Return to Transcripts main page

PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

O.J. Simpson Up for Parole; New Controversy. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 17, 2017 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST (voice-over): After nearly 10 years of being locked up...

O.J. SIMPSON: But I didn`t mean to hurt anybody.

BANFIELD: ... O.J. Simpson will soon find out if he`ll be walking out of prison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Conspiracy to commit a crime, guilty.

BANFIELD: Tonight, a closer look at his fast and furious downfall, on trial for the murders of his ex-wife, Nicole, and her friend, Ron

Goldman...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilt of the crime of murder...

BANFIELD: ... to a night when he robbed sports memorabilia dealers. We talked to three people, one who knew the football star, Kato Kaelin.

KATO KAELIN, O.J. HOUSE GUEST, WITNESS: I heard a noise like that.

BANFIELD: One who investigated Simpson for the murders, lead detective Tom Lange.

TOM LANGE, LAPD DETECTIVE: Please toss the gun. Juice, just toss it.

BANFIELD: And the attorney who represented him during his appeal of that robbery conviction, Ozzie Fumo (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he`s in prison for in Nevada is not Ron Goldman`s murder.

BANFIELD: All leading up to one big question -- will the juice soon be loose?

SIMPSON: I`m sorry. I`m sorry for all of it!

BANFIELD: A bride-to-be calls 911 to report a possible sexual assault near her home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She woke up at 1:30 in the morning to basically a crime scene.

BANFIELD: But she`s the one who winds up dead, shot and killed by the police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am heartsick and deeply disturbed.

BANFIELD: Now controversy is brewing. Why weren`t the officers` bodycams turned on?

Police hoping this sketch can help them solve a five-month murder mystery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the person that at least participated in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

BANFIELD: Tonight, will it help find who killed two teenage girls on a remote hiking trail?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t believe it, and I don`t want to believe it.

BANFIELD: Two cousins now charged in the murders of four young men.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything to say? (INAUDIBLE) you`re sorry?

COSMO DINARDO, MURDER SUSPECT: I`m sorry.

BANFIELD: Details emerging about the killings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody`s heart-broken.

BANFIELD: But was it really four executions for just pot money?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield, and I`m coming to you live tonight from the Palace Station Hotel in Las Vegas, the

infamous scene of O.J. Simpson`s kidnapping and robbery that put him behind bars for the last nine years.

We`re here in Nevada right now for O.J. Simpson`s parole hearing, which is coming up this week. And this is a special edition of PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

He is known as inmate number 1027820, and he`s planning to go before the state board parole on Thursday. Right now, O.J. is serving 9 to 33 years,

and it all stems from that 2008 incident when he went along with five accomplices, two of them packing heat, to a hotel room in Las Vegas to get

back what he said were his sports collectibles and personal items.

O.J. turned 70 just last week, but he`s been behind bars ever since his arrest. And if allowed to walk free, he could do so as soon as October.

But when he first came up for parole four years ago, Simpson really didn`t look like the football star turned actor that we all grew up with.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMPSON: (INAUDIBLE) I will give it all. (INAUDIBLE) They can have it all to get these last five years back. They`ve been somewhat illuminating at

times and painful a lot of times. I`ve missed my two younger kids (INAUDIBLE) through high school. I missed their college graduations. I

missed my daughter`s -- my sister`s, I should say, funeral. I missed all the birthdays and various...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It was at that hearing the board granted O.J. parole on some but not all of his 12 offenses. Many people, including his attorneys, however,

believe that 33 years of a sentence -- well, that was just payback, payback for Simpson`s acquittal back in 1995, his acquittal in the murders of his

ex-wife Nicole and her friend Ron Goldman.

Simpson was already one of the most famous people in the world even before the trial began, but the former Heisman trophy winner and pro football Hall

of Famer, a fixture in the sidelines, in the movies, and of course, in those famous car rental ads for Hertz.

But it was that white Bronco chase broadcast live on television just days after the murders, when police asked O.J. to turn himself in, that

transformed this case into a spectacle and a fascination for a whole lot of people all around the world.

[20:05:03]Millions and millions of people were just transfixed by this trial. It was truly must-see TV, people watching every moment of the

prosecution, every moment of the defense of O.J. Simpson, the juice.

One of those big moments, Kato Kaelin on the stand, a man who in just minutes from now is going to join us live after 22 years, 22 years after

rocketing to fame as the world`s most recognizable house guest. You`ll remember Mr. Kaelin was staying at the guest house on O.J.`s Rockingham

estate, and it was there the night of the murders and what he said he heard outside of his window that made the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATO KAELIN, O.J. HOUSE GUEST: It was -- you know, my room, it has this wall, and -- like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the record, the witness thumped on the witness stand with his fist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You hit the witness stand, like, three times or so. Was that three noises that you heard?

KAELIN: I believe it was three noises. It was thumping.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAELIN: Hi.

BANFIELD: Mr. Kato Kaelin joins me live now from Los Angeles.

KAELIN: Hi, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Kato, it`s good to see you. It`s been a long time.

KAELIN: Do I have to swear in?

BANFIELD: Thank you so much for being with us. So I guess the first question...

KAELIN: You`re not going to make me swear in, are you?

BANFIELD: ... how are you?

KAELIN: I`m good. I`m good. I`m very good.

BANFIELD: I`m not going to make you swear in, without question.

KAELIN: OK. Making sure.

BANFIELD: I am so curious...

KAELIN: I go back in time.

(CROSSTALK)

KAELIN: It`s so unusual to see that.

BANFIELD: So fill me in.

KAELIN: What`s going on in my life? Is that -- I`m sorry, I was talking over you. I didn`t hear your question. Lots going on. I was actually...

BANFIELD: But they were on one of those crazy delays. I`m going to apologize to the viewers even before get going. It`s, like, sometimes it`s

about two or three seconds or so. But I`m going to let you go ahead and just tell me what you`ve been up to all these years.

KAELIN: Well, I do -- I have a show right now with a company called Wizard World, and Wizard World is Comicon, and I travel pretty much about 30

cities this year. And we have the kids play (INAUDIBLE) We have the actors coming in from percent Charlie Sheens to Kate Becksindale (ph). And if

you`re familiar with Comicon at all, they`re jam-packed. So I travel with those shows, and I`ll be leaving for Columbus, the Chicago and Orlando. So

that`s what I`ve been doing, and also -- and keeping in with this, I have an endorsement for Guesthouserent.com. We`ll talk about that later.

BANFIELD: Oh, I guess that makes perfect sense. I`ve got to say, looking at you, you look fantastic. You haven`t aged a bit. The only thing that

looks different is your Farah Fawcett hair is slightly shorter.

But I`m curious about -- when you say you keep checking in with this, "this" is this, this is the O.J. Simpson saga that`s been, honestly, taking

a big part of our lives for 25 years. And when I say "our," I mean Americans. No one seems to have shaken the O.J. fascination.

And I wonder how fascinated you are with what`s happening now, this week, this Thursday, the possibility of O.J. walking free again, maybe playing

golf, maybe having a restaurant, maybe running into you.

KAELIN: Yes, Ashleigh, that`s a great question. And I think it`s amazing because there`s been so -- well, there`s been the FX series. There`s been

the Academy Award-winning documentary on ESPN. Everything about this keeps happening, and it`s a story that will never end. And everything is still

current. Twenty-two years later, everything is still current. And I think it`s -- also shows the millennials -- it`s funny because someone just saw

we testify in a commercial I shot, and they didn`t believe that was the same guy, me, Kato, that I was a part of this trial 22 years ago.

And then I see that the show, the Emmys, and it -- actually, it just keeps going on and on. It will never end. Now we have the new thing going on

with O.J.`s parole. It`s just like a Hollywood story.

BANFIELD: So how do you feel about that, Kato, 22 years later, you know, the people of Nevada have said very often, you know, Nevada did to O.J.

what California couldn`t or wouldn`t. And he`s, you know, spending time as payback for being acquitted in the trial that you became so famous when you

testified in. Do you personally feel O.J. that should be granted parole when it comes up on Thursday?

KAELIN: Well, for that crime, completely, yes, I think so, I think for the crime of the robbery in Vegas, the nine years is -- you know, I was privy

enough to be talking to Tom Lange, the excellent detective during the trial, and Tom even had mentioned that that`s a pretty severe sentence that

O.J. was given for that. And in LA, it may never have happened, meaning that case might have been thrown out.

And I`m not going to speak for Tom. He`s here in a second. But it`s true. I think for that crime that he committed in Las Vegas, I think he paid his

due. I also think that my opinion from the first trial...

BANFIELD: So let me...

KAELIN: ... was O.J. was guilty, in my opinion. So -- but those are two different crimes.

BANFIELD: Yes. OK. So let me ask you about the future and the future with O.J. Simpson possibly in it because there are a lot of experts who

feel the same way you do. And they say, Look, he served the time for the crime that happened in the hotel behind me here and that he will be granted

parole, and that means he will be out and he`ll be free, effectively, with some restrictions, to be able to golf and move about the cabin (ph).

[20:10:16]If he tried to contact you, would you have any interest in reigniting any kind of friendship that you had a quarter century ago with

O.J.?

KAELIN: No. Absolutely not. There`s no need. I don`t have any contact, Ashleigh, with anybody in the trial. I think it`s one of those things that

it ends and everybody`s life go on. So I would no -- if I saw O.J. in the street, no, I think probably would actually walk the other way because

there`s nothing I would want to say to him.

BANFIELD: It`s fascinating to hear you say that because I think most people, you know, came to know -- and then you`re sort of seared in their

memories as O.J.`s pal who was staying on the property. Do you -- I guess the best question to ask you about how your life changed and what it`s

become and would it have become what it is now and would you be the person you are now. Do you think the O.J. Simpson case changed you at all, and if

it did, was it for the better?

KAELIN: Yes, I`d like to also point out that when people say that I was O.J.`s closest pal, it`s only because the media kept repeating that. And

in the time that I stayed there, Ashleigh, I saw him probably five times completely. And I was actually a witness for the prosecution.

So I think when they say a big pal of O.J.`s, that wasn`t -- I wasn`t a hangout pal. I always wanted to say that 22 years later. I had my own set

of friends. He had his friend of friends. You know, I eat donuts. They were eating Danish.

So -- but yes, it completely changed my life because I, first of all, became a public figure. And my entire life was anything I`ve ever done,

people knew about me. And it also expressed how people could have a opinion based on sound bites of my life. And it was -- you know, that`s --

it`s sort of tough, you know, that you`re based on a sound bite. And then some people love, some people hate. So I saw that it`s easy to be --

people love to criticize.

BANFIELD: Well, it`s funny, I`ve heard you refer to yourself, you know, back during the days of the trial as the guy with the deer in the

headlights, and that`s you talking about your own self. But when I talk to you know and when I read interviews with you now, you sound like a pretty

sophisticated guy who learned a hell of a lot about American jurisprudence along the way. I guess that`s what I wanted to know. Did it change you

for the better, or did you become more circumspect about life, about safety, about crime, about punishment, about justice, about everything?

KAELIN: Yes, 100 percent. It changed my life completely because -- I don`t know if people can relate to this, but I live my life basically

through a timeline now. And what I mean by that, if I go out on a date with someone and I drop off the girl, I have to make sure that she will --

will tell me -- I say, Text me, let me know exactly -- I have to live that way to know where I was at that exact moment. And it`s really difficult to

do that with your life.

I listen to a certain song, I go, OK, that song played at 11:00 o`clock at night. So I know -- I always know where I`m at. So I`m living my life

sort of still to that only because of how I found the timeline, how crucial it is in a trial, and how crucial it was in that trial.

So yes, my life is still -- 22 years later, I still live because of -- I live it because of how it was...

BANFIELD: It`s interesting. It sounds like you`re almost chastened to -- you`re chastened to document who you are, where you are because you`re

worried someone`s going to pin you down under oath on it.

So actually, when we dial your number and ask you for an interview, I`m going to speak for myself here, but I know that some of my colleagues feel

the same way -- we actually feel bad about it because we think for 22 years, you`ve kind of been hounded, harassed, whether it`s been from the

public or the media, and you`ve been inextricably linked with O.J. Simpson and his dalliances, shall we saw, with the law.

Do you ever foresee a day, Kato Kaelin, where you`re going to be able to put that all behind you, you won`t be connected to O.J., you won`t be,

Wait, did you say your name`s Kato Kaelin, as in the Kato Kaelin, or that you`re going to get Ashleigh Banfield calling you every seven years asking

you for an opinion on O.J.`s latest move?

KAELIN: Would you call me?

(LAUGHTER)

KAELIN: I -- and by the way, everybody that I -- everybody that I meet that -- I`ve met so many journalists, so many different news people,

everybody, and I`m not trying to be a little brown spot on my nose today, they love you, and they say Ashleigh`s great, you should do an interview

with her. But that`s -- that`s...

BANFIELD: Oh, check`s in the mail.

KAELIN: ... speaking very -- speaking (INAUDIBLE) yes. So yes, I hope so one day. I mean, I know I`m going to be tied (ph) out. It`s going to be

in the history book. But gosh, Ashleigh, I came from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, with a goal in mind to pursue what I`m doing. I`m still pursuing it, and

I`m working with a wonderful company at Wizard World making people laugh, having a great time. And opportunities are always there for me. And I`m

doing real well, so life is good.

[20:15:00]BANFIELD: Can I ask you this one last question? And it`s sort of a simple one, but maybe it`s layered, I don`t know.

KAELIN: You`ve got me for the whole hour, Ashleigh!

BANFIELD: You get a chance to tell O.J. something -- look, he does watch TV at Lovelock. If you had a chance to tell him something, if you had one

thing that you could tell O.J. today, what would it be?

KAELIN: Well, if he`s paroled, I would say, O.J., stay out of the news. Go spend time with your family. Don`t -- don`t do something stupid. That

goes, still, with my opinion, I think O.J. Simpson was guilty in the first crime, but this is a guy that loves to be adulated. It just -- stay away

from the camera.

BANFIELD: It`s sage advice. Except for a few do what I do for a living. But Kato, it`s been great to talk to you. Thank you so much for accepting

our call, doing the interview. And yes, I will call. I will call you early and often.

KAELIN: Text!

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Kato Kaelin joining us live.

As we continue on through the hour, I want to just let you know that this was, I think fair to say, the suicide watch seen around the world, O.J.

Simpson in the back of his white Bronco, his best friend, Al Cowlings, A.C. Cowlings, at the wheel, and the LAPD hot on the trail, especially the

detective named Tom Lange, who was trying to calm O.J. down.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

[20:20:50]SIMPSON: I just want to be with Nicole.

TOM LANGE, LEAD DETECTIVE: You don`t need to be with Nicole. You need to be with your family and with your kids. You don`t need to be with Nicole.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tom Lange joins me live next, live from Los Angeles.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SIMPSON: Just let me get to my house.

LANGE: OK, we`re going to do that.

SIMPSON: I swear to you, I`ll give you what -- I`ll give you me. I`ll give you my whole body. I just need to get to my house (INAUDIBLE)

LANGE: OK, we`re going to do that. Just throw the gun out the window.

SIMPSON: I can`t do that.

LANGE: We`re not going to bother you. We`re going to let you go up there. Just throw it out the window. Please, you`re scaring everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That white Bronco chase is one of those "Where were you" moments. Where were you during the O.J. Simpson white Bronco chase? After

being asked to surrender in connection with the murders of his ex-wife Nicole and Ron Goldman, O.J. led police on a chase across Los Angeles

freeways, and it was broadcast live on television stations around the world.

One person who was watching that chase with distinct interest was the lead detective in the case, Tom Lange. Tom Lange, desperately wanted O.J. to

come in alive, and because O.J. said he had a gun to his head in the back of that Bronco, Tom Lange wanted to make sure everybody else, was safe,

too. So he did something unheard of at the time. He called O.J. Simpson on something called a cellular phone. It was kind of a new device that not

everybody had. I want you to take a listen to a part of that phone call.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SIMPSON: I`m just going to leave.

LANGE: No, don`t.

SIMPSON: I`m just going to go with Nicole. That`s all I`m going to do. That`s all I`m trying to do.

LANGE: Hey, listen, think about everybody else, all right?

SIMPSON: I just can`t do it here on the freeway. I can`t do it in a field. I want to do it at her grave. I want to do it at my house.

LANGE: You`re not going to do anything. Too many people love you -- your kids, your mother, your friends, A.C., everybody. You`ve got the whole

world. Don`t throw it away. Don`t throw it away, man.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So I wanted to know, what does the former lead detective in the O.J. Simpson murder case think about the former football star possibly

walking free in the Nevada case? Mr. Tom Lange joining me live now from Los Angeles. He is the co-author of the book "Evidence Dismissed: The

Inside Story of the Police Investigation of O.J. Simpson." The book has recently been updated with a new postscript. And Detective Lange is with

me live now.

Detective, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. I guess I just want your first thoughts, entering, you know, O.J. Week. And I have

to be honest, a lot of people are wondering what`s going to happen Thursday with the advent and the possibility that he could be out. How do you feel

about that?

LANGE: Hi, Ashleigh. I don`t have a lot of personal feelings on the matter. I try not to get too involved with these things on a personal

level. However, you have to look at the crime. If you`re going to be objective, you know, the fact that going into this so-called robbery,

everyone knew one another, there were guns displayed, but no one got shot, no one got hit over the head. Simpson obviously thought that this was his

property that he was recovering.

And then you look at the nine years he`s been in prison. He hasn`t had any negative incidents. I kind of think that he will be getting out on parole.

If you take that case as a whole, and I took it to the LA DA nine, ten years ago, I`m not even sure that I could have filed it in Los Angeles.

So does he belong in prison? Yes, for the rest of his life, but not for some humbug robbery like that, for murder. Whether or not he`s getting

out, I don`t get affected by that personally.

BANFIELD: So you know, having to cope with the last 22 years of O.J. effectively being an innocent man in the eyes of the law with regard to

those murders, did you not secretly celebrate the fact that he was not an innocent man in the eyes of the Nevada officials who chose to go ahead with

the prosecution, who chose to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and who chose a sentence that was maybe not by coincidence up to 33

years, the same amount as the civil judgment against him from the Goldman family?

LANGE: You know, I didn`t really secretly celebrate anything. It`s fine. Bad things happen to bad people, and that`s clearly what happened here.

[20:25:04]It`s a very excessive sentence that he got. But you know, I don`t lose any sleep over any of that. That`s just too bad, and that`s on

him. He`s just lucky that he found the jury that he did, I guess, in acquitting him because he should be in prison for the rest of his life.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you, Detective Lange, did O.J. Simpson`s criminal acquittal in the murder case change your career? Did it change your

policing methods? Did it change not just LAPD but policing methods across the country, or did it just make people sour?

LANGE: Well, I think it changed -- certainly, it changed because of all the publicity. You know, here we are 23 years later, we`re still talking

about it, and if I`m still around another 20 years, we`ll still be talking about it. So it has changed a lot of things. It will continue to change.

As far as police tactics, if you saw -- and this -- of course, this whole trial was televised live, which affects testimony, affects witness

testimony. I had a big problem with that all along, and I also had a problem that -- the -- with both sides, the prosecutors, as well as the

defense, weren`t gagged because of the way the trial went. So everybody got their dirty underwear thrown out there.

I think a lot of young cops may have looked at that and said to themselves, you know, Perhaps if I get into a similar situation, I`m not going to go

over that wall, I`m not going to go and check on somebody`s welfare. So that`s maybe a negative thing that happened from this. They may be

hesitant to act because of this.

What you saw on television isn`t necessarily what happened in real life. That`s why I wrote the book, "Evidence Dismissed," recently did an updated

postscript to explain all that and the way that things really went down, not the way it was perceived in trial or even sensed (ph) by the media.

BANFIELD: So Detective Lange, part of the way it works, as you well know, is you are scored on a number of different factors when it comes time for a

parole hearing. And one of the factors is your future plan. You know, can you lay out something for this parole board to look at that makes sense,

that looks like it`s on the up-and-up, that actually, you know, gives you some forward momentum in the right direction? O.J. Simpson is not a dumb

man. He has got good advice around him. And it`s more than likely he`s going to present a pretty solid future plan. But do you believe that O.J.

Simpson is going to live on the straight and narrow if he gets out?

LANGE: Well, I wouldn`t bet a nickel on that one way or the other. I have no idea what he`s going to do. I think he`s a very narcissistic

individual. I think he can`t stay out of the media. I don`t know what his health is like. And frankly, I really don`t care. He`s going to go on and

do what he`s going to do. I think his health may be a factor, his age may be a factor in slowing him down.

As far as the parole board goes, obviously, they can`t take into consideration his criminal trial. They may be able to take into

consideration, however, the civil trial, and the fact that he has a very good record in prison. I`m sure they`ll take that under consideration. I

think, personally, he`ll probably be getting out. But what he does when he gets out, I really don`t care.

BANFIELD: You know, the reason that he`s at Lovelock was because of what happened behind me at the Palace Station Hotel. You know, he robbed at

gunpoint and effectively, by letter of the law, kidnapped some memorabilia dealers that he knew who had, quote, "his stuff." And his stuff is kind of

all that he seems to have left. He goes to these sports memorabilia shows, or at least he did before Lovelock nine years ago, and he would sell his

autograph. He would sell his -- his jerseys. He would sell all sort of memorabilia. But that money technically should go to the judgment, the $33

million judgment, and somehow it`s circumvented that.

Do you think that O.J. Simpson has any kind of financial future ahead of him? Does he have any marketability? Does he have any cultural

significance in America that`s worth something to folks, you know, out there?

LANGE: Well, yes, I think he does have a lot of vulnerability, as far as that goes. As far as his financial status, he`s probably doing fairly well

with his NFL pension, I heard something like $20,000 a month. If he can`t live on that, then he`s got another problem. That`s quite a bit of money

coming to him that he`s got.

I don`t know what about his properties. I`m sure he sold them off. I`m sure, financially, he`ll do just fine. It`s the other part, the

narcissistic part of his personality that may have -- that may get him into trouble again. I`d like to think that he`s maybe old enough now where he`s

not going to do stupid things, like trying to rob people and display guns and push his -- push his weight around. But you never know. Again, like I

said, I wouldn`t bet a nickel one way or the other.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST: Detective Lange, it`s good to talk to you again after all this time. Thanks very much for being here

tonight. Appreciate it.

LANGE: Thanks, Ashleigh. Thank you.

BANFIELD: Tom Lange, joining us live out of our Los Angeles bureau. O.J. Simpson was sentenced to 33 years at Lovelock Prison, got to love that

name. It was for that botched Las Vegas robbery right there behind me. A robbery that many people said was, you know, really just payback. That

sentence was just payback for the murder trial acquittal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he`s in prison for in Nevada is not Ron Goldman`s murder, whether people think that is or not, that`s not why he`s here.

BANFIELD: Now, he could walk free. Coming up, find out what drives O.J. the moment he wakes up every morning in that prison, towards being granted that

parole. And this from the man who`s been talking to him on a regular basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back, everyone. We are live tonight in Las Vegas and that`s just because in a few days, O.J. Simpson could be one step closer to

becoming a free man. O.J. is going to go before the Parole Board of Nevada on charges stemming from an armed robbery at the Palace Station Casino and

Hotel where Simpson and several other of his colleagues also considered co- conspirators tried to get back what he claimed were personal items from a couple of sports memorabilia agents. It`s been more than a 20-year fall

from grace to the hall of fame football player, who has been locked up since 2007 for the robberies, and not to mention it`s been quite a story

since the murders of his ex-wife and her friend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: O.J. Simpson, I think you know his record. Is he threatening you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went nuts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going nonstop from my brain to my car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. Simpson is in that car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Los Angeles Police Department right now is searching for Mr. Simpson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J., wherever you are, please surrender immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have followed O.J.`s career since `67.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s an American tragedy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real tragedy is the two people that were killed, Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two people dead at the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went to go drop off some sunglasses at her house being a nice guy and doing a favor for her friend and ended up dying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine-one-one. What are you reporting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is (inaudible). I have O.J. in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the icons of American sports history, O.J. Simpson, on the search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tragic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson, you are charged with the crime of murder. Are you ready to enter a plea at this time?

O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER FOOTBALL RUNNING BACK, CONVICTED OF ARMED ROBBERY AND KIDNAPPING: Absolutely, 100 percent not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn`t fit. It doesn`t fit. You must acquit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty of the crime of murder and violation of Penal Code Section 187-A, a felony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s beyond belief. He went after sports memorabilia. What (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t let anybody out of this room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Vegas, he committed a crime. He did it with guns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He put a gun on my face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he`s going to be where he belongs.

SIMPSON: I just wanted my personal things, and I realize I was stupid and - -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was much more than stupidity.

SIMPSON: I`m sorry. I`m sorry for all of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I find O.J. Simpson guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.

SIMPSON: I gave them my word that I would try to be, or would be, the best prisoner they`ve ever had here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have is satisfaction that this monster is where he belongs, behind bars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ozzie Fumo was the appellate attorney for O.J. Simpson in this robbery and kidnapping case, and he joins me live. Thank you so much for

being here.

OZZIE FUMO, APPELLATE ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SIMPSON: Thank you for having me.

BANFIELD: How often do you talk to him or how long has it been since you talked to him? How often as your contact?

FUMO: It has been probably four or five months now. I wouldn`t say on a monthly basis, but every few months.

BANFIELD: But a pretty regular relationship while you were representing him for the appeal.

FUMO: Definitely while we were representing him up there at Lovelock. Almost every other weekend until the hearing. And for a short period

afterwards, we had pretty regular communications as well.

BANFIELD: So as regular folk really only can follow O.J. Simpson`s progress in his life in Lovelock based on some photographs and some mug shots and a

parole hearing, you know, from a couple of years ago. What was his life like? How is he? Who is O.J. to you?

FUMO: Really just another client. Like you said at the beginning of the show, inmate number 1076800 -- that is really, he`s a client, but he`s in a

difficult situation, in a prison for sex offenders. That`s what Lovelock really is. He`s in a lock down facility. Because of his notoriety or his

celebrity status, they had to move him instead of a regular prison to a prison like that. He`s had a more difficult life than say anybody else who

was similarly situated, who is in prison for a robbery.

BANFIELD: That`s a very strange sort of a name for a prison that houses a lot of sex offenders, Lovelock.

FUMO: It happens to be the city where it`s located --

BANFIELD: Yes.

FUMO: Lovelock, Nevada. It is interesting for the type of prisoners they put there.

BANFIELD: A coincidence. But those are his -- those are his -- I guess, friends, colleagues, neighbors. It`s his whole life. He`s surrounded by a

bunch of criminals, a lot of sex offenders. Is he coping? Is he OK? What is his mental state like?

FUMO: He`s making the best of a bad situation. You know, he`s following all the rules. In 9-1/2 years, to my knowledge, he hasn`t had a single write-

up.

[20:40:00] In prison, you can get a write-up for almost anything. If you take a extra sugar packet from the cafeteria to your cell, you can get a

write-up for that. If you trade shoes with an inmate in there, you can get a write-up for that. So for any inmate to have zero write-ups for 9-1/2

years, it`s almost unheard of.

BANFIELD: It`s almost unheard of. That`s the way I`ve heard it characterized. Does it make sense to you having come to know O.J. Simpson,

the inmate, that one of the characterizations I`ve read about him is that he wakes up every day with the eye on the prize, and the eye on the prize

means parole, don`t screw up today. Is that true?

FUMO: I believe that is. I think that is probably true of every single inmate in the Nevada State Prison and probably in prison everywhere is, you

know, if you have a possibility of parole, if you have the hope of one day getting out, that`s what you do.

You are going to try to keep your eye on that prize. A lot of them mark down the days. They can tell you exactly how many days they`ve been in

there and how many days they have to go before they have that actual hearing. That is the incentive to keep your eye on the prize and stay good

while you`re in there.

BANFIELD: And just so everyone who`s watching a right now, it`s crystal clear, on the right of the screen is Yale Galanter and that was O.J.

Simpson`s attorney in this trial where he was found guilty of kidnapping and robbery and a number of other charges. And you represented O.J. in the

appeal, suggesting that it was Yale Galanter`s ineffective assistance of council, which is the accusation --

FUMO: Right.

BANFIELD: -- that should have led to O.J. Simpson getting another trial, that did not happen.

FUMO: Right.

BANFIELD: Right?

FUMO: Right.

BANFIELD: Is there bitterness between his former attorney, Yale Galanter, and O.J. because of that?

FUMO: No, actually not. I mean, I discussed with him during the hearing and even after the hearing, although we`re still appealing that, we took it to

the Nevada Supreme Court to make a decision based on the decision that was made in district court. He still had the option and the opportunity to file

a bar complaint against him and he refused to do it.

BANFIELD: If he is paroled, if he`s granted parole on Thursday, do you dump that or do you continue that effort?

FUMO: As far as O.D. --

BANFIELD: As far as the appeal.

FUMO: Right now, it just stopped.

BANFIELD: Yes.

FUMO: It just stopped there because --

BANFIELD: Kind of makes sense.

FUMO: Yes.

BANFIELD: I got to ask you about his movements. A lot of people have questions whether O.J. Simpson, once he is possibly able to walk out of the

Lovelock Correctional Facility, not until October 1st, that`s the earliest that can happen is he`s granted that right this Thursday, he wants out of

here. He never wants to come back to Nevada. He never wants to see Nevada again. He wants to amscray as fast as possible. But that`s not how parole

works, is it?

FUMO: No.

BANFIELD: So how does it work? What can happen if he gets out?

FUMO: I got clients tell me that over and over, as soon as I`m out of here, I`m leaving Nevada, even when they`re charged, if this case gets dismissed,

I`m going to leave Nevada and never come back. What happens is if you`re on parole, you have a parole officer who is going to monitor your every

movement. He`s going to possibly have a curfew. He`s possibly going to have to take classes. He`s possibly going to have to --

BANFIELD: Halfway house.

FUMO: Halfway house before -- that could even be a condition of parole if he gets released to a halfway house before they can set up a place for him

to live. I don`t know if he already has that set up if he gets the parole, where he would go, I`m sure there are negotiations on with that right now.

BANFIELD: And oftentimes how this works is that inmate or that parolee asks parole officer, would it be be OK, sir or madam, if I move back to my

family in Florida, and then you transfer your, you know, observation of me to an officer down in Florida. And this really is at the discretion of one

person.

FUMO: That`s right.

BANFIELD: The parole officer.

FUMO: The parole officer will make that determination. Every inmate has to be treated just like everybody else in Nevada.

BANFIELD: What if that parole officer has a ax to grind with O.J. Simpson?

FUMO: He would be subjected to that person`s rules. He would have a way to appeal it, to talk to the supervisor of that person, maybe the person in

charge of parole and probation here in Nevada. So there is kind of an appeal process to do that. It would take a minimum of 48 hours for the

officer to decide whether or not they`re going to move him, and then another, say, week or two to get to the next level of talking to that

person`s supervisor.

BANFIELD: But effectively O.J. Simpson`s movements, if he`s granted parole, will come down to the one man or woman --

FUMO: That`s correct.

BANFIELD: -- the parole officer. You can or you can`t leave.

FUMO: That`s correct.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable. Great to meet you. Thank you so much.

FUMO: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I know you`ve done a lot of work on behalf of the criminal justice system. We appreciate it.

FUMO: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thank you. A Minnesota bride-to-be made a call to 911, the purpose report a possible sexual assault she felt was happening outside her

window. Somehow, however, she ends up being the one who shot and killed by one of the responding officers. What on earth happened here and why weren`t

the officers` body cameras turned on? That story is coming up next.

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: On Saturday night, a bride-to-be called 911 because she heard yelling in the ally near her home in Minnesota. In fact, Justine Ruszczyk

thought a woman was being sexually assaulted. But when the police officers arrived on scene, one of them shot and killed her. And now two days later,

police have still not explained how or why Justine was shot. You might say good thing Minneapolis officers wear body cameras. But here is the thing.

The mayor says they were not turned on, and she like everyone else wants to know why not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BETSY HODGES, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: I am heartsick and deeply disturbed by the fatal officer-involved shooting. I know the neighborhood

well. For eight years, I was the city council member there and I know what a tight-knit community it is, tight-knit neighborhood where people know

each other and know each other well. And like you, I also have a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions about why the body cameras weren`t on.

[20:50:00] Questions that I hope and anticipate will be answered in the next few days. I share those question with the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The officers involved are on administrative leave. Minneapolis Police Department has requested an independent and external investigation

into the officer`s actions in Justine`s shooting.

Jeff Wagner is following the story for CNN affiliate WCCO and he joins me live from Minneapolis. Jeff, thanks for being on the program tonight. I`m

pretty mystified by the details because there are so few. It doesn`t make any sense. Can you fill in any of the blanks and tell me what happened to

Justine?

JEFF WAGNER, CNN AFFILIATE WCCO REPORTER (via telephone): Just first know there`s a lot of people, whether it be journalists or people in the

community who are thinking the same exact thing as you, wanting to get more information. Typically, we feel like we learned the who, what, where, when

and why in the stories quite quickly. That hasn`t been exactly the case over the past 24 going on almost 48 hours now.

At the bare minimum we learned yesterday about the 911 call of a possible assault in the area. We`ve learned from her family that she believed she

was hearing a sexual assault. The Bureau of Criminal Apprehension that is now leading the investigation pretty much says officers responded to the

911 call and at one point an officer fired a weapon fatally striking a woman.

What we learned today was the name of the officer, Mohamed Noor, who has been on the department for about two years now, but exactly what happened

from the moment she made the call to the moment the shots are fired, those are those pieces that we are waiting to learn from officials that are

investigating this matter. We have learned that Officer Noor was sitting in the passenger seat of the car when he fired across the other officer`s body

who was driving out the driver`s side window hitting Justine Damond. That`s about where we are at in terms of the facts of the case that we`ve learned.

BANFIELD: Jeff, it`s just sort of mystifying. A young woman reportedly still wearing her pajamas approaching the driver`s side door of the

cruiser, ultimately, if the reports are accurate, being shot by the passenger side officer through the driver`s side window of the cruiser.

Let me bring in Randy Sutton for a moment. He`s a retired lieutenant with the Las Vegas Police Department. Randy, the facts -- listen. There are

scattered and there aren`t a lot of them, but from what you know now, does any of this make any sense to you?

RANDY SUTTON, RETIRED LIEUTENANT, LAS VEGAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: No, it doesn`t. I have more questions than I think even you do. There`s so many

factors here that we just don`t know. What is actually the most mystifying to me is why there isn`t a little more transparency at this point? I

guarantee you that there`s already been a summation of the facts and there are people with the knowledge. My question is why aren`t they giving that

knowledge out.

There are other questions that really arise here. I want to talk about the body cam for just one second. It`s very possible that they didn`t activate

those body cams because they had not arrived at the scene where they were actually dispatched. There`s a very good possibility that when she came out

of the building or wherever she was at to approach the police, they didn`t have time to activate the cameras because they were going to do it when

they actually got to the address. But because we know so little, it`s very difficult to make a determination at this time.

But also the fact that the passenger fired through the driver`s door, the only time that that should happen is if there is a -- either a very grave

threat because that places that other officer into jeopardy as well.

BANFIELD: In danger, sure. He`s right in the path of the fire. Hold on one second because there is this other element and it`s the emotional element

of this case. I think that Ms. Ruszczyk was supposed to get married next month. I think her wedding is planned for next month in August. And her

fiance, his name is Don Damond. He spoke to the press and he gave this statement. Let me play it for our audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON DAMOND, FIANCE OF JUSTINE RUSZCZYK: It was Justine who called 911 on Saturday evening reporting what she believed was an active sexual assault

occurring nearby. Sadly, her family and I have been provided with almost no additional information from law enforcement regarding what happened after

police arrived. We`ve lost the dearest of people, and we`re desperate for information. Piecing together Justine`s last moments before the homicide

would be a small comfort as we grieve this tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Again, that`s Don Damond, the fiance in this story. Joey Jackson joins me live from New York now. You know, as a really skilled defense

attorney, Joey, you got to deal with the emotion of this. You got the deal with the bizarre nature of this.

[20:55:00] Then you got to deal with the facts. What do you think the chances of these officers getting a fair shake in this case are going to

be?

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Ashleigh, I do think they`ll get a fair shake and I do think there

will be a complete investigation. But this just tears you apart. It just rips your heart right out.

You look at that young man who had such a promising and beautiful life and you look at a woman who was assisting her community, who felt and thought

that there was something going and something amiss and she calls and she`s dead. A lot of questions. Hopefully they get answers, hopefully the family

get justice. You know what, Ashleigh, hopefully there will be a conclusion on this soon.

BANFIELD: Yes, let`s hope. It`s a real tragedy for sure. Joey, thank you for that. Folks, stand by. We`re back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tomorrow night on "Primetime Justice," what was it like to be O.J. Simpson`s guard?

[21:00:00] We`ll ask somebody who for six years was one of his former guards. Not just that, but also his protector and his best friend at

Lovelock Prison. You will not believe what O.J. told him about a whole lot of things, including the murders of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

Coming up next, CNN Special Report --The O.J. Trial: Drama of the Century. It begins right now.

END