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Obamacare Architect On The GOP's Latest Health Bill; Trump's Personal Lawyer Apologizes For Vulgar E-Mails; Lawyer: Suspect Admits Involvement In Murder Of Four Missing Men; Beyond The Call Of Duty. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired July 14, 2017 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:32:55] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This weekend will be anything but relaxing for Senate Republicans on a little bit of rocky road to repealing Obamacare. The Republicans cannot afford to lose any more votes on the revised health care bill so where do the issues lie in this new version?
We want to discuss this with one of the original architects of Obamacare, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel. He is the chair of the Department of Medical Ethics and Health Policy at the University of Pennsylvania and the author of "Prescription for the Future: The Twelve Transformational Practices of Highly Effective Medical Organizations." A very catchy title there.
Doctor, let me put up on the screen some of the big changes to the new Republican version here.
An option for cheaper plan with fewer benefits -- we're going to talk about that -- HSA payment allowance on premiums, $45 billion for substance abuse/opioid treatment. No changes to Medicaid from previous bill, really. No repeal on Obamacare taxes for the wealthy.
The first item on that list, the so-called Cruz amendment. The option for a cheaper plan with fewer benefits. What would that change do?
EZEKIEL EMANUEL, CHAIR, DEPARTMENT OF MEDICAL ETHICS AND HEALTH POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, AUTHOR, "PRESCRIPTION FOR THE FUTURE: THE TWELVE TRANSFORMATIONAL PRACTICES OF HIGHLY EFFECTIVE MEDICAL ORGANIZATIONS": First of all, that makes this bill even worse than the original bill that Mitch McConnell proposed because this will totally destroy the individual insurance market.
Here's what happens. In the exchanges where there are these packages that have to have the 10 essential benefits, they'll have people who have illnesses or who are older will purchase there. But young, healthy people who want a skinny package will go outside the exchanges and they will get these very skinny packages.
The result is you have this so-called adverse selection where only the sick are in the exchanges. They drive the premiums up because they tend to use more health care and that -- the exchanges collapse. The insurance companies hate this for that reason and, basically, it
benefits young, healthy people who can pick and choose and decide when they're going to actually get real insurance. And it adversely affects people who are over 50, people who've had any illness.
It totally undercuts the pledge by the president and Republicans to keep the so-called preexisting disease exclusion there. So my patients who have cancer, they're going to -- you're going to say yes, you could get insurance in the exchange but it will way too expensive for them.
[07:35:09] This does not do anything about affordability for precisely the people who need affordability.
BERMAN: Right, but you're saying it makes it worse. You are saying it makes it worse --
BERMAN: -- for people with preexisting conditions.
EMANUEL: Because it will end the insurance market.
BERMAN: Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. But it does help. It would make premiums cheaper for younger people, for healthier people, which is what Ted Cruz says he's trying to do.
EMANUEL: This is just a distorted way. Basically, it makes it cheaper by stripping out things that people need. Things like mental health services, things like rehabilitation, things like drug benefits. It doesn't make it cheaper by actually reducing the cost --
BERMAN: But, getting rid --
EMANUEL: -- but getting rid of unnecessary care. But it makes it cheaper by saying you know, we're going to throw the air conditioning out of the car. It's no longer going to have power steering.
BERMAN: But they say --
EMANUEL: That's not cheaper.
BERMAN: Ted Cruz says that not everyone wants power steering. That not everyone wants air conditioning. When you talked about health care not everyone wants -- not every 35-year-old man who's never going to get married wants to have a dilemma.
EMANUEL: So here's the --
BERMAN: -- to have the dilemma.
EMANUEL: Here's the dilemma. Here's the dilemma. If we want to have the preexisting disease exclusion so insurance companies cannot discriminate against patients like mine with cancer or Parkinson's disease or multiple sclerosis you have to actually limit the freedom of people to buy these cheap plans when they're healthy but to jump in and get the more comprehensive plans when they're sick. Otherwise, the insurance market doesn't work. It's just that simple.
We know that you have got to put everyone in one pool and have everyone pay into one pool. It's cross subsidization. That's the way insurance works. And under the rubric of freedom, Ted Cruz is going to undermine the entire insurance market.
That is not freedom for patients with cancer. That's not freedom for patients with Parkinson's disease. That actually leaves them high and dry without real insurance because they can't afford it.
BERMAN: One of the big issues on the first version of the plan and on the House version was what happens to Medicaid. The CBO, on the first version the Senate bill, said that 15 million -- 15 million fewer people would be on Medicaid 15 years from now. After you've looked at the new Senate version, what happens?
EMANUEL: Nothing. It benefits -- they seem comfortable. They seem to be able to go to sleep at night throwing 15 million off of insurance and sending much more of the financial burden for Medicaid onto states. That is a terrible way to go.
Remember, most of these people who got the Medicaid expansion are adults, working in jobs and trying to do their best but their employer doesn't give them insurance.
These are not so-called -- you know, Ronald Reagan's disparaging phrase, people who were welfare queens, or Mitt Romney's disparaging phrase of the 47 percent of takers.
These are people who are hardworking in America. It's just that their employers don't offer insurance. And now, we're going to pull out the rug from under them and the Republicans seem -- no, they seem willing to do that.
BERMAN: Well, again, no changes from the previous Senate version of the bill.
The president, yesterday, was talking about, again, the complications of health care reform. He'd say the only thing more difficult than peace between Israel and the Palestinians is health care. It's like this narrow road that's about a quarter of an inch wide. That's the president's view of what health care reform is like.
You've just written a whole book on this, you know, "Prescription for the Future," so what's your answer to walking down this narrow road that's a quarter of an inch wide?
EMANUEL: First of all, it's not a narrow road. As I've often said, if you put Republican health policy people and Democratic health policy people in a room, we agree 60 or 70 percent of the time about what needs to be done.
As I say in my book, one of the things we need to do is to change how we pay doctors and hospitals. We need to pay them per person. We need to pay them in these bundled payments. Put all the fees for a particular procedure, like a hip replacement,
in one price because that will suddenly create incentives for them to actually keep people healthy, to focus on how to get rid of unnecessary care, and to deliver care more efficiently.
And when I went around the country and looked at places that were doing that there were many, many places that are actually doing a terrific job. They've been able to reduce the hospital rate -- the rate at which they hospitalize patients 40 percent in some cases. That saves a lot of money and it's actually good for patients because they're kept healthier.
You need to look at specific cases. And we need to change everything we do for patients, from how we schedule appointments to how we care for patients with chronic illness. Once we do that health care will become much more affordable and those premiums will come down.
That's actually the key to the long-term of making health care more affordable for the public, is to change how we deliver care that --
EMANUEL: -- reduces the cost.
And that's what my book's about. It's illustrating cases where this really does work. That's bipartisan, it's not individual party the way Mitch McConnell's doing it.
[07:40:03] BERMAN: Right.
EMANUEL: And we can do it because --
BERMAN: Well --
EMANUEL: -- here are good examples that can be copied around the country.
BERMAN: Dr. Zeke Emanuel, thanks so much for being with us. You know, I hope we can do it, as you say, because the American people really do need it. Appreciate your time, sir.
EMANUEL: Well, if the McConnell bill fails then maybe there is an opening for bipartisan health care reform, which I've been advocating all this time.
BERMAN: We will see. Thanks, sir.
EMANUEL: Thank you.
BERMAN: Alisyn --
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John.
The president's lawyer is in some hot water. He's apologizing after sending vulgar e-mails to a critic. We'll tell you what he said, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: President Trump's personal lawyer is apologizing for vulgar e-mails and threats that he sent to a complete stranger.
CNN's Kyung Lah explains what happened.
RACHEL MADDOW, HOST, MSNBC "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW": It's got a lot of disparaging personal information about Mr. Kasowitz.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The e-mail tirade began from a segment on cable T.V. The unnamed viewer was watching MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. She was talking about an article published by "ProPublica" on President Trump's lawyer, Marc Kasowitz, and why he doesn't have security clearance.
MADDOW: "ProPublica" with this very damning sourcing.
LAH: The viewer searched out Kasowitz on his company Website and e- mailed him at 9:28 p.m. Eastern time, according to e-mails published by "ProPublica."
The viewer wrote, "Marc, you don't know me. I don't know you. But I believe it is in your interest and the long-term interest of your firm for you to resign from your position.
Five minutes later, Kasowitz replied with two words, "F you."
[07:45:00] Fifteen minutes later, Kasowitz e-mailed again. "And you don't know me, but I will know you. How dare you send me an e-mail like that? I'm on you now. You are (expletive) with me now."
He continues to berate the writer, ending the e-mail, "Watch your back," then an expletive.
The unnamed viewer replied, writing, "Thank you," to which Kasowitz wrote two more e-mails. "Call me. Don't be afraid you piece of (expletive)."
The last e-mail, "I already know where you live. I'm on you. You might as well call me. You will see me. I promise, bro."
PAUL CALLEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, PROSECUTOR: Well, they're shockingly inappropriate e-mails for a person of Mr. Kasowitz' stature in the legal profession and as counsel to the President of the United States.
LAH: CNN legal analyst and prosecutor Paul Callan is also a New York attorney, aware of Kasowitz' aggressive take no prisoners reputation, which is infamous in New York's legal circles.
Shortly after fired FBI Director James Comey testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee, Kasowitz swung hard on behalf of the president. MARC KASOWITZ, PERSONAL ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: The president never informed or substanced, directed or suggested that Mr. Comey stop investigating anyone.
LAH: Back then, just like in this e-mail tirade, Callan sees echoes of team Trump.
CALLAN: Lawyers often become like their clients when they represent clients over a lifetime. And, of course, Donald Trump brags about the fact that he's aggressive, he takes no prisoners. As Melania once said, I think, you know, if you hit him once he'll hit you back 10 times harder, and it seems that Mr. Kasowitz engages in similar tactics.
LAH: Whether Kasowitz will face any disciplinary action because of these e-mails, Callan doesn't think so, saying they were not a direct part of a legal case.
Kasowitz, perhaps realizing the implications, released a statement saying, "I should not have responded in that inappropriate manner. This is one of those times where one wishes he could reverse the clock but, of course, I can't."
He promised to send an apology to the target of his e-mail rage.
Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
BERMAN: Watch your back.
CAMEROTA: Well, first of all, but for the grace of God go all of us. I mean, I quit Twitter this week because I was about to go full Kasowitz --
BERMAN: The difference --
CAMEROTA: -- on people.
BERMAN: The difference is, and it's not a small difference, is you're not representing the President of the United States, you know, on a big investigation that involves special counsel.
CAMEROTA: Well, all right. Thank you for that distinction.
BERMAN: I'm just saying.
CAMEROTA: But I think that the point is that we all understand the impulse of having been provoked by strangers online or via e-mail and I understand the impulse to send back something slightly barbed --
BERMAN: All right.
CAMEROTA: -- at times. BERMAN: All right, other big news this morning, the murder mystery in Pennsylvania.
One of the suspects has made a stunning admission in connection with the death of four young men who disappeared last week.
CNN's Brynn Gingras live in New Hope, Pennsylvania with the very latest. Good morning, Brynn.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, good morning to you.
And this is what we're being told by Cosmo DiNardo's attorney who told reporters that his 20-year-old client admitted to his participation in the killings of four men who went missing in this suburban Philadelphia area just last week.
Now, what he also told us is that his client has been participating and being involved with authorities, giving them information. When he was asked did his client tell authorities where those bodies were buried, he said yes.
Now, we are just down the road from where authorities, around the clock, have been searching a property from the DiNardo family and they did find a grave just yesterday with the remains of one person -- one of those men who have been identified -- and then there were other remains in there as well.
At this point, though, we should caution that DiNardo has not been charged with murder but we expect to get more updates at a news conference later day -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Brynn. Thank you very much for the update from that tragic story.
Meanwhile, President Trump spending the last couple of days in Paris but a mysterious friend who tells him all about the City of Lights was missing in action.
Who is that friend? Find out, next. I'm sticking around for this.
[07:53:05] CAMEROTA: A once troubled teenager is now a high school graduate and is being sworn into the Navy today thanks to the generosity of a Phoenix area police officer who went beyond the call of duty.
CNN's Dan Simon has the story.
BRANDON SHEFFERT, POLICE OFFICER, PEORIA, ARIZONA: There's officers who do this every single day; other officers who do it all the time.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Officer Brandon Sheffertgives new meaning to the term first responder. SHEFFERT: It's my turn.
SIMON: He was the first to truly notice a struggling teen, opening his doors to the high schooler he randomly met on patrol.
SHEFFERT: I view him as just another one of our kids. It's kind of odd when he's not around.
SIMON: How has he made the biggest difference in your life?
ANTHONY SCHULTZ: He's taught me everything I need to know like stuff I didn't know before.
SIMON: How this stranger came to be part of the family is a testament to the officer's character and compassion.
Cops are accustomed to seeing disturbing things but Officer Sheffert knew he had to intervene when he later responded to a call at Anthony's cramped apartment.
SHEFFERT: Tensions were high, tempers were high.
SIMON: There was a call to 911 and a fight between family members involving alcohol. When the officer pulled the young man aside --
SHEFFERT: It really bothered me because usually when I have talked to kids and when I have talked to people I have an ability, Ifeel, to get through to them, and for some reason it just ate me up inside.
SIMON: So much so that Officer Sheffert started making frequent trips back to the apartment.
He's coming by every day --
SCHULTZ: Yes, to check on me.
SHEFFERT: I think he had a rough go and I think there was a lot of emotions. He didn't have his dad in the picture. I don't think he had a solid male role model ever.
SIMON: So, Officer Sheffert began fulfilling that role and when Anthony's home life got even worse the officer didn't hesitate. Call it an informal adoption.
SHEFFERT: I don't know how to explain it but if you were looking at my sophomore year compared to like today, you would see a totally different kid. I think I've matured in every aspect of life.