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Tough Talk In Sicily; Manchester In Mourning; Manchester Bombing Overshadows G7 Meeting; World Leaders Brace For Debate At G7 Meeting; Trump Meets With G7 Leaders In Sicily; Trump Wraps Up First Presidential Trip Abroad In Sicily; Climate Change Hot Topic At G7 Meeting; Trump Weighs Paris Climate Accord; G7 Leaders Meet In Wake Of Manchester Bombing; Former U.K. Security Minister On Fighting Terror; Former Counterterrorism Minister On Protecting Nations; U.K. Resumes Intel Sharing With U.S.; A Novelist And His City; Trump's First Trip In Pictures; U.K. Police: "Enormous Progress In Manchester Probe; Howard Jacobson Reflects On Attack On His City; Jacobson: Manchester Attack "Particularly Cruel"; Jacobson: Bomber Came "From Within The Community"; Manchester-Born Author On Online Radicalization; Howard Jacobson: Music Is Manchester's Gift; Imagining The World Of One Manchester Family; Ariana Grande Says She Will Hold Benefit Concert In Manchester; One Family's Experience In Manchester. Aired 2:00- 2:00 p.m. ET
Aired May 26, 2017 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Here is a North America Newsroom with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight, tough talk in Sicily and Donald Trump attends his first G7 Summit. There was a common cause on tackling
terror, but divisions on climate change and trade. Britain's Foreign Minister for Security and Counterterrorism, Lord Admiral West, joins me.
Plus, the last victim of Manchester's 22 dead is named as police now say eight people are under arrest on charges of terrorism. One of Manchester's
favorite sons, the award-winning author Howard Jacobson on today's shocking reality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD JACOBSON, BRITISH NOVELIST AND JOURNALIST: This person hasn't flown in from somewhere to do; this person was living in Manchester, part of the
Manchester community. And that's what makes the malevolence of it - particularly striking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. The Manchester attack and the fight against
violent extremism dominate G7 talks in Italy today - where heads of the world's leading economies have gathered in Sicily for what one European
call "the most challenging G7" in years. After 22 of her own people were slaughtered in cold blood this week, the British Prime Minister, Theresa
May, is urging fellow leaders to once and for all counter online extremism - saying that the fight against ISIS is moving from the battlefield to the
The meetings follow hard on the heels of Thursday's NATO Summit in Brussels where the U.S. President Donald Trump failed, at least publicly, to endorse
Article 5: the alliances foundational pledge of mutual defense. Now, CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Sicily and he joins me now with an overview, a wrap up of
Donald Trump's European trip. Jeff, what was the main issue that they were discussing today?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Christiane. I mean, President Trump is taking a measure of these world
leaders, likewise, they're doing the same of him - so many new faces here at this club is exclusive G7 Summit here in Sicily. But one of the main
focuses, of course, is terrorism, fighting extremism. We saw all of the leaders come together and sign a statement of a unifying front against
extremism. But you know, really, it stops there. There are, you know, sidebar discussions of what can be done, but the issue of intelligence
sharing still so much of a delicate one between the United States and the British officials.
Theresa May, the British Prime Minister, spoke about this a short time ago. Once again, she said the sharing has resumed between the U.S. and the
British officials here, but it definitely is something that caused severe attention. But we're also seeing President Trump not mentioning one thing,
and that is Russia. He's clearly trying to avoid the controversy that's, you know, consuming his White House back in Washington. But by not talking
about Russia or the aggression at all, some members here quietly are wondering if he has the ability or interest in standing up to the Russian
aggression here. So, I think to go away from this - that is a central takeaway question here if this President, this new American President on
this stage, has the ability to do that.
AMANPOUR: And finally, we're hearing that a lot, in fact, all the G7 leaders urge President Trump to keep the United States in the climate
Paris, of course. And actually, from his own team, there's a lot of tweeting going on saying that he came here to get smarter, to listen, he
heard them out on the climate pleas. What can you tell us about that?
ZELENY: That is so interesting, Christiane. This is a President who has talked about flexibility being a virtue. And it does look like on this
issue of climate change and the Paris climate accords, he could indeed be flexibility. And his own advisers, just a few moments ago, in a briefing
with reporters said that indeed the President is learning and evolving on this issue. You know, this was a top issue as well at the Vatican earlier
this week when he met with Pope Francis who urged him to stay in this climate accord. So, that will be a central decision discussion for this
Who will he listen to? Some of his own advisers like Steve Bannon, and the arrest who have been urging him to pull out of this agreement, or will he
listen to, you know, his counterparts here urging him to stay in. And we do know by watching him as we sort of get a sense of his leadership style,
he often listens to the last person he heard from. So, if that is his takeaway message here, you know, he may stay in, but so unpredictable in
terms of what he will do in Paris, Christiane.
[14:05:04] AMANPOUR: Jeff, thank you very much. And as you say, there's obviously a robust debate on that inside the White House as well. Thanks
for joining us from Sicily. And now, I'm joined here in the studio by someone who's had first-hand experience defending Britain from external
threats. Lord Alan West was the Minister for Security and Counterterrorism under the former British Prime Minister, Gordan Brown, and he was also the
Chief of the Naval Staff. Welcome to the program.
LORD ALAN WEST, FORMER SECURITY AND COUNTERTERRORISM MINISTER: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Theresa May talked about the evolving ISIS threat from the battlefield to online. Also saying they're not disappearing; they are
evolving in their capabilities. From where you sit and where you sat, what can you talk about how the best way to counter that is now, in view
obviously of what happened in Manchester?
WEST: Well, she's absolutely right. And there was a need for military action to stop Daesh or so-called ISIL they have established - a caliphate,
which they were trying to be in Iraq and Syria, and military that's being primed down. Buy Daesh have always been much clever and cuter at working
online; much better than Al Qaeda, now that I've held school. Someone said, in fact, the Daesh is the millenniums - millennials; they're very
cute on that. And there's a constant, constant flow of material on the various Web sites - saying, look, come and go out and kill someone with a
knife or gun, a car, whatever it might be, join us.
AMANPOUR: How does one stop it, though?
WEST: Well, I do think that the - it's interesting, they've become internet providers of the big companies. I think they have been bad about
this. I mean, for example, to talk about encryption - and I quite like encryption because it means we can protect our own identity better. But
the big companies, they know - they can crack all the encryption. They might say that they give - encryption is known to get through at all; they
can get back into it.
You know, and they regularly read our e-mails. That's why - you know, that pops things about sales of yachts, if you're interested in yachts; they're
reading your e-mails. And I think they could do a lot more - they have started doing stuff about pedophilia, but I think they could do a lot more.
I think he's absolutely right that the G7 nation says this.
AMANPOUR: And looking at what we're hearing from the counterterrorism officials at the Metropolitan police et cetera, they've got eight people in
custody on terror charges now in Manchester or in that area, and they say that it's a wide network. What are you hearing between the lines? What
has got your counterterrorism antenna up?
WEST: Well, they mentioned there's a conspiracy. I mean, what actually, I find fascinating - this is clearly a big, a big sort of plot. And
normally, the big plots we're able to get the wind of in advance because we are so good, you know, with GCHQ and NSA, and nearly all the plots we stop,
and we've stopped constantly in stopping plots. Because we get winds of it and we get wind of ones where people are talking to each other. So, I'm
surprised we got no wind of this at all; I'm surprised. Now, it's clearly unraveling - it is quite a big deal, and to have gone to critical and kept
to critical, there must be information they Joint Terrorist Center, the JTEX Center in (INAUDIBLE) this has saying, that something is likely to
AMANPOUR: So, they're at the critical threat level, and you say that they're remaining there, obviously. What do you make of the brew-ha-ha,
really, the breakdown of confidentiality between the U.K. and the United States on this critical operational intelligence?
WEST: Well, I think that's fascinating. And of course, it was mentioned apparently in the March at the G7. There's no doubt that in the
intelligence world - I've been involved in that a lot when you share intelligence with someone, there is an unwritten rule that you don't
release any of that without just checking with them first. Equally, we - for some years now, anything to do with terrorist attacks, we try to share
it quickly with people, even those normally you don't have a close link with. Well, we have an immensely close link with America, and we're joined
at the hip. You know, NSA and GCHQ are almost the same organization. But I think this was a law, a law thing, it probably went into the FBI, maybe
some of the law agency.
AMANPOUR: She mentioned, the Prime Minister mentioned the FBI. She outed the FBI today.
WEST: And in America, you know better than I do, you have certain rules about showing evidence and things like this. And I think that has been a
problem - and I hope this - well, it looks as though we got over that. But when it's been the other way around, we have got an immense trouble in this
country when in a court of law we have to - we were pushed to show some evidence that came from American intelligence. My goodness me, we've got
our legs chopped off. So, it's to go both ways.
AMANPOUR: Both ways, indeed. I want to ask you for some of the things that have just happened in Europe at these meetings. Briefly, Donald Trump
did not give the Europeans what they wanted publicly, an endorsement of article 5 and to promise to protect Europe in case of any threat.
WEST: I find that extraordinary because the only time Article 5 has ever been called was really the Europeans in support of the U.S. post 9/11. And
I found it extraordinary he hasn't done that. And I also find it surprising - the greatest existential threat to Europe - the terrorist
threat I mean that lots been going on, but it's not existential. The greatest existential there is Putin. Not to mention Putin, when, you know,
what's going on in the Ukraine, what's happening - and pressure on the Baltic States, lots of military operations against nuclear submarines and
the air, the taking down of a French media station. Not mentioning Putin, I find extraordinary.
[14:10:25] AMANPOUR: Well, he's in deep trouble, obviously, under all these special councils at home, so maybe that's one reason. But give me
your best assessment - obviously, it's an existential threat and others have called it that. How does one defend against that? Against this kind
of war by alternative means?
WEST: Well, I think one has to show that one is robust - and I mean, Putin is a revisionist, he believes in spheres of interest, he's quite the old-
fashioned in that way. He understands hard power, he understands money, and I think we have to show that we are going to robust and stand up for
this. I mean, you know, we mustn't allow - a state should not be allowed to attack another state's media. And I think we have to be robust in our
response. He understands when people stand up. If you don't, he'll keep pushing and keep pushing, and I think we need to do that.
The other thing I would love to mention is the fact that these people involved in these attacks are saying with the man who attacked parliament.
Some of these are very damaged individuals, they're petty criminals, they take drugs, they've done extraordinary things in their lives, and they then
they lock into this sort of Daesh, sort of narrative, but they're not actually being controlled by Daesh. The other thing I was shocked to find,
so of them are so deep into hard lined pornographies - it's going extraordinarily. You know, there are these Islamist and this - so they are
damaged and extorting individuals, I think
AMANPOUR: And I think that exactly is the whole new wave of these people. Admiral Lord West, thank you very indeed for talking to us tonight.
WEST: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And when we come back, we'll hear a different side of Manchester from native son and prize-winning novelist: Howard Jacobson. But first,
President Trump's first foreign trip in pictures; now right off the bat, breaking the internet was this odd shot in Saudi Arabia where King Salman,
Egypt's President, Trump clung to an illuminated globe. Then to the Vatican, where a smiling Pope presented a bemused President with his
encyclical on climate. But this image from NATO H.Q. in Brussels really went viral. What was President Trump thinking as he anxiously pushed
passed the Prime Minister of Montenegro for a front row pew?
While a confident new French President Emmanuel Macron walked up, slowly there he was, and swerved over to the German Chancellor Angela Merkel,
warmly embracing her and his European allies before making it over to Trump at last. Could that have been payback for Trump support of his opponent,
Marine Le Pen? But our favorite picture of the week is this one: the spouses, all the wives joined by just one husband. The gay partner of the
Luxembourg Prime Minister, no less. There were lots of firsts.
[14:15:26] AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. British police and counterterrorism officials say they are making important progress in the
push to contain the terrorist cell that they believe is behind the Manchester attack. Police say eight people are in custody in connection
with the blast. And the last victim to be named, 15-year-old, Meghan Hurly from Liverpool. Her high school held a vigil for her. After all, the
world's attention has been on Manchester, and we wanted to learn more about the city itself with one of its favorite sons. The Booker Prize-winning,
all for Howard Jacobson, he was born there, and he joined me here to talk about his city.
AMANPOUR: Howard Jacobson, welcome to the program. This has been a terrible week for everybody, but probably particularly for Manchester
natives like yourself.
JACOBSON: It's been a most terrible week for the poor people who were affected: the parents of children, the children themselves. It's just
absolutely monstrous. It would be monstrous anywhere. But there's something about the town of Manchester. Because I suppose it's so - it
opens itself to stuff. It's a town of venues, studio, and entertainment. It's got football grounds. It's got you on music venues. It's got clubs.
Manchester has a gay pride week. It's got everywhere and everything in it and it prides itself. And it kinds of open to school that-
AMANPOUR: And it's a young people's city.
JACOBSON: Yes. You know, earlier this week you started the week - we all did with this terrible attack. And you wrote in the New York Times, any
attack on the innocent, whatever the location, whatever the time, and whatever the ideology it serves offends us to our very souls.
JACOBSON: Yes. Kids and they'd been to a pop concert. And you know, it just - it's unbearable. And balloons have been released. It's every kind
of - it's every image of vulnerability to have. So, if terrorism really means to strike us where we expect it least, and where we feel it most,
then you know, this is - it's a good one, this one. It's particularly, particularly cruel. And I think people have responded, I think there's
been a feeling all week that this is - we're always horrified, but this is a, you know, a horror piled upon a horror.
AMANPOUR: I mean, the story is that - I was told, you know, people flinging their houses open, giving a cup of tea, hotels in the immediate
aftermath, the takeaways, the taxis, everybody who just poured in for free just to help, the homeless even.
JACOBSON: Yes. Yes, I can believe that. And you mentioned the taxis; my dad drove a black taxi in Manchester. And I know that you know, he's not
alive now, but had he been, he'd have been there and he's been gathering everybody because he sort of saw that was his job. You know, he drove his
taxi, and wherever he could help, he'd stop and he would help - it's what Manchester people are like. But the other thing that they've to face is
that the horrible thing that's happened has also come from within that community.
This person hasn't flown in from somewhere to do it. This person was living in Manchester, part of the Manchester community, and that's what
makes the malevolence of it particularly striking, and worrying so much. It's got to deal with the fact - we'll, look, we've all got to deal with
the fact that we have within our communities, ideologies, and people who practice those ideologies who mean us the greatest harm. The problem is,
the problem is that however well-integrated we are, there will always be susceptible young men, always. And there were stories these susceptible
young men read.
AMANPOUR: And they are young men.
JACOBSON: They are young men.
AMANPOUR: And they're not reading Howard Jacobson, or Anthony Burgess, or listening to Oasis, or the other great cultural icons that have come out of
your city. They're going online and reading rubbish and getting radicalized.
JACOBSON: Yes. And the online is a real problem. I mean, I think if we are to do anything about this - you know the terrible thing is we say all
these things; we say how brave Manchester is. We say we're not going to bend. A lot of this starts to be slightly offensive; if I was one of the
parents of these children, I would say, or any of the families, I would say please don't tell me what kind of spirit is guiding me now.
I'll take my own time. I might be full of hate and I will be if I want to be, and I might never mend, I might never heal. But when we do make those
statements about what the city is like, we ignore the fact that there are people who don't feel those things, who feel quite differently, and are at
home reading these terrible, terrible stories; something is brewing within our communities, and worst of all, online.
The stuff that they can get - what are we going to do about Facebook, who said it's policing it? I don't know whether we can shut Facebook down.
And I do not want to sound like a new liberal voice of censorship, but there are moments when we must wonder if these sites cannot police
themselves if these sites are an open platform. This is a monstrous thing, and we don't do anything about that when we got how Manchester will be, and
how well Manchester, cope with it all. We have a problem here.
[14:20:23] AMANPOUR: I just want to go back to something that you wrote, and this is specific to Manchester and the culture. "When I was growing up
there, those who weren't aspiring musicians themselves lived next door to someone who was." And yet, it was a concert that was attacked.
JACOBSON: That's what's sort of particularly poignant about the thing. This was its - Manchester's particularly gifted over the last 20 years -
has been its music making. And I suppose that's why we feel it's right to where the city - it was hit, it was hit where it lives. And no doubt,
quite deliberately so.
AMANPOUR: To what do you attribute its incredible music?
JACOBSON: It's funny that because - I mean, it's not a lyrical place. You go to Manchester, and it looks, you know, it looks a little bit hard done
by; it looks like a city past its best until you see where to look. And growing up in Manchester, we always felt the sky is too close to us. Maybe
that thing that made us the sort of a doer, and kind of hardened a bit; hardened against a climate, it gave us that kind of - gave us a certain
practical whit. So, it made us good lyricist. Well, you wouldn't have expected that we could also write beautiful tunes and it's a mongrel city,
it's a home to Jews, it's been a home to Muslims. It is this - it's all embracing mongrel, funny about itself. And that gave it - that it's got a
creative, a real creative energy.
AMANPOUR: And you certainly have brought that energy to this table. Thank you.
JACOBSON: Thank you. Good to talk to you.
AMANPOUR: And when we come back, we like to imagine many of the good things in our world each day. Manchester makes that hard this week. But
we've just learned one piece of good news: the singer Ariana Grande who's obviously, whose concert it was where this happened on Monday night has
just tweeted that she is going to come back to Manchester and she'll do a benefit concert for the victims and for their families. Next, we imagine
the world of one of those stricken families.
AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, we imagine 48 hours in Manchester. The week began with a Monday morning like any other, only to be torn apart on
Monday night by a terror attack at the Ariana Grande concert. The whole country was heartbroken at the shocking slaughter of so many children,
young people, and yes, parents. As word of the blast started to spread, desperate families tried to find their missing children. Like 15-year-old,
Olivia Campbell, whose parents took to social media and the airwaves, and they gave this tragic interview to CNN after hours of fruitless searching.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:25:19] CHARLOTTE CAMPBELL, MOTHER OF THE VICTIM: Olivia is just a bubbly child, cheeky as anything. If you're feeling down, she'll make you
laugh. If she can't make you laugh, she'll hook you until you're smiling again. She was waiting for Ariana to come on, and she was so happy, and
she thanked me and said she loved me. And that was the last I heard from her.
PAUL HODGSON, STEPFATHER OF THE VICTIM: All we ask is if anybody were sharing pictures - several pictures out there now of her, that people carry
on sharing. I know it might be getting boring for people or it might be getting repetition. But we've got just one person that accidentally sees
it, and that one person sees her, can we get her back - that's all we ask. We don't want much.
CAMPBELL: I love her so much. And I want her home. I need her home. She's my baby. And I miss her so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: But the very next day, the Campbells had to face and share the awful truth that Olivia had been found, dead. But only hours later, this
same family came to a vigil for all 22 victims, and 66 injured, and all the families to thank everyone for their support and to speak of unity in the
face of the worst kind of atrocity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL: This is such a hard time for us. I had to come. I didn't know what to do. I don't know where to be, as a family we're united, we're
standing strong. I ask our friends, strangers, relatives to do the same. Please stay together. Don't let this beat any of us, please. Don't let my
daughter be a victim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:27:17] AMANPOUR: A portrait of unbearable grief, yet an example of extraordinary courage. As Manchester stood up for each other, the world
stood with them. And that's it for our program tonight. Remember, you can always listen to our podcast. You can see us online at amanpour.com, and
you can follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.