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Russian Election Meddling; North Korean Missile Threat; Trump/Merkel Finish Meeting. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired July 6, 2017 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[13:00:010] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm John Berman in New York. Wolf Blitzer is off today. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks so much for joining us. From a warm embrace in Poland to a possible cold shoulder in Germany. President Trump is in Hamburg for the G20 summit. He and German Chancellor Angela Merkel right now, they are wrapping up a bilateral meeting, they've been behind closed doors for almost an hour right now. We might hear or see them very shortly. The two leaders, they have very starkly different views on a key range of issues from climate change, to immigration, to trade. All of this comes on the heels of the president's trip to Poland where he sent conflicting messages. In a news conference, he sewed doubt about whether the Russians meddled in the 2016 election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it was Russia, but I think it was probably other people and/or countries and I see nothing wrong with that statement. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Nobody really knows. That's what he said in a press conference but later, he issued his strongest words yet to Moscow for what he called their destabilizes activities around the world. I want to bring in CNN's Frederik Pleitgen who's on the phone for us right now from Hamburg. And again, Fred, we're waiting to hear the fruits of this meeting from German Chancellor Angela Merkel and President Trump. Any word yet about if that is broken up and what they discussed?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're not sure whether it's broken up yet, John. We do know that he's been in that meeting, I would say for almost an hour now. Certainly it will be interesting to see what he's going to say or what both of them or if they're actually to say anything. The other thing that's going on and where actually I am right now is at the main anti-G20 demonstration which is now marching towards the very venue where we believe that meeting is taking place. You're absolutely right. It's a lot less of a warm welcome that he's receiving here than he did in Poland.
In fact, there's around 10,000 protestors right now that are on the move there. They obviously have a lot of issues with some of the policies of the Trump administration and Angela Merkel did as well. She was also highly critical in some newspaper articles in the run-up to this meeting that's taking place today saying that the two did not see eye-to-eye especially on trade and on migration as well. And of course the environment. It'd be very interesting to see what those two leaders have to say when they come out of that meeting, if indeed they make remarks at all, John.
BERMAN: All right. Frederik Pleitgen for us in Hamburg. Again, keep us posted if you hear from what is going on inside that meeting. In the meantime, joining me former foreign policy adviser to President George W. Bush Paul Bonicelli, former NASA Security Council staffer under President Obama, Charles Kupchan, and CNN Political Analyst and Washington Bureau Chief for The Daily Beast, Jackie Kucinich. It's been a news-packed day already. We have the president questioning the intelligence over the Russian meddling in the election but then he gave a speech in Warsaw, right? Really on the border with Russia and for the first time in Europe, he reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to Article 5 of NATO collective security. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Those who would criticize our tough stance, I would point out that the United States has demonstrated not merely with words but with its actions that we stand firmly behind Article 5, the mutual defense commitment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Paul, many NATO members were hoping that would be a statement he would make in May at the actual NATO meeting. How important was it for him to make it now just before his arrival in Germany?
PAUL BONICELLI, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, REGENT UNIVERSITY: I think it was very important. It was the timing that he wanted. I think people that doubted that he supported Article 5 were off base. He was never not going to be supportive of NATO and our role in it but the president is a negotiator. He is like (INAUDIBLE) Kissinger, he sets the context in which he's going to have a negotiation and he tries to bring people to the place he wants them so that he can have his way. That's normal. Every nation wants to have its own way except in the previous administration, we were always looking for a global consensus. Now every nation is honestly seeking its own interests and I think that's what the president is doing here.
BERMAN: Charles, in addition to, you know, once again stating out loud in Europe which is significant, his commitment to Article 5 of NATO, he really issued his strongest words yet to Russia about what he called their destabilizing activities in Ukraine, Syria, around the world. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We urge Russia to cease its destabilizing activities in Ukraine and elsewhere and its support for hostile regimes, including Syria and Iran. And to instead join the community of responsible nations in our fight against common enemies and in defense of civilization itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That's really, Charles, is further than he has gone before in his direct out loud critique of Russia. How important is it that the president did that on the eve of his meeting with Vladimir Putin?
[13:05:16] CHARLES KUPCHAN, PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, I think, you know, this in many respects was his second bite at the apple because the first trip didn't go so well and he did affirm his sport for Article 5. And you can't go to Poland and not talk about the Russian threat because they are obsessed with it. So, he checked that box as well. The two things that I found in the speech a little puzzling was his talk about defending the west because it made me wonder which west is he talking about, because some of his own policies undermine western values like open trade, like support for democrats as opposed to people like Putin.
And the other thing is he didn't say anything about the European Union, European integration. In fact, he seemed to take a couple digs at it. He talked about a strong independence sovereign alliance of nations. Not an integrated Europe. And he also talked about bureaucrats which in Europe is really a catchphrase for the E.U. So it was a bit strange that he seemed to go to the heart of Europe and say nothing positive about the project of European integration.
BERMAN: I want to talk about that in just a minute. It get to the message he was sending overall to Europe. But Jackie, before we get to that, I want to get to the conflicting themes about Russian meddling. On the one hand, he urged Russia to stop their destabilizing activities, we heard that sound. On the other hand, he didn't seem to include Russian meddling in elections as one of those destabilizing activities and he made that rather jarring statement at the press conference, nobody knows for sure whether Russia meddled the election. His intelligence seem to say they know for sure.
JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN ANALYST: Well, right. I mean, this is - this isn't the first time the president has said this obviously because he looks at - you know, as long as this has been a part of the conversation, he's looked at the Russian meddling as a direct line to his credibility or his legitimacy as the president. And he sees the two are intertwined. So he's not really inclined to -- he's not looking at the bigger picture about how this was an attack on the United States system of elections. Rather, he is looking at it more internally.
The biggest question is how much of this including his criticism, his actual criticisms of Russia that were in the speech, how much of this is going to be part of the conversation with Vladimir Putin tomorrow? What will he bring up? Because he has with some of the United States allies, he has talked fairly tough. Will he do that with Vladimir Putin in front of him? We'll have to see.
BERMAN: I should tell people, look at live pictures right now of protests in Hamburg, Germany. Our Frederik Pleitgen is out there in the streets told us about 10,000 people were out there protesting the G20 summit. As far as I can tell, these are the types of protestors who gather at many of these international meetings. No word yet on it if they have any specific protests beyond things like globalization, beyond the capitalization that they often do at these events. Right now, the pictures we're seeing things look fairly peaceful but we will keep our eyes on them throughout this discussion.
Paul, back to what the president has been saying. The idea that he sewed out about whether Russia meddled in the election, the idea that he questioned the free press and he did this, you know, in Europe. Is that not handing Vladimir Putin exactly what he wants on the eve of their big meeting?
BONICELLI: I don't think so. Not when he's been one of the toughest presidents on Russia we've had in the last eight years. I mean, he's the one bombing his allies in Syria, he's the one trying to destroy the oil - the energy market for Russia. So, I think it's very well calibrated to say we can have a deal as long as U.S. interests are taken care of. But I'm not interested in fights just to have fights. That's why the president's never going to obsess over the comments about whether or not Russia meddled or not. I think he's said what he's said in order to show that he doesn't think that's the most important issue on the table. It's the things that he's dealing with.
And the western civilization stuff is really important. The poles and the three seas nation, that's very important to them to hear that what they've joined, they rejoined, Europe is going to be the most important thing. And that is the sovereignty of nation states and looking after their interests together.
BERMAN: Charles, do you agree with what you just heard that Vladimir Putin will see President Trump as being harder on Russia than previous U.S. presidents?
KUPCHAN: Yes. I would agree that over the last month or so, President Trump has essentially gravitated to a more conventional position on Russia. He met with Pretro Poroshenko, the head of Ukraine. He applied additional sanctions against Russia for its invasion of Ukraine. He just was in Poland which is a frontline state. He has - today said that he thinks Russia probably interfered in the election. So he's not teed up a chummy-chummy talk with Mr. Putin tomorrow. In fact, my guess is it's really just going to be a get to know you kind of meeting because we know there is no agenda. The teams haven't really been able to do their homework. So, other than trying to build a personal rapport, I don't think we're going to see much big come out on that on Ukraine, on Syria, on some of the top issues because the groundwork simply has not yet been laid.
[13:10:25] BERMAN: So Charles and Paul were talking about a little bit of the framework of the president's speech earlier today when he build this sort of a struggle for survival for the west. Listen to what he said about the dire threats faced by the west.
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TRUMP: There are dire threats to our security and to our way of life. You see what's happening out there. They are threats. We will confront them. We will win. But they are threats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: In some ways, Jackie is talking about the battle against terror. In other ways, he's talking about his battle against illegal immigration. Those are words that might be accepted by his base here in the United States. Maybe even in Poland where the leader there shares some of his views but in Western Europe and then parts of the United States also might be more controversial.
KUCINICH: Well, you have to wonder if that was discussed during his conversation with Angela Merkel because that's something he's been very critical of her publicly about Germany's immigration policies. So - and that was supposed to be reportedly a piece of contention between the two of them. But - yes, absolutely. This was something that played very well in Poland but back here in the United States, he's still is receiving -- while the Supreme Court ruled that parts of his travel ban can be implemented. He's still facing in the fall a final decision on that. So this is something that, you know, he continues to juggle both at home and abroad.
BERMAN: Jackie Kucinich, Paul Bonicelli, Charles Kupchan, thanks so much. Again, we are keeping our eye on this protests. Live pictures of protests now from Hamburg in Germany. The site of the G20 summit. Maybe 10,000 people out there on the streets right now to greet the leaders of these some 20 nations. We will watch very carefully. So far peaceful. In the meantime, President Trump casting doubt on his own intelligence agency saying Russia may have meddles in the election or maybe it was someone else. Nobody really knows for sure, he says. We'll get reaction from one of his key republican supporter coming up. Plus, the president says he has strong options for North Korea after North Korea tested a new missile. But what does he mean by that and is military action one of these options? Stay with us.
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[13:16:31] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's bring you up to speed right now. There are live pictures from Hamburg, Germany. Protests at the G-20 Summit there. Our Frederik Pleitgen says maybe 10,000 people or so on the streets there protesting this meeting as it's goes on. So far these protests look peaceful to us and they look like the types of activism - type of activism we've seen at past global meetings like this. Unclear if there is anything more specific than that. But we will keep our eye on it to see if anything develops.
Also we're watching right now President Trump in a meeting with the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. They went in behind closed doors about an hour ago. We do not know if the meeting has finished. We saw pictures of them going in. They did shake hands, for people who are wondering. They had been an issue with them in the past. We do not know how the meeting went, what they discussed or if, in fact, they have emerged from it yet. That is one big meeting for the president this week.
Tomorrow he meets face-to-face with the Russian leader, Vladimir Putin. The man U.S. intelligence agencies pretty much agree tried to rig the 2016 election, or tried to influence or hack the 2016 election. But when asked today whether he believes Russia is responsible for election meddling, whether he believes his own intelligence agencies essentially, this is what President Trump said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it could very well have been Russia, but I this is could well have been other countries. And I won't be specific, but I think a lot of people interfere.
I agree. I think it was Russia, but I think it was probably other people and/or countries. And I see nothing wrong with that statement. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right. One update we are just getting. Word that the meeting between President Trump and German Chancellor Angela Merkel has finished. That meeting is now over. We will bring you word of what they discussed, how it went, as soon as it comes into us.
In the meantime, joining us, Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin of New York. He serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee.
And, congressman, let's start with what we heard of President Trump, who said of Russia election meddling, nobody knows for sure. Is that really the case? Do you have any doubt about whether Russia meddled in the U.S. presidential election?
REP. LEE ZELDIN (R), NEW YORK: Well, I would say a couple of things. One is, I believe that Russia meddled in the United States election. And without being able to give all of the details of - I mean we've, as members of Congress, have been part of top secret briefings with FBI, CIA, DNI. We're not allowed to get into those details. I would say, though, it is a - a complicated investigation that isn't as simple as just saying Russia meddled. So I can see where the president is coming from, that there are some other components to this that we don't have completely filled in. I do believe Russia meddled with the election, and it's beyond a fair game to bring up at the meeting tomorrow. It's something that he should bring up.
BERMAN: It is something he should bring up with Vladimir Putin you're saying?
ZELDIN: Yes. There are - there are a lot of really important topics to talk about. I wouldn't just talk about this. I also wouldn't just talk about so many other topics. I'm sure Syria and ISIS, North Korea, Ukraine come up.
BERMAN: Sure.
ZELDIN: And there are other issues on top of that, that may come up as well. You have two alpha-type personalities in that room. While I - I agree with one of your last guests, as you were talking about, hour tomorrow is going to be an introductory meeting, that's absolutely true. I can see with these two personalities, that they are going to get into it a little bit with each other. Hopefully the meeting ends where it was a productive meeting and progress is made, not just on where our interests are adversarial, but also where they're aligned, like defeating ISIS.
[13:20:18] BERMAN: You know, President Trump stood in Warsaw today and warned Russia bout what he called destabilizing activities. Do you think Russian meddling in elections, whether it be U.S. elections, French elections, any elections, does that count as a destabilizing activity?
ZELDIN: Oh, yes. Russia meddles in many different ways and it does destabilize - I mean here we are still, you know, halfway through 2017 and, you know, and you and I are talking about it and many other people are talking about what happened last November. So from that standpoint where, you know, you have people who might be ideologically divided or divided on partisan lines here in the United States, talking about that happening during the 2016 election, that's certainly a factor. They meddle where we have troops in Afghanistan and the Russians are aligned with the Taliban. So many different ways the meddling - and as you pointed out, they meddle, not just last year in 2016, but they've been doing it for a long time.
BERMAN: You seem to have a whole lot less doubt than the president does on that subject, but let's not talk about last year. Let's talk about earlier this week with the North Korean missile test. The first test, we believe, successful test, of an intercontinental ballistic missile that could, in theory, potentially reach Alaska. Listen to what the president said today about the North Korean threat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP As far as North Korea is concerned, I don't know. We'll see what happens. I don't like to talk about what I have planned. But I have some pretty severe things that we're thinking about. That doesn't mean we're going to do them. I don't draw red lines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Do you think there's any military option, realistic military option, at this point, congressman, when it comes to North Korea?
ZELDIN: I think that the - the president is in the process of developing it. I - when we look at - I mean the way we appropriate under the principle of (INAUDIBLE) diplomacy information, military economics and all options being on the table. Military is certainly the last resort, but I would hope - I would encourage - I sure hope it's happening that - that within the administration that they are planning for what that military option would look like if absolutely necessary. The last thing you'd want to do is get to the point where you have to utilize the "m" in dime (ph) and you haven't even planned for it. So the planning should take place and the president should be - shouldn't be detailing those particular parts of the plan because they won't be as effective if you outline exactly how that's going to get executed. But certainly the last possible option. BERMAN: Well, we have heard clearly from his national security adviser
and defense secretary that they are presenting possible military options. But as you say, you know, no sign yet that it is in any anyway inevitable.
Congressman Lee Zeldin of New York, thanks so much for being with us.
ZELDIN: Thank you, John.
BERMAN: All right, the meeting between President Trump and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, as we said, it has just wrapped up. CNN's senior White House correspondent Jeff Zeleny in Hamburg, Germany.
Jeff, any word from what happened inside those - behind closed doors?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, we don't yet have a readout of that meeting, but we know the issues going into this meeting with the German chancellor and the president, you know were a variety of things. Climate change, first and forward most. Trade agreements. Immigration. You name it. I mean this is such a different setting, a different moment for this president.
We just landed here a few moments ago from Warsaw, John, and I can tell you the mood in Hamburg, entirely different. The president received a - such a warm welcome this morning as he was giving his speech in Poland. It was such a, you know, a designed rally. It almost felt like an international version of a Trump rally that we saw so much during the election cycle. But, John, this is so different because Donald Trump is one of many here. He's one of many world leaders here. And the - the issues that he has with so many of them are quite complicated and fraught, but we don't have yet a readout of this particular one.
But it is the second time that Chancellor Merkel and the president have had a formal meeting likes this. It's about the fourth time, by my memory, that they have actually met each other. There have been some awkward handshakes, et cetera. But the president now is off to dinner with another group of leaders. So we'll get more of a readout on the exact meeting coming up, John.
BERMAN: You mentioned the awkward moments, Jeff, in between - we're showing right now live pictures of protests in Hamburg.
ZELENY: Right.
BERMAN: Some 10,000 people on the streets there. It would have been largely peaceful protests.
ZELENY: Sur.
BERMAN: But we also saw pictures of the handshake today between President Trump and the German chancellor. And, yes, they did shake hands, which is something that's been pointed out to me, not just on social media, but directly by some supporters of President Trump. They think, you know, it's significant. It is notable that the body language this time, the pictures are up right now, they note are better, different, than perhaps we had seen in the initial meetings between the president and the German chancellor. Do you get the sense that the White House was preparing for this, cares about the optics of the meeting between these two leaders?
[13:25:13] ZELENY: Sure. I think the White House absolutely cares about the optics of this. We've seen several sort of handshakes go awry. The one that was sort of the worst between these two leaders came in the Oval Office -
BERMAN: Right.
ZELENY: A few months back when they simply did not shake hands. But in this instance this afternoon I am told that she initiated the handshake. By a pool reporter in the room, that she initiated this handshake here. So, yes, optics always matter in this case. I think we probably make more of them now in the age of social media than we used to. You know, there always are awkward moments here, but it's the substance of this meeting. They have so many disagreements, John, that really will be an issue here for these two countries going forward.
BERMAN: You know, Jeff, we just saw the video again. We all can confirm that, yes, she did seem to initiate the handshake. Her hand went out first.
ZELENY: Right.
BERMAN: Outreach. Physical, literal outreach from Germany to the United States.
ZELENY: But we - but we are in her - her home town, her home country, John, so it seems sort of hospitable that she would be someone to do that. So I don't find that, that strange, actually.
BERMAN: White House correspondent and protocol chief Jeff Zeleny from Hamburg. Thank you very much for being with us. We'll check back in with you if we do get a readout about what went on inside that meeting.
President Trump says he is considering, quote, "pretty severe things" when dealing with the nuclear threat from North Korea. Is the window for a peaceful solution quickly closing?
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