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U.S. Military Looking Into Some Very Serious Allegations That American War Planes Targeting Isis Fighters In Iraq Dropped Bombs That May Have Killed Hundreds Of Civilian People In The Northern City Of Mosul; President Trump's Health Care Defeat On Capitol Hill; I'm President And You're Not, So Says President Trump; Uncertainty Over President Trump's Travel Ban Has Canada's Largest School System In Toronto Taking Drastic Measures. Aired 7:00-8:00p ET

Aired March 25, 2017 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:09] ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Breaking news. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We begin with this breaking news. Right now, the U.S. military looking into some very serious allegations that American war planes targeting ISIS fighters in Iraq dropped bombs that may have killed hundreds of civilian people in the northern city of Mosul. Now, that charge comes from a local official in Iraq. The Pentagon also investigating this and they are looking into report of civilian casualties in Syria as well.

Joining me on the phone right now, CNN's Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

Barbara, what is the latest?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): Good evening, Ana. It's a confusing picture. It's very serious. The U.S. military taking it very seriously tonight. A short time ago, the U.S. central command, the coalition announced it is opening a formal assessment into whether on March 17th, in west Mosul, it may have dropped bombs and it killed a significant large number of, perhaps, perhaps hundreds of civilians. So the issue right now, nobody knows exactly what happened.

All of this began to emerge over the last couple of days as social media activists in the area began to report large number of civilian casualties due to bombings in west Mosul, where there is very tough fighting against ISIS. The picture has been pretty murky, because there's so many conflicting reports, and the U.S. doesn't have anybody on the ground there that can put eyeballs on the situation and really verify it.

But the Pentagon, the coalition today, a short time ago said that they have been able to determine that, yes, they did conduct the air strikes in one of these areas, where the allegations have emerged from on March 17th. So, now they will conduct a formal assessment. They will look at all of the data they have. They will look at the allegations. They will try and figure out what exactly did happen, were civilians killed, how did this happen? One of the theories may well be, we are told, that ISIS took

civilians, held them as human shields, human hostages in buildings it knew might be struck by the coalition. So the U.S. military has a view already that if there was an atrocity here, ISIS, people need to remember, and I think it's a fair point, you know, ISIS has conducted many human atrocities, murders, human shields, taking people hostage over the years. This may be another case of that. The U.S. military tonight very adamant that there is no loosening of their rules for no toleration of civilian casualties. They are as careful, as they say, as they can be. But tonight even tonight the Iraqi government jumping in and also investigating all of this - Ana.

CABRERA: Right. You talked about March 17th being a specific date that the Pentagon is looking into. But Iraqi officials on the ground are reporting that there were civilian casualties on March 22nd and 23rd. What more do you know about multiple incidents now?

STARR: Well, there may well be. That - you have put your finger on it. This is the problem that investigators are already struggling with and have been looking for several days. The allegations of all of this would mean started emerging on the ground over the last several days point to a range of days between March 16th and March 23rd, where people on the ground were indicating that there had been bombings, there had been fighting and there had been a significant number of civilian casualties. So that's between March 16th and March 23rd, just over the last week or so.

So far, what we are hearing from the U.S. side is they have looked at that 16th to the 23rd. They can only verify right now that they believe they conducted strikes on the 17th, in the area corresponding to the allegations of civilian casualties. The Iraqis are looking at a broader range of dates. And the U.S. is also still looking, it should be said, to see if they can still match up any other U.S. air strikes or coalition air strikes that may correspondent to some of these allegations.

So, a very confusing picture, but something that is being taken extremely seriously, because the allegations are that, perhaps, up to 200 or more civilians may have been died as a result of the air strikes and they may, we do not know, they may have been human shields taken by ISIS, there may have been secondary explosions in the area, but somehow, U.S. pilots, coalition pilots may have dropped bombs and the result really, a catastrophe.

[19:05:21] CABRERA: And we are seeing the result of those bombs. We are looking at pictures right now of some of those folks in the area being pulled out of the rubble. You see anguish on their faces. Such a tragedy right now.

Barbara Starr, reporting. We appreciate all the latest information.

Joining me now from Denver, the former United States ambassador to Iraq, Christopher Hill.

Thank you, ambassador, for joining us. First, your reaction to this report? CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, first of all,

this is just awful. I mean, this is a very high degree of collateral damage. And we haven't seen this in a long, long time. So this is pretty bad.

I want to, though, stress some of the points that Barbara has already made, frankly. ISIS' MO, their Modus Operandi is, indeed, to use human shields, is indeed to store ammunition among civilians. So I would not rule out there is this kind of issue.

Obviously, this is particularly sensitive, because you have a Shia-led Iraqi government. You have a lot of Sunnis in the area, with great suspicions of the Iraqi government. And frankly, suspicions of us, because we helped put a Shia-led government in power in Baghdad. So this is going to require some depth diplomacy. I'm sure other Sunni countries are looking at this very carefully. We have already seen some of the Sunni reaction within Iraq, to be that we need to slow this down, slow these attacks on ISIS.

I do want to stress that ISIS is on its heels. It's been on its heels for several months. And I think we can look at this, probably as acts of desperation on the part of ISIS, certainly, the -- what I believe will turn out to be the use of human shields and storing ammunition amongst civilians.

CABRERA: You say kind of take a deep breath, let's look at this and make sure we have all the facts here. From your experience in Iraq, how credible are the claims made by officials on the ground there?

HILL: Well, I mean, I think the old line that you can't believe first reports is usually true. I mean, first reports often exaggerate or their underestimate. So, what I do know is the U.S. military has a lot of, a lot of experience going into these issues and finding out what exactly happened. And I think we should all be deeply grateful for our U.S. military that does not cover up the facts when those facts emerge.

So I do think we have to take a deep breath. And I do think we have to take some time to see what exactly happened. But then I think there needs to be a very active diplomatic approach, because there are going to be a lot of Sunni countries, many of whose populations are kind of ambivalent about this war of annihilation against ISIS.

No one likes ISIS, but there's certainly a view in parts of the Arab world that somehow ISIS is at least doing something about Shia in the way that other Sunni-led countries have not. So, there is some measure of sympathy, and we need to be up and ready for that, and really aggressive diplomatically.

CABRERA: Do you have any idea how long an investigation into this matter could take?

HILL: You know, since there's so many different strikes we are talking about, first, they have to do, as Barbara suggested, figure out whether our planes were in the air at those times. But I suspect we are not going to know positively for, you know, probably not more than, you know, the next few days, we are not going to know yet. So I think it will take a little longer. But again, I want to stress, the U.S. military is very diligent on these things. And I think when they figure it out, they will tell us precisely what happened.

CABRERA: You know, it's interesting, as we have been doing airstrikes now for a long time, for months, and I'm looking at a report from air strikes that happened just yesterday, it says, this is from CENTCOM, coalition military forces conducted 14 strikes, consisting of 55 engagements against ISIS terrorists in Syria and Iraq. So we are talking about dozens of airstrikes, but now concentrated in just a few days, hundreds of civilian casualties. Does it surprise you that this is an issue that's just happening now?

HILL: You know, that's why I'm of the view that when the investigation is finally done, they are going to see some ISIS tactics behind some of this to really try to get this outcome of heavy civilian casualties. As you point out, we have been doing this for a long time, and we haven't had this kind of issue.

I think, also, you have to remember, that some of these strikes, presumably, are in support of ground operations. That's a much tougher proposition to be hitting very specific points at specific times. And so, you do increase the risk of civilians, especially as there's so many civilians in the area. But I really think, I see the hand of ISIS in some of these civilian casualties.

[19:10:15] CABRERA: Ambassador Christopher Hill, thanks again for talking with us tonight.

HILL: Thank you.

CABRERA: We will continue to stay on top of this story.

Meantime, also, here tonight in the NEWSROOM, President Trump tries to pick up the pieces after a shattering setback on Capitol Hill. We will look at the blame game and his next priority now that his health care bill has gone down without a vote.

Stay with us.


[19:14:43] CABRERA: We are getting brand-new details on President Trump's health care defeat on Capitol Hill and how conservatives from his own party handed him his first major policy setback since taking office. The focus, some tense moments between the President and members of his own party in the house. Now, Republican sources tell CNN the President had a stinging lesson on how deal making works in Washington.

I want to bring in Athena Jones, CNN's White House correspondent.

Athena, war you learning about this apparently contentious meeting?

[19:15:11] ATHENA JONES, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A couple of contentious meetings or at least contentious moments, Ana. This is, of course, a President who cast hills as a master dealmaker, someone who could get the job done and that in telling his supporters throughout the campaign, there would be so much winning that they would get sick of winning. This is a big loss and it shows some difficulties with his deal making.

The White House has said the President was all in. This was personal for him. He spent a good deal of time trying to cajole members of Congress. But members of Congress are revealing some interesting details. One of them is that the President didn't offer much of a rationale to them for why they should vote yes on this bill, on this repeal bill. Instead, just focusing on the politics, asking them to help deliver them a win. A win in his first 100 days.

Another very important point that many members are bringing up is that the President did not have much to do with the nitty-gritty details of the bill. He didn't seem aware of them. He wasn't able to answer questions about specific policy measures included in this bill.

Some reporting by my colleagues, Dana Bash and Jim Acosta. Dana Bash spoke with sources who said in a meeting with the House freedom caucus meeting, a meeting with the House freedom caucus on Thursday night, those are the conservatives who stood in the way of this bill. One of the members wanted to talk about some of these policy details and the President said, forget about the little stuff. He did not say "stuff." he used a four-letter word, starting with "s," but you get the point there.

Another person says that he, a GOP congressional aide said that the President just didn't care or particularly know about health care. This is according to reporting by my colleague, Jim Acosta. That aide said, if you're going to be the great negotiator, you have to know about the subject matter.

Also, in a meeting with the Tuesday group, that's yet another group of House Republicans, these are moderate Republicans, one of those congressmen, Charlie Dent told the President he was a "no" at that moment in time on the bill and the President replied, why am I even talking to you?

So it does seem that the President's approach on some of this may have alienated the very members he needed to get onboard to score this big win for his young presidency - Ana.

CABRERA: Really interesting to hear about the behind-the-scenes conversations happening leading up to this no vote or non-vote, I should say.

Athena Jones, thank you very much.

Coming up, the President said he learned a lot about loyalty during this health care fiasco. So does that mean he's taking names? Our panel weighs in.


[19:21:54] CABRERA: Back when he was candidate, President Trump argued the problem with Washington, they don't make deals. It's all gridlock. But I will get everybody together. We will all make great deals for the country. He promised over and over and over one of those deals would be repealing and replacing Obamacare. Listen.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Real change begins immediately with the repealing and replacing of the disaster known as Obamacare.

We get rid of Obamacare. It's going to be gone. It's going to be terminated.

Obamacare is a disaster.

Repeal it and replace it.

Repeal and replace.

Repeal and replace.

Obamacare, we are going to repeal it, we are going to replace, we are going to get something better.

Repeal it, replace it, get something great!

We are going to repeal and replace the horror that's known as Obamacare. It is a horror.

I will repeal and replace Obamacare, which is a catastrophe.

We are going to kill it. Let it die! Let I die! And we're going to come up with something much, much better.

You're going to have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost. And it's going to be so easy.


CABRERA: So easy, famous last words. I want to bring in my panel. CNN senior political analyst and former advisor to four presidents David Gergen and Lanhee Chen, former public policy director for Mitt Romney.

David, bottom line, how much does this health care bill impact the rest of the President's agenda?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's going to complicate the rest of the President's agenda and it's going to be, I think, impossible now to get a major legislative victory in the first hundred days. I think you have got his Supreme Court nominee through, Mr. Gorsuch, but he won't get that big victory he has been looking for.

And, you know, both for momentum purposes. And also when you look at the substance of what he must do now, in order to get tax reform, which is next up for him and a big item. The actual substance is going to be much harder to come up with, because there's a push among Republicans to pay for every dollar in tax reductions, to pay for it in other ways. And they thought they were going to have health care to help to get them there. To make it easier to get there. With health care now gone, it's a much steeper climb to get to tax reform.

CABRERA: Lanhee, did he underestimate the challenges of the details of policies?

LANHEE CHEN, FORMER PUBLIC POLICY DIRECTOR FOR MITT ROMNEY: Well, certainly, it's the case that when you move from campaigning to governing, the details matter a lot more when you govern. And it is the case, it seems, at least, in a lot of the reporting that for folks in the freedom caucus who opposed the American health care act, they opposed it primarily on policy reasons. Now, arguably, they moved the goalposts and they made this negotiation a very difficult one for the President. But, clearly, the setting and the context for this negotiation, Ana, were very different from any other negotiation that Donald Trump has ever done in his life. And in that sense, this is going to be very much a new exercise for him going forward, as he tries to negotiate the details on something like tax reform, which is no less complicated than health care.

[19:25:07] CABRERA: More than 50 times since Obamacare became the law of the land, congressional Republicans voted to repeal. Yet, when they finally had the house, the Senate, and the presidency, there was no plan they could agree on. Let's listen to the President speaking from the oval office.


TRUMP: This is something that certainly was an interesting period of time. We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty. We learned a lot about the vote-getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules in, obviously, both the Senate and in the house. So it's been certainly -- for me, it's a very interesting experience.


CABRERA: Kind of interesting, David, that the first thing he says he learned about was loyalty. Is that code for, I'm taking names here and there could be some payback?

GERGEN: It does suggest that. And we do know from various news reports that he wanted to seek revenge. He wanted there to be a vote up-front so people who are against him would be publicly identified, shamed, and there would be retaliation.

Paul Ryan talked him out of that. And so far he has been -- there have been no tweets. We have gone a day, Saturday, without angry tweets. So that -- so he has been calmer about this. But there's been a lot of finger-pointing, within the White House. There's finger-pointing at speaker Ryan. There is finger-pointing at Secretary Price, the President's own health care top adviser. There's finger-pointing at the chief of staff Priebus. They say that Presidents even annoyed at his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, for being gone, out on the slopes of aspen.

CABRERA: He was skiing in Aspen.

GERGEN: You know, in this very tough week. So a lot of finger pointing.

CABRERA: Lanhee, I think the thing most people at home care about perhaps is, what does this mean for health care now? Those who have Obamacare and they don't like it, their premiums are going up. Their deductibles are going up. Should the President and the Republicans be working with Democrats to try to come up with a better health care solution?

CHEN: I think what they certainly should be doing is they need to be working in particular you cited the individual market. You're absolutely right. Going into 2018, we are going to see higher premiums in many market. We are going to see less choice and plans that simply don't suit people's needs. So it's up to Republicans to figure out how they want to deal with this.

The reality is, they're going to get stuck with the political fallout here. Even though Obamacare was not their doing, they have the opportunity to do something about it with this vote, and they didn't. So they are going to have to figure out whether it's through administrative action or, as you say, potentially working with Democrats in the short run, to do something here, because 2018 will not be pretty. It won't be an all at once implosion, but it's going to get worse. Almost like a slow-motion car wreck, Ana. I think that's what we're headed towards in 2018.

CABRERA: Lanhee, why didn't they do a chunk at a time?

CHEN: Well, you know, I think that what it comes down to at the end of the day is that they felt that they had to do repeal and replace all at one. And if they were going to do replace, they had to do an entire package. Maybe at one point, they have said we could sequence it. We could do it piece by piece. That is not the way they went. And unfortunately, I think that decision ended up being very costly.

CABRERA: David, I have got to ask you about something you said -- go ahead. Go ahead.

GERGEN: I just want to go back to this. I think this is a really fundamental decision that the administration has to make. And that is, with no bill in prospect on health care, there's not going to be any major legislation in the next year or two. We know that. But the Trump administration will be administering the Obamacare act, and the way the act is written, it depends upon the active support of the department of health and human services. That's Dr. Price, who's the secretary there. So he's got to make a decision in his administration, is he going to do something to undermine the Obamacare, to make it more difficult to end this thing, to just throw monkey wrenches into it, to change Medicaid rules, for example? To have more people uninsured. There will be some of the things that they were going to do in the legislation or is he going to come around and try to support it? I think it's irresponsible to -- if you're in charge, to walk away from it and have people suffer.

But I do think there's a political calculation here, too, that he' got to make. My hope is that the administration will support it. That he will work with the Democrats. But that decision has not yet been made. They are going to have to be very public about which way they're going here.

CABRERA: That's a really important point that you point out. They have some control over now, over how Obamacare continues to be implemented and where Obamacare goes.

But, David, you said something yesterday that's caught a lot of attention that Trump had the worst first 100 days of any President. And that was something economists, comedians, even former Nixon speechwriter, Ben Stein, who used to work with you, took issue with. I want you to just listen to this earlier.


[19:30:07] BEN STEIN, ECONOMIST, FORMER NIXON SPEECHWRITER: Well, I love Dave. Let me tell you that. He was my boss when I worked for Mr. Nixon. He is a great, super guy and a super smart guy. But Abraham Lincoln had a far worse beginning of his presidency. The 11 southern states seceded. He had to arrest most of the members of the Maryland legislature to keep Maryland from seceding when the chief justice of the Supreme Court threaten, I said we are going to release them on habeas corpus. He threatened to imprison the chief justice of the United States Supreme Court. So he had a million times worse start.


CABRERA: So David, what do you think?

GERGEN: Listen. I think the world of Ben Stein - I love Ben Stein. We have done each other long time and we have had friendly disagreements before.

Listen, he is right. Lincoln had one heck of a hard time getting started. You know, he didn't have generals to fight and other things like that. But you know what, he put us on the winning road right from the beginning. Has President Trump put us on the winning road? I don't think you would call it that.

And you know, you can go back in history, (INAUDIBLE) CNN -- what about William henry Harrison. He got-off o off to an awful start. He was so proud he wouldn't wear his coat in a really cold day on inaugural day riding (INAUDIBLE), caught pneumonia and died. So he had a bad start.

But I think if you look at the presidency in terms of accomplishments and setbacks versus positive things, the President has had some wins and he had that good win on Gorsuch. But the losses are massive.

And not only this -- last week, his credibility got shattered on wiretapping. You know, they have got this investigation underway with a criminal investigation underway regarding some of his aides. We don't know where that's going to go. He lost out on this major legislative hope for the first hundred days, for the first few months of his time in office. You can go down that list.

And I would have to say, I think, so far, what we are watching is the worst hundred days, certainly, in modern times. But I think you can make the argument, ben, even about Lincoln.

CABRERA: All right. Well, it's not over yet. We are like 65 days in now.

David Gergen and Lanhee Chen, our thanks to both of you tonight.

GERGEN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Coming up, President Trump defends his wildest and baseless claims saying quote "I'm President and you're not." Well, that part is true. His new interview with "Time" magazine and what it could reveal about his thinking. Stay with us.


[19:36:34] CABRERA: I'm President and you're not, so says President Trump in a brand-new interview with "Time" magazine in which he defends a number of debunked claims from wiretapping to widespread voter fraud and he also offers a few new untruths.

CNN's senior Washington correspondent Brianna Keilar reports.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Ana, President Trump unveiling a string of untruths as he talked about how he handles the truth in an interview with "Time" magazine.


KEILAR (voice-over): Let's start with President Trump's explanation of his recent claims that President Obama wiretapped him before he entered the White House. That claim that is unfounded and unsupported by almost all Democrats and Republicans.

Now, remember this Trump said, when I said wiretapping it was in quotes because wiretapping today you know it is different than wiretapping. It is just a good description. But wiretapping was in quotes. What I'm talking about is surveillance.

SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: If you look at the President's tweet said clearly quote "wiretapping," in quotes.

KEILAR: Well, not exactly. Wiretapping was in quote in this tweet. But look at this one, it is not in quotes. And on surveillance Trump pointed to these comments from Devin Nunes, the Republican chair of the House intelligence committee.

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I recently confirmed that on numerous occasions, the intelligence community incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition. None of this surveillance was related to Russia or the investigation of Russian activities or of the Trump team.

KEILAR: That communication seemingly picked up by agencies legally looking at foreign targets. Nunes' evidence remains secret. Even members of his own committee have yet to see it and he shoots down Trump's original claim.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Just to be clear, there is no evidence that President Trump was wiretapped?

NUNES: That is correct. That is correct.

KEILAR: On Trump's false campaign claim that Senator Ted Cruz's father was somehow connected to President Kennedy's assassin, Trump told time, that was in the newspaper. I wasn't. I didn't say that. The newspaper Trump refers to, the "National Enquirer." That's right, the supermarket tabloid.

And on Trump's the untrue assertion that millions of people voted fraudulently explaining why he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by about three million ballots he said mostly they register wrong. In other words for the votes, they register incorrect and/or illegally and they then vote. You have tremendous numbers of people. In fact, I'm forming a committee on it. It will be interesting to see if that committee includes the folks who oversee voting practices. Secretaries of state, many of whom are Republicans.

JOHN HUSTED (R), OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: As I say about voter fraud, it exists, it's rare.

KEILAR: Or maybe Republican Senators?

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R), OKLAHOMA: I'm not seeing in voter irregularity in the millions. There is always some on the edges. But I have not seeing anything on the millions. I don't know what he was talking about.

KEILAR: Maybe not.


KEILAR: President Trump also talked about how he was right that he would win on election night, even though he has said he thought he would lose. And he stuck with his false claim that Muslims celebrated on 9/11 in New Jersey. At the end of the interview, he essentially dropped the mic. Hey, look, in the meantime, I guess, I can't be doing so badly, he said, because I'm President and you're not. Fact check, true, Ana.

CABRERA: Indeed. And he did drop the mike with that comment.

Thanks, Brianna.

Joining me now, CNN political commentator and conservative contributor at "the Hill," Kayleigh McEnany and Dean Obedallah, a "Daily Beast" contributor and host of the "Dean Obedallah show" on Sirius XM radio. OK, Kayleigh. As Brianna mentioned, (INAUDIBLE), doesn't it? I can't

be doing so badly because I'm president and you are not. In his mind, do you think that means he can do no wrong?

[19:40:18] KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think it means, you know, he is doing pretty well. You know, we have seen these headlines, the worst hundred days ever, which I would argue with me vehemently saying this is one of the best hundred days I have seen as a conservative. So I think he is making the point look, everyone is saying I had a bad hundred days. Everyone, the media is, you know, being naysayers or negative towards the things that I have said or done. But I'm President. The American people obviously like what I put forward, because I'm President of the United States, and I think that's what he's getting at.

CABRERA: Dean, your reaction?

DEAN OBEDALLAH, CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY BEAST: I don't think it's going well very him at all. Objectively speaking, it's probably the worst week of his presidency. On Monday, you have James Comey, FBI director testifies under oath. We are doing an investigation, potential connections between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence agencies and hacking. We don't have evidence of that yet, but we are investigating. Approval ratings at all-time lows this week. And then Friday, Trumpcare doesn't even go to a vote, because Donald Trump can't get Republicans enough to vote for him.

Usually, in Donald Trump's defense, he had file for bankruptcy at this point, but he can't do that in this scenario. He had got to live with this. And I understand from your point of view as a conservative, I can see what he is doing that conservatives would like. But approval ratings even with independents, he is not doing well there. And at some point President Trump has to espouse views that are beyond the conservative base that really bring other people in.

CABRERA: And the bottom line is, what Dean just laid out are facts about what happened this week. You made a comment that you think he has had the best 100 days. How do you see it that way?

MCENANY: I look, you know, I see jobs that are being created. Lots of Fortune 500 companies are moving jobs back here. They have announced tens of thousands of jobs, carrier, et cetera, et cetera, we can go on and on. Keystone pipeline being built, a huge investment in our economy. Consumer confidence is up. The stock market is up. The economy is coming back which I think is really important.

But to Dean's point, I would argue with you that he is not being just strictly conservative. He is actually being very moderate. And that's why his health care bill didn't pass because it was a perfect balance between the left and the right, which meant it was unpalatable to the left and unpalatable to the far-right, but it's what the American people needed. So I think this was a minor defeat, a minor blip in a long line of what was eventually going to get us to the right solution for the American people.

OBEDALLAH: We can only hope that they do find something. I mean, the American people want health care. I think we need a health care revolution, frankly. I think we have to go beyond even what is known as Obamacare and talk about, you know, a public option, a federal insurance company, providing coverage for people, or even going to Medicaid for all, the idea of single-payer. I think we have to get that discussion. But we're not there yet.

But Donald Trump, I don't think he could be doing any worse objectively and I'm being honest with you. If he doesn't think this is going badly, I'm afraid of what bad is. Because this can't be winning. I know Donald Trump talks about winning all the time. This was a horrible week for him, and it's going week-in, week-out for him. The travel ban being struck down a second time. I don't know what's going on with the wall of Mexico. That's seems to have stalled.

MCENANY: And also upheld by a federal judge, too, a different federal judge. But this is where I think there is a disconnect between the way people vote and the things that are sometimes sad. Because the American people, they are not sitting here so concerned about wiretapping claims, you know, was it correct? Was he being surveilled?

CABRERA: That's because the wiretapping claims were not true. But that goes back to the whole point of this segment, which is about telling the truth. And President Trump in the past has called out other people for lying. Let's listen.


TRUMP: Hillary Clinton and, as you know, she -- most people know, she is a world class liar.

When the media lies to people, I will never, ever let them get away with it.

They are corrupt. They lie and fabricate stories --

Lying Ted Cruz. The bible held high. Bible -- you ever see a guy lie like this guy?


CABRERA: The President sounds like he is putting so much importance on telling the truth, and that lying is so, so bad, Kayleigh. But even in that "Time" interview, he had a number of untruths. He -- that were falsehoods. How do you square that?

MCENANY: Look, I don't think the President lies. And I don't like when anyone uses the term "lie" to describe someone else's statement because that means that you have discerned what's inside of them and that they are intentionally trying to mislead. And no one -- I don't think the President has lied. I know that's a popular narrative to put forward, but I don't think so. And I believe --

CABRERA: But when you say things that aren't true, that the facts show otherwise, how is that not a lie? MCENANY: Look, I don't think he has said anything that wasn't true.

So let's take the wiretapping claim, for instance. I agree that his tweet was a little too pointed at President Obama, but increasingly, we are seeing some of what he saying corroborated. That when surveilling foreign agents they stumbled on Trump associates and instead of minimizing the procedures, minimizing their names, covering up their names, they proceeded and transcribed those conversations and disseminated them around government. That is a lot like wiretapping.

[19:45:01] CABRERA: But Kayleigh, President Trump said that President Obama wiretapped him. That is not true, by all of the evidence that's out there.

MCENANY: Well, if it's the Obama administration that uncovered people's names in violation of the law that actually adds a lot of truth to what the President said.

OBEDALLAH: He called President Obama in that tweet "sick or bad." I mean, he went right after President Obama. At this point, I mean, "the Wall Street Journal," not a liberal publication, this week said if President Obama continues to have these problems with the truth, he will be known as a fake President.

I think -- and I am very anti-Trump, but as an American, I want to see my President doing a better job. I think telling us the truth is important. At this point, I almost assume anything he says is not true until proven otherwise. And I'm not the only one on that side. We want a President who tells the truth. We want a President who after Trumpcare fails not lash out at Democrats, but take responsibility like Paul Ryan.


OBEDALLAH: I think lying or not, you are right, we don't know his intent, but I think at the same time, we are sugarcoating it. And maybe people on the right say, President Trump, stop, you're lying --

MCENANY: But there's a complete double standard.

CABRERA: But the perception is that he's not honest. The new poll from Quinnipiac came out 60 percent of voter say President Trump is not honest. Why should people believe what he is saying?

MCENANY: And that's a public perception issue that I think is engendered in large part by the left. I don't understand why the left can come on and say over and over again there's collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia and no one calls these Democratic congressmen liars for suggesting that.

Adam Schiff laid out all of this evidence that did not prove at all there was any sort of collusion, but yet, you know, we are not going to call him a liar or that narrative a liar, but everyone wants to jump on President Trump and saying, wiretapping is not a lie and we have more evidence of the wiretapping, by the way, than of collusion.

OBEDALLAH: (INAUDIBLE). He said again in this interview with "Time" that on 9/11 thousands of Muslims cheered in New Jersey, right. Even Rudy Giuliani, his good friend, said that was not true. But to continue now, to say this just this week, when you have to know it's not true. Either Donald Trump will never change his view on anything or he doesn't care about the facts. He is a (INAUDIBLE) president. That is not good for America. I'm being honest. We disagree but I want a President I can trust, even if I disagree with horribly. I want to be able to trust what they are saying.

MCENANY: There were a lot of Republicans saying that about President Obama. We want a President we can trust, not someone who uses the IRS to, you know, basically scrutinize tea party groups, not someone who changed the talking points in Benghazi. Republicans were saying the same thing about President Obama.

CABRERA: All right. You guys are both coming back a little bit later. So thank you both for your thoughts. We appreciate it. Good to have you on.

And coming up, the Trump travel ban putting our neighbors to the north on edge, while the largest school district in Canada is now ceasing all field trips to the U.S.

Plus, cut it out. Diplomats being told, no more cardboard cutouts of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. The story behind it, next.


[19:51:51] CABRERA: Uncertainty over President Trump's travel ban has Canada's largest school system in Toronto taking drastic measures. Until further notice, all future trips to the U.S. are halted for students and staff.

Let's bring in CNN correspondent, Paula Newton, who is joining me now.

Paula, this ban involves people from Syria, Iran, Somalia, Libya, Yemen and Sudan. Those are the six countries. We know it's tied up in courts right now, so why the concern from those traveling from Canada?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. It's not even in effect. What's been happening, though, is there has been a lot of nervousness from people born in different countries, even though they have a Canadian passport. Anecdotally, they are hearing that people are having a hard time at the borders. The Toronto school board representing a quarter of a million students said, OK, even though these trips have been going on for decades, we don't want a student or staff member left behind.

And if you want to look at the comment from John Malloy. He is at the Toronto district school board. He said, look, we did not make this decision lightly, but given the uncertainty of these new travel restrictions and when they came into effect, if at all, we strongly believe that our students should not be placed into these situations of potentially being turned away at the border.

I mean, Ana, you and I as parents can really relate to the kind of chaos that would happen. They just wanted to avoid that whole situation. And again, anecdotally, what you have been hearing from the border is people turned away for apparently no reason.

Now, homeland security secretary general Kelly was here in Canada the other week saying, look, it's not because of your race or your religion or your language, if we have stopped you, it's because we have concerns. That comes as cold, comfort, though to organizations like a few school boards who take in some place and also the Girl Guides, the equivalent of American girl scouts, they have also canceled all field trips to the United States.

CABRERA: Interesting, I know your own son is scheduled to go on a school trip to Washington right now because this decision doesn't necessarily apply to trips that were previously approved or scheduled. So how much anxiety has there been among parents?

NEWTON: You know, there's a lot. I can tell you just what I got on my email from parents, and they are really scared. I mean, some of us are kind of thinking that maybe it would be nice if some parents even tagged along at the border in case somebody gets left behind. The teachers and the administration trying to reassure everyone. But I know that these are conversations going on right across Canada.

And what's really interesting, too, Ana, is that the sporting events. Some kids really want to go to the United States to compete in sporting events with, and they are not being allowed to.

CABRERA: Before I let you go, I want to ask you about this rather bizarre story, Canadian diplomats in the U.S. told to stop bringing cardboard cutouts of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to embassy events. So what's the story there?

NEWTON: Bizarre stories, inviting Justin Trudeau, cardboard cutouts, what are you talking about? This is happening and apparently these things are available on amazon. I have not tried to order one myself. I mean, look, global affairs Canada, the equivalent of the state department thought, look, our prime minister is very popular. These would be great. People have been taking selfies and posting them online. I mean, people in the government thought, OK, wait a minute, this may not be prime ministerial. They said, look, to use a term, cut it out. No more using these cardboard cutouts of our prime minister. You know, I have my suspicions that it's also because of costs, but that's my own suspicion. I can't prove that.

[19:55:12] CABRERA: You see the risk with what people can then do with these cutouts and then post them in different places. There could be an image that sure coming on.

Paula Newton, thanks very much for your time.

Coming up, powering down. No laptop, ipads, or other gadget allowed on certain flights into the U.S. The details on a new electronics ban now in effect.


[19:59:45] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CABRERA: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being with us.

We begin with breaking news. Right now, the U.S. military is looking at some very serious allegations that American warplanes on missions to destroy ISIS in Iraq dropped bombs that may have killed hundreds of civilian people in the northern city of Mosul. That charge comes from a local official on the ground in Iraq. We know U.S. central command has confirmed that airstrikes did happen in this area that they are now --