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Trump Shakes Up National Security Council; Trump Adviser Steve Bannon To Become Regular NSC Attendee; Protest Erupt Across U.S. Over Trump Travel Ban; Resistance To Trump's Travel Ban Mounts; GOP Senators Split With Trump Over Travel Ban; 6 Dead, 8 Wounded In Mosque Shooting. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired January 30, 2017 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:44] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump making a big change to the National Security Council downgrading the roles of -- the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the joint chiefs while upgrading his own chief strategist Steve Bannon.
CNN National Chief Correspondent, Jim Sciutto joins us now with the details. What have you learned Jim?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: So a couple of things unusual about this. One you have the elevation of what's essentially a political advisor, Steve Bannon to a regular permanent seat as it were on these national Security Council meetings, but also then taking away that regular seat from the director of national intelligence as well as the chairman of the joint chiefs the commander of all U.S. military forces.
One additional thing that's unusual about that is keep in mind is that DNI your Director of National Intelligence and your defense rather your chairman of the joint chiefs are both Senate confirmed positions. The White House strategist, that's the title of Steve Bannon not semi confirmed. So you had additional voices piping on who these seats at the table would be. You have a good sense of the views and the experience of a down for the chairman of the joint chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats.
Those are differences and you're hearing that and let's be clear, not just from Democrats who held these positions before but from Republicans as well.
[07:35:02] Let's look at what Susan Rice was saying on Twitter yesterday. Really quite angry tweets, "This is stone cold crazy after a week of crazy who needs military advisory Intel to make policy on ISIL or ISIS Syria, Afghanistan. That's DPRK, that's North Korea."
But be clear as well, Alisyn, chair joint chief she mention DNI or after thoughts in cabinet level, principles meaning and CIA cut out everything. She shut but it's not just Susan right from the Obama administration. You have Robert Gates and served both Bush and Obama saying that this is a mistake as well and keep in mind those are people that sat in on those meetings in very trying times for this country alarmed by those changes.
CAMEROTA: So let's talk about who has sat in on those meetings because it's been pointed out that Karl Rove who played the role of Steve Bannon in the George W. Bush White House was not in there. So how unusual is this for a political advisor to have a seat there.
SCIUTTO: Karl Rove, Valerie Jarret, right political advisor to Obama. They weren't on those seats and looking back to George W. Bush that was a constant decision not to have a political advisor on those National Security Council meetings. So there's no question that that is unusual.
And Director of National Intelligence James Clapper I know from speaking to his people that he had a seat every time in those principle meetings so that's different.
Now to be clear I have spoken to others and spoken to people in the CIA for instance that said that while they won't have that regular seat that they're not being excluded. They don't feel they're being excluded. They feel that when they have Intel or council to provide in interjecting those conversations they will be heard, but when you take it together with other move, Alisyn clearly, for instance when you look at these travel ban.
The decision making process on a major national security move like that intentionally concentrated in a very tight inner circle of Donald Trump advisors in the White House that the exclusion, look at the travel ban for instance of the Department of Home and Security Secretary at the exclusion of General Mattis the Pentagon, rather the defense secretary was sitting next to Donald Trump when he signed the executive order.
So, already we're seeing when these decisions are being made it is the tight group advising the President at the exclusion of the cabinet secretary. So, we have to see how this plays out in the national Security Council but if you look at the first week it looks like a pattern.
CAMEROTA: OK, Jim, thank you very much for walking us all through that and helping us understand it. Chris.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
CHRIS COUMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right so our new President for his part is ignoring the widespread criticism and protests calling the travel ban flow, massive success in his opinion. We'll take a look at the fall out for America's reputation around the world, next.
[07:41:22] CUOMO: The Trump White House pushing back against critics of the traveled ban calling it "a massive success story", the executive order banning people from seven Muslim majority countries from traveling to the U.S. for at least 90 days. We're going to hear from both sides. Joining us, former Congressman Jack Kingston of Georgia, he was a senior advisor of the Trump campaign. And we have CNN Senior Political commentator and former Governor Michigan Jennifer Granholm. Good to have you both here.
Mr. Kingston let's start with you. Why is the ban a good thing to do?
JACK KINGSTON, FMR. SENIOR ASVISOR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, I think that what they're doing is continuing the campaign against terrorism which was started of course it's been going on for let's just say decade now. But the seven countries were designated as countries of concern by the Obama Administration, and they were because they are known to have anti-American sentiments. They're known to have terrorist training camps and they're known to have very, very poor documentation and almost impossible vetting people who already leaving there.
And so, those seven countries were selected in a continuation of what the Obama Administration recognized as a potential threat to the United States, potential.
CUOMO: OK. So, the point of push back from the White House has been consistency -- you did the same thing. Obama did the same thing in 2011, would carry through in 2014 and 2015. Fair push back.
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATORS: Well, I think you have been highlighting the facts this morning that nobody from these countries has committed an act of murder in the United States. There's been no tariffs from these countries.
CUOMO: Would you put the same ones? What about that part?
GRANHOLM: But he didn't ban -- he didn't ban people from the countries. That's the problem. The fact that there's no proximity is major problem both legally. And it's a major problem. No proximity Jack, no proximity in terms of what the actual threat is.
KINGSTON: Actually governor that's not true. Two terrorists came in, in 2011 from Iraq that caused President Obama to do a six month ban. This is a 90 day moratorium until we can figure out how do you vet these people. The history -- story on the left -- I understand they're still mad about the results of the election, and these gives people that excuses to attack the Obama -- the Trump administration one more time. But, people from these countries have known to have been involved in terrorist plots.
Steve Miller from the White House said yesterday there were actually about 400 now he did not elaborate. So I'm not -- I'm only going to quote him on that. But people from these countries have caused terrorist attacks in other nations. And what we're doing is not going back and readdressing 911 type threats. We're looking at what's happened. Terrorism is you know evolves. And so we're trying look at and have --
CUOMO: All right. Go ahead. GRANHOLM: You know what though terrorism is also provoked by actions. What you're going to see Jack. And I'll be interested to see how you evolve on this as well. You see all of these Republicans stepping out. You're -- I predict that you are going to see a primary -- if he keeps this up, a primary challenge against President Trump from somebody on the Republican side who wants to make America safe again. Because what he is doing is provoking. And that is not who we are.
And not only that, let me just say one thing about what you raised with President Obama. He took an action in response to something. This is not in response to anything. There has been no actual threat here. And it is too narrow as well. He didn't include the countries in his act --
CUOMO: All right. Go ahead. Jack, response.
KINGSTON: Governor, trying to be proactive is a good thing. We don't always need to it.
GRANHOLM: Not when it violates the constitution.
[07:45:02] KINGSTON: Well, I actually think if we could have proactively done something about Osama Bin Laden before 911. It would have been a good thing. I know you agree with me on that. But let's talk about being politically correct. We've had eight years of that under Barrack Obama that would not use the term radical Islamic Jihad.
GRANHOLM: You know what's politically correct, he was following the constitution.
KINGSTON: And what happened, there was no -- there were no results. And then look at Trudeau in Canada. And it's way too early and I'm not going to say here's the conclusion but Trudeau says we're not going to do what America did. We're open borders and yet where was a terrorist attack this weekend. It was in Canada. That's a very sad thing and I'm not going to say we can draw conclusion.
GRANHOLM: You don't know anything about that. You don't know where those shooters came from.
KINGSTON: But I'm saying that just has been politically correct doesn't get the job done.
GRANHOLM: This is not about political correctness. This is about upholding the constitution. If that's politically correct, call me politically correct.
KINGSTON: Absolutely. Constitutional rights of non-citizens, I think you're getting some very, very murky water governor.
GRANHOLM: Listen --
KINGSTON: But let me say this. You know, is it awkward and should it been -- should they have kind of a pre-check and a global entrance for people who are professionals, international and regular travelers. I agree with you because of the 325,000 people who came in. There were a 109 who are inconvenient. And I think actually that was 109 too many. But the reality is we still need to figure out how do you vet people from these countries that are known to harbor terrorist training camps.
GRANHOLM: No doubt. I agree with you on this. We have to have vetting that is appropriate and appropriate to the challenge. But I would say one other thing. His actions were such a shock across America. That you saw protests at almost 90 airports and venues against what is happening. These protesters are not just from the coast. These protesters are not just politically correct. These are protesters who want America to remember what America is, which is a nation of immigrants unless you are a Native American. You cannot forget that DNA.
KINGSTON: Governor. I have no doubt that the left can get a flash mob instantly tomorrow.
GRANHOLM: This is not about the left.
KINGSTON: We'll see it on the Supreme Court nominee later this week. But --
GRANHOLM: These are human beings who want this country to uphold the constitution.
KINGSTON: We can agree the process should have been better. I think frankly if we could get Democrats to confirm the secretary of state and the attorney general, it would be a huge step in making the progress -- process. And I think you would agree with me on that. President Obama when he -- the first week in office he had 12 of his cabinet members confirmed. President Trump only four. The Democrats are dragging their feet on it.
GRANHOLM: President Trump did not have vetting papers in and President Obama did.
KINGSTON: Governor, its politics you know that.
GRANHOLM: No, no. You are seeing an administration that is acting in a reckless way to try to --
KINGSTON: They've got a responsible way to try to get their cabinet members and try --
GRANHOLM: No, no. I'm talking about this executive order which is sort of mirrored by the lack of vetting that he has been allowing the Democrats to follow through the cabinet nominations.
KINGSTON: Governor, as you know --
GRANHOLM: I'm just saying, you got to be better prepared. That's what I'm saying Jack.
KINGSTON: Governor, you know -- CUOMO: Last point.
KINGSTON: -- the secretary of state designates the seven countries of concern. If you don't have a secretary of state, you have to do what President Obama's previous secretary of state did. Your problem was with Secretary of State Kerry not with an unconfirmed nominee.
CUOMO: Right. Jack, you're making your own point. Maybe you should have waited until you had a secretary of state until you designed a policy. And just as a point of fact, immigration --
KINGSTON: Terrorism can't wait, Chris. Terrorism can't wait. You got to -- we're fighting terrorism here.
CUOMO: All right. I appreciate the spirited discussion its good. But just as point of fact, immigration did continue under that policy that was put in place in 2011. It was returned into a high degree. People were isolated from the countries, no question about that but it wasn't an out right ban. Thank you --
KINGSTON: This is not a ban. This is a 90 day moratorium.
CUOMO: Well, you call it what you wanted. Effectively --
KINGTSON: 90 days only until we forget it out only from seven countries.
CUOMO: All right. I know. You call it a tomato. I'm just saying nobody can get in right now. But thanks for the spirited discussion from both of you. Always appreciate it here.
KINGSTON: Governor you owe me lunch.
GRANHOLM: I do. Let's do and then you owe me dinner. So there.
CUOMO: I'll buy you both lunch. Let me get out of this segment.
KINGSTON: I'm still going to get it a (inaudible) Spartan.
CUOMO: Take care.
CAMERTA: Will it involve a tomato or tomahto?
[07:49:15] Meanwhile, Muslim community leaders are reacting to this President's travel ban. So, how is it affecting their communities? We get that next.
CAMEROTA: President Trump's executive order barring citizens of seven Muslim majority countries form traveling to the U.S. for 90 days has been met with outrage. Here at home and abroad, the White House defense the order insists it is not a Muslim ban.
Joining us now to talk about the Travel Ban and its impact, our Haroon Moghul, he is a Senior Fellow as the Director of Development at the Center for Global Policy, and Rizwan Jaka, his the Chairman of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society.
Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. Mr. Jaka I want to ask you, because you have a huge community there, you are the chairman of the second largest, I believe Mosque in Muslim community in the country. So what is it like for your community? What has the response been to this travel ban?
RIZWAN JACKA, CHAIRMAN, ALL DULLIES AREA MUSLIM SOCIETY: Alisyn, thank you so much. You know peace be with you. As American-Muslim community, we absolutely believe in national security. And we believe in the constitution and upholding American values, and democracy. And we believe that, you know we actually had a holocaust survivor at our mosque yesterday for Holocaust Remembrance Day. And she said it very clearly, that we must welcome the stranger, as the Jewish Community has spoken out, the Christian Community has spoken out, that we must welcome people of all face and backgrounds, the refugees, the immigrants.
And so, we've absolutely agree with the Interfaith Community that we must uphold the American values. I went over to Dulles Airport after the Holocaust Remembrance Event and I spoke to people there. And heard about stories about, you know, a U.S. citizen. His sons who are green card holders from Yemen were made to turn away their green cards and they were turned back. And now they were stuck in Ethiopia. Christian Syrians were turned back.
[07:55:06] And so, this executive order's unintended consequences or intended consequences is really causing a lot of challenges and concerns in the Muslim Community, Christian Community, Jewish Community, and across the Interfaith Communities.
CAMEROTA: Haroon, last night there was an attack on a mosque in Quebec City, Canada. Six people have been killed. We don't know much. We don't know from investigators yet exactly who the people that were behind this or if this is was terrorism. But we do know from the ASLU that there has been a spike in Anti-Mosque activity ever since the San Bernardino attacks. Are Muslims scared right now?
HAROON MOGHUL, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER ON GLOBAL POLICY: Most people are really scared. It's unfortunate but it's the reality. Pretty much every Muslim I know in the U.S. and Canada is really uneasy right now. There is a feeling of being squeezed from both sides of there's this rise in Anti-Muslim sentiment. And now that it's coming from more senior levels of our society. It's much more acceptable so, bigot races are more embolden.
And then, you've got extremist groups who target Muslims who are at least fear Muslim because they justify their actions in the name of religion. So there's this feeling of the walls at both ends, also in me personally, I was overwhelmed this weekend when everything happened at JFK. When the Iraqi interpreters who worked with the U.S. military were being detained, there was this feeling of what is happening right now. Where is this Muslim ban going, is this first step to something darker?
But I will say, and something that I have seen this weekend, is they are so much good right now in this country. I mean the fact that people spontaneously came to one airport and in two. And now as the former governor said in a previous segment 90 airports across the country, thousands of people all over the United States standing up, and that's something I think a lot of people hold on to and have to realize and remember. Is that we're actually the majority, that most Americans are not comfortable with this and where this is going and most Americans are willing to stand up against this kind of treatment.
CAMEROTA: That is so generous of you, Haroon. I mean in the fact that I read your Facebook post yesterday. And you said, you put up "Everybody, you don't panic, don't turn to hate, don't be forlorn, don't give in, don't give up." What is the answer?
MAGHUL: So, this is a concern for me as for the Muslims. There are obviously people out there who are vulnerable, who might be tempted to harm themselves, or harm others, who people who can snap under pressure. They are already on the edge, what's going to be push more at the edge?
So we need to see from Muslim Communities is taking care of each other and checking with each other. And what would I'd love to see from people who are not Muslim and -- and we're already seeing a lot of it, is that solidarity. I mean, I got a message from my business law professor, its summer at high school, two years ago saying, "Hey we all really proud to you and the work you are doing." Right, that kind of thing is amazing and that's what people need to see.
And to take part in and to be reassured by, that this is not a society turning against you. There are some angry people. But the overwhelming majority of people are on your side. And don't forget that and don't turn to a kind of narrative that tells you that you're on at your own in this because you are not on your own.
CAMEROTA: Mr. Jaka, what do you think is the answer in this plummet?
JAKA: You know, its Interfaith solidarity. You know, as Haroon has said, you know the Christian Community, Jewish Community, Sikh, Buddhist, Hindu. You know we are altogether in solidarity, in partnership, and invested in our country to counter bigotry, and counter hate crimes. You know again all our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and the families of the victims of the Quebec City, Islamic Culture Center, you know attack. That you know there was a terrorist attack, and, you know, we appreciate Prime Minister Trudeau's, you know, strong statement of condemning that attack.
And, you know, we have to counter bigotry and hate crimes through working with law enforcement just as we have to protect our country. You know through -- with working with law enforcement. So through mutual respect and understanding, the outpouring of wonderful support from the Interfaith Community is heartwarming. The National Council of Churches, Union for Reform Judaism there and many, many -- the Evangelical Christians are continuing to support and partner with the Muslim Community. This Friday at our mosque, the Interfaith Community and Civic Society are coming to show support.
They have signs, you know that welcoming, you know, with the Muslim Community and loving the Muslim Community. And so, you know we have to respond to bad with good. And that is absolutely, you know, what the Muslim Community will do and all faith communities.
CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, thank you for your kind words. We will speak again soon. Thank you for being here.
JAKA: Thank you. Peace be with you.
CAMEROTA: And you. We are following a lot of news. Let's get to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are 46 other countries with Muslim populations that are not part of this. That's an important thing to note. When he first announced that he said Muslim ban.
RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Show me the right way to do it legally.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: This whole idea that they are being separated and ripped from their families. It's temporary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not right, that's not fair. We can treat (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This executive order was mean spirited an un- American.
CUOMO: Gunmen going on a deadly rampage at a mosque in Quebec.
CAMEROTA: Witnesses describe a coordinated assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quebec City today has been hit by terrorism.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is New Day with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.
[08:00:02] CAMEROTA: Good morning welcome to your New Day, it is Monday, January 30th.
CUOMO: Good catch.
CUOMO: I'll read whatever is in there.
CAMEROTA: I'm not going to say June 30th.
CUOMO: Almost all do frank earlier.
CAMEROTA: President Trump defending his executive order banning people of seven --