Return to Transcripts main page


Mary Tyler Moore Dies; Trump: Torture Works; President Trump Delivers Address on Immigration Control. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 25, 2017 - 15:00   ET



DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we also understand that a strong and healthy economy in Mexico is very good for the United States, very, very good.

We want that to happen. By working together in a positive trade, safe borders and economic cooperation, I truly believe we can enhance the relation between our two nations to a degree not seen before certainly in a very, very long time.

I think our relationship with Mexico is going to get better. Here is a brief summary of what actions are contained in my executive orders.

The secretary of homeland security, working with myself and my staff, will begin immediate construction of a border wall.


TRUMP: So badly needed. You folks know how badly needed it is as a help, but very badly need.

This will also help Mexico by deterring illegal immigration from Central America and by disrupting violent cartel networks. As I have said repeatedly to the country, we are going to get the bad ones out, the criminals and the drug deals and gangs and gang members and cartel leaders.

The day is over when they can stay in our country and wreak havoc. We are going to get them out an we are going to get them out fast and John Kelly is going to lead that way.


TRUMP: Our order also does the following, ends the policy of catch and release at the border, requires other countries to take back their criminals. They will take them back.

Cracks down on sanctuary cities, empowers ICE officers to target and remove those who pose a threat to public safety, calls for the hiring of another 5,000 Border Patrol officers, calls for the tripling the number of ICE officers.


TRUMP: And you both do an incredible job, but you need help. You need more.

Creates an office of Homeland Security dedicated to supporting the victims of illegal immigrant crime.


TRUMP: For years, the media has largely ignored the stories of Americans and lawful residents victimized by open borders. To all of those hurting out there, I repeat to you these words. We hear you, we see you, and you will never, ever be ignored again.


TRUMP: As I traveled the country, I had the chance to get to know mothers who have lost their children to violence spilling over the border. I want to thank the Remembrance Project, such incredible people, for giving these families a voice.

They're called Angel Moms for good reason, because they are a voice to protect all of America's children. Their children have not died in vain, believe me.


TRUMP: Pundits talk about how enforcing immigration laws can separate illegal immigrant families. But the families they don't talk about are the families of Americans forever separated from the people they love.

They don't talk about that, ever.

As your president, I have no higher duty than to protect the lives of the American people.


TRUMP: First, these families lost their loved ones. Then they endured a system that ignored them, while at the same time constantly rewarding those who broke the law.


For these families, it's been one injustice after another. But that all turns around beginning today.


TRUMP: We are joined here this afternoon by parents whose children were horribly killed by individuals living here illegally.

I will now read these parents' names and ask them to stand. Many have become friends of mine over the last two years and have supported me so dearly, and I appreciate it.

Mary Ann Mendoza, who lost her son, police Sergeant Brandon Mendoza.


TRUMP: Fred Funderburgh, and his son James, who lost Billy. Billy was Fred's son and James' brother.

Billy's wife, Natalee, was also killed by an illegal immigrant, somebody that should never, ever have been here.


TRUMP: Laura Wilkerson,who lost her 17-year-old son, beautiful Josh. Josh was special.

Where's Laura? Good.

Laura, thank you. Thank you, Laura.

Carrie Ruiz and Lucio Ruiz Jr., who lost their young daughter, Felicia Ruiz.


TRUMP: Thank you. Beautiful Felicia. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Steven Ronnebeck, who lost his 21-year-old son, Grant.

Thank you, Steven.


TRUMP: And we are have many others with us from Remembrance and from other groups. And these are incredible people that have endured so much. And I just want to thank everybody for being here, very, very special people. Thank you.


TRUMP: Nothing can ever make their pain go away, but I want you to know, your children will not have lost their lives for no reason.

They have set this incredible goal for so many. These were great young people. And they will always be remembered, always. We will never forget them.


TRUMP: And to the parents and loved ones, you kept the flame of justice alive with your activism. Keep it going.

And now, together, we will save thousands and thousands of lives. When it comes to public safety, there is no place for politics, no Republicans, no Democrats, just citizens and good citizens.

We want safe communities and we demand safe communities for everyone. We want respect. We want great schools. We want dignity and equality for everyone. And I will be a president, I promise you, for everyone. (APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We will bridge our divisions, heal our wounds and unify our country. And if we do that, if we work together, then there is nothing we cannot achieve as Americans.

The future is limitless.

Good luck to our new and brilliant leader at DHS, General John Kelly.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless America. Congratulations to John.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So, listening to President Trump there at the Department of Homeland Security, really, the headline talking about his plans immediately to start building this border wall, as he promised as candidate Trump.

Let's go to Jeff Zeleny, our CNN senior White House correspondent, and also CNN's Leyla Santiago is in Mexico City. And John Torres is with us, homeland security expert and former acting director of ICE, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. So, he can talk practicality.


But, Jeff Zeleny, to you first, we know that President Trump told ABC he wants this thing to start being built in a couple of months, but this has to be paid for by existing funds?


And this was certainly a presidential speech outlining the principles that he campaigned on to get here to this office, talking about the border and introducing some family members who he talked about often through the campaign and whose loved ones were involved in horrible acts of violence by undocumented immigrants in many cases here.

But, Brooke, what the president is doing is simply stating what he hopes will be done here. He is calling for some concrete things, expanding Border Patrol agents. He said that he would add some 5,000 Border Patrol officers. He should he would triple the number of Immigrations, Customs and Enforcement officers.

But in terms of that wall itself, this executive order is calling for a study of that wall, and there's going to be some immediate action, but this is just the very beginning of this. And sort of left out of that presidential speech there is specifically how it would be paid for.

And, Brooke, we're talking about billions of dollars. Estimates here to build this wall are billions of dollars, upwards of $10 billion. So many members of Congress in his own party are apprehensive about wondering how this will ever get paid for. Donald Trump of course says Mexico will reimburse the U.S. for that.

That's a very complicated and a very open question, if that would ever happen, Brooke. So this is the opening gambit, no doubt here, fulfilling of a campaign pledge, but it's important to remember this is the very beginning, not the end.

BALDWIN: So on that billions price tag, John, someone who has held a number of senior leadership roles at ICE and you oversaw a multibillion-dollar budget, how does he pay for the wall? And much exactly would this cost?

JOHN TORRES, FORMER ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: Well, that's exactly right.

As you were saying earlier, it's going to cost well into the billions of dollars. The current ICE budget is anywhere between $5 billion and $6 billion annually. So if you think about tripling the size of the ICE agents and then having to talk about adding in infrastructure for the wall, you're easily going to get into the tens of billions of dollars.

And so being able to pay for that is -- initially is probably to be footed by the taxpayer.

BALDWIN: Then he says ultimately Mexico will reimburse the taxpayers, but do you think -- how does he get Mexico to reimburse, John?

TORRES: It's going to be some tricky negotiations. It's going to require a number of bilateral discussions with the Mexican government and quite frankly you have got to get them to the table first to talk about, what would be a quid pro quo sort of thing?

What kind of programs? How is this going to be benefit the Mexican government? How will this ultimately save them money is one of the questions I would be asking if I were Mexico.

BALDWIN: And, Leyla, all of this happening as the Mexican delegation arrives in Washington. You said before this is, what, concerning?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. A lot of the Mexicans that we had talked to just on the street or even lawmakers say this is sort of a sign of disrespect.

Let me take it one step further. Some of the lawmakers here after Trump's tweet and after the announcement of the signing of the executive orders, they are actually calling on the Mexican president to cancel the meeting with President Trump next week.

The delegation is there right now. That was supposed to sort of set the tone. And I should also mention that yesterday the economic minister, who is in D.C. right now with the delegation, said if they try to make us pay for that wall, we are walking away. If they try to tax remittances into Mexico as a way of doing that, we will walk away.

So Mexico taking a little bit of a different tone in just the last few days standing firm and really saying, look, we are going to protect our interests here. BALDWIN: Thus to John's point how complicated and challenging any

negotiation would be with Mexico to say, OK, now pay us a couple billion dollars for this wall we just built.

Let me thank all of you and move on to some other breaking news here on CNN, breaking news that is President Trump's says intelligence professionals have told him torture absolutely, his word, absolutely works, but he conceded that he would follow the lead of his defense secretary, James Mattis, and his CIA director, Mike Pompeo.

This is what he told ABC News in part. And I have to quote it. We don't have the video.


So, let me just read for you. This is Trump's verbatim quote: "We have to fight fire with fire. With that being said, I'm going with General Mattis, I'm going with my secretary because I think Pompeo is going to be phenomenal. I'm going with what they say, but I have spoken as recently as 24 hours ago with people at the highest levels of intelligence. And I asked them the question, does it work? Does torture work? And the answer was, yes, absolutely."

The president went on to say: "I will rely on Pompeo and Mattis and my group and if they don't want to do it, that's fine. If they do want to do it, I will work toward that end. I want to do everything within the bounds of what you're allowed to do legally, but do I feel it works? Absolutely, I feel it works," Trump's words to ABC News today.

Let me bring in Admiral Dennis Blair. He was President Obama's first director of national intelligence.

Admiral, thank you so much for your service and for being here, especially at such a timely moment with all this news. Thank you, sir.


BALDWIN: So, Admiral Blair, just hearing the president's words, it's a mix of fight fire with fire, but I will go with Mattis and Pompeo, but does torture work? Absolutely.

What is your interpretation of that? Is he open to torture?

BLAIR: Well, when I was director of national intelligence, I looked carefully at this question of how do we get useful intelligence from questioning those you capture.

And the scientific answer is that we do not know if torture works or not. There's no evidence that can tell you whether using these harsh methods gets information that is true, that you otherwise would not have been able to obtain by questioning without the harsh methods.

So the answer is, it's not known. And I don't know who the president talked to who told him that torture absolutely works, because no one knows for sure. So if you don't know for sure whether it works or not, then it seems to me you should look out for all of the toxic side effects of running those sorts of harsh interrogation methods, the blowback it means for Americans when our people are captured.

And I think the use of the Army Field Interrogation Manual throughout the government, which was a solution which the government arrived at eight years ago, is a very good one and very sensible.

BALDWIN: Whether it's effective or not, it's illegal, it's banned, period. That is fact.

BLAIR: Yes, yes.

BALDWIN: Let's say that this review or even, Admiral, someone inside the administration says that these black sites CIA prisons work, that -- I know you say you can't prove efficacy of enhanced interrogation techniques or not

How would he even -- if he wanted to walk down that path, how would he even implement the return of torture?

BLAIR: It clearly involves changing the law, changing the practice that has been adopted across the Department of Defense and the intelligence community.

And I'm not sure that the president's personal decision would be decisive in this case. It's a big question, which has to involve the leaders of those agencies. I was glad to see that the president acknowledged the role of the head of the intelligence community and the head of -- secretary of intelligence.

And it's something that should be done openly and publicly as a big national decision, because there are huge downsides in terms of our reputation, in terms of the way that Americans are treated if they fall into the hands of our enemies.

BALDWIN: Right, if the roles were reversed.

BLAIR: Yes, I personally come down on the side of it's neither necessary, proven effective or a good thing to do.

BALDWIN: Admiral Blair, let me just move on to this. This congressional aide tells CNN one of the immigration measures that could be signed tomorrow involves this travel restriction, right, on refugees and people with certain visas from certain countries like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, and Libya.

OK, when you hear all these countries, admiral, is this just -- is this a ban on Muslims?

BLAIR: I think that the reality is that citizens of those countries or those who have actually been in those countries face a pretty careful vetting if they apply for a visa that comes to the United States. And it takes a long time.

[15:20:01] There are question to ask. There's proof has to be given to show that

the purpose of the travel is legitimate, that those who are applying for visas don't match up on any of our lists of people we're trying to watch.

And so we have a pretty good system right now which is based on individual screening. I think that's far more effective than some sort of a blanket prohibiting on screening of citizens from countries...

BALDWIN: How would you characterize, sir, these travel restrictions, superfluous, discriminatory? You tell me how would you see that.

BLAIR: I would say that they are not necessary, and, in general, it's not good to have a blanket travel ban from other countries. Our relationships with other countries that Americans do visit and whose citizens do visit our country for legitimate purposes should be done on an individual basis, not on some sort of ban that has no discrimination.

BALDWIN: Admiral, I have one more just last question. Obviously, the president has the world's attention now that he is questioning the legitimacy of our democracy, right, claiming that millions of people voted illegally in this past historical election that he won, which, by the way, the claims of voter fraud are just false. There is no evidence.

What does that say? What's the message that's sent to the international community?

BLAIR: Well, I think the international community reacts like most Americans react, that we should base our decisions and our proclamations and our policies on evidence and what we agree is the truth.

So, making statements without having a good basis for making them, I don't think is a good basis for either international or domestic policies. I understand the president has ordered an investigation. If the investigation does show that there was massive voter fraud, then let's look at the evidence and draw the conclusions.

Until that point, I think that...

BALDWIN: There are no facts that would indicate anywhere in the neighborhood of that.

BLAIR: I haven't seen any. Have you, Brooke?


BLAIR: Anything brought to your attention?

BALDWIN: No, sir. No, sir.

BLAIR: And if they haven't, then what are we talking about? So, let's -- and I think that's the principle. Certainly, in

intelligence, when you're briefing a leader, whether it be the president or anybody else, you have got to bring facts, you have to bring evidence, you have to bring logical deductions from that evidence, or else you're basing your policies on sand.

And so I think we need to get back to evidence and facts as the basis for sound policy.

BALDWIN: Yes. We like facts as well.

Admiral Dennis Blair, an honor, sir. Thank you for the time.

BLAIR: OK, nice to talk with you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Back to our breaking story on Mary Tyler Moore. We have learned she has passed away at the age of 80. Her friends and fellow celebrities join me live next to remember her tremendous legacy.



BALDWIN: And the famous toss of the cap. I can't believe it. She was 80 years old.

We have got the breaking news today that the legendary Mary Tyler Moore has died at the age of 80, Brooklyn native, was a dancer, of course an actress. She directed. She produced. She was passionate with the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

Let me just read a statement for you before we talk to the Dick Cavett. He's on the phone.

But the statement from her longtime rep reads as follows: "Today, beloved icon Mary Tyler Moore passed away at the 80 in the company of friends and her loving husband of over 33 years. A groundbreaking actress, producer, and passionate advocate for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, Mary will be remembered as a fearless visionary who turned the world on with her smile.

Former talk show host Dick Cavett has called in.

Dick, I'm so sorry for the loss of such a wonderful woman. Can you just -- my goodness, just tell me a story.

DICK CAVETT, ENTERTAINER: Well, obviously, this is awful news for everybody.

By the way, it occurred to me before you came on, I can think of -- don't know anyone else in show business that everybody who worked with liked. Believe me, that's a big thing. And I could name some who are loathed. But Mary was apparently ideal to work with. I didn't -- she was on my show a number of times. I knew her on stage and off, so to speak. I even knew her parents. And she was as delightful in person, of course.

Comedians used to be funny-looking and scraggly and comic-looking, and then there was this wonderful age where we had Lucy and Carol Burnett and Mary Tyler Moore.

And Mary was not only a beauty, but a funny one. If you were teaching a comedy course in a school, you would have to use Mary breaking up with laughter at a funeral, something others have feared and maybe had happened to.