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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD
Orlando Cop Killed at Wal-Mart; Airport Shooter Got His Gun Back After Treatment; Two Teenagers Allegedly hatch Plot to Shoot Up School; Brutal Rape and Killing of 14-year-old Girl in; Chicago Area Jail; 17 Arrested in Kim Kardashian Paris Robbery. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 9, 2017 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): Have you seen this man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will catch this criminal and we will bring him to justice.
BANFIELD: An urgent manhunt is under way after a female cop was ambushed, shot dead at Wal-Mart, this after a pregnant girlfriend was also shot dead
and a sheriff`s deputy dodged a hail of bullets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Markeith Loyd needs to turn himself in, not tonight, not tomorrow.
BANFIELD: The warning are crystal clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Considered armed and dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bam, bam, bam, bam. It`s, like, boom.
BANFIELD: Unrecognizable evil. A calculated killing shatters a typical airport scene as one by one, a deranged shooter takes aim at his victim`s
heads` and fires.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounded like a firecracker at first.
BANFIELD: His carnage all caught on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the ladies that was killed was my seatmate on the plane! She was shot in the head and killed.
BANFIELD: They`re young and beautiful with their whole lives ahead of them. But they may spend a good chunk of it behind bars after hatching a
sick plot to go Columbine at their high school.
A special place in hell. Did she plan her own daughter`s rape and murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Punched, tied up, hogtied, sexually molested.
BANFIELD: Then cash in on the child`s welfare checks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grace Packer was a disposable child to these people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re going to shoot me in the back!
BANFIELD: Busted!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no way out.
BANFIELD: Months after Kim Kardashian was robbed at gunpoint, police think they have their men, and one of them is 73!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Makes me so upset to think about it!
BANFIELD: And worst party idea ever, kids and alligators. What could possibly go wrong?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
Be on the lookout. We`re going to warn you, do not approach the person we`re about to show you. He is considered armed and dangerous, and he is
an alleged killer on the loose tonight. His name is Markeith Loyd.
Take a very close look because he could be anywhere by now. He`s accused of gunning down an Orlando police master sergeant at a Wal-Mart. According
to officers` accounts, Debra Clayton was there shopping, just like any of us could be. The witnesses say the alleged shooter was wearing a security
uniform and that the victim may have confronted him at the request of a concerned customer at that Wal-Mart.
The killing now has the Orlando area on high alert.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR TERESA JACOBS, ORLANDO COUNTY: If you don`t have to be out, don`t be out. Take care of your families first. But if you know something, if
you`ve seen something, we urge you to make that phone call and help us, help our law enforcement officers do their job helping you.
We are all in this together. We are a strong community. We have demonstrated that time and time again, and we will demonstrate that this
time.
We will find this killer. We will bring him to justice. We will make sure that the lives that we lost we`re not lost in vain. But we will only do it
with the help of a good, strong, law-abiding community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: One of those lives, Sergeant Clayton, a 17-year veteran and a mother of a child. She dedicated a lot of time to the community for
projects promoting peace, promoting safety for youth. She reportedly was also one of the first responding officers in the June 12th attack on the
Pulse nightclub, a massacre. She was one of the first there to help.
CNN correspondent Ryan young is live right now in Orlando. He joins me on this story. Ryan, this was an unbelievable day. They locked down schools
all over the are. Kids for hours upon hours were held inside the schools. But they have been released, and yet is it true they still think he might
be in the area?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They do believe he might still be in the area. And something that we wanted to show you and that`s why we got as
close as possible to this command center. I`m going to step out of the way here so we can show you the active detail that`s going on here.
This is what this neighborhood has been like. We`ve been seeing officers all across this area, stationed in positions like this one. We`ve seen
them driving around. They are still looking for this suspect.
There`s a $60,000 reward at this point to find Markeith Loyd. That`s the man they want to look for. But when you talk about this officer, someone
that this community loved -- she was loved. In fact, we were talking with community members who told us that she helped more than 200 kids get summer
jobs because she wanted to break the cycle of violence in this community.
Not only did she do that, but they said she was always available to talk to kids and make sure they guided them in the right direction.
[20:05:00]It was someone who walked up to her today that told her that this man was wanted, and she went to help and talk to him. And apparently, less
than two minutes later, she was hit several times in the chest with gunfire and she did not survive those shots.
BANFIELD: But Ryan...
YOUNG: We do know that she didn`t return fire.
BANFIELD: Hold on one sec.
YOUNG: Yes?
BANFIELD: Hold on because one of the sheriffs has talked about this guy being so incredibly dangerous that this is a case they are absolutely not
letting go of. Listen to Sheriff Jeremy Demings as he talked about how they look at this case now that one of their own is down, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JERRY DEMINGS, ORANGE COUNTY: We`re not going anywhere. If we don`t have this individual by nightfall, we`re not going anywhere. We`re
going to stay at it until we find him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Ryan, not only did he kill that officer, allegedly, but then another sheriff`s deputy was fired upon. Not only that, another officer
was killed today in pursuit. It`s unclear whether this was an accident or whether a charge will result from this.
But this follows another woman several months ago who was murdered, allegedly his ex-girlfriend, who was pregnant at the time. He is facing an
unbelievable litany of charges.
YOUNG: Yes, he`s been on the run for more than a month. So a lot of the questions today to the police department was, If you couldn`t find him for
a month, can you find him now? And of course, that sheriff`s deputy and also the chief of police say we are not going give up. No matter where he
goes, we`re going to continue looking the for him. So you can feel the pain in their hearts in terms of trying to find this man.
But at this point, they do consider him armed and dangerous because it looks no matter what, he is going to try to run. In fact, on a social
media post, he said, I want to be on "America`s Most Wanted." So you can understand how far this many go to avoid capture.
BANFIELD: I`m glad you hit that because to that end -- Ryan, thank you for that. Stay on this. It`s an active situation. I want to get every update
from you that we can tonight.
We were able to track down a close friend of both the alleged shooter and that officer who was killed today. And strangely enough, they both grew up
in the same area. And this person knows both of them, knew the fallen officer and is able to speak about both of them, but specifically why this
happened today. What exactly led to this?
I can`t tell you the person`s name. And we had to disguise the voice also for the safety of this person, but at least it does shed a little bit of
light on exactly what happened at that Wal-Mart. Have a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FRIEND OF VICTIM (via telephone): As far as my opinion, Debra was always in the community helping out and giving back. And when we had, like,
neighborhood functions, she always would support it and be involved in it.
And as far as Markeith, he was always in trouble or doing things that he shouldn`t have been. So basically, that`s why I think that he`s probably a
troubled kid and she was -- because she was raised to help and give back to our community the way her family raised her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So a few words about Debra Clayton from this person, again, who knew this officer, Debra Clayton, who was murdered in cold blood today
outside the Wal-Mart by someone she allegedly knew, as well.
This is what is so strange about Markeith Loyd. Why this happened is still quite a mystery. Again, I want to play -- if we could get that -- that
part of the interview where this person thinks that they know why perhaps this might have happened, at least a motive for it, if that`s what you can
call it. Have a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FRIEND OF VICTIM: Well (INAUDIBLE) Debra Clayton, we grew up together in the Orlando area. And we -- basically, our family was very, very close.
She lived in a little neighborhood called Little Egypt, and also Copper (ph) Shores. And we all basically grew up together. Me and her used to
work together at Arby`s restaurant on I Drive (INAUDIBLE)
And eventually, she was -- got another job and I got another job. We graduated out of high school, and then she became police officer. And we
all still became close friends (INAUDIBLE) see each other out or we`d contact each other out on Facebook. And we basically kept in contact with
each other because our family is still like a close-knit family today. And she always gave back to the community. She always helped out. If you
needed her help or trying to help do anything, she was always there. So She loved the community and she always gave back to the community.
Markeith Loyd -- he grew up in the Copper Shores area. We all went to middle school and high school together. And from what I`ve known from him,
he always was a kind of like a troubled child.
[20:10:02]And from what we`ve known, he`s always been in and out of the system, getting in trouble. And basically, we just (INAUDIBLE) when you
have young people like that getting in trouble, our family always tried to keep us away from them. And he was a very -- basically, I would say a
disturbed child growing up.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, "Disturbed child" is one way to describe him. "Disturbed adult" is another way to describe him. Apparently, he wanted to --
according to his Facebook posts, wanted to be on "America`s Most Wanted." Not sure I`ve ever heard anybody who wants to be on "America`s Most
Wanted." But you got your wish, fella. You are one of the most wanted tonight.
I want to go to Art Roderick right now, who`s a former assistant director for U.S. Marshals and CNN law enforcement analyst. He joins me live from
Hartford, Connecticut. Art, thanks for being with me.
This is a dangerous guy. I was looking at his rap sheet. It is -- it`s kind of astounding that he was out anyway to start with. Starting in 1998,
battery on law enforcement, resisting officer with violence, resisting officer without violence, murder not prosecuted, robbery not prosecuted,
open carrying, resisting an officer without violence, gambling, battery. And now -- we -- I can`t even say them fast enough to fit is the show. So
we`re just going to roll them.
But he`s facing a whole bunch more now. Like, he`s accused of killing that pregnant mom of two. He`s accused of shooting the pregnant mom`s brother,
who tried to assist her. He`s accused of gunning down a police officer today. He`s accused of shooting at responding sheriff`s deputy today. And
who knows what`s going to happen to other law enforcement officer who was on a motorcycle in part of the manhunt.
This is a very dangerous man. How do they go about coordinating all law enforcement agencies out there? And what`s the rest of the public supposed
to be doing right now?
ART RODERICK, FMR. ASST. DIR., U.S. MARSHALS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think the big thing is they need information coming in to the command
post. I`ve talked to law enforcement sources down in Orlando. They`ve set up the command post, state, local, federal, even the prosecutor`s offices
are all represented in the command post. My old agency, the U.S. Marshals, have a very active fugitive task force that is made up of all the counties
in the surrounding area.
But when you look in this individual`s background, I mean, you see his rap sheet, and obviously, it`s a revolving door scenario. But now he`s entered
the big league. I mean, he`s committed -- killed a police officer, fired at another, caused the death of another police officer on a motorcycle, and
shot his girlfriend and killed her, and she was pregnant at the time.
So this individual has really gone over the edge. And not only that, but when you look at his background, most of those crimes, if not all those
crimes, were committed in the Orlando area. To me, this individual does not leave that area. That is where his support system is. That is where
his family is.
So the command post is looking for any and all information coming from the public. He`s laying low somewhere, or somebody`s hiding him out and
they`ve got to give him up. This individual right now...
BANFIELD: Well, there`s a $60,000 reward...
RODERICK: ... is pretty desperate.
BANFIELD: ... out there for him, Art, 60 grand.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: And also, I guess if anyone cares that might know him or might be aiding and abetting, a whole lot of charges will rain down...
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: ... on anybody who aides and abets him as he`s on the run.
RODERICK: You`re exactly right.
BANFIELD: He`s been on the run now for several weeks because of that other killing, you know, just a couple of weeks ago, the pregnant girlfriend who
was allegedly killed by him.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: Real quick, Art. I just read you and played the roll of his rap sheet. Why is someone like that out in the first place?
RODERICK: Well, I mean, when you read some of those crimes, as bad as they might sound, they don`t reach the level -- as you know, Ashleigh, in your
previous profession, you know, a lot of these crimes, you get charged with them and you can`t prove them. They get dismissed. Court dockets are one
way. And it`s just a revolving-door scenario.
And he`s been on the run since the homicide of his girlfriend. And this type of individual does not put roots down. So that`s why it`s difficult
to pin him to a specific location.
BANFIELD: All right, we`re going to leave it there for now. But we`ve got Ryan Young watching this story live. Art, thank you for that. If there
are developments -- and listen, we were just on a manhunt a couple of months ago where it unfolded live on this program. They gunned him down in
the middle of the street on night vision. That`s what happens to guys like this. When they run from the law, eventually, the law catches up with
them. Just ask John Walsh.
I also have to add something to this story. Tragically, maybe even ironically, today is National Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. How about
that. I want to take a moment to remember Master Sergeant Debra Clayton. Take a good look at that face. She`s a hero. And Deputy First Class
Norman Lewis, someone else who gave in service. I want to thank you both for your service to the country and your sacrifice, as well.
How did such a troubled man slip through the cracks even after he sought out professional help himself? And why was he allowed to keep his gun?
Plus, chilling new details about the massacre two teenage girls were planning at their high school. They wanted to do it, quote, "Columbine
style," even though they weren`t even born when that happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:10]BANFIELD: They were running for their lives, an unthinkable but all too real bloodbath, and this time at an airport in Florida.
Authorities say Esteban Santiago flew to Fort Lauderdale with a plan to kill, and kill he did, leaving five people dead, several people injured and
thousands of other travelers shaken to the core.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was one real close one next to me, and then there was four that I heard. Bam, bam, bam, bam. It`s, like, Boom. We didn`t
know what it was. Everybody looked. Then there`s boom, boom, boom, boom. And then people taking off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I was sitting outside the terminal. All of a sudden, I saw these people start running out. I said somebody`s shooting,
shooting. So I started to run, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: In this disturbing surveillance video obtained by TMZ, Esteban calmly walks through baggage, pulls out his gun and opens fire.
[20:20:00]He had it in his checked luggage. He had actually declared it, as well. It was also the same gun authorities returned to him after he
walked into an Anchorage, Alaska, FBI office two months ago. At the time, he spoke out of ISIS. He said he was hearing voices and that U.S.
intelligence was controlling his mind.
But after a mental evaluation, that weapon was returned to him. And now Esteban may be facing the death penalty. This is what he looked like this
morning as he was being led out to his first court appearance. And took a good, long look at the camera.
CNN correspondent Boris Sanchez joins me live now from Fort Lauderdale. Boris, I have seen that video several times now of him walking through
baggage claim, calmly reaching into his belt where he had stuffed that weapon after he retrieved it from his luggage in the men`s room, and just
opening fire.
What happens when he left that frame? What happened after he left the frame of the video?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, from what we understand, he stepped outside of the baggage claim area. He went outside and then walked
back in. At that point, he says that he used up to about 15 rounds. He had run out of bullets, and that`s when he was apprehended by the police.
I did ask a spokesperson for the Fort Lauderdale about the release of this video. It`s unclear how TMZ got their hands on this, but it was clearly
leaked. A spokesperson told us that they would not comment on the story except to say that there`s now an investigation into the leak and that law
enforcement is involved, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: And real quickly, Boris, special court doesn`t allow cameras, so I have to rely on you and your reporting to take me into that courtroom
when he made his appearance this morning. What -- did he say anything? What did he look like? How did he act?
SANCHEZ: Yes, the whole thing only took about 15 minutes. And what really stood out to me was something that you see in the video, the fact that he
was expressionless throughout that video. He showed no emotion today in court, either.
He walked into the courtroom, took a quick look around, and then sat at the defense table. He kept his head bowed for almost the entire proceeding
except to answer a few questions from the judge, specifically if he knew his rights, if he knew that he could remain silent throughout the
proceeding. He said yes. She then read out the charges against him, two of which carry the maximum penalty of death. She asked if he understood
how serious these charges were, and he said yes.
Then he asked to have an attorney appointed by the court. He said he couldn`t afford to pay for an attorney on his own. So the judge asked him
a series questions about his finances in which he revealed that he was unemployed, that the last time he was working was back in November, around
the time that he visited the field office of the FBI, and he was a security guard where he worked for about two years. Before that, he also
acknowledged that he served in the Army reserve for almost 10 years.
At the end of all those questions -- I should also mention one more thing, Ashleigh. He did tell the judge that he only had $5 to $10 left in his
bank account. So you can imagine the kind of circumstances that he`s in. He sold just about everything that he owned and bought a plane ticket,
leaving only $5 to $10 in his bank account before coming here to Fort Lauderdale.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: He`s going to need that court-appointed attorney then, isn`t he. You better believe he`s going to need that court-appointed attorney, Boris.
SANCHEZ: He certainly is.
BANFIELD: And you did a great job yesterday covering that absolute chaos. So I`m glad to see you`re, you know, doing OK tonight. Boris Sanchez
reporting live for us down in Orlando.
I want you to hear -- I can tell you that this woman, who was a seatmate of one of the people who was shot dead -- she describes for you what it was
like the moment that the shooting rang out and that seatmate was right beside her at the baggage claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He reloaded and he`s walking just with his arm straight out, stonefaced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the man say anything when he was firing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t hear anything. People were just yelling, Get down. I have a strong belief in a higher power, and I know someone was
watching over us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now, Doctor Harry Croft is a former Army doctor, psychiatrist and PTSD expert. He`s also the co-author of "I Always Sit
With my Back to the Wall." He joins me from San Antonio, Texas.
Dr. Croft, you know, this suspect -- I guess we have to call him suspect, even though we`ve seen what he did on video -- he sought help from the
National Guard. He said he had trouble. He got just a few days of treatment, according to his family, and they said it wasn`t the right
treatment. It wasn`t long enough.
He then sought help from the FBI, saying he`d heard voices that said he wanted to join ISIS or that he should join ISIS. The FBI turned him over
to the police. The police turned him over to health care. He had four days in a facility, and he got his gun back.
What do you see when you see these fact patterns play out, you see this man, you see his affectation (ph) in the video?
DR. HARRY CROFT, FMR. ARMY DOCTOR AND PSYCHIATRIST, PTSD EXPERT: Let me begin by saying I don`t think this was strictly PTSD. I start with that
because it`s unfair to all of the veterans that suffer from PTSD. PTSD itself does not cause this kind of psychotic thinking, nor this kind of
senseless violence.
[20:25:02]Now, what was it? We don`t know. Was it a psychotic disorder? Was it substance abuse? Was it something else? We don`t know. But
obviously, Ashleigh, he dropped through the cracks.
BANFIELD: He dropped through the cracks, but he self-presented twice. I think this is why I am so frustrated. It`s hard enough to catch the people
who hide and want to do this kind of thing. But here`s a guy who`s mentally disturbed and admits it twice, admits it to the National Guard,
admits it to the FBI, and still he can have a gun, buy a plane ticket, pack it in his bad, tell the gate agent he`s got it, and somehow get into a
baggage claim and open fire on all those people!
This is what I don`t understand. Ten months in Iraq -- can that do this? Can that cause this? Is there blood on the National Guard for not giving
him better treatment or blood on the National Guard for not identifying that they had a very troubled man in their ranks?
CROFT: We don`t know. But he was in Iraq in 2010, 2011. That was six years ago. He`s had time over the period of time since then to have
developed other symptoms, other diagnostic entities in addition perhaps to his PTSD.
Should he have he have been identified? It depends on how he presented. But certainly, when he came to FBI in November and said, I`m hearing voices
that tell me to watch ISIS training films, they took it seriously then, turned him over to the police, who got him psychiatric help. My
understanding is he was hospitalized four days.
Now, what happened during that time, we don`t know. In retrospect, we know he probably should have been kept longer. He shouldn`t have been given his
gun back.
BANFIELD: In retrospect.
CROFT: But there are laws in place...
BANFIELD: You`re right.
CROFT: ... at the time that may have...
BANFIELD: That`s the issue. You hit it, Dr. Croft. There are laws in place. The police are not at fault. The FBI is not at fault. They
followed the law. Did what they had to do.
If anyone watching tonight has an issue with that, call your congressman because that crazy guy that you saw shooting people, whoever he is, had
trouble and he was legally allowed to get his gun back. And that`s the truth.
Dr. Croft, thank you. I`m so sorry...
CROFT: Thank you for having me.
BANFIELD: ... we meet under these circumstances it seems every single time, but that man is not out of the news yet. There will be many
hearings. And if it is a death penalty case, well, you can bet your bottom dollar you`re going to see his face for the next 20 years or so because
that`s how long it takes to actually carry one of these things out, typically.
Two teenage girls -- they`re not busy applying for college or dreaming about the prom. It`s another Columbine in the making that they were
allegedly after.
And a brutal brawl breaks out in a Chicago jail. Imagine what it`s like to be in this maximum security pod when this kind of thing happens. Where do
you run for cover? Turns out, nowhere!
[20:30:00] (COMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: New details coming out tonight in a sick plot. Two teenage students allegedly hatched to shoot up their Highlands Ranch Colorado high
school. Sienna Johnson and Brooke Higgins, both of them just 16 years old and they allegedly planned the shooting and even postponed it because they
wanted more time to get weapons.
Authorities say Johnson was obsessed with the Columbine shootings and that she wished she had been there at the time. Fact is she wasn`t even born
when this happened in 1999. Still the affidavit says quote, "Her plan was to kill her mother and sister prior to committing the shooting at the
school. That they wanted to wreak havoc even choosing a killing day just before or after winter break because it was around Christmas time and would
have been the most, quote, "traumatic for everyone."
Joining me again now, Randy Zelin, Kathleen Mullin and Danny Cevallos on the program. There are a couple of things that they have been able to
elicit from at least from one of the journals of the girls and I think they`re very telling when you get into the mind. Brooke Higgins has pleaded
to this.
And so in part of the affidavit, I want to read what the journal suggested. "Brooke Higgins wrote that she wished she done Columbine with Eric and
Dylan, Harris and Klebold obviously. They were incredibly smart and everything in Eric`s journal made sense to her. Brooke Higgins wrote she
had very similar thoughts to Eric and wanted to be in charge, destroy, and be impossible to kill. She viewed the Columbine High School Shooters as
Gods and didn`t know if she wanted to believe she could also do it."
When a girl this age says things like this and pleads and gets three years effectively in a juvy facility, are we supposed to feel OK about that?
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re asking the wrong person actually because I think this is a defensible case and I`ll tell you why. Yes, the
passage you just read me is disturbing, but in American law, we have a rule that you can intend all you want and you can never be punished for it.
It`s only intent plus some overt act, some substantial step towards a crime. And everything you`ve told me so far is some really terrible
thoughts that are contained in journals. I haven`t seen a lot in the way of overt acts so to me --
BANFIELD: Like the idea of getting weapons, going online and making sure - -
CEVALLOS: Again, the idea -- the idea.
BANFIELD: Like tap (ph) in something here. Get me off the ledge. When you start searching the internet for the weapons that you want, it`s less
fantasy. It`s less journal writings of a troubled 16-year-old.
KATHLEEN MULLIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Danny is right though, that without an overt act of commission of the crime, you are not allowed to prosecute
people for thought. Clearly, you are seeing signs of mental breaks, mental illness, some sort of collapse inside of these two girls` world and they
are living in a phantasmical way where they`re going to obtain weapons and re-enact a horrible --
[20:35:00] BANFIELD: I hear you, but I keep wondering in this new age of electronics, where is the bar, Randy, to be an overt act? And I`m going to
preface that with what they searched for on the internet because that`s some typing and some searching for places to get things and do things.
And the list of the internet searches on the phone included teen suicide, real gun to buy online, how to buy a gun online, private gun sellers in
Colorado, gun accessories, how to make an aerosol bomb, Wikihow - buy a gun, hacking people in my school, three ways to buy a gun online, the 11
satanic rules of the earth, borderline personality test results, Atlanta for sale saw off shotgun -- craigslist, Columbine shooting conspiracy --
they are lying to you.
RANDY ZELIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I`m throwing you the lifeline because to everyone`s point, and in particular Ms. Higgins, she pleaded guilty to a
conspiracy. Not to the actual act. A conspiracy is nothing more than an agreement and the agreement has to be followed up with some act and
furtherance of this agreement.
You have the two people, Ms. Higgins and Ms. Johnson, and you have overt acts like the computer searches, like reaching out to someone, like buying
a BB gun for practice, like shooting firecrackers and taping firecrackers to an aerosol can.
But, to Danny`s point, three years, record sealed, no criminal conviction. She`s got a year and a raise so she basically does two years. That`s a
tough deal to walk away from. She`ll be out when she`s 19. No criminal record. Get the supervision, get the help she needs. Sounds like a win-win
to everyone.
BANFIELD: So that`s Brooke Higgin and we don`t know yet what`s going to happen with Sienna Johnson. She hasn`t made a plea deal yet. So we`ll watch
to see -- we`ll watch to see if she says the same things because, by the way, this affidavit has the second name all redacted. We know who you are.
You`re in the story. You`re in it no matter whether you want to be or not. And the reason that we can tell you her name because we typically would
protect minors is that, oh, they were charged as adults and as minors. Strange, I know.
Going to move on. A young girl raped and tortured and killed allegedly at the hands of the only people she had in this world. And then those only
people allegedly just kept her in an attic. So they could keep getting their government checks. Really? An update hard to believe.
[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We brought you the story the other day -- an unbelievable development we`ve got in a brutal rape and killing and dismemberment of a
14-year-old girl named Grace Packer. Jacob Sullivan, the boyfriend of Grace`s adoptive mom, Sara Packer, admitted to the authorities what their
roles were in that brutal homicide.
And it includes binding and gagging Grace in a hot attic of their Quakertown home and then Sullivan allegedly raped Grace in front of his
mom, willingly, by the way, before suffocating that girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW WEINTRAUB, DISTRICT ATRORNEY, BUCKS COUNTY, PA: She was punched and then she was tied up, hog tied and sexually molested. She was raped.
The defendant also prior to this committed an involuntary deviant sexual intercourse on her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Did I mention that that rape was performed in the presence of her mother and that her mother watched? The mother, Sara Packer. That same
mother who reported her little girl Grace missing a few days after all of this carnage, after she was last seen at a family picnic.
While police were closing in, those two, Sullivan and Packer, stored this little girl`s body in cat litter because that apparently hides the smell.
And they did so allegedly for months. They eventually dismembered her allegedly and buried her in the woods.
But then hunters found Grace`s pieces on Halloween. And buckle up, now comes word that Sullivan and Packer, brave as they are, really decided
they`d like the easy way out after Grace`s death. A suicide pact, but it didn`t work.
Solomon Jones is the morning show host on WURD radio in Philadelphia. Where are they now, those two?
SOLOMON JONES, WURD RADIO HOST (via telephone): So they are in custody in connection with this brutal crime. Really a crime they had planned for a
year before they even embarked on this scheme (ph). Just a horrible, horrible thing. The whole Philadelphia area really in shock over this.
BANFIELD: And all of it apparently just fessed up to by Jacob on his sick bed in hospital once the suicide failed?
JONES (via telephone): Yes, absolutely. So, apparently during the overnight hours in Abington Hospital, which is right outside Philadelphia,
he confessed to hospital workers and hospital workers believe he also confessed to family members. They saw them in an emotional scene together
during the night.
And then the next day he also confessed to police, just giving them hard details on how this whole thing came about. As you alluded to, the mother
watched and apparently was in on it, was aroused by it. It`s sickening to really think about, but then after that, he comes back.
They both come back, 3:00 in the morning, expecting her to be dead and he chokes the life out of her in a very physical, very time consuming
painstaking assault that took longer, he told the police, than he thought it would.
[20:45:00] BANFIELD: Oh, dear God. Chief deputy Jennifer Schorn is with the Bucks County District Attorney`s office as she joins me live from
Doylestown, Pennsylvania. I can only assume Ms Schorn that you have probably not seen a whole lot of cases this foul, grizzly, unbelievable.
You can add in other descriptor that you want there. Is this a death penalty case?
JEENIFER SCHORN, CHIEF DEPUTY, BUCKS COUNTT, PA (via telephone): Yes, you`re actually right Ashleigh. This case is unimaginable. I mean, the
physical beating that Grace endured and then the sexual attack, the bondage, poisoning for hours and then ultimately was asphyxiated, and we
know at least it lasted for approximately 15 hours so, on its face (ph), yes. The fact that this was a premeditated murder and the fact leading up -
-
BANFIELD: How do you know that?
SCHORN (via telephone): We know that the evidence that we will present in court will clearly show that this was premeditated. And ultimately we
certify a case in this jurisdiction by formal arraignment as a capital case if it`s appropriate. And I can assure you this case is appropriate.
BANFIELD: I know you can`t -- yes, I know you can`t tip your hand up, but I was so curious when I saw that the planning had been upwards of a year
for the rape and murder of this woman`s own daughter at the hands of her boyfriend. That`s very specific thing to say, a planning for a year. What
evidence shows that?
SCHORN (via telephone): I can`t speak to the specific evidence at this juncture. It will be evident in court, however. Grace was unwanted, I mean
that`s a simple fact. And then there was clearly sexual deviance that was at play here, but it was clear she was unwanted.
BANFIELD: So, there was something that was wanted Ms Schorn and that was her government assistance, and as I understand the allegations continue
that this couple continued to pull her government assistance while her corpse was rotting. Will they be charged with that as well?
SCHORN (via telephone): Yes, in fact they will. We know that Grace and her biological younger brother were the beneficiaries of social security income
and obviously Sara Packer was -- she was the recipient of those funds and that those funds were to be spent for the children`s well-being. And so
yes, obviously, they will be charged with that aspect as well of the case in the very near future.
BANFIELD: Jennifer Schorn, I wish you all the best in 2017 specifically as you mount the case against these two, Sara Packer and Jacob Sullivan, and
thank you for your time tonight. I hope we can meet under different circumstances ma`am.
SCHORN (via telephone): Thank you Ashleigh. I greatly appreciate it. You take care.
BANFIELD: You too. The super max unit of a Chicago area jail turns into the scene of a melee. It is not a place you would want to be. Even the worst of
the worst who end up in there don`t want to be there now.
[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Surely the Cook County Jail, why not. Let`s go. Let`s go into the maximum security area where you can`t get out. You see the guys who are
spot lit, watch what they`re about to do to the two guys in the front of them especially the guy on the left, the guy with no shirt on. First guy
gets jumped. Watch if guy on the left. Oh. Down goes Frasier.
But here`s the deal. The melee continues and that guy is out cold and no one can rescue him because people are throwing their shirts off and getting
into this everywhere they can. There`s nowhere to get out.
This guy rips his shirt off and watch what he does. Clearly, this guy has cred in the jail because everywhere he goes, people scatter and they have
nowhere they can go. Go county jail, maximum security division. Note to self, don`t end up there. It is a dangerous place.
And it took over a minute with stuff like this going on before the guards could come in and do some tazing. Even this guy got decked as he was trying
to rescue his pal. That is a dangerous place.
Another dangerous place, Paris, for Kim Kardashian anyway. Remember that whole robbery thing where $4.49 million worth of a ring and $5.6 million --
I can`t even say it properly because I`ve never seen jewelry like that -- were robbed. Now there are people in custody. Apparently 17 have been
brought in and they range, Danny Cevallos, in age from 23 to 73 -- 73.
CEVALLOS: Yes, but you know, those French are always talking about how that glass of wine and some cheese gives them longevity, they`re healthier.
But still, I scarcely know who the Kardashians are. How does 73-year-old --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: You`re 58.
CEVALLOS: Yes, I am pushing 58 as we speak.
BANFIELD: Well, I shouldn`t laugh. Look, they were nasty people. They put tape over her mouth (INAUDIBLE) to her head. I`m glad they`re getting
people in for questioning but the 73 thing kind of surprised me.
Next story involves a picture you just have to see because you wouldn`t believe it if I told you. Trust me. Hello, at your next birthday party
performing is this alligator named Bubba and a little kid on it.
Unless you think that gator ain`t real. She comes back. She gets on. Look at mommy. Get a picture. That gator is real folks and you can see the mouth
is not taped shut. Jim Nesci`s cold-blooded creatures puts on the birthday parties, block parties, family reunions, corporate events, educational
events. His website has all sorts of pictures like this. Guys, is this -- why is this not child endangerment? How can this be a birthday party
attraction?
MULLIN: Well Ashleigh, if you`ve ever been to the zoo or you`ve been to the circus or you`ve been to Las Vegas -- in the zoo and in Las Vegas and
in circus, these elephants are out there. People are riding them. They are trained. They are near --
BANFIELD: They`re alligators.
MULLIN: Well, we have lions, the tigers and your bears --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: Do not bring a tiger to a children`s party either. Why not just put a whole bunch of knives everywhere and go tap dancing through them.
MULLIN: They`re at the circus though.
ZELIN: I`m praying that there`s an antenna coming out of that alligators head --
BANFIELD: It`s real.
ZELIN: -- or the family is -- they`re all Florida gators --
(CROSSTALK)
[20:55:00] BANFIELD: Honestly, I do have to ask this. Can you actually do this? Can you actually put on a children`s party and bring an alligator
without --
ZELIN: Apparently you can.
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: What do you think this guy`s insurance policy is?
ZELIN: You think he`s got insurance?
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: I`m thinking about a company and my business model as well --
ZELIN: Can I get a quote?
CEVALLOS: -- going to ride alligators. That`s the idea.
BANFIELD: -- are misinterpreted. He`s been in business for 63 years with animals. He helps special needs kids and adults alike. Every time I see
that, I see that the mouth is not strapped shut.
ZELIN: Let`s see if it`s true. Good publicity, bad publicity, as long as its publicity. Let`s see if this helps his business.
BANFIELD: Would you put your kid on an alligator?
CEVALLOS: My mom didn`t let us play with sparklers.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: I guess the last word -- I guess the last word is sparklers, Danny. Adorable. Thank you for watching everybody. Thank you guys. Nice to
have you here. I`ll be back tomorrow night 8:00, PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
Stay tuned now, "FORENSIC FILES" starts right after this quick break.
[21:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
