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World Leaders Gather For G20 In Hamburg; Protest In Germany As Trump Meets With Merkel; Canadian Foreign Minister Postwar Order Under Strain; Turkey's Long Walk For Justice. Aired 11-11:30p ET

Aired July 6, 2017 - 23:00:00   ET


[23:01:25] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, in Warsaw, President Trump declared the future of the west is at risk. Will his European allies

agree as they all get ready to meet in Hamburg for his first G20 and first big meeting with President Putin.

A live report amid many protests from Dan Merica in Hamburg, and journalist Bartosz Wielinski in Warsaw.

Also ahead the Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, her country stepping in, where America may be stepping back.


CHRYSTIA FREELAND CANADIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: All this international world order stuff, that's only of concern to global elite, we shouldn't be

focussing on these esoteric abstract issues. Do they matter to me? Absolutely, they matter to you.


AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone. And welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

President Trump is in Hamburg, Germany. And the beginning of the G20 summit was met not just with his handshake with Angela Merkel but with the

usual G20 running battles in the street between protesters and the police.

This was President Trump's first port of call. Rather his second port. First one was in Poland. Hoping for friendly turf with President Andrzej

Duda's right-wing government. Friendly crowds were gathered for his speech but he was also greeted by this on Warsaw's most prominent building.

It said, no Trump. Yes, Paris. Greenpeace stunt protesting America's withdraw from the global climate accord.

Ironically President Trump did raise Copernicus the polish scientist who many hundreds of years ago discovered that planets orbit the sun, not the

earth. He restated his commitment to NATO's collective defense but a day ahead of meeting President Putin for the very first time. Trump repeated

his doubts that Russia had tried to discredit the American election. And swing it for him.


DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I think it was Russia. But I think it was probably other people and/or countries. And I see nothing wrong

with that statement. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure.


AMANPOUR: Thereby publicly challenging his own intelligence agencies just before meeting President Putin. Trump also took time to lash out at the

American media, including this network. Which is worrying as the polish government is also restricting its media and its independence judiciary.


TRUMP: They have been fake news for a long time. They've been covering me in a very -- a very dishonest way. Do you have that also, by wait, Mr.



AMANPOUR: More on Poland in a moment. But first to Hamburg where President Trump is preparing for his first G20 summit. As I said, there

are many, many battles in the streets. The usual G20 display of anti- globalization protesters. Dan Merica joins me from Hamburg. Dan, what are you seeing on the street, what is the focus of this protest?

DAN MERICA, CNN DIGITAL REPORTER: Hi Christiane it really is a tale of two visits for President Trump here in Europe. It was planned that he would go

to Poland first. And really they wanted to warm him up and give him a warm reception. That's exactly what happened.

[23:05:07] The leading party of Poland actually bussed people into Warsaw to attend this speech earlier today. And what you got was really a

campaign rally feel. Where they were chanting Donald Trump name in the street of Warsaw and you could see visibly the President responded to that.

Now that change when you touchdown here in Hamburg, if I look over on my right shoulder, we're hearing small pops, we're seeing water cannons and

some sort of smoke or tear gas kind of emanating from streets.

As you note, those are protests that follow G20 everywhere but there are some specifically targeted at President Trump. And this meeting kicked off

with a short informal meeting with Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor were they shared a handshake. And that wouldn't be news for other

meetings. But it is news but a they didn't do so during their Oval Office meeting.

And they really set a path towards an icy relationship between the two. But the most important meeting for President Trump as you noted, is

tomorrow's meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Everyone, both in the United States and Russia and world over, will be watching that meeting. Not just for what they say but for the optics of

it. For body language. Donald Trump shake his hand? Is he standing over Putin using his height?

Are they smiling, are they laughing? All of that will be analyzed and the White House is well aware of that. They're going into this G20 weekend

knowing that the meeting with Putin will be the most analyzed and really overanalyzed meeting and sort of defying his entire weekend here in


AMANPOUR: Dan Merica thanks for Joining us from Hamburg. And of course one cannot underestimate the importance of that meeting given the massive,

not just political issues in the United States, but the geopolitical issues that separate Putin and the west.

Let us turn now to Warsaw for reaction to President Trump's speech earlier in the day. Bartosz Wielinski is the editor, the foreign editor of the

Polish daily, Gazeta Wyborcza, in an op-ed for the "New York Times" this week.

He called on the Trump administration to focus on the erosion of democracy in Poland and he joins me now.

Welcome to the program Bartosz. Let me start by asking you, was the speech of Donald Trump all that you expected? Was it the right speech hitting the

right tones?

BARTOSZ WIELINSKI, FOREIGN EDITOR, GAZETA WYBORCZA: Now, good evening. Of course it was not. I have no illusion that Donald Trump would read New

York Times and so let him suggest any contents of his page.

Of course he didn't spoke about the rule of law which is being violated in Poland and he is not speaking about it abandoning the part of democracy of

Poland. He has just gave us a very disappointing speech. Because he was speaking a lot about policies which is of course great entire world was

listening to the U.S. President talking about Warsaw, surprising that source it is of Germans and soviets done here in Warsaw and entire country

during Second World War.

But we didn't here with the global leader. We didn't here the leader of the free worlds. He was supposed to set an agenda for his presidency. His

speech in Warsaw was his first major speech abroad United States. And he really didn't deliver anything.

But you know slogans, empty words about greatness of west, about readiness to confront some unknown enemies of our civilization and about importance

of family, importance of traditional values. I didn't hear today the President of super power. Unfortunately. I regret that.

AMANPOUR: Can I ask you before getting to your op-ed, he did talk about, you know, criticizing Russia's as he called it destabilizing moves in

Ukraine and for supporting the hostile regime such as Syria and Iran. Was that something you are hoping to hear? Did that go far enough?

WIELINSKI: Yes. But, you know, I could compare Donald Trump to Barack Obama in 2014. Into Obama liberated of much more about Russian issue,

Ukraine an issue. And Donald Trump just mentioned Russia in two or three sentences.

Well, it's not quite expected before. For me he could have said more. But of course, I understand that his -- he was before talking to Vladimir Putin

in Hamburg and he didn't want to spoil the grant of those well, although admitting.

But actually, there was a -- so little complete well content in his speech. That was not present a speech I was expecting.

AMANPOUR: Well, OK. Beyond your disappointment, you did write an op-ed on the state of democracy in Poland. You wrote it for the "New York Times." I

wonder and you said, you know, the government's first victim was Poland's constitutional tribunal. And you're talking about the push back on the

independent judiciary on the media and everything.

[23:10:04] How did your op-ed, how did your public declaration go down in your home country? In Warsaw, where you are right now?

WIELINSKI: Well, you know, Polish scientist divided, this is kind of strive in Poland. Other some said is called civil war and still part of

Polish scientist anti-governmental and parties his supporting his government. And this part which is supporting the government called me a

traitor. Just like that. I betrayed my homeland but publishing an article, critical article in America media outlets.

There was some TV shows in public television which is now resembling Russian Turkish propaganda networks. And they called me Nazi collaborator.

Just imagine my family was also victim of Germans since Second World War. They were trying to have prosecuted jurors and suddenly someone called me a

Nazi collaborator. Because I have contributed for New York Times. It is unheard.

AMANPOUR: Well, that is extremely harsh and unacceptable.

WIELINSKI: Well, what can I say more?

AMANPOUR: Well, as you write you say, it's very harsh, it's unacceptable, and it's improper. But can I ask you, what do you think the political

fall-out will be of President Trump, you know, just before he goes to meet the wider E.U. family and wider G20 family? What will the rest of Europe

take from his very warm embrace of the polish government as they are trying to get the polish government actually to stick to its democratic mandates?

WIELINSKI: Yes. Well, the outcome of this visit, would probably be that the relations between Poland and European Union, which gets worse, because

the polish government would feel encouraged by support of Donald Trump, by all of his warm words. They would feel encouraged something to resist.

Somehow to resist in Europe and somehow to push then again dollar (ph) forward and make other steps against judiciary, against free media, against

open society.

AMANPOUR: Bartosz Wielinski, thank you so much for joining us from Warsaw.

WIELINSKI: OK. Thank you.

AMANPOUR: And as we said, Greenpeace has chided President Trump for abandoning the Paris climate accords. But Poland's environmental record

came under fire this week, too. UNESCO urging it to preserve its heritage site and stop logging its ancient and untouched prime evil forest.

Forging ahead on climate, immigration and trade, Canada. Can it fill America's big shoes? The Canadian Foreign Minister, Chrystia Freeland, on

a world turning upside down. That's next.


[23:15:10] AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. As president Trump arrives in Hamburg for the G20 summit, Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister

Chrystia Freeland says the United States has come to the question the worth of its mantle of global leadership.

Forcing countries like hers to forge a new footing in a world where long standing practices are challenged. Under President Trump for instance,

free trade. I spoke with the foreign minister earlier as she passed through London on her way to the G20 summit.


AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister, welcome to the program.

FREELAND: It's great to be with you Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Here we are on the eve of the G20, the President is in Europe. You have just written or made a speech to your parliament in which you said

international relationships that it seemed imputable for 70 years are being called into question. Did you ever think you would have to make that kind

of state? And what do you precisely mean?

FREELAND: Well, I think a lot of us are surprised at the extent to which the post-war multilateral order is seeming to creek and shake right now.

And what a central point of my speech was really to remind Canadians how great that post-war international order has been.

You know the past 70 years since the end of the Second World War for western countries have been a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity.

Canada was very proud of our contribution to the Second World War and if the role we played in building up those threatens wood institutions.

And what I would say to Canadians is these were great institutions. That rules based international order has really worked.

Let's renew it for sure. We need to make it fit for perfect to the 21st century and that's going to take some work.

AMANPOUR: It seems the sub takes is you are worried like many other allies that the United States is abandoning its historic role in propping up this

post-World War era. Even the Vice President of Iraq had the following to say to me, let's listen, about American leadership in the world.


AYAD ALLAWI, VICE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ: Areas (ph) of action when the overall leadership in the world and the America needs to speed up their -- to get

after they realize an international power. Important international power.


AMANPOUR: What's your reaction?

FREELAND: One of the things I said and I really thought about this as I was writing this speech, is said thank you to our American friends and

neighbors for everything they've done since the Second World War.

Now going forward from Canada's perspective, the U.S. role in the international order is absolutely essential. You know, you're a

journalist, I used to be a journalist. I watch your show. I read the papers. It's no secret to anyone that there were during the election

campaign a lot of voices in the U.S. and in other countries too.

We're hearing Britain we heard those voices in Britain. We heard those voices in many European election campaigns saying, you know, all this

international world order stuff, that's only of concern to global elites. We shouldn't be focussing on these esoteric abstract issues. Do they

really make a difference to me?

And part of my argument that I made in my speech that our government is making to Canadians is absolutely they matter to you.

AMANPOUR: Given that this is coming about a month off to G7, when the allies, it can be reliably reported were disappointed by President Trump,

whether it was his lack of commitment for Article 5 in NATO, whether of course the withdraw from the climate and all these sort of threats of trade

and protectionism and the rest, what does President Trump need to do to repair, resolve, consolidate relations as you know, super power leader with

his allies?

FREELAND: You've talked about Paris accords. And that announcement by the U.S. came after the G7 and what the prime minister said and I think what

most Canadians feel we even had a vote in parliament that was very, very strongly supported supporting the Paris accords.

We were disappointed by that U.S. decision. We as a government and really more broadly as a country really acknowledge and see the effective climate

change and you and I spoke earlier about the importance of a rules based international order.

There is no challenge which necessitates more international action than climate change, right? That something we all have to work on together.

And we don't have a planet B. This is our only planet. And we have -- we have to protect this planet to together. So we were disappointed by that


[23:20:07] AMANPOUR: What does Canada think of this bilateral, this unusual thing that's going to happen between Trump and Putin? It's the

first time in 2 1/2 years. And it comes as we all know amid huge tensions.

FREELAND: When it comes to Russia, the Canadian position is very clear. We are very clear in condemning the invasion and annexation of Crimea.

We're very clear in condemning Russia's continued action in the Donbass.

We are very clear in condemning Russian support for the Assad regime. And I think is important to say directly to Russia, to President Putin, that we

believe Russia bears moral responsibility for that vile use of chemical weapons.

What Canada believes is of course dialogue is really important too. I spent some time speaking with Sergey Lavrov the foreign minister at the

Arctic Council meeting. That is a space where we have a shared interest.

And you know, I think we really believe that when you disagree with the country, that's probably a time you need to engage more energetically.

AMANPOUR: So regarding Ukraine, that's going to be a big part of the meeting, we understand. And people are going to wonder whether Donald

Trump is going to somehow signal that sanctions may be lifted. It'll some kind of softening of the Western position. I want to put what Sergey

Lavrov said about recent interventions.

"I have read and heard much criticism regarding our decision to join the fight in Donbass and in Syria. Donbass is in Ukraine as we all we know.

Do you take that as an official Russian admission that they were there?

FREELAND: Well, certainly very interesting isn't Christiane. And I'm very glad that you're highlighting that and pointing it out. I think those were

some very interesting words about the Donbass to hear from Sergey Lavrov.

Of course it is no secret to anyone watching what's actually happening that Russia is very involved in the illegal activity in Donbass.

And, you know, I suppose it's no bad thing to have that be publicly admitted. I think it's important to really understand why the Russian

behavior in Ukraine is so wrong. And why it is so important for the west to take a strong position as it has done.

AMANPOUR: I want to move on to NAFTA. What does Canada expect to be the result of President Trump talking about ripping it up, doing this, doing

that? What do you think is going to happen?

FREELAND: What all three leaders, what all three leaders NAFTA leaders have said, President Netanyahu, President Trump, Prime Minister Trudeau, is

that we look forward to modernizing NAFTA has been around for more than two decades.

As economies involved, trade agreements need to as well. Canada is a trading nation. We really believe in open trade and we believe that that

benefits everybody and we really think -- we're optimistic about it. We see trade as win/win.

Now having said that, our government is particular also acknowledges that there are real problems with how the 21st century globalized technology

driven economy is working. And in a lot of countries, very much including Canada, people in the middle class have felt betrayed. And they felt left


When people have that feeling, it's the easiest thing in the world to do, is to blame foreigners. You know, blame your fiendish trading partners or

blame immigrants. Our view is that is profoundly the wrong answer.

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, thank you much, indeed.

FREELAND: Great to talk to you Christiane.


AMANPOUR: So the G20 can always be relied upon for protests wherever it's held. And Hamburg of course is no different.

[23:24:06] Next, we imagine Turkish demonstrators making a statement by crossing part of their country on foot. That's next.


AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, with protesters pushing back against Poland's government, and demonstrators hitting the streets of Hamburg, as

the G20 assembled, imagine a world fighting for democracy with every single step. In turkey, a bold protest march from Ankara to Istanbul is

captivating the nation.

It started a few weeks ago by Turkish main opposition. The justice march was triggered by the arrest of a lawmaker for allegedly leaking documents

to the press. So far thousands have joined the 450-kilometer march from Turkey's capital to its city on the bus stop (ph).

There may be many different causes but it all adds up to opposition against President Erdogan policies. Reaction is being mixed in the towns of the

protesters want a troop. Some cheer and wave. But joining on the marchers for a time. But others jeer and chant Erdogan's name.

One time manure was dumped by motel where march were staying. The Turkish leader himself says participating in the march could be seen as treason.

But it hasn't dampened the long walk for justice with less than a hundred kilometers to go. On Sunday, rally is planned in Istanbul if the state

allows it as the journey is completed.

That's it for our program tonight. And remember you can always listen to our Podcast. See us online at and follow me on Facebook and


Thanks for watching and good-bye from London.