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Trump: U.S. Could Act Alone on North Korea Threat; Trump to Meet with Chinese Leader; Senate Heads Toward Showdown Over Gorsuch; Can Trump Turn Chaos into Political Victory? Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 3, 2017 - 07:00   ET


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: For our U.S. viewers, NEW DAY continues right now.

[07:00:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump is facing the most critical week of international diplomacy.

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We need to see definitive actions by China condemning North Korea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard not to interpret Donald Trump's statements as a warning.

ASH CARTER, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: If it comes to the necessity to protect ourselves, we've always had all options on the table.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Wherever the Russian evidence takes us, in terms of the Trump campaign, is where it goes.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: I would tell people, whenever they see the president use the word "fake," it ought to set off alarm bells.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: Neil Gorsuch will be confirmed. How that happens depends on our Democratic friends.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Mitch calls it a filibuster. We call it the 60-vote standard.


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

Up first, President Trump facing a critical week of international diplomacy. Mr. Trump raising the stakes for a big meeting with China's president, saying the U.S. is prepared to act alone, if China does not take a tougher stand against North Korea's nuclear ambitions.

CUOMO: The military threat from Pyongyang now clearly at the top of the president's agenda when he hosts China. It comes as President Trump meets today with Egypt's president. Also a key meeting. And later this week, he has Jordan's king in a meeting. All this as a nuclear showdown of a very different kind -- thank God -- heats up in the Senate over the president's Supreme Court nominee.

We're 74 days into the Trump presidency. So let's our coverage with Joe Johns, live at the White House. Good morning, Joe.


President Trump meeting with the leaders of three nations this week as this new administration tries to get off to a good start on the world stage. The first of those meetings occurring to try, essentially, to reboot the relationship with Egypt.

Meanwhile on Capitol Hill, the White House continues to deal with allegations of collusion involving the Russians and the last election.


JOHNS (voice-over): President Trump kicking off a critical week of high-profile diplomatic talks, hosting Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi at the White House today ahead of a sit-down with King Abdullah of Jordan on Wednesday.

On Thursday and Friday, President Trump will host Chinese President XI Jinping for the first time at his Mar-a-Lago resort for arguably the most important diplomatic meetings of the president's tenure thus far.

A key point of contention: North Korea's nuclear ambitions. President Trump offering a vague but head-turning assessment to "The Financial Times," saying he may act unilaterally. Quote, "If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will."

The president tweeting last week that he expects this high-profile meeting with China will be difficult, particularly after all of his tough talk during the campaign.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can't continue to allow China to rape our country, and that's what they're doing.

China is responsible for nearly half of our entire trade deficit.

JOHNS: The president's son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, expected to play a key role in the two days of meetings. Kushner rapidly becoming the president's foreign policy point man.

All of these diplomatic meetings come as the cloud of Russia continues to hang over the Trump administration, the president continuing to stand behind his unfounded wiretapping claim, insisting he does not regret any of his tweets, while attempting to downplay the connections between campaign advisors and Russia as "fake news."

SCHIFF: I would tell people whenever they see the president use the word "fake," it ought to set off alarm bells.

JOHNS: The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee telling CNN he's treating the immunity request from Trump's fired national security advisor, Michael Flynn, with healthy skepticism.

As Senator John McCain calls the request unusual and continues to push for special investigation.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Every time we turn around, another shoe drops from this centipede. If we're really going to get to the bottom of these things, it's got to be done in a bipartisan fashion.


JOHNS: The White House also sending signals that the president will not press very hard on human rights issues with Egypt and China, though he will take a private and discreet approach to some of these issues. A big departure from the way the Obama administration handled it -- Chris.

CUOMO: Big week any way you look at it. Joe, thank you very much.

President Trump vowing to solve the North Korean nuclear threat. And here's the key part: with or without help from China. So how are these comments going to affect the high-stakes meeting with China's president later this week? CNN's Will Ripley has reported extensively from inside North Korea. He joins us now live from Beijing with more.

What do you know, will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I know that so far publicly, Chinese officials do not seem fazed by these comments in "The Financial Times" interview from President Trump or the tweets last week, saying that this meeting was going to be very difficult.

[07:05:08] They actually put out a very politely-worded statement saying that there was a conversation overnight between Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and China's top diplomat. They talked about the importance of this meeting. And it really is, because these are two very powerful world leaders with very different approaches who will be getting together on a golf course of all places, considering that XI Jinping has banned public officials from golfing here in China.

The U.S. thinks that China is really the key to reigning in North Korea. But for a long time, China has argued that the United States needs to engage with the North, that they do not have the economic leverage the U.S. thinks they do.

I can tell you from traveling to North Korea, a number of times and talking with officials there, they say they absolutely will not give up their nuclear program, with or without pressure from China. But if China doesn't cooperate with the U.S., actions are very limited for President Trump. And he could be facing an imminent nuclear test ICBM launch, because all the indicators are, Alisyn, that North Korea is preparing and could push the button on those things at any moment.

CAMEROTA: All right, Will. Thank you very much for that reporting from the region.

Now to the other showdown in Washington. The Senate Judiciary Committee is set to vote in a matter of hours to advance the nomination of Neil Gorsuch for the Supreme Court. Will the GOP go nuclear to confirm him? We have CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, live on Capitol Hill with more.

Good morning, Suzanne.


Well, of course, the showdown in full force as this really could determine President Trump's most significant achievement yet, whether or not he could get Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court.

Both sides really leaning in over the weekend in preparation for what's going to happen in three hours. The Senate Judiciary Committee will start their hearing. We're expecting them both to follow along party lines. This will set the stage for three days, three full days of debate on the full Senate floor.

Now Republicans, they need that 60 votes to break the debate. How and when that debate is broken is critical here. They have 52 in the majority. They need eight Democrats to do that. If it does not happen, we have heard from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who's making it very clear that nuclear option is on the table. He will use it. He will change that threshold from 60 to 51 to make sure that Gorsuch gets the up or down vote.


MCCONNELL: Neil Gorsuch will be confirmed this week. How that happens really depends on our Democratic friends. How many of them are willing to impose cloture, on a partisan basis, to kill a Supreme Court nominee.

SCHUMER: Shen Gorsuch refused to answer the most rudimentary questions in the hearings, after there were many doubts about him to begin with, there was a seismic change in my caucus. And it's highly unlikely that he'll get 60.


MALVEAUX: Here is the state of play so far. Republicans all align, unified that they will support Gorsuch. Democrats, they now have three that have crossed the line here. The latest one that happened yesterday, there was moderate Senator Joe Donnelly of Indiana, who announced that he was supporting, as well as senators Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota. But first and foremost, they are looking for how the debate unfolds. And more importantly, how it ends, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Suzanne, thank you very much. Joining us now, Anthony Scaramucci, an informal advisor to President Trump, former member of the Trump transition team.

Always good to see you.


CUOMO: Big week. Egypt, Jordan and, of course, the centerpiece, China. Strong words from the president in this "Financial Times" interview. "I'll go it alone on North Korea." He said during the campaign, "China is raping us with its currency." Very strong words. Where do you think his head is, going into this meeting?

SCARAMUCCI: I think he's going to have a great meeting. I think at the end of the day, as he has said, he respects China. He respects President XI. I think he recognizes that there's a huge problem with North Korea, and he wants China's help with North Korea. My guess is he's going to get that help. I'm sure that there's enough things on the table.

One of the great things about our relationship with China, dating back to 1972, which is that we've created a very strong bilateral trading relationship and security relationship with China, Chris. And so my guess is, the president is putting that stuff out on the table. He'll probably leave Mar-a-Lago with a deal in some shape or form.

CUOMO: A deal on North Korea? There's a reason China has been slow, right. Seven billion dollars in trade. Shared border. The culture ties.

SCARAMUCCI: I think we all understand that. They also probably don't want North Korea to become South Korea. Because if North Korea becomes South Korea, look at what's going on in South Korea. How wonderful the economic miracle has been in South Korea. And it's too much of a juxtaposition with China's own system. So I recognize that, and the people -- the administration recognize that.

But I do believe that the president has enough things on the table that are of interest to China where we can get something done to dial back the security threat of North Korea.

CUOMO: What's your guidance on how real people or how much weight people should put in the president's suggestion that, hey, who knows? We'll go it alone. That that could mean military action, preemptive action against...

[07:10:08] SCARAMUCCI: I don't think he -- I don't think he said military action. I think what he...

CUOMO: He didn't say it. But do you think that should be seen as a suggestion?

SCARAMUCCI: I do. I think at the end of the day, the president is a bold decisive leader. The president is sending a message, not only to the Chinese but to the rest of the world. And listen, we're going to deal with this problem. This is a security threat to not only our allies like Japan, but to the West Coast, let's say, of the United States. He's the president of the United States. His No. 1 objective and priority, as we both know, is to protect American citizens.

And so of course, he'll deal with it unilaterally if he has to. But I predict he won't have to do that. I think there's enough common interest and common cause between the two nations. These are two very bright leaders. I think they'll come and reach a common ground on this.

CUOMO: The idea of preemptive strike. Do you think the president is aware that it's one thing to say it, but if if that, God forbid, scenario, you did something to North Korea, you've got 30 miles separating 25 million South Koreans from the border.

SCARAMUCCI: I didn't see him say that. I read the interview in "The Financial Times." I don't even want to go in that direction, because I don't think that's on the table. I think what's on the table is, hey, we need to deal with the problem. If I have to deal with the problem myself as the United States representing the American people, I'll do that. But my guess is he won't have to do that.

CUOMO: So, this is a big week. It's a foray into international relations. And we had Merkel. He's been dealing with Japan. He's been dealing with Israel. But this is different this week. And he could have just set the table for this conversation. And yet, this weekend, he went back after the Russia intrigue. He went back after the media about it. Why?

SCARAMUCCI: He doesn't like it.

CUOMO: Anthony, why? I get that he doesn't like it. But every time he says it's not legitimate, he feeds it.

SCARAMUCCI: OK, all right. Well, that might be true. But I do think that he is frustrated by the fact that the -- you know, people have said this before. That there is a conclusion looking for evidence. I think what he's basically saying is that a lot of this stuff isn't true. I know the stuff related to me wasn't true, as an example. So I can...

CUOMO: You're not in it. You've never been a real player.

SCARAMUCCI: Elizabeth -- come on, Elizabeth Warren asked Steven -- Steven Mnuchin to investigate me for shaking hands with somebody at a restaurant.

CUOMO: That's a politician. You're not part of this probe in any real way.

SCARAMUCCI: This is an ugly business. OK. You think journalism is bad? I thought Wall Street was bad until I descended upon Washington and realized the ugly nature of the business. And so what's happening here is a group of people that oppose the president, that want to hurt his administration, are bringing up all these Russia ties, which when I looked at it -- and I did work on the transition team and sat in on a lot of meetings. There were no Russia ties.

So I think the thing is a legitimate...

CUOMO: Did you know when you're doing the transition, you had all these guys talking to Russia? Did you know about the problems with Flynn and disclosure? SCARAMUCCI: I actually -- I actually didn't know that. And I think

the problem...

CUOMO: That's the point, right?

SCARAMUCCI: But the problems with Flynn and disclosure, have you ever filled out one of these forms before? Flynn is an American patriot. I don't like what's going on right now in the media, is that because he's now part of the political meat grinding process, we're going to turn him into chopped and case him up.

CUOMO: Your guys threw him under the bus at the White House by forcing him to resign.


CUOMO: They had all the cover they needed from the FBI. They said no charges. It's not misleading. You still threw him under the bus.

SCARAMUCCI: That may be your interpretation of the situation. But I think the general's interpretation of the situation is that he did not want to harm the president. OK? So he stepped aside as a result of that. Most people that are American patriots will do that.

So what I don't like about the situation is this is an American patriot that served valorously in the American military. And now us, the media, the administration, politics. We're going to throw him in the meat grinder? I just don't like it, Chris. I don't think it's fair to him.

CUOMO: I don't think it's a fair characterization. How is that a fair characterization? He comes out, he says, "I'm willing to talk to you guys, but it's a witch hunt," which gets echoed by the president. That doesn't do you a lot of favors with the people who are investigating it. And he says, "I want immunity." It the same man who said if you ask for immunity, He it means that you committed a crime.

He put himself in that position. Nobody else.

SCARAMUCCI: I think what ends up happening to you, he said that maybe a couple years ago.

CUOMO: He said that when it was convenient. Now it's not so convenient.

SCARAMUCCI: OK, but Chris, here's what -- here's what happens. When you're -- when you're in the situation -- and you know this and I know this. And I didn't know this before, but now that I've worked in Washington and I've had some experience in Washington, it is a verbally deadly business. And so what the general needs to do is he has to protect himself; he has to protect his family. I think the president tweeted about it. I don't follow his...

CUOMO: He called it a witch hunt. SCARAMUCCI: I don't -- I don't follow his tweets as closely as maybe

you follow his tweets. But I guess is he's probably very supportive of the general. The general was unbelievably...

CUOMO: Why didn't he keep him if he was so supportive?

SCARAMUCCI: I think that what ends up happening is that you do not want to be a distraction to the administration. You do not want to be a distraction to...

CUOMO: That would be fine if the president...

SCARAMUCCI: ... the promulgation of policy.

CUOMO: ... wasn't the biggest distraction. These tweets. That's why I introduced it. When you say it's...

SCARAMUCCI: Going back to...

CUOMO: Of course. Because he calls it a hoax. It's no hoax. You've got your boy Nunes running around doing all these gymnastics, trying to come up with political cover. It's not a hoax.

SCARAMUCCI: But let's define hoax for a second. Is this a legitimate news story? Some people have called it Watergate and all this sort of nonsense. I don't believe it is. And certainly, the president doesn't believe that it is. So -- so we can define a hoax.

CUOMO: The FBI has been looking at it since July. To me it is the beginning of the end of whether or not it's a hoax. How about for you?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, let's let the FBI have the investigation.

CUOMO: That was plenty good enough.

SCARAMUCCI: Take the president at his word. I also think I was involved with a lot of the different situations. He's calling it a hoax. I would say that there is specious evidence and probably absolutely no linkage. And I think the president will be vindicated in terms of what he's saying.

CUOMO: Right. Except, will -- those are two very different things. One is will there be proof of collusion? Very high bar. People should go very slowly on that. It is always accurate when we are told that there is no proof thus far of that, because we haven't been given any.

We know they've been looking at it since July. We know it was important enough for Comey to come out and address it. We know that these problems with being truthful about disclosure keep being a problem for this administration.

So collusion doesn't give you the equation of hoax. There are real questions there. Otherwise the FBI wouldn't be wasting their time. And before you say it's political, the president called Comey a star and kissed him on the chief like he was one of us, an Italian kissing on Jim Comey. So obviously, he puts trust in this man. Why shouldn't you?

SCARAMUCCI: I do. I have an enormous amount of respect for Jim Comey. In fact, we've known Jim Comey...

CUOMO: How is it a hoax? Looking into it a lot. He doesn't say it's a hoax.

SCARAMUCCI: I think what he's doing is what he has to do, is that there's a process. I think what the president respects about James Comey is he's a high integrity guy. And I think what the president also expects about the situation and the conclusion of the investigation is that there's really no "there" there.

CUOMO: Let it play out.

SCARAMUCCI: We're going to let it play out. But, you know, here we are. We've got a couple of very big issues going on.

No. 1, the situation with China. I predict he'll have a fantastic meeting, and they'll get meaningful results. No. 2, we have the Supreme Court nomination that's coming this week. We can toss a coin as to whether or not he's going to get to the 60 votes or not. My guess is he's going to be confirmed. That will be a huge win for America, a huge win for the administration and the president.

Whenever you think of Judge -- Justice Gorsuch, he's a phenomenal guy. And I think he'll be a meaningful addition to the court. So we can talk about these other issues, but there are three or four major things that are going to happen this week, Chris, that are going to be very positive for President Trump.

CUOMO: The question becomes will the president let himself succeed with China, with Gorsuch?

SCARAMUCCI: Of course.

CUOMO: This morning, he was tweeting about this issue with Russia. That's why I bring it up. Anthony Scaramucci.

SCARAMUCCI: Great seeing you.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure.

SCARAMUCCI: Are you going to kiss me? You've got a lot of makeup on.

CUOMO: Off camera. Off camera. I'm not as good-looking as you -- Alisyn.

SCARAMUCCI: You can't get in trouble for that.

CAMEROTA: Oh, boy. All right, gentlemen, you can take that to the break.

Meanwhile, an opponent once called Donald Trump the chaos candidate. But now as president, is that chaos a liability or an asset? CNN's Chris Cillizza gives us his take next.


[07:22:32] CAMEROTA: During the presidential campaign, Jeb Bush called Donald Trump the, quote, "chaos candidate." So that chaos, of course, helped Trump win the White House. Is it now hurting him?

Joining us now is CNN politics reporter and editor at large, Chris Cillizza. He has just written a piece for on this very topic.

Good morning, Chris.


CAMEROTA: OK. Spoiler alert. Your premise is the chaos is now hurting him.


CAMEROTA: But what is your evidence of that?

CILLIZZA: Well, look, so I did the math. I was an English major in college, but I can at least add up days. So from January 20 until today, it's been 73 days that Donald Trump -- parts or all of days that Donald Trump has been president. I counted two -- two days that he -- you could legitimately, I think, unquestionably say this guy has had a good day as president. The day he nominated Neil Gorsuch as president [SIC], and the day he spoke to the bipartisan group in Congress. OK. That's two out of 73. It's about 3 percent of his days. And you have just played the graphic, Alisyn. First 100 days. We're two -- we're three quarters of the way through those first 100 days.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but Chris, I have to challenge your premise, because I just sat down with this group of die-hard Trump supporters.

CUOMO: Here we go.

CAMEROTA: They see all sorts of victories. So what you see as two victories, you know, they see -- and let me just go through the ones that they just mentioned off the top of their head. They love that he's rolling back regulations with executive orders. They love that he got Carrier and other big companies to keep jobs here. They love that he's enhanced the power of ICE in terms of immigration. They love that he's talking about school choice. They could go on and on.


CAMEROTA: So they see the chaos as sort of keeping Washington off- kilter, and they like that.

CILLIZZA: They do. I do think that is true. And I think it is possible that in four years' time or three and a half years' time now, Donald Trump will be able to say, "I did many of the things" you just talked about, Alisyn. And that will both get his base revved-up and win enough independents that he can get reelected. I don't think that rules it out.

What I am saying is the problem he had, Chris just did that interview with Anthony Scaramucci. He said exactly the most important thing, which is Donald Trump doesn't let himself win enough. For someone who made it that he always wins, all he knows is winning, all he knows is cutting good deals. He undercuts a lot of the policy proposals that he has gotten accomplished.

Now, health care obviously is not one of them. But you're right. No question on regulations. No question on ICE, on environmental things. Many people who voted for him support those things.

[07:25:07] The problem is he just keeps getting in his own way, whether it's on Twitter, whether it's ten minutes of speeches in advance.

CUOMO: Whether or not -- you know, you can find Trump people all over the country in every different stretch, where there's economics. People voted for him for different reasons. Disruption was a big part of it. So he's going to have his support. Every poll shows it. Within his own party, He's at at least 77 to 80 percent. That's OK. It's about the larger picture.

The point to Scaramucci was will he let himself succeed this week?

CILLIZZA: That's it.

CUOMO: China's big. He's going to make this deal. Gorsuch. What is he tweeting about right now? "Did Hillary Clinton ever apologize for receiving the answers to the debate?" He just tweeted that four minutes ago. There's your answer. There's your answer.

And by the way, Hillary Clinton never got debate questions from Donna Brazile. They were for a town hall. It's a big difference during that, let me tell you. I've done town halls; I've watched debates. They're very different animals.

But forget about the facts, because that's going to be a strong point. He's getting in his own way.

CILLIZZA: I think that that's true. The problem here -- and I mentioned this in the piece, is chaos worked as a candidate because there's a bunch of other people to get off their kilter. Right? Whether it's Marco Rubio, Little Marco. Lying Ted. The attacks he made on Hillary Clinton.

I do think he made Hillary Clinton and her team second-guess what they thought would be the right thing to do because he's so unpredictable. The problem when you're the president, particularly for this first period of time, it's you against you. Right? There's not really an opponent there. Broadly speaking, the Democratic Party. But what winds up happening is the chaos sort of boomerangs back on you in a way that it doesn't in the campaign. It's not -- there's not an obvious foe.

CAMEROTA: Not exactly. We've seen some of the chaos. And maybe it isn't boomeranging back only on him. Look at the Freedom Caucus. So he's now making them -- he's keeping them off-kilter in the same way that you described.

CUOMO: Didn't they just get a big win?

CAMEROTA: Yes, they did just get a big win. But it is the unpredictability...


CAMEROTA: ... of that may also keep current opponents or foreign leaders or the Democrats off-kilter, as well. And maybe that works to advantage.

CILLIZZA: It could. I would say, Alisyn, you haven't seen it do it that much yet. Health care was a failure within the Republican Party. Say what you want about Democrats. None of them were supporting it.

The Republicans have a majority in the House. If they can get their members to vote for it, they should be fine. Gorsuch, let's see. You know, obviously, this is a big week for it. Let's see where it shakes out.

I would say, as a relation to diplomacy and foreign relations, you know, he's had sort of an awkward appearance with An-jela Merkel. He's had a -- Angela Merkel, excuse me. He's had, I think, pretty nice appearance with the Japanese prime minister.

This -- the China week is going to be difficult, given what he has said about them. So let's see.

I think you are right that Donald Trump believes chaos, unpredictability, that is his sort of -- his M.O. That's what he does. That's what he does well. It's what people know him for. It's what works.

I just think that the White House is a different animal than the campaign, and that's a different animal than running a business and being sort of a -- just a public figure and a brand face. We'll see. Again, it's 73 days in, which means he's got plenty more days before anyone will render a judgement on him.

CUOMO: It is the pattern.

CILLIZZA: Throughout his life, Chris. Not just -- not just in the White House. Throughout his life.

CUOMO: True, true. But this is a week where again you could have let it just be about the events that are going to happen this week. That's fine. Call the Russia probe a hoax, is you're saying that Jim Comey is a liar. You kissed the man on the face. That must show some kind of affection and trust. At least it does for us Italians.

And let me tell you, he's been looking at this since July. His tweets just today. Reporting about unmasking. There is no "there" there in terms of that being the story. This is about Russian interference. Not about leaks. You know, him saying this is about Podesta and his brother. That's not what this is about. And then the most recent tweet. Did Clinton apologize for the debate questions? He's reaching; he's creating a story on a week that could have been all about good news.

CILLIZZA: Yes, and that's what's odd. He got a lot of credit during the campaign, and I think somewhat rightly so, that he was able to deflect negative stories and sort of pivot with his Twitter feed onto stories that were more favorable ground for him.

The problem with this is this is not more favorable ground for him. There's no question, Alisyn, the people that you talked to will absolutely 100 percent rally behind this idea that he just tweeted, for example, about Hillary Clinton. No question. Well, she got him. They briefed her. Of course, because the press are Democrats.

The issue for him more broadly speaking is can he -- is that enough people to win? It's not enough people to win even in 2016. Remember, he won a lot of people on the fence at the last minute who just viewed the election as change versus more of the same and went with change. He needs to win a decent chunk of those people beyond just the people who are going to be for him no matter what...

CAMEROTA: Sure, sure.

CILLIZZA: ... in order to get reelected.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and those fence sitters, those people we don't know exactly how they're feeling.

CILLIZZA: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: But we will at some point.

CILLIZZA: And those fence sitters, just very quickly. Those tend to be the people --