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Five Dead, Eight Wounded In Fort Lauderdale Airport Shooting; Intel Report: Putin Behind Election Hacking; Trump Downplays Russian Meddling Despite Intel Report; Trump Meets With Vanity Fair, Vogue Editors. Aired 11p-Midnight ET
Aired January 6, 2017 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: We're following two big breaking news stories tonight in Florida and in Washington. This is "CNN Tonight", I'm Don Lemon.
Five people dead, eight injured in rampage shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport. The suspect, Esteban Santiago, flying from Anchorage with a gun in his check bag, a gun he had declared. A source says that he pick up his bag on arrival, goes into a bathroom, and comes out firing, passengers running for their lives, Santiago taking into custody almost immediately. Sources saying that he claimed several months ago that he was hearing voices telling him to watch ISIS videos.
Meanwhile, breaking news out of Washington, to tell you about as well the intelligence community concluding in its just released report that Vladimir Putin himself ordered hacking to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign and to help Donald Trump.
And we get right to the latest though on the shooting at the Fort. Lauderdale Airport today. Joining me now is CNN's Boris Sanchez and Rene Marsh, our Aviation correspondent. Good evening to both of you.
Boris, first, the FBI held a news conference earlier tonight, what did they say?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, they essentially this would be a very complex and difficult investigation because of the scope of this. You have to imagine how many people were affected by the shooting today. We've just learned that there's been about 10,000 people that have been removed from Fort Lauderdale Airport. And as you can see behind me, there are still people here being evacuated from all the terminals.
These people have been stuck here since about 1:00 p.m. when all of this unfolded shortly before 1:00 p.m. And you said, sources telling us that the gunman arrived on flight, went into restroom after retrieved his bag. Pulled out a weapon, we're not sure exactly what kind of firearm it was. It appears it was a handgun. And then, he opened fire on people that were waiting in the baggage claim area of terminal 2 which is right behind me. We learned later today that he had purchased two weapons recently, two Glocks, a Glock 9 and Glock 40 though. As I said before it's unclear if those were the weapons he used in this attack.
I did ask the spokesperson for the FBI if when he visited that Alaska office of the FBI and told them that he was hearing voices telling to join ISIS, if they asked him about firearms. They said they couldn't answer that question at the moment but they did say again that this would be a very difficult investigation.
Listen to more of what they said at the press briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE PIRO, FBI SPOKESMAN: As you can imagine with this type of investigation and this type of incident, it is a long-term very difficult, complex investigation that requires us to pursue all leads and avenues. We are conducting investigation not only here in South Florida but in several other states as we try to pursue the suspect's activities leading up to today's horrific incident.
The subject is in federal custody as the sheriff mentioned, a long interview was of the individual by the FBI and Broward Sheriff's Office. And he will be charged federally and most likely will have his initial appearance in Broward on Monday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: As you heard, Don, a very difficult and complex investigation ahead because of the law enforcement presence we still see here, it's clear, this is going to take some time.
LEMON: Now, let's talk a little bit more about the suspect, Boris. We know that he's being integrated while in federal custody. Talk to us about terrorism because they said they weren't ruling it out at this press conference.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, very important to point out. As you said, Don, they are not ruling out terrorism right now. It's also a very important to know that the FBI still has jurisdiction over this case. They're still -- the leading investigators here and if there was any indication that perhaps this wasn't terrorism, it would likely to be state-led investigation perhaps.
But when you have someone who goes to FBI office and confesses to hearing voices that he believes are from a national intelligence agency that are telling him to watch ISIS videos, that raises red flags. We're told that agents at that Alaska office referred him to local law enforcement. He apparently told those agents that he had never had intent to hurt anyone, that he never had the intention to go out and hurt anyone.
[23:05:08] So they referred him it local law enforcement who had him evaluated. They did a mental evaluation of him back in November. Obviously, it didn't turn into anything because he was able to get on that flight, come here and carry out this attack. Don. LEMON: All right. Stand by. Boris. I want to bring on Rene Marsh. And Rene, you have been talking to authorities and to your sources, what are they saying about what happened?
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, so we know the tick-tack of, you know, the shooter arrived at the airport, how he traveled from the top floor to the second floor, that lower level and retrieved his bag and then opened fire.
We also know that the FBI is looking into other states that he may have traveled to besides Alaska. Of course, we know he originated in Alaska and traveled from there to Fort Lauderdale but they want to know where else he traveled. So they're looking into his travel in the past as well, hoping to maybe perhaps get a better picture of maybe other connections to other individuals that he may have and perhaps those other individuals have more information about motive or what this person's state of mind had been in the last couple of weeks or months, Don.
LEMON: And we're hearing these conflicting reports, Rene, about an alleged fight on the airplane, what can you tell us about that? May someone said that maybe it did happen but it wasn't bad enough to have people meet them at the gate, what went on? Do you know?
MARSH: Yeah. We've been hearing these reports about possibly, there may have been some sort of altercation on board this delta flight and perhaps that is what angered him and then caused him to go in retrieve that firearm. However, investigators have been following up on that. They have not found any indication that suggested that actually happened.
Usually, when you have troubles, some situation on board and aircraft, if it rises to that level, look through, will radio win for backup to come and meet the aircraft, that would be law enforcement to meet the aircraft as it pulled up to the gate. That didn't happen in this case. So one might believe that even if there was some sort of dispute, it certainly wasn't something that rose to the level of concern for the flight crew because we didn't see that presence when the aircraft arrived, Don.
LEMON: Rene Marsh for us, Sanchez covering this for us. Thank you very much, we'll talk to you guys soon on the story.
I want to go to Dwayne Dickerson now. He was at airport today when shooting started and joins me now by phone. Dwayne, how are you doing?
DWAYNE DICKERSON, WITNESS TO FORT LAUDERDALE AIRPORT SHOOTING: Hey, good evening, Don, good to be with you although, of course, I wish we're under better circumstances.
LEMON: So, thank you for joining us, I wish it were too. Walk us through what happened. What did you see? What did you hear?
DICKERSON: Well, I arrived at airport around 12:45 and I was, at this point, I was at the front of the line, I was next in line to check my bag into the flight. And then I heard a very loud bang. And I was upstairs in terminal 2 at delta ticketing counter.
And I heard the loud bang so I looked next to me at other passengers and we all kind of looked like wow that sounds a little weird. But we weren't ready to say it's trouble or a gun shot. And then just as fast as that thought went through our minds we heard second, third, fourth shots and said to each other out loud, it's shooting, somebody is shooting in the airport.
And so, I ran and I jumped over the delta counter and I encountered a ticketing agent and I was frantic at this point. I said, tell us where the exits are, they're shooting, we need to get people to exits, where are the exits? She was just gone, she was in shock and she was mortified. And so she couldn't even articulate a response.
LEMON: So you were, instead of running out the door because you were -- you said you were checking in your bag, you are in departure, right?
DICKERSON: Yes -- no, I was at ticketing. I was upstairs, on the second level of ticketing.
LEMON: Right, at ticketing, which is the -- where the departure rather than arrivals. So you were upstairs.
DICKERSON: That's correct.
LEMON: OK. So instead of running out the door you jumped behind the counter to hide?
DICKERSON: That's correct because the shooting was coming from -- towards the door area. And if you've even been to Fort Lauderdale airport, if you gets closer to the door area, there's escalators and so was like an open area between the second and first floor. So with the way those gun shots were echoing and bangs, it was coming from that area, so I seemed like running towards the ticketing counter would be safer and further away from the danger.
LEMON: Now, you would be behind the counter or in a room or something in and be safer.
LEMON: A suspect in custody tonight in the shooting rampage at Florida's fort Lauderdale airport that killed five people and (inaudible) that eight others. Let's discuss now at CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Law enforcement analyst Art Roderick. Attorney Stuart Kaplan a former FBI special agent. Safety analyst David Soucie and Bobby Chacon also a former FBI agent. We certain have a very knowledgeable panel to talk about this. Juliette, I want to start with you. We heard from an eyewitness these moments ago. Did you hear the scene that he described? He, People didn't know where to go, they felt that they might be sitting ducks. They jumped over the counter into employee only areas.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. And that sounds familiar. So there will be lessons learned from this. So there's a lot of praise which is understandable because of I think at the tremendous work that was done today. But every jurisdiction has an obligation to go back and determine what they can do better. Communication to the public is one of the most challenging aspects in real time disasters and crisis things like these. And active shooter cases people should just know inherently that they run. That is what that, you know, you run first, you hide second, you engage what's happening third. And so the fact that communications were not clear or in a timely fashion is just something that every jurisdiction has to learn at the state. It's not surprising to me its one of the biggest challenges in the midst of the crisis what to do with lots of people when you don't actually know what's going on. Remember some of the I -- some of the first reports where there a multiple shooters. And didn't quite know where the shooting was occurring.
LEMON: Yes, it was interesting because we talk about this a lot David whenever there is sadly, you know, something happens like this one there is terror or whatnot. And some of the areas, somethings you just like some of those soft target areas, it's really hard to protect. As we say in free and open society. And sadly there are going to be incidents like this. So should not be but they are going to be there. Just this is so much that you can do.
DAVID SOUCIE, SAFETY ANALYST: Yeah, they really is, and its unfortunately security and safety is built on these kinds of things, as Juliette said you learn from each event and every event makes security better. However you're giving up freedom, you're giving up the ability to have this soft areas where you can be without having a worry about security round you all the time. People complaining about how much time it takes to get through security lines, those are all freedoms that have been given up in the sake of security and famous quote is that "those who think that you can give up freedom to get security will have neither." And so I think that's what we have to be cautious all the time is that we really comes down to personal vigilance our personal ability to understand our own safety and how we might be affecting others. But it's just had top be so tragic to have to find a place to hide and not have any idea where it's coming from, how many shooters there were. And it just had to be a really traumatic time for these folks.
LEMON: I want to bring Bobby Chacon. Bobby, you know, we're getting a lot of new details about the suspect. He heard voices telling him to join ISIS, he told the FBI about it. He also was an Iraq war veteran and they say they discharged for unsatisfactory performance. Does this down like PTSD, what stand out here?
BOBBY CHACON, FMR FBI AGENT: I'm not an expert in PTSD but it sounds like they may have been some lingering issues that were, you know, (inaudible) or establish by his military service. But it's really hard to say. What we can say is that you definitely do have some mental health issues. And the FBI -- 0:00] So, they laid you behind the counter, into a room that's
normally reserve for ticket agents and employees, correct?
DICKERSON: Actually, Don, it was, you know, we kept asking for exits. And I was asking her and I didn't really get a response. So, there were two doors off to left, and so I kept saying, "Are these exits? Are these exits?" And so, finally passengers started going in there. And so, people were asking to pass to those exits. And the answer was, "No, it was actually a storage closet."
LEMON: Oh, my god.
DICKERSON: So, we all piled and it was probably 30 for 40 of us, and we piled into this storage closet.
LEMON: This is -- we're looking at your video now. How many people are in there?
DICKERSON: At any given time, there were probably, at least 40 people in there and the area was no bigger than a regular home closet, it was really small.
LEMON: How long were you guys in there?
DICKERSON: We were in for about 30 minutes.
LEMON: Not knowing what is going on.
DICKERSON: Well, and that was the toughest decision, right before I went in there, I said to myself, do I want to go into this area that one way in, one way out, and wait to be a sitting duck or do I take my chances and run through the terminal and try to find an exit.
But from the perception of where the gun shots were coming from, the danger was more so towards the exits than going into the storage room. And so we piled in the storage room.
LEMON: And then you realized after a while, you took the chance of going out or did someone tell you it was OK.
DICKERSON: No, no. We took the chance, and it was unsaid situation but at some point I think we all felt like, are we in here a sitting ducks? So we would peek out and see what was going on. And at some point it seemed to calm down, so maybe 30 minutes later we left the storage room and we ventured out by the ticketing.
And then no more than maybe five or ten minutes after that we saw the police officers and sheriff's officers, running, yelling, pointing guns. And then over the intercom, that was -- I believe it was one of the first if not first announcement, is that "shelter in place and stay calm."
So, all of that led us to believe, and now the rumors were coming, and I was getting text messages and everybody else was that there was second active shooter in the parking garage, right out front of terminal two.
LEMON: So, what was going on in your mind that all this happening?
DICKERSON: It was terrifying, because you didn't know where to run, you didn't know how many shooters there were, you didn't know where the shooting was coming from and to get nowhere would be the safest place to hide. So, that was the most terrifying thing and once again, we -- majority was made the decision that this storage closet was the safest place to hide.
DICKERSON: Because, that was the only place we knew that the shooter was not.
LEMON: So, here are you now? Are you still in Fort Lauderdale?
DICKERSON: No, we finally got released after multiple interviews with FBI agents, police officers. I was released around 8:00 p.m. and now I'm at home.
LEMON: You're at home, but you have home in Florida?
DICKERSON: I'm at home in Florida.
LEMON: Dwayne Dickerson, thank you. Glad you're OK. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
DICKERSON: You're very welcome, Don, thank you.
LEMON: We come right back much more in our breaking news, a deadly rampage shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, new details about the suspect.
[23:16:48] LEMON: A suspect in custody tonight in the shooting rampage at Florida's Fort Lauderdale Airport that killed five people and wounded eight others.
Let's discuss now with CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem, Law Enforcement Analyst Art Roderick. Attorney Stuart Kaplan a former FBI Special Agent, Safety Analyst David Soucie and Bobby Chacon also a former FBI agent. We certainly have a very knowledgeable panel to talk about this.
Juliette, I want to start with you. We heard from an eyewitness these moments ago. Did you hear the scene that he described? He said people didn't know where to go. They felt that they might be sitting ducks. They jumped over the counter into employee only areas.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. And that sounds familiar. So there will be lessons learned from this. So there's a lot of praise which is understandable because of I think at the tremendous work that was done today. But every jurisdiction has an obligation to go back and determine what they can do better. Communication to the public is one of the most challenging aspects in real time disasters and crisis things like these.
An active shooter cases people should just know inherently that they run. That is what that, you know, you run first, you hide second, you engage what's happening third. And so the fact that communications were not clear or in a timely fashion is just something that every jurisdiction has to learn at the state. It's not surprising to me its one of the biggest challenges in the midst of the crisis what to do with lots of people when you don't actually know what's going on.
Remember, some -- of the first reports where there a multiple shooters. And didn't quite know where the shooting was occurring.
LEMON: Yes, it was interesting because we talk about this a lot, David, whenever there is sadly, you know, something happens like this one there is terror or whatnot. And some of the areas, somethings you just -- like some of those soft target areas, it's really hard to protect. As we say in free and open society. And sadly, there going to be incidents like this. So should not be but they are going to be there. Just this is so much that you can do.
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Yeah, they really is. And its unfortunately security and safety is built on these kinds of things. As Juliette said, you learn from each event and every event makes security better. However, you're giving up freedom. You're giving up the ability to have these soft areas where you can be without having to worry about security around you all the time. People complaining about how much time it takes to get through security lines, those are all freedoms that have been given up in the sake of security.
And famous quote is that "Those who think that you can give up freedom to get security will have neither."
SOUCIE: And so, I think that's what we have to be cautious all the time is that, it really comes down to personal vigilance, our personal ability to understand our own safety and how we might be affecting others. But it's just had top be so tragic to have to find a place to hide and not have any idea where it was coming from, how many shooters there were. And it just had to be a really traumatic time for these folks.
LEMON: I want to bring Bobby Chacon. Bobby, you know, we're getting a lot of new details about the suspect. He heard voices telling him to join ISIS. He told the FBI about it. He also was an Iraq war veteran, was later discharged for unsatisfactory performance. Does this down like PTSD, what stand out here?
BOBBY CHACON, FMR FBI AGENT: I'm not an expert in PTSD but it sounds like they may have been some lingering issues that were, you know, exacerbated or established by his military service.
[23:20:09] But it's really hard to say. What we can say is that, you definitely do have some mental health issues. And the FBI Office in Anchorage seemed to have referred him to the proper local authorities there. The FBI does not have jurisdiction over, you know, these issues.
And so, it looks like he is taking in for an evaluation, what happened in that evaluation I think is something that's going to be interesting to me to find out because I always want to know about the status of the mental health systems and what we're doing to help this people and to keep people safe and how we deal with people like this.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Do you see when this happens especially in (inaudible) they're not sure, they're not ruling out terrorism, back to investigating to see if it is in fact that. People -- Bobby, want to go out in blaze of glory but this suspect taken into custody without incident. Does that tell you anything?
CHACON: Well, yeah. And it didn't do suicide by cop which we often refer to. I think that there was no demonstration of any type of terrorist activity and terrorists generally don't walk into a FBI Office and tell them I'm a terrorist, or I'm thinking of becoming a terrorist. And it's just not terrorist behavior as we've seen it.
So I don't think this is, you know, terrorism in the traditional sense, some in terrorism by definition of the word possibly but I know -- I think this was isolated event by, you know, mentally unstable individual.
LEMON: Meaning Islamic terrorism or that's what jihad. So, Stuart, let's talk about what investigators are doing right now, because it's all motive, why, why, what are they doing?
STUART KAPLAN, FOUNDING PARTNER OF KAPLAN SCONZO AND PARKER, PA: You know, I mean, right now, it's an exhaustive search to continue to try to connect the dots. And, you know, keep in mind that the magnitude and just the amass of evidence that has now been left behind by the carnage, the forensic evidence, just trying to consider how many eyewitnesses have to be interviewed is undaunting. And every time it that leads to another dot in the equation to connect all the dots, this is going to be an investigation that's going to take many, many days if not weeks if not months to finally put together the complete puzzle.
Because keep in mind this is one of the unique scenarios where we have someone in custody that is going to face judicial process and going to be prosecuted. We can't forget that the evidence that's going to have to be put forward to secure a conviction in this case. I know that sounds ridiculous but keep in mind he's going to be afforded all of the due process rights and that's going to be in a court of law.
So the FBI, local and the state law enforcement wants to ensure that they get as much evidence as possible to ensure a conviction or may ultimately a plea of guilty, so this person is going to go to jail for rest of his life.
LEMON: Yeah and that's the American system, due process.
Art, I want to ask you a very same question as we look at this live pictures from the airport there because they are still because they are still -- they are continuing to investigate the airport, they still close. What are the investigators looking at now?
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, I think we've talked about everything. They're peeling back this individual's life and getting under his skin and trying to figure out exactly what the motivation was, was there anybody out there to help him. But Stuart is correct.
Usually we don't have a live perpetrator there, so they're going to have to take their time because they're going to put the evidence together for presentation in court. Which takes a lot of time and you have to make sure you dot the Is across the Ts and get the correct search warrants, make sure everybody is got the right thread to him. So, there's a lot that goes in, it's going to go into this particular investigation, because eventually we're going to see this individual come to trial.
I think at another key point, Don, is on the after action side, when I first saw this occurring, I was wondering why they didn't shut down the whole airport. Now, I know that this incident occurred at one particular terminal but, you know, we heard the witness talk about, you know he was getting texts about what was going on and there's text turned out to be incorrect.
So, you got Snapchat. You've got all these social media out there that is texting between all these different terminals. And what occurred was you had a false positive reaction to a possible shooter in the garage area which pulled law enforcement away from the active crime scene.
So, I mean, I think this is one of the things we're going to have to look at in this large venues that hold a lot of people, should they shut down this whole venue and just get everybody evacuated out there.
LEMON: Interesting, Art. I want you to weigh in on this quickly because I want Juliette the same question. Let's put this picture up. There's a picture of the suspected shooter and there he is, Esteban Santiago. And we have people have been reading into his finger and such. Art, you first, what does is say if any to you?
RODERICK: I mean there could be some peripheral involvement here with terrorist group.
[23:25:02] It's hard to say right now but there's definitely physiological issues. And psychological issues and terrorist acts are not mutually exclusive. I mean it could be -- we tend to put something in a particular bucket because we can label it and say, "Okay, this is this".
But one is not mutually exclusive of the other. I think what we're going to find out is that terrorism thing, was probably more of the peripheral issue but this individual have some severe psychological issues.
KAYYEM: Yes. I mean, we tend to think of about ISIS directed, you know, something like Paris, or the ISIS planned something, ISIS inspired, then there's the ISIS inspired attacks which are, you know, who have been inspired online or told to do something attack. And then, there's this third category. We don't know if there yet with this case which is sort of the ISIS justified. Someone has a lot going on, mental illness, other issues, propensity towards violence. And then ISIS becomes this thing, that they will grab on to.
I will tell you, they will be scrubbing his social media presence right now to determine whether there was direct contact or was he just passive recipient seeing things online, seeing things on television shows and decide, you know, that gives him justification for this thing that's already motivated me towards a violent act.
LEMON: Panel, thank you very much, I appreciate it. We'll have much more on the deadly rampage shooting in Fort Lauderdale coming up. But up next US intelligence agencies concluding that Russia's president ordered the hacking of America's election.
LEMON: America's intelligence agencies concluding in report out today that Russian President, Vladimir Putin, directly ordered a campaign to influence U.S. election.
I want to bring in CNN's Chief National Security Correspondent, Mr. Jim Sciutto and former CIA operative Bob Baer. Gentlemen, thank you so much.
Jim, you first, today President-Elect Donald Trump received the briefing on the Russian hacking. What are the key findings?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you the headline issue here delivered in very stark terms by the most senior intelligence officials in the country, directly face-to-face with Donald Trump, is that Russia interfered in the election, the intent being to help you, Mr. Trump, win the election. That's the headline finding of this report. We knew that before, but this has been released and you see in the starkest terms. That's one.
Second, the cyberattacks actually targeted both parties, Democrats and Republicans. But the releases, the releases of the stolen information only targeted one of those parties, that is the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, an effort finds the U.S. Intelligence Community to denigrate her and to, well, reduce her chances of winning and increase Donald Trump's chances of winning the presidency.
LEMON: Bob Baer, to you now. The Intel chiefs say they have high confidence that Russia interfered in the election, but here is what Donald Trump said today. He said, "While Russia, China, and other countries, outside groups, and people are consistently trying to break through the cyber infrastructure of our government institutions, businesses and organizations including the Democratic National Committee here was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election including the fact that there was no tampering, whatsoever with voting machines."
But that is not exactly what the report says. The report says we did not make any assessment on the impact of Russian activities having the outcome of 2016 election. U.S. Intelligence Community is charged with monitoring and assessing the intentions, capabilities and actions of foreign actors. It does not analyze U.S. political processes or U.S. opinion. So why would he put that statement out?
BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Don, this report, this assessment, it's more than an assessment. Frankly never seen anything stronger, more conclusive than, you know, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. They just said this happened. We could trace it. There're left little or no doubt. And Trump understands the implications of this, it is Russians may have helped him to win the presidency. I mean I know I can't read it any other way. And you're right that the Intelligence Community is not going to assess how much effect this Russian covert action had on the elections. They can't.
The CIA doesn't have the ability, neither does the FBI. But I think this report really undermines the legitimacy of the Trump presidency. And he knows it and that's why he's gone out and talked about the Chinese and the Iranians. It could have been all these people. He's trying to deflect the implications, it is. But I think this is devastating for him.
LEMON: Jim, do you agree? I mean you think it undermines the legitimacy of his presidency?
SCIUTTO: Well, it's not a judgment for me to make. I think that I can read from his comments from his perspective he believes that it raises questions and apparently from his perspective unfairly raises questions about the legitimacy of his win. But it's interesting.
Just in the last few minutes, Don, we saw Donald Trump tweet again. This time taking aim and in fact blaming the Democratic Party for this, saying, "Gross negligence by the Democratic National Committee allowed hacking to take place. The Republican National Committee had strong defense."
This is spin we're getting from Donald Trump and from his supporters.
LEMON: It's not the truth. This is not the truth.
SCIUTTO: Well, it's extremely misleading.
LEMON: Because RNC -- The RNC was hacked as well.
SCIUTTO: Well, what the report found was that both parties were targeted, and we've previously reported that Republican lawmakers were successfully hacked, Republican think tanks, thought leaders, party organizations. So we know that republican organizations and individuals were successfully hacked. We also know that only one tranche of information was repeatedly released to the public and that was of the democrats. And that's a key finding. That is one thing that led the Intelligence Community to conclude that the intention was to damage the Democrats and help the Republicans.
I think, Don, we have to stop expecting an honest conversation about this from the president-elect, because his point of view appears to be that it is unfairly undermining his victory. But as, Bob says, it's very rare that you have the Intelligence Community say stuff like this with this level of certainty, right? I mean intelligence by its nature is nuanced and you'll often hear qualifiers and alternative minority reports as it were. This one didn't have that. It came out and said this is what happened.
[23:35:04] LEMON: Yeah. So the DNC was hacked. The RNC wasn't. And I want to make sure I get it right. But republicans were hacked, but they did not release the information to Americans for Republicans.
Bob Baer, give us the bottom here. What do we -- What's to take away?
BAER: The bottom is, this was an act of war. I agree with McCain. It's continuing apparently. And what are we going to do about it? Now, I think, it's up to Trump. I mean, there's no point at, you know, now going after his presidency based on this.
He is going to be the President of the United States. And what he needs to do is sit down and figure out how we get this stopped and, if need be, retaliate against Russia with covert action.
This cannot stand as it is. And I look to Trump for leadership on this to go after Putin.
LEMON: Thank you, gentlemen. Always appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you so much.
When we come up back, President-Elect Trump says he's meeting with intelligence chiefs today was "really great".
So, where does that leave the Intel Community? Plus, more on our breaking news, the shooting that claimed five lives at Fort Lauderdale International Airport.
LEMON: President-Elect Donald Trump met for over an hour today with this country's intelligence chiefs but he doesn't seem to be buying their conclusion that Vladimir Putin ordered Russian hacking.
[23:40:00] Here to discuss now, Timothy Naftali, Senior Presidential Historian, Emily Jane Fox, staff writer for "Vanity Fair" and now a CNN contributor. Congratulations and welcome. And CNN Presidential Historian, Douglas Brinkley.
Douglas, lets start with you. The Russian hacking report pointed finger straight at Russian Vladimir Putin for hacking, but Donald Trump isn't going there. What do you make of his response?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I think he is very worried that he's going to be seen as illegitimate accidental president that, you know, and at all costs he doesn't want that. So, he's in denial mode, the best that he can be.
Inauguration day can't come quickly enough for him in trying to put this Russian hacking problem behind him.
And I thought today the one positive step, at least saying, once he's president and he's going to start doing a huge cyber review of cyber war and tactics going on. But he's kind of like insect in the jar right now being shook up on this issue. And he's afraid if he says, "Yes, Russia did that." It delegitimizes him in some way.
LEMON: And, Timothy, I mean, most people would find it alarming for that, you know, our decades-long enemy was trying to influence election. Trump hasn't even condemned the hack. Why do you think that he can't admit that they did it? And if you were president- elect, wouldn't you say, "You know what, I really want to know the truth behind this regardless of what it means. I'm still president of the United States"?
TIMOTHY NAFTALI, FMR. DIRECTOR, NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: Well, he put himself in a box by denigrating the intelligence before he even read it. So right now, he would have to admit that he was impulsive and he doesn't want to admit that.
LEMON: Guess what? We're not going to have another election.
NAFTALI: I know.
LEMON: He's going to be president no matter what this report finds.
NAFTALI: Don, one of the things that's fascinating about presidential history is if you'll come across presidents who have won who are still insecure.
NAFTALI: Donald Trump is not the first to act this way. But let me say this about his statement today, it was amazing. His statements start by saying that Russia, China, other states, individuals, may have hacked. It doesn't even admit -- He doesn't even admit the basic argument of the report which was that Russia had a systematic approach to influencing our election. So, his denial is huge.
LEMON: Huge. OK. So, I'm wondering, does this fit a pattern for Donald Trump, whether it's his business, it's his children, he never backs down or admits he's wrong, Emily?
EMILY JANE FOX, STAFF WRITER, "VANITY FAIR": That's true. And I think it has a lot to do with that insecurity. I think, look, if you have nothing to hide here you say, "Sure, check everything, check it all. I won. I definitely deserve to be in this position." You don't sit there and say defensively, you know, denying things or go on the offense.
Look at what he tweeted this morning with "The Apprentice" stuff (ph). Why is an incoming President of the United States, two weeks from inauguration, he feel he need to tweet about ratings for a show that you're not connected to anymore, except for us, you know, in A.P.?
LEMON: So, if he's worried about astrict, right, by his name as president, wouldn't you be more worried about tweeting about "The Apprentice", then something as, you know, at least possible hacking has some heft to it? It Involves National Security. Tweeting about "The Apprentice" is like, you know, the history books will be cruel to him for that than they will be on the stance for Russian hacking. Am I wrong, Douglas?
BRINKLEY: Well, he does these frivolous tweets all the time, and I'm afraid that's what we're going to be getting on a regular diet of. But this is a big moment in American history, what Putin has done trying to interfere with the American election, it's gigantic. And Trump really doesn't have a great position right now. He should do what you want him or suggesting, and that's kind of coming stepping out, and or saying, "I've now looked at intelligence and it is Russian fingerprints on it, and I'm going to get to the bottom of this and be a little more ardent." But, his looking a bit like a fool to put it mildly at this juncture.
And I think, though, what he does know is our media cycle at CNN and elsewhere, we may forget about this in one month to two months, and it might get put behind. So we often kind at times just tries to buy time knowing that people will lose interest in the story at some junction.
LEMON: Oh, no. And he has the press conference, trust me, it will all come out. You need not worry about that, because here is what I have to --.
BRINKLEY: No, I didn't, but.
LEMON: Go on.
BRINKLEY: I'm just going to say, Don. But, yes, it will hit the press conference. But now, we're going to have all that inaugural coverage and were going to have all of this, you know, the Supreme Court's Justice pick and all the new cabinet appointments, and it's just going to be raining news. And these terror attacks in the world, you know, problems of the world at large, that he thinks that eventually this story might just become old hack and people won't remember it.
LEMON: We got four years, but go on.
[23:45:00] NAFTALI: I just wanted to say, he's going to have to have a policy towards Russia and the minute he says Putin's name, it will all come back.
LEMON: It's all going to come back and we'll have to say he's adamant about Russian hacking. He did not -- He said they did not help him win. All right.
So he said there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election, including the fact that there was no tampering, whatsoever with voting machines.
No one said that there was no tampering with voting machines. And in fact, what the report actually says, and I've been reading this all evening, and I say, you know, it's been to be kind or it's not exactly the truth to be kind.
We did not make an assessment of the impact -- This is from the report, "We did not make an assessment of the impact that Russian activities had on the outcome of the 2016 election. The U.S. Intelligence Community is charged with monitoring and assessing the intentions, capabilities, and actions of foreign actors, it does not analyze U.S. political processes or U.S. public opinion."
It has not said whether or not there was an effect on the outcome. That is according to the report and I read it.
So, he keeps saying that it's not. Why is he telling this lie about it?
FOX: Well, we could ask that about any number of things that happened throughout the campaign.
Look, Donald Trump has a different relationship to the truth that maybe you or I have. I think that he kind of lives in a fact-free universe and this is just an extension of the behavior that we've seen for 18 months now.
NAFTALI: Look, he doesn't even understand what the U.S. Intelligence Community does. Of course, the U.S. Intelligence Community doesn't analyze our own elections. That would be in violation of the law.
The fact to the matter is, he has managed to pursue his own agenda successfully despite all the odds and all the predictions and he figures he could get away with it. That's the only explanation I can have for the fact that he came out with a statement that said things about the report that weren't true.
FOX: Well, he has gotten away with it. That's the thing.
LEMON: I have to say he is.
FOX: And he gets away with a lot of things that people ordinarily wouldn't be able to get away with.
LEMON: Jefferson (ph), the Associated Press, Donald Trump spoke with him short a while ago about the Intel meeting. Here's what he says, "It was a really great meeting, I really liked those people a lot. I learned a lot and I think they did also."
What did you do on your summer vacation? I had fun in the summer. It was a great summer. I liked everybody a lot. What do you make of that?
BRINKLEY: Well, that he's trying to say I'm not anti-CIA, I'm not anti-Intelligence. I'm just suspicious of the Obama crowd a little bit and I'm going to have a new head of CIA, anew National Security adviser and there are other types of intelligence that will come. But he doesn't like I think the wrap he's been getting that he's kind of opposed to our Intelligence Community. He was trying to heal it a little bit with some mealy-mouthed language there.
LEMON: But he said they learned something too, which I think it's important.
BRINKLEY: Well, that's, you know, he want to say, you know, that's typical Donald Trump right? I mean, he's the kind of always be the center of attention, and believes that he taught them something today.
I'm afraid that what he's going to do is take this and say, "Look, I'm going to meet with Putin, talk about it, do some sort of cybersecurity pact with Putin, go to Mars with Russia." I don't think he's backing away from Russia. I think he's excited to start his first summit with Putin. I don't think he sees him as an adversaries. He sees him as a collaborator.
LEMON: Which is the president-elect, he has every right to do to change whatever relationship we have with Putin.
But any ways, we'll continue to talk. Stay with me around.
When we come right back, President-Elect Donald Trump made time today to met with some top magazine editors who haven't exactly been his fans in the past.
[23:52:37] LEMON: President-Elect Donald Trump met with some of his most outspoken critics today, the top editors at "Vanity Fair", "The New Yorker," and "Vogue".
Back with me now Timothy, Naftali, Emily Jane Fox and Douglas Brinkley.
So it sounds like we're back to the '90s again with -- you know, when the U.S. Indies magazine is on the cover of this magazines a lot.
So Emily, he paid a visit to the editor-in-chief of "Vogue," Anna Wintour, Editor Graydon Carter from "Vanity Fair".
Carter is by the way is the man who dubbed him short-fingered, the short-fingered Bulgarian in 1998. What was this meeting about and have you heard how it went?
FOX: So the meeting was actually off the record and everyone in the meeting has stayed really tight lipped. So I have no new information about what they talked about for you. But I know this is a meeting with the top editors at Conde Nast, the top digital editors as well. And Donald came all the way downtown to the World Trade Center. All I can tell is that security was super tight in building today and everyone had to use one entrance and the elevators were shutdown for a period.
LEMON: You're in that building?
FOX: I'm in that building.
LEMON: OK. So but --
LEMON: -- from 1988, so he -- Graydon Carter, a dubs man, the short- fingered Bulgarian in 1998, he's still holding on to that?
FOX: Well, I think this is a man who cares deeply about what he's written about him. This is something that he cares about. Did you see this time and time again, where he reacts to what is said about him in the press and what is written about him in the press? That's just the kind of guy he is. And that really is what gets him, what is written about him and what is said about him in the media.
LEMON: I was a senior in college and I can't even remember, you know -- Any ways.
FOX: That's why you're not commenting.
LEMON: That's why I'm not talking about. Douglas, what were you going to say?
BRINKLEY: Well, just I'm a contributing editor at "Vanity Fair". And I know Graydon quite well and he's been in a real vicious feud with Donald Trump. So it's really -- And the problem that Trump has is he actually is a consumer of CNN, as you know, "New York Times" and "Vanity Fair", and he likes "Saturday Night Live". And the fact that those four entities constantly seem to be, you know, get punching him or criticizing him, it goads him because he watches or reads those particular programs or periodicals.
FOX: It's been great for "Vanity Fair". All I can say to you, is this attitude towards us has been great for subscriptions and great for traffic. So we welcome it.
[23:49:58] LEMON: Mine either. But the thing is that -- I think you realize when there are certain institutions in society that are touchstones and our iconic, CNN being one of them, "Vanity Fair" being one of them, and "Vogue" as well. And Donald Trump, you know, sees -- knows that. You know, no matter what he says about us, he knows.
NAFTALI: Why was it off the record? I mean the old --.
LEMON: That's interesting.
NAFTALI: Because the way it used to be is the -- it used to be off- the-record before an election so the editorial boards of magazines and newspapers could decide which of the candidate is to support. But it's after the election. I don't understand why it was off-the- record.
LEMON: I've -- I don't know, I could see it with "Vanity Fair" and I can see with "Vogue". I can see it being off-the-record, but if you're going to meet with a news organization ad on (ph), that may be a little bit different. Do you disagree? FOX: That's just the way it was set up.
LEMON: That's just the way it was setup.
LEMON: So I hear that Graydon Carter and Donald Trump shook hands afterwards. That's what the "New York Post" is reporting. Anyone surprised by that? I wonder if Graydon -- Well, you know, I wonder if Graydon is going to write an article about the handshake, you know, considering what he said.
BRINKLEY: Well, that's right. You know, Don, Graydon famously once took a picture of Donald Trump's hand and talk -- you know, they had a mailing back and forth of how small Trump's hands were. And Trump took that photo and put it his own hand in gold and mailed it to Graydon Carter. Graydon now regrets that he didn't save it. But this -- that Donald Trump has small hands and it's been an ongoing schtick with -- between Graydon and Trump for a while.
LEMON: Oh, boy.
All right, Thank you fellow, I appreciate it.
When we come right back, much more on our breaking news tonight, the latest on the investigations into the deadly rampage shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport.