Return to Transcripts main page

NEWS STREAM

British Goverment Wants Back Door for Encrypted Messaging Apps; Umbrella Movement Protest Leaders Arrested; Carrie Lam Becomes Hong Kong's First Female Leader. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired March 27, 2017 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:16] KRISTIE LU STOUT, HOST: I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. And welcome to News Stream.

Now, Hong Kong's next leader promises to unite this city, but a day after Carrie Lam's selection, Umbrella revolution protesters say they are facing

fresh criminal charges.

Iraq says dozens of civilians were killed after a coalition airstrike in Mosul. The U.S. says it's investigating. And the British home secretary

says authorities should have access to encrypted messaging services like WhatsApp, reopening the debate between technology companies over privacy.

And we begin with the political tension right here in Hong Kong just a day after Carrie Lam was chosen as Hong Kong's new leader.

Now, several protesters who participated in 2014 Umbrella Movement tell CNN they are now

facing criminal charges. It has been more than two years since the demonstrations, but Hong Kong remembers how hundreds of thousands of people

gathered in the streets to demand the right to democratically elect their leader.

The protests shut down some areas for 79 days.

And now the theme of universal suffrage has come up again with an election committee selecting Hong Kong's new chief executive. Now, one of the

protest leaders accuses outgoing executive CY Leung of trying to clean house before Carrie Lam is sworn in.

Now, CNN Senior international correspondent Ivan Watson is outside police headquarters in

Hong Kong. He joins us now live.

And Ivan, why did Hong Kong authorities wait so long and one day after Carrie Lam was selected as the leader to charge these Umbrella Movement

protesters?

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Department of Justice here says that this summons to at least nine of the activist

protest leaders was issued after reviewing hundreds of hours of testimony and hundreds of arrests and after hundreds of arrests and a great deal of

research dating back to the 2014 Umbrella movement protests. And that this natural process is then moved forward again in the words of the Department

of Justice that this is an apolitical process, that it is impartial as well.

They went on to say, quote, one should not speculate on the timing of the prosecution.

Now, let me set the scene where we are. We're in front of the police headquarters. Here you have the escalator that some of the suspects just

went up moments ago, and you still have a crowd of scores of supporters, demonstrators as well as journalists who were here as the suspects made

their statement to the media before going to face prosecution, to face

potentially criminal charges.

They have raised the timing of this, saying that it is not a coincidence, that the summons for arrests were issued a day after, just 24 hours after

Hong Kong conducted its election, an election that has been roundly criticized, squarely criticized by the same protest and opposition

movements for not providing universal suffrage, for basically having a committee of just under 1,200 people electing the top official in this city.

And for years these demonstrators have been demanding one person, one vote in this city. That's a right that has not been given to the people of Hong

Kong, neither by local authorities nor by central government in Beijing - Kristie.

LU SOTUT: And so we had this small circle committee that selected Carrie Lam. She, as Hong Kong's new leader, will take office July 1. What more

do we know about her. And are the charges announced today a sign of tougher policies to come under her leadership?

WATSON: Well, Carrie Lam is not a dramatic change aside from the historic fact that she will be the first woman to hold the top job here in Hong

Kong, but she was number two official in the outgoing administration. She was very much in the administration and actually conducted meetings with

the protesters during those tense days of the Occupy movement in 2014.

In her victory speech on Sunday, she made notes of the divisions, political divisions in this country, saying that her top priority would be to bridge

those divisions and to unify society.

Well, one of the lawmakers who just spoke here, her name was Tonya Chan, and she's gone up right now to face charges. She said she believes that

Carrie Lam wants to unite the city, but she was very disappointed by the fact these arrest warrants were issued today.

Whether or not this was a coincidence or not, it certainly sends a strong signal to the

opposition in the city that the authorities here are basically cracking down. And that's perhaps not going to be a move that's very popular with

the opposition here.

And one thing to note, Kristie, since those protest movements in 2014, some of the demonstrators have been radicalized. Instead of just calling for

universal suffrage, some are them are calling for independence completely from Mainland China, calling themselves localists. This is one of the

challenges that the new top leader, Carrie Lam, will face if she's going to try to unite this city during her term in the upcoming months and years -

Kristie.

LU STOUT: Absolutely. The localist a small but vocal and growing movement in Hong Kong. Ivan Watson reporting outside live from police headquarters

in Hong Kong. Thank you for that, Ivan.

Now, earlier. we spoke with the former U.S. ambassador to China to get his take on the state of affairs in Hong Kong.

(BEGIN VIEOTAPE)

MAX BAUCUS, FRM. U.S. ABMASSADOR TO CHINA: Well, this is a very difficult period. I've been a student of Hong Kong for a some time. I first visited

Hong Kong in the '80s. I got to know Chris Patton (ph) governor over here. And then watched the hand over and new, other officials. And it's tough

with this, one country, two systems arrangement.

And it's my only counsel is just keep cool, keep calm and just keep working for what you think is right. And it's going to be a difficult time.

However, I just hope people realize stability is important for the economy here and just make the best of it.

LU STOUT: And it will be a difficult time, a challenging time for Carrie Lam.

BAUCUS: It will.

LU SOTUT: The new incoming chief executive. You know, she has also promised to bring unity to a divided society, but you know, she may have

had the backing of the establishment in Hong Kong and Beijing, but she didn't win popular opinion polls. So, can she bring people together when

she doesn't have public...

BAUCUS: Well, it's going to be tough. Her predecessor chief executive had a hard time in that respect. I talked to a fellow last night at the

airport, drove me into town, and I said who do you favor? And he said I'm a John Tsang man. And it's - but you know, Carrie is the person, and she

has got to really work hard. She has to listen to people.

She has to go out and listen, listen, listen to lots of different people in Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LU STOUT: And stay with us, we will hear much more from Max Baucus in just a few minutes from now. We will hear his take on the future of U.S./China

relations under President Trump. And I should note that parts of my interview with Ivan Watson were blacked out in Mainland China.

Now, turning now to Iraq. And the U.S. military is investigating whether civilians were killed in a coalition airstrike in Mosul. A senior Iraqi

health official says 112 bodies have been pulled from rubble at the site in the last three days.

U.S.-led forces acknowledge carrying out an airstrike against ISIS in that area earlier this month, but U.S. officials stopped short of confirming an

Iraqi military officer's account that civilians were among those killed.

For more, Arwa Damon is near Mosul. She joins us now. And Arwa, this brutal incident is still shrouded in confusion, but what have you been able

to confirm?

ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is still under investigation by both U.S. and Iraqi officials, but according to the local

counter-terrorism unit commander, whose forces were in that area, he said that in one of these particular incidents that is under investigation his

forces have called in an airstrike against an ISIS suicide truck bomber when that airstrike was carried out against the suicide truck bomb, it then

caused a number of homes to collapse.

The problem, of course, is the vast majority of the homes in western Mosul, which you can see behind us. right now, you see that smoke rising, too,

the vast majority of those homes do have civilians in them.

And it's not just one family necessarily, oftentimes a number of families will come together to try to seek shelter in what they believe would quite

possibly be the sturdiest building. And according to an eyewitness in this particular neighborhood that is exactly what happened in one of these

homes.

There were six families that were sheltering there. There have been so far as you mentione, 112 bodies pulled out of the rubble over the last few

days, but it's becoming even more difficult to get to some of the bodies that are underneath the rubble.

The head of the civil defense teams, for example, told us that today they were only able to

pull six bodies out. It's a very slow process. And of course, this is an ongoing battle. And even if these civilians were able to leave, and if the

Iraqi government did try to encourage the population to stay to a certain degree, but even if they did choose to leave, there's also the

reality that ISIS does not allow them to do so. ISIS has been holding this population as human shields.

We were just talking to a group of women that were walking out from one of the neighborhoods around here that has already been liberated. And one of

these women told us, Kristie, that ISIS not only took her and her family as human shields, they were actually moving them around from neighborhood to

neighborhood in one particular instance using underground tunnels.

So, that's what's happening in this backdrop behind us as this battle continues to unfold and is very, very intense to say the least.

[08:10:41] LU STOUT: Yeah, a terrible account of ISIS's brutal tactics. And Arwa, unfortunately this is something you and viewers of your reporting

knows all too well, there's nothing knew about Iraqi civilians dying in U.S. airstrikes, but what does this latest incident still under

investigation, what does it mean for the ongoing fight against ISIS?

DAMON: Well, the Iraqis are saying that they are going to begin revising their tactics and changing the moving forward, trying to use less

airstrikes, more artillery, more precision artillery, more drones are going to be trying to move forward on foot and deploy sniper

teams.

Now, one also needs to note that the U.S.-led coalition launches these airstrikes at the request

of the Iraqis and then it goes up through a chain of command and an approval process.

But this does ultimately complicate the task that lies ahead for the U.S.- led coalition and for the Iraqi security forces and for the Iraqi government, because they cannot afford these kinds of civilian casualties.

These play directly into the ISIS narrative that the coalition, that the government is against them. It also makes the people feel understandably

as if their lives are not that significant, that they are not being taken into consideration when these types of airstrikes are being carried out.

And then, of course, you just have the sheer and utter tragedy of all of this. The families that have lost loved ones, the families that are

currently cowering in fear in these neighborhoods that are as we speak under attack, the families that don't know how to keep themselves

or their loved ones safe.

At the end of the day, it's not just about liberating Mosul from ISIS, it's also just as much about how much it's going to cost the civilian

population, given that this is also a population that still needs to be convinced that the predominantly Shia-led government is on its side,

Kristie.

LU STOUT: Arwa Damon reporting live from near Mosul, Iraq. Thank you, Arwa.

Now, a prominent Russian opposition leader has just appeared in court after he was detained

along with hundreds of other protesters.

The U.S. State Department has condemned the detentions. Russian state media report 8,000 people attended an anti-corruption protest in the heart

of Moscow on Sunday.

Now, CNN's Fred Pleitgen was at the protest in Moscow. He joins us now live. And Fred, Alexei Navalny, he is the key opposition figure at the

center of all this has. He has appeared in court already today. What happened and what will happen next?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: yeah, it seems to have been quite a strange court appearance that took place earlier today.

Now, Alexei Navalny, as you said, he was taken into detention yesterday as those protests were going on, which really drew a lot more people than

anybody would have thought. Certainly, we were quite surprised that around - I would also say around 8,000 people showed up to those protests.

Now, he was taken into detention then and he had his first court appearance earlier this morning at that court in central Moscow where he was found

guilty of inciting any legal mass gathering. And he was fined 20,000 rubles. Now, that's about 350 dollars.

And with that, everybody thought that he might be free to go home.

But then it appears as though that was not the case, at least according to his lawyer who says that then a second charge was brought forward of

apparently resisting arrest and that that is still going on.

From the latest that we're hearing we had live pictures before from the courthouse. They are in a recession and a break in a - in a recess, I

would say, in a break at the moment, but we do expect those proceedings to continue later today.

Now, it could be the case that he might face some jail-time. There's talk of about 15 days possibly more if he gets convicted of a second

administrative offense - Kristie.

LU STOUT: Now, what happened on Sunday? And you were there to witness it. These were massive unsanctioned anti-corruption protests that took place

not just in Moscow, but all over Russia. Fred, do you think these protests signal the start of a larger movement?

PLEITGEN: Well, I think it's probably too early to say that they might be part of larger movement. And we have to keep in mind here in Moscow there

were about 8,000 people who took to the streets.

And you're right, I mean, that is a very, very large number. And certainly it was also hampered by the efforts of the authorities to try and keep

those protests small and try and stop them all together.

Certainly when people arrive to those protests, many of the protest leaders were immediately

taken into detention by a massive police force that was on scene. And then the same theme continued where many, many people were taken into custody.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the authorities were aggressive. Certainly the police that we dealt with didn't seem to be overly aggressive, however,

the detentions were something that were certainly - that stood out, the amount of detentions and people being taken into custody that we saw at

those rallies.

Now, we have to keep in mind, however, that to Vladimir Putin still has approval ratings of about 80 percent here in this country. And so

certainly 8,000 people turning up here in Moscow and then also around the country, that is quite significant that in so many places there were

protests as well. However, the vast majority of Russians still do seem to be very much behind Vladimir Putin.

However, the issue of these protests, of corruption by the elites in this country, whether they are in the government or outside of the government,

that certainly is something that does seem to be a mobilizing factor for many people here in Russia.

[08:16:07] LU STOUT: Fred Pleitgen reporting on the largest, most widespread protest against

Vladimir Putin in years. Thank you for, Fred.

Now, still ahead right here on the program, the Republican blame game. Mixed messages from Capitol Hill as the U.S. president suffers a major

policy collapse. We'll discuss how the Trump administration is resetting its agenda.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LU STOUT: Coming to you live from Hong Kong, welcome back. You're watching News

Stream. Now, U.S. President Donald Trump is trying it turn the corner and kick-start momentum after what could be viewed as the worst week of his

presidency.

Now, Mr. Trump tasting failure after his push to reveal Obamacare stalled, the president is now blaming hard line conservatives after initially

pointing a finger at Democrats. And on top of this, reports are emerging of bitter infighting among his top aides.

Now, the White House is now trying to regroup and reset. So, what is next on the president's

agenda?

Sara Murray joins us now live from the White House. Sara, after GOP failed in its quest to reveal Obamacare,what happens now?

SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a White House that desperately needed a win last week and certainly did not get one.

They are trying to move on now this week, trying to prove they can get something done. And they say that tax reform is the place to start for

that.

But it may not be as simple as they are hoping.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): The White House desperate to move forward after a bruising defeat on health care.

REINCE PRIEBUS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We're moving on the tax reform. We've got the budget coming up.

MURRAY: The Trump administration turning its focus to the next battle: cutting taxes, which could prove even more challenging. That after failing

to deliver on the president's promise to repeal and replace Obamacare, despite Republicans having control of the House and Senate.

SCHUMER: If you analyze what went wrong with ACA, if he repeats them in tax reform, they'll get nowhere.

[08:20:05] MURRAY: This as the finger-pointing intensifies.

MICK MULVANEY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: I think there's probably plenty of blame to go around. I think what happened is that

Washington won.

STEPHEN MILLER, DONALD TRUMP POLICY ADVISOR: I think the House moved a bit too fast. Eighteen days is simply not enough time for such major landmark

legislation.

MURRAY: President Trump shifting the blame from Democrats to the conservatives who who stood in the way of the bill, tweeting they "saved

Planned Parenthood and Obamacare" as his chief of staff, Reince Priebus, is leaving the door open to bipartisan compromise.

PRIEBUS: If Democrats come on board with a plan down the road, we'll welcome that.

KASICH: They've got to reach out across the aisle, and Democrats have to say, "We will work with you to improve and fix this plan for people."

MURRAY: Meanwhile, a longtime member of the House Freedom Caucus, Ted Poe, is resigning from the group over its role in defeating the bill. Poe

writing in a statement, "Saying no is easy. Leading is hard."

House Speaker Paul Ryan also under scrutiny in the wake of the health care defeat. President Trump tweeting to his supporters to watch a specific FOX

News program which began like this.

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: Paul Ryan needs to step down as speaker of the House.

MURRAY: The White House is insisting that Trump didn't know the FOX host would make these comments and that the commander in chief is standing by

the speaker.

PRIEBUS: He doesn't blame Paul Ryan. In fact, he thought Paul Ryan worked really hard.

MURRAY: Republicans also gearing up for another fight: over Supreme Court pick Neil Gorsuch, with Democrats vowing to filibuster his nomination.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: I applaud the Republicans obeying the rules that currently exist and not changing those rules. And the rules

right now, for good reasons, are 60 votes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, one thing is clear, last week's health care failure has certainly ratcheted up

tensions in the White House. We know that there is more tension between some of the advisers, stuff that was put on the back burner while they were

focused on this health care push. And a number of people close to President Trump say that it's hard to imagine that that failure is not

going to strain the relationship between the House speaker and between the president regardless of what they may be saying publicly.

Back to you.

LU STOUT: Yeah, fallout after defeat. Sara Murray reporting live from the White House, thank you.

Earlier we heard from the former U.S. Ambassador to China Max Baucus. Now, on the second part of our interview, I got his perspective on how Donald

Trump is leaving his mark on U.S.-China relations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BAUCUS: The U.S. messaging has been very mixed. They're tough (inaudible), then questioning the One China policy, 45 percent tariff,

talking about currency manipulation. Of course South China Sea issues have popped up a bit, too.

I think the administration is starting to settle down a little bit, although it's a bit mixed with respsect to North Korea and then Tillerson

was in Beijing. My judgment is a lot of this comes down to Mar-a-Lago. And President Trump is going to have to show strength. He's

going to have to show these on top of all this. It can't be erratic, it can't a Twitter summit, it's got to be a very substantive, solid summit.

He's a bit wounded right now with the failure of the travel ban effort and now health care repeal and replace fallen off. And he's got to show

strength. The Chinese, if anything, respect strength. They respect the United States as a strong and very present in the region. And he has to

demonstrate that.

LU SOTUT: And there are so many issues on the table. Let's go through a couple them one by

one. I mean, first of all, we can talk about trade. The TPP has been scrapped, also protectionist policies inside China continue, just for

example, Pinterest, the American social media site that focuses on sharing recipes is now banned in China.

Is this going to go on?

BAUCUS: Well, it depends on two factors. The major factor is U.S. leadership. If the United States shows the right kind of leadership,

because countries around the world still look to the United States for leadership, China is going to recognize that. And China is

going to have to deal with it.

On the other hand, China may want to go off in its own direction. And so a lot of this is up to China itself, too. And with the Great Wall, fans, for

example, as you mentioned, and American companies having a hard time getting access and also economic subsidies in China. China doing what it

should with respect to North Korea.

It all comes down to good faith. We have to do the best we can as Americans, but but in my judgment it's projecting American strength. We've

got to be there. And it's American credibility.

Donald Trump is wounded now. He's kind of here or there. He's got to settle down and show

strong principles and be what an American president should be and that's the leader of many countries.

LU STOUT: Is American strength needed when it comes to the issue of the South China Sea? Because China continues to build up islands and you may

introduce military deployments there undeterred.

BAUCUS: Well, I think our major effort in the South China Sea frankly is something that's been scuttled, that's this Trans-Pacific Partnership.

It's clear to me if we had stuck with the Trans-Pacific Partnership, we have showed terrific geopolitical presence in southeast Asia. And our

withdrawal now creates a vacuum which China is filling.

You know, Trans-Pacific Partnership is a good economic complement to military planning in the South China Sea. And now with it gone, it's

harder for the United States to get basing rights for overlflight approvals and so forth, because China in the meantime, with Americna withdrawal, is

putting more pressure on Southeast Asian countries, political and economic pressure.

The biggest mistake in my three years as ambassador to China was the United States failure to pass TPP.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:25:55] LU STOUT: And that was the former U.S. ambassador to China Max Baucus speaking to me earlier.

Now turning now to South Korea. Prosecutors are seeking an arrest warrant for Park Geun-hye who was ousted as president two weeks ago. Last week,

she's underwent 14 hours of questioning. She's being investigated in a corruption scandal that has shaken South Korean politics for months.

Paula Hancocks has the latest from Seoul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Prosecutors clearly believe they do have enough evidence for the former South Korean president to be arrested. Seeking an arrest warrant for Park Geun-hye, prosecutors

say that they do fear there's a possibility that Park Geun-hye could actually try and destroy evidence.

They also say that they have concluded her violations are grave and they point out that some of the other people who are involved in this corruption

scandal have been arrested while awaiting trial so it's only fair that they try and seek the same treatment for Park.

Now, remember back on March 10 Park lost her presidential immunity when the constitutional court upheld lawmakers' impeachment of Park Guen-hye.

So, Park, herself denies all wrongdoing. W know that her lawyer has also said that he believes this is just a politically charged witch hunt.

But looking at the timeframe for this week, on Thursday there will be a hearing for this arrest warrant. What we do expect is Park and her lawyer

should come to talk to the judge and try and convince him why she should not be arrested.

At the same time, prosecutors will have to convince that same judge why she should be arrested.

Now, prosecutors want to charge Park with bribery, among other crimes. And we know that in this country bribery alone can carry a minimum sentence of

10 years if you're talking about tens of millions of dollars.

Now, emotions have been running extremely high in this country. During this corruption scandal, hundreds of thousands of people have come out to

the streets around the country calling for Park's impeachment and imprisonment. There has also been a pro-Park contingent. It is smaller,

but it is no less vocal calling for Park's reinstatement.

So, certainly it is an important week in this country, a very politically bitterly divided country.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LU STOUT: Now, still to come right here on News Stream, a fierce new debate over encryption fueled by last week's attack in London.

Now, the question being asked here, which is more important, personal privacy or national security? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(HEADLINES)

[08:31:52] LU STOUT: The investigation into last week's terror attack in London is reigniting a debate about in encryption.

Police have learned that the attacker used the messaging service WhatsApp just minutes before his rampage.

Now, the app uses end-to-end encryption, meaning messages can only seen by the sender and

the intended recipient, and nobody else.

Now, it's meant to protect user's privacy and security. But the British home secretary says tech companies should cooperate with law enforcement

when there is a terrorist situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBER RUDD, BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: That is my view. It is completely unacceptable. There should be no place for terrorists to hide. We need to

make sure that organizations like WhatsApp, and there are plenty of others like that, don't provide a secret place for terrorists to communicate with

each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LU STOUT: And this is not the first time governments have clashed with tech companies over encryption. last year the FBI went to a U.S.court

hoping to force Apple to help unlock the iPhone of a terrorist. Now, he was one of two shooters who killed more than a dozen people in San

Bernardino, California.

Now, federal agents wanted Apple to create a special version of the iPhone's operating system that would disable some security features, but

Apple argued that that would create a backdoor that could be exploited by hackers and criminals.

And many major tech companies, including Microsoft, Facebook, Google, all expressed support for Apple.

Now, the case dropped when the FBI said that they found a third party to break into the phone for them.

It's important to note that tech companies, including Apple, do often provide information to law

enforcement and that data can include information on who owns a particular phone or account or

even email records.

But as more products gain stronger encryption, tech companies are drawing a line sparking what we have now this intense debate. Now, tech journalist

Charles Arthur joins me live. And Charles, thank you for joining us here.

After the London attack, the British government says that its security services, its police, must

have access to encrypted messaging apps like WhatsApp. Privacy issues aside, do you think it would even be effective? Can it prevent violent

crime?

CHARLES ARTHUR, TECH JOURNALIST: Well, let's go back a few years, if you look at the IRA, which had a bombing campaign against the UK 20 or so years

ago, they were able to -- they didn't have access to encryption apps, they didn't have anything like that, it was a well-known organization. The

people in it were well identified by the organization - the intelligence organizations and yet the IRA was able to plant a bomb, which nearly killed

the prime minister during the party conference. That was back in 1984.

So, clearly back in the days when those amber (inaudible) dreams of it, you could steam open envelopes and tap phone calls, they still weren't able to

stop terrorists.

Now you have a situation where terrorists are operating in not such an obvious structure. And the fact that you can't simply open a browser page

as Amber Rudd seems to want to and identify what terrorists are up to today. That's not a problem to with the advent of encryption. It's simply

because intelligence and finding terrorists is very difficult work, which requires human work.

You can't simply do it by thinking that you can just get at people's computers.

[08:35:00] LU STOUT: Now, in this digital era on the back of what happened in London last week, the British government is asking for a back door

system, a system where there is an encryption for business and other transactions, but police and security can also have access to it.

But can that be done? Is that compatible?

ARTHUR: First of all, it's pretty much impossible. What you're dealing with here is mathematics. And it's about the mathematics of very large

numbers of trying to figure out how a very big number, which separates out into two primes, how those two numbers are multiplied together.

It's very easy to multiply to get two numbers together, very difficult to figure what the numbers are when you're just working with a big number.

That's essentially how encryption works.

And so it's just not possible to do this. And any back door that you build in is a back door which is unavailable to hostile governments, to hostile

hackers, and it's something which basically compromises everyone's safety without actually increasing -- without increasing privacy or, indeed, in

the long run increasing safety.

LU STOUT: So what the British government is asking for goes against the very definition of encryption. And Charles, while we have you, I also

want to get your thoughts on the reaction from tech firms. Will tech titans continue to resist efforts by governments not

just UK, but around the world to allow governments to look into our private communications?

ARTHUR: Well, tech companies - I mean, people like Apple and Google and Microsoft and so on, they do respond to court orders. So for example there

was a case recently in the U.S. where the person who sent a gift on Twitter, which sent someone into an epileptic seizure, was identified

through their iCloud records, which were accessed through a correctly provided court application.

But the problem is with things like WhatsApp, it doesn't go - it's not stored anywhere, WhatsApp doesn't have any access to the messages. It's

the same as if someone was just talking to someone on the street, in effect.

And the difficulty there is that what they don't have, they can't give to the government and

the intelligence agencies. And asking them to do that is effectively making everything less safe.

So the tech companies are going to hold out against it. They don't want to store these conversations because it's just more compromise for them, it's

more danger for them.

And again, with governments, which are not friendly to people who are dissidents and so on, the

difficulty becomes, well, where do you draw the line? How do you find which governments you want to give access and which you don't want to give

access to? And I'm absolutely certain that the tech companies, as they have been doing for years, will continue to resist these

calls from governments.

It tends to be a very sort of knee jerk response from home secretaries. There is a terrorist attack. They say they want to know everything that

there could be about, but it dies down after a while and we tend to find the status quo reverts.

LU STOUT: All right. Charles Arthur, appreciate your insight as always. Thank you and take care.

Now, you're watching News Stream. And still to come on the program, a scary moment for dozens of weekend shoppers when something just went

terribly wrong on an escalator full of people. it happened here in Hong Kong. We've got the details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LU STOUT: Welcome back.

Now, a Tokyo-based company has big ambitions for a tiny organism. A microalgae called euglena is laready being commercially cultivated for

food. And our researchers are tapping its potential as a different type of fuel.

Here is CNN's Will Ripley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[08:40:14] WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When you think about drinks, algae probably isn't your first or second or even third

choice. But Mitsuro Ismo (ph) hopes to change that.

MITSURU IZUMO, EUGLENA FOUNDER: You might have a negative images associated with algae.

RIPLEY: Izumo founded Euglena in 2005 naming his company after a special t ype of microalgae, 2005 because that's the year researchers figured out how

to commercially cultivate euglena for the first time.

Kenso Suzuki has studied this tiny organism for the last 15 years. He says he's still unlocking itssecrets.

KENSO SUZUKI, EUGLENA RESEARCHER (through translator): Euglena is an animal as well as a plant, so it contains lots of nutrition. I wish to reveal and

understand more about euglena and make the world a better place with this research.

RIPLEY: The algae gets turned into a powder for supplements, smoothies, cosmetics, even pet food. The company is currently exploring applications

in pharmaceuticals and biofuels.

Euglena has even partnered with ANA, Air Nippon Airways, to make jet fuel.

IZUMO: Everyone say it's c razy the first time to hear that idea. By 2020, my aim is to commercialize our product.

RIPLEY: By then he, Izumo hopes to have a second refinery and expand capacity by 400 percent. That's crucial to bringing down the cost said to

be 10 times the price of conventional jet fuel, but much better for the environment as this fuel is carbon neutral.

Back in the lab, even bigger dreams to potentially power a trip to Mars. Perhaps one day Euglena could serve as both fuel and food for deep space

travel.

SUZUKI (through translator): If we can cultivate it in space, it can be used to support human lives. It might be far in the future, but I'd want

to do more research on this field as well.

RIPLEY: It remains to be seen just how much Euglena the company can accomplish with the euglena the algae, but they are breaking the mold,

pardon the pun, by breaking risks and trying to make their vision of a greener future come true.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LU STOUT: Interesting stuff.

Now, finally, authorities here in Hong Kong they are ordering a citywide test on long escalators after a terrifying incident at a busy shopping

mall. An upward bound escalator suddenly went into reverse and sped up. Shoppers, as you can see in the video, just went tumbling down. At least

18 people were injured, two mechanics have been arrested, accused of obstruction of justice. Terrifying video there.

And that is News Stream.

END