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Medicaid Stumbling Block in Senate Health Care Bill; Democrats Weight in on Senate Health Care Bill; Police Helicopter Attacks Venezuelan Supreme Court; Interview with Sen. Shelley Moore Capito; Interview with Sen. Chris Van Hollen. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired June 28, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:43] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: When the Republican leadership and the U.S. Senate unveiled their health care plan last week, President Trump said that Republicans couldn't afford to lose even one vote if they wanted to get it passed. But at last count, here at CNN, there are now nine Republican Senators who say they oppose the bill as written right now.

Among them is West Virginia Senator Shelley Moore Capito, who joins us now.

Senator, thanks for much for joining us.

SEN. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, (R), WEST VIRGINIA: Thank you.

BLITZER: You're still a "no" as we speak right now?

CAPITO: Absolutely. Yes, I am.

BLITZER: And I assume one of the reasons is about 30 percent of the population of your home state of West Virginia is on Medicaid. And you don't like these cuts in projected growth of Medicaid. Is that right?

CAPITO: I am very concerned about what this bill does with Medicaid. We have an expanded Medicaid population in West Virginia of about 180,000. Forty percent of the spending in that area goes for opioid abuse and drug issues. That's a major issue in our state, as it is in many states. And I'm totally unsatisfied with how this bill would keep coverage for those folks both in the opioid and other areas of health care. So I've been pushing for better growth rates, or better coverage in the opioid and drug abuse area.

BLITZER: Looking for more money, basically.

(CROSSSTALK)

BLITZER: The money is critically important. We have done some research, at CNN. Not only in West Virginia but all over the country, Medicaid is so important to so many Americans. It covers more than 70 million low-income Americans, one in five Americans, Medicaid. Four in 10 American children, 50 percent of children born in the United States, Medicaid helps pay for that. 10 million Americans with disabilities, two-thirds of all Americans in nursing homes depend on Medicaid. It provides additional treatment all around.

The CBO, the Congressional Budget Office, estimates that the current Republican Senate bill will reduce the growth of Medicaid over the next 10 years by $772 billion.

What would it take for you to go ahead and say that I can live with a reduction in Medicaid spending by how much? How much would they have to improve that?

CAPITO: I don't have a dollar figure for you here. But what I can tell you is that it has to be sufficient. There are reforms building into this bill, which I think Medicaid needs reforms. I think that there are areas where we can improve. I think if we give the governors of states the ability to make their own decisions, to make their Medicaid dollars go farther and more creatively, I think what we're seeing across the country in states that have done that, it can work.

BLITZER: Let me -- Let's say they come up with a new plan, Mitch McConnell, the Republican leadership in the Senate --

CAPITO: Yes.

BLITZER: -- and it reduces the rate of growth by $500 billion over 10 years, would that be acceptable to you --

CAPITO: Well, what I want to --

BLITZER: -- instead of $800 billion?

CAPITO: What I want to see is a growth rate that matches what we believe the growth rate of Medicaid will be. Or anywhere in the neighborhood. Right now, if you look statistically at the end of that 10-year period, we're looking at a growth rate that is very insufficient as to what the projected growth of Medicaid is.

BLITZER: They want to change the growth rate to inflation. Forget about the costs --

CAPITO: The medical costs.

BLITZER: -- the medical costs, which are clearly increasing.

CAPITO: And the House bill, I mean, we came in under the House bill, which I don't understand that. The House bill has a special emphasis on the aging and on the disabled, which are the higher costs. Seventy percent of our West Virginia seniors are on Medicaid, in nursing homes. This is important coverage for us.

[13:35:09] BLITZER: I want you to listen to what your Republican colleague, Susan Collins, of Maine, said about the president's involvement in all of this. I know you were at that meeting with the president yesterday.

CAPITO: I was.

BLITZER: Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R), MAINE: It has been a challenge to him to learn how to interact with Congress and how to push this agenda forward. The president -- I wish the president would had started with infrastructure, which has bipartisan support, instead of tackling politically divisive and a technically complex issue like health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you agree with the Senator?

CAPITO: Well, I don't want to question the legislative strategy. I do think infrastructure will be something we can join together in. And I can see why she's saying that. I thought yesterday, the president was very engaged in, because I think he realized how different the factions are within our conference. And I think what we decided was, I think what he could see, if we put more money into the program -- he said this repeatedly -- put more money into the program to help those at the lower end of the spectrum who need that safety net.

BLITZER: Your Republican colleagues don't want to put more money. They want to save money.

(CROSSTALK)

CAPITO: -- the president. I think that's going to --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Because he promised repeatedly during the campaign there would be no cuts to Social Security, no cuts to Medicare, no cuts to Medicaid. Did somebody remind him during that closed-door meeting at the White House yesterday, you made a commitment to the American people, no cuts in Medicaid. This legislation, according to the Congressional Budget Office, in the Senate, cuts the growth of Medicaid by $772 billion.

CAPITO: That was part of the discussion.

BLITZER: Well, what did he say?

CAPITO: That's what he was saying. I believe that's what he was saying, let's put more money into it. Let's make sure that people who are moving off of Medicaid are going to have, or in Medicaid, are going to sufficient resources to move forward. He repeatedly said that. So I found him to be quite engaged. Maybe not into the details of every little thing but into the bigger picture of why this is important and why we need to fix it.

BLITZER: So bottom line, do you see yourself getting to "yes?" CAPITO: I can't say right now. I am still very much a "no." I was a

"no" last week. I had planned to come out "no" before they announced they were going to postpone it. I was going to do it after lunch, and sort of got pushed off on that when they postponed the vote. But I wasn't alone because I think that came out yesterday. We're working hard on it, on the opioid, on the Medicaid issue, and also to make sure that those subsidies for folks who really need them are going to be there. I live in a rural state, a rural state. If you're 64 years old, living in West Virginia, not making much money, the Senate bill hurts you. I didn't come to West Virginia to hurt people. I didn't come to Washington to hurt people.

BLITZER: By the way, I don't know if you saw some protesters outside some Senators offices --

CAPITO: I did.

BLITZER: -- up on the Hill. The capitol police are coming in. Take a look at these pictures. You can see it right there. They're removing these protesters. These are people who are deeply worried about these Medicaid cuts and other aspects of the Republican legislation.

You're heading back to West Virginia. We'll see you after the July 4th weekend.

CAPITO: Sounds great.

BLITZER: You'll come back and join us?

CAPITO: Sure.

BLITZER: Thanks so much for joining us.

CAPITO: Thank you. Thank you.

BLITZER: Senator Shelley Moore Capito, of West Virginia.

After the break, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, of Maryland, he's standing by live to join us. What does he think can be done to win both parties' support for comprehensive health care reform? Is it too late? We'll ask him.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:23:57] BLITZER: We're monitoring the situation unfolding up on Capitol Hill. You're looking at live pictures. Protesters have camped out inside the office of Senator Marco Rubio, of Florida. These Senators are meeting to try to revamp their stalled Senate health care bill. We have seen these protesters and others being removed by Capitol Hill police outside various Republican Senators' offices. We'll continue to monitor this developing story up on Capitol Hill. Meanwhile, Republicans are working behind closed doors as they try to

move forward on a health care bill. Democrats, in the meantime, are also weighing in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D), MARYLAND: Yogi Berra had some good advice when said, it's not over until it's over. We had a little bit of preliminary good news that they delayed the week this week.

(CHEERING)

VAN HOLLEN: But that means that we've got to fight even harder over the Fourth of July and every day until we bury this atrocious bill.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, of Maryland, who is joining us now live from Capitol Hill. He's the chair of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, also on the Appropriations Committee.

Senator, thank you for joining us.

VAN HOLLEN: It's good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: So what do you think it's going to take to resolve this, once and for all, whether or not the bill passes or fails?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, Wolf, first of all, Senate Republicans need to put aside their effort to totally blow up the entire Affordable Care Act. Including many parts of it that are working really well. And then work with Democrats to improve those parts of the Affordable Care Act that need to be improved, specifically many of the exchanges. But right now, their main focus has been on dramatic cuts to Medicaid. Even as you indicated during the campaign, Trump tweeted that he wasn't going to cut Medicaid at all. And the reason they want to cut Medicaid by over $770 million is to be able to give take cuts to wealthy people. Warren Buffett just said the other days he is going to get something like a $680,000 a year tax cut. By cutting Medicaid by tens of billions of dollars, they give those tax cuts in a way that doesn't increase the debt. That has nothing to do with improving health care. It has to do with giving tax breaks to wealthy people. So put that aside, and let's focus on improving the exchanges. And there are many practical things we can do in that regard.

[13:45:30] BLITZER: As far as buying cooperation between Republicans and Democrats, I want you to listen carefully to what Republican Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, and Ron Johnson, of Wisconsin, have said in the last 24 hours. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: Either Republicans will agree to change the status quo or the markets will continue to collapse. And we'll have to sit down with Senator Schumer. And my suspicious is that any negotiation with the Democrats would contain none of the reforms that we would like to make.

SEN. RON JOHNSON, (R), WISCONSIN: I wish we were doing this on a bipartisan basis. I think it is a mistake, right away, saying that we're going to do this partisan. That's where we're at. May we'll do our partisan bill. Democrats do theirs. We're not going to fix all those problems. And maybe everyone will sit down and let's, long term, fix the health care system. Let's start controlling the health care costs. But you don't do that with a single-payor system. You do that by reinjecting consumer-driven, free-market competition. That's what restrains costs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The majority leader, Mitch McConnell, said it would be a waste of time to work with the Democrats because you're not willing to reform the markets or Medicaid. And those are two basic principles that the Republicans have.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, that's nonsense that we're not willing to work with Republicans to improve those parts of the Affordable Care Act that need improving. It's actually true that we're not going to join with the Republicans in blowing up parts of the Affordable Care Act that are working. By the way, Medicaid already has lots of flexibility. It was interesting to hear Senator Capito refer to those Republicans governors that have made creative use of the current Medicaid system. That's because the current Medicaid system allows lots of flexibility, including what we're using in our state of Maryland.

But with respect to the exchanges, we can address those. But we can't address them when Donald Trump, on his first day in office, lit a fuse to try to detonate them. In Maryland -- and Mitch McConnell has talked about this -- Blue Cross/Blue Shield, our largest insurer, is asking for a 50 percent premium hike. And that is due to the actions that President Trump took in not enforcing the individual mandate. And the actions that Republican took. If Republicans would stop making the problem harder and work with us to fix it, there are common sense things we can do. And I will say, you know, I heard -- I think it was Senator Johnson say he didn't want to do a public option. But a public option within the exchanges, would, number one, guarantee insurance coverage anywhere in the country. Number two, create more competition and drive down premiums. And number three, the CBO says it will drive down the taxpayer money, because if you drive down the costs, the costs of the public tax credits goes down. So I don't know why they want to reject things like that out of hand.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting you're moving closer to what Senator Bernie Sanders has long proposed, what he calls that single-payer option?

VAN HOLLEN: Wolf I have always supported the idea of having a public option, a Medicare-for-all choice, within the Affordable Care Act exchanges. And I actually think that can give us a good experience and idea as to whether he should expand it. We already have a public option for Medicare for people over 65. We have a public option for Medicaid. And it's everybody else in the middle that doesn't have employer covered insurance that gets squeezed. So, step one, let's improve the exchanges. Let's introduce a public option and see how it works, and go from there. But I think we need to be focused on 2018 and 2019. And that means fixing the exchanges. And that's a practical idea for helping the exchanges.

BLITZER: Senator Chris Van Hollen, of Maryland, thank you for joining us.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you. Thanks, Wolf.

[13:49:28] BLITZER: Coming up, a police helicopter is used to launch a daring attack on the Venezuelan Supreme Court, lobbing grenades onto the building. We have details and a live report. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro is calling it an armed terrorist attack. Right now, security forces are hunting down a rogue police officer. He's suspected of stealing a helicopter, attacking the Venezuelan Supreme Court building and the interior ministry and dropping grenades. President Maduro says no one was injured.

Let's go to our international correspondent, Patrick Oppmann, monitoring the situation from Havana, because CNN Espanol has been taken off the airways in Venezuela, repeatedly. We've been asking for visas, waivers to get into the country.

Patrick, do we know the name of the suspect and what prompted him to do this?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we do, Wolf. His name is Oscar Perez. He's a police officer. And even for the standards of Venezuela, a country that has been racked by violent protests for weeks, the scene yesterday of a police officer in a helicopter bombing parts of downtown Caracas were shocking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OPPMANN (voice-over): Called a coup attempt by Venezuela's government, the attackers rained down grenades and gunfire on government buildings in the capital city of Caracas.

(EXPLOSION)

OPPMANN: No one appeared to be injured, but the aerial bombardment further unsettled a country already on the brink.

(SHOUTING)

OPPMANN: For roughly three months, protesters have clashed with police, enraged over the lack of food and medicine, and the socialist government's refusal to call elections. At least 75 people have died in the unrest. Some Venezuelans have called for the country's military and security

forces to step in and end the chaos in the oil-rich country.

OSCAR PEREZ, POLICE OFFICER BLAMED FOR GRENADE ATTACK: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

[13:55:11] OPPMANN: The government blames the attack on this man. Before the attack, he took to social media and identified himself as Oscar Perez, a police officer and a pilot. He demanded that Maduro step down.

"This combat is not with the rest of the state security forces," he says. "It's against the impunity imposed by this government against the tyranny."

Following Tuesday's attack, Maduro vowed to respond to violence with violence.

"Venezuela was plunged into chaos and violence, the revolution destroyed, we would go to combat," he says. "We would never give up. And that couldn't be done with votes. We would do with weapons. We would liberate the fatherland with weapons."

But some in Venezuela's opposition wonder if the helicopter attack wasn't a set-up to justify a heavier hand from the government. Among other things, pointing to the fact that no one was killed. And the chopper circled the capital for about two hours and was not shot down.

The man who identified himself as a pilot said he's not affiliated with any opposition group. But he frequently posts on Instagram where he now has hundreds of thousands of followers. Reportedly, a K-9 trainer, in this view, Perez jumps from a helicopter with a German shepherd strapped to his chest. In another, he uses a mirror meant to apply make-up to shoot out a target over his shoulder.

(GUNFIRE)

PEREZ: (SPEAKING FORIEGN LANGUAGE)

OPPMANN: And in 2015, Perez even played the role of a hero cop in the movie, "Suspended Death."

Venezuelan officials have vowed to hunt him down. Whatever his true motives, this would be revolutionary. He's now starring in the role of a lifetime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OPPMANN: And, Wolf, few expect the situation in Venezuela to improve. Add to that turmoil, now, a nationwide manhunt for a rogue police officer and a stolen helicopter -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Pretty amazing stuff.

Patrick Oppmann, reporting for us from Havana. Thank you so much.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is coming up next.

For our viewers in north America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:04] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. thank you for being with me on this Wednesday. You're watching CNN.

Let me tell you what's happening right now. The White House daily briefing is underway. Once again, the administration choosing not to let --