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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
President Donald Trump's First Full Day In Office Focused On The Size Of The Crowd At His Inauguration; Several Marches Are Happening Throughout The Globe; President Trump Visited CIA On His First Day In Office. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 21, 2017 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:02:05] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And thanks for joining us for the second hour of 360 tonight, special Saturday night edition.
President Trump is spending considerable amount of energy on his first full day of his presidency focusing on the size of the crowd at his inauguration yesterday. We will have more on that this hour.
But we begin with different crowds, the ones protesting Mr. Trump and his policies. They were bigger than the organizers expected. This is the women's march in Washington. That's what it was called today. Great massive crowd of women, men and kids of all ages, races and beliefs stood together. It is a scene that played out in cities around the country, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, many cities in- between.
In Denver, Memphis, Nashville, and hundreds and hundreds of cities, large and small, masses of people gathered, rallied and marched for, they said, for women against racism and homophobia for unity. It wasn't just in the United States.
Nina dos Santos tonight reports.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will not be silent.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across London, they flooded the streets, young and old, women and men.
From Berlin to Barcelona, Sydney to Mexico City protesting the politics of America's new president and urging him not to turn harsh rhetoric into reality.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a sad day yesterday. I was at Barack Obama's inauguration eight years ago. And yesterday was just a completely different feel. And I don't want that for my daughters. I want a much brighter, more loving future for them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are afraid of the bigoted rhetoric that is happening in America transferring to Australia and becoming normalize and legitimize and we don't want that to happen. DOS SANTOS: Between the signs and speeches, slogans of solidarity.
CROWD: I am a feminine.
DOS SANTOS: And a sea of pink knitted hats. In Britain even the pets has a message, and women's rights were top of the agenda.
CATHERINE MAYER, FOUNDER, WOMEN'S EQUALITY PARTY: People think of if as there is some game, that if you take more equality, it diminishes somebody else's. A lot of men and a lot of women understand that the opposite is true. That gender equality is better for everyone.
GRAYSON PERRY, ARTIST: I'm here to stand up for equality and against bigotry and hatred. I'm here to show that we can angry but also funny.
DOS SANTOS: This may have been a women's march, but it was also about so much more. Here in London, people took to the streets despite freezing temperature and stayed on them for hours to make their views heard. Their message to the new U.S. president, we may not have been your electorates, but your decisions will affect the whole world.
KATE ALLEN, DIRECTOR, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL UK: I'm here (INAUDIBLE), amongst all of these thousands of other people because we are concerned the rights that are being fought for and rights that we have been used to are under attack now. So it is hearing President Trump talk about immigrants, Muslims, the way he talks about women, his concerns and we are worried about that.
[21:05:00] DOS SANTOS: Wise that is being echoed the world over as Donald Trump takes his place in the White House.
Nina Dos Santos, CNN, London.
COOPER: Now, Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards spoke at the women's march in Washington today. She said it was an honor to be there on behalf of the one in five women in America who have been to Planned Parenthood for health care. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECILE RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: I wish every one of them could see you. You are a beautiful sight. For some folks in Congress, a terrifying one. We are here today to thank generations of organizers and troublemakers and hell raisers who formed secret sisterhoods, who opened Planned Parenthood, health centers in their communities and demanded the right to control their own bodies. And today we are here to deliver a message. We are not going to take this lying down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Cecile Richards joins me now.
First of all, was this what you expected today in terms of crowds, in terms of just overall atmosphere?
RICHARDS: It was overwhelming, Anderson. I think it was more than anyone expected. And not only in Washington, D.C., but as we are seeing around the world and of course around the country. Really, literally millions of people marching for women's rights. And it was incredible spirit, too. I thought that was the thing that really truck me, how positive it was.
COOPER: In terms of what impact it has, obviously huge crowds as you said, six months from now, does it -- how do you translate this into an actual turning point, if that's what it's supposed to be.
RICHARDS: Well, I think what folks definitely the spirit today was this is not the end. This is actually the beginning. And I think the folks were very clear that this is about sending a message to this administration and to U.S. Congress that women have made enormous gains in the country and they are not going to go back. And again, I think the incredible things was it was generations. It was women who marched in the '60s and young people who had never marched before. And it was so wide-spread. People from every walk of life. It was amazing. And folks are committed to standing up.
COOPER: In order to make change at the ballot box, there are women you need to reach who are not - I mean, who did not vote for Hillary Clinton, who voted for Donald Trump in a number of states. How do you go about doing that?
RICHARDS: Well, it's interesting. And first, we are seeing it at Planned Parenthood. One in five women as said been to Planned Parenthood. A lot of women who voted for Donald Trump are Planned Parenthood patients. And in fact, they are very deeply concerned about any agenda that would take away their right to go to the health care provider of their choice. They say they voted for him to shake up things in Washington, not to take away their right to health care.
COOPER: The defunding, though, of Planned Parenthood is obviously high, very high on Republican agenda. Are you prepared for that?
RICHARDS: We are absolutely - but, we are again, I think today is an opportunity for members of Congress, including Paul Ryan. That, you know, speaker Ryan who said he wanted to defund Planned Parenthood. Today, I think, was a time for folks to listen to women and men who care about them saying don't take away our right to health care. That's why you're seeing not only hundreds of thousands of people protesting today but also protesting about the repeal of the affordable health care act, which will take away the rights of millions of women to birth control in this country.
COOPER: But if - I mean, how do you adjust for defunding? If Planned Parenthood has been defunded, what is the impact?
RICHARDS: Well, Planned Parenthood has been around for 100 years and we will be around for 100 more. I think the important thing is that now, Anderson, is we are not a line item in the federal budget. So defunding is sort of the miss no more (ph). What it really means with saying to women on Medicaid, and many women who have the least access to care, you can no longer go to Planned Parenthood for birth control, for family planning, for cancer screening.
It is really important to note, it has nothing to do for abortion because federal funds don't go to abortion. It has to do with helping women get access to preventive care. And I would note that even in Paul Ryan's own district, we have three health centers that do nothing but provide family planning and breast cancer screens and cancer screenings that keep women healthy and safe. And I hope that Paul Ryan is paying attention to the needs of women in his district.
COOPER: It is interesting because when you look at the tea party, you know, what began as protests did make change at the ballot box two years later. I guess I'm questioning how you go about doing that. I mean, beyond just - it is one thing to protest to get out massive numbers, but a lot of the people that came out probably voted for Hillary Clinton, and that wasn't enough. So what really will change?
RICHARDS: Well, I think this is an absolutely -- this is the biggest women's march I think that any of us have seen in our lifetime. I think this shows that people are willing to not just sit back and see what happens in this administration but take an active part in influences Congress and influencing the administration to protect women's health and rights. And I believe you are going to see -- we are already seeing hundreds of thousands of people sign up for Planned Parenthood, sign up to work with organizations that they believe will stand and fight against any efforts to repeal women's rights.
COOPER: Cecile Richards, appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much.
RICHARDS: Yes. Good to see you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Coming up next, the Trump administration wants you to believe that the crowd in the photo on the right is bigger than the one on the left. In fact, as you will see pushing that notion kind of took over the agenda of the White House today even during a fence mending trip to the CIA. We will talk about the fallout from that when 360 continues.
[21:13:00] COOPER: As marchers filled the streets around the country, the world, especially in Washington, President Trump got down to business. It was not as you will see throughout the hour, not business as usual, though. Certainly not seen as Jim Acosta joins us now from the White House with more.
So talk about this press briefing. It was an unscheduled briefing today. Explain what the new White House press secretary focused on.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Certainly not business as usual. That's correct, Anderson. And it was interesting because Sean Spicer came into the room, delivered a statement and left. And that is very unusual for a White House press secretary. A president could come into the briefing room and give a statement and leave. But typically, the press secretary takes questions. That didn't happen today. But just to back up a little bit, what Sean Spicer did in the briefing
room was basically echo what his boss, the president said over at the CIA. That he is outraged over this coverage of the (INAUDIBLE) at the inauguration yesterday. Here's what Sean Spicer said to reporters earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe. Even "The New York Times" printed a photograph showing that a misrepresentation of the crowd in the original tweet in their paper which showed the full extent of the support that and crowd in even existed.
These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration are shameful and wrong. The president is committed to unifying our country, and that was the focus of his inaugural address. This kind of dishonesty in the media that challenging that bring about our nation together is making it more difficult.
There has been a lot of talk in the media about the responsibility to hold Donald Trump accountable. And I'm here to tell you that it goes two ways. We are going to hold the press accountable as well. The American people deserve better and as long as he serves as the messenger for this incredible movement, he will take his message directly to the American people where his focus will always be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And what's incredible about that statement, Anderson, is that while Sean Spicer is accusing all of us of being -- spreading falsehoods and misrepresenting what occurred yesterday, he laid out a series of facts that just didn't add up.
[21:15:13] COOPER: They were not true. I mean, he talked about the crowds. He also mentioned the floor covering. I mean, again, I just got to say it is surreal that we are discussing this on day one of the Trump administration. But we are discussing it because it is what Donald Trump has focused on today, first at the CIA and then at this press conference. So again, they are presenting stuff which is not true, so now we just have to counter it. They talked about floor coverings never being used before out on the mall that were white and therefore made it look like there were fewer people. That is not the case. Those floor coverings have been used to protect the grass in the past.
ACOSTA: Not true. And it really didn't take much more than a Google search, Anderson, to fair this out. Take a look at some of these pictures that we unearthed from four years ago at President Obama's second inaugural. You see crews laying out these white ground coverings on the national mall to protect the grass. So when Sean Spicer says that these have never been used before, you know, a Google search would tell you that is not the case.
He also talked about metro ridership numbers, and we could put that graphic up on screen. He was trying to say that the metro ridership numbers were better for Trump than it was at the second Obama inaugural. That is just not the case. There you have metro ridership from, you know, basically 4:00 a.m. to midnight, 570,000 yesterday versus 782,000 four years ago and 1.1 million back in 2009.
Anderson, even went as far as to say well, magnetometers were used around the national mall and that slowed people from entering the mall and seeing this inauguration. We called the U.S. secret service. The U.S. secret service is usually not in the business of contradicting the president of the United States or the White House. They told us no magnetometers were used around the mall during this inauguration. So again another fact that was -- or another line from Sean Spicer that was easily fact checked, Anderson.
COOPER: Right. And, again, incredible that we are discussing magnetometers around the mall from yesterday of floor coverings, but again, this is what the president of the United States apparently is very concerned about today.
Jim Acosta, thanks.
ACOSTA: This is what he chose to talk about.
COOPER: Yes. That's what they chose to talk about and tell mistruth to the American people, not just the reporters who cares about that but to the American people.
John King is here. Kirsten Powers, Gloria Borger, Dana Bash, David Axelrod, Jeffrey Lord, Bakari Sellers and (INAUDIBLE).
David, you made the point earlier about, you know, lying to reporters, not telling the accurate numbers to reporters. More importantly, it is not telling to the American people.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. When the press secretary stands at that podium, he is speaking to the country, not just to the reporters. So, Jeff, when you say, well, people are -- they don't trust reporters anyway, so it doesn't matter --
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I didn't say.
AXELROD: No. You sort of did.
LORD: I said they don't trust him and that's a fact.
AXELROD: No. But then you implied -- so, you know what the calculation of the president is that because they don't trust reporters. That he can say what he wants to say. But there is a certain obligation on the part of the press secretary and the administration when they stand in front of a podium and they are talking not just to reporters but the American people to tell the truth.
COOPER: Donald Trump has said I will never lie to you. I mean, he said this during the campaign. He made a big deal about saying this that he will never lie. LORD: Guy, guys, I mean --
COOPER: Has Donald Trump lied?
COOPER: Jeffrey, (INAUDIBLE)
LORD: You mean, is Sean Spicer?
COOPER: If you believe Donald Trump has now lied.
COOPER: You don't think he has ever lied?
LORD: I just was reading the statement that he said here and around the globe.
COOPER: Again --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the magnetometers?
COOPER: What about magnetometers?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The fact that people believe somehow that this mean - and I have given Donald Trump this leeway to say it is not fair to compare yesterday.
COOPER: And by the way, we were not even comparing.
SELLERS: Even though Sean Spicer is making a future reference. I don't think it's fair to compare yesterday to what happened with Barack Obama.
COOPER: There were thousands of people excited and happy from all around the country who came here and had an amazing and incredible day.
SELLERS: That is what I'm telling you, Anderson.
COOPER: I know.
LORD: What I'm trying -- and it was already in the press a week or two ago, that some anonymous Trump person had said that we view the people in the west wing press room as much as activist Democrats and we want them out of the building or what have you. I'm simply trying to communicate to you that's the view out there in America with a lot of people. And the coverage given to this, I mean, how many hours upon hours upon hours, David, were spent saying the president of the United States, President Obama said if you want your doc you can keep it. JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a lie.
KING: What if we found out people couldn't keep their doctor quite a bit actually.
Can I have this point for a minute because it is the first full day and everybody is tired. And, so, let's hope this is a first full day of everybody is tired and the president we know from the campaign is particularly sensitive to crowd size. I'm sure he saw the pictures of the protest today and maybe that got under his skin because he is tired.
But I'd rather address the bigger point. What Sean Spicer said today is simply not true. What the president said the most hallow ground at the CIA that the media made up his fight with intelligence services is simply not true.
[21:20:27] LORD: Don, let me ask you.
KING: Wait. Let me finish. And to every Trump supporter out there, God bless you. You voted for him. He is your president. You have one of this in your pocket. It is a super computer. Don't believe a word I just said. Do it yourself. But please do it because he will not be able to pass his infrastructure plan. Yes, his supporters love this. His supporters love when they beat us up. You have a 52/48 majority in the Senate. You have a smaller majority in the Senate. He is not going to be able to do what he wants to do if he continues to get in these fights about --.
COOPER: Does it make sense for him to pick these fights?
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think he thinks he does using the rational that Jeffrey is using, which is that the media has a low Republican rating and they have always got a lot of approval from attacking the media. But this is moving into another area I think where he is trying to delegitimize the media which is very dangerous. And, you know, I think when you think of this statement, the magnetometers, it is worth really focusing on because it is so easily disproven. And that Sean Spicer would go out there and say that that he weren't able to get in. Well, that would have shown up on the pictures. Hundreds of thousands of people standing trying to get in? We would have seen that. How could Sean Spicer go out and say something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
POWERS: But it's -- it is his job to say that.
LORD: Can I ask for clarification?
POWERS: You can't do this.
LORD: You're saying he couldn't get into the ceremony because of it?
LORD: Let me just tell you a personal experience. I tried to get into the parade and couldn't get in.
POWERS: But that's not the same.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not the mall. That's not the mall, though.
POWERS: No, Jeffrey. They said hundreds of thousands of people could not get into the mall. That would show up in the pictures, right?
LORD: But also, Anderson --
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Could we stop talking about the media and the president for a second and talk about the president's thin skin here and what this tells you about how he's going to react every day to --
COOPER: But the fact he woke up today and turned on television of coverage of what happened yesterday, that's sort of amazing to me.
BORGER: Right. To what a foreign leader says about him? To what somebody on this TV show will say about him? To what somebody tweets about him? I have to believe that, let's take ourselves out of this.
COOPER: Please, yes.
BORGER: Remove the media from this. But just take a look at this clinically about a thin-skinned president who, on day one, going to the CIA, spent most of his speech talking about himself.
LORD: Did he get applause from these folks?
BORGER: In front of the hallowed wall. I wasn't there.
COOPER: Do you believe -- he said at the CIA no one feels as strongly about the CIA as Donald Trump. Speaking about himself in the third person which I (INAUDIBLE). But I don't know what that mean. I mean, do you really believe that no one feels as strongly about the CIA as Donald Trump.
LORD: Well, what he is trying to communicate he has great respect for them. But he is also their boss.
COOPER: But he lied about what he has said in the past. What he said was not true about what he has said in the past. He has -- well, he claims that it is the media trying to pretend as if he has been antagonistic.
SELLERS: Anderson, today, today, I love this whole -- I guess I'm a part of the media now or whatever. I love this whole media bashing thing because it is as if we created this today. We did not. The press secretary of the United States of America chose to speak about this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was told to speak about it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fairness, I think that's right.
SELLERS: That's very true. That is to be accurate. He was told to speak about this from the briefing room, the words that embodied and represented the president of the United States. This is not something that Anderson Cooper and the left-wing media came up with and said we're going to discuss today. This is not how that was created.
COOPER: I can guarantee you, there was no plan to reporting on the size or the abut magnetometers on the mall.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And to that point, Anderson, I think that is an excellent, excellent point. And that we should taking aside all the back and forth and the very important reality that Sean Spicer was asked to, told to, whatever happened go to the White House briefing room and say things that were not true.
Put all that aside. Donald Trump has historically be a marketers and frankly, has been very, very good at changing the subject to his benefit. I actually don't necessarily think that that was the case. Even though if you want to give him the benefit of doubt, maybe he was trying to do to change the subject away from the marchers here.
This was a situation where this is just a thing for him. It gets under his skin. It's about crowd size, it is about ratings, it is about everything. But it is unfortunate because what we talked about from 8:30 in the morning until I was on until, you know, 11:30 at night was the majesty of the day and about the fact that he did something that was and is awesome. He has never been in elected office. He has never been in the military. He is the president of the United States. Following the pomp and circumstance, the substance of what he said, the balls, what his wife and everybody is wearing, all that stuff. And then today the story should have been he went to the CIA to make amends with them and not this.
[21:25:31] COOPER: We have to take a break. We are going to have more with our panel including President Trump's visit as I just mentioned to the CIA and the fallout from what he said in front of a memorial to the 117 agency employees who have died in the line of duty. We will be right back.
[21:29:10] COOPER: President Trump spent part of his first full day in office in Langley, Virginia at CIA headquarters. He spoke on what is hallowed ground to members of the intelligence community standing in front of a wall bearing a star for each employee killed in the line of duty, 117 in all. He made a commitment to the agency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am so behind you. And I know maybe sometimes you haven't gotten the backing that you have wanted and you are going to get so much backing. Maybe you are going to say please don't give us so much backing. Mr. President, please, we don't need that much backing. But you are going to have that. And I think everybody in this room knows it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That wasn't all he said, of course. The president spoke for exactly 15 minutes and 23 seconds in which only two minutes and 14 seconds were devoted to the intelligence community or intelligence officers memorialized behind him. He spent about another two and a half minutes on his nominee to run the CIA, Mike Pompeo. The rest went a lot like this, boasting about the inaugural crowds and complaining about the media coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:14] TRUMP: It looked honestly looked like a million and a half people. Whatever it was, it was. But it went all the way back to the Washington monument. And I turn on the thing and by mistake I get this network. And it showed an empty field. And it said we drew 250,000 people. Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie. We had 250,000 people literally around, you know, in the little bowl that we constructed. That was 250,000 people. The rest of the, you know, twenty block area all the way back to the Washington monument was packed. So we caught them. And we caught and a beauty. And I think they are going to pay a big price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As you saw a moment ago, his press secretary came out late today and tore into the press core what he says what his reporting. By the way, CNN doesn't give crowd estimates.
Now, leaving aside how many people heard him speak yesterday. We want to focus on what he had to say specifically to friends and advisories around the world.
With more on what is emerging as the Trump doctrine, here is chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto.
TRUMP: From this day forward, it's going to be only America first, America first.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Minutes after taking the oath, President Trump defined a foreign policy focused very much at home.
TRUMP: Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families.
SCIUTTO: Taking particular aim at trading partners China and Mexico.
TRUMP: We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries, making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs.
SCIUTTO: Now reaction from allies and adversaries across the world. Allied Germany pushing back against a new American isolationism.
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): I believe firmly that it is best for all of us if we work together based on rules, common values and joint action.
SCIUTTO: Mexico's president gave a diplomatic welcome to Mr. Trump, tweeting quote "I congratulate President Donald Trump for his inauguration. We will work to strengthen our relationship with shared responsibility."
While former Mexican president Vicente Fox announced spoke in critic (ph), now Trump's pledge to make Mexico pay for a border wall delivered blistering criticism tweeting speaking of allegiance, Trump, speaking of greatness, speaking of success, America was already great and successful. Then you happened.
Chinese state newspapers predicted a trade war with its largest trading partner. One state newspaper writing quote "it is also highly probably that his U.S. might clash with China over trade.
Even Russia, which has praised Russia Trump as he has done in return, making clear that Moscow has its own interests. Russian president Vladimir Putin spokes to them and saying in an interview quote "the acting administration will have to be introduced to all the nuances of our bilateral times."
COOPER: Jim Sciutto joins us now along with Jeffrey Lord, also retired army lieutenant general Mark Hertling and former CIA officer Bob Baer.
Jim, I know you have been hearing from folks about the president's comments at the CIA. Does this mean -- in more important terms that his relationship with the intelligence community, which he now says is fine, are they all of a sudden now on the same page.
SCIUTTO: Well, listen. There are places, no question, where intelligence community, military, national security communities did not like the Obama administration or disagreed. You know, there was frustration with decision-making, concentration of power in the NSC. I think in a thousand boxes to carry out an operation. That kind of thing.
So Donald Trump -- and you heard some to sort of oblique references to him saying I am going to give you backing, you know. You didn't get it from the past administration. So he has a message there that he kind of wedged in, but crowded out perhaps by the other stuff.
But at the same time, you have this running public dispute over its assessment that Russia hacked the election, right, and his tweets and many public comments. Despite what he said today, he has repeatedly accused the intelligence community of politicizing intelligence of just being flat-out wrong and that's difficult for them to take. He certainly didn't solve that problem. COOPER: And the CIA director just stepped down, John Brennan who has
served Republicans and Democrats, we should point out, over a very long career. He sent out a very strong criticism of the president today.
SCIUTTO: He did. It was a really blistering statement. I think he could put it up on the screen. So we have it word for word here. But the CIA director saying - former CIA director I should say, by the way. A bout 24 hours is deeply saddened and angered at Donald Trump's despicable, very strong words display of self-grandicement (ph) in front of the CIA's memorial wall of agency heroes. Brennan says that Trump should be ashamed of himself.
Those are really strong words. And as you mentioned, he served under George W. Bush as director of the national counterterrorism center. He served 25 years in the agency under presidents of both parties. You know, Trump is sort of portraying him as Obama's guy and he was Obama's guy as the head of the CIA but part of that, he George Bush's guy.
[21:35:27] COOPER: Bob Baer, former CIA officer, let me ask you. What did you make of what you heard from the president in front of that wall? Because there were folks, clearly, you know, it was a crowd. There were number of -- a couple I think 300 CIA personnel who could come if they want. It was on a Saturday so they could choose to come. There was some applause. What did you make of what you heard?
BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, that's not the forum to do it. A 117 dead CIA officers to get into politics makes the CIA nervous. They look at Trump as unpredictable. What he said today, you know, wasn't completely reassuring. We have to remember, Anderson, that the CIA currently is investigating the president for Russian links and his advisers and his connections with the Ukraine and on and on. And it is unclear how that's going to go. And the new CIA director still hasn't made up his mind whether he is going to ask the CIA to go back to using torture and water boarding. So it is all very much up in the air. Demoralize, I'm not sure I call the CIA that, but very wary of the coming days.
COOPER: General Hertling, you served in Iraq over your long storied career. You make the point that there are a lot of moving parts in the world right now, military, intelligence and otherwise around the globe that could come into play sooner rather than later. Is that where the president's focus should be on right now, rather than crowd size and, you know, attacks in the media and stuff like that.
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I think both Jim and Bob would join me, Anderson, in saying that probably sometime within the next 30 to 60 days we are going to have some type of crisis. And if we don't have a crisis, we are just going to have business as usual in some pretty interesting places.
You know, the president keep talking about ISIS, and certainly that's true. But we also have an ongoing war in Afghanistan. We got the North Korea threatening some things. We have some continued action in Ukraine. We have Russia expansionism across Europe and we have just bombed several bases in Libya of ISIS and Al-Qaeda. So all those things are known right now. Those are the things we know about that could certainly confuse.
The unknowns, the things that normally happen or the things we don't predict, anything from the potential of South China Sea to the Philippines to NATO allies, to what is going in Jerusalem to the Gaza Strip. I mean, we could sit here and name them for about 15 minutes. And all of those things will come upon Mr. Trump as president as a surprise.
Leadership matters. Words are important. The kinds offer things he is saying today are being heard all over the world and allies are reacting. And alliances are fraught with challenges. I think it was Winston Churchill that says the only worse thing in being in an alliance is not being in one. And this is not a business deal. These are not binary operations. It is very complex and a lot of things are going on the world and the world looks to America to be leaders. And that's what we have to see our president as, a leader, and in order to do that, we have to trust him. Some of the things that have been going on in the last couple days have generated a lack of trust or an erosion in that trust.
COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, what about that?
LORD: Well, look, I think his appearance here today was designed to say to the intelligence community, and he said it, literately. I love you. I want to give you as much backing as I have. I want to give you so much backing that you say stop backing me. I have heard him do these kinds of things in other settings with other people. And what he's doing is trying to communicate who he is and his style to people he sees as his employees, which is what they were, to relate to them on a personal basis. And I think I understand the point about the wall and all this and we're standing behind it.
I mean, clearly, I don't think that was his intention. I mean, I think what he's trying to do is say, OK, I'm here. I'm in charge. Let's get to know each other. I want to tell you some stories and I want you to know a little bit about me. They did. They laughed. They applauded.
COOPER: But in terms of just, you know, folks spending wasting any time today talking about crowd size, as opposed to the important business that general Hertling is talking about, the myriad of things in crisis around the world.
LORD: Yes. I mean --
HERTLING: You know, Anderson, I suggest too that one of the things that we are talking about, and this is all anecdotal. I have several friends in the CIA. I have several friends in stations around the world. And I received several messages today, as Jim did as well. They were appalled by that. I have been in the CIA headquarters about six or seven times during my military career. And every time I go in I stopped at the wall because one of our CIA operatives when I was in Iraq in 2004 was killed during that time and his star is on the wall. We stop and say a prayer. It is at the entrance to the CIA as you well know because everybody
passes by and remembers the solemnness of that part of the headquarters. If Mr. Trump did not see that as a critically important place not to do the kinds of things he did today, then he is very much lacking in situational awareness and a leader needs to have that.
[21:40:33] LORD: Well, I mean, I'd ask the question. If all of this is to be believed, I'm not doubting anyone here, but there were 300 CIA employees sitting there in front of that wall and they were laughing. Is that appropriate?
SCIUTTO: Well, they didn't laugh certainly at the wall.
LORD: Well, why laugh at all.
SCIUTTO: There were a couple lines that drew applause. We had a - CNN had poll reporter inside there and he says that some were applauding and some were not.
COOPER: By the way, these are people who chose to come in on a Saturday.
LORD: I understand. But what you are saying if - what I'm asking is if it was inappropriate to say these things in front of 300 --.
COOPER: According to the poll report, the senior leadership sat stone faced and really just applauded at the end.
LORD: All I'm going by is what we have just heard on that.
SCIUTTO: That is right. I mean, our reporter was there and in fact is. And you heard it on the tape and Jeffrey is correct. They did some laughed for some lines, right. Others did not, right? And I suppose -- and Mark Hertling, he has got a lot of friends. I have got some friends in the community of just people that I deal with who had and you heard the former CIA director who appalled by --.
Listen. There are difference of opinion. You make the point that some chose to be there. But let's be clear. No one was applauding him not revering the wall, right? I mean there was some rally like applause lines there.
LORD: I'm just saying that if that's the case, then you need to apply the same standards, and the CIA employees shouldn't be laughing in front of the wall and they were.
COOPER: All right. Appreciate everybody's perspective.
BAER: What is something more important, --
COOPER: I'm sorry, Bob. Go ahead.
BAER: Yes. Well, I mean, he said we should have taken Iraq oil in the same speech and maybe we will. I mean, is he going to re-invade Iraq? I mean, that's something a lot of people missed. Words are important.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, that's - yes. He did talk about it. Maybe we will have another chance to take Iraq oil.
Coming up next, we will return to issue that President Trump then his press secretary lashed into crowd size.
I also want to talk about yesterday with the Tom Barrack, who was responsible for the inauguration celebrations. I talked to Tom last night. And great conversation.
We will be back in just a moment.
[21:46:18] COOPER: We have been talking tonight about the one issue that kind of took over the day, mainly because Donald Trump and his press secretary Sean Spicer made it their central talking point mainly the size of the crowds yesterday in the mall.
Joining us now Tom Barrack, is the chairman of the presidential inaugural committee.
It is great to see you again. I had a great conversation last night in one of the balls. First of all, you must be exhausted. Looking back, you are happy with how everything went?
TOM BARRACK JR., CHAIRMAN, PRESIDENTIAL INAUGURAL COMMITTEE: Yes. And I loved it. I'm especially happy that everything went smoothly and for six days and 22 events, nobody got hurt, expectations were exceed and it was a great tribute to the American democracy. I was proud of everything.
COOPER: You were in-charged in the inaugural. You are not in-charge of day one, but I'm going to ask you about I am going to ask you about what happened here on day one today. Donald Trump focusing and Sean Spicer, you heard the press conference on the crowd size. Is this what you expected day one to be like?
BARRACK: The good news, I had no expectations of day one, OK? Look, the issue -- and it probably is my fault. It started with me because the president was elated with the inauguration. And I think truly --
COOPER: Last night he was praising media coverage about it at one of the balls. Clearly, today he woke up, saw something on the news and was less than elated about what he believed was reported about crowd size.
BARRACK: Yes. I think really the issue for him was he was elated about the media coverage. He was elated about the event, about the partisan passage about this unbelievable governance. It only happens that way. And you can imagine standing up there in that platform and looking, you don't know whether you can looking at 300,000, 400,000 or a million. But you are looking at 50 annoying TV viewers and envision to it. And I think the power of that position and the humility of that responsibility took over.
But what happened is not counting. It was from his perception and when we could spend hours going through the details of what it looks like. But from the platform when you're looking out.
BARRACK: You're looking all the way to Lincoln.
BARRACK: And I was sitting, you know, seven rows behind him. And I was looking and I said, wow.
COOPER: It is a different vantage point because I have seen that. The vantage point from there, it looks packed. The vantage point from the rear back, because of the perspective. It is not packed. And that is not a criticism. It is just the reality. There's different -- photos the White House showed today are from the vantage point he saw and it is wall to wall. When you look at it from another way, you know, it's not that way.
BARRACK: Exactly. So the issue with him probably -- it was on my match. It was on my fault because as we were going through this, there were mags. So the reporting that there were no mags or the secret service saying there were no mags, what they were saying is the mags are on the parade route. So to go from north to south, you had to cross the mags to get into the mall. Or if you were already going south to north, you had to cross the mags. For your viewers mags are --
BARRACK: Magnetometers that process -- if it's a TSA magnetometers, maybe its 250 people per hour. If it's secret service, it's about 400. We had 99 of them. So along the boundary of the parade, you had 100 mags basically. So if you had 400 people, that's 40,000 people per hour that could it process. So to come from the parade across -- and I was communicating with my team. We were backed up. We had started an hour and a half late. And police had difficult time getting in place. We started an hour late. And the crowds were backing up from the parade was over.
On the other side from north side, it was baggage search. It wasn't mags. And of course, the protesters were larger, so blockades were about five times more. So everybody was kind of right. And there was people who were trying to get into the area but the mall filled up later. So the president's speech supposed to be at 11:27, it didn't go to 12:02.
So the difficulty of course is nobody is trying to do anything inappropriate but when you are taking photos - it started with twitter. And really, the things set the president off wasn't the counting. Because for sure I take responsibility. I'm sure that there were a million and a half to a million and seven people in the viewing vicinity. When you look at what happened, this is the first year in President
Obama's regime in both of his inaugurations, there was no fencing around the mall. Now the mall was fenced in designated area.
[21:51:02] COOPER: We got to take a quick break.
But when we come back, I want to ask you kind of about the lager -- it doesn't - this is not something we plant a report on today nor did we even mentioned talk about crowd size yesterday. But since the president brought it up, that is why we are discussing it.
It goes to larger issue about the president, what he focuses on, how affected he can be by media coverage and things. I want to ask about that because you know him very well.
We are going to take a quick break. We will have more with Tom in just a minute.
[21:54:45] COOPER: We are talking tonight with Tom Barrack, chairman of the presidential inaugural committee.
Donald Trump also went to the CIA today, you know, praised the intelligence communities, certainly, seemed to be try to mend fences. He also then made comments which, you know, CIA director Brennan has come out very critical of - for doing it in front of the wall like that.
The larger issue, I guess for me, is not the crowd size in all that which frankly to me doesn't matter at all. People had amazing experience, it was an extraordinary day, it was a historic day and it seems to be very successful day yesterday. It's the judgment, and whether or not the president, you know, is this the best use of the president's time particularly on day one? What do you think about that?
[21:55:28] BARRACK: Look, I think the issue that really caught him was not the count, and it wasn't self-gratification for himself. The way he viewed it is the tweet which started with a "New York Times" reporter tweeting those pictures, and again pictures - I'm not inspector Cloousso (ph) but when you inspect the pictures and the time and cadence and what time the speech started --
COOPER: That's the picture.
BARRACK: Yes. So, very difficult to verify all the facts. We had apples to apples.
COOPER: Right. It is apples and oranges. It's not something --
BARRACK: That's not what bothered him. What bothered him was that tweet was then retweeted by the national park service.
COOPER: Right. Which they apologized for or at least took down their twitter account and then --. BARRACK: Yes. It's just against practice for the agency, it how to
do it. And so, he viewed it and said look I'm held accountable every day on my tweets and I'm criticized by the media for the relevancy or accuracy of what is available. I would just like parity. If the media is going to tweet about me, I will hold them equally accountable and that point of view that I saw seems to be not factual. And so, I take responsibility for the numbers which is what I told the president. I said look. The statistical analysis of what went on there is inauguration, the committee's responsibility. Here is the estimates of where we can (INAUDIBLE). He said there was a problem. It is my problem. It's not the president's problem. And here are all the facts that went into it including, by the way, the white turf cover which really was the only time in an inauguration the white turf covered.
COOPER: But we have seen pictures during the last Obama inauguration of them unveiling white things to cover the grass.
BARRACK: I don't think picture was the inauguration. The white turf covering has been used before in the mall but not inauguration.
COOPER: And this picture, you are saying, is not accurate because it is different times?
BARRACK: No. I'm saying at time that he was taking issue with the tweet, saying what the accuracy of this, and the presentation, point of view of this picture seemed to be for the purpose of saying that this president is less worthy or less celebrated.
COOPER: So you don't take issue with the fact of this picture, just the intent or as the -- president how he perceived intent of this?
BARRACK: Yes. I mean, we don't have enough information at this point to take issue with it.
BARRACK: Because nobody knows where that --.
COOPER: He is viewing as yet another attempt to delegitimize him or in some way undercut the victory or his amazing day.
BARRACK: Correct. So this was the issue saying I just want parity. I'm not attacking the press. I don't want the press attacking me. Let's just equally go (ph).
COOPER: But, you know, I mean, as you said, it began with a tweet. You know, Hillary Clinton one of her lines she went on the debates was, you know, for somebody who can - and again, I'm misquoting because I don't remember the details of it. But, you know, somebody who can be thrown off by a tweet, do you want him with the nuclear codes. Doesn't that - doesn't Donald Trump being thrown off by a tweet today? Doesn't that play into exactly the criticism of what Democrats have been saying?
BARRACK: Look, my point of view is he wasn't thrown off. In other words he was a consistent view that a new mechanism between this presidency and the press is going to be that he always has an option to equalize the playing field because now with social media and tweeting.
COOPER: That's no doubt he has audience.
BARRACK: With 144 characters he can equalize the playing field. So it is not that he's off. He is saying I want to be on. Let's all -- I think his message is let's bury the hatchet. Let's start tomorrow. Let's start a new deal. Let's give him 100 days. He said get your team in place. Get the Democrats onboard. Say guys, let's stop playing like this.
COOPER: Right. That was not, obviously, the message that Sean Spicer gave today. But certainly, I think that is a message a lot of Americans would certainly embrace.
We have to go. Tom Barrack thank you so much. Always good to talk to you.
"CNN TONIGHT with Don Lemon" starts after this quick break.