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How O'Reilly's Firing Will Change the Conservative Movement; Why Hillary Clinton Lost to Donald Trump; Aaron Hernandez's Attorney Vows to Investigate His Death; Interview with Representative Ted Deutch; Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired April 20, 2017 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00] BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: upset. Angry at the liberal "New York Times" trying to tear down.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Are they angry at FOX? I mean, do they think that FOX caved?
STELTER: I personally see a lot less of that. I see a lot more of scapegoating and identifying O'Reilly as the victim here.
I think, Chris, unfortunately you're right. This is political.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes. I mean --
STELTER: This has been politicized. O'Reilly calls himself a culture warrior. And he believes this is another battle.
CILLIZZA: The hard thing about this is it's not. It's not about -- it's turned into this battle over political correctness. It has nothing to do with political correctness.
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right. That's exactly right.
CILLIZZA: This is about that you don't -- you don't treat women that way. I mean, like -- we should all be able to agree on that. This isn't about the media, you know, putting a -- some sort of frame on it. You don't act that way to women. My dad taught me that when I was 10 years old.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, look, beyond the sexual harassment, there were a lot of people who bullied, you weren't just a woman at FOX News. That was the culture. You know, Roger ruled with an iron fist. And so men also were intimidated. Men also were scared. That I --
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Right.
CAMEROTA: It is different. I guess my point is that I prided myself on being able to navigate through it.
HOOVER: Yes. CAMEROTA: That that showed sort of, you know, a strong spine of being
able to navigate through it. But that, it turns out, wasn't the answer.
CUOMO: But I only say that --
CAMEROTA: And the answer was to tape him.
CUOMO: But I only --
CUOMO: That's what Gretchen Carlson.
HOOVER: And Gretchen Carlson, I mean, she is the hero of this story.
CAMEROTA: That was the beginning of this entire domino falling.
HOOVER: Every woman owes a debt of gratitude to Gretchen Carlson for having the courage to do what she did because that has really revealed what has gone on at FOX News.
CAMEROTA: There we go. Panel, we will obviously speak about this throughout the program. Thank you very much for sharing all of your stories.
Margaret, thank you.
CUOMO: We have another inside look coming up. There's a new book that's going to take a look, very deep look, the deepest one you've seen so far, of Hillary Clinton's campaign. Why did she lose? What is the answer from those who were on the inside? Next.
[07:35:48] CAMEROTA: There is a new book that is taking an in depth look inside Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign with riveting details about what led her loss to Donald Trump. The authors said the campaign saw trouble from the start. But now Clinton staffers are criticizing the reporting.
The book is called "Shattered: Inside Hillary Clinton's Doomed Campaign." It was written by Jonathan Allen, columnist at Roll Call, and Amie Parnes, the senior White House correspondent at "The Hill." They join us now.
Great to have both of you here.
JONATHAN ALLEN, COLUMNIST, ROLL CALL: Good morning.
CAMEROTA: Fascinating book. You guys went back and did basically the autopsy on what happened here. And beyond what James Comey of the FBI did in the final weeks, beyond Russia's interference, you found a lot of mistakes that the campaign itself and the candidate made. What did you -- what are the headlines that you discovered?
ALLEN: Well, I think one of the big things is there was a fight over her messaging all along between the candidate and her aides, among the candidate and aides. One of her senior staffers said to us, you know, I would have had a reason for running or I wouldn't have run. And they didn't believe -- some of them didn't believe that there was a rationale driving her.
CAMEROTA: They never fixed on a message.
CAMEROTA: I mean, that was a big problem.
ALLEN: Right. They got --
CAMEROTA: Why didn't they?
ALLEN: They got a slogan. Stronger together, you know, basically from the convention on. But there was never something so clear and easy to accept for voters as what Donald Trump was offering which was nationalistic and isolationist and anti-immigration.
CAMEROTA: Make America great again.
ALLEN: But it was very clear what he was promising to do with the president. With her, she was forced so many things. It was hard to tell exactly what she was going to prioritize.
CAMEROTA: And whose fault was that, Amy?
AMIE PARNES, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE HILL: We think that it was a couple of people's. Obviously the candidate. She is the candidate. There was some blame to go among the top aides. Some people point to Robby Mook because he was so focused on analytics and data, and, you know, to the detriment of, you know, polling. They didn't poll for the last three weeks of the campaign in key states like --
CAMEROTA: Because he -- Robby Mook, I mean, according to your reporting, was so confident in their algorithm that he was crunching numbers and he forgot to, what, talk to the people?
PARNES: Right. And that was a criticism lobbed at him by people like Bill Clinton. President Clinton was really unhappy. You know, he was on the ground talking to people. He was feeling a different kind of thing than what the analytics were reporting back. And he was saying, maybe I should go to this place. Maybe I should go to that place. And he was always told, no, not quite. Let's not -- you know, we're told something different.
CAMEROTA: Explain that. Why go with Robby Mook? With all respect, you know, due, over Bill Clinton? The titan of politics.
ALLEN: It's this incredible sort of modern debate of data and science versus art. And Bill Clinton was the art of political persuasion. Walking into a room where people disagreed with him, disarming them and at least pulling a few of them in his direction.
Robby Mook comes from this newer generation of people who were so focused on data. And the efficiencies there created by data and what they found as most efficient was to try to turn out people that already supported her. And what cost more to do, what was harder to do, was to persuade people that weren't with her so they abandoned the traditional persuasion techniques. A lot of the door knocking that you would normally do.
And look, there is room for art and science in politics. And I think that's one of the big takeaways from this book. Not only looking backward, but looking forward for candidates in the future. You can't just slice and dice numbers and hope to win elections.
CAMEROTA: Look, you can't underestimate also Hillary Clinton herself and what everybody says is that, you know, as a person and as a politician, well, I guess when she gets the job, she is much more impressive than she is as a candidate. And you have this quote about how she didn't understand some things, and this is in "Shattered," page 145. "I don't understand what is happening with the country. I can't get my arms around it."
PARNES: There is this rise of populism going on around her. And she -- there she is on a plane confiding to one of her closest confidante, a longtime aide of the Clintons'. You know, I can't really grasp what's happening. And here she is opposing Bernie Sanders in the primary who is filling up, you know, arenas and people are really excited for his campaign, and in the general, she'll face Donald Trump who's doing the same thing. And she doesn't quite understand what's happening.
[07:40:09] CAMEROTA: And did she think it was going to be a cake walk?
ALLEN: I don't think she ever thought it was going to be a cake walk. I think she believed once she had a primary opponent in Bernie Sanders that he would run hard. I don't think she expected him to be as successful as she was. I don't think she ever looked at either the primary or the general election as a cake walk, though. This is somebody that's been taking arrows in the public sphere for a quarter of a century. She knew this was going to be a tough race.
That said, a few days out from the election and on election night, she believed she was going to win. She was talking about governing. She was with her aides. She was talking about what she was going to do when she got in the White House. Even as she said to one of them in a moment of real clarity, she said, I know I bring out the worst in people. I don't know why that is. But it is. And the aide said to her, it's going to be even tougher when you're in the White House. And she said yes, it is.
CAMEROTA: She wasn't alone. I mean, she wasn't alone in thinking that she was going to win on election night.
PARNES: Yes. We all thought she was going to win. CAMEROTA: You know, most of the country thought that she was going to
win including we have reports that the Trump campaign thought that she was going to win. But, I mean, you guys had lots of sources obviously on the inside. Now, publicly, people who were involved in the campaign are saying that this is not true. That they didn't say these things. That this is not what really went wrong. What have you heard about the sort of blowback?
PARNES: There's been a little pushback on Twitter from campaign aides. We are aware of that, but you know, we didn't talk to just one or two people in the campaign. We talked to hundreds -- we have hundreds of interviews backing this up. People from the top of the campaign on down. This was their story. This is how they told it to us. And we stand behind it.
ALLEN: If I could make two quick points on that. Number one, they are not really pushing back on specifics. They are just sort of blankly at least saying it wasn't this dysfunctional. And then the second piece of that is, you know, right after the -- right after the campaign, we came out with a report that said that President Obama had pushed Hillary Clinton to concede. A week later, her campaign manager Robby Mook said publicly that that wasn't true. It turned out he didn't know about the concession call, which is a pretty good example of lack of communication when the president calls the Democratic nominee to tell her to concede and her campaign manager is unaware of that call.
CAMEROTA: We have about 10 left. What did they tell you they would do differently if they could have it all over?
ALLEN: I think they wouldn't have that e-mail server that hung as a cloud over the entire campaign.
CAMEROTA: Amie and Jonathan, thank you. Great book. It's called "Shattered." Thanks so much for sharing it with us.
ALLEN: Thank you.
PARNES: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right. Another big story. Mystery surrounding Aaron Hernandez's apparent suicide. Was his attorney is doing now after the 27-year-old's sudden death. A live report next.
[07:46:39] CUOMO: All right. New details coming to light about the sudden death of convicted murder and former NFL star Aaron Hernandez. He was found dead in his prison cell. Massachusetts authorities are investigating what happened. So is his attorney.
CNN's Deb Feyerick joins us now with more. What do we know? DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we do know
is the reason this is being investigated is because this was an unattended death. And so by law, it's got to be investigated. But Aaron Hernandez went from the relative freedom of the courtroom where he was smiling with his fiancee, waving to his child, back to a small cell in general population in a maximum security prison. And there early yesterday, he hanged himself.
He tied a bed sheet around his neck, the other to a cell window, and then he simply dropped down. And this was five days after what you're witnessing there. Five days after being found not guilty of a double murder.
Now in his cell he had pushed objects against the door, presumably buying him a few extra moments from guards who then tried to make their way in. But he died within an hour of this. And they're having reports that he had written a bible verse from John 3:16 about everlasting life for those who believe.
I spoke to a law enforcement source last night who said that that's a phrase that's commonly found among comments in prison. We don't know whether that was left and we don't know whether that was intended as a potential suicide note. But we do know that an autopsy has been performed. Toxicology reports are going to take several weeks. Then it will be determined whether in fact he had anything like drugs in his system.
But because this is an unattended death, there is a mandatory investigation. Jose Baez, his lawyer, has suggested that this is not sure because Aaron Hernandez didn't seem to be in that kind of a frame of mind. So he's launching his own investigation.
But I did speak to a DA spokesperson yesterday who said that there's nothing to indicate that this was anything but an apparent suicide. When you look at Aaron Hernandez, three people linked to him are dead and even with a $40 million contract, a fiancee, a child, it just seems that Aaron Hernandez could not give up the street life. So we are watching this investigation to see what comes out of it. But they are looking very carefully as to what those events may have been that caused this.
CUOMO: All right. Deb, I appreciate it very much. Let us know of any developments.
CAMEROTA: All right. President Trump says a health care deal is coming soon. Maybe as early as next week. Will Democrats work with him? We ask a key Democratic congressman next.
[07:52:57] CUOMO: President Trump says a health care deal is coming soon. Sources tell CNN the White House hopes to revive it before the hundred day mark. That means next week. By the way, Congress is still in a recess.
Can a deal get done? Let's ask Democratic Congressman Ted Deutch of Florida, a ranking
member of the Committee on Ethics.
Good to have you on the show.
REP. TED DEUTCH (D), RANKING MEMBER, COMMITTEE ON ETHICS: Great to be with you.
CUOMO: First-time appearance. Good to have you. So going to get a deal done?
DEUTCH: Well, it's hard to see how there is going to be a deal. If you look at -- Chris, look at the way the last deal fell apart. You took a program that's added coverage for tens of millions of Americans and has finally provided some peace of mind to Americans and you try to replace it with a piece of legislation that drove up costs on everyone, that did away with essential health benefits, that gutted Medicaid, that had an age tax that was put in place.
There is a reason that when you take away all of those things and you undermine a program that has been helpful to so many, there is a reason that only 17 percent of the American people think that that's a good idea. So if the goal is to take that bad piece of Trumpcare and make it worse, then all you're going to see is those numbers tank even more. No, I don't think so.
CUOMO: As a political reality, is there anyone from the right reaching out with anyone on the left? Or is there any energy that you know of within the ranks on the right, with the Freedom Caucus and the moderate Republicans, to do anything different than what we've seen so far?
DEUTCH: Well, the -- in fact, to the contrary. There are a lot of my moderate Republican friends who were very concerned about the direction the debate went the last time and now they're looking at this wondering why it is that we're bringing something back that was so unpopular that would cost tens of millions, more than 20 million Americans the coverage that they now have --
CUOMO: So when the president says it's getting better all the way, he seems to be suggesting there is an ongoing negotiating, a massaging process, you know nothing of any of it?
DEUTCH: I don't -- I think it's impossible to know what the president is talking about when he says it's getting better.
[07:55:05] The only thing that's getting better in this discussion of health care is the realization that the American people have as expressed at the town hall meetings that I and my colleagues have all engaged in, that they don't like this and they want -- they want us to actually work on issues where we could come together and advance the American people's interests.
CUOMO: So as far as you know, Republican leadership hasn't reached out to Democratic leadership to try to do something different? There is no new bill making the rounds? DEUTCH: There's no bill that we've seen. The only discussions that
we've heard about are discussions that have taken place between the administration and the Freedom Caucus and the Freedom Caucus wants to strip away all of the safe guards that have been put in place as a result of the Affordable Care Act. They want to do away with essential health benefits. Maternal care, pediatric care, emergency room care. That's never going to fly. Not with Congress and not with the American people.
CUOMO: Now you flagged what was just said by Rex Tillerson in Iran and the -- another apparent pivot from this. They seem to be following the deal to we're going to review the deal. We think they're the next North Korea. You see it as a metaphor for your concern about the foreign policy in the White House in general. Why?
DEUTCH: Well, the foreign policy and the diplomatic efforts of this White House are so muddled and so confused, and this is really a question of American leadership and when the State Department puts out one statement and then the secretary of State comes out and says something different.
On Iran, it's not that complicated. We should be leading. We have a multilateral agreement that whether you liked it or not, the State Department certified that it's working thus far. We should make the case that we're going to lead the effort to vigorously enforce that deal even as we look at Iran's destabilizing influence. But it's not just that, Chris. It's the way that they are approaching leadership throughout. The State Department has been gutted more than half of our -- close to half of our embassies around the world don't have American leadership in them. The State Department budget, if Trump has his way, if the president has his way, will be cut by a third.
They can't -- and this is what's so startling, the president hasn't even made it a priority to bring on an assistant secretary who focuses on diplomatic security to help keep our men and women serving our country and embassies and consulates safe.
CUOMO: All right. So they'll say they haven't staffed up yet. Give them more time. But on the Iran deal.
CUOMO: You hated the Iran deal. You came --
DEUTCH: I did not support the Iran deal.
CUOMO: Yes. You said this is the wrong deal. It's the wrong way to do it.
CUOMO: Don't let this people get money. Starve Iran from getting any foreign investment.
CUOMO: That's exactly what the Trump White House is saying. Are you choosing politics over policy here?
DEUTCH: Of course not. Of course not. The good policy here now that this deal is in place and the State Department has certified that thus far it is working, the good policy is to lead our allies. Remember, this is not just the United States. It's a multilateral deal. Lead our allies in vigorously enforcing it so that you can then turn around and lead our allies and make clear.
This is what the secretary should have done. He should have said the nuclear deal deals with nuclear issues and we're going to be very tough in enforcing it. But it doesn't deal with Iran's support for terrorism. It doesn't deal with their violations of human rights. It doesn't deal with their destabilizing influence throughout the region and we're going to target that bad behavior. They're not mutually exclusive.
Instead, there is this really confusing and muddled approach just like -- it's not even just this issue, though, Chris. Look at the way that the State Department has dealt with Turkey for the past few days. You have a statement from the State Department expressing grave concerns with the way the election was conducted, the constitutional reform.
DEUTCH: And then the president reaching out to congratulate Erdogan. If we're going to lead, there has to be a coherent message of diplomacy and there just is not.
CUOMO: Fine. But, you know, Turkey is a little complicated. We need them so much in that region. They're the biggest standard in --
DEUTCH: They're a NATO ally. That's -- of course.
CUOMO: Right. Let me ask you something else while I have you. Ethics. You know, you're the ranking member there on the committee about ethics. What do you make of the criticism that people knew who Trump was and what he was about. The same goes for his kids. He wound up winning the election. It's been all smoke. There is no fire. Leave him alone about the conflicts.
DEUTCH: It's interesting that you ask that question today when just yesterday, I think, Todd Ricketts withdrew his name for consideration to be a commerce -- deputy commerce secretary because he wanted to avoid even the appearance of conflict. This president has gone well beyond appearance.
It's true. People had some idea that the president was a businessman, but nobody expected that when he took office he was going to continue that business. No one could have imagined.
CUOMO: He says he has taken the necessary steps. You do not believe that.
DEUTCH: Well, I don't believe it because it's not true. He said before he was inaugurated that he was going to take the steps to divide his business from the people's business that he does as president of the United States, which is what's necessary. Instead, just down in Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach County where I believe, he hosted a dinner for President Xi and his daughter sat next to the president of China the same day that China approved the number of trademarks that will benefit her business which is a family business.