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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
AC360 Panelists weigh in on U.S. Presidential Candidates. Aired Midnight-1a ET
Aired January 15, 2017 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:01] GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: -- you know talking about -- you know, in New York, they're socially liberal. They're pro-abortion. They're pro-gay marriage. Their focus is on money in the media. His wife works for Goldman Sachs albeit out of Texas, but --
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It is kind of amazing just listening to you all.
BORGER: OK, in New York Company. Yeah.
COOPER: I mean, there's a lot of support. I don't mean I'm not necessarily voting support, but a lot of positive words about Donald Trump tonight from a group of people who probably, when he first started said there'd be no way he would be here in, you know, on that stage leading in every --
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: He's proved us wrong.
NAVARRO: He's proved us wrong, time and again. Now, there's no --
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's proved us wrong and he's proved that there's something going on in the country that those of us who maybe spend too much time in Washington didn't understand early on in this campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am enjoying.
KING: Look, he's trying -- he is the President the United States and the Republican responder of state of the union night, went after Donald Trump. I mean, he has changed the political conversation in America and tonight --
COOPER: I mean, I told you this during the break. I was in Uber today with a driver from Burkina Faso who is the biggest Donald Trump supporter I've ever heard and was saying, you know, he's angry and everything from the saying is true and all his friends are going to vote for Trump. And this was a guy from Burkina Faso --
KING: Not everything he's saying is true.
KING: But he's a politician.
KING: Look, tonight, what did he want to do? You know, we've been following this for more than a year. A lot of voters are just starting to check in. And to Amanda's point, you know, if they see us talking to Ted Cruz, is he qualified to be a senator? Is he qualified to be president? Then, Donald Trump's -- that he's winning that piece of the argument there. There are other pieces of the argument, too, but he's winning that one.
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: One other thing that's key today in terms of what went on with Nikki Haley, Governor Haley of South Carolina, is that Rush Limbaugh immediately came to Donald Trump's defense --
LORD: -- and went after her. As to (inaudible), and I think Mark Levin as well, and that's no small thing here and Rush is doing it again today. And the message, of course is, I mean, this is about that split in the Republican Party and I see the chairman, Reince Priebus, felt compelled to disagree with Rush in a statement, which is surely not a comfortable place for him to be because we all know Rush is the real chairman of the --
NAVARRO: And what's interesting, though, because, you know, Trump is the guy who attacks when he's attacked. Nikki Haley and her response made reference to him and attacked him. Yet tonight, it was a love fest between Donald Trump --
COOPER: But I also think, essentially Donald Trump embrace it saying, "You know what, I embrace the anger."
NAVARRO: Yeah, right.
COOPER: "From the candidate of anger, I totally embrace that." Which I think again --
NAVARRO: Because you know what --
COOPER: Classic Donald Trump. Just so -- it is at the top the hour and for our viewers who are joining us and maybe didn't watch all of the debaters, who want to see the key moments. I do want to -- we put together just sort of some of the most important moments that occurred tonight in North Charleston, South Carolina. Here's the samples from the (inaudible).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think most people know exactly what New York values are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am from New York.
CRUZ: And listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the State of New York. But everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage, focus around money and the media.
And I would note indeed, the reason I said that is I was asked, my friend Donald has taken to it at events playing Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA." And I was asked what I thought of that. And I said, well, if he wanted to play a song, maybe he could play "New York, New York." And, you know, the concept of New York values is not that complicated to figure out.
Not too many years ago, Donald did a long interview with Tim Russert. And in that interview he explained his views on a whole host of issues that were very, very different from the views he's describing now. And his explanation, he said, "Look, I'm from New York, that's what we believe in New York. Those aren't Iowa values, but this is what we believe in New York." And so that was his explanation, and I guess I can frame it another way. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I could because he insulted a lot of people. I've had more calls on that statement that Ted made that New York is a great place. It's got great people. It's got loving people, wonderful people. When the World Trade Center came down, I saw something that no place on Earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than New York. Your two one hundred -- your two 110-story buildings come crashing down. I saw them come down. Thousands of people killed, and the cleanup started the next day, and it was the most horrific cleanup, probably in the history of doing this, and in construction. I was down there, and I've never seen anything like it. [00:05:02] And the people in New York fought and fought and fought, and we saw more death, and even the smell of death, nobody understood it. And it was with us for months, the smell, the air. And we rebuilt downtown Manhattan, and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved New York and loved New Yorkers. And I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You cannot give Hillary Clinton a third term of Barack Obama's leadership. I will not do that. If I'm the nominee, she won't get within 10 miles of the White House.
MARCO RUBIO, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would go, first of all, one step further in this description of Hillary Clinton. She wouldn't just be a disaster. Hillary Clinton is disqualified from being commander-in-chief of the United States.
CRUZ: Unlike Hillary Clinton, I don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. JEB BUSH, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everybody on the stage is better than Hillary Clinton. And at the end of the day, we need to unite behind the winners so that we could defeat Hillary Clinton because she is a disaster.
TRUMP: And we don't need a weak person being President of the United States, OK? Because that's what we get if I were Jeb. I'll tell you what, we don't need that. We don't need that. That's essentially what we have now, and we don't need that, and that's why we're into trouble that we're now. And by the way, Jeb, you mentioned Boeing, take a look. They order planes, they made Boeing build their plant in China. They don't want them made here. They want those planes made in China. BUSH: They're a mile away from here. TRUMP: That's not the way the game is supposed to be played. MARIA BARTIMORO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Governor Bush. Thank you, Mr. Trump. Very briefly.
BUSH: My name was mentioned. My name was mentioned here. The simple fact is that the plane that's being built here is being sold to China. You can -- if you -- you flew in with your 767, didn't you, right there, right next to the plant?
TRUMP: No, the new planes. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about in the future. They're building massive plants in China because China does not want Boeing building their planes here. They want them built in China, because China happens to be smart the way they do it, not the way we do it.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
BUSH: When you head back to airport tonight, go check and see what the --
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Mr. Trump. Thank you, Governor.
TRUMP: Oh, yeah. I'll check for you.
BUSH: Check it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Some of the key moments from tonight. In terms of-- I mean, or just that last (inaudible). I mean, we haven't talked too much about Bush, which is probably telling in and of itself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
NAVARRO: I actually thought he had a -- he had tonight what I thought was the best answer he's had on any debate and it was the one on the guns, the gun question. He has a solid record on it. He's got command of the issue. He put everything, but the kitchen sink into that answer and he was very coherent. And it's an issue that resonates in places like New Hampshire and Iowa. COOPER: Our Dana Bash is standing by with Donald Trump Jr. in the
spin room. Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Thanks Anderson. Donald Trump Junior?
DONALD TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: I don't prep (ph) with him.
BASH: You don't do prep?
TRUMP JR.: I don't do prep with him. He does his own prep. Like I said, I build buildings. I build hotels. That's what I do.
BASH: Well, that's what he did at the beginning, too.
TRUMP JR.: Well, you know, and he's doing a great job with this, because I think when you can do that, when you can deal with all the different groups of people that you have to do in real business. Now, when you're spending other people's money like a politician, but when you're spending your own and putting that on the line, you know, it really matters. And so, he's doing a phenomenal job there.
BASH: Do you agree with your dad on issues? I mean, I know it's probably hard, I mean, nobody agrees on everything with everybody, I mean, to the point where you encourage him or you give him advise or you say, "You know what dad, maybe you went too far on that or you need to go far further on something else."
TRUMP JR.: Listen, I grew with him on so much of what he's saying, because I'm American -- I'm a father of five children. I believe in the safety. You know, I believe in the Second Amendment, I'm a big sports man. I'm a hunter. I'm a shooter. These are all things I believe him. These are issues that are key, you know, in the Republican primaries and they're very, you know, meaningful things for me. That's how I spend my life.
So, a lot of people like to group me as a city kid, but I haven't spent the weekend in New York City in 10 years. When I'm done with work, I get out in the country. I was in Iowa last week sleeping on my friend who is a state policeman there on his couch hunting for the live (ph) muzzleloader. And that's not there -- I'm not doing that because it's a political (inaudible), I'm doing that because it's a passion of mine and I've been out there doing that for years not just talking about it on T.V.
So, he's just doing an amazing job and it's incredible to see, you know, what he's able to do and that way he's been able to invigorate Americans, so.
BASH: Well, he's out running for president, you're running the company?
TRUMP JR.: Well, my siblings and myself, I guess you got to -- I want to get it in the writing perhaps. But I guess he trusts us to do that and I think perhaps that's a big reason why he's running now as opposed in 2012. I mean, he -- then we were probably a little bit younger, maybe a little bit more glib. He wouldn't entrust the lives, the livelihoods of all the tens of thousands of employees that he has all, you know, all over the country, frankly, to us if he didn't think that we could actually do that.
BASH: And what about this -- the New York moment that happened in the debate.
TRUMP JR.: Yeah. Well, listen, for me that was a very emotional moment. I'm a New Yorker, but I'm, again, it's not about New York's values. I'm just as comfortable in the country as I've said as I am in New York City, probably more so if you asked my father. So that was a really emotional moment for me.
I mean, I think it really (inaudible) home if you -- you're having lived through. We're having seen a lot of that going on and having lost friends it means something, but not just as a New Yorker, but the way Americans in general bond. They're just said something not just about New Yorkers, but about our entire country.
[00:10:03] BASH: Thank you so much. Appreciate you stopping. Thank you.
TRUMP JR.: You're welcome.
BASH: Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Dana thanks very much.
Joining us right now is Governor John Kasich. Governor, it's great to have you on the broadcast. I'm wondering from your perspective standing on that stage, how did it go tonight?
GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) OHIO: I was very happy, Anderson. I mean, I had time to speak. I got to talk about -- look, basically the greatest concern of Americans and that is wages, their jobs, their kids being able to get a decent job and a little bit about, you know, bringing people together in our communities. I was very, very happy with it and I was extremely comfortable up there and just really had a great time. I'm really, really happy.
And, look, it goes along with the rise we're now having in New Hampshire where the three of the last four polls put me in second place and it's exactly what we wanted to achieve tonight.
COOPER: Those were the issues certainly that we heard from you most on the stage about. Is that what you are hearing in town halls in New Hampshire?
KASICH: Sure. I mean, that's exactly -- well, there's twitchy (ph) here everywhere. You know, Anderson, what it really gets down to the old pros will tell you at the end of the day what matters the most is the size of your wallet. Is your wallet getting fatter? Is it getting thinner? And that doesn't mean that the Homeland and Security in the Homeland doesn't matter. It's risen. But at the end of the day, people are very worried about economics.
And, look, I've gone from, you know, low in the pack now to running a strong second. So, something must be working and we have the best ground game in the state and I'm very pleased with where we are. I mean, the last poll had made about 15 percent, which was significantly ahead of the third-place. And, you know, we just got to keep working and I'm leaving here tomorrow morning to go to New Hampshire and I'll be back for my kids 16th birthday on Saturday and the we're all of the Kasichs are going to New Hampshire on Sunday.
COOPER: Governor, do you think that Ted Cruz put to rest the issue of eligibility?
KASICH: Well, I guess so. I never took it seriously to begin with. I mean, you know, I got too many things I'm concerned about, to be worried about where the heck Ted Cruz was born, you know. It just doesn't matter to me.
COOPER: And the exchange between Donald Trump and Cruz on New York values, it's always different when you're actually on a stage watching sort of an exchange. I'm wondering what you thought of that.
KASICH: Well, I mean, I'm not a whole heck of a lot. I mean, I just don't think you want to be in, you know, like attacking, you know, people at New York or anything like that. I don't think that's very smart.
But, you know, I think, you know, Trump answered that pretty well in terms of 9/11 and, you know, I just -- look, Anderson, we had a problem. People you know, in their 50s have somebody show up and say you don't have a job anymore. You got people whose wages have not moved in for a decade. You got people who, you know, rung up massive college debt and let's try to figure out how to get a job and how to pay it off. And I'm going to worry about those kinds of things, not for me.
And, look, I'm not distracted by the single biggest issue and that is giving Americans economic security and an opportunity to move up and that for their children as well, and to be a voice of people who are often ignored. That's what's all about for me and it's working.
COOPER: And how critical is New Hampshire for you? Where do you see that you have to place in order to move on past New Hampshire?
KASICH: Well, I have to be -- I have to come on "A.C. 360" the next day and you have to say, wow, because what that all mean and, Gloria, I think is there. I haven't been Osier talked to her, but I'll tell you what it means.
If you come out of there all of a sudden, you've got -- people are going to hear you. You're going to have national identification, something that I've had a fight because I don't have the big name ID. And thirdly, you're going to raise money. And I can tell you in the last few days, we've raised a lot more money because people see these polls. And I think at the end, people say, "This is the guy with experience. He's been a reformer. He's got the job done. And he knows what he's doing. He knows how to bring people together, because we're not going to solve problems just by yelling at one another." And I'm very comfortable being in this position, having a great time and we'll see what happens.
COOPER: Governor, I know Gloria wants to ask questions as well.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, governor. Yes, I am here. Do you think that the Republican primary debate has been kind of hijacked in a way going off on tangents like about Chris's eligibility that Trump has raised? I mean, I have a sense of frustration from you that I'm hearing about the issues you want to talk about.
KASICH: Well, I wouldn't. I'm not really frustrated, Gloria. I'm having the time of my life and I think you can see that. And look, again, look at New Hampshire. I'm now in second, right? I mean, maybe that all change.
Maybe I won't win there, but I got a strong feeling I'm going to do very well there. And now we're -- we've organized in South Carolina. We got people on the ground. We got people in Nevada. We got Trent Lott here tonight. He's got Mississippi for me. Then at some point, we get to Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, these are all states that I can win because, you know, as somebody said the other night, we got the establishment lane and the antiestablishment lane and then we have the Kasich lane.
[00:15:13] BORGER: What's that?
KASICH: And there's nobody in my lane, but me.
BORGER: Well, what is that?
KASICH: Well, you know, always some -- responsible reformer who has great experience, who's had great success in all the jobs that I've had by building a great team. That's that lane.
Speaking for the people who never get spoken to floor, not for the special interest, not for the rich, but the people who often feels though their voices aren't heard, whether it was welfare reform or working with Tim Penny to cut a penny out of every dollar, or whether it's balancing the budget, or whether it's fighting, you know, the Pentagon the defense contractors that took advantage of us. I mean, that's who I am. And when people hear it, they respond, I think, and to see if they keep doing it.
COOPER: Well, Governor Kasich, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
KASICH: Thank you.
COOPER: All right, back to the campaign trail. No doubt for the Governor and for all of these candidates. And back to our panel. You know, with every debate, I mean, Donald Trump seems to have been getting better. Certainly tonight, I mean, he's seemed to think that this was his best. A lot of people here seemed to think that as well.
If nobody else on that stage has been able to figure out a way to really make a dent in Donald Trump and we've just seen his number is growing, how does he not become the GOP nominee?
KING: You raise a great -- you make a great question. If Trump wins Iowa and wins New Hampshire, then we're going to be having a very different conversation on the night of New Hampshire.
If Cruz wins Iowa and then if the question is if Trump -- the big conversation by the Republican establishment, if Trump loses, comes in second, then suddenly his support dissipate because he's not winning and his whole brand is not winning, there's no reason to believe that. His lead in New Hampshire is big. His lead in other places is big. But, I think --
COOPER: Because he could even make a second place, finish a win
BORGER: In Iowa.
COOPER: In Iowa.
KING: We're not going to know about this until we get down to three or four candidates.
NAVARRO: But John, here's the thing though. If -- I mean, you know, talking as, I go see, you know, you don't qualify him in establishment Republican. If Trump wins Iowa, if Trump wins New Hampshire, you know, if you take a look right now at the numbers of Kasich, Christie, Jeb, and let's even put Marco in that lane, they would be beating Donald Trump. If Donald Trump comes out of there winning --
COOPER: You mean if they were all one person?
NAVARRO: If they were all one person.
NAVARRO: You know, it's getting completely --
(CROSSTALK) ] NAVARRO: -- the Trump lane and then the, you know, mainstream Republican vote is completely diluted. If Trump wins Iowa or/and New Hampshire, you're going to see the mainstream Republicans come down hard on those four guys and try to get one candidate to take him off.
BORGER: And he's got to win somewhere with one-on-one against a candidate. But right now, like tonight, I got the feeling from Jeb Bush when he said, you know, we're running for president. You can't make rash statements. You've got to stop this. It's like they're punching Jell-O, especially Jeb.
BORGER: You know, it's sort of like, don't you get it? He's not --
COOPER: All right. I mean, he dominates the stage. There's no doubt about it.
KING: That the biggest unanswered question in this race, we know Cruz is the social conservative Tea Party candidate. He's running a traditional evangelical now, plus Tea Party which is newer in this presidential cycle from past cycles. He's that candidate.
We've seen it before, Cruz is different. And the thing that makes him different than Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum, he has the money to go on in the organization, to go on. We know Trump is Trump. He's the unorthodox. He's not an ideological Republican candidate. He's not about cutting taxes or shrieking government. It's about strength. It's about bluster. It's about --
COOPER: And anger.
KING: Yeah, and anger. So who is -- will there be? Number one, will there be -- to Ana's point, will there be one credible, real establishment candidate? Marco Rubio thinks it's going to be him. Early on, everyone thought it was going to be Jeb Bush.
Kasich is doing something that's interesting, because he's right. He is in his own lane. Will it work? We don't know. But what he's trying to be is I'm the blue-collar lunch bucket economic guy. Yes, I'll balance the budget traditional Republican values, but he talks about it in a different way.
Trump has everybody else except -- with the exception of Cruz trying to be the strong candidate, trying to be the tough candidate, trying to be the -- and Kasich is staying in his lane --
BORGER: He's not angry.
KING: -- trying to be different. And if it can work in New Hampshire, he's right.
NAVARRO: No, but in Kasich -- but I think Kasich thinks it's a resume election and it is him.
KING: Yeah, right.
NAVARRO: I mean, he keeps talking his 18 years in Washington. He name checked Senator Thurmond which is great in South Carolina, but doesn't mean a lot to this kind of new --
KING: Here is the problem tonight for the Christie, Kasich, Bush crowd, which is that they needed something fundamentally big to happen and something in order to change the trajectory of this race, and they didn't get it.
KING: One of the big problems with John's, also with the scenario John talked about is that early on, so many of those candidates thought that Donald Trump would implode, or he would fade away. If there's one guaranteed that we're going to have in this campaign, and this goes all the way through the general election is that Donald Trump is going to be here to stay in some capacity, even if he doesn't win the nomination.
COOPER: You really imagine a debate stage with just Donald Trump, Cruz, and Rubio and how much would people miss the others?
[00:20:01] I mean, obviously, their supporters would, but just in terms of the focus of the debate?
KING: And that's why it's going to make so -- there's going to be to Ana's point, there's going to be an enormous pressure after New Hampshire to consolidate the line.
COOPER: Quite right.
KING: One of those -- one of the candidates, whether whoever finishes up --
COOPER: One of those random people, I'm not sure that it is.
BORGER: We'll get the pack and...
NAVARRO: If Donald Trump wins, well Trump just get cruises, else...
COOPER: We're going to have a lot more to talk about when we come back. How do candidates' statements for the fact, Tom Foreman has got a reality check right after this.
COOPER: Time for Reality Check from tonight's debate as always, a lot of accusations flying around the stage, we want to get closer look at something Marco Rubio said about Chris Christie and what he does and doesn't support when it comes to gun control, education and Planned Parenthood, Tom Foreman as a Reality Check. Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. All the candidates kept a reality check team hopping tonight and no one more so than Rubio because he was on the attack as for example when he went after Christie saying, he's not conservative enough. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R), FLORIDA: Unfortunately, Gov. Christie has endorsed many of the ideas that Barack Obama supports, whether it's a common core or gun control or the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor or the donation he made to Planned Parenthood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Wow, that's four really fast claims there. So let's go through them quickly. Common core, Chris Christie in fact did support Common Core for a period of time. Now he's changed his view but he was behind it for a while. That claim was true by Rubio.
[0:25:02] Gun control, Chris Christie's stance here has also evolved overtime but undeniably for a period of time, he was following program very similar to what the president now likes, that's also true. Chris Christie said he did not endorse Sonia Sotomayor, a more liberal justice for the Supreme Court, but the record says he did, so that's also true. And on Planned Parenthood, this claimed by Rubio is based on a 20-year old newspaper article in which Christie says, he was misquoted about donating, said he never donated, we don't have any financial record to work this all out, so the best we can say here is, it's complicated.
But that's just one of the areas where Rubio was on the attack, a lot of things to check out. We can learn more about all of it and all the many things we checked out in this debate Anderson by going to cnn.com/realitycheck.
COOPER: All right, Tom, thanks very much. Rebecca here with their -- our panel -- Borger and King, Nia-Malika Henderson, Ana Navarro, Jeffrey Lord, Amanda Carpenter, and Kevin Madden.
Tomorrow, it was interesting -- your point Amanda earlier that tomorrow when kind of the dust settles, some of the exchanges you think that or it hits the Marco Rubio made on Ted Cruz will not seem as authoritative.
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah it was interesting, Marco Rubio and this is a debate tactic called the spread essentially through a bunch of attacks to add at your point, knowing they will not have enough time to answer it. I think it's pretty effective against Chris Christie. The spread that he employed against Ted Cruz, manipulating senate records and votes, their -- people are going to go through that quite deeply. I think, that that will be on Ted Cruz side in the end. But more interesting, broadly higher level with Marco Rubio in this kind of competition he's locked in between Chris Christie, Jeb. I think he is far more assertive and I think he kind of got Chris Christie to blow his lid a little bit later on the debate where they had a question about entitlements. Christie cut them off, and said Marco, you blew it. And it was so unnecessarily mean. I think it showed such immaturity on Chris Christie's part that is really unappealing.
COOPER: In terms of who needs, I mean certainly New Hampshire, I mean, if Chris Christie doesn't have strong showing in New Hampshire, if KC doesn't have strong showing in New Hampshire, if Bush doesn't have strong showing in New Hampshire, I mean, do they have leg in South Carolina?
BORGER: Right. I think the path is very difficult for those three. But also, it depends on how you define strong showing. I mean, you saw Kasich wouldn't tell you whether he needed to be first, second, third, you know that, so because they all want to lower expectations. And Ana knows just about the Bush people, they've been sort of saying well, it used to be, they had to win New Hampshire. Now, they're like well we have to come in on the top. Three in New Hampshire, so everybody spends their lives trying the lower expectations, so they exceed the expectations by the time the --
NAVARRO: But the truth is, out of all the names that we've just mentioned, you know Kasich and Chris Christie had put all their angst in a (inaudible) basket.
BORGER: Yes, absolutely.
NAVARRO: Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have been spending time and have been building teams in South Carolina. We have seen that a slew of endorsement that used to be with Lindsey Graham have gone to Jeb Bush, some have gone to Marco Rubio. They have legs left even if they don't win new -- the establishment lane in New Hampshire. John Kasich and Chris Christie come to the end of the road.
COOPER: Many endorsements matter this time around.
KING: Like the -- yeah.
KING: You know the endorsement matter.
COOPER: I mean, I don't think, I think we're seeing -- I think we're seeing Jeb Bush run a very traditional campaign in South Carolina in a very untraditional cycle. And I think if you look to, I think one of the big problems he's going to have if doesn't win New Hampshire is the amount of money that they spent of their -- The way that they -- how did their organization, to not get first or second place will be a very tough day after spend (inaudible).
KING: And the gaps are going to matter too.
KING: The gaps are going to matter and we're talking about New Hampshire, who come -- let's assume that Trump and Cruz are going to be one and two in Iowa. That's what everything tells you right now. Now 17 days are a long time, a lot could change. But if Trump and Cruz are one and two, who's third in Iowa matters, because that -- if that person is one of the establishment candidates, if it's Rubio or if it's Bush, that will help you at least a bit. At least you can go to New Hampshire then and you've come in ahead of Christie, Kasich and the other guy.
KING: Who (inaudible) is spending money against Marco Rubio and I because we're trying to slow any momentum that he would have there with a third place. And maybe using it for -- to leverage some more momentum in New Hampshire.
COOPER: Toward the end, Bush did try to take on Trump over China. I just want to play that for our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. BUSH: How about Boeing right here within a mile? Do you think that the Chinese if they had a 45% tariff imposed on all their imports wouldn't retaliate and start buying Airbus? Of course they would. This would be devastating for our economy. We need someone with a steady hand being President of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Real quick senator.
J. BUSH: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead senator. Of course we have to get to tactic form.
D. TRUMP: And we don't need a weak person being president of the United States, OK? Because that's what we get if I were Jeb. I tell you what, we don't need that. We don't need that. That's essentially what we have now and we don't need that. And that's why we're in the trouble that we're now. And by the way Jeb you mentioned Boeing, take a look. They order planes. They make Boeing build their plant in China. They don't want them made here. They want those planes made in China. That's not the way the game is supposed to be played.
[0:30:13] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Mr. Bush. Thank you, Mr. Trump. Very briefly. Go ahead.
J. BUSH: Hey, my name was mentioned. My name was mentioned here. The simple fact is that, the plane just being built here is being sold at China. You could -- if you flew in with your 767 then you're right there, right next to the plant.
TRUMP: Now the new planes, I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about in the future that building massive plants in China because China does not want Boeing building their planes, you know they want them built in China because China happens to be smart, the way they do it, not the way we do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Mr. Trump.
J. BUSH: When you head back to the airport tonight, go check and see what the (inaudible) for you.
TRUMP: Oh yeah. I'll check for you.
J. BUSH: Check it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah, I mean -- it's almost hard to watch. Because Jeb Bush has tried this going after Donald time and time again.
COOPER: Time and time again.
HENDERSON: And it doesn't work and he's gone further and further down the stage and Donald Trump is just going up. It's hard to see what his comeback is because he's tried everything. He's tried to say he's the establishment. He's tried to say, he's the most electable candidate that he could do well with different types of voters and expand the parties, wrap up endorsements. He's got a bunch of money.
KING: It's such a battle of two different personalities and two different ways, I mean just for approaching things and looking at things and even probably in human interaction.
COOPER: Jeb Bush thought his role in this race was to be the conservative governor against the Christie and against the Kasich that you get the governor lane, which in Republican presidential primaries, the governor lane is a good lane to have.
Governor Romney, Governor Reagan, Governor Bush. It's not a bad lane to have in Republican primaries traditionally, but as Kevin just noted, forget tradition, forget orthodox. Yeah we'll say one thing. Jeb likes to say he's his own man. He is banking -- you heard him mention first a retired general in South Carolina's support was in the audience. Talked about the Boeing plant, just off the road. He understands that South Carolina, if he can survive via New Hampshire, South Carolina is the end-all-be-all and guess what, for George H.W. Bush wins Iowa, I mean loses Iowa to Bob Dole, wins New Hampshire, South Caroline was the firewall, it was over. George W. Bush wins Iowa, loses New Hampshire John McCain, South Carolina was the firewall, it was over.
In Bush family history, South Carolina matters.
NAVARRO: Nicki Haley, also mentioned the Citadel, I mean he won the shout out towards South Carolina race tonight. But also, look, you know, Jeb is consistently carving a role as the anti-Trump. He's attacking him time and time again and he was again the only guy on that stage today who took him on on the Muslim ban. Who, you know, went after him, he wasn't the only one, but he went after him on the China tariffs. And so for those of us who want alternative to Trump, he's the one that's saying I'm taking up that banner one. There's a lot of people on that stage who don't agree with Trump but don't have the guts to speak up.
CARPENTER: And as a subject, who's going to take on Trump? I think Marco Rubio, a big story line coming out of this is that he has proved that he will get down and dirty with candidates that he's fighting against. And I think that will be pressure on Marco Rubio now to turn that same kind of fire that he toward Ted Cruz and Chris Christie to Donald Trump.
NAVARRO: You wish.
CARPENTER: I think I (inaudible).
NAVARRO: That's called wishful thinking, Amanda.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carrying a message that I'm the establishment guys is not the message to be carrying here. And with all respect to me, that's the message that Jeb got into this with. He still got it, and there he is on stage, trying to push this, and I just don't think it's there, the Muslim comment that he referred to. Trump is the one that got the applause there tonight on that.
COOPER: Right. It wasn't as if there was a huge groundswell with Bush pushing back on Donald Trump. I mean again, that's in the room but certainly polls indicate, you know, a lot of popularity for Trump.
NAVARRO: Oh imagine, the guy is actually saying what he believes, think of that.
NAVARRO: And he's at 5 percent of the polls.
BORGER: Here's the two, the dissonance with Jeb Bush. On the one hand he said tonight, we need somebody with a steady hand being President of the United States. That was his message, you know. I am the anti-Trump as Ana says. On the other hand, on the campaign trail, he kind of calls Trump a jerk and he uses language you kind of wouldn't expect from Jeb Bush because he doesn't have to fight Trump. You know, he doesn't know whether to get sort of down in the mud with him or whether to sort of float above him as the serious guy, right?
COOPER: Right, certainly...
BORGER: It's hard for him.
COOPER: And obviously another kind of big story line going into this, one of the big questions going to this was how would Cruz handle the inevitable questions about Goldman Sachs, in which the New York Times urgently broke when she went after on the captain trail against the New York Times and also as just as a fundraising method. Let's take a look at how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS: Well, Maria, thank you for passing on that hit pace on the front page of the New York Times. Yeah, the nice thing about the mainstream media they don't hide their views, the New York Times a few weeks back had a columnist who wrote a column saying anybody but Cruz had that actually another -- that same columnist wrote a column comparing me to an evil demonic spirit from the movie it follows that jumps apparently from body to body possessing people.
[35:02:00] So you know, the New York Times, and I don't exactly have the warmest of relationships. Now in terms of their really stunning hit piece, what they mentioned is when I was running for senate, unlike Hilary Clinton, I don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds millions of dollars. When I was running for senate just about every lobbyist, just about all of the establishment opposed me in the senate race in Texas. And my opponent Matt Race was worth over 200 million dollars. He put a 25 million dollar check up from his own pocket to fund that campaign. And my wife Heidi and I, we ended up investing everything we own. We took a loan against our assets to invest it in that campaign to defend ourselves against those attacks. And the entire New York Times attack is that I disclosed that loan on one filing with the United States senate that was a public filing. But it was not on a second filing with the FEC.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Is this something that has legs against Cruz?
BORGER: I don't -- Look, the New York Times piece basically said that you couldn't -- There was no proof that he got any favorable terms on his loan, so that's kind of one thing. I think the way it hurts Cruz is that he's sort of this anti-elite candidate, a populous candidate, and a place against that. Because when you look at Ted Cruz, he went to Princeton, he went to Harvard Law. He was a Supreme Court Law Clerk, hew worked for George W. Bush. So you know, this guy came from a very elite establishment lane. His wife works at Goldman Sachs or worked at Goldman Sachs. And so I think it's sort of placed against type. But in the long term I think the argument that he uses, oh this is the New York Times, I think that plays very well with their Republican ...
NAVARRO: I think there were parts of that answer if you take the different parts of that answer individually, they were very effective. But he put so many points into that answer and it was so long-winded and convoluted.
KING: He's singing a five-note tune, when he knew it was just one whistle. But I don't think it will linger. I think he has a much larger body of work as a co-authentic populous with so many of the people that support him. That, I don't think this particular issue is going to move them off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not unlike the Trump situation where charge comes up and the Trump people are just going to keep going anyway. I think the Cruz people are going to stick with Ted Cruz here. They're not going to abandon him because of this.
BORGER: I think the way the answers questions, it is a little long winded. But I also think -- I think it's kind of focusing, it sounds like he's telling the story often times. And I think in the cell, I think people will actually really like that. It worked very well for Newt Gingrich who is often very long-winded too, but I think it works ...
NAVARRO: I got to tell you, I think if anything but folks. I think it come across as having this kind of weird dramatic flare.
HENDERSON: If you sit in a church on Sunday, that's how they'd sound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And his father was ...
COOPER: A church is one of those buildings with these people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand, I invite you to go on Sundays.
COOPER: Judging by the blank look on you.
KING: Hey Ana, managers point out they serve one.
COOPER: All right. Up next, Hilary Clinton who got name checked a lot. And I'll Google them for you right after the break. She weighs in on the kind of treatment she's been getting from Republicans with Jimmy Fallon on the Tonight's Show, that's ahead.
[0:42:01] COOPER: Well the GOP candidates went after Democratic front-runner Hilary Clinton on the debate stage tonight pretty much everyone took swipes at her, here is just a sampling
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: You cannot give Hilary Clinton a third term of Barrack Obama's leadership. I will not do that if I'm the nominee. She won't get within 10 miles to the White House.
RUBIO: I would go first of all one step further in this description of Hilary Clinton. She wouldn't just be a disaster. Hilary Clinton is disqualified from being commander in chief of the United States.
CRUZ: Unlike Hilary Clinton, I don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars.
BUSH: Everybody on the stage is better than Hilary Clinton. And at the end of the day, we need to unite behind the winners so that we can defeat Hilary Clinton because she is a disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Hilary Clinton was on a different stage tonight over the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon talking about her treatment by GOP Candidates, as she sees it, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, THE TONIGHT SHOW HOST: I think you're dodging while watching these debates. You'll do anything to not watch the Republican Debates. HILARYCLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, I think you've nailed it.
FALLON: Yeah. Do you -- You have to watch the debates, right?
CLINTON: We'll usually, I'm not home when the debates are going on. I've had other things that I'm out doing. So I do try to catch up on them. And I love to be able to fast forward.
FALLON: That's always nice, that's always fun. But what is it? Is it Hilary Clinton with a bowl of popcorn and just sitting back with a glass of wine, watching them going "ugh this is no, ugh that's wrong or that's". Do you watch with Bill, does Bill watch as well?
CLINTON: Sometimes, yeah.
FALLON: Does he then do it, does he like pause it and like stand up, like a football coach, "like that's not how you do it, that's not no, that's -- he's making a mistake, he should have win". You know.
CLINTON: Were you over like were you on the kitchen, we were laughing at it.
FALLON: Does he do that?
CLINTON: We'll you know, he does everyone in commentary. We both do. Can you believe what he just said?
FALLON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CLINTON: What is that mean? I have no idea. Yeah, we have an ongoing dialogue about it.
FALLON: Because you have to know and gosh, I hope it doesn't happen but they might say something bad about you.
CLINTON: Oh yeah.
FALLON: Do you believe that?
CLINTON: That's happened more than a few times.
FALLON: Yeah, you should have a drinking game. Every time they say your name, you do a shot.
FALLON: It's fun.
CLINTON: You know, I don't think I'd make it pass the first half hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean I wonder -- It'd would be interesting to see the kind of word count on this. But did it seem to you that they were talking about Hilary Clinton as much this time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was a little more.
COOPER: You thought it was more?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, I thought it was over more for the obvious reasons that we're getting closer and closer here. And she's in the news. One of the things that I thought was interesting is we mentioned was that Jeb Bush remark about the FBI. I mean I think that's a real story here that's out there. And so the fact that this was mentioned, no small thing. I think we will be hearing about this again from Republican Candidates.
BORGER: I think a lot of them spent more time talking about Barack Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was lot them.
[0:45:00] NAVARRO: Then about the, you know, presumptive nominee. Now frankly, Bernie Sander has given her such a run for money, maybe she's not the presumptive nominee anymore.
COOPER: Yeah. But I think part of that was the fact that the state of the union was just, you know, two days ago. So it was sort of fresh in people's mind.
BORGER: Yeah, they were talking about the union speech and how, you know, Obama painted a rosy picture. But you know, we don't hear that, is the Hillary Clinton emails from the Republicans anymore? We used to hear about that constantly. I think they probably --
CARPENTER: -- and saying, Hillary Clinton would be going between the White House and --
BORGER: Oh, that was Jeb Bush.
COOPER: That was Jeb Bush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't need to go to search for that.
BORGER: From the FBI.
CARPENTER: First they're saying he wouldn't let Hillary Clinton get within 10 miles to the White House. I just picture him closing the bridges into Washington.
BORGER: Yeah, of course she can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is a mile away.
BORGER: -- emails and whatever but -- KING: The other thing Hillary Clinton said though at the Jimmy Fallon
conversation was that, her lead over Bernie Sanders was artificial. She always knew it was going to disappear, it was going to get tight and she's very excited by that. We should send that to Tom.
COOPER: -- she doesn't pay attention polls and, you know.
HENDERSON: It mean, she cited another poll, I think after she said, she's --
KING: Yeah, she's really happy to not be inevitable again.
COOPER: It was kind of interesting, though I don't think actually Donald Trump mentioned Hillary Clinton. I might be wrong about that but he certainly --
BORGER: But he did mentioned polls.
COOPER: Yes, he certainly even with the real clear one afterwards. But again -- I mean, in terms of ground game in Iowa, ground game in New Hampshire, I mean, does Trump have the ground game?
BORGER: We don't know.
COOPER: We don't know.
BORGER: We don't know.
COOPER: Because it was a very critical article in the New York Times --
COOPER: -- raising questions about his ground game certainly, I think it was in Iowa.
BORGER: Right. And honestly, you never know until you know.
BORGER: -- in Iowa, I mean, I remember when Howard Dean, you know, when we all thought, oh my God, Howard Dean is going to mobilize all these voters in Iowa and he didn't. And I think that we don't know about Donald Trump just like in a way we didn't know about Barack Obama and he either could bring in all these new people to the caucuses or he could not. And we just -- it takes organization, it takes passion. We know he's got the passion from his supporters. We don't know that he's got the buzzes to get them to the caucuses or the organization --
COOPER: Although when you --
KING: With all these things now.
KING: I mean, the business is changed so much.
COOPER: What do you mean, it's --
KING: The campaign, the campaign. It's just so digital. Now, it used to be --
KING: Sorry, I remember rotary phones.
KING: When you went into a phone bank and people were using rotary phones and they had a list and they use to --
COOPER: Tell me, Pepe (ph) what was that --
KING: Yeah. You know, you had a piece of paper and you had a check -- pencils and paper and you went door-to-door. You still -- people still go door-to-door. They still canvas and that's still valuable. But now, it is -- they get your email, they get your phone number, they text you, they want you to communicate back, they ask you questions about, you know, which --what your caucus site to get test your level, and then, they put you on a list, you're A, you're, you know, you're solid you're going to vote. B, I think you're solid we're going follow-up a couple more time. C and D, we got to work this person.
You know, Obama's campaign was very effective at that. The Cruz campaign has spent a lot of money on that. And we'll see if the Trump campaign, A, do they have that level of sophistication? And B, do they need it?
KING: 40-year -- that would work on that.
COOPER: When you have 10,000 people coming to a stadium to see you and waiting for two hours sometimes in the cold to go in --
COOPER: I mean, that's another way of showing some level of commitment on it.
HENDERSON: It is. Right, it's true. And the thing is Donald Trump has already upset a lot of the conventional wisdom about how campaigns are run and who does well. It could be that this sort of passion and attachment that so many of these people feel about Donald Trump could drive them out there --
KING: The difference between winning the caucuses and losing caucuses in Iowa is knowing and guessing, and I think that's one of the things right now is, we're all good guessing, we're all going to be guessing on election night, whether or not they show up. And I think one thing that you do know about the Cruz operation and you hear this from all the political professionals out there is that when they go out there and they gauge voters on their intensity of one to 100, they're getting high intensity feedback from these voters.
And not only that, but those same voters are saying, not only am I voting, I'm going to find 10 of my friends --
BORGER: That's the important --
MADDEN: And that's probably the difference between winning the caucuses and losing.
Now, I think a lot of Trump people say, I'm for Trump but the question is are they organizing, are they going out there and serving as precinct volunteers and going out and getting 10 other, that will be the difference on election day.
CARPENTER: Yeah, on the Trump, question, I think it's really important to consider and remember that Trump is a media maestro. He knows how to say relevant in the media, dominate the media, dominate the polls also. These are the things that are not necessary persuasive to GOP primary voters. So while we may be consumed by them and the media attention keeps them up in the polls, the GOP base have shown over and over again, they don't care about what the media.
NAVARRO: Yeah, but you know what, this is not an over and over again year, the rules didn't apply. It is a so generous year, it stands on its own. So I think Kevin is absolutely right.
[00:50:00] We really will not know until caucus night whether those folks that show up to those rallies are going to show up and stand there, you know, in a corner and listen to 11, 12 speeches and stand there, you know, four hours waiting to cast their vote, well, we simply don't know.
BORGER: The Cruz campaign is all about the data and in Iowa and the Trump campaign is all about passion of their supporters. And I think when it comes to getting out your voters, you may want to air on the side of the data in a caucus because it takes a lot of work. And if you have people persuading their friends as Kevin was talking about, that's invaluable. And the Cruz campaign knows exactly where these people are. They know who is persuadable and they're going after them because they are Obama 4.0 when it comes to technology.
HENDERSON: -- voters, it's the home schoolers --
BORGER: Yeah, evangelical and --
HENDERSON: Evangelical book.
COOPER: When we get the entrance polls before we get the results? I mean, they're never definitive, but you'll -- look, what's the percent of Evangelicals turning up for the caucuses? Well, 57 percent last time. It was a huge slice of electorate. That's the first time he knew -- maybe this isn't Mitt Romney's night, 57 percent and Romney and Santorum essentially tied. Santorum just beat him. So look at that number -- look at the percentage of people who say they're first time caucus goers. If that number's higher than normal, that's good for Trump.
LORD: And at the end of the day, will the results matter? Or will they, you know, well there you go.
COOPER: We're talking about passion and intensity which drives people to vote, sometimes moments matter. Here's one Trump's exchange with Cruz over New York values. Listen.
TED CRUZ, FORMER SENATOR: I think most people know exactly what New York values are.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK: I am from New York. I don't.
CRUZ: What -- you're from New York? So you might not.
But I promise you, in the state of South Carolina, they do.
And listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of New York. But everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro- gay-marriage, focus around money and the media.
And I would note indeed, the reason I said that is I was asked -- my friend Donald has taken to at its events playing Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA," and I was asked what I thought of that.
And I said, "well, if he wanted to play a song, maybe he could play, 'New York, New York?" And you know, the concept of New York values is not that complicated to figure out. Not too many years ago, Donald did a long interview with Tim Russert. And in that interview, he explained his views on a whole host of issues that were very, very different from the views he's describing now.
In his explanation -- he said, "look, I'm from New York, that's what we believe in New York. Those aren't Iowa values, but this is what we believe in New York." And so that was his explanation.
And I guess I can frame it another way. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.
BARTIROMO: Are you sure about that?
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEW HOST: Maria.
TRUMP: So conservatives actually do come out of Manhattan, including William F. Buckley and others, just so you understand.
And just so -- if I could, because he insulted a lot of people. I've had more calls on that statement that Ted made. That New York is a great place. It's got great people, it's got loving people, wonderful people.
COOPER: And would employ the full response by Trump but invoking 9/11 --
COOPER: -- and obviously is essentially shutting Cruz down, he knew better than to try to respond to that.
KING: Trump won that exchange and this is a case where, you know, Ted Cruz rally or town hall in Iowa or in South Carolina, that line works. But Donald Trump is not there to answer you there. On a debate stage when Trump is there and it's no -- you know, I new this is going to come up or at least Trump was prepared for it because it had been a conversation during the week. Trump was prepared and he hit it.
NAVARRO: Listen, the problem Cruz has on this issue is that he's a little late to the party. Four months when, you know, Trump started surging, we've all been saying, many of us in the party have been saying, he's not a true conservative. He's not a true Republican. Look at what he's been ongoing, look at what he's been gay rights, look at what he's been on reproductive rights, look at, you know, look at his entire life, he is not a Republican.
Now, where was Ted Cruz, the Vanguard or the, you know, a conservative movement, he was sucking up to Donald Trump who he thought was not going to withstand the rigors of the race and he could inherit those followers. Well, it's a little too late now to be turning around.
CARPENTER: Well, in a primary election, you always want to be attracted to other voters. I mean, Ted Cruz is not attacking Ted Cruz's work for him. He's risen up in the polls and you see what Jeb Bush is doing to say Marco Rubio going out in nasty and hard in a way that Marco Rubio supporters will probably never go to Jeb Bush. I think it's a terrible tactic into --
LORD: This will step up, through, I mean, we're getting close here as the days are taking off here.
[00:54:59] LORD: This will be defined and there will be more attacks.
KING: Someone with the Yonkers New York values, I will predict that with the New York values --
BORGER: Is God.
KING: -- Line of attack will start to fade away. BORGER: Yes.
KING: We won't hear it again.
NAVARRO: No but Jeffrey is right. What we saw tonight is, you know, setting the tone for the next two weeks, the next month.
NAVARRO: We, you know, Trump and Cruz are going to continue going at each other very hard. Cruz and Rubio are going to continue hitting each other like Pinatas, you know, we saw Rubio hit -- you know Cruz is so hard today and that exchange has been going on for almost 2 and a half months. And we're going to see the three big dogs at the establishment lanes trying to make a name for themselves and come out of the pack.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break, we'll be right back.
COOPER: It's been quite evening tonight in South Carolina here as well. They'll be voting here in just a matter of weeks now and a lot sooner in New Hampshire and Iowa. The stakes keep growing and as we saw it tonight it really showed on the stage were things got go from here, anybody's guess but it's pretty safe to say, you will not want to miss a minute of it which is why will be here for all of it. Thanks tonight -- to everyone, to our paneled, to our experts, to our analysts or commentators, our entire election team, everybody in the floor, will see you tomorrow night or more accurately later today for another edition of 360 --