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Awaiting Remarks From Trump at Campaign Donors Dinner; "El Chapo" Extradited to United States. Aired 8-9pET

Aired January 19, 2017 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:14] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening from Washington. We're at the end of a very full day, ahead of an even bigger day tomorrow.

President-elect Trump is due shortly at a candlelight dinner at Union Station, not far from where we are tonight. You're watching some of the arrivals right now.

Both the president-elect and Vice President-elect Pence are expected to speak. Mr. Trump at the dinner, Governor Pence at the Indiana Ball.

It's the capper to a day that brought moments of quiet ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery and loud celebrations and clear signals that the next four years will be very different than the last eight.

We also heard from the guest of honor, the president-elect, making surprise remarks on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I will see you tomorrow, and I'm going to be cheering you on. You're going to cheer me on, but I'm going to be cheering you on because what we've done is so special. All over the world they're talking about it. All over the world.

And I love you folks. And we're going to work together. And we are going to make America great again. And I'll add, greater than ever before.

Thank you very much. And enjoy the fireworks. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.


COOPER: President-elect Trump at tonight's Lincoln Memorial celebration.

Take a look at this. A hallway in the West Wing, all of the Obamas photos taken down already, the frames empty, waiting for the Trumps to fill them.

More now on this historic day from CNN's Jim Acosta. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The moment few saw coming has arrived. Donald Trump in the nation's new first family touched down just outside Washington not on his private jet but on U.S. military aircraft and climbed into his motorcade for a ride the world will never forget.

TRUMP: What a beautiful room this is. Where is this? Where is this? This is a gorgeous room. A total genius must have built this.

ACOSTA: Within minutes, Trump arrived at, where else, but his glitzy new D.C. hotel where he praised his cabinet choices.

TRUMP: We have, by far, the highest IQ of any cabinet ever seen.

ACOSTA: And appeared to have signed his new ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, a task normally reserved for the secretary of state, a trip to China.

TRUMP: When I her over to speak to China and when I send her over to speak to everybody, we're going to have -- I think we're going to do a lot of great things, Nikki, right?

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Our job is to be ready on day one. The American people can be confident that we will be.

ACOSTA: But the Trump team insists the incoming president who laid a wreath at Arlington National Cemetery is approaching his biggest deal yet with the seriousness it deserves.

At a pre-inaugural concert at the Lincoln Memorial, Trump sang along to "Proud To Be An American."

And offered a preview of his speech to the world tomorrow.

TRUMP: We're going to unify our country, and our phrase, you all know it, half of you are wearing the hat, "Make America Great Again".


But we're going to make America great for all of our people.

ACOSTA: Trump's children are making it clear their father will adhere to some presidential norms with Ivanka declaring her step mother, Melania, will indeed be first lady.

IVANKA TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: Well, I think it's an inappropriate observation. There's one first lady and she'll do remarkable things.

ACOSTA: Even as Trump team concedes this will be a presidency like we've never seen before.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Their first dance, what song?



COOPER: And Jim Acosta joins us now from the White House.

So, Jim, what can we expect to hear from President-elect Trump tomorrow? I know we're waiting for his comments tonight. We'll bring those as soon as we can. But tomorrow, what's the expectation?

ACOSTA: Well, Anderson, we just heard from the incoming White House counselor Kellyanne Conway, she said that the inaugural speech is written. Donald Trump wrote it along with his key speechwriter Steven Miller.

We're told by aides that it will be thematic, not really a laundry list or State of the Union-like address. He is going to be getting, quote, "philosophical" when he speaks to the world tomorrow.

But there will be some items on his to-do list included in that speech like infrastructure and dealing with rebuilding manufacturing in this country.

Anderson, I have to tell you, just because you showed that picture at the top of the show of the empty hallways inside the White House, I just was roaming around portions of the West Wing a few moments, you really do get the sense that the world is changing tonight, overnight tonight. It is a somber moment here at the White House and Donald Trump will begin to make his mark here tomorrow -- Anderson.

[20:05:03] COOPER: All right. Jim Acosta, thanks very much.

With us tonight, CNN political analyst Kirsten Powers, "INSIDE POLITICS" anchor John King, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, also, CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash, CNN senior political commentator and Axe Files podcast host, David Axelrod is here. He's seen a couple of these with President Obama. So is Trump supporter, "American Spectator" senior contributor Jeffrey Lord during the Reagan years, and former Obama senior adviser, Van Jones, who joins us as well tonight, along with "The Daily Beast's" Matt Lewis.

I mean, a lot to talk about, but, Dana, just -- it is happening. I mean, do you see --


COOPER: --you have a real sense of Washington today walking around the levers of power are shifting and the kind of pomp and ceremony of it all has begun?

BASH: No question about it. And, you know, we saw just throughout the afternoon and early evening, the first sort of official act of the inaugural celebration was a solemn one with Donald Trump going and laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns. And then, of course, what is even though he said it was the first one, it is a tradition, certainly not the first time, a president-elect has had a concert at the Lincoln Memorial. You know, what was notable to me was that he certainly seemed to be

having fun. He gave more of a unity themed speech or at least remarks than I think we've heard in recent past. But he definitely is still obsessed with the crowd. That's not going to change.

In fact, I'll just tell you after he laid the wreath, I texted an aide who was with him and said does he have any thoughts, anything he wants to express about the moment? And the response was, the crowds are bigger than we expected, it's a very special day.


GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And he also talked about the polls and it was a little extraordinary that he would do that. I mean, you have to think that he's thinking about the size of this job and growing into it. You can't be anything but humble as you go through what he went through today, particularly laying the wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown.

Tomorrow, getting the nuclear codes, getting the letter in the drawer from the outgoing president of the United States. One of his children this morning said that you -- maybe it hasn't dawned op him totally. I think it becomes kind of a gradual thing until you get there and then you're sitting in the Oval Office and something happens.

I remember with Barack Obama, it was day one.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Day one. Even before day one. We were concerned about a potential terrorist threat on the inaugural ceremonies. We were meeting and discussing that the night before the inauguration. You cannot escape the enormity of this job. It comes and greets you at the door.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: One thing that's interesting, we are kind of baffled by him concerned about the crowds and the popularity. Let's not forget, he sees himself as leading a movement.


JONES: And movements have a mass phenomenon as well as a governing phenomenon. And so, when he's talking about the crowds, that's just -- that's not all he's egotistical. He certainly is egotistical, but that's part of strategy.

BASH: I didn't mean to say it was baffling. It was noteworthy, because he is -- in that way, he is the same Donald Trump.

LORD: I can tell you I went to the concert and spent a fair amount of time walking and talking to --

COOPER: Your band performed.

AXELROD: You were excellent, by the way.


BASH: Was that you on the drums?

LORD: That was me on the drums. I didn't think you'd notice.

COOPER: You're fourth eye blind.


LORD: But these people are very enthusiastic. They are really, really revved up. And, you know, when Lee Greenwood came out there and sang, sentimental for me because President Reagan was sort of fist focused on that song and sang it at the Republican National Convention in 1984, and it sort of became the Reagan anthem, and these people were standing up and cheering. It was very emotional.


BORGER: The president-elect did a little karaoke there during that song as well. He was singing.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the moment is so important for him and for the country because of the rawness of the moment. I made a mistake earlier today when he arrived in Washington, we were on the air.

He was coming down the steps at Andrews Air Force Base, and I said I know the emotions who are raw there. I know there a lot of people who don't like this, who are mad about this, who are afraid of this, or anxious about this, but I hope all Americans could pause just for a moment and celebrate our democracy. That the world watches this peaceful transition of power.

I was lit up in the Twitterverse by people who told me I was nuts to suggest they'd pause and celebrate anything.

BASH: Normalizing --

KING: It wasn't even about him but they think that you're trying to say that everything's fine. Tonight, you're getting e-mails from all these Democratic groups up to the inauguration trying to raise money of what's going to happen tomorrow.

The president of the United States is -- the president -- the man who will be president is preparing a speech we're told will be unifying. And, good, that's his job. The question is, to those who have not -- he has not reached out a lot during the transition, to those who didn't vote for him, those he opposed, to those whose temperatures he might be trying to turn down or anxieties he might be trying to lessen.

[20:10:04] So, will they believe it? Even if it's a wonderful, perfect personal speech, will they believe it?

He has to start because he's about to govern. The challenge is different. Today is the last act.

COOPER: It is though an extraordinary transfer of power. KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It is. And inauguration isn't

about Donald Trump. It's a moment not just for the U.S. for the entire world. The entire world looks to the United States for stability, for leadership. You know, everybody is watching.

It's the biggest day of his life as well. This is somebody who is not a politician, it's not like he has spent his whole life thinking I'm going to be president. His life will change dramatically.

He's lived in New York his entire life. He's phenomenon in every day and talked to his kids about the business, and now, he's going to be going to the White House and will be responsible for the most powerful nation in the world.

AXELROD: I agree. Think about what's going to happen tomorrow morning. Barack Obama and Michelle Obama are going to meet with the Trumps. Their families are going to meet. They're going to go to a church service together. They're going to ride to the Capitol together.

These two men who couldn't be more different and have more different views on some major issues. And yet, this is our rite of passage in our democracy and it's a distinguishing feature of our democracy.

MATT LEWIS, THE DAILY BEAST: I was going to say, it's also comforting because this campaign has been so unusual and it's been unprecedented and people who -- conservative people who value tradition and sort of a Burkean political philosophy have all these changes thrown at them. This is nice we have this ceremony where there is tradition of civility and people coming together.

BORGER: I think your word comforting is so right. It's serene, it's orderly, it's respectful, and it's so admiral. The way this transition --

KING: The Twitterverse is going to blow up.


COOPER: If Donald Trump -- I mean, you know, there's a suggestion maybe Donald Trump hasn't fully kind of appreciated the enormity of what he is, but you can't help I assume being him today you're surrounded by military personnel, by Secret Service. You're seeing all these people come out. You're in the nation's cap tap and you are in the midst of this tradition.

KING: You'll never get the sentence humble and Donald Trump past an editor.

I don't mean that disrespectfully. Barack Obama has a big ego. Bill Clinton had a big ego. George W. Bush --

COOPER: You cannot be a president without having a --.

KING: But I think the history of the moment, how does that settle with him? Because go back in time, let's go back to Jeffrey's days. When Ronald Reagan became president, he had been the governor of California.

COOPER: By the way --


BASH: I was just going to say.

KING: I mean his experience. I don't mean --

BAHS: I knew it --

AXELROD: Mine is well preserved.

KING: Reagan was the governor of California. George H.W. Bush had been vice president and ambassador to China. Bill Clinton had been a several term governor of Arkansas on a national stage for years. George W. Bush, of course, had been around the White House his adult life, governor of Texas.

Barack Obama was a senator, a newcomer but if you've had the good fortune to speak to any current or former president or read their memoirs, they all talk about that moment when they realized, wow. It would be fascinating to talk to Donald Trump a month from now to see about the wow.

COOPER: We've got to take a break. We have a lot more of our panel ahead, over the next two hours.

There's also more breaking news tonight: El Chapo, Mexico's most notorious drug lord, has now been extradited to the United States to face multiple charges. There's a reason why it's happening before tomorrow's inauguration. We'll talk about that.

Plus, Donald Trump's pick for energy and treasury secretary in the hot seat on Capitol Hill. What Rick Perry had to say today about heading the department he once said he wanted to abolish.

And President-elect Trump expected to talk any minute tonight. We're going to bring it to you on this historic evening.


[20:17:34] KING: We are waiting for President-elect Donald Trump to speak tonight at dinner for campaign donors. We're going to bring you those comments as soon as we get them. His motorcade about to leave Blair House, where he's going to head to the venue at Union Station, which is about a five-minute drive across town. We'll bring that to you as I said when it happens.

Meanwhile, the current president, Barack Obama, taking one more parting shot or at least taking away the opportunity for Mr. Trump to take credit for extraditing the notorious drug lord, Joaquin Guzman, or El Chapo, to the United States. We've just learned that Mr. Guzman is now in U.S. custody on his way to the United States. And again the timing on the eve of the inauguration doesn't seem like an accident.

CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez joins me.

So, what is the latest and is this coincidental, the timing of this?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No, there was no coincidence here at all, Anderson. He is -- El Chapo is in the air right now. He's expected to land in New York, probably in the next hour and a half or so.

This was an extradition that the Mexican government wanted to do before Barack Obama left office. He wanted -- the Mexican government said today that the final court there in that country had finally ruled to reject El Chapo's petition to prevent the extradition. The Justice Department had sent a team, an aircraft with a team from the DEA, from ICE and from the U.S. Marshal Service to pick him up waiting for this court ruling.

And when that happened today, he was put onboard this flight from Ciudad Suarez on board this flight to New York. We now expect that he's going to appear in court in Brooklyn tomorrow, Anderson.

COOPER: So what happens then? I mean, he appears in court. What is he facing?

PEREZ: Well, he's facing an indictment there for essentially running the Sinaloa cartel, hundreds of thousands of pound of cocaine imported into this country by that cartel. And, obviously, this is a big win for the Obama administration. This is something that they had arranged. And it's clearly the politics here have been -- was weighing on all of these negotiations behind the scenes.

As you know, the Mexican government is not very keen on Donald Trump's claims that the Mexican government is going to pay for this wall that he plans to build. So, it is clear that one of the reasons why they wanted to do this now, right before Barack Obama leaves office was to make sure that Donald Trump couldn't claim victory for this.

COOPER: Evan Perez -- Evan, thanks very much.

Back now with the panel.

What do you make of the timing of this, John?

[20:20:02] KING: Here in the United States we often --

COOPER: In fact, I'm sorry. This is Donald Trump, President-elect Trump, and Melania Trump coming out of Blair House now. As we said, there you are, going to be. I think you see Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, the rest of the Trump family.

They are going to be heading over to Union Station, the main train station which also has events at night. Union Station shut down for this event. This is an event for donors, and Donald Trump is expected to make statements, comments at the event. We believe we will have those for you.

Mike Pence will be there as well. And then we're told the vice president-elect will head over to another party for the Indiana donors and delegates and representatives at another hotel. He's expected to make comments there as well. And we hope to bring those to you.

So, as soon as Donald Trump speaks at this event at Union Station, we'll bring that to you. There you see the motorcade.

As we continue to watch these images -- John, the timing of the extradition -- I mean, Evan Perez saying there is no doubt this is not just a coincidence.

KING: We often say in the United States, all politics is local. It's an old phrase Tip O'Neill used to like to use.

All politics is also sometimes personal. I was in communications with a Mexican diplomat here in Washington earlier tonight who said they are elated they were able to get this done before hand. I said because of the timing? He said we are elated to do this during the Obama presidency.

The diplomat trying to be somewhat diplomatic, but you can read between the not so subtle message. No question, Donald Trump is a candidate, did go down to Mexico. He had the meeting with the president but he said during the transition, he continues to say Mexico will pay for the wall. If they don't write a check, he will impose tariffs or find some way to do it.

So, he's off to a rough start with the Mexican government. And this is one last message I think from the Mexican government saying if you work with us and talk to us, and work with us and we have a friendly relationship, it can be a productive relationship.

COOPER: It is going to be, though, be Donald Trump's Justice Department which prosecutes El Chapo.

BASH: No question. And that is -- and I should say, but that is going to go through the normal process of the way the American government prosecutes somebody like El Chapo. This is, as John says, simply a way to deprive Donald Trump of the victory of saying, oh, look, Barack Obama's gone, I got him out of Mexico.

AXELROD: We should point out all politics is local and the Mexican President Nieto suffered greatly for that meeting with Trump down in Mexico because he didn't challenge him on the wall and there were great political reverberations. So this little shot probably helps in some small way repair that --

LORD: On the other hand, this is confirmation that Donald Trump scored home with this issue because -- I mean, El Chapo and drugs and all of that sort of thing, he was going around repeatedly --



LORD: Trump was going around repeatedly saying that drugs are coming over the border. POWERS: That's not what happened, though.


POWERS: Basically after the Mexican government, after the second time El Chapo escaped, sort of occurred to the Mexican government they couldn't really keep him and they decided finally they wanted to extradite him. So this process has been going on -- it has nothing to do with Donald Trump.


COOPER: We should point out the threat of extradition is something that's been held over drug lords time immemorial and is something that many drug lords, both in Colombia and elsewhere, have feared more than anything the idea of being sent to a U.S. prison.

JONES: But this is part -- what you saw my good friend Jeffrey Lord do is exactly why the Mexican government didn't want to send him under the Trump administration. It's not just to sort of give a jab. It's that Donald Trump would then reinvent history and say no one was doing anything about this until I started talking about it and me, Donald Trump, my mouth moving, changed everything. And nobody who's the head of state wants to deal with that and that's why --


LORD: To me, this is the same thing at the Iranians looking at the possibility -- the realization that Ronald Reagan was going to put his hand on that Bible and say --


JONES: Reagan.


LORD: He's back in the day. Anderson loved that.


LEWIS: Maybe Trump's not Reagan, but Mexico might be Iran. That's the -- they want to embarrass somebody.

BORGER: No. Well, but look --

JONES: They don't want to be embarrassed more likely.

BORGER: Donald Trump can say, we're going to prosecute him to the fullest and take it from there, but he can't take away the fact this happened the day before he took office.


JONES: By the way, just because of the level of carnage that's happening on both sides of the border, can we also just be happy -- LORD: Yes.

JONES: This guy is not going to escape an American prison, I can tell you that. Hopefully, this begins to be the end of a lot of blood and pain and suffering for both countries.

AXELROD: My guess is the timing of his lease will be a little footnote in the history of next few days.

BASH: No question.

AXELROD: I don't think it will make --

LORD: Right.

COOPER: Well, also, I mean, one guy like him disappears, there's a vacuum and people to fill his place.

[20:25:04] BORGER: Exactly.

COOPER: This is not going away.

LORD: Hence, the need for the wall.


COOPER: Jeffrey Lord --

BORGER: Thank you, Jeffrey.

BASH: He knows how to build tunnels.

AXELROD: Maybe they want to get him out, before he gets sealed in by the wall.

COOPER: Awaits Donald Trump on day one in the White House, we're going to talk to President George W. Bush's former chief of staff Andy Card. He joins me about he enormity of inauguration day itself and what the first hours of a new administration are like.


COOPER: We are in Washington, D.C., of course on the eve of this historic presidential inauguration. As we've said, President-elect Donald Trump is heading to a candlelight dinner at Union Station. There you see his motorcade. He's going to Union Station, which is not far from us.

Afterwards, he's going to spend the night at Blair House, which is part of the tradition and in less than 16 hours, he will take the oath of office, becoming the 45th president of the United States, a day full of ceremony and celebration, a life-changing day.

Only those who have actually experienced it, though, can know what it feels like. Andy Card had a key role in day one of George W. Bush's administration. I'm very pleased that Mr. Card joins us now.

Thank you so much for being with us.


COOPER: So, you were chief of staff at the beginning, what is that -- I can't imagine what that first day is like. When the ceremony is done and you're at the White House and that is your White House.

[20:30:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Card joins us now. Thank you so much for being with us.


COOPER: So, you were chief of staff at the beginning. What is that -- I can't imagine what that first day is like when the ceremony is done and you're at the White House and it's your White House.

CARD: The truth is one minute after 12:00, when the president takes the oath of office, he is the president. So there is no transition. You don't say, oh, good, I'll get a good night's sleep and then I'll meet the responsibilities.

The chief of staff's job is to understand that and to make sure that there is an infrastructure in place on minute one to help the president with some of the impossible challenges he might have, especially with regard to national security policy.

COOPER: And one of the first things, and correct me if I'm wrong, the president gets is that briefing from military official about the nuclear code.

CARD: That is generally done before he actually goes up to take the oath of office. It will either be done tonight or early tomorrow morning. And --

COOPER: I would think they would do it in the morning so you don't lose a night of sleep. How could you sleep with that?

CARD: It is unbelievably sobering.

COOPER: Right.

CARD: And it's impressive because the military teaches the president -- I think it's one of the most memorable experiences that a president will have. As president-elect, they will have a military officer come in to him with a suitcase, we call it the football, and will say, this is what we will do if you want it done. And we will do it if you say to do it. So this is not a debate. You're going to have the responsibility. And I will confirm that you've met the responsibility and when you say the code and push the buttons and whatever it is, things will happen.

COOPER: So that conversation is not about conscience or anything.


COOPER: It's about you say this and this happens.

CARD: They will do --

COOPER: Right.

CARD: -- what the president orders. So, the oath that the presidents take comes right from article 2 in the constitution. It calls to him to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution. And it's the shortest oath taken by anybody and those are unique words. Others take to protect and defend, and da, da, da, da. So preserve, protect, and defend the constitution.

But the president cannot keep his oath without other people keeping their oaths, and many of them take an oath to follow the command of the commander-in-chief. And there's no conditional clause to it. It's not like you can say if I voted for him or if I like him or I agree with him. And that sobering bit of advice, it's not advice, it's reality, that the president gets from the military when they say you make he decision, if you make the decision, we will do it.

COOPER: This is a dumb question, but how do -- when you get into the White House and you're there, you're the chief of staff, he's the president, how do you know exactly what to do? I mean if you haven't already served in the White House in some capacity, you know, it's like you're suddenly running a corporation that you've just stepped into. How do you know?

CARD: Oh, I was fortunate. I had served in the Reagan White House and the Bush 41 White House before --

COOPER: So you see how it was done?

CARD: I did. I served under phenomenal chief of staffs, James A. Baker III, John Reagan, Howard Baker, Kenny Duberstein, John Sununu, Sam Skinner, I've seen a lot of them.

COOPER: And that was critical for you.

CARD: It was. It made a big difference. But, Reince Priebus has -- number one, I think he's a good choice to be chief of staff. I think he does have the truth to speak -- he does have the courage to speak truth to power.

He understands what it means to be responsible for things happening at the White House. But he hired a deputy for operations who was my deputy for operations.


CARD: And that was very comforting, his name is Joe Whitehouse Hagin, and he was one of the first people I hired --

COOPER: Whitehouse actually his middle name or?

CARD: Whitehouse actually his middle name. But he is outstanding at understanding how the responsibilities of the president get met --

COOPER: Right.

CARD: So he knows scheduling in advance, relationship with the secret service, relationship with the White House military office, he understands what it means to worry about the continuity of the president and the continuity of government. He's excellent. So I'm comforted by that.

COOPER: How do you see the transition for this president so far? Because there have been some concerns that, I mean, not only -- obviously, all the nominations but some of the number two is the number three is having --

CARD: Well, he, first of all, he did a remarkable job of getting someone named to every position in the cabinet so he's done that.

COOPER: Right.

CARD: And their hearings are going well. They're controversial. There's always controversy.

COOPER: They're going to get it.

CARD: They're going to get it. And I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. He should have the people around him that he wants and he should be held accountable for it. I do think they are too slow on the number twos, threes, and fours in the department.

COOPER: Because those are critical.

CARD: Very critical. Because the secretary leads the department but it's really the deputy secretary that manages just the department. And you need to have that management infrastructure in because the career employees and the vast majority of people who work for the government are career public servants and they actually want to do a good job. But they want leadership. And they want to have someone who will take responsibility.

[20:35:01] So it's critical to get those positions filled. And I think they're little behind on it. I've and encouraged them to be more active about getting deputy secretaries nominated, getting assistant secretaries nominated and filling the White House operational positions quickly because the White House has to really function on minute one.

COOPER: There's a lot different leadership styles a president can have. Ronald Reagan had a different leadership style.

CARD: Yes.

COOPER: From Jimmy Carter or whatever. What would you -- If you were giving a piece of advice to President-elect Trump, what would it be? CARD: It would be allow your chief of staff to be the chief of staff. Don't hire people in very senior positions who have no portfolio of responsibility. You know, if they're just going to advise everybody --

COOPER: Right.

CARD: -- that means they don't own any problem but, boy, they question everybody else who does own the problem.

COOPER: That's interesting.

CARD: And so.

COOPER: And especially if that person is adviser (ph) just has the ear of the president more than the chief of staff.

CARD: That's right. And the process of educating the president to the magnificent responsibilities that he has requires more than one person. You wanted to have a number of people who present policies with lots of different views. You would like to discover the unintended consequences before they show up.

COOPER: Fascinating. Andy Card, really good to talk with you.

CARD: Thank you.

COOPER: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, the hearings, the clashes. Sec. Details just mentioned a moment ago, Trump cabinet picks clash with Democrats on the Hill, no surprise there, details.

Plus, my conversation with the Democratic senator who's leading the charge in favor of Rick Perry. We'll talk to Sen. Manchin when we return.


[20:40:31] COOPER: And welcome back. We are expecting to hear from President-elect Donald Trump in just a matter of moments as well as Vice President-elect Pence as well as Reince Priebus, the future -- tomorrow, starting the future chief of staff of Donald Trump in the Donald Trump administration. We're expecting them all to be speaking at this event at Union Station. We don't have an exact time on it. But as soon as it starts we will bring that to you live even if we're reporting on something else we'll break out of it. And we'll bring you their remarks live, perhaps lost in all the glitter and funder from DJ Ravidrums at the inaugural concert this evening.

There was also the very important business of questioning the people. Donald Trump wants to in his cabinet. His Treasury Secretary pick came in for some specially tough grilling today from Senate Democrats, today is Energy Secretary Rick Perry who don't remember -- had trouble even remembering the name of it on the 2012 campaign trail.


GOV. RICK PERRY, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I will tell you, it's three agencies of government when I get there that are gone -- commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? Let's see --


PERRY: Oh, five. OK. So, commerce, education, and the --


PERRY: EPA. There you go.

JOHN HARWOOD, DEBATE MODERATOR: Seriously? Is EPA the one you were talking about?

PERRY: No, sir. No, sir. We're talking about the agencies of government -- EPA needs to be rebuilt.

HARWOOD: But you can't name the third one?

PERRY: The third agency of government.


PERRY: I would do away with, education, the --

PAUL: Commerce.

PERRY: Commerce. And let's see. I can't. The third one I can't. Sorry. Oops.


COOPER: The matter is none of the other fellow candidates helped him out with that one. It was obviously Energy Department. That was then. What about now? CNN's Manu Raju tonight joins us now with more.

So, his previous statements were among the first things I imagine he was questioned about today.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: No question about it. Actually in the first opening statement of Maria Cantwell, the Democratic senator from Washington State, she said in case you haven't forgotten you once wanted to abolish this agency. And Rick Perry was clearly ready for that in his opening statement saying that he's actually changed his view. He says it's no longer his view. He now sees a vital role that the Energy Department plays.

Now, throughout this hearing he was questioned on a number of topics but he really would not get pinned down whether it was about his views about whether cutting funding on key energy programs, really wouldn't get into details about that or one of the questioning from Bernie Sanders about whether or not he'd use climate change as a crisis, sidestep that question as well. And even on whether or not to store nuclear waste at the Yucca Mountain waste dump in Nevada, very controversial issue in Nevada. Would not say his position on that. But, there were some lighthearted moments as well including one with Sen. Al Franken. Take a listen to how some of this exchanges went earlier today.


PERRY: My past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the Department of Energy do not reflect my current thinking. In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.

SEN. AL FRANKEN, Thank you so much for coming into my office. Did you enjoy meeting me?

PERRY: I hope you're as much fun on that dais as you were on your couch.


PERRY: May I rephrase that, sir.

FRANKEN: Please. Please. Please. Oh, my lord. Oh, my lord.

PERRY: Well, I think we found our "Saturday Night Live" sound bite.


RAJU: You're betting on whether or not Joe Manchin, excuse me, or Rick Perry would get confirmed to the post, you should bet on him getting confirmed. There are Democrats like Joe Manchin of West Virginia who are going to support Rick Perry but also some other ones who are open to it as well. He's one of the less contentious of Donald Trump's nominees, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah, we're going to talk to Sen. Manchin in just a moment. Democrats, what is the current strategy in their attempts to prevent some of these nominations from moving forward or at least slowing them down?

RAJU: Well, only two nominees are willing to give consent to tomorrow who will get confirmed on the day that Donald Trump gets sworn in, it's Gen. James Mattis to lead the Defense Department and Gen. John Kelly to head Homeland Security.

There are eight other nominees that they're trying to slow down the process because they have concerns about their records in the past. Anderson, they can delay the process, but they probably cannot deny them their jobs. The Republicans at the moment do have the votes it looks like for nominees except two, we're going to look at very closely, Rex Tillerson to be Secretary of State and Mick Mulvaney, the Budget Director. It's uncertain how some Republicans will come down at the end of the day. Those are the other controversial nominees going forward, Anderson. [20:45:27] COOPER: All right. Manu Raju, thanks for that. Again, we're waiting for remarks from President-elect Trump. We'll bring them to you live, breaking to the next tape interview if they happen in the middle of it.

We were speaking just a moment ago, West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin. I spoke to him right before we went on air. Take a look.


COOPER: Senator, we heard Gov. Perry today express for once calling for the abolishment of the Energy Department. I know you consider him a friend. You introduced him today. Should citizens, though, have concerns that this is a person who once called for the abolishment of the department that he clearly didn't really fully understand what that department did?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Well, I asked him about that when we had an interview before. You know, I've known Rick for quite some time. And I've said this, as former governors we have a certain bond. We worked together. But it wasn't Democrat and Republican, Anderson. We had all the same problems so it was very, very nonpartisan and very collegiate. So we do have a friendship and a relationship.

But I said, Rick, you're going to be asked this question because, you know, that was one of the big things on your presidential campaign, you wanted to deal away with. He said, Joe, I never thought it was working the way it should be. I didn't think it was doing what -- it should have been doing and setting a policy of all in energy policy. And I believe I can make a difference. Now, I said, well that's great, because you're going to be asked that question. I hope you can hit the ground running in going there, I'll help you in any way I can.

So, I think he's ready. I think he'll do a good job.

COOPER: And you're sure he now knows fully what the Energy Department is supposed to do.

MANCHIN: Oh, yeah.

COOPER: Because let me clearly, he didn't know, you know, oversaw nuclear power, nuclear weapons, that was something I guess he hadn't realized.

MANCHIN: Well, unless you're working with -- unless you're in federal government right now working with that day to day, I'm on the energy and natural resources, so basically you would think it's kind a deflector if you will, the department of energy and you're going to think, well, that's on (inaudible) the coal and natural gas, nuclear, wind, and all the different resources that we have.

But nuclear and the nuclear arsenal and a nuclear waste and everything that we do and the reactors and, that's the biggest part of it where most of the budget. And he understands it. Yes, he does. Back then, maybe he didn't as well as he should have. COOPER: And finally, kind of big picture. I mean, I know there's a number of House Democrats who are not going to be going.


COOPER: You have said that's unfortunate, that this is, you know, a celebration of the peaceful transfer of power, it's time to put aside whatever differences are on this day. Just long term, though, where do you see the Democratic Party, where should they stand? I know you've talked about -- you sort of see yourself as an emissary between Senate Democrats and the Trump administration that you're able to talk and you want to talk to all sides. Do you think Democrats -- because some Democrats are talking about just being a resistance party like what they said the Republicans did early on to President Obama? Is that wrong?

MANCHIN: Well, first of all, two wrongs don't make a right. And I think the Republican leadership had led the Republican Party up here in Congress to basically stone wall everything and stop and block everything. That didn't work well and the country didn't benefit by that. That's not what we were sent here to do.

Now just saying we're going to retaliate now and we're going to do the same as you did to us, that's not what I come here for. If that's the game they want to play, then they don't need me. If they want to get something done, I can try to help make that happen.

With all that being said, you know, you look at and say we're not going to show up. We got 60-50 or 60. I talk to a lot of the young people from West Virginia who came to their first inauguration, they're excited about this, and I said you're going to witness the most unbelievable transfer of power you've ever seen.

The rest of the world can only hope to be able to emanate what we do. But we're going to do it in a way that the superpower of the world is able to, through civilian transfer, do it in an orderly manner that makes all of us so proud. It shouldn't be whether you voted for Donald Trump or not, whether you like him or you don't.

But the bottom line is it's the process that we go through that makes us different. That's what we're honoring.

Now with my Democrat friends who are saying they don't want to be there or they're not going to work for him, you got to really look at the people that asked you to come here and work for them. So you came here to work for your constituents. Do that and try to make it positive. Look for the opportunities, don't look for the objections we have and try to make more problems. Trust me, we have enough challenges right now. We don't need to make more.

COOPER: Sen. Manchin, I know a lot of great people from West Virginia, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

MANCHIN: Thank you, Anderson. Appreciate being with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Just ahead, President-elect Trump live momentarily. We're told also this Melania Trump, her life is obviously about to change enormously as well. Today she made some brief remarks of her own at her husband's prompting. We'll look at what kind of first lady she has signals, she might be. Some insight in a moment.


[20:53:56] COOPER: And welcome back. We're waiting for President- elect Trump to talk any minute. We'll, of course, bring that to you live. We're also -- there we have the Vice President-elect Pence, also Reince Priebus is going to be speaking tonight, but we're waiting for Donald Trump. This is taking place at Union Station. Let's listen in for just a moment.

GOV. MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: And replace ObamaCare. Thanks to you. We'll finally have a president who will stand without apology with the men and women who serve in law enforcement at every level across this nation to ensure and to support, we need your support (ph).

Thanks to you. Thanks to you, we finally have a president who will make appointments to the Supreme Court of the United States of America of men and women who will uphold the God given liberties and stride in our constitution and (inaudible). Thanks to you.

So we came here to say thanks, celebrate with all of you and with people that may well be looking on from across the country, thank you for what you've done.

[20:55:17] And just as a fellow American, I thank you for giving us a new president. A new president who I can say from having come to know him over the course of this campaign, having seen him when the cameras are off, a new president who has the strength and the vision and the determination and the leadership qualities to make America great again. Thanks to you.

So let me say on this eve of history, for the last time as president- elect, it is my high honor and distinct privilege to introduce to you the next president of the United States of America, Donald Trump and our new first lady, Melania Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I have to say this is one of the greatest decisions I've made --


TRUMP: -- Mike Pence.


TRUMP: Sit down and just enjoy the day. Thank you. Thank you.


TRUMP: -- couple of days after the election. And it showed the red counties blue counties and the entire country practically other than a couple little points was red. That was some big victory. That was some victory.

And records were set that haven't been beaten since Ronald Reagan from the Republican side and we've gone back in Iowa, we had areas that haven't been won since 1952, and we had areas saw that folks from Iowa, you know where I'm talking about. They say you can't possibly win this area, and we won the area.

And we have locations and we have destinations and I said before and I was telling some people the next time four years from now, the next time we're going to win the old fashioned way. We're going to win because we did so well because it was so overwhelming the thing that we did, because it was so beautiful how great our cabinet, all of whom are here tonight, how great our cabinet has performed.

We have a cabinet, I believe, the likes of which has never been appointed. There's never been a cabinet like this. I will say the other side is going absolutely crazy.

They're going crazy. But we have a group of people that I just felt we had to go. Today as you know we appointed a Secretary of Agriculture, happens to be a farmer. He happens to be -- there he is. Look at that man. Sonny Perdue. He came into my office two months ago. Since then I saw 10 people that everybody like politically correct and I kept thinking back to Sonny Perdue a great ...