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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

O.J. Simpson up for Parole; Urgent Manhunt; Caught on Camera; Frightening Encounter; Beyond Reasonable Doubt; Deadly Distraction?; CNN Heroes; Heroic Deed. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 20, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): O.J. Simpson, from American hero...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe that O.J. Simpson is in that car.

BANFIELD: ... to American villain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You either thought he was guilty, or you thought he was, you know, the victim of racist police and incompetent prosecution.

BANFIELD: The trial of the century, for murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, in the above-entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.

BANFIELD: The trial years later for robbery and kidnapping. But now is O.J. set to walk free again?

O.J. SIMPSON: I`m sorry. I`m sorry for all of it!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did find three videos (INAUDIBLE) recorded of my daughter.

BANFIELD: If you squint, you can see him perched behind the trash can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was nervous. I was -- I was very scared.

BANFIELD: A grown man videotaping a very little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man he handed over his phone (INAUDIBLE)

BANFIELD: It happened at the zoo. And creepy as it was, he didn`t break the law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was nothing that was posted. He didn`t utilize it for any means.

BANFIELD: But while cops can`t arrest him, the zoo sure has a plan.

A bus driver busy sexting as a student slowly dies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn`t it true when you found Paul Lee (ph), he was laying on his stomach with vomit all around him?

BANFIELD: Their special needs son forgotten on a scorching hot bus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They kill my son. Technically (ph), they kill my son.

BANFIELD: That driver under oath, and on tape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember making sexual innuendoes in the texts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That part I do remember, yes.

BANFIELD: How many millions could ever right this wrong?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My boy is a very, very precious boy.

A burglar caught red-handed. A home security cam catches this guy breaking in and making himself at home, helping himself to clothes and even a beer.

Neighbors to the rescue with a little vigilante justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I went to our garage, my husband and I, and we got two pistols.

BANFIELD: Two guns, plenty of guts, and a handy roll of duct tape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got his arms and his feet duct taped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

Prisoner number 1027820 is counting down the days, maybe even marking them off on his cell wall, hoping and praying that October gets here soon

because 33 years feels exceedingly long when you are cooped up inside the Department of Corrections in Nevada and your name is O.J. Simpson.

But O.J. got some news today that looked like a floodlight at the end of his suffocating tunnel. The board of parole is going to give him a shot, a

shot at getting out. And they`re making that decision one month from today.

Make no mistake, when it comes to trials on the TV, Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias have nothing on O.J. Simpson. And we remain transfixed by the

spectacle 20 years later. There`s been an award-winning miniseries called "The People Versus O.J. Simpson," dozens of documentaries, including the

Oscar winner, "O.J.: Made in America" on ESPN.

But what is it about O.J.? Yes, he was a college football star, a Heisman trophy winner, an NFL legend and a TV celebrity. Yes, there was that

infamous white Bronco chase just days after his ex-wife and her friend were butchered outside of her home, the blood trail leading right back to O.J.,

and O.J. despondent in the back of that Bronco, gun to his head.

There was that drama inside the L.A. courtroom with hundreds of millions of views, the dream team that convinced the jurors that O.J. Simpson was not

guilty of killing Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, a civil jury who later disagreed and ordered Simpson to pay more than $33 million in damages.

And then there was O.J. turning his nose up at that judgment, refusing to pay, instead playing golf, playing a lot of golf and signing a lot of

autographs, you know, to pay the bills, to get by.

But it was those souvenirs that would cost him, ultimately would put him in jail when nothing else could. Back in 2008, O.J. was convicted of armed

robbery and kidnapping for stealing those sports souvenirs from dealers that he knew and for using a gun to do it. His sentence, 33 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:08]SIMPSON: So I`m sorry. I`m sorry for all of it. But all the other guys except Mr. Stewart volunteered. They wanted to go. Mr. Stewart

is the only person that I asked, would he come to help me. All the rest of them, when they found out, they volunteered. Come on, let us go. One of

them wanted to be the security guy. He claimed he was a security guy. But I didn`t mean to hurt anybody, and I didn`t mean to steal from anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ever since that speech, O.J. has been waiting for a chance to be sprung, and today he moved one step closer to that goal. The Nevada

Department of Corrections set July the 20th for his D-day, decision day, when the commissioners will decide if O.J. will, in fact, get paroled. His

family says they`re hopeful he`ll get out.

But this man has left a cast of characters in his wake, including famed prosecutor Marcia Clark, who said this to ESPN Films in their documentary

"O.J. Made in America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCIA CLARK, O.J. PROSECUTOR: Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? You just walked away from a double murder, and you do this?

Thomas Riccio, their star witness, one of my favorite people ever. I was in Las Vegas, and I was reporting for "Entertainment Tonight" about the

trial, such a weird confluence of events that just -- how does this happen?

So I was watching the preliminary hearing. And at lunch break, we were in the cafeteria, and he showed up there. It`s O.J. and walked by. Mr.

Simpson, Ms. Clark. It was weird.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There was also Carl Douglas, who was on O.J.`s dream team, defended him to the end in his murder trial and then told ESPN he was

crestfallen. But why? What happened in Vegas?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARL DOUGLAS, O.J. ATTORNEY: I was heartbroken by it. O.J., what were you thinking? What were you thinking?

KIM GOLDMAN, RON GOLDMAN`S SISTER: He was acting in an arrogant fashion, the same way that he did the night that he killed Ron and Nicole. He said

it in court. He wanted what was his. He went back to get it the same night that he killed Ron and Nicole. I feel very proud of my father and I

and our family for sticking with our commitment to Ron to honor his memory and to keep pursuing him. The "If I Did It" book I think pushed him right

over the edge. I`m very proud of our efforts for taking that book back and for turning his words around on him (INAUDIBLE) good day for our family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Obviously, that`s the family of Ron Goldman, Kim the sister, Fred the dad. O.J.`s Nevada conviction was music to their ears.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED GOLDMAN, RON GOLDMAN`S FATHER: There was never closure. Ron is always gone. And what we have is satisfaction that this monster is where

he belongs, behind bars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yale Galanter defended O.J. Simpson. He is the form attorney for O.J. We covered you, Yale, when you did that trial in Vegas, live from

Aspen, Colorado, tonight. Nice to see you again, Yale. It`s been a couple of years.

YALE GALANTER, SIMPSON`S FORMER ATTORNEY: Good to see you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Every so often, we check in with some comings and goings from Vegas. And now the big possible going. So I`ve got to ask you, do you

think O.J. Simpson should get paroled?

GALANTER: Oh, 100 percent. Parole in Nevada is all about how you behave in prison. The nine-year mark is the earliest he could get out. By all

accounts, he has been a model prisoner. I have no doubt that on July 20th, the parole board will grant him parole, as they did on his earlier charges.

BANFIELD: Yale, the point system -- the model prisoner, the age of the prisoner, the crime that was committed, the behavior behind bars -- I`ve

got a huge list of about 11 different things -- employment history, is he an active gang member. Clearly, no. His disciplinary conduct, his current

custody level -- I think, yes, we can all agree, as you said, he`s going to score very, very well when it comes to that 11-point system.

But then it comes down to the decision. And those commissioners, they can decide against it. They don`t have to go with the point system. They can

sort of side with society if they feel that society is just not ready. Do you think that might play in?

GALANTER: I don`t. I have full faith in the parole board. It`s a system that`s set up to keep prisoners in line and make them behave, to make

people do their time and do it respectfully, and within the bounds of the law. And by all accounts, O.J.`s done that, so he deserves this reward.

What he did in the past, what people`s opinions are about O.J. Simpson, should play no part in this at all.

[20:10:08]BANFIELD: OK. So I`m about to suggest apples and crabapples. But I`m going to do it. And it`s still on that same vein of these

commissioners. There will be seven, and four of them have to decide that he can get paroled. I mean, literally, it`s an up-down vote, right?

When it came to Mark David Chapman, the killer of John Lennon -- and again, we`re not talking about O.J. as a killer here, we`re talking about him as a

robber and as a kidnapper. But when it came to Mark David Chapman after decades, those parole board members said, He meets all the criteria. He`s

been a model prisoner. But we just don`t feel it`s right.

Why do you think that kind of sense might not apply in O.J.`s case?

GALANTER: Well, I mean, I`ll use one of your analogies. It really is apples and oranges. I mean, O.J. Simpson was convicted of taking back his

own property. Nevada`s one of the only states in the union where that`s illegal.

Now, we can debate the legalese of it and whether he was smart or stupid, and you know, whether he should have done it or he did do it and all of the

things that came out at the trial. But this is really based on, How did you behave, are you a danger to the community, have you served your time,

are you going to recommit this crime?

BANFIELD: Sure.

GALANTER: And the answer to all those issues is no.

BANFIELD: So it`s important to add the gun factor in there, as well.

GALANTER: (INAUDIBLE) Ashleigh, his punishment is and should be over.

BANFIELD: OK.

GALANTER: It`s enough.

BANFIELD: So I want to play a little bit more about Marcia Clark because it does speak to that gun issue. I mean, yes, he was taking his own stuff

back. Yes, if he`d just shown up and yelled at them and taken his stuff back, this wouldn`t have happened. But there was that gun, and that`s what

Marcia Clark really pointed out to ESPN Films in the documentary "O.J.: Made in America." Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARK: The guns are the thing about it. They put guns to people`s heads. Someone could have died there. The legal elements of the case were there.

Did the jury hammer him because of the murder trial? Wouldn`t surprise me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Yale, also to that documentary, to "O.J.: Made in America," Carl Douglas, his defender in the murder trial -- he spoke to the

coincidences, the 33 years and the $33 million judgment. And Carl had a specific opinion about that. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARL DOUGLAS, SIMPSON MURDER TRIAL ATTORNEY: The 33-year sentence reflecting the $33 million in the civil verdict was no coincidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That concludes today`s sentencing.

DOUGLAS: And that was the fifth quarter. They got back at O.J. for winning our case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, judge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yale, is that true? Is that what you believe?

GALANTER: No. You know, Judge Glass (ph) listened dutifully to the case, presided over the case and really cut him a break in sentencing. So you

know, all of these theories about how the stars are aligning with numbers, and 33 years, and he`s -- I mean, I just don`t believe any of it.

I think that he`s getting out as soon as he possibly can get out. I think that Judge Glass recognized everything that was going on in this trial, in

the case, and sentenced him accordingly.

BANFIELD: But 33 years, $33 million, the sentence, you know, handed down 13 years to the day of the acquittal. I mean, everybody made a lot of hay

about that. And in fact, the documentary makers went back to one of the jurors in O.J.`s case, and they got some astounding comments from one of

these jurors. Her name is Carrie Bess. She was juror number nine in the criminal trial. And listen, hats off to the ESPN Films guys. But in

"O.J.: Made in America," she admitted that the not guilty verdict was payback for how African-Americans have been treated in L.A. Have a listen

to how she put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that there are members of the jury that voted to acquit O.J. because of Rodney King?

CARRIE BESS, MURDER TRIAL JUROR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do?

BESS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many do you think felt that way?

BESS: Oh, probably 90 percent of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 90 percent? Did you feel that way?

BESS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was payback.

BESS: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think that`s right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yale, she changed her tune significantly after what happened in Vegas. I want you to listen to juror number nine again, Carrie Bess, as

she reflected on her verdict, and then how O.J. behaved after. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:15:08]BESS: I voted no then. And he`s a stupid ass to go out there and get into some more (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You regret it.

BESS: Somewhat. But deep in my heart, I done what I felt was right at that time. Back then, we took care of it. Now you`re on your own

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yale, she is crystal clear about those jurors. And I just wonder if commissioners may feel like payback. Is that possible?

GALANTER: Ashleigh, anything`s possible. I just don`t see it. I mean, I don`t know why they would have paroled him on his other charges and not

parole him here. Besides the fact that it sets a very bad precedent, if they`re not going to follow the rules for O.J., what would make other

prisoners behave, be model prisoners and incite them to follow all the rules while they`re in prison? I mean, that`s what this parole system is

all about. You know, it`s not about the past. It`s not about public opinion. It`s not about how you feel. It`s about whether or not you

follow the rules. And by all accounts, he`s done that.

BANFIELD: I`m going to make a firm booking with you tonight, July 20th. Will you join me?

GALANTER: Absolutely, Ashleigh. Anything.

BANFIELD: Good to see you again, Yale. Always like (INAUDIBLE)

GALANTER: Good to see you, too.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

There were several men with O.J. Simpson when he broke into that Vegas hotel room to retrieve his stuff, one of them was the key to his

conviction, as he explained to ESPN Films in that documentary, "O.J.: Made in America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS RICCIO, ORCHESTRATED O.J. STING: (INAUDIBLE) rat on? Did I rat out anybody here? (INAUDIBLE) ratted on. Not that I have anything against

ratting. If it would help the world, I`ll rat. But I didn`t rat on anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The man who arguably brought down O.J. Simpson, Thomas Riccio, is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:18]BANFIELD: Countdown to July 20th. That`s when O.J. Simpson might just be planning for his next tee time. In one month, Nevada might

just decide to spring O.J. from prison, grant him parole this fall after serving 9 of his 33-year sentence for kidnapping and robbery.

The guy he robbed was a sports memorabilia dealer, and he knew O.J. well. But he was none too pleased when O.J. showed up at his hotel room and

pulled a gun on him. Here`s what Bruce Fromong said about the night that landed O.J. in jail. Bruce was interviewed by ESPN Films Oscar-winning

documentary "O.J.: Made in America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE FROMONG, MEMORABILIA DEALER: I`m on the phone talking. The door opens. Very quickly. I`m seeing O.J. It had been quite a while since I`d

seen O.J. It had always been friendly. But this guy had a face on him that was just a rage. He hits me in the shoulder and knocked me backwards

against a chair. And he put the gun in my face. You know, had had a gangster style. He took my phone. I had just gotten it. And I said,

O.J., don`t take my phone. I just got it. And he takes it. He says, I`ll leave it at the desk (INAUDIBLE)

I went up to the front desk and I said, I need security. I was just robbed by O.J. Simpson. And they started laughing.

911 OPERATOR: 911 emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just robbed by O.J. Simpson and four other black mean at gunpoint.

FROMONG: O.J. got duped by Tom Riccio. Tom Riccio lied to O.J. Simpson. He said, I know someone that`s got thousands of pieces of your memorabilia.

He set O.J. Simpson up. Oh, yes, Tom Riccio is a rat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now, the man Fromong called a rat, other people call a hero, Tom Riccio, live from Los Angeles. Tom, thanks for being a guest

tonight. Really appreciate it. What are you, are you a hero or are you a rat?

RICCIO: You know, neither. I mean, they contacted me, told me they had his stuff. I knew O.J. I contacted him. O.J. confirmed the stuff was

missing. O.J. came up with the idea to say there was a buyer in the room and for him to come in.

And he said, basically that -- you know, that when they saw him, they would apologize and give him his stuff back. And it`s ironic because that`s

exactly what happened.

He came in the room, started yelling, Hey, this is my stuff. They`re all, like, Sorry, O.J., Mike took it, one of his agents. And they were

apologizing. And then strange as this sounds, from how great it was going from his perspective, they turned it into an armed robbery. They pulled

out guns and started taking people`s phones and everything else.

BANFIELD: That`s where, Tom, it went sideways. So in retrospect, from that moment, when the guns came out, the commands were yelled, Nobody leave

this, I think, f`ing room, all the way through to the trial and the sentencing, and nine years later that O.J.`s been behind bars. Do you have

any regrets?

RICCIO: Regrets for what? Again, I mean, I did signings with O.J. It`s funny, in the beginning of the show, you were, like, From hero to villain.

And it`s certainly profound because when I was a little boy playing football in the back yard, you had the ball, you were O.J. People don`t

realize that (INAUDIBLE) understand he was a hero. And a lot of people my age remember him as a hero.

Today, most people know him as a -- you know, whatever, accused of murder, things like that. I mean, I did signings with him based on his hero

status, based on his Heisman trophy. And he was always nice to me and my family. As far as I know, he`s never said anything bad about me or my

family, and he knows what happened.

[20:25:10]And you know, these guys -- Bruce Fromong calling me a rat, who was right in front of me in the room, was calling the police. You know,

and he`s the guy who had the stolen stuff. So (INAUDIBLE) all his friends ran to make deals to the DA and everything else.

I mean, I -- when they came to me, I told them I would not do a deal to testify for the prosecutors or for the defense. If you want the truth,

then I`m your man. And...

BANFIELD: Well, I`ll tell you what...

RICCIO: ... you know, I had -- and I testified to the truth.

BANFIELD: Marcia Clark says you are her hero. She was thrilled to see...

RICCIO: That`s really nice.

BANFIELD: ... O.J. behind bars.

RICCIO: When I met her, she was really nice to me, too. Yes, she (INAUDIBLE)

BANFIELD: Well, like I said, you did what she couldn`t. You helped to put him behind bars. So I do want to ask you this. You were friends with him.

You were friends with O.J. And then all of this happened. If, when he gets out, will you reach out to him?

RICCIO: Well, again, I wouldn`t say I was friends. We were very cordial. We did business relationships a few times. And he went out of his way to

sign extra things for me, and -- you know, I can`t really classify him as a friend, but from what I knew of him, he was very nice to me and my family.

And would I reach out to him again? I don`t think it would be in his best interests or mine, when you really think about it. It`s probably not. But

I wish him all the luck. I know he`ll never regain his hero status. But you know, at 70 years old, if he can just go back and just do something

good for people with the rest of his life, and for his family, that would be really cool. You know, that`s...

BANFIELD: I mean, listen, you`re right -- 70 years old. I think he`s turning 70, I think it`s next month, in fact.

(CROSSTALK)

RICCIO: None of us are getting any younger.

BANFIELD: Yes, well, and it`s a big part of his parole decision. Age is one of those 11 factors that they will take into account. What do you

want? Do you want to see him released? Do you want the parole board in one month to say, You know what? It is time. You`re out this fall.

RICCIO: What do I want? Does it really matter what I want? Again, people think I`m much closer than I was to this man. I`m not. I`m just a guy...

BANFIELD: Tom Riccio, you were the linchpin. You are the reason he`s behind bars. You set that sting up. But for you, O.J. would be playing

golf right now.

RICCIO: I had those recordings there for another reason, which we don`t have time to get into. There was a crazy stalker guy that basically came

to us, telling me he had the stolen stuff...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Do you want O.J. out? I`m really curious to get your feelings on this. You were at the center of it all.

RICCIO: I mean, listen, a lot of people talked about karma. Maybe he actually did commit these murders. I don`t know if he did or didn`t. But

for what he did that night -- and it went overboard. Of course, it`s proven that I knew nothing about these guns or anything. But if he knew

about guns being in the room and everything else, he needed to do some time. Nine years?

BANFIELD: Is nine years enough?

RICCIO: I mean, for what he did that night, I got to say it is.

BANFIELD: It is.

RICCIO: I`ve got to say it is. I...

BANFIELD: So with that -- with that answer, you probably could hear the clip that we played of that juror in the criminal trial, Carrie Bess, who

said that her decision back in the criminal trial essentially had nothing to do with the evidence, had nothing to do with whether he was really

guilty or not. It was payback. That`s what she said.

So what would you think if that`s the decision that came this time, and that whomever was part of that decision deep down decided on payback, not

necessarily on nine years is enough?

RICCIO: You know, it amazes me. Again, he was a hero when I was a kid. He`s probably one of the most despised people in the world right now. I

mean, I don`t know, Charles Manson? He`s right up there with anybody. And you know, people just don`t like the guy, and they have their reasons for

thinking he might have done what he did in the past.

And you know, I mean, that`s the only reason why he would stay in jail right now. And people say it all the time, karma`s a bitch. He got away

with it before. It`s on the tapes, my tapes, the police in Vegas saying, Hey, he got away with it in LA. He`s not going to get away with it here in

Vegas. We`re going to keep him down.

So would it shock me if they kept him down longer? It wouldn`t shock me.

BANFIELD: OK. So hard booking, Tom, July 20th. Hope you`re not busy. (INAUDIBLE) have you on the show.

RICCIO: Like I told your producers, if I`m still alive, I love you and you`ve been great to me. I`ll be here.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: You`ll be alive!

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) staying power! Tom Riccio, thanks so much for being on tonight.

RICCIO: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

RICCIO: Appreciate it. Bye-bye.

BANFIELD: I want to take you to Florida right now because there is a mystery deepening in that investigation into a deadly house fire and that

driverless boat running in circles that we told you about last night. Week-and-a-half ago, the remains of Chrissy Hughes, her 9-year-old son and

her sister were all found smoldering in those ruins.

[20:30:00] A 3,000 square foot home that had been torched, burned to the ground. Investigators now say that they know that Crissy and Linda were

shot before that home burned down. But that Crissy`s son was not shot. They have not named a suspect yet in this triple homicide. But they are

searching for Crissy`s husband, Tony, to find out what he might know about what happened.

Problem is, Tony Hughes is missing. His truck was found about 6 miles away from the crime scene at a curious boat launch, and his boat was found 7

miles offshore. His engine of his truck is running onshore, his boat is 7 miles out to sea, and it is running in circles with no one on board, and

that driverless boat is covered in blood. So the mystery continues.

A homeowner in New Mexico got a little help from his friends in catching an alleged burglar, who broke into his home. Micah Benson`s home surveillance

system alerted him when this happened. An intruder. Wandering around in his home. Helping himself to his clothes, and exploring the house. Even helping

himself to a beer from the fridge. What the suspect didn`t know though is that Michael called in the cavalry, his neighbors, as backup, and they

planned to catch the bad guy in the act. Even bringing out the guns to do so.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Micah and I went into the home with two of the loaded weapons. Mike announced himself to the perpetrator saying, I have a loaded

weapon. Get down on your hands and knees. At that time, I came up behind him and we got the individual on his hands and knees to lay down. We got

his arms and his feet duct taped. And then we picked him up, carried him out to the front yard, and waited for the police to show up.

BANFIELD: And there`s Mark Thompson all taped up, lying face down in the driveway. And that`s how the officers found him when they arrived. You can

see the body cam pictures. One of the neighbors. Thompson said that apparently he was trying to explain that he wasn`t trying to steal

anything, but that he just wanted to be friends. Tell it to the judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Zoos can be fun. Sometimes a little scary. But we don`t typically think of them as creepy. A mother outraged, though, when a guy started

recording her little daughter while she played in a bathing suit by a fountain. And the police say even though this looks awful, he wasn`t doing

anything wrong.

This Sunday, the HLN original series "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" takes a closer look at a 1986 cold case about the murder of a young bride.

Investigators always assumed they were looking for a man. But the DNA said something else. "Beyond Reasonable Doubt." Murdered Bride. Airs this Sunday

at 8:00 p.m.

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You probably have hundreds of pictures of your kids on your phone, maybe even thousands, and that is normal. What is not normal is for

other people to have pictures of your kids on their phones. Especially grown men. And in Palm Beach, Florida, one mom says a family trip to the

zoo resulted in just that. Creepy pictures of her toddler daughter on a grown man`s phone.

While taking a break from checking out the animals, the mom noticed that guy, right there. See him standing behind the garbage can in the circle

there? She said he was filming her 2-1/2-year-old who, by the way, she was just wearing a little bathing suit and playing in the water fountain. That

mom told CNN affiliate WPTV that her husband chased him down.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband went over to approach the man, and then the man took off. I was nervous. I was very scared.

BANFIELD: So the family told the zoo officials, and the man was actually found in another part of the zoo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man handed over his phone, shaking. My husband went through the man`s phone. He didn`t see any other photos of children,

but it does have a lot of selfies of the man. But he did find three videos that he recorded of my daughter. The zookeeper asked him why he was doing

it, and he said he wanted to record a kid being happy. We felt a little bad. You can`t take any risks these days. I mean, there`s no reason that

that guy should have been out there filming three videos of my daughter and hiding behind a garbage can.

BANFIELD: So the dad found those three videos and actually deleted them from that man`s phone and then called police. When the officers checked the

man`s criminal record, they found no history of any lewd acts. They couldn`t find a crime that he committed by just taking pictures in a public

place. And so no charges were filed. That man was allowed to leave the zoo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I`m now joined by a man named Gary, first name only. He`s the founder of the association for the sexual abuse prevention and he is also a

member of a group called virtuous pedophiles. He joins me from Tualatin (ph), Oregon. Gary, I want to get your reaction. Was it okay for that man

to stand behind a garbage can and take videos of a 3-year-old girl in a bathing suit playing in the water?

GARY, FOUNDER, ASSOCIATION FOR SEXUAL ABUSE PREVENTION: Well, in any case, he put himself at risk of being accused by taking videos of the child in a

public place, whether or not it was appropriate.

BANFIELD: Was it okay, though?

GARY: I think the story.

BANFIELD: I`m not saying it puts him at risk. I know that that put him on the radar. What I`m asking you is, should a grown man be taking videos of a

little girl in a bathing suit in a public place?

GARY: Well, the question is, do we really want to prohibit everybody from taking pictures in public? I don`t think so.

[20:40:00] BANFIELD: I don`t take pictures of little girls in bathing suits playing in water. I don`t. Should a grown man?

GARY: Obviously it was a foolish thing to do. But the story provides opportunity for a bigger discussion about a very serious problem.

Personally, I`ve been (inaudible) stating the facts. Five of my own siblings who were sexually abused as children.

And I suppose some people would say the statistics are exaggerated, but to me, any abuse is too much. So, I`m definitely opposed to children being

abused. But not every child molester is a pedophile. And there are many people with pedophilia who will never molest a child.

BANFIELD: I think you might have that the other way around. I think you meant to say not every pedophile is a child molester. Because if you

molested children, you are a pedophile. And I know that your position is, that you have this, and that you choose not to act on it. I understand that

position. But I am so curious about.

GARY: For clarification, many people who are not pedophiles who molest children, more than 50 percent do it for other reasons than the fact of a

sexual attraction to children. They may be in power and control, they may just not have opportunity with an adult. So it`s a situational offense. But

that is actually the majority of the offenders.

BANFIELD: Do you think it`s fair for the parents to be very, very angry? I mean, I think it would be very hard to pull that dad or that mom off that

man if they got their hands on him. Is that wrong, Gary?

GARY: No, certainly, I understand the anger. The deal is that hatred, vitriolic hatred and threatening to kill somebody does not solve the

problem. It does not protect children. It only makes it worse because it drives it underground.

BANFIELD: So, I just want to bring in Danny Cevallos and Jessica Ramirez if I can for a moment, our two attorneys on set. Danny, why no charges? It

seems so wrong. Why isn`t it?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Child pornography is a very specific definition. That`s why you can legally have

pictures of your children in bathing suits or even naked on your phone or even up in your house for whatever reason. It`s whether or not they`re

engaged in some sort of sexual act or sexy behavior. That`s the definition. Pictures of children in general.

BANFIELD: And they`re out in public, therefore, fair game?

CEVALLOS: Out in public, fair game.

BANFIELD: So, Jessica, would the husband actually be the person who`s breaking the law by grabbing that stranger`s phone, pulling it away from

him, and deleting content?

JESSICA RAMIREZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In this case, yes. I mean, it`s vial, it`s terrible, but when you`re out in a public place, there is no

expectation of privacy. So legally, criminally, this guy was doing nothing wrong. If you`re out in public, I mean, this man was out videotaping this

child. There was nothing deceitful about the situation. Then he has.

BANFIELD: This is gross.

RAMIREZ: Absolutely, it`s terrible.

BANFIELD: It`s just gross.

RAMIREZ: It`s vial. But legally, there`s nothing criminally wrong.

BANFIELD: Well, I`ll tell you what happened. Maybe the police couldn`t do anything, but the zoo came in and they decided, you`re done. They banned

the man from being at the zoo. So, if you`re going to that zoo, he won`t be there. Hold that thought for a moment. A special need student dies on a hot

school bus when the driver forgets to drop him off at school. If you are wondering how it could happen, what do you think?

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it normal for you to text sexually explicit texts with graphic words to others?

ARMANDO RAMIREZ, DRIVER WHO LEFT AUTISTIC TEEN INSIDE A BUS: Yes, I have some texts like that to other people, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: No amount of money can ease the pain of losing a child. Not a million dollars, $10 million, even $20 million. The family of Paul Lee was

devastated by his death. That teenager had extreme debilitating autism. And he was found dead on the floor of a bus, a school bus, parked in a lot just

east of L.A.

Paul, who couldn`t talk, was left for seven hours on a sweltering bus with temperatures soaring past 95. The driver, Armando Ramirez, admitted that he

didn`t check the rear of the bus to make sure that Paul got off. And not only that, he admitted he was distracted. Not by something important,

because he was sexting with his girlfriend.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, were you texting miss -- on the morning that Paul Lee was left on your bus and died?

RAMIREZ: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember making sexual innuendos in the texts to Miss?

RAMIREZ: That part I do remember, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember having a plan to meet up with Miss that morning, September 11th, 2015?

RAMIREZ: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand, you don`t remember what the texts were, so what was the arrangement?

RAMIREZ: That we would -- we were going to go over to my home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were going to go to your home?

RAMIREZ: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where you were living with your wife and children?

RAMIREZ: That`s correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That video from his deposition in the family`s civil case against the bus company and the school district, and during that interview, Armando

admitted it was not the first time.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it normal for you to text sexually explicit texts with graphic words to others?

[20:50:00] RAMIREZ: Yes, I have some texts like that to other people, yes.

BANFIELD: Attorneys for Paul Lee`s family were trying to prove that Armando Ramirez`s behavior and the behavior of other drivers employed by the bus

company was out of line. And that Armando`s attention was more focused on sex than on protecting the kids on his bus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had an intention that day to meet up with Miss, correct?

RAMIREZ: That`s correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you had met up with her the day before, the night before, hadn`t you?

RAMIREZ: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had been to her house the night before?

RAMIREZ: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There was a criminal trial, too. Ramirez pleaded guilty to dependent adult abuse. He was sent to state prison for two years. But it

was those statements in the deposition that led to a $23 million wrongful death settlement with Paul`s family. Brian Panish is the attorney for the

Lee family. He joins me from L.A. Brian, were you surprised that you were able to come to an agreement that was as high as it was, $23.5 million?

BRIAN PANISH, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM`S FAMILY: No, not really, Ashleigh. The conduct of the driver and the bus company was outrageous. What the

relationships that the family had with their son Paul was tremendous. And it was a horrific loss and tragedy that they continue to suffer and will

suffer for the rest of their lives.

BANFIELD: This bus company and the school district, they can pay this, and not be bankrupted?

PANISH: Well, yes, there`s multiple layers of insurance, re-insurance, excess insurance. It`s all being paid by the bus company. The school

district which contracted out with the bus company. It was determined they had no responsibility for what occurred.

BANFIELD: How is Mrs. Lee?

PANISH: You know, as could be expected. She`s still grieving. It hasn`t been that long. And she`s glad that she could get something done that could

hopefully help others from having to suffer like her family has suffered due to the loss of Paul.

BANFIELD: I think that`s a very good point. I also want to bring in Jessica Ramirez and Danny Cevallos on that. Jessica, a settlement like that, does

that do what Brian Panish just suggested that it does, it stops this from happening again?

RAMIREZ: I think so. I mean, the bus driver was so negligent, so grossly negligent. There was only three students in that bus, three. And this young

man was 300 pounds, 6 feet tall. How did he miss him? I mean, it wasn`t a school bus full of children, that could happen. But three children? I mean,

I think it`s outrageous. The depositions talked about that this wasn`t the first time that it happened. It happened at least four other times.

BANFIELD: So, Danny, the Paul Lee School Bus Safety Law was passed and signed into law by California Governor Jerry Brown this year. Do you see a

direct correlation between this case and obviously the named law?

CEVALLOS: Definitely. And.

BANFIELD: Would there has been a law if it weren`t for this case? I think is the better question.

CEVALLOS: You know, it`s hard to say -- I mean, a lot of times laws are sort of spurred by these horrific instances. There are so many examples of

this in legislation. And so it`s not unusual for this kind of thing to happen.

I think the settlement amount is rather shocking. Remember, the state, we don`t know how much, but the government or some part of that either

insurance or otherwise, they certainly had a financial incentive to pass legislation to avoid this happening again.

BANFIELD: Brian Panish, real quickly, did Armando Ramirez apologize to the Lee family?

PANISH: Not at all. I don`t think he has a lot of remorse. He was lucky that he had a short sentence of only two years. And he hasn`t contacted the

family at all, nor any of his family members, nor has anyone from the bus company.

BANFIELD: So sorry to hear that. Please give our thoughts and our prayers to the Lee family, Mrs. Lee in particular. Thank you so much for being on

the program tonight. Really appreciate it.

PANISH: Thank you.

BANFIELD: In the United States, more than 100,000 children live in homeless shelters. This week`s CNN hero, teaching in a school near Baltimore, when

she realized that there was a hell of a toll shelter life was taking on some of the kids. So she set out to do something about it. Her name is

Jennifer Cox.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER COX, CNN HERO: Kids are never going to learn in school, they`re never going to be successful if they don`t feel good about who they are.

Children don`t have a lot of space in shelter life to truly be kids. They`re experiencing very stressful turbulent situations. What we are going

to learn here today -- the best way to better the situation is to offer them opportunities to feel empowered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: To see how Jennifer is helping kids in shelter pave the path to a brighter future, go to cnnheroes.com. While you`re there, nominate someone

you think should be a 2017 CNN hero. Right back after this.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The relationship between inmates and the officers who supervise them can be complex. But it can also be pretty inspiring. Take yesterday

morning for example. These six men were on a work detail in Polk County, Georgia, when the officer in charge of them all of a sudden had one hell of

a medical emergency. He passed out in the heat.

And instead of making for the hills, this chain gang instead sprang into action. They used the officer`s phone to call 911. They removed his

bulletproof vest to try to help him cool down. They were going to start CPR, in fact. Turns out they didn`t have to. The paramedics got there in

time.

The sheriff, Johnny Moats, called these six men heroes. And said that he was not surprised by their actions. He also hosted a picnic lunch for them

in a park with desserts prepared by the officer`s family members. So, we are ending on a good note. Jessica and Danny, just for you, a special

treat.

RAMIREZ: I`m not surprised.

BANFIELD: You`re not?

RAMIREZ: No, I`m not. Everybody is trying to do the right thing.

[21:00:00] CEVALLOS: I`m surprised these guys can use their burner (inaudible).

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Thanks, Jessica. Thanks, Danny. Thank you, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. See you back here tomorrow night 8:00 o`clock for PRIMETIME

JUSTICE. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.

END