Return to Transcripts main page

WOLF

Pence At Policy Lunch; Senators Who Won't Support; McConnell Gauges Support; Five Senators Oppose Vote; Page Questioned by FBI; Nunes on Russia Probe; Syria Chemical Weapons Attack. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 27, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Right now, we're keeping a very close eye up on the -- at the White House. Around an hour or so from now, the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, scheduled to brief the news media. The briefing will be live and on camera, this for the first time in a week.

Expect plenty of health care-related questions. The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, wants a vote on the Republican Senate plan this week.

But these four Republican senators say they won't even support the bill as-is, if there is a bill this week. I'm talking about Susan Collins of Maine, Dean Heller from Nevada, Ron Johnson from Wisconsin and Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.

President Trump met with Senator Paul just a little while ago. And right now, the members are on their weekly Republican policy lunch up on the -- up on Capitol Hill.

House speaker Paul Ryan says, even with all the uncertainty, he's confident the Senate bill will be passed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I would not bet against Mitch McConnell. He is very, very good at getting things done through the Senate, even with this razor-thin majority.

I have every expectation that the Senate -- I don't know what day, but I have every expectation that the Senate will move this bill. So, I believe that they'll get this done and I believe they'll get it done because they said they would get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All those efforts have been seriously complicated by the report or the score from the Congressional Budget Office which says the Senate bill will lead to 22 million Americans no longer having insurance over the next 10 years.

Our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Dash, our Senior Congressional Reporter Manu Raju, they're both up on Capitol Hill. Our Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is over at the White House.

Dana, first to you. I understand you have a guest. Update us.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, I do. The vice president of the United States is just down the hall from where I am. He is in that closed-door meeting with Senate Republicans. A very, very important meeting which could really be determinative of whether or not this bill even getting a vote on the Senate floor, to -- excuse me. A vote to start debate on the Senate floor or not.

So, while that is happening, I have the vice president's spokesman, Marc Lotter, here we me. Thank you so much. Now, the vice president has been not only attending a meeting like this but he's been working the phones. He's been having one-on-one meetings with colleagues. What is his message to members of your party who -- many of whom -- who are just not on board yet.

MARC LOTTER, PRESS SECRETARY FOR VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Well, I think the one thing is that Republicans want to get to yes. This is something they've talked about seven years. This is something that the president campaigned on and it's a promise that we must deliver on.

The fact is, Obamacare is failing in front of our -- it's failing, it's collapsing in front of our eyes. People's premiums are going up.

And just yesterday the vice president met with about a dozen people who actually said that they had an Obamacare card in their -- in their wallet. The premiums cost more than their mortgages and many doctors and hospitals wouldn't even take it.

So, it's not necessarily insurance at all. So, what we need to do is find a way to get there with the Republicans in the Senate, just like we did in the House. This is a process. It's a legislative process and we'll get there. And the vice president and president are both busy working right now to make sure we do.

BASH: I've talked to several Senate Republican who have told me, and I'm sure they've told the vice president as well, it's too rushed. That they just got the language. They just got the CBO score, explaining what this -- what the impact is on real people and on dollars of the federal government. And that they -- that they want to wait.

Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. People who are very supportive of repealing Obamacare, but they don't think that this is -- that they're ready to take a vote right now.

Do you think that there's something to that? LOTTER: This is -- this is a process that Senator McConnell will work

through. Obviously, he'll call the vote, much like the speaker did when we were in the House. When he believes he has the votes, he'll call that vote and we'll keep working our way to making sure that we get there.

At the end of the day, it's the results that matter, not necessarily the process. And so, what we want to do is make sure that we fulfill that promise, the ones that the Republicans are making, that the president has been making. That we're going to lower premiums and improve access for Americans. And we'll get it done the right way.

So, as this process moves forward, when the votes are there, then the senator will call the vote.

BASH: How deep into the policy and the problems, that some of his fellow Republicans here have, is the vice president getting? How much is he trying to problem-solve on the policy to get those votes where they need to be?

LOTTER: I think he's working with the senators on both sides, in terms of the caucus and where they are and what their specific issues may be.

As a former governor, he knows that this is very much a state issue and how the states are impacted by the health care legislation.

So, what he's looking to do is make sure that we give states flexibility, to allow them to tailor the health care needs that meet the needs of their population.

[13:05:02] And so, he'll continue working with senators here. He'll talk to governors. He met with some of the governors here recently, talking about what can we do to make sure that the individual states have the power to be able to tailor the needs to meet their residents.

BASH: And, lastly, you, obviously, were on the campaign trail with the president and saw him. And lots of Republicans, pretty much all of them, not just the 2016 but the years' past, promised to repeal Obamacare. Is that part of his message, when talking to his colleagues behind closed doors here? Is he saying, look, you promised this and we've got to figure out a way to get to yes?

LOTTER: I think what you've seen, and the vice president has said this many times, is we're in the promise-keeping business. And so, he does take that message to Republicans. And that it is important that we fulfill our promises to the American people. Why they sent Republican leadership in the Congress, and also President Trump to the White House was to fulfill those promises.

And so, the question now is, is you're seeing the legislative process work. And how do we get there? How do we get to yes? And that's what you will continue seeing from the president and vice president in the hours and the days to come.

BASH: I would say hours, maybe even minutes. How do you get there or even can you get there is probably another question, which I'll say and I know you can't but that is the reality that's going on here. Can they even get to the point where they can bring this to the floor?

And that's what we're waiting to find out, really, probably in the next hour -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll get a lot more information, I'm sure, in the next hour. All right, Dana, thank you so much.

Manu, you're still up on Capitol Hill for us as well. Why did the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, think this was the time, right now, that it was so critical to have this final vote on the Senate floor by Thursday, just before the July 4th recess?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, the concern among the Republican leadership is the longer that this bill hangs out there, the harder it's going to be to pass it, as more public opposition grows, as members hear frustration from members, from their own constituents at town hall meetings over the July 4th recess. Which is why there's a major push, right now, to say this week is the week. That is a message that Mitch McConnell right now is delivering behind closed doors.

And it's something that other Republican leaders are delivering as well. John Cornyn, the number two Republican, said it would be a mistake to delay this vote beyond this week. Here's what he said --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Do you think that this vote should be delayed, in any way, to try to get more support for the bill?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: No, I think we should vote this week. We've been debating this issue for seven years, and I think it's time to -- for us to vote. And my hope and expectation is that we will pass a bill.

RAJU: How much harder would it be if it hangs out over recess?

CORNYN: Well, I think it would be a mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And, Wolf, there are a number of members in his conference, several right now, who are just not ready to even begin even debating this measure and many more have concerns about some of the provisions in there. And they want some significant changes.

One of the votes who's in question right now is Shelley Moore Capito, a West Virginia Republican who I had a chance to try to ask her a question about this bill and it was clear that she had some serious concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO (R), WEST VIRGINIA: Reserve comment. And see what improvements have been made. I think we'll find out at lunch.

RAJU: Are you concerned about where the bill is going?

MOORE CAPITO: I'm concerned about the direction of the bill, yes, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, clearly, she did not really want to stop and talk and answer questions about this. It just shows, Wolf, just how difficult of a political position she and other members are, particularly if you look at issues like Medicaid funding that could hurt rural voters in her own state.

It's unclear whether or not Mitch McConnell will get her and several other votes. Right now, it does not look like they have the votes. But, still, the push is on to have at least that first procedural vote as soon as tomorrow -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I thought it was -- originally, they were even thinking of today. But now, they've definitely postponed it to tomorrow, is that right?

RAJU: It sounds like it. John Cornyn answering questions from reporters earlier said that tomorrow, probably, is going to be the day. Still uncertain during this very significant period of negotiating, in this hour where members will be airing their concerns behind closed doors at that lunch.

Wolf, we'll listen to any clues from Mitch McConnell after that lunch if he changes his plain plans after that meeting -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And if they do the vote tomorrow, can they still do the final vote for passage or failure on Thursday or do they have to wait until Friday?

RAJU: It depends. Because of the rules that they're bringing this under, there's a specific amount of hours they would actually have to debate this bill. It's not unlimited.

Eventually, if they do bring it tomorrow, and they get the 50 votes, they get onto the bill, there would be a final passage vote by the end of the week.

So, that's why the first procedural vote is so significant because there's a limited time frame to debate it on the floor because of the procedures they're bringing it up under. Which is why that first vote is so significant and it's uncertain whether they can even get on the bill -- Wolf.

[13:10:00] BLITZER: Right. And that procedural vote needs 50. If you get 50, then the vice president, who's president of the Senate, breaks the tie. Is that right?

RAJU: Yes, that's exactly right. It would be highly unusual to see that happen. Rarely does the president -- vice president come in to break a tie, let alone on a procedural vote.

It just shows how controversial this is within the own -- within the Senate Republican Conference, let alone with Democrats. Republicans are not even ready to debate this yet. We'll see if that actually comes to that or if (INAUDIUBLE) decide maybe it's time to punt it and wait for later. We just don't know that yet (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: All right. We'll know a lot more in the next hour or two. All right, stand by.

Let's go to the White House. Jeff Zeleny is over there.

Jeff, how much arm-twisting are we seeing from the president and his top aides?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there's not as much arm twisting as you might think with the bill so significant. We only know of one senator who is coming over to the White House, at least as of this -- as of this hour for a meeting and that is Rand Paul, the Republican from Kentucky, of course.

He either was meeting or is still meeting with the president here in the west wing. And I am told what the president is trying to do is focus on that first vote, that Manu just talking about on the motion to proceed. That is the Senate vote that would allow them to debate the actual bill.

And, you know, it's very much an open question, if they have support for that. Five Republican senators now came out against it.

So, I'm told that the president, the White House, the legislative staff here is reaching out to those conservative senators, urging them to stay on board with this. Reminding them that it's a Republican priority. A priority this Republican Party has talked about and worked for for almost a decade, actually, Wolf. And something this president, of course, ran on.

But I am told that they are not pressing for a hard and fast deadline. I'm told the president has had many conversations with Senator McConnell. Obviously, they would like to see a vote this week but they are not urging a hard and fast deadline, because they're not simply sure if they can get that actually to happen.

But the president's schedule, Wolf, is pretty much wide open for the rest of the afternoon, for most of the afternoon. That is by design, I am told, to reach out by phone, in-person meeting, whatever, with any Republican senator who might need some encouragement, shall we say.

And always important to point out. In a bill like this, there are extra projects, dollars, other things available here. So, this is the interesting part of the sausage making of the legislation here.

And, Wolf, the White House is in the middle of it. Reince Priebus, White House Chief of Staff, he is at that Senate lunch up on Capitol Hill, as well as the vice president. But the president here is manning the phones at the White House. Not too, too involved.

And that's just fine with Mitch McConnell, because they do not want someone changing the details of this legislation. This is very much up in question at this hour -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Jeff Zeleny, we'll stand by for that White House briefing that's coming up.

Dana Bash, Manu Raju up on the Hill.

One Republican aide describes the Senate health care bill as hanging by a thread. Right now, the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell is meeting with those Republican senators. McConnell is pushing for a vote this week. Some GOP senators, however, say, not so fast.

Let's discuss with our panel. We have our CNN Politics Reporter and Editor-at-Large Chris Cillizza. Our CNN Senior Political Analyst Mark Preston and Mia McGinnis, President of the Committee for Responsible Federal Government.

We just learned, Chris, that Mike Lee, the Republican senator from Utah, --

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes.

BLITZER: -- now his intention is to vote no --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BLITZER: -- on this procedural motion to at least start the debate. That's a significant setback for those who want this legislation passed.

CILLIZZA: Right. You learn the math. Four is less than five. So, now there are five and they can only lose two. Right.

And so, Mitch McConnell always was going to have to thread a very fine needle. And if you go back and look in May, when before this had even come up, essentially, Mitch McConnell says, I don't know if we're going to be able to do this. Which I think is a relatively candid assessment.

One thing I will say, I thought Manu's reporting was really important. McConnell and Cornyn are savvy consumers of the way in which politics works.

I'm very skeptical that, all of a sudden, they go on July 4th recess and they return July 8th. And Susan Collins' doubts about -- of Maine. Doubts about the bill are suddenly -- disappear, or Mike Lee or Rand Paul.

These kind of things -- and I know Mark and I have covered Congress a long time together. Usually when it sits out there, it becomes a pinata. And that's what you don't want, it sitting out there.

It seems unlikely, to me, that views today -- that June 27th Susan Collins' view of this bill is radically different than July 8th Susan Collins' view of this bill or July 15th or pick a date in the future.

So, I actually think they're right to try to push. I think a delay just delays what may wind up being inevitable. But there just isn't a coalition between, sort of, the centrist in the Senate on the Republican side and the conservatives that get to 50.

BLITZER: Yes, 50 is the key vote. Mark, as you know, 52 Republicans, 48 Democrats and independents who support the Democrats. If they lose two, they still win.

[13:15:06] MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

BLITZER: Because the vice president, who's the president of the Senate, breaks the tie. They lose three, it's over.

PRESTON: It's over. And they're at five now. And that's five that have publicly come out and actually said that they don't want to move forward with it. But if you talk to Republicans on Capitol Hill - quite frankly if you talk to Democrats on Capitol Hill who are talking to Republicans, they know that that number is much bigger than five. I mean you could be up to 10, 12, perhaps 15 right now. The problem with this bill is, seven years in the making. This is what they have to offer. And, quite frankly, it doesn't persuade enough conservatives and enough centrists to come together to agree that this is - this is a better option than what we currently have right now. I don't think Republicans like Obamacare. I mean I think they're unified in their opposition to it, but they don't have a replacement for it, Wolf, and that has been the big problem.

BLITZER: How do you see this unfolding, Maya?

MAYA MACGUINEAS, PRESIDENT, COMTE. FOR A RESPONSIBLE FEDERAL BUDGET: Well, I think it's no surprise when it's this complicated because reforming our health care system is about as difficult an undertaking as you can find. But I still think the problem is, nobody knows what they're trying to solve for. And so, of course it's kind of chaotic out there because is this a bill other than - it is seven years in the making and it's been a major political talking point, but is the purpose of this bill to control health care costs, which needs to happen, to keep coverage or expand coverage, which is something it hasn't been able to do? Is it to provide more flexibility to consumers or through the states? Is it to give a big tax cut, which it does? And the truth is, across the board, different folks are trying to solve for different problems. And until you lay out what your objective is, you can't even access the trade-offs. And there are trade-offs in anything as big as this. This is not a political environment where people talk about trade-offs much at all, so the conversation becomes convoluted, too complicated and somewhat disingenuous in pretending you can have it all when you can't.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: That's, by the way, so right-on because the seven years was largely spent saying, Obamacare is bad. And it was like, well, what's your alternative? Well, we're not in power, so we don't need to have an alternative. The reason that this is a hard vote is because there's no easy solution. And it's going to be - it was always going to be a hard vote. If there was a simple, elegant solution, a Republican solution on health care, they would have already done it.

PRESTON: Years (ph) ago.

BLITZER: All right, let's see what Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, can do. It's not over with yet. These next several hours will be critical. All right, guys, thanks very much.

Up next, yet another twist in the Russia election meddling investigation. We're learning FBI agents spent hours questioning this man, Carter Page, a former adviser out on the campaign trail for Donald Trump. But why?

Plus, Sean Spicer will hold his first on-camera White House briefing in a week. That's coming up in less than an hour, we're told. We'll have live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:24] BLITZER: The White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, will take to the lectern shortly for his first on-camera briefing in a week. He's likely to field questions, lots of questions, about the Russia investigation.

And we're now learning FBI agents have questioned the former Trump campaign adviser, Carter Page, extensively. "The Washington Post" reporting the meetings lasted ten hours during five meetings. Page, you may remember, was on candidate Trump's national security advisory team.

Our justice reporter, Shimon Prokupecz, is joining us now.

Shimon, you've been following this story now, obviously, for a long time. What more can you tell us about this late development?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: So, yesterday, Carter Page sent us a statement basically confirming that he had met with the FBI. The FBI has been very interested in Carter Page since his name first surfaced that he may have been advising the Trump campaign. And during the course of that, as you know, they took it pretty seriously. They took his involvement in the campaign pretty seriously because there was concerns that Carter Page may have been - being - was being used by the Russians. Carter Page, as we have done so much reporting about him, had extensive contact with the Russians, had spent time in Russia, spoke at events in Russia. And the folks within the intelligence community just became concerned that somehow the Russians may have gotten to Carter Page and were trying to get information from him. So much so that they went ahead, the FBI, and went to the secret court, the FISA court, and got a warrant, a - basically a FISA warrant to conduct surveillance of him.

We don't know the extent of how - what they learned during the interviews with him, but Carter Page has said he basically denied the dossier. You know, he's quoted - he's mentioned in the dossier. He denied any involvement in collusion or working with the Russians. But, you know, the investigation is still ongoing in terms of - for the FBI and they have not reached any conclusions yet. The FBI wouldn't confirm any of this for us, but certainly U.S. officials that we have talked to about Carter Page, there was always this concern about him. Some thought he just wasn't a very serious person, maybe was just talking, was kind of embellishing his involvement with the campaign. Others at the FBI were concerned that maybe, in fact, the Russians were able to get to him. But all of that is still under investigation and the FBI, you know, right now, is not really saying if they're near a conclusion.

BLITZER: All right, Shimon, thanks very much. Shimon Prokupecz reporting for us.

Republican Congressman Will Hurd of Texas is a member of both the House Intelligence and Homeland Security Committees. He's a former CIA operative. He's joining us now live from Capitol Hill.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. WILL HURD (R), TEXAS: Wolf, always a pleasure to be on.

BLITZER: All right, let me get your quick thoughts on the Russia investigation before we move on. As you know, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Devin Nunes, says he can retake control of this investigation at any time if he wants to. He says he temporarily stepped aside from the investigation. Did not recuse himself. What do you make of that?

HURD: Well, he never has used the term recusal, and he said he wanted to focus on the - on this ethics investigation, and not have any of the two things mix. And I think Chairman Conaway, Mike Conaway, is doing a great - great job of continuing the investigation in a thorough, bipartisan manner. And we need to continue to do that so that the American people trusts what comes out once this is all complete.

BLITZER: So, from your perspective, it's best if Congressman Conaway and the ranking Democrat, Adam Schiff, if they continue to lead the House Intelligence Committee investigation and let the chairman, Devin Nunes, stay aside, is that right?

HURD: Well, it's the - it's Chairman Nunes' prerogative and, again, recusal is a very specific legal term. And he hasn't used that. Nobody on the committee has used that. But while he has stepped down from this investigation, I think Chairman Conaway has been doing a very good job of being methodical and continuing this in a bipartisan way.

BLITZER: Let's talk about this announcement, the statement from the White House, about Syria. The white House putting out a statement saying that Syria possibly preparing for another chemical weapons attack against civilians. The Trump administration warning Syria will pay, in their words, a heavy price if there is another chemical weapons attack. What's your reaction - what can you tell us about this?

HURD: Well, Wolf, as you know, I spent nine and a half years serving shoulder to shoulder with some patriots in the CIA as an undercover officer. And one of the thing I'd learned in my time in the CIA is, be nice with nice guy and tough with tough guys. In this case, I think this is the right move.

[13:25:13] Bashar al Assad needs to go. He's already proven a willingness to use chemical weapons multiple times. We just think about the time he did this last when we had the response with the 49 or 59 missiles into Syria. He's done this on a couple of dozen of occasions. And having these red lines are important, but it's important to also follow-through. If there is a threat, you must follow through. And preventing Bashar al Assad from using chemical weapons again on his citizens, on our troops, is the right move.

BLITZER: As you know, Iran, in reacting to the White House statement, put out its own statement saying, "any remarks by the U.S. about Syrian chemical weapons attack represents," in the words of Iran, "a dangerous escalation that will only serve ISIS." How does that impact what the U.S. might do? A very strong statement against the U.S. warning from Iran, and from Russia for that matter as well. Both Iran and Russia support Bashar al Assad's regime.

HURD: If Bashar al Assad uses chemical weapons, we should hold the Iranians and the Russians accountable for this. The Russians and the Iranians should be asking, why would these Syrians use chemical weapons? Those are the questions they should be asking, whether than second guessing or trying to influence our actions. When it comes to Iran, they're as big of a problem in the region. They're support to elements - to terrorist elements in Syria and Iraq. So this is them trying to divert attention away from the right move, and that is being very clear on what our response is going to be. When you're clear on what a response is going to be, that oftentimes serves as a way to prevent that behavior from happening.

BLITZER: I know you've got to vote, so I'm going to let you go.

Congressman Will Hurd of Texas. Thanks, as usual, for joining us.

HURD: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: More on the - that ominous warning from the White House to Syria's Bashar al Assad over the use of chemical weapons against his own people. Our panel weighing in when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)