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Inside The Fight To Repeal & Replace Obamacare; Special Report: 'The Carolyn Warmus Story' Tonight On CNN; Trump Urges Mexican President To Stop Criticizing Wall. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired August 4, 2017 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:02] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: -- very different, I totally agree. That the sense I got. Because look, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski they were actually the only Republican senators to go against their leaderships Obamacare replacement plans all the way through the process. The two women were close before this. But this high profile and high intensity experience took their bond to a new level.
BASH: I was watching you with your desks next to each other and you could sort of sense a bit of relief that each of you had that you had one another. Did I read that right?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: I will say that I was very happy that Lisa was literally sitting next to me as we were voting from our seats which, as you know, is unusual and is used for only very important votes.
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R), ALASKA: To have that weight, that responsibility, knowing that your vote really is that pivotal, it does help to know that there is another kindred soul close by.
BASH: You are both heroes to a lot of people and heretics to a lot of people. How do you see yourselves?
COLLINS: Well, I see myself as someone who has an obligation to represent the people of Maine, and sometimes that means casting uncomfortable votes, votes that will make my party uncomfortable and even angry at me.
MURKOWSKI: You want to vote to do the right thing. And so worrying about the consequences, are you fearful of repercussion from your party, a tweet from the president, a backlash from your leadership, you should -- I don't believe that we should be motivated or discouraged from taking the positions that are important to the people that we represent in our respective states.
BASH: Can you give me a sense of the kind of pressure that you had and how you handled it? How did that bear itself out? Phone calls?
COLLINS: Well, phone calls, meeting. I had a private meeting with the vice president at one point.
BASH: And is it hard at that point? You ran on repealing Obamacare. This is the time. The bell is ringing, go.
MURKOWSKI: I had an opportunity when we were at the White House, the second time that we were over there. And it was a very directed appeal that we need to come together as Republicans.
I made a statement to the president, with my colleagues and with his team there, that I'm not voting for the Republican Party. I am voting for the people of Alaska.
COLLINS: I remember being so proud of you for saying directly to the president what your obligations were. And that's the way I feel, too. The people of Maine don't expect me to be a rubber stamp.
BASH: You both are opposed to any cuts to Planned Parenthood because of what it means in your states. If you were male senators, do you think that it would be such a priority for you to make sure that Planned Parenthood is not cut?
COLLINS: That's a really good question. The issue of family planning services, cancer screening, well women care, probably does resonate with us more than with our male colleagues.
And to me, it was so unfair to single out the one Medicaid provider and say to women in particular, you can't choose which health care provider you want to go to.
BASH: I want to borrow a phrase from the first female Secretary of State, who talked about cojones. And a lot of people are saying that you two have more cojones than a lot of the guys around here. You buy that?
COLLINS: I -- you know, every senator has to make his or her own decisions, so I wouldn't judge my colleagues.
MURKOWSKI: I absolutely agree.
BASH: You guys have some pretty stiff spines.
COLLINS: That I'd go with.
BASH: Did Senator McCain come to you before he cast the last vote against the health care bill? Did you know?
COLLINS: Well, I so remember when both Lisa and I were talking with John McCain on the Senate floor and he pointed to both of us and he said, you two are right on this issue.
MURKOWSKI: Yes. Yes. And to have the conversation that we had after the vote, we had one of those conversations that you'll think of years down the road where he said, people might not appreciate what has happened right now as being a positive. Maybe our colleagues are not going to be viewing this as a positive right now.
[08:35:19] But the time will prove that having a pause, having a time out for us to do better is going to be good for the country. And it was a good, good, strong John McCain message. BASH: I've seen Congress and Congress people when they have some political fear of their president. And he tried to intimidate you on Twitter, you know, very directly, specifically maybe having his interior secretary call you.
MURKOWSKI: You can't live in fear that the direction that you're going to take, that you believe is truly in your state's best interest.
BASH: Did you feel that he was trying to intimidate you?
MURKOWSKI: I would just say that the president and I had a very direct call.
BASH: Do you think that there's been a shift among your Republican colleagues as it relates to the president?
COLLINS: Many of us are still very interested in the president's agenda.
MURKOWSKI: Finding those areas where we are working together, partnering, this is what we should be doing. If there's rhetoric that is out there that is not constructive to governing, I think it is important to speak up, and I think you are starting to see a little bit of that.
BASH: And another area where these senators particularly Susan Collins, who is on the Intelligence Committee, where they're investigating the Russia situation where they kind of separate from the president is on the special counsel, John and Alisyn.
They -- and Collins in particular said she believes that, according to CNN's reporting the fact that the special counsel is expanding the probe to the president's financial situation. She believes that's OK. He had a broad mandate. And I said to her, well, about the red line? She said, that was the president has said, that would crossing the red line and she laughed. She said the president doesn't get to tell Bob Mueller where the red lines are.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Really interesting, Dana, to hear just all of their thought process and that exchange with John McCain just a great, great reporting on your part. Thank you so much.
BASH: Thank you so much.
CAMEROTA: OK. So President Trump continues to tout a strong economy. Will the new jobs report give him good news before he heads out on vacation? We have the numbers next.
[08:40:31] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We got some breaking news. The Labor Department just released the July jobs report and it is good. Strong numbers here. Alison Kosik joins us now with the details. Alison?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK. So, for July, 209,000 jobs were added that is better than expected. And with these gains, it means that more than 1 million jobs have been add the since President Trump took office. Though -- although you look at the trend, it's not quite trending to the 25 million he promised to add within 10 years. If you want to see that, you need to see an average of 208,000 jobs added per month.
All right. What else? What are the other takeaways? Unemployment falling 4.3 percent, this is the lowest level in 16 years. And we're approaching this level of unemployment that economists like to call full employment. The interesting phenomenon going on here is it's a double-edged sword because you're seeing a ton of openings, job openings across the country more than 6 million.
But employers are having a problem time filling them which means wages aren't growing. We found out today that wages rose only 2.5 percent compared to last year. So that's a one sticking point, Alisyn that we're seeing with the jobs picture, those wages aren't accelerating fast enough. Alisyn.
BASH: OK. Al, thank you very much. Fascinating, I mean the lowest in 16 years. Thank you for all of that.
So, tonight, on CNN, there's a new special report it's called fatal attraction or fatal mistake. And this is the Carolyn Warmus story. Kyra Phillips talked to the convicted killer. And Kyra joins us now. Kyra, tell us everything.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, do you remember the movie Fatal Attraction, right? This was a trial -- you remember the movie, right?
PHILLIPS: OK. Well, this was trial. That was a blockbuster at the time. Everybody had seen that movie. And then this trial was billed as the real life version Fatal Attraction. And Carolyn Warmus, she was this beautiful 20-something-year-old school teacher and she was having an affair with a married man. And then his wife ends up dead. Well, she goes on trial for murder and there's a hung jury.
But then just before the second trial, her lover Paul Solomon finds a bloody glove. Sound familiar? But this one was found in his closet. And just like a bloody glove acquitted O.J. Simpson, this bloody glove convicted Carolyn Warmus 25 years in jail. And now, she says she can prove her innocence. Here's just a part of her story.
PHILLIPS (voice-over): February 2nd, 1990, more than a year after of the brutal killing of Betty Jeanne Solomon, Carolyn Warmus was charged with her murder.
CAROLYN WARMUS, ACCUSED OF MURDERING HER FORMER LOVER'S WIFE: I didn't find out until the newspaper called me.
(on camera): That's how you found you out you were a suspect?
WARMUS: Yes. I didn't know what they were talking about. I couldn't imagine on what have I don't, what could I possible done? And they said, well, for the murder of Betty Jeanne Solomon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been the subject of front page magazine story, tabloid head lines for months. The day a long awaited fatal attraction trial of Carolyn Warmus opened up in Westchester County.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say the Westchester community's state of mind about Carolyn was that she was guilty almost immediately. There was implicit judgment against a woman who was having an affair with a married man.
(voice-over): A tabloid sensation, chased by dozens of reporters, described as a murderess home wrecker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An insinuator itself ended a life of her lover.
(voice-over): Warmus tried to camouflage herself with sunglasses, scarfs, even blankets.
(on camera): Why did you want to protect your identity?
WARMUS: I said, you know, I'm a school teacher and I want to go back and be a school teacher. And I said if I keep letting them take photos of me, I mean I'm never going to be able to teach again. I mean, it's going to be tough enough as it is with this case.
CAMEROTA: OK. So, Kyra, tell us more about the glove.
PHILLIPS: Right. Well, so here is the deal with the glove. The blood on the glove was only months old when it was discovered. But the murder had happened three years prior. And the blood was never tested. So whose blood is on that glove?
DNA testing is totally different now than it was in the past Alisyn. And Carolyn Warmus insists that if that blood is tested it's going to prove her innocence. And let me tell you, she has a course of defenders supporting her right now and pushing for this appeal. I mean specialists in misconduct. And so, it was interesting to sit down with her. And it was interesting to put this together. That's for sure.
CAMEROTA: It looks fascinating. I can't wait to watch it Kyra. Thanks so much for sharing it with us. And you can join us for our CNN Special Report, Fatal Attraction or Fatal Mistake? The Carolyn Warmus story tonight at 10:00 eastern.
[08:45:11] BERMAN: Fantastic.
All right. At age 14, CNN Hero, Mariuma Ben Yosef was living alone on the streets after years of struggle. She managed to create a stable life. And for the past 32 years has dedicated that life to helping vulnerable youth in Israel, providing that not only with the safe- haven but something more, a family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIUMA BEN YOSEF, SHANTI HOUSE: To be homeless in a young age, it's very lonely. When you don't have your family, you will always have this black hole. I know exactly what they're going through. I want children to breathe, I want them to feel alive, I want them to feel secure, I want them to feel that they can be hugged, and they will not be in danger. We can see it in a different way and win life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: See how she is helping these young adults win at life. Go to CNNHeros.com. And while you're there, nominate someone you think should be a 2017 CNN Hero.
CAMEROTA: OK. There are new questions this morning about President Trump's signature campaign pledge building the border wall after transcripts of a phone call with Mexico's president are leaked. Former Mexican president, Vicente Fox who famously told the president that Mexico would never pay for that wall. He joins us live, next.
[08:50:11] CAMEROTA: Remember the promise that Mexico would pay for the border wall? Well, now, for the first time we are hearing how those conversations went behind the scenes between President Trump and the president of Mexico. Joining us now is Vicente Fox, the former president of Mexico to share his thoughts on all of these. Good morning President Fox.
VICENTE FOX, FORMER PRESIDENT OF MEXICO: Good morning Alisyn. Good morning America.
CAMEROTA: OK. These -- the transcript of the conversation between President Trump and the President Pena Nieto has been leaked. And so we now understand for the first time, these two gentlemen talking about that border wall and it is something that President Pena Nieto got right to in this phone conversation that he brought it up immediately with President Trump. And he said basically, it is unacceptable for Mexican -- the Mexican people to pay for the wall. But he also used this language. And I want to read it to you.
He said, this is from President Pena Nieto, for both our governments, this could constitute a win-win situation. Let us look for ways to save this political issue so that we can remove this difficulty and so that we can also be creative on this, Mr. President. Is that the tone that you would have taken with President Trump?
FOX: That's exactly that. I don't think its right to speak or by unilateral imposition to another nation is through dialogue. And we did that with President Bush administration. We came to an agreement that is a bill presented in Congress that deals with how to handle the border, how to handle migration. Civilized people is what we do. We speak, we discuss, we negotiate and we come to agreement. We don't try to impost our will. And if you notice in that conversation, what Trump is trying to do is to save face in front of his voters. He is not looking after America and a great America. It's just him trying to save face.
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean I get that, what I'm struck by is how diplomatic President Pena Nieto is being. You have not minced words about what you would have said to President Trump. And I'm just wondering if you think that President Pena Nieto, look, this was a very long conversation. It goes on for pages, the transcript does. So, it's hard to just take one moment, and not give it context. But, do you think that the president of Mexico should have been more forceful in saying it's never going to happen?
FOX: Well, you can use my walls. We'll never pay for that fucking wall. Would that full F wall, that makes it more clear. But it's still who can think about a country paying for a wall that is going to be built in the neighbor's territory? Or why should Mexico pay for the wall? What's the reason? We don't need a wall. If Trump wants to build that wall, he have to go to Congress, U.S. Congress. And he has to tell the truth to U.S. taxpayers that they're going to pay for that.
FOX: That's all clear.
CAMEROTA: I apologize to our morning audience for the salty language this morning. Perhaps I should have taken that offer for the 5-second delay.
President Fox, let me play for you what President Pena Nieto then said that the moment that you're talking about where President Trump explained what his real motivation was for wanting President Pena Nieto to say that Mexico would somehow pay for the wall. Listen to this.
My position -- this is from President Pena Nieto. My position has been and will continue to be very firm saying that Mexico cannot pay for that wall. President Trump says, but you cannot say that to the press. The press is going to go with that and I cannot live with that. Your thoughts?
FOX: That is a dictator's position to shut up press. That's incredible that United States people is -- it's accepting a president that doesn't want media. That he calls media all kinds of heavy words and he's trying to shut him down. That's exactly what Maduro did in Venezuela. That's the attitude of a dictator. And Trump has to learn that United States is a democracy where you have three branches of power.
CAMEROTA: Yes. But this is different. I mean this isn't him here censoring the press. This isn't him saying, I want to shut down the press. This is him saying we can't be honest with the press because I made that campaign promise. [08:54:57] FOX: Well, yes, and further than that, I mean we learned today, three months after that conversation, that he had been denying and denying. So he's always lying to the American people. And that's incredible. I mean how can he get some trust on what he's going to do? What about the rest of the world? How can we trust a U.S. president that lies every minute of the day?
I mean we are shocked outside here in the world. We're absolutely shocked. We have never thought we will be in a situation like this with a leading nation of the world, the greatest nation of the world United States, the most compulsive and most fair and just nation now begins to use big -- we seem to be watching the ugly American coming back, the gringo feel that we never would like to see again intervening in nations, acting with stick and lying to people.
CAMEROTA: Well, let me play for you what this moment is where President Trump says that, you know, Mexico and United States basically need to be in this together. This is another bit of the transcript. President Pena Nieto says, we have to generate jobs and we have to be stronger and we have be growing. I share that position with you. President Trump says, it is you and I against the world, Enrique, do not forget. Is that how the Mexican people see it that it is America and Mexico together against the world?
FOX: It is American-Mexico in favor of the world working for a better world, building a better world, building better our North American economic possibilities. And this is what has worked throughout the 22 last years with NAFTA. Everything is going fluently. Now, he's changing migration laws. I mean it's -- I think he think. But he needs laborer, he needs man power in United States is badly needed otherwise we're going to pick up the apples in Washington states.
FOX: Or harvest the deals of California. It's incredible. We have to work together. That is the message that we have to get in his head.
CAMEROTA: President Vicente Fox, always unpredictable. Thank you very much for joining us with the ever surprising interview moments. We appreciate you being here.
FOX: Alisyn, thank you, thank you America. Let's move on. Let's just stand up and let's defend our rights and our freedom in United States before this guy takes over.
CAMEROTA: Thank you very much. We'll talk to you again.
BERMAN: You're blushing at the naughty language. But I know, you know, you don't mind because I've read your book "Amanda Wakes Up" and there's all kinds of naughty stuff that comes on in this.
CAMEROTA: I hope that this is your beach read this weekend. Available now.
BERMAN: A lot of S-E-X in there. All right. CNN NEWSROOM with Poppy Harlow picks up right after this quick break.
CAMEROTA: Have a great weekend.