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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
Rex Tillerson Sworn in as Secretary of State; Trump Returns from Dover AFB Visit; Flynn to Iran: You're on Official Notice; Protest at U.C. Berkeley Over Speech by Breitbart Writer; UC Berkeley on Lockdown Protest Over Controversial Speaker; Talk Radio Callers Rate Trump's First Days; Fallout from Trump's Order on Refugees, Immigration. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 1, 2017 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:02:23] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Well, topping this hour of "360", President Trump swearing in Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State. The ceremony just a couple of hours ago came after the President's visit to Dover Air Force Base to witness the return of slain Navy SEAL William "Ryan" Owens, who was killed in Yemen over the weekend.
It also comes after his national security adviser sent a sharp message to Iran and after a testimony in the Hill from retired general and CIA Director David Petraeus. General Petraeus had a warning for the White House about maintaining ties with Europe and not antagonizing moderate Islam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Americans should not take the current international order for granted. It did not will itself into existence. We created it. Likewise, it is not naturally self- sustaining. We have sustained it. If we stop doing so, it will fray, and eventually collapse. This is precisely what some of our adversaries seek to encourage.
We must also remember that Islamic extremists want to portray this fight as a clash of civilizations with America at war against Islam. We must not let them do that. Indeed, we must be very sensitive to actions that might give them ammunition in such an effort.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: General Petraeus talking to lawmakers. More now with General Michael Flynn talking to Tehran. Michelle Kosinski has that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: A tough line on Iran at the White House today.
MICHAEL FLYNN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: As of today, we are officially putting Iran on notice.
KOSINSKI: National Security Adviser Michael Flynn offering a cryptic warning after Iran tested another ballistic missile Sunday.
FLYNN: The Obama administration failed to respond adequately to Tehran's malign actions, including weapons transfers, support for terrorism and other violations of international norms.
KOSINSKI: The new administration making it clear it believes the missile launch violated a U.N. resolution. Flynn's comments today follow this warning from U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley yesterday.
NIKKI HALEY, AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: The United States is not naive. We are not going to stand by. We're going to act. We're going to be strong. We're going to be loud. And we're going to do whatever it takes to protect the American people.
SEBASTIAN GORKA, DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: There's a new sheriff in town. His name is Donald J. Trump, and we are not going to follow the policies of the prior administration.
KOSINSKI: Wanting to send a strong message, but how exactly the U.S. will act is unclear. Administration officials say they're not taking any options off the table, including a military response.
The former Deputy National Security Adviser for President Obama Ben Rhodes lashed out on Twitter. "While Russian intervention in Ukraine increases, National Security Adviser Flynn takes time to publicly criticized Obama and not Putin."
[21:05:04] Iran has launched ballistic missiles several times over the last few years. January 2016, the Obama administration's Treasury Department did impose sanctions, specifically targeting those helping Iran get supplies for its missile program. But prior tests have gone down with no more response than statements of condemnation. Experts say the missile tests, while provocative, do not violate the nuclear deal the U.S. and five other countries helped negotiate.
TONY BLINKEN, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Some will say that there are those in Iran who are actually trying themselves to undermine or sabotage the nuclear agreement that we reached with Iran. They're trying to take provocative actions to get us to response, to get us to pull out of the agreement.
KOSINSKI: President Trump on the campaign trail talked about getting tough on Iran but not necessarily reaping off the nuclear deal.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a horrible agreement. I will make that agreement so tough. And if they break it, they will have hell to pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Michelle Kosinki joins us now. So, is the State Department shedding light on how they plan to move forward or do they know? KOSINSKI: Actually, no. I mean keep in mind, the new Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was just sworn in tonight. So there could be a lot more clarity as of tomorrow. But at this point, the State Department isn't even using the same language as the White House. I mean today the White House in no uncertain terms said that the ballistic missile launch violated a U.N. resolution, but the State Department will say only that it was inconsistent with and in defiance of the resolution, that it was provocative.
And there also seems to be not really any clarity here as to what exactly are these options for a response that the White House is talking about. So it seems like there is going to be a period of time where the U.S. coordinates within the administration looks into what happened, likely talks to the U.N. Security Council and considers a response then. Anderson?
COOPER: All right, Michelle Kosinski, thanks.
Jeffrey Lord, retired General Mark Hertling are back this hour, joined by Reza Aslan, host of the CNN Original Series, Believer, a six-part exploration of spirituality around the world, also Christopher Hill, former U.S. ambassador to South Korea and Iraq and former assistant secretary of state for Asia Public Affairs.
General Hertling, I mean, you know General Flynn. When you hear him say Iran is now on notice, was that a mistake, was it intentionally vague or was it -- and is it a mistake to be vague?
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY (RET): I'm sure it was an attempt to be vague. Mr. Trump has said he is going to do that when he said he was going to do that all through the campaign, not signal his intention. But again, Anderson, I'll go back to the fact, you can't use vague language in diplomatic affairs. You have to be somewhat precise and also nuanced.
And for anyone that says well, this is a different president, he's going to do it differently, that's fine for Mr. Trump, but he is dealing with over 200 nations in the world that are used to doing it a different way. And I think it will be problematic and troublesome if this kind of language through either press conferences or tweets continue as opposed to diplomatic channels, demarches and cables
COOPER: Reza, I mean it's a -- I guess it's a novel question, but when the Iranian government hears that that it's on notice, I guess one question is how do they interpret that or at least the different factions in Iran?
REZA ASLAN, HOST, CNN'S BELIEVER WITH REZA ASLAN: Well, it's quite -- it's difficult to say because, you know, as the general quite correctly stated, this was too vague of a statement. I mean it's either an empty threat, bluster, or it is the first salvo in what could very well be an accidental move into a military confrontation with Iran, which of course would have catastrophic consequences for Americans and for the region.
There's no question that this was a provocative act on the part of the Iranians. And I think it's fair to say that it was probably a testing of the new Trump administration. But unfortunately, we have an administration that because of the way that it acts has in many ways mixed a level of frankly incompetence and zealotry into what could be a very dangerous mix for our national security.
COOPER: Ambassador Hill, how do you see this?
CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA AND IRAQ: Well, first of all, I think the Iran deal, by all accounts, the Iranians are holding to the deal, but it's on a very kind of strict constructionist basis. That is, they are not reining in their support to Hezbollah, they are not reining in a missile program, especially a missile program that's not directly related to the nuclear program. That is, these missiles are not believed to be nuclear capable.
So I think the Trump administration has never been very pleased with this agreement. But more importantly, neither have -- has the entire Arab world nor the Israelis.
So I think what the Trump administration is trying to do is to say to all these other allies who have real problems with this and suspect that we're not going to pull out of it, and I suspect we're not either, they say, "Look, we've got our eyes on the Iranians, we're really seized with this. We're going to kind of push them on these issues."
So I think, to some extent, it's an effort to kind of make nice to the Arab world and perhaps to Mr. Netanyahu, who's already on record saying we ought to go back to sanctions.
[21:10:03] So, I think they're trying to thread a lot of needles through. And I think they're going to have to, you know, figure out what they really want to do. And there's no question that, you know, great powers can't bluff. And so we've got to be a little careful when we're kind of putting them on probation or whatever we're trying to do.
COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, is it clear to you who in the administration is sort of the point on this? I mean obviously, Donald Trump is president but we heard from General Flynn today in a public remark. Obviously, Rex Tillerson has now been sworn in. Is this something he will be handling? Do we know?
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think so. I think you'll have Secretary Wilson. I think you'll have Secretary Mattis over Defense Department. It will depend on what the nuance of the issue is.
And let's remember here, you were talking about the difference between the White House response and the State Department response that was much more measured. Historically speaking, the State Department, no matter who is president is sort of that way.
LORD: I mean --
COOPER: The language is always --
LORD: The language, the tale of Ronald Reagan's famous "Tear down this wall." The State Department until the last minute when he was in the limo on the way to give the speech was saying please don't say this. So that's --
COOPER: Amend this wall.
LORD: Right, amend this wall or maybe just not say it at all. And that is to be expected. And you always have this issue with Cabinet members being in Washington when you'll captured by the bureaucracy. Will this happen in the Trump administration? The attempt will be made but we will see how it works.
COOPER: I just want to break into the discussion for a moment. We're seeing some kind of a disturbance and violence in the campus of the University of California in Berkley. CNN's Kyung Lah is there, she joins us now.
What's going on, Kyung?
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, what you're seeing behind me is a quite a bit of commotion. This is an event at Berkley where Milo Yiannopoulos, who is known as an internet troll, a self-proclaimed internet troll, a very provocative speaker, he was invited here to the campus and you can see from the reaction.
I'm going to step out of the shot here. What is happening here is that these are student protesters, some anarchists from what I can gather, trying to breach the building right now.
Ah! Back up! Watch out!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, come on, come on. Go! Let's go!
COOPER: So we're trying to --
LAH: We're backing up. We're backing up. We're backing up.
COOPER: Kyung, can you explain what just happened there?
LAH: What you can see, Anderson, is they're trying to disperse the crowd. The police trying to disperse the crowd. I don't have any idea how many people are here. But you can certainly feel that there's a lot of tension.
From what I can tell --
COOPER: Kyung, if you could --
LAH: -- police officers who are dressed in riot gear are just trying to keep this building where this event is supposed to be happening, secure, what we saw are some of the people picking up barricades and trying to ram through windows and then -- we're going to try to get a little bit closer again. COOPER: OK, Kyung, if you can just explain -- if you can kind of give us the lay of the land? This is -- if you're just joining us, this is a demonstration against a speaker who is -- was invited to speak at the Berkley -- in Berkley, California there is from Brietbart. And there's a number of times and appearances that he's made on college campuses that there have been demonstrations against him. Clearly this is taking it to a new level.
Kyung is saying there was sort of some self-described anarchist types who, you know, often show up to demonstrations like this, who are trying to, in her words, breach the building. And we've lost, I think, IFV with Kyung, which we're trying to get restored.
But you can see just two different vantage points. That would appear to be the building on campus in which I assume the speech was to take place. I'm not sure if the speaker is inside there or exactly what -- if the speech is continuing or ever even started. In some cases on these campuses we've seen the speech has had to be stopped.
Kyung, I understand, you're back with us now. We're seeing two different vantage points. One, ground level shot, the other shot kind of a balcony. And it's not clear to me, at least, there's an individual on the balcony. It's not clear if that's a camera in the person's hand or what exactly is going on there. But can you just kind of give us the lay of the land in terms of where the protesters are, where you are, where the building is and is the speaker inside the building?
LAH: We don't know if the speaker is inside the building. The vantage point that I'm at is I'm on the ground floor, and we are looking at officers dressed in riot gear. And I'm not exactly sure what they're deploying, but they're deploying something from their --
COOPER: Kyung, we're also seeing on -- what is now full screen for us, I imagine those are protesters with makeshift shields that they are actually using. And they are also seemingly throwing things either at police or at the building. Can you see that as well? Those are shields that they have made, that they've brought to the --
[21:15:08] LAH: Yes, I can see them. This -- it looks like they're cardboard shields with black tape over them. What we -- what I'm looking at now is that the crowd is pushing back. Some of the most -- the ones who have been the most violent, they have been dressed in all black. They have black scarves covering their faces. What they done is they've picked up barricades that have been separating the crowd and the protesters and the building. They've literally breached these barricades, picked them up and smashed them through the first floor of this building.
In the lights that were set up, the streetlights that were set up, have been completely knocked over. I can see the word "Milo" spray painted on it with a crossed out. And right now, it just looks like this crowd is not leaving. They have backed up a little bit from the Student Union building, from this union building and there's a bit more space between them and the police, which is something that officers certainly want to try to do at this point. And it looks like they have something that they're -- because I've seen a lot of fire here, that they're throwing something. I don't know what type of device it is, but it is catching on fire, and that is certainly a very big concern, but I don't know if you can hear all of this noise behind me, Anderson.
LAH: This crowd is not leaving. They are not backing down.
COOPER: Kyung, do you have a sense -- it's hard obviously, as we all know, to tell crowd numbers, I don't want to give a sense of this being larger than it is or small than it is. Do you have a sense of how many protesters there are? How many police officers are on the scene? Are there enough police to kind of contain this?
LAH: I don't know. I couldn't fadom I guess. From my vantage point, I can see at least a dozen police officers, but on my way walking in, there were a number of officers that I walked by. So I couldn't guess on how many officers. As far as the protesters, when we walked up right before all of this happened, it looked like this entire square was packed. I don't believe that any of the protesters have left. It just looks like they've pushed further back into the crowd. But if you see the size of the square, it was completely full, and now it's just spreading out around the building. So this is a very sizable crowd.
COOPER: Do you also, Kyung, have a sense of what the schedule for this evening was when the speech was supposed to take place, how long this demonstration had been going on for?
LAH: The demonstration started about an hour and 15 minutes ago. That's when we first saw the crowd beginning to form. The speaker wasn't scheduled to speak until about -- there's still at least an hour and 40 minutes before he was set to speak. The doors had not yet opened. We did see some of the student leaders who had organized and invited him to this event go in. But as far as I know, much of this building was completely empty except for the police department for the officers who were here.
I'm hearing -- OK. We're hearing an announcement. The police are asking everyone to disperse.
COOPER: They're saying if you do not disperse --
LAH: Yes, they're trying to get the crowd to disperse.
COOPER: Right. You can see -- on the right-hand side of your screen, you can see the police officers there giving that announcement over a loudspeaker or bull horn, trying to get people to disperse, warning them that if they do not disburse, the risk of being arrested. That's another vantage point from --
LAH: Anderson --
(CROSSTALK) LAH: I don't see anyone moving.
COOPER: Yeah. Kyung, the university has just announced over Twitter that speech has been canceled. I'm not sure. We just heard that the university in Berkeley has announced that this speech has been canceled over their Twitter account. We'll see if that word is given to those protesters, and obviously, those protesters will certainly see that as some form of a victory, though, you know, again, the counter argument for that is an acceptance of free speech on a college campus, but we have seen a number of these sorts of protests particularly around this particular speaker. And there's clearly a police presence there on that balcony where they are -- able to get kind of an overview of the crowd, kind of survey the crowd.
As we continue to watch these images, let's try to bring in Jeffrey Lord.
I mean Jeffrey, you know, certainly, we have seen protests like this in America's past. It is jarring to see protesters with pre-made shields and dressed all in black, sort of in this organized fashion, trying to stop somebody from speaking.
[21:20:02] LORD: The first thing that popped into my mind when I saw this became Ronald Reagan. When he was governor of California, he sent the National Guard into this very university because of what they called the Free Speech Movement of the day. They'd taken over a part that I think was supposed to be made into dormitories and they wanted to declare it a free open space. In other words, it has stealing property from the university. Governor Reagan was angry. He sent the National Guard in. I believe there was a student killed in all this. So in other words this university has a history of doing this kind of thing, right? I mean, it's very part of the left.
But to your point, whether it's Milo, who by the way this is also Jewish and gay or anyone else, they shouldn't have a free speech right to stand in a university in all places and express their point of view without this kind of thing happening. And this is a serious problem reflected (ph). I think for my point of view, the American left for decades. This is part of their DNA. It's not good. You see this behavior right now. It's self-explanatory. It's terrible.
COOPER: The other question is, you know, does it -- who side -- who does it actually help here? You know, for somebody like this speaker, this kind of attention frankly just emboldens --
LORD: Oh, good question.
COOPER: Right. It -- he has -- he now has a book deal --
COOPER: Right. It's probably more well-known with each of these passing protests.
LORD: That's right. And I should say I don't know him. I've been on his radio show to discuss the issues of the day during the summer, during the campaign. And he styles himself I think as a bit of a provocateur.
COOPER: More than a little bit of a provocateur. Yes, right.
LORD: But all of that is fine and protesting. Let me emphasize, peaceful protest of Milo or anyone else are perfectly fine. But when you see this, this is frankly Nazi-style behavior when they're smashing things and trying to shut people down and there's violence. This has no place in America in my period under any circumstances. I don't care who the speaker is.
COOPER: It is interesting, Kyung. I mean this is certainly a campus, which, you know, in, you know, over the decades has seen large numbers of demonstrations. Has seen, you know, as Jeffrey was talking about, violence in some cases but also plenty of peaceful protests and very active protest movements on campus.
Kyung -- I don't know if you can hear me, Kyung. Is it clear how many of these people who are protesting are actually, you know, students at the university, how many of them have come from outside? Do you know?
LAH: I can't tell. When I was wandering through the crowd, a lot of the crowd had Cal clothing on. So the people you're looking at, though, and I'm not sure what camera you're looking at right now, they're wearing black. About half of them have Cal clothing on. Half of them do not. So I do not -- whoa. OK. Sorry, we're trying to move back. Oh, wait! OK, OK. We're backing up, backing up.
COOPER: So that -- it look -- Kyung, let me just ask you, that area that you are now backing up from, is that the entrance to the building? Is that just one side of one particular entrance?
LAH: This is the -- this is one entrance to the building. This is the entrance we believe that people were lining up to go in to see the speaker. There is another entrance, but this has been sort of the focal point where the protesters have been trying to stop people who wanted to see the speaker from going in.
Something I need to explain as well, Anderson. What is hanging over all of this, when you walk through the crowd and talk to people, they say yes, it is about this event, it is about this speaker, but this is also about national politics. This is very much about Donald Trump.
There are a lot of signs of anti-Trump signs that are here. People speaking about the Cabinet. So this, on the surface, does appear to be just about this one event, just about this one speaker. But I can tell you from everything we've seen here, national politics hangs over all of this. It is inflaming all of the passions here. And while it does look like that the most energetic people, the ones who are violent, the protesters who are violent are driven by whatever motive, what is riding over all of this indeed is national politics, Anderson.
COOPER: Kyung, I understand that the police have now said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that they, in a matter of minutes or in short order plan, to clear the area. And there you see now somebody lighting --
LAH: O, back up. OK.
COOPER: So, Kyung, did the --
LAH: Sorry, Anderson.
COOPER: Did you hear from --
LAH: I'm not sure how much gasoline is in that.
COOPER: Did you hear from the police that they plan to clear the square now?
LAH: There was a warning from the police, a verbal warning saying to get out of the square. And as we're backing up here, this is something clearly that they've got to get a handle on.
COOPER: What is that actually burning? I mean, is that -- it looks like something with a door on it. Is it a --
[21:25:05] LAH: It's a light. It's a streetlight. The kind of lights you see when there's a major event that the city pulls out. So it's a large light that was tipped over and now has been set on fire.
COOPER: U.C. Berkeley police now have announced --
LAH: There is no media --
COOPER: -- over Twitter that the speaker -- Kyung, U.C. Berkeley police have announced over Twitter that the speaker who was scheduled to speak tonight on campus has left the campus and is no longer there. Clearly, they are hoping to try to defuse this as much as possible and get people to kind of move on. It does not look -- I mean, and Kyung correct me if I'm wrong, does it look to you, is that people are clearing out in response to the police?
LAH: Oh, no. I mean, just as I look at the arc of the crowd here, they're -- I can't -- I mean -- yeah, no one's moving. You know, there's a large crowd here. They're just watching this light burn and there is a very scary energy happening here. People are waving flags. A lot of people look very delighted that this is happening. And as -- I'm sure people are on Twitter looking at this, what they really wanted was exactly what you just said, Anderson. They wanted to shut this down. And so, you know, no one's moving. So --
COOPER: Kyung, it was --
LAH: -- at some point -- those are --
COOPER: Sounds like firecrackers.
LAH: That's fireworks. It's fireworks. Yeah.
COOPER: Yeah, that one outside was a firework. Kyung, it sound -- it looks like what some sort of an accelerant used. I mean, this maybe a dumb question but was an accelerant used on that fire? Because -- I mean that's a metal object that's burning. Is it gasoline that's burning?
LAH: I don't know. That's what a little alarming. I'm not sure. So what we have seen are some of the protesters throwing --
COOPER: Yeah, you know, I'm being told --
COOPER: I'm being told that's a generator. It's a freestanding light that has its own generator, which likely has gasoline inside it. So that's probably what has ignited. So you're wise obviously to try to keep your distance from that. Not clear how much gasoline is inside that generator.
We're looking, Kyung, just to our -- you know what our viewers are watching. On the right-hand side of our screen, we're probably watching what is from your camera, which is a tight shot of the flames on that light in that generator.
On the left-hand side of our screen, we're looking at -- from our affiliate Kron, which has a slightly different vantage point. A little bit of a wider shot where you see some more people kind of who are standing around. But it looks like, Kyung, that the protesters now -- are you in an area kind of where the media is and the protesters are farther pushed back? Or can you kind of explain the layout?
LAH: The -- where I'm standing is, if you have an aerial vantage point of where we are, it looks like there's a ring around this building. I'm standing pretty close to this light that's burning. So I can see the entire arc of this crowd. And as this fire gets bigger and bigger, there are cheers from this crowd and people getting closer to try to take pictures, which is astonishing to me. And the firecrackers are still going off. So --
COOPER: And there we see another blaze.
LAH: There's -- and there's another fire being set here. It looks like the -- that's an American flag that they have set on fire.
So, yeah, the -- I can't tell from where I'm at, because I'm standing toward the front, close to the fire. I can't tell how far back this crowd goes. But from where I am, there's a ring of protesters surrounding this building and there are dozens and dozens and dozens of protesters standing around just watching all of this happen.
LAH: So we did hear from the police that they were going to try to clear this area.
COOPER: The fire is -- looks like it's spreading actually somewhat on the ground. I assume that's the gasoline --
LAH: That's a tree catching on fire. Let's back up. Let's back up, Jordan. COOPER: Yeah. It looks like not only that tree could -- it looks like that fire could get close to that building to the staff, certainly in the balcony. There are police who have been monitoring this from that very balcony. They obviously will have to move off from that direct area because of the smoke and the actual flames.
That is the balcony that there are police not only with what appeared to be tear gas devices but also a bull horn in order to try to get people to move away, telling people that they face arrest if they remain at this demonstration.
We're going to take a quick break. We're going to return to this protest at Berkley, California and more news ahead. We'll be right back.
[21:32:52] COOPER: And welcome back. You're looking at live pictures from two similar but different vantage points at a plaza at the University of California, Berkley. Flames erupting protesters out of force. The violence surrounds (ph) a scheduled event featuring Brietbart editor, Milo Yiannopoulos. The event has now been canceled. We're told that Milo Yiannopoulos is no longer on the campus. Our Kyung Lah is there joining us.
What is the -- what's going? We were in a short break. Kyung, any sense that the crowds are starting to dissipate?
LAH: No, absolutely not. We've moved sort of closer to try to get a look at who these protesters are. They're very young faces. I can't tell if they're all students or not. But you can see the size of the crowd. It's almost turned into a party atmosphere here, as word is spreading that the speaker will not be -- that the event will not be moving forward.
And even though we've seen incendiary devices go off, we've seen them tip over that light. There's a fire going on. Part of the tree caught fire. They are beginning, again, to try to approach the building. So it's -- it doesn't look like this crowd is moving. But what the police department has announced is that they want this crowd to disperse. We can see police officers on the balcony of this building.
And if you look over here, look over there, Jordan, you can see that there just basically -- it feels like a street party. It's so unusual, given that just a few minutes ago, we were seeing them ramming barricades into the windows of the student building. Second -- as I look inside, I can see that a lot of the windows have been smashed. And I'm going to move a little bit closer this way. And I'm not sure, Anderson, if you're seeing my camera or not, but there are a lot of signs here that say "Resist", "This is war." A number of signs saying that -- looking at this one, "No safe space for racists." and a lot of people dancing.
[21:35:04] I'm going to guess that the people in all black who have their faces covered, because this is an area known for lack of a better term, professional protests in the Bay Area, that they are not students. So -- but some of this -- some of them are. I mean, I can -- or they're just wearing the school clothing. But --
COOPER: OK. You know, Kyung --
LAH: The song that they're playing, I just want to point out --
COOPER: No, go ahead. Go ahead.
LAH: The song that they're playing is a rap song with Donald Trump's name in it. So earlier, I was talking about how national politics hangs over all of this, it certainly is. I mean, they're playing it. And they're playing the song. They are, at the same time, angry about the speaker, but also angry about national politics. Or, they could just be using it as a reason to riot. That's another option, but that's something that could be happening as well.
COOPER: Kyung, standby --
LAH: And if you look at the depths of this crowd, Anderson.
COOPER: Standby for us if you will, Kyung. On the phone right now is Malini Ramaiyer, reporter for the campus paper, "The Daily Californian". She's been since this began.
Thanks so much for being with us. How -- can you just explain sort of your vantage point on this, kind of what the schedule, how this all transpired?
MALINI RAMAIYER, REPORTER, THE DAILY CALIFORNIAN: OK. So a lot of people -- so people started dancing around 5:00. There was an organization called as fascism.org that kind of started the protest. And then more and more people gathered. Around the time when Milo supposed to speak, they moved around the MLK Student Union, which is where Milo supposed to speak. And there was a lot of organization who tried to block the doors. They cover the entire -- they surrounded the entire building.
Also, while that was happening, some individuals in black mask started a fire on Bancroft Street or Bancroft Way, blocking off traffic. And then I went back to the building and saw that there was firecrackers that had went off. People started breaking the glass of the Student Union. And then that's kind of when they canceled the event.
COOPER: And is that the building we're looking at now? Is that the Student Union where the event was to take place or?
RAMAIYER: Yes, yes. That's the building where the fire is in front of, currently. And people are surrounding the fire, dancing.
COOPER: And, Malini, is it your sense that most of these are -- most of the people protesting are actually students? You mentioned this group that was sort of trying to organize it on social media. Is that a student group?
RAMAIYER: No, that is actually a group from the Berkley community, except -- I'm not exactly sure. They just told me they were with this fascism.org. I also saw Berkley High School teachers here in Berkley. I'm not sure if they're Berkley High School students, but I saw a few teachers here. A lot of older people as well not just students, but yeah, I would say a lot of them are students and professors.
COOPER: And how much of this is about this particular speaker who we've obviously seen demonstrations against this speaker on other college campuses? And how much is sort of a larger protest about other issues? About whether it's Donald Trump or whatever it may be?
RAMAIYER: Yeah. So I was covering the event, so I don't really know what really -- I mean, I know that they were doing a lot of chants for -- against Trump and against fascism. And there were a lot of chants against the new presidency. But a lot of it was got to do with Milo and how -- I saw a lot of posters that said "Hate speech is not free speech," stuff like that.
COOPER: And do you know how much publicity did this speech have in advance? I mean, and we're looking at shots from -- I assume this is not a live picture, am I correct? Yeah, this is from moments ago. And people -- just so you know, Malini, what we're showing our viewers, is actually people, looks like they're hammering at windows, breaking the windows. I guess it's the Student Union, as you spoke about, and ramming actually barricades.
Do you have a sense, Malini, of how -- what kind of a police presence is there right now? We see police officers inside the building. We saw some on the balcony. Are there many actually on the ground in front of the building at all?
RAMAIYER: I don't see very many police officers among the crowd. A lot of them are on the balcony. It's mostly students that are surrounding the fire.
COOPER: And is it all just campus police officers? Or is it local police officers as well?
RAMAIYER: I'm not sure if the Berkley Police Department is here, but the University Police Department is here, and they also had police departments from other U.C. campuses come up for this event as well.
[21:40:04] COOPER: How often are there -- I'm not sure how long you've been at U.C. Berkley, but how often are there protest on campus?
RAMAIYER: Well, I've been here for a year, and protests happen very, very often. It is -- it's just the nature of the school. And it's something I cover as a journalist here as well. So, yeah, protesting is a thing here on campus.
COOPER: And in terms of the protests you've seen in your year there, is this sort of the largest or the most -- I mean, I don't know how common it is to have fires lit, how do you -- what do you make of it?
RAMAIYER: Yeah. So, I mean, I covered on election night -- I mean, this is the biggest protest I've seen in terms of how much it escalated. I've never seen fires before or tear gas or rubber bullets. But on election night, they marched down all the way down telegraph that's the main street to Oakland. And then they also did that on inauguration day.
COOPER: And we saw attempts to extinguish the flames. Has tear gas actually been used, and you mentioned rubber bullets, do you know for a fact those have actually been used?
RAMAIYER: Sorry, can you repeat that?
COOPER: Yeah, do you know for a fact that tear gas has actually been used, that rubber bullets have actually been used?
RAMAIYER: Yes. I saw that -- so I was there when the police were shooting the rubber bullets and I believed it was tear gas and never I experienced it before but that's what it's been like.
COOPER: OK. I also want to bring back in our Kyung Lah.
Kyung, we're looking at, since or moments ago, of windows being broken, people in black. This is actually live images of a window that's obviously been shattered sometime earlier.
It does look, Kyung, in this view that we're looking at right now, which I think is from your camera, I mean there's a lot of people milling around now very close to the building. Is there a police presence actually on the ground, outside the building? Are they mostly inside the building?
LAH: The police officers we've seen are right above us on the second floor. And what you're seeing here is, you know, the barricades, the result of some of these protesters ramming barricades through the first floor here. You can see for yourself, Anderson, they have taken these steel barricades and rammed through at least some of these windows. And take a look down this way. You can see there's a barricade just sticking out of the window.
I don't see any officers here, at least where I'm standing. You can taste and feel the tear gas that's been deployed. But, you know, other than that, there's really no sign of a police just right in my vantage point. I did earlier see them on the second floor. One of the students, he just saw them. But from where we are, we have not -- I don't see any police officers here on the ground floor.
And you can see there's quite a bit of a crowd. I want to walk you over this way. Excuse us. You can see this way. You can see -- get a better look at the crowd. This is a large crowd. And despite police orders, telling them to clear out, they're not going anywhere. And they're still chanting. They're still dancing.
We were asking about some of the homemade shields. I can see some of them here. They're holding them up. They're using them. And they're surrounding this, what's left of this fire, almost as if it's a party, you can see people moving around and dancing. So, you know, the police did give the order to disperse some time ago. It was at least 10 or 15 minutes ago, and no one here is heeding that order. COOPER: Kyung Lah, I appreciate it. Malani Ramaiyer, I appreciate it as well. We're going to keep an eye on this upon new developments ahead. Other news, we'll look at whether Donald Trump supporters are happy with his Supreme Court choice and his executive order on immigration. That's next.
[21:48:02] COOPER: Well, the Trump administration isn't even two weeks old, and the reviews are mixed to say the list as you would expect in this polarized nation. There have been protests from Women's Marches to the backlash over President Trump's executive orders to some of the protesters in the Berkley campus tonight.
The very same time, many Trump supporters are celebrating, for their perspective President Trump is delivering on his campaign promises, including his vow to appoint a new Supreme Court Justice.
Tonight, in their own words, what people are saying on a conservative talk radio show in Pennsylvania? They're not all on the same page of course, but they are an important piece of the story. Randi Kaye reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOM GIORDANO, RADIO HOST: -- Dom Giordano show welcoming everyone. Thanks so much for joining us.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just hours after Donald Trump announced his pick for the Supreme Court, the phone lines at 1210 WPHT radio in Philadelphia are on fire.
GIORDANO: All right, Bill, were you happy last night with this?
BILL: Dom, very happy and I agree with you. I think this is what we elected Trump to do. This is a hatchet fight. It's not reaching across the aisle. It's not playing nice. It's not trying to be professional. It's hand-to-hand combat.
GIORDANO: Let's go to Joy in Downingtown.
JOY: I like the pick because it is in the same old as Scalia and since you're replacing Scalia it makes sense.
KAYE: One caller named Alicia told radio host Dom Giordano, she thinks the Supreme Court nomination of Judge Neil Gorsuch is a major loss for Democrats.
ALICIA: When it comes to abortion and the immigration laws, everything, a lot has changed in over 200 years, and I think that the Democrats are kind of looking at maybe more of a modern-day take on the Constitution whereas this guy is just representing another conservative view.
KAYE: Listeners also eager to weigh in on President Trump's Chief Strategist Steve Bannon, who many consider the architect of the travel ban.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like he is the one with the godfather strings.
GIORDANO: Let's go to Mike (inaudible). Mike, how do you see Bannon?
[21:49:59] MIKE: I see him as indispensable. I think that Donald Trump is an executive and appreciates the unique skills that a strategist brings to the table. And I think that Bannon is a strategist, is the only person in the room who's able to connect the dots. You change agent, he's a disrupter. And I think that Bannon is the true north.
KAYE: Not everyone is sold on Bannon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is Svengali. He is the "Fourth Turning" leader, you know, heading us into the purification apocalypse. And, you know, I'm somebody who voted for Trump. And he is making me nervous. He's going to be next guy to get fired. I think he is a liability. He is a way out.
KAYE: A caller named Dwight described Bannon as nasty and devious.
DWIGHT: Bannon was brought in to be like the big old mean old junkyard dog. But that's the only good he serves. So he needs to get back into the kennel right now.
KAYE: And about that travel ban on Muslims and refugees, mixed opinions form listeners on Trump's handling of that too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's just doing what he said he would do, and everyone's going nuts. Obama didn't do anything he said he was going to do. We have to vet people that are coming into the country. That is a law. All Trump is doing is saying you got to enforce the laws that are already there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This extreme vetting is nonsense. My parents were refugees. And I've lost the family members who were refugees that came over here. The process takes two and a half, sometimes three years. If I'm a terrorist and I plan on getting over here, that is the least efficient and the most -- it would -- you'd be a stupid terrorist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Now, of all the topics we've covered on the show earlier it was Steve Bannon who seems to get the listeners most fired up. And I asked the host Dom Giordano why that was? And he seems to think that his listeners believe in this great expense of utopia that Steve Bannon seems to have. They believe that he will deliver on this utopia or this perfect community, this heavenly country to conservatives.
He also said that he thinks that his listeners, Steve Bannon as some type of mythological figure, mythological genius, they like where he is, they like that he has the President's ear, they like him whispering in the President's ear, and they think that he has great influence over the President and they're happy about that, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Randi, thanks very much. I appreciate it.
Just ahead, the possible long-term fallout from Donald Trump's travel order overseas and here at home. I'll talk to "New York Times" columnist and author, Thomas Friedman.
COOPER: Quick update out of Berkeley. Milo Yiannopoulos has just spoken out about the rioting that forced the cancellation of his appearance, "I have been evacuated from the IJC Berkeley campus after violent left-wing protesters tore down barricades, lit fires, threw rocks and Roman candles at the windows and breached the ground floor of the building. My team and I are safe. But the event has been canceled. I let you know more when the facts become clear." One thing we do now for sure, he says, "The left is absolutely terrified of free speech and will do literally anything to shut it down."
And before the break, we heard what callers are saying on a conservative talk radio show in Philadelphia about President Trump's policies, including ones that affect America's place in the world.
"New York Times" columnist and author, Thomas Friedman, is a long time observer and explainer of all things global. His new book is, "Thank You for Being Late: An optimist's Guide to Thriving in the Age of Accelerations". I spoke to him earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:55:06] COOPER: Just in terms of overseas reaction in kind of -- even if this a short-term thing or temporary ban, the long-term ramifications.
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, AUTHOR, "THANK YOU FOR BEING LATE": Well, you can look at it two ways, Anderson. One is obviously the ban itself and what they will do in a place like Iraq? I mean it's so contradictory. We're actually asking Iraqis now to join us in battle against ISIS in Mosul and as well as in -- not Iraqis, but Kurds and others in Syria, but all basically Sunni Muslims. And at the same time, we're saying you are banned from coming to our country at least for the next 90 to 120 days.
And at the same time though this people are -- they're watching CNN, they're watching the news, and what they're seeing is an incredible sign of health of our society and embrace of pluralism. People going in the streets all over the country actually to resist this ban. And so, I don't think the message is just one way. I mean, you only think about what a remarkable country this is. We twice have elected a black man who defeated a woman to run against a Mormon. Like who does that? You know what I mean? And it's the beautiful thing about America but I don't sense that Donald Trump embraces that.
COOPER: But I mean, if you're in Iraq right now and, you know, there's U.S. forces on the ground, the President is talking about taking your oil -- FRIEDMAN: Yeah.
COOPER: -- which he's talked -- I mean, talked about that during the campaign, and I mean, I questioned him about that, it made no sense. The actual plan, send in U.S. oil companies, surround them with the U.S. troops, take Iraq's oil, to the victors go the spoils.
COOPER: He's talked about that as President of the United States. He said, "We haven't done it, maybe we'll have another chance to do it." I mean, how do you get people to cooperate with the United States in the fight against radical Islam and, the fight against Islamist, when the very people we need are Muslims, whether we like it or not?
FRIEDMAN: He just talked about the oil thing from (inaudible) and how brain dead stupid that is. I mean, U.S. to take country's oil, you don't just go in with a straw, take it out like it's a McDonald's milkshake and then leave. Iraq's oil spread all over the country.
FRIEDMAN: Exactly. You have to permanently occupy, you know, Iraq. And so --
COOPER: And, by the way, they are our ally.
FRIEDMAN: That is right.
COOPER: It's not an enemy that we are the victor over it, they are supposedly our ally that we are helping, that was the whole idea.
FRIEDMAN: Yeah, so please join us in defeating ISIS, wiping them off the face of the earth as the President said. And at the same time, we may take your oil and please don't apply for a visa.
What worries me even more from all of this, Anderson, is the Iraqi, the Syrian, the Egyptian, just to name a few, who maybe was thinking of coming to America to study. You know, this is iPhone. It was invented actually by a guy named Steve Jobs. It was conceived by Steve Jobs. The guy who was conceived Steve Jobs was an immigrant student to the University of Wisconsin in 1950s. His name was Abdulfattah Jandali and he came from Homs, Syria.
So this phone actually was now the center of our lives, started with a Syrian immigrant who came to our country to -- because he believed in the American dream.
COOPER: It's also interesting just the countries which are on this list, and the countries which are not. I mean, Saudi Arabia, which you know, the 9/11 hijackers, the majority of them were Saudi, if memory serves me correct. Afghanistan is not on this list.
FRIEDMAN: If you weigh in Egypt, they also had 9/11 hijackers.
COOPER: Yeah. FRIEDMAN: In Pakistan --
FRIEDMAN: -- was conceived by a Pakistani.
FRIEDMAN: So, the thing makes no rhyme or reason. These are probably the most countries that can least defend themselves from this kind of thing.
COOPER: But, you know, it's interesting, because you hear from people who say, "Well, look, this makes me feel safer." It makes me feel -- and we've heard a lot about feelings in this campaign of, "Well, I don't feel like things are better. I don't feel safer." And yet, the reality is, if you look at, you know, who's committed terror attacks in the United States, it's not refugees who are coming in.
FRIEDMAN: Right. And, you know, there's no question, the Trump campaign spent an enormous amount of energy making people afraid, making people afraid of Muslims, making people afraid of Mexicans, making people afraid of trade and globalization and then presenting Donald Trump as the man who will protect you from all of that.
And frankly it worked. That's not to say there aren't real issues around this. You know, Islam has issues with pluralism. OK. Trade has cost some jobs. All of these have a grain of truth and maybe more in some ways. And I think the challenge for frankly up moderate Republicans and Democrats is to acknowledge what is sort of true and -- Trump has grabbed people by the gut, you know, and then taken them, I think, to a bad place.
[21:59:59] I think the challenge of moderates and moderate Republicans and Democrats, grab them by the guts, say, I acknowledge your concerns, your fears, but let's go to a different place because where he is taking you actually won't work.
COOPER: Tom Friedman, thanks very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Time to hand it over now to Don Lemon for CNN TONIGHT. I'll see you -----