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CIA: WikiLeaks A "Hostile Intelligence Service" Helped By Russia; Star Of The Administration?; Beyond The Call Of Duty; Massive U.S. Bomb Kills Dozens Of ISIS Fighters. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired April 14, 2017 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:10] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: CIA Director Mike Pompeo now blasting WikiLeaks as a hostile intelligence service. Those words, of course, very different from the president's on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, this just came out. This just came out. WikiLeaks -- I love WikiLeaks.
By the way, did you see another one? Another one came in today. This WikiLeaks is like a treasure trove.
MIKE POMPEO, CIA DIRECTOR: It's time to call out WikiLeaks for what is really is, a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK, let's discuss this with our uber panel. We have senior editor of "The Atlantic," David Frum, CNN political commentator and journalist, Carl Bernstein, and CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official Philip Mudd. Great to have all of you.
Carl, why is Mike Pompeo making a point of talking about WikiLeaks in these sort of sinister tones now?
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Because it's true and because right now we're in the midst of a huge series of investigations into a whole question of what Russia did in our election campaign to interfere with our very democratic system, and part of that story are these WikiLeaks disclosures that were aimed to destabilize us. That WikiLeaks was used, whether knowingly or unknowingly, by the Russians.
You know, WikiLeaks started as a -- as a rather admirable concept of divulging secrets that ought to be divulged. That's what it said it was going to do. Rather, it has turned into a simply anti-American jihad of information and not adhering to its original supposed purpose. And it's exactly what Pompeo said it is, on top of which Trump is part of right now trying to impede what we need to know about what Russia did and the collusion among people around him in the effort to destabilize our election campaign. JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And we have not heard, by the way, from President Trump condemning WikiLeaks in even close to the same way or at all, you know. And David, when you hear the CIA Director Mike Pompeo, former politician Mike Pompeo, you know, condemn WikiLeaks there is a little irony alarm that goes off or maybe some would call it a hypocrisy alarm because Mike Pompeo cited WikiLeaks during the campaign. President Trump said he loved WikiLeaks during the campaign.
DAVID FRUM, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, let's separate President Trump, who weaponized with WikiLeaks and made it a central issue in his campaign, from Mike Pompeo who said he was along for the ride and maybe now a redeemed soul. One of the reasons it makes this all so urgent is that there's a very important election in France coming up which may determine whether France stays in the European Union or whether the European Union continues to exist. WikiLeaks is, again, acting in that election to attack the candidates of the center.
It's noteworthy how pro-Russia candidates all seem to have fabulous email security and the more Russia skeptical candidates all seem to be so vulnerable to hacking. Those -- Emmanuel Macron, who is the candidate of the center -- his communications are being attacked. With a view -- what Russia's trying to organize is a race there between the extremist of the left, the extremist of the right, both of them skeptical of democracy, both of them willing to blow up the E.U., both of them friendly to Russia and hostile to the West.
CAMEROTA: Phil, how did this happen? Did WikiLeaks start as a real whistleblowing organization and then become co-opted by the Russians somehow?
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST, FORMER CIA COUNTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I think so. I think Carl got this just right. If you look at what Mike Pompeo was saying -- forget about WikiLeaks. What does an intelligence service do? It acquires information clandestinely -- secretly -- and sometimes uses that information for influence operations. What happened last fall? A security service didn't publish that information. This new revolution in intelligence -- crowdsourcing intelligence published it. I can see why Mike Pompeo said that.
Interesting to me, Alisyn, this is a rare day where the counterterrorism guy gets to do a good news story. The intel guys are going to look at Mike Pompeo and say regardless of what you thought as a politician, can you look at the world independently without bias, regardless of what the President of the United States has said about WikiLeaks, and offer an impression of what WikiLeaks looks like from an intelligence optic? Mike Pompeo did that. I think it took some courage.
BERMAN: You know, Carl Bernstein, the other intelligence story out there today -- our Pamela Brown reporting that British intelligence sources, early on the in the campaign, passed on that they'd been picking up surveillance of contacts between Trump associates and the Russians. They passed that on to the United States. You say this continues to raise questions as you see more and more facts come out -- more and more of this pattern of contacts of what the Trump administration is doing now. How they are handling this. How they are not addressing the situation or in the words you choose to use, how they're covering it up.
BERNSTEIN: There is a cover-up going on. We don't know exactly what the White House is trying to cover up about its dealing with Russia or the Trump campaign's dealing with Russia. We don't know that it's an obstruction of justice, but there certainly is an attempt by the President of the United States to obstruct and impede knowledge of what happened here. It doesn't mean he's broken the law. But why in the world would not this president say look, the Russians interfered in our campaign? I want everybody around me who had any dealings with them to make it known. He has Pompeo, he has his Intelligence Community.
He knows what is known by the British, by the Dutch, by these intelligence services that have picked up these intercepts of people around him speaking with Russian intelligence people. Trump knows a good deal that he's not revealing. We are going to find out an awful lot in the coming weeks and months about this cover-up. But it's really very disturbing that the President of the United States has tried to deflect and impede knowledge of what happened here in an attempt by a foreign hostile power to destabilize the United States electoral process.
FRUM: Can I refine that a little bit? I think it's very possible that the president does not know what he's covering up. That his -- he knows --
BERNSTEIN: That's true.
FRUM: He knows that there is a bad smell around Paul Manafort. He knows that Ukrainian ledger which found millions of dollars of payments to Paul Manafort from the pro-Russian dictator of Ukraine, it's now confirmed that that is real. And we know that large sums of those -- large sums did flow to Manafort. But exactly what the contacts were, it is very possible that other people in Trump world are terrified of what the information might possibly be. We don't know exactly the magnitude of the problem. It may be terrible, it may not be so terrible, but they are trying to seal and control a story whose magnitude they, themselves, don't know. You've seen that before.
BERNSTEIN: But Trump is the one who's trying to conceal and impede.
BERNSTEIN: That's what important, the President of the United States is doing it. And not only that, the whole question now is raised about well, what did Donald Trump say during the election while campaigning while this was going on about his pro-Russian, pro-Putin statements and how relevant they are to this? And so what we now want to know is how do these two things line up and, again, not going toward the criminal. Is it possible that Donald Trump was duped --
FRUM: Yes. BERNSTEIN: -- by his own people into the stances he took --
FRUM: I'm not here to -- I'm not here to -- I'm not here to condone him because you hire Paul Manafort, you know you're getting something that is going to possibly prove embarrassing or worse and he made that decision, but it sometimes happens and you've seen this. This is very much the story -- some of the Watergate events -- that the people at the top are covering up a scandal who ramifications they, themselves, don't fully understand.
CAMEROTA: Phil Mudd, last word.
MUDD: Look, I think there's a secondary problem we need to be concerned about. President Trump is a brander. He branded a company. He's branding himself as a decision-maker now announcing, for example, how central he was in the decision to strike Syria. I fear -- I have no evidence of this -- I fear one of the things that might be happening with the -- us getting sideways with Russia right now is he realizes that allying with Russia, as he said he would during the campaign, is bad branding. I'm afraid he's twisting because he's trying to cover up the campaign's relationship with Russia months ago, and that is not a good news story.
BERMAN: All right, guys, interesting discussion. Stay tuned for more because you know what, there will be more.
All right, she has made a big impression during President Trump's first 100 days but you may be surprised who inspired her political run. Jamie Gangel goes one-on-one with U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley. This is fascinating -- that's next.
[07:42:10] CAMEROTA: All right. So it looks like the holiday weekend could be stormy for much of the country. CNN meteorologist Chad Myers has our forecast. What are you seeing, Chad?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, you know, there are storms that will run through a cold front that will charge across the Great Lakes, maybe to the Ohio Valley, and eventually toward the Northeast, but that will be Sunday night for the Northeast. Right now we're mild. It's 64 in New York City, seventies down into D.C.
And here's that front I'm talking about. So, through the Plains a couple of storms, but for the Northeast just a shower upstate until Sunday night, maybe 9:00 or 10:00. That's when the showers will finally get to the Northeast. So taking a look at those temperatures again -- St. Louis, you're in the eighties all weekend. Washington, D.C. in the seventies, very nice. Up to around 85 or 86 degrees by your Sunday afternoon.
So let's get right to the hippity hoppity Easter's on it way guy. Temperatures across the country for your Sunday afternoon -- if you're going to be outside, some showers through Chicago, maybe even toward about Cleveland, Ohio down to Indianapolis, but the rest of the country very high and mild. Guys, happy weekend. CAMEROTA: Thank you, you too.
BERMAN: Hippity hoppity.
BERMAN: Chad Myers, thanks very much. All right, she has gone from South Carolina's governor and a vocal Trump critic to a key member of President Trump's administration. Now, the ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, is making headlines for her hard line on Russia. What does the president have to say about all of this? CNN's special correspondent Jamie Gangel sat down with Nikki Haley for a fascinating interview. She's been really making a name for herself these last 85 days.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, she's been the most public person in the cabinet. She is the rising star of this cabinet but, you know, what's interesting is no one expected this. Her first day at the U.N. she said there's a new sheriff in town, but no one expected that she would be so center stage.
GANGEL: From condemning the chemical attacks in Syria --
NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Look at those pictures.
GANGEL: -- to her aggressive stance on regime change --
HALEY: Strengthening Assad will only lead to more murders.
GANGEL: -- U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley has taken center stage as the leading voice of foreign policy in the Trump administration. Not afraid to speak her mind --
HALEY: For those that don't have our back we're taking names.
GANGEL: -- or contradict her boss.
HALEY: Russia is trying to show their muscle. I don't think that we can trust them.
GANGEL: Has he ever said to you, you shouldn't have said something?
HALEY: No, he has not.
GANGEL: Are you surprised that he's never?
HALEY: I'm not surprised because he knew that when he hired me that I made it clear I didn't want to be a wallflower or a talking head. I'm very passionate by nature and he's fine with it.
GANGEL: How much of it is coordinated with the White House and the State Department?
HALEY: Well, it's always coordinated with the White House. I mean, I'm very --
GANGEL: You're not going rogue?
HALEY: No, I would never go rogue because I'm very aware of who I work for and -- but what I'll tell you is, it's a sign of how this president works. It's not uncommon for him to pick up the phone and tell me what he feels on an issue. It's not uncommon for him to say make sure you say this -- don't be afraid to say this. He has given me a lot of leeway to just say what I think and interpret what he thinks. I'm a strong voice by nature. I'm sometimes a bull in a china shop and, you know, he allows me to do that.
[07:45:25] GANGEL: Friends say that same strength and independence served Haley well growing up in Bamberg, South Carolina. The daughter of Sikh immigrants from India, her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer, but the family suffered constant discrimination.
HALEY: They had never seen anybody in a turban, they had never seen anybody in a sari so they didn't know who we were, what we were, or what we were about. And so growing up was -- you always knew you were different. You felt it.
GANGEL: One such memorable moment, when she and her sister were disqualified from the Little Miss Bamberg beauty pageant, which crowned one white winner and one black winner. The judges said they were neither.
HALEY: My mom said well, Nikki's been practicing this song. Will you at least just let her do her song? And it was the "This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land".
GANGEL: There's the irony --
HALEY: It is.
GANGEL: -- of the story.
HALEY: But my mom would never let us complain and she'd always say your job is not to show them how you're different. Your job is to show them how you're similar.
GANGEL: Haley went on to get her accounting degree at Clemson, married her husband Michael, who's a captain in the South Carolina Army National Guard, and raised two children. Her daughter, Rena, now a freshman in college and her son, Nalin, who's 15. Along the way she credits two women with her interest in politics.
You're role model you frequently say is Margaret Thatcher.
HALEY: Yes. If you want something said, as a man. If you want something done, ask a woman. I love that.
GANGEL: But the woman who inspired you to go into politics -- to run -- was a Democrat --
HALEY: Yes. GANGEL: -- named?
HALEY: Hillary Clinton.
GANGEL: One day, she went to hear her speak.
HALEY: And she said for every reason people tell you not to do it, that's for every reason that you should. And that was it, I was done. I didn't know you weren't supposed to run against a -- you know, a 30- year incumbent in a primary but ignorance is bliss.
GANGEL: She won that race, served in the State House, then went on to break two barriers -- becoming the first Indian-American and first woman governor of South Carolina.
HALEY: So help me, God.
GANGEL: Overnight, she was a rising star in the Republican Party, thrust on the national stage after the horrific mass shooting at Charleston's Mother Emanuel AME Church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone just wanted to hug her. There's this image of Nikki crying.
GANGEL: And then she won praise for her successful campaign to remove the Confederate flag from the State House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nikki Haley did something that many people thought was impossible. A female who ran for governor and she beat all the boys. She's always persevered.
GANGEL: Her star power and clout were never more apparent than during the president campaign when she endorsed Florida Senator Marco Rubio and many thought this could be the GOP ticket.
Donald Trump did not take it well and he went on Twitter. "The people of South Carolina are embarrassed by Nikki Haley!" And not 20 minutes later you responded, "@realDonaldTrump bless your heart." What does bless your heart mean when you're from South Carolina?
HALEY: It's a southern polite way of saying read between the lines.
GANGEL: Trump didn't hold it against her, naming Haley his U.N. ambassador and it appears he's pleased with her high public profile.
Is there any tension with Secretary of State Tillerson? He has been so quiet. He's kept such a low profile and you've been out there. Any awkwardness?
HALEY: I think it's just the personalities, you know. He's very much an executive. He's thoughtful in his approach and how he moves forward. I'm one that's not afraid to say anything, you know. I'm not easily intimidated and so I can go out and say things, so I think we actually complement each other very well.
GANGEL: It has, however, led to speculation that someday Haley might like his job or higher office.
EverybodyI talked to said does she want to be Secretary of State?
GANGEL: Do you want to be senator?
GANGEL: Are you going to run for the White House?
GANGEL: You're not going to run for the White House? Everyone thinks you are.
HALEY: You know what's amazing, and this has happened my entire work career, is everyone thinks that I'm ambitious, and everybody thinks I'm trying to run for something, and everybody thinks I want more, and the truth of it is I'm just passionate.
GANGEL: But you wouldn't rule out that someday you might run for the White House?
[07:50:03] HALEY: I can't imagine running for the White House.
GANGEL: You really can't?
HALEY: I really can't.
CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.
GANGEL: She's the only one in the Republican Party --
GANGEL: -- who doesn't think that someday she will run.
CAMEROTA: But, I mean, look at all those revelations and her life story -- fascinating. I didn't know all of those things, certainly about her childhood, and then about her, you know, idol being Hillary Clinton. Just fascinating history.
GANGEL: Right. Never say no to her. I want to point out one thing. I think Donald Trump gives her a lot of leeway. She said she doesn't go rogue but if you look at the history of her public statements -- take the chemical weapons attack -- she was the first one out there, then the next day the White House spoke. And it was her decision to show those pictures that had such a big impact. I think they had not only a big impact at the U.N., but on Donald Trump. Her staff told me she trusts her instincts. So far, Donald Trump likes her instincts, too.
BERMAN: We know one thing. Donald Trump watches T.V. and when you see news events of the United Nations on T.V., clearly making an impact.
CAMEROTA: Jamie, thank you. That was great. Thanks so much for sharing that with us.
All right. Well, it's called the "Mother of All Bombs". It targeted ISIS in Afghanistan, killing dozens of fighters. Is that a message to North Korea and how do they interpret that message? We'll be right back.
[07:55:00] CAMEROTA: Police officers in Navajo Nation face a unique risk. They have to patrol the immense Native-American reservation. Now, an officer who was killed last month is being remembered for his bravery. CNN's Boris Sanchez has more in this week's Beyond the Call of Duty.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This stunning desert panorama in the southwestern United States is the largest Native-American reservation in the country. Spread across three states, the vastness and remoteness of the Navajo Nation reservation makes it incredibly challenging, even dangerous, for law enforcement. A territory larger than the size of West Virginia patrolled by a police force with a fraction of the resources and officers of its bordering counties.
PHILLIP FRANCISCO, POLICE CHIEF, NAVAJO NATION POLICE DEPARTMENT: They were probably working with half a staff that other police departments work with and well, twice the area, so the struggles out there and the hurdles they have to go through is immense, but they still go out there and do it every day despite the dangers and despite not having backup close by.
SANCHEZ: Last month, one of their officers, Houston Largo, was the only officer responding to a domestic violence call when he was shot and killed by an armed suspect.
FRANCISCO: He was like their baby brother. He was always there, he was full of life, full of humor. They always kept him going and they'll miss him greatly because he was one of the hardest working and most dedicated officers there.
SANCHEZ: Largo, a highly-decorated officer and also a volunteer firefighter is just one of three Navajo officers killed on duty in fewer than two years.
FRANCISCO: Most police chiefs and most police departments don't lose officers that often in that short amount of time.
RUSSELL BEGAYE, PRESIDENT OF NAVAJO NATION: It's just devastating. It really hits you right here in the heart.
SANCHEZ: At Officer Largo's funeral the president of Navajo Nation, Russell Begaye, gave a heartfelt message he wants people to hear.
BEGAYE: Remember that in that uniform behind that badge there's a person that is loved and honored, respected by many people. I want you just to remember that. (Applause)
SANCHEZ: A message that reaches far beyond Navajo Nation.
BEGAYE: We need to recognize that these are real people with families, with children, with spouses, with mom, dad. We need to teach our children to respect and honor law enforcement while they are young so when they grow up when they see a police officer they will be thankful that somebody is there protecting them.
SANCHEZ: Boris Sanchez, CNN, Window Rock, Arizona.
CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, what a wonderful message. Thanks to Boris there.
We are following a lot of news this morning so let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN NICHOLSON, COMMANDER, U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: Let me be clear. We will not relent in our mission to fight alongside our Afghan comrades.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have given them total authorization and, frankly, that's why they've been so successful.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The largest non-nuclear bomb used in combat targeting ISIS fighters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixteen years after 9/11 we are still fighting a war in Afghanistan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have more threats right now than ever before. We need a strategy.
BERMAN: Mounting concerns in North Korean who could conductits sixth nuclear test.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's entirely plausible that he might consider using chemical weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a touch and go situation that could escalate into an all-out conflict.
TRUMP: North Korea's a problem. The problem will be taken care of.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your new day. Chris is off this morning and John Berman joins me. Happy Friday.
BERMAN: It's good to be here.
CAMEROTA: Great to have you here. We do have some breaking news right now for you. The Pentagon is releasing new video of that massive bomb that hit and killed dozens of ISIS fighters in tunnels and caves in eastern Afghanistan. The U.S. commanding general calls this the "right weapon against the right target."
BERMAN: And what does this mean on the Korean Peninsula? Are the United States and North Korea on the brink of a military conflict? President Trump, we were just told, is closely monitoring the situation from Mar-a-Lago in Florida. This, as North Korea has condemned the United States for moving warships to the region. The big question right now, is this the eve of a new North Korean nuclear test?
A busy, critical day 85 of the Trump presidency. Let's begin our coverage with Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, who broke the story of the bombing in Afghanistan. We have new details from U.S. military officials just this morning, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. To look at that video, it's very telling, that 21,000-pound bomb falling yesterday into a deep mountain valley in a remote area of eastern Afghanistan in the -- against a complex of tunnels and caves being used by ISIS fighters. There are about 800 ISIS fighters across Afghanistan in the eastern area. This was a complex that the U.S. commanders say they wanted to go after to get ISIS out of there. And the top commander in that press conference just a short time ago, making it clear it was a military objective, insisting there were no outside political influences. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)