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Hackers Launch Global Strike; Venezuelan Helicopter Attacked Supreme Court; Trump's Red Line in Syria; Trump Suffers Health Care Setback. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired June 28, 2017 - 0000   ET



[00:00:10] PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour --

Global cyber attacks target power grids, banks, airports, even a nuclear power station with hackers demanding ransom to release infected computers.

NEWTON: Donald Trump's red line in Syria -- the White House sends a warning to Bashar al Assad.

VAUSE: And it was the defining promise of Donald Trump during the presidential campaign but repealing and replacing Obamacare has suffered yet another major setback.

NEWTON: Hello and thanks for joining us. I'm Paula Newton.

VAUSE: Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause.

NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

NEWTON: A massive cyber attack targeting some of the world's largest companies is now renewing questions about global IT security. Russia and Ukraine were the first to report problems. But the attacks spread to other countries in Europe and Asia, companies in the U.S. were affected as well.

VAUSE: The hackers used a virus called ransomware which takes control of an infected computer threatening to delete everything unless a ransom is paid, 300 bit-coins -- about $300.

CNN contributor Jill Dougherty is live in Moscow right.

Jill -- clearly Ukraine has been especially hard hit, to a lesser extent Russia. What's the latest from there? Is it just now simply returning some kind of normality or will that take some time?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, it's a little unclear. Some companies are saying it could take quite a while. But you're absolutely right that this part of the world, at least initially, was hit really hard especially Ukraine and to a great extent, Russia as well.

The areas that they hit are telecommunications, banks, energy -- things like that. Although the Ukrainian government was hit, things like the post office, the metro, banks, et cetera.

Apparently, what's being used here is called "Petya" -- that is an encryptor virus that gets into your computer, locks it down and as you mentioned, basically you know, forces you to pay -- you don't have to, obviously and it's suggested you don't -- but forces you to pay to get your computer turned back on.

But it's a major concern here, especially when you look at the companies here in Russia that were hit, Rosneft, the biggest energy company in this country -- John.

VAUSE: Ok. Jill -- thank you. Jill Dougherty there in Moscow with the very latest.

And joining us here in Los Angeles, Robert Herjavec, the founder and CEO of the Herjavec Group, global IT security firm and an expert in all things ransomware, I guess, which is why you're here.

It's good to have you.

Ok. "Petya" was like "Wannacry" which was the malware --


VAUSE: -- which they used actually back in May. It basically rewrites the MBR, the master boot record. But there's some debate over whether or not "Petya" is actually more effective than "Wannacry". What's your take?

ROBERT HERJAVEC, FOUNDER AND CEO, HERJAVEC GROUP: Well, actually "Petya" wasn't that effective as a ransomware because it used e-mail as a transport mechanism in order for people to pay. But the e-mail hosting company in the Ukraine shut them down. So even if you wanted to pay the $300 you couldn't.

So we really don't think it was a ransomware. We think it was more targeted infrastructure and no one's really sure about that.

But what's interesting is it is very much like "Wannacry" and it comes from the same malware called Eternal Blue which is actually developed by the NSA. So believe it or not, it was the American government who had created --

VAUSE: -- the information they got from the hack, that huge hack that --

HERJAVEC: The huge hack that hit the NSA was a group called the Shadow Group actually broke into the NSA, took the virus and tried to sell it initially but couldn't and they just released it to the public.

NEWTON: Ok. But there was a patch for that in April. We had companies today even like Maersk conforming, the big shipping conglomerate confirming that they were attacked today. Why? They've all put in the patch surely.

HERJAVEC: 60 percent of the attack that we know right now -- we've been working on this all day with our threat group. What we know right now is that 60 percent of the attack was in the Ukraine and the Ukrainian government's confirmed that. 30 percent was in Russia and there were some companies affected in North America, especially hospitals.

And you're right. There was a patch that was actually released a year ago. And there a new patch released in March of this year.

What's interesting about "Petya" though is it's different than "Wannacry" in the sense that if you have a single system that wasn't patched, it will bring down your entire network again.

NEWTON: One little tiny flaw.

HERJAVEC: One little server somewhere in your network. And because it uses something different than "Wannacry" and uses Windows Messenger which is a control module that you distribute and it can bring your whole network down.

[00:05:01] VAUSE: Ok. When we talk about Ukraine -- Ukraine's deputy prime minister tweeted a shot -- a screen shot of his actual -- of his computer which was infected.


VAUSE: And it's interesting because 60 percent of the computers were affected, at least in Ukraine; 30 percent were in Russia. You know, the initial suspicion of Ukraine was that this was some kind of Russian cyber attack. But that hasn't been proved.

So the question is --

HERJAVEC: Well, the other interesting point to that, to your question is, you know, do you know why it's called "Petya". It's actually a town in Russia which was made famous -- it's also called Goldeneye because of James Bond.


HERJAVEC: So there is this whole suspicion that it was the Russian hacking group doing it.

VAUSE: Well then, why Ukraine?

HERJAVEC: Who knows? Infrastructure, utilities -- we heard that a lot. The utilities were brought down. You know, a lot of this stuff, you don't know the effect until later on.

We suspect that it wasn't actually ransomware, that there was a larger element to it. NEWTON: And Robert, I want to get to that point. What is the danger if these are what they call probing attacks? So they've had a huge effect but, you know, everyone will get together now, discuss how best to patch this.

It will get solved, many people are saying within 24 hours -- great. What is the danger here? What could they be probing for?

HERJAVEC: Yes. The average company that has a breech has been affected for about six and a half months before they realized that there's been a breech. And so the danger in some of these things is they probing for information, utility information, government information, financial information, cyber terrorism, espionage.

I mean, let's not forget that this tool was originally invented by the NSA for cyber espionage.

NEWTON: Which worked quite effectively in Iran?

HERJAVEC: Which worked very well in Iran and so it could be the same effect. But we don't know at this point.

VAUSE: There does seem to be sort of a big favor (ph) or one big flaw with this program. When a victim's computer is infected it asks you to send a bitcoin payment but everyone is sending it to the same address apparently.

So, you know, the people who are carrying out this attack don't know who's paid and who hasn't.

HERJAVEC: Well, the other moral dilemma in all of this is that e-mail hosting typically when you want to roll out a big ransomware attack, you don't want people to pay you via e-mail.

VAUSE: Right.

HERJAVEC: You want them to go somewhere else and pay you. When you use e-mail, the hosting company can shut you down, which is what happened here.

VAUSE: They got about $7,000 I think, right.

HERJAVEC: Yes. They only got $7,000.

You know, we should never underestimate how good the hackers are. When you roll out an attack like this, it's very difficult to contain it.

So it could be as simple as they rolled it out, it became bigger than they thought because it's a massive attack. So we don't really know at this point.

VAUSE: So very quickly. Is this the new normal -- cyber insecurity?

HERJAVEC: Yes. This is definitely the new normal. You've got to constantly have vigilance and look at your systems. (inaudible) a hunting group knew about this 24 hours ago. People have

to be watching their systems and you have to patching.

VAUSE: Right.

NEWTON: Expect to hear more.

Robert -- thanks so much. Appreciate it.

HERJAVEC: Thank you.

VAUSE: Good to see you. Thanks for coming in.

Well, a Venezuelan police unit has seized a helicopter and declared its opposition to the government. President Nicolas Maduro says the groups used the chopper during an attack at the Supreme Court in Caracas. They're armed with guns and grenades.


NEWTON: Yes that terrifying video for everyone there in Caracas. And despite all the gunfire, the president says no one was hurt. The pilot of the helicopter demanded that Mr. Maduro resign saying it's for a coalition of military and police officers and civilian officials. It's going to take quite a while for them to sort out exactly who's behind that.

VAUSE: Yes. It's a step up in the campaign against Maduro.

Ok. Well, just hours after the White House warned the Syrian regime there would be consequences of another chemical gas attack, President Bashar al-Assad appeared on television at a play where his safety seems almost guaranteed -- a Russian airbase south of the city of Latakia.

NEWTON: Now the White House says he'll pay a heavy price for another attack. The Pentagon says the warning is based on what they say are satellite images indicated activity at an airfield where chemical weapons are believed to be stored.

Joining us now are CNN military analyst Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona and Gayle Tzemach-Lemmon, she's a senior fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations. Thank you both.

Colonel Francona, I want to go first to you. The story sounds familiar because it is very familiar. The United States struck that same base in April.

Why can they not prevent it? They said it was a limited strike. But of course, at the time, the Trump administration thought that it had an effect.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. That supposed to be a punitive strike, a message to the Assad regime not to do this again. It was supposed to be a deterrent.

If in fact the Syrians are going to do this again, that deterrence has failed. The problem with establishing these red lines which is what that was is once you draw them, you have to enforce them. Once we've enforced that once, now we're boxed in. We have to enforce it again.

[00:10:07] If the Syrians are foolish enough to use chemical weapons again, we have to respond. And it's just constant ratcheting up of this escalation that leads you closer to an all-out confrontation. It draws us further and puts us that much closer to a direct confrontation with the Russians.

NEWTON: Now Gayle -- you're arguing it's not as dire as all that. But what effect do you think it will have, the statement from the White House?

You know, many people are saying well, are they telegraphing what they're going to do? You know, my point is no, to give the White House some credit, they might just be wanting to avoid civilians -- innocent civilians from getting hurt.

GAYLE TZEMACH-LEMMON, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well right. And as Colonel Francona said, right, this was aimed at really sending a message in trying to keep them from doing something that the U.S. administration clearly thought was imminent.

And so, you know, what we've been arguing is that the real argument that the U.S. and Russia have had is that neither side wants to enter into a wider war. The U.S. is really focused on ISIS and it's focused on Raqqa and the campaign to retake Raqqa. And it is not excited or eager to enter or slip or descend into a conflict with Russia.

And so the deconfliction line which has had a conversation around it is very much in use despite some discussion that maybe, you know, a recent act has kept from being active.

And the truth is that neither side, neither the U.S. nor Russia wants to enter into this wider war. And the real question is can Russia control the Assad regime? And I don't think we know the answer that.

NEWTON: No. And Russia's been fairly blunt, if you take them at their face value, in saying no we cannot control the Assad regime.

Colonel Francona -- what are the dangers here though? As you said, this is possibly that red line that the Trump administration is saying you can't step over. Boy, where have we heard that before?

And even if it is effective, what is the danger on the ground. Gayle points out, it is becoming more complicated on the ground there as the fight against ISIS continues in Syria.

FRANCONA: Yes. And it's -- that's where we are now. And it's going to get even worse.

Once Raqqa falls and everybody is focused on eastern Syria, the Syrians are in a race to get to Deier ez-Zor there. The Kurdish forces are going to take Raqqa and they're going to head down to the same area fighting ISIS.

And we're going to be in closer contact. U.S. backed forces and Russian-backed forces are going to be closer together. So this is not going to mitigate. It's going to get worse.

But back to they, you know, the use of chemical weapons, I think that although President Trump says he doesn't want to telegraph his intentions, this was merely an attempt at deterrence. And we all hope it works.

The Russians -- and Gayle is absolutely right. We don't know just how much effect they have on the Syrians. We should think it was a --

NEWTON: We've lost Colonel Francona for a minute -- we'll try and get him back.

Gayle -- if you can come back in here and just pick up where Colonel Francona left of there. We don't know what the impact is although, you know, Russia was quite strident when the attacked happened saying look, you have no proof that this is even happening.

At what point do we risk that escalation between Russia and the United States?

TZEMACH-LEMMON: Well, I mean I think what Colonel Francona was saying was that, you know, there was this idea for a very long time that Russia was controlling the Assad regime on whose side it was all in, in the Syria conflict.

But really recently, there has been more and more of a question mark about that. And there is a very professional conversation going on between the Russian military and the U.S. military in Syria and there is a very uneasy but definitely a co-existence at this moment on a crowded battlefield.

Both sides would like to keep that. Whether they are able to keep that going I think it's a question of the hour as this gets increasingly complicated because it's not clear that Iran and the Iranian-backed militias also has an interest in keeping the two sides from going into conflict directly with one another.

And it's also not clear how the Syrian regime will allow Russia to control the moves that it makes going forward.

NEWTON: Yes. And you definitely see a very shrewd dance by all parties right now when it comes to the post-game.

Colonel Francona -- I hope we have you back there to really talk about what is the post-game in Syria.


NEWTON: Look, nor Russia -- neither Russia nor the United States is good at that, at what happens after. And all you have to do is look at places like Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq and you've got all the proof that you need.

Are there any signs that the Trump administration knows what they're dealing with especially when they put that red line out there. FRANCONA: I think the problem is we don't have a coherent Syria policy articulated in this administration. During the Obama administration, we knew what the policy was. It was two-fold. It was the removal of Bashar al-Assad and the defeat of ISIS.

[00:14:58] When President Trump came into office he said he was more interested in defeating ISIS and not interested in removing dictators in the Middle East, not interested in the Syrian civil war.

We need to know exactly what his policy is and what the policy is toward the Bashar al-Assad government. Are we going to hope that we can have some sort of diplomatic solution with the Russians for the future of Syria? Or are we going to work on the sidelines to remove Bashar al-Assad. Once we know that, then we can figure where we're going.

NEWTON: All right. Colonel Francona, Gayle -- thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Yes. I mean this continues to go on this way, one of the key problems is what's going on for the future of Syria as they try and extract ISIS out of Raqqa. It's been fascinating really just to see how Russia has really been insinuating itself in all those --

VAUSE: It's also interesting how the Trump policy is very similar to the Obama administration policy --

NEWTON: You didn't hear that here.

VAUSE: -- on some levels at least.

NEWTON: Here, actually.

VAUSE: Ok. We'll take a short break.

When we come back -- repeal delayed. U.S. Senate Republicans scrambling to save their health care bill in what looks to be a dramatic setback for President Trump.

NEWTON: Plus some people need a lot of sleep. No, I'm not talking about me. Yes, of course, I need sleep. Some though apparently just need a little. Is that good news or bad news? Could a lack of sleep though be hurting your brain?

VAUSE: Yes, it is.

NEWTON: You will hear the answer in detail.


NEWTON: U.S. Senate Republicans and President Trump are trying to recover from what has been really a dramatic setback. Senate leaders have delayed a vote on the health care bill until after the July 4th recess.

That also delays seven years -- seven years of Republican promises to repeal and replace Obamacare.

VAUSE: The Senate plan has zero support from Democrats, an increasing number of Republicans oppose it. Though with not even enough votes within the Republican Party to begin debate.

NEWTON: Now, after the delay, all 52 Republican Senators were bused to the White House for a vetting session with President Trump. Now sources tell CNN Senate leadership wants to secure a deal by the end of the week.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: So I think the meeting was very helpful. But the one thing I would say is that I think everybody around the table is interested in getting to yes, interested in getting an outcome because we know the status quo is simply unacceptable, unsustainable and no action is just not an option.


NEWTON: A lot to talk about there. Joining us now: Los Angeles Democratic mayoral candidate Mitchell Schwartz and CNN political commentator and talk show host John Phillips.

VAUSE: Also with us the assistant managing editor for politics at the "Los Angeles Times", Christina Bellantoni. It's been a while -- Christina. Thank you for coming back. Good to see you.


VAUSE: Ok. John -- just starting with you. The original strategy in the Senate seemed to be get it done, get it done quickly, hold a vote, hope someone sees what they see in it and then move on.

So what now? Delay is better than defeat?

[00:19:58] JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think you have to get it done right. We already have a bill that was passed in secret and it doesn't work. We don't want to repeat that twice.

And frankly right now we're sitting in a situation where Rand Paul and Ted Cruz hold all the cards. They can't really lose any votes. They have very little room for error.

They have 52 seats. They need every single one of those. They can lose two of them.

And Mitch McConnell is a guy who's been around the block a while. He knows how to get this stuff through. I know Nancy Pelosi is a self- described master legislator but Mitch McConnell is one, too.

And right now the White House has all the pressure in the world on these people. Mitch McConnell is putting pressure on them. And I'd rather see a bill come after the 4th of July than to have a flawed one come before.

NEWTON: That's if you get to even that point because they're very far apart. I mean Donald Trump tweeting again today saying, "Zero Democrats to help in a failed, expensive, dangerous Obamacare the Dems will ever see -- legacy. The Republican Senators are working hard."

Christina -- how hard do these guys have to work though -- guys and gals -- considering that you know, if I go through conservative media as I have been for the last few days any red state -- there is no one saying anything positive about this bill.

I mean that is hyperbole but come on. It's not a popular bill right now with anybody.

BELLANTONI: Sure. And you've got the competing issues that senators like Lisa Murkowski in Alaska, for example, who isn't going to vote for something that defunds Planned Parenthood. And then the Ted Cruz of Texas issue where he says it's not a conservative enough measure. So they're in a really difficult position.

And having an extra week where they go home to face the voters may not help. We've seen a lot of activity at town halls over the course of this year.

And I'll just remind people that when they passed Obamacare, it took many months. And in fact between the House and Senate passage, you had an entire special election with Scott Brown winning in Massachusetts that upended the math and those calculations for the Democrats in the Senate.

And so you could have something similar happen here, a very long delay. And if the bill could change dramatically before it sees a final form before it reaches President Trump's desk.

And don't forget, Mitch McConnell has a little bit of money to play with in this bill where he can dole out some really kickbacks to some of these senators that are looking for extra money for certain programs within the health care to be able to say that they've taken something home to their constituents -- that they've had a victory.

VAUSE: So McConnell bucks (ph) it around.

Ok, you mentioned Christina, the town halls and the blow back. Here's a look at what some of the Republicans have been facing. Take a look at some of the town halls of late.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop trying to repeal the ACA just because it has the name Obama on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't even --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you saying that you're voting for this bill because it represents your -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I believe in the best interest of the

people we represent, we are going to clear our position on this and where we're going --


VAUSE: Ok. So Mitchell to you -- you know, voters out there in (inaudible) of the country, they probably don't care about the Russia investigation. They probably don't care about the conflicts of interest with the President -- the emoluments clause in the Constitution. But they do care about health care.

MITCHELL SCHWARTZ (D), LOS ANGELES MAYORAL CANDIDATE: And what the Republicans are doing, let's not -- let's take a step back for a second.

It's a defeat for them temporarily but it's a victory for the American people. Why are they rushing this through?

The Democrats under Bill Clinton had Democratic had Democratic control of the Congress in '93, '94. They took almost two years to try to get a health care bill. It didn't even make it to Congress.

Again, Obama administration took almost two years to get a good health care bill passed.

What is the rush? You're dealing with one-seventh of the national economy and the Senate under Mitch McConnell has been debating this in private. We need to have an open airing of all these issues.

What they're going to suffer from and why they're trying to get this done quickly is they want to stop a revolt before people realize that 20 million plus people are going to be thrown off of the insurance -- thrown out of insurance.

NEWTON: And it's interesting John, because inside of that bill, you know, you've seen them, there are those stop-gap measures that really clear them of a lot of blame during crucial elections in 2018 to make sure the full effects aren't seen.

Having said that, if the bill doesn't pass or we just can't do it, as Mitchell is saying -- can't Trump just say hey, this is a Beltway failure. I tried and I failed. I tried to bring these people together. I mean come on, he doesn't have much to lose here if you ask me.

PHILLIPS: I think you've got to go back and start negotiating again. They're not quite at the Bill Cosby jury level of being deadlocked here. So I think there's a lot of room to play with this. I think there's a lot of changes that could be made.

And I think the electoral comment that you made is a good one. Look at how Republicans have run on Obamacare and look at the results.

[00:25:04] They ran on it in 2010. They won massive wins. They ran on it again in 2014. They won massively. In the state of Montana this last time, we saw health care is the issue that the Democrats raised and they lost that race.

And we saw in red states all over the country these angry town halls where, you know, the new tidal wave is coming and these Republicans are going to get swept out of office. They had five elections that were contested since the presidential election. The Republicans have won all five.

VAUSE: Four -- the other one --

PHILLIPS: And of course, (inaudible). Ok. So the run-off in Louisiana.


SCHWARTZ: But of course, up until 2010, Democrats I think lost seven in a row. And -- sorry Republicans lost seven in a row and then they send (ph) this up on the presidency.

VAUSE: Very quickly, I want get to this Pew survey for global views of the United States around the world, in particular of Donald Trump. Pew went out and surveyed 37 countries.

More people believe Russia's Vladimir Putin would do the right thing for world affairs than Donald Trump. Angela Merkel comes in at number one. And actually the Chinese president came in at number two, we just didn't put it in there.

But Christina -- many Trump voters will look at that and say -- good, that's exactly what we voted him in for.

BELLANTONI: Well, I mean look at his decision to pull out of the Paris Climate Accord. He even said in the rose garden that day, you know, I'm not here to represent Paris. No, I'm here to represent Pittsburgh.

And you know, Pittsburgh of course said, well, wait a minute we actually want to look at these reforms to making sure that we have fewer carbon emissions than we did before.

But he recognizes that this is something that his constituents aren't as interested in, the global stage. He ran against Obama's foreign policy really from the beginning -- before he even announced he was running for president. He was out there on Fox News criticizing the President's military decisions, his diplomatic decisions -- that sort of thing.

But it's also the trade accords that he's shaking up his foreign policy team that he's put in place, that he's kind of sidelining and taking, you know, a strong stance.

You mentioned the Syria situation. You know, his State Department wasn't as clued in on that statement that they issued that they should have been or as traditional presidents have informed the State Department.

So this is someone who isn't going to any of the norms. So of course, he's going to be viewed very differently abroad.

VAUSE: Ok. Mitchell --

SCHWARTZ: At the end of the day Americans want their president to be the leader of the free world. That means staying strong with your allies like NATO, like even countries like Australia that he picks on. And so, I think that people don't want the coddling of dictators that Trump seems to feel comfortable with be it Philippines, be it Putin.

And well, Americans don't often vote on foreign affairs, they do want their president to be the leader of the free world. And Trump certainly doesn't want to take that role on.

VAUSE: John -- ten seconds.

PHILLIPS: Donald Trump ran with a platform of making America great again, not making Pakistan great again.

VAUSE: Ok. Well, he's not making Pakistan great again. And we'll find out, the jury is still out on America. We'll find out soon enough.

John, Mitchell and Christina -- thanks so much.

NEWTON: What about Russia though -- John?

VAUSE: He's making Russia great again.

NEWTON: Next on CNN NEWSROOM, a small group of ISIS militants has inflicted heavy losses on the Philippine Army. Just ahead -- are they getting support and ammunition.



[00:30:30] PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Paula Newton.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for staying with us. I'm John Vause.

We'll take you through the headlines this hour.

Some of the world's largest companies have been targeted in a wide- scale cyber attack. Hackers used ransomware. A type of computer virus that essentially holds the computer hostage until its owner pays a fee. The attacks hit computers across Europe and Asia as well as the United States.

NEWTON: Venezuelan police unit have seized a helicopter and joined the country's opposition. President Nicolas Maduro blamed the group for what he called an armed terrorist attack on the Supreme Court in Caracas, but no one was hurt. The pilot demanded President Maduro's resignation saying he seeks for a coalition of military police and civil officials.

VAUSE: U.S. Senate Republicans have delayed a vote on the health care bill until after the July 4th recess. That's a setback from the promise President Trump made to repeal Obamacare. Not enough Republicans supported the legislation. Senate leaders are now trying to negotiate a deal.

NEWTON: For weeks, the Philippine military has struggled to free southern city from ISIS militants. Now (INAUDIBLE) is raising concern that those extremist could be a threat in fact to the entire region.

CNN's Ivan Watson joins us now from Hong Kong.

You know, Ivan, the president there in the Philippines has been quite blunt about how brutal as this has been yesterday. You know, you showed us how he apologized, and yet have they been able to set any kind of a timeline, especially given the hundreds of thousands of people that had been displaced by this.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There have been timelines and deadlines made for liberating this city of Marawi in the past. But those deadlines were passed and the military said it is not going to do that anymore.

In the meantime, the president in the Philippines Rodrigo Duterte had a Muslim Eid al-Fitr celebration at the Presidential Palace in Manila on Tuesday. He vowed that this shattered city would be rebuilt and that he would bring peace to the troubled southern island of Mindanao.

He is the first Philippines president from that island. And this crisis has erupted essentially in his backyard there.

But, yes, you're right. There are serious concerns that the threat of this ISIS in the Philippines insurgency could potentially go beyond far beyond the borders of the Philippines.


WATSON: This was the scene when ISIS militants stormed the city of Marawi in the Philippines on May 23rd, triggering the longest and deadliest urban battle the Philippines military has fought in decades and marking the appearance of a tenacious enemy with international ambitions.

SIDNEY JONES, TERRORISM ANALYST, INSTITUTE FOR POLICY ANALYSIS OF CONFLICT: The aim of taking over the territory was to have the credentials to announce the establishment of a formal province of Islamic State in Southeast Asia.

WATSON: Counter terrorism experts say ISIS in the Philippines is actually a coalition of local Islamist insurgent groups.

JONES: What's been so extraordinary about this coalition is that it bridges ethic and regional ties in a way that really hasn't happened in the Philippines before. WATSON: These are the top commanders of ISIS in the Philippines.

They filmed themselves planning their assault on Marawi. In this video later captured and distributed by the Philippines military.

Among the leaders, Abdullah and Omar Maute, two brothers from Marawi, who spent time living in the Middle East. Omar Maute also taught English and preached sermons at this mosque and Islamic school in Indonesia. Somewhere along the way he also became a violent extremist.

ROMMEL BANLAOI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PHILIPPINE INSTITUTE FOR PEACE, VIOLENCE AND TERRORISM RESEARCH: The terrorist threat in the Philippines is not only local in nature. It is also inherently regional because they share fighters, they share skills, they share ideas and they share human resources.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was very easy for us.

WATSON: This man is a former member of the one of the Philippines' most notorious Jihadi groups. In this exclusive interview with CNN, he says extremists have had decades to develop sophisticated international smuggling networks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can easily transport firearms and money, very easily.

WATSON: Between which countries?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Malaysia and the Philippines, through the southern back door.

[00:35:00] WATSON (voice-over): The back door, the islands between the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia, which smugglers navigate using small boats. Some of the foreign fighters battling in Marawi may have actually island-hopped their way here.

Recently, the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia announced plans for joint counterterror navy patrols and information sharing.


WATSON (voice-over): The month-long battle in Marawi, an international wakeup call to the terror threat growing in Southeast Asia.


Now Paula, a counterterrorism expert say there are signs that some of the fighters in Marawi may have simply instead of smuggling themselves across islands just taken commercial flights to the Philippines to join in this audacious attack by the insurgents. Another indicator of why it would be so crucial to establish intelligence sharing between the three countries in the region.

NEWTON: Yes. And it certainly shows a security challenge ahead of everyone there. Ivan Watson, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

VAUSE: Well, coming up here, if you are having trouble getting enough, you are not alone. And now Canadian University wants you to join the world's largest sleep study. Details in a moment.

NEWTON: Thank you. Thank you.


VAUSE: These days we know if you don't snooze, you lose. Not enough sleep can increase the risk of stroke or cancer. It can decrease fertility, the list goes on. Every day there seems to be a new study with a headline like this. "Sleep Deprivation is Killing You and Making You Fat in the Process."

Not enough sleep seems to be the one problem so many of us share regardless of position, income or country.

Here's Britain's Prince Andrew nodding off during a speech by China's president.

Japanese Prime Shinzo Abe and his finance minister catching a little shut eye during parliamentary question time.

Even Pope Benedict, no stranger to a public power nap.

So just how much sleep is enough?

Researchers at a university in Canada are having to answer that question and are looking for 100,000 volunteers for the world's biggest, most definitive study on sleep.

Adrian Owen is a neuroscientist at the Brain and Mind Institute in London, Ontario, and is leading that study. He joins us now.

So Professor, you've already got a lot of volunteers sign up online so you're getting a few results back right now about the impact a lack of sleep actually has on brain function.

So what are you finding out, I guess, in terms of memory and decision- making, that kind of thing?

DR. ADRIAN OWEN, BRAIN AND MIND INSTITUTE: Well, it's a little bit early to actually come up with any conclusions there. We have 25,000 people that have signed up in the last few hours. So we're doing very well.

People are reporting how much sleep they're getting and they're doing some cognitive tests online -- tests of memory, concentration, decision-making, problem solving, these sorts of things.

And as soon as we get even bigger numbers than that, we're going to start to pull the data apart and find out just how much sleep does anybody need to maintain normal daily function.

VAUSE: I guess the answer to that question, it really does depend on the person.

But I was reading that you believe that impairment caused by a lack of sleep is actually so serious that there is need for some kind of regulation when it comes to certain types of jobs?

OWEN: Oh, it's extremely serious. I mean, we're all getting less and less sleep just due to the demands of modern living. People are working longer hours. They're going into work earlier but they're not going to bed earlier.

We know that people are suffering and they're suffering from deficits that are affecting their performance. And what's interesting about it is that it's never really been carefully studied.

And of course now we can do it on a massive basis because we have the Internet. People can lie in their beds and do the tests if they want. And they can log in and we can find out how impaired they actually are.

VAUSE: Yes, they log in while they're in bed, when they should be sleeping, but I'll let that go.

What about napping?

Are you looking at napping? Because, you know, a lot of people nap. I've heard both positive and negative reports about the benefits of napping.

OWEN: Well, I think napping is a good thing. There was a recent research study that showed that napping during day for very short periods, if it's a high-quality nap, then actually it's good for you.

But we're really interested in the normal day and night cycle. How much sleep people need at night to function in order for them to function normally the following day.

I mean, we know from research already that 18 hours without sleep will seriously impair your cognitive function to a level that is not unlike being intoxicated. And 18 hours is not that long. There are plenty of people that get up early on a Friday morning, work a whole day, go out on Friday night and, before long, they have been up for 18 hours.

But do they stop doing the things they wouldn't do if they had been drinking?

VAUSE: OK, well, if anybody wants to volunteer for the study, it's pretty simple. The Web site is

And so once they sign up, what happens next?

OWEN: So they ask a few questions because we want to know a little bit about people. It's completely anonymous but we need to know about your sleeping habits and whether you're, for example, taking any drugs that might affect your sleep. Then you're going to do some of our tests. And these are a lot of fun. They're very short. They're set up like games. They'll test things like memory, decision-making, planning and problem solving.

And then you report how much sleep you get. And what we're going to do is we're going to gather the information from tens of thousands of people and give it back to each individual. So you'll see how your sleeping patterns affected your brain function but also how you relate to everybody else who has participated.

VAUSE: So why do you need 100,000 volunteers for this?

What will that tell you that another study with a much smaller sample wouldn't tell you?

OWEN: That's a great question. The answer is because people are tremendously variable. You know, there are famous examples of presidents and prime ministers that have claimed to have run countries on four hours of sleep, right?.

Well, could they really? Could they really do it effectively?

Often people almost treat it as a matter of pride, how they can get by with little sleep. On the other hand, some of us need 8-10 hours of sleep. And really to understand exactly how much sleep an individual needs and which brain process is specifically affected by lack of sleep, we need really large numbers of people.

And the great thing is just the sort of thing we can only do now, that we have so widespread access to the Internet.

VAUSE: Well, I encourage everyone to sign up. I think it's a great idea. I have yet to have a good night sleep in about the last 10 years.

Professor, I look forward to the results. Good to speak with you.

OWEN: Thanks very much. Thanks for having me on.

VAUSE: I get four hours, I must be totally drunk.

NEWTON: 10 years, seriously. You're not driving home.

VAUSE: Exactly.

NEWTON: You are watching NEWSROOM, L.A., I'm Paula Newton.

VAUSE: I'm John Vause. "World Sports" starts after the break.