say we have to do the same thing. By the way, won't be the first time that one party has equaled the abstinence of no.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, I did ask them about that. I said, you know, you hated that Mitch McConnell dug in and that the Republicans were the party of no and it does sound like now they're wanting to take a page from that book. They did go further and say we are also going to have to come up with our own positive message and get out there.
One thing they all said is that they are reading J.D. Vance's book to try to understand the rust belt and people in the middle of the country because they know they're in their coastal bubble. We have J.D. Vance on later to talk about how he has become this sort of encyclopedia for people who want to understand.
CUOMO: Just one quick check on it. The GOP said the same thing, but who wound up winning the election? Not somebody who came with a new positive message, but somebody who stoked up all the angers that are going on in the country.
CAMEROTA: What is your take? Tweet us @newday or you can post your comment on Facebook.com/newday. We are following a lot of news this morning so let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Not much happens in Russia without Vladimir Putin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president is under pressure from Team Hillary who can't accept the election results.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: That's the beauty of this electoral system. It's genius. I'm telling you, it's genius.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only vote that matters when it comes to president has not happened yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question is whether there are 37 Republican electors who think that Donald Trump is really unfit to be president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Russians hacked our system with the intent of influencing the election.
MCCAIN: We need a select committee. We need to get to the bottom of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats are doing everything they can to delegitimize the outcome of the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. The Electoral College is set to ratify Donald Trump's presidential victory today. Electors gathering in all 50 state capitals and Washington, D.C. This vote is getting more attention than usual as Clinton supporters hold out hope for an unlikely twist.
CUOMO: The real drama is coming from the widely varying responses to Russia's hacking to influence the election. Trump and his team largely dismissing the issue. You now have senators on both sides of the aisle who are saying this is a very big deal, an existential threat to your security and they want a broader investigation. Still, 32 days until the inauguration.
Let's begin this hour with CNN's Jessica Schneider in Lansing, Michigan. That's where the states electors, every state meets in its own state capital or state house. Michigan will be an important one to watch.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Chris. Michigan 16 electors will cast their votes at 2:00 today. It will be happening in state capitals all around the country like you said. It's something that happens every year.
But this year, we're expecting protesters and there have already been thousands of calls for electors to, quote, "vote their consequence," an unlikely scenario, though --