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Congress Strikes Budget Deal to Avert Shutdown; Trump Pushes for Health Care Vote This Week; Trump Invites Controversial Philippines President to White House; Woman Killed, 6 Wounded in Pool Party Rampage. Aired 7-7:30a ET
Aired May 1, 2017 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. We're just doing a little research here. We begin with breaking news.
[07:00:07] Shutdown averted. Democrats and Republicans agreeing on a spending plan overnight that keeps the U.S. government funded through September. The bipartisan spending agreement contains no money, though, for President Trump's border wall and nor -- it also does provide full funding for some programs that he had vowed to cut.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the administration is hoping a new bill to repeal and replace Obamacare will get a vote this week. Remember, this is crunched. Congress is going on another vacation or recess, as they call it.
So all of this is going on as our president has invited a world leader with an atrocious record of human rights abuses to visit the White House. CNN has it all covered.
Let's begin with Suzanne Malveaux, live on Capitol Hill -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.
Well, certainly surprising news to wake up to on a Monday morning. Members of Congress working over the weekend to hammer out the deal to fund the government beyond this Friday through September. This comes after weeks of tense talks between Democrats and Republicans, who seemed equally determined to avoid a government shutdown.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Rare bipartisan agreement on Capitol Hill over a $1 trillion spending bill that includes billions in new defense spending and $1.5 billion for border security but not a single dollar for President Trump's border wall, despite the president's insistence that a wall is necessary at Saturday's campaign rally.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll build a wall, folks. Don't even worry about it. Go to sleep. Go home, go to sleep. Rest assured. That's the final thing, we need it.
MALVEAUX: Also left out of the bill, federal cuts to sanctuary cities and money for a deportation force, two of the president's other campaign promises.
TRUMP: At the heart of my administration's efforts to restore the rule of law has been a nationwide crackdown on criminal gangs; and that means taking the fight to the sanctuary cities that shield these dangerous criminals from removal.
MALVEAUX: The spending bill includes some victories for Democrats, including no cuts to Planned Parenthood funding, a nominal cut to the EPA's budget, a $2 billion increase for the National Institutes of Health, which the president targeted for budget cuts, and $295 million to help Puerto Rico continue making payments to Medicaid, a Democratic demand the president has spoken out against multiple times.
The bill also includes millions to reimburse local law enforcement for extra security for the president and first family when they travel to Florida and New York.
Other bipartisan victories include $407 million in wildfire relief for western states and a permanent extension to a program that provides health insurance for coal miners, a key constituency for President Trump.
TRUMP: Who are the miners here? The miners, finally, we're taking care of our miners. We love our miners.
MALVEAUX: Votes on the funding bill are expected to go to both chambers by the end of the week. At the same time, some House Republicans are determined to revive the health care plan to repeal and replace Obamacare -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Suzanne, thank you very much for that.
So the Trump White House hoping to build momentum on the GOP's latest health care bill. Meanwhile, the president is under fire for inviting the Philippines' controversial leader to the White House.
CNN's Joe Johns has more at the White House. He's live for us.
Good morning, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.
The president and the administration trying to raise expectations and reduce them at the same time on health care, beginning the second 100 days of this administration. Also trying to reduce the focus on the calendar, even suggesting it could take the end of the year before a bill gets to the president's desk.
MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think healthcare reform, repealing and replacing Obamacare, is just around the corner. But I think we're close. JOHNS (voice-over): The White House expressing confidence in the GOP's latest health care bill. President Trump trying to spin the administration's efforts, saying they aren't pushing for a vote.
TRUMP: I said just relax. Don't worry about this phony 100-day thing. Just relax. Take it easy. Take your time. Get the good vote, and make it perfect.
JOHNS: Despite calling out lawmakers by name at his Saturday rally.
TRUMP: And I'll be so angry at Congressman Kelly and Congressman Marino and all of our Congressmen in this room if we didn't get that damn thing passed quickly.
JOHNS: The president falsely claiming that the new bill guarantees coverage for those with pre-existing conditions.
TRUMP: Pre-existing conditions are in the bill. And I mandate it. I said it has to be. We have -- we're going to have lower premiums.
JOHNS: When in reality, the draft bill would allow states to opt out of this requirement under certain conditions.
[07:05:08] Meanwhile, the Trump administration is under fire for inviting the Philippines' authoritarian leader to the White House. Rodrigo Duterte has led a deadly crackdown on drugs that's left thousands dead.
REINCE PRIEBUS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: If we don't have all of our folks together, whether they're good folks, bad folks, people that we wish would do better in their country. Doesn't matter. We've got to be on the same page.
JOHNS: The White House arguing that the U.S. needs the Philippines to combat the North Korean threat. As Trump's critics and human rights organizations respond with outrage.
The president also raising eyebrows for again questioning if Russia is responsible for hacking during the 2016 campaign.
TRUMP: If you don't catch a hacker, OK, in the act, it's very hard to say who did the hacking. With that being said, I'll go along with Russia. Could have been China. Could have been a lot of different groups.
JOHNS: Offering no evidence to discount the conclusions of his own FBI director and 16 other intelligence agencies.
President Trump marking his 100th day in office over the weekend with a campaign rally, reprising attacks on his favorite foe.
TRUMP: I think we would all agree the media deserves a very, very big fat failing grade.
(END VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS: New this morning, it's looking more likely that there's going to be another change on the national security front here at the White House. Sources telling CNN that Sebastian Gorka, the controversial national security aide at the White House, is likely to leave his job.
Chris and Alisyn, back to you.
CAMEROTA: Thanks, Joe.
CUOMO: All right. Appreciate it.
Let's bring in our panel. CNN political analyst David Gregory; CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Michael Smerconish; and CNN contributor Salena Zito. Salena interviewed President Trump this weekend for "The Washington Examiner."
Let's put up the list of what is in and what's out of the spending here. This is being spun, David Gregory, as a good day for Democrats. The border wall is not in there. The money that goes to Planned Parenthood is in there. There's a big increase for the NIH.
Politically, what does this mean about what is being forged in D.C.?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think what's important is that Congress run by Republicans didn't have a government shutdown. So that's No. 1. I mean, the White House couldn't handle that. The Republican leadership couldn't handle that. Before we, you know, throw a big party for them, let's remember they still have not passed a budget.
Democrats couldn't do it. Republicans couldn't do it. I think in this case, you have the White House holding its fire a little bit on issues like the border wall, giving into some Democratic demands on spending. And so it's just kind of steady as she goes. They've got bigger fights right now over health care, over tax reform. You don't want to get mixed up in -- in going to the mattresses over a stop-gap spending measure.
CAMEROTA: But Michael, let's look at what's out, what's not in there. Because Chris alluded to it. But I think that's it's notable, and we should talk about it. There are no funding cuts for Planned Parenthood. So things that you have heard from so many Republicans on our air here and beyond. It didn't materialize.
Planned Parenthood will be funded. There's no money for President Trump's deportation force. There's no federal cuts to the sanctuary -- the so-called sanctuary cities. You know that so many mayors had really railed against the idea of those cuts. No funding for the border wall construction.
So I mean, this does seem as though there's been an acquiescing to what Democrats wanted, and I guess the question is why.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, "SMERCONISH": Why? Because he wants to win. I mean, I think the only constant, Alisyn, about the first 100 days is the inconsistency to the first 100 days. And the president, and I would say to his credit, has not governed in
a very rigid fashion. He said a lot of things on the campaign trail that have been completely belied by his conduct in the first three months. Whether it's Syria, whether it's less cozying up to Russia, whether it's NATO, whether it's China as a currency manipulator. I could rattle off a dozen thin things that were said on the campaign trail that have just not come to pass now that he's president of the United States.
And I think he's grown frustrated with the lack of legislative success. To David's point, this only gets us to September, so it's really not a budget. But I think he wants to continue to be forward moving and could not afford another setback like a government shutdown.
CUOMO: Well, and he got it done, Salena, for more than just a week. Right? That was the original concern, is that this would take you through the first week in May. But in terms of winning, how does this get defined?
SALENA ZITO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think this was a win for everyone. It's sort of the, like, saying that old saying, this is not the hill we want to die on. And I think it was sort of a win for Democrats, Republicans and for the White House.
As David said, there's a lot more things going on with the next couple weeks that the president wants to take on. And this will hold -- he's -- he's very explicit in saying, "Look, I'm still going to get this done. I just didn't want to get into this mess right now."
[07:10:15] You know, and one of the things that he prides himself on is his flexibility. And one of the things we sort of need to remember, if we listen to what his voters said, is that they don't mind compromise. And they want to see things get done.
So, if they lose a little here and lose a little there, but gain in the larger picture, they're happier. At least that's what they've told me as I'm out here in the country talking to people that supported him. And even if you look at my story in "The New York Post" yesterday, I found a guy in Ashtabula County, Ohio. He didn't vote for Trump but he does -- he kind of likes the way he's approaching the presidency, and he's willing to think about him for 2020.
CAMEROTA: David, let's talk -- let's move on to health care. At least the repeal and replacement of Obamacare, because we hear that it might be ready. It might be baked enough for a vote this week.
One of, obviously, the things that everybody is watching to see if it's in this new and so-called improved version is will there be the coverage for pre-existing conditions. So President Trump was asked about it this weekend. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Pre-existing conditions are in the bill. And I mandated it. I said it has to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In one of the fixes that was discussed, pre- existing was optional for the states.
TRUMP: Sure, in one of the fixes, and they're changing it. They're changing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would still be permanent?
TRUMP: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What's the development, sir? A crucial question: it's not going to be left up to the states. Everybody gets pre-existing, no matter where they live.
TRUMP: No. But the states are also going to have a lot to do with it, because we ultimately want to get it back down to the states.
The state is going to be in a much better position to take care of it, because it's smaller.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I'm not hearing you, Mr. President, say there's a guarantee of preexisting...
TRUMP: We actually have -- we actually have a clause that guarantees.
CAMEROTA: OK. So is it up to the states or not?
GREGORY: I don't know. I don't think the president knows in the final analysis. And we'll find out. I mean, you know, this is a fluid process. Just because the president says it doesn't mean it's so or is going to be so. And that's really just the function of grinding out whatever the final compromise is.
The danger is this sounds a lot to me like we heard from the president before about pre-existing conditions or other aspects of the bill that ultimately did not prevail, because the bill didn't prevail.
Now they are taking a second bite. They're saying, "No, we're going to get it this time." Well, coverage is a huge issue. Once we get past all of the fine points of whatever is in the bill, who's covered, how many are covered? And this is a political issue, but it's also a policy issue. It affects hospital reimbursement, all the rest, who comes in for health care, how people use the system. And so there's a real danger of coverage just nose diving as a result of what Republicans are talking about on the Hill. So we'll have to see.
CUOMO: Michael, look, there's a complicated waiver system to give some of the states some more flexibility. They can opt out of preexisting conditions under certain conditions. So it's not a straight line. And for the president -- that's what Dickerson was getting at there, that it's not 100 percent in there. That's just the reality right now. But it is just a wish list. It's not a real bill yet. But coverage versus care. Isn't the big concern that the main promise that the Republicans made is that more people will be able to get care. The ACA card is worthless for too many people right now.
They are jeopardizing that by compromising on something like pre- existing conditions. Because if there's flexibility in that, a lot of people will not get care.
SMERCONISH: I see it a little bit differently. The issue here is whether the business model can sustain itself by affording care to people with pre-existing conditions unless you say everybody has to have insurance.
CUOMO: The mandate.
SMERCONISH: In other words, Chris, yes. In other words, the way in which you can afford to pay for people with pre-existing conditions is if you get a guy who's a stud like Chris Cuomo and works out and is healthy and get him into the pool. Because...
CUOMO: How did you into this?
CAMEROTA: Why, Michael? Why do you do this?
CUOMO: It's the best part of the show.
SMERCONISH: So people who are healthy in the pool. Unless you get those young invincibles in the pool. You can't offset the cost.
And so I've never understood the Republican opposition to the mandate. Because frankly, at its core, it's a matter of personal responsibility. Everybody ought to have insurance. And if we all have insurance, then we afford...
SMERCONISH: ... care for those who are pre-existing.
GREGORY: And that's -- that's why Obamacare was having such difficulty, is that the young invincibles were not getting enough insurance. They'd rather absorb the penalty. But I should just point out for -- to be clear, Cuomo is not that young.
CUOMO: True. I'm actually older than he is.
CAMEROTA: I thought you were going to say which way to the pool? That way.
CUOMO: I don't want to rip my jacket.
CAMEROTA: Salena, this controversial invitation from President Trump to President Duterte of the Philippines. Duterte, you know, who is a total lightning rod. What do you think is President Trump doing here?
[07:15:04] ZITO: I think he's trying to build -- build alliances and sort of this show of strength in Asia against North Korea. He talked extensively about diplomacy during our interview and how important it was to get something worked out, especially with -- with China. And that he wanted to have a show of strength over there and sort of isolate North Korea. I think that's what's part of this. Unfortunately, President Dutente [SIC] -- is that how you say his name?
ZITO: Yes. That guy. He's a bad dude.
CAMEROTA: Yes. On that note, we will leave it there. Michael, I'll never forgive you. Chris will be insufferable for the next -- well, what do I mean, "will be"?
CUOMO: Man speaking the truth. The man speaks the truth.
CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you.
CAMEROTA: Thank you.
CUOMO: We're following breaking news. Police want to know what led a gunman to open fire at a pool party in San Diego? Police say a woman was killed, six others hurt.
CNN's Paul Vercammen is live at the scene with the breaking details -- Paul.
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, behind me detectives are still taking photographs with their cameras. The flash bulbs going off here in the early morning hours.
As you pointed out, they're trying to figure out what happened here. By police accounts, the gunman using a -- basically, a high-caliber semiautomatic pistol, fired away at the guests at this pool party in this very luxurious apartment complex. At one point, they said he had a beer in one hand and was actually sitting on pool furniture.
Police exchanged fire with this gunman, Peter Selis, 49 years old, said to be a mechanic here in the San Diego area, and he was killed. But also killed, one of the victims. Many others in the hospital this morning in critical condition.
We also had an AFIC (ph), and that was a man who was running away who broke his arm in all of this.
No clues yet, no motive, police say, although all of the victims were people of color, six African-Americans, one Hispanic. And it was also revealed in the "San Diego Union-Tribune" that the shooter was suffering from some crushing debt and bankruptcy, filed for it back in about 2015.
Back to you now, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Oh, my goodness. What a tragedy. Please keep us updated from out there, Paul.
So another tragedy. A U.S. soldier killed over the weekend in Iraq. Officials say 25-year-old First Lieutenant Weston Lee died when a bomb blew up during a patrol outside of Mosul. Authorities say this incident is under investigation
CUOMO: All right. A failing mike leads to an unforgettable moment in Edmonton. You see this yet? So you've got country singer Brett Kissel. He's attempting to perform "The Star-Spangled Banner" at last night's NHL playoff game. The mike dies. So what does he do? He asks for a little help from several thousand of his closest friends. Listen to the reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETT KISSEL, COUNTRY SINGER: Hey, is this working? Let's sing it together. "O, say, can you see by the dawn's early light...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: The whole crowd. One voice. The microphone resumed working just in time for a second performer to come out and sing the Canadian national anthem. But boy, what a moment that was.
CAMEROTA: That's beautiful. Thought at times it sounded like his mike was working. Maybe he just needed some help from the crowd.
CUOMO: Right. And it was really great. It was just a great energy in there.
CAMEROTA: That's beautiful. Everybody should sing every game.
CUOMO: One voice.
CAMEROTA: That's wonderful.
All right. Meanwhile, the White House is pushing for a health care vote this week. A member of the Freedom Caucus tells us why this version of the bill is, in fact, new and improved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[07:22:54] TRUMP: We'll build a wall, folks. Don't even worry about it. Go to sleep. Go home. Go to sleep. Rest assured. That's the final thing we need.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Congress did reach a bipartisan spending agreement to keep the government funded until September. There will be no shutdown to worry about this week. The deal adds billions for military and border security. But there is no money yet for the president border wall. The president didn't get the cuts he wanted either for the NIH and Planned Parenthood. So the president, how is he feeling about this deal. What does it mean to the state of play in D.C.?
Let's discuss this and talk of a health care bill vote with Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio, a founding member of the House Freedom Caucus. Good to have you on the set.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: Good to be with your Chris.
CUOMO: So how do you feel about this CR? Do you like what's in it, what's not in it?
JORDAN: I mean, look, money goes to Planned Parenthood, as you said. Money continues to go to sanctuary cities but no money for the border wall. I think you're going to see a lot of conservatives be against this plan this week.
CUOMO: How'd it happen?
JORDAN: Why did we -- why did we last fall do a short-term spending bill if we weren't going to actually fight for the things we told the voters we were going to fight for?
So we'd have been, I mean if this is the deal we're going to get, it seems to me we should have just did the bill for the whole year. But we specifically held the vote for -- we did a short-term spending bill for this time so that when Republicans controlled the government, we could actually do the things we campaigned on.
This bill doesn't seem to do that. Plus, it maintains, Chris, this idea that, for every new dollar you spend in defense money, you've got to give the Democrats more money in non-defense. That's, again, not what we campaigned on.
So I'm disappointed. We'll see how it plays out this week. But I think you're going to see conservatives have some real concerns with this legislation.
CUOMO: So how did it happen? You do see the Democrats coming out and hailing it. You did not hear from the Republicans yet, McConnell or Ryan. So what happened?
JORDAN: Yes, I wish -- I wish we'd have pushed harder on the issues I just talked about. I really do.
CUOMO: Why didn't you?
JORDAN: I think the American people -- well, I mean there's always this shut-down concern. I do feel that the White House feels like they can do some good things on the border without the specific funding for the wall. I've talked to Budget Director Mulvaney about that issue in particular. And there is another budget in the whole appropriation process for fiscal 2018 coming up.
[07:25:04] But we should have fought now, because that's again -- I always say this. I've said this on your show before. We make this job too complicated. Our job is to do what we told the voters we were going to do. We told them we had did a short-term spending bill that was going to come due at the end of April so that we could fight on these very issues, and now it looks like we're not going to do that.
I think that's a problem.
CUOMO: So you're not going to vote for this?
JORDAN: I don't think I'll be voting for it. I think there will be a lot of conservatives who have problems with -- with the legislation.
CUOMO: Now how about the health care bill? Do you think you get a vote this week?
JORDAN: I do. I feel -- look, I feel this is a pretty darned good bill that we made better because we engaged in this debate. I think that the tax increases are gone right away; the Obamacare tax increases are now gone right away in this bill. Able-bodied adults in the Medicaid expansion population, there's now a work-requirement for them. And this waiver option that states can seek to get out from under those -- those key Obamacare regulations that are driving up premiums for middle-class families.
I think when you look at those; this is the best bill we could get out of the House. Frankly, we should be clear, this is -- this is not repeal of Obamacare. If it was repeal, you wouldn't -- you wouldn't need the option for -- for a waiver option for states to seek. So we have to be clear with the voters about that and continue to work on it.
CUOMO: The president was trying to say that pre-existing conditions stay in there as a hard fact.
CUOMO: That's not true in this current bill. You can't -- states can get out of it with a waiver...
CUOMO: ... under certain conditions. It's not an absolute.
JORDAN: States can get out of some of the regulations that are driving up premium costs. Pre-existing conditions, as the president mentioned, is specifically covered in the legislation...
JORDAN: And there's $125 billion of taxpayer money that goes to the states to make sure there's that safety net provision that we call high-risk pools available for states to use. They have to have that set up first before they can actually...
JORDAN: ... seek the waiver.
CUOMO: But it's not the exact same as it is right now. JORDAN: If you maintain continuous coverage, you can't lose coverage and coverage can't be jumped up to a higher rate if you have some -- some tough illness happen to you or your family. That is clear.
What we're trying to do is reward responsible behavior. You maintain coverage, that's the right thing to do. You don't get bumped up because something serious happens to you or your family.
CUOMO: Are you concerned that if you do in any way compromise the pre-existing conditions protection, you know, that health care companies have every reason they do to cut those people out immediately?
JORDAN: What I'm concerned is Republicans not doing what we told the American people. We won elections on 2010, 2014, 2016 on repealing Obamacare. This bill doesn't get all the way there, but it's a good step. And I think the best step, the best we can get out of the House right now.
What I'm concerned about is what Obamacare is doing to families, middle-class families right now who've seen their premiums go through the roof. If they can afford their premiums they can't afford their deductibles. So what I'm most concerned about is getting rid of Obamacare.
CUOMO: Isn't in true that in a lot of the places where, let's say Arizona, people like to cherry pick Arizona as a state. It's because they didn't expand Medicaid. If they had taken the expansion money, they would have covered a lot more of the people and had more choice in that market.
JORDAN: We expanded Medicaid in Ohio, and people are still seeing unbelievable increases in their premiums. I talked to them across the 4th District, the one I get the privilege of representing. Never forget what -- we started this debate 8-10 weeks ago. I think we talked about this on your show.
All the false information Americans were given about Obamacare. Like your plan, keep your plan. Like your doctor, keep your doctor. Premiums will decline, deductibles will decline. The website is going to work. The website is secure. We were told that these co-ops that formed were going to be wonderful. All the false statements that we were told about this thing.
Everyone knows we have to get rid of it. The American people elected us to get rid of it. So let's get about doing that. Let's do the best we can in the House. When it gets to the Senate, let's keep fighting to make sure we actually repeal it all.
CUOMO: Does it bother you that the rate of growth of health care costs is less now than it was before the ACA?
JORDAN: No one said it was perfect before. No one said that.
CUOMO: I'm saying you're trying to make it sound like it's a disaster; it's dying under its own weight. And these are exaggerations.
JORDAN: I'm just telling the truth. I mean all the -- Jonathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare according to "The New York Times" told us that they misled the American people when they sold this bill to the American folk.
CUOMO: You know he does not own that impression, right? He says that he misspoke; he didn't mean it that way.
JORDAN: I had it...
CUOMO: You've got him using his own words against him.
JORDAN: I had him...
CUOMO: We've had him on the show...
JORDAN: ... in Committee.
CUOMO: He does not say that was his intention.
JORDAN: Yes. I had him in committee. Well, "The New York Times" called him the architect of Obamacare.
JORDAN: And I know what he said and...
JORDAN: How they fooled the American people, misled the American people.
CUOMO: His intention was not to deceive the American people. The ACA was not a sham.
JORDAN: May not intended, but he sure did. And everything we were told about this law turned out to be false. So let's focus on make sure that we repeal this like we told the voters we were going to do.
CUOMO: Now you've seen at the town halls, though, it's not as simple as everybody wants repeal and replace. Right? You know the polls don't show that. You know there's been pushback at town halls.
Do you think you can tell the American people, "We're going to cover just as many or more as under the ACA right now. Don't worry about it"?
JORDAN: I believe that folks who have concerns with that will be fine. More importantly, those states that get the waiver, coupled with what we've -- what else we've done with this bill, on the high- risk pool, I believe premiums will begin to come down for middle-class families. And that should be the test.
Making sure you're providing the coverage for those really tough health care needs out there for families but also allowing states to get that waiver so that premiums can come down, deductibles come down. We can bring back affordable insurance. And hopefully, begin to bring back a market to health insurance, which -- to health care which we haven't seen in a long time.