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Special Council Team Investigating The Trump White House In The 2016 Election Is Working; Vice President Mike Pence To Run As President In 2020; 7-Year-Old Transgender Girl Rattles The Bathroom Door Asking Lawmakers In Texas Let Her In; The Jobs Report For July On Friday And The Numbers Are Looking Very Good For The White House; Stock Market In Multiple Record High This Week. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 6, 2017 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:03] ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. So glad you could be with us this weekend. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.
Washington D.C. relatively quiet this weekend. The President is away. Congress is taking the month off, but not every office is dark. The special council team investigating the Trump White House in the 2016 election is working as the group the President insists is on a witch hunt.
Now, according to the ranking member of the House intelligence committee, developments over the past few days seem to show that the investigators led by former FBI chief Robert Mueller has something solid enough to move on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Instead, if these allegations are true, it's moving into a new phase with the empaneling of a grand jury so that special counsel can subpoena witnesses and documents. That wouldn't be taking place if there was really no evidence, no evidentiary basis to move forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Whatever that evidence is, only that special counsel team knows at this point. But they did something unprecedented this weekend, reportedly asking the White House for paperwork related to former national security adviser Michael Flynn and whatever financial arrangements he has had with the government of Turkey.
I want to bring in CNN's Boris Sanchez.
Boris, today we heard from deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein. Now, important because he is the man who appointed Mueller. What have we learned about his feelings on where this investigation is headed?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Ana, really a fascinating interview. And it gives you some insight into how the deputy attorney general feels about not only the investigation, but also the trust that he has in the man that he hired in Bob Mueller. The first part of the interview he talked about the fact that the
convening of a grand jury and the evidence and testimony that they are going to see doesn't necessarily mean that there are going to be charges brought about by the special counsel. He says it is a natural part of an investigation in its natural course. Obviously, you heard a different perspective from Adam Schiff there saying the fact that this has gone on for a year and continues to move forward is an indication that there is something there. Rosenstein held back on that.
He also addressed concern that the special counsel might be going outside of the general scope of the investigation. Remember, this is supposed to be about alleged ties between the Trump campaign and Russia. And we have gotten news over the past few weeks that the special counsel is now also potentially looking into Trump's finances. He gave a very specific response saying that this is not a fishing expedition. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROD ROSENSTEIN, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: The special counsel is subject to the rules and regulations of the department of justice and we don't engage in fishing expeditions. Now, that order that you read, that doesn't detail specifically who may be the subject of the investigation because we don't reveal that publicly. But Bob Mueller understands and I understand the specific scope of the investigation. And so no, it's not a fishing expedition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You hear it there, it is a vote of confidence in Bob Mueller. He went on to say that if Mueller perhaps found something that was outside of that scope, he would then need to go back to the acting attorney general in this case Rod Rosenstein to ask for permission to pursue charges.
So you are hearing a lot of different perspectives about this investigation. Kellyanne Conway saying that it is a complete fabrication, echoing the President's call that this is a witch hunt, but it's interesting to hear from Rosenstein who again, hired Bob Mueller after Jeff SESSIONS, the attorney general had to recuse himself from his own interesting conversations with the Russian ambassador and what he ultimately apparently didn't disclose to congress, Ana.
CABRERA: Boris Sanchez in Washington for us. Thank you.
Now the people speaking for President Trump this weekend insist that whatever those federal investigators are doing, they are chasing shadows. As Boris mentioned, here is how Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the President, approached this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, WHITE HOUSE COUNSELOR: The entire Russia investigation is a hypothetical. The President called it a fiction, total fabrication to excuse the colossal and unexpected, unwanted defeat of Hillary Clinton in last year's election. People just can't get over that election, George. It's corrosive to our body politic. The President is going to continue to talk about America. And I suppose others sadly, will continue to talk about Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: So we have a great CNN panel here to talk all about this. National security analyst Juliette Kayyem, also global affairs analyst and former U.S. state department advisor Aaron David Miller and political analyst Josh Rogin.
Juliette, to you first. You just heard Kellyanne Conway call this a total fabrication, her words, this Russia investigation. Yet we have a grand jury that has been empanelled.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right.
CABRERA: We have the White House being asked to turn over documents related to the former national security adviser. That's a lot of action for a total fabrication.
KAYYEM: Yes. It is only a figment of I think her imagination that this is nothing. At this stage, the questions that Robert Mueller is asking the number of prosecutors he has hired, the depth of their expertise in everything from financial issues to, of course, collusion which is the ultimate question, that is real.
And the irony, I think for the White House as well, they keep saying, you know, the country wants to move on. This is nothing. It is actually Donald Trump who keeps bringing it up on twitter and keeps going after Mueller. It's his people who are making totally unfounded accusations about Mueller and about others who are affiliated with him.
So this will continue. And it will continue until Mueller has something or he doesn't. And the pace of it seems absolutely normal from I'm a lawyer from a law enforcement perspective. There is nothing that's too fast or too slow and we will see what happens.
[19:05:32] CABRERA: In terms of the pace, any idea, do you have a sense of how long this will go on?
CABRERA: I'm with many of the legal analysts here. And I think that the grand jury was inevitable. And you have that many lawyers looking at something where there is not going to want to potentially bring maybe more serious charges.
I think it is wrong to assume that the only thing out there is obstruction of justice. People are sort of focus on that issue. These are substantive people. This is a substantive team working for Mueller. They are looking at questions related to potentially Flynn and one of the sons to Jared Kushner or the President himself and that will take a while. Because remember, as one witness you know turns or is willing to speak that then opens up another series of investigations and discussions. So this thing will unfold as a lot of conspiracies unfold, if there is, in fact, a conspiracy.
CABRERA: I want to just pivot a little bit, Aaron David Miller, and talk about those telephone transcripts that emerged a few days ago. They were leaked. The White House obviously did not want them to get out. They detailed conversations between the President and leaders of Mexico and Australia, a couple of American allies. What do those phone calls reveal about this President?
AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, they don't reveal anything that I would consider to be highly sensitive or highly classified. They say two things to me. Number one that this White House was clearly not prepared to engage in these conversations. And they speak volumes, I think, about the President's temperament.
I mean, Oliver Wendell Holmes said that the FDR with the second-class intellect and first-class temperament and emotional intelligence, self-control and keeping your demons under wraps, critically important for the Presidential leadership. And I think what these phone calls reflect and it was early in the administration, let's be clear, we have not seen another lead transcript. And I suspect that's a consequence of the fact that there is a certain degree of learning curve here.
I mean, it's these conversations, the ones that are transcribed in the White House with four or five people in the room, taking notes, maybe two or three people, maybe a dozen or so people have access I suspect to these, you can double that number and somebody.
And look, as you know and Juliette knows, so did Josh, people leak for all kind of reasons. They want to feel important. They want to talk to the media. There is a political angle sometimes institutional rivalry, but it reflects finally, I think a real dysfunction in the White House. Hopefully, hopefully, General Kelly will at least attend to the system. He may not be able to fix the President's temperament.
CABRERA: But how much do these leaks hurt diplomatically?
MILLER: Well, I mean, if you believe that our allies pay attention to these things, you might argue, you are the President of France. You are the prime minister of Germany, do you want a detailed, confidential, discreet conversation with the President of the United States when you know that, in essence, you can't be sure that you are the most sensitive elements, not in this conversation, or in these conversations won't be protected.
So like WikiLeaks in 2011, it has created I'm sure, a certain amount of pause, but I suspect our allies and our frenemies will get over this. And the conversations, the honest ones will probably continue.
CABRERA: Josh Rogin, back to the special counsel investigation but bigger picture, is it as big of a deal overseas as it is here in the United States? I mean, how closely are other world leaders watching how the President is handling this?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it is safe to say there is concern, dismay, fear, confusion. Just sort of wonder all over the world amongst allies and adversaries alike about how this investigation and the White House's reaction to it has seized the political discussion in Washington and crowded out the discussion and action on so many other important issues. Of course, it's not just the investigation. It's a series of events and a series of statements and a series of policies coming out of the White House and the state department for that matter that revealed that American foreign policy is just not what it used to be, often incoherent, often confusing. Relationships with foreign governments and foreign entities and foreign organizations are changing rapidly in unpredictable ways.
We are getting different messages from vice President Pence, secretary of state Rex Tillerson and the President himself. And this is creating not only just sort of incoherence and confusion in foreign policy, but a gap where America used to lead in several issues that is now being chilled by other countries and especially our adversaries.
So you know, most people around the world, mist diplomats around the world that I talked to don't know what is going on, and I say to them the same thing. I say we don't know what's going on either, OK. Because basically, what we have got if you look at everything with the Russia investigation, our foreign policy confusion and the lack of real strategy and direction on important issues like Afghanistan, Syria and ISIS, you know, that creates a picture where actual real consideration of foreign policy strategy really can happen and that's problematic for a whole number of reasons.
[19:10:26] CABRERA: Now credit where credit is due, there was a big foreign policy win this weekend for the Trump White House and his administration showing some real leadership on the international stage with these North Korea sanctions. Now, these are the toughest sanctions yet imposed by the U.N. on North Korea.
But Juliette, sanctions in the past haven't worked with North Korea. Kim Jong-un continues to advance his weapons program and his nuclear program. Why are we to believe that this is going to work this time?
KAYYEM: Yes. I think we have to think of the sanctions and what happened yesterday. Is it success for the Trump administration? And there is, you know, there is no -- you don't have to sort of question or anything. It was a success. And the reason why it was a success is that Russia and China were onboard immediately. And then even today, at an Asian conference the Chinese foreign minister came out quite strong against North Korea. So that is good news in the sense that the carrots and the sticks are working. This is going to have an impact.
I think the irony of what has happened is that President Trump's foreign policy a little bit to what Josh gets, he talks about America alone or America first and we don't need the U.N. and we don't need NATO.
Arguably, their best success in foreign policy was getting the U.N. Security Council onboard for the North Korea sanctions, suggesting that America first really isn't a policy that is useful in a world like ours right now where global ties and you need a community of nations going against a country like North Korea together. So that is the irony of the success.
ROGIN: I would very quickly add that I believe this success will be very short lived. If you look at what the Chinese officials actually said in Manila today, they said that we should go right back to negotiations in a freeze for freeze trade, OK. The Russian foreign minister said that met with Rex Tillerson and said that the U.S. is to blame for escalating vengeance because of the military buildup in the area, OK.
Sure, we can agree on incremental sanctions, but incremental sanctions are going to never solve the problem. Actually, Russia and China and the United States are very far apart on North Korea. The only think we can agree on this is that the crisis is getting worse any worse. So we have to be careful to not pat ourselves too much on the back when we get these sort of U.S. security council resolutions because they really don't solve the problem and the gaps between us and the Russian and the Chinese is something that the administration has yet to really address.
CABRERA: And just because there is that gap there, I want to get your take, Aaron David Miller on the fact that Russia went along with these sanctions. Because when I talk with Steve Hall, former CIA guy, expert in things Russia, he said we should be skeptical about Russia jumping on the sanctions on the bandwagon.
MILLER: I mean, yes, I think Putin is playing a very smart game. And he is playing the President in the United States like a finely tune violin. But nonetheless, for two reasons.
Number one, I think according some political space to try to work out some sort of arrangement with Donald Trump. And second, likely, the Russians are going to follow the Chinese on this issue.
One point about the Chinese. I think they are playing in a remarkably skillful game. They are keeping Donald Trump on the hook by doing just enough to demonstrate that, in fact, you can work with the Chinese on this issue.
Meanwhile, they are picking off former American allies in Asia. President Duterte is one. The weak language that emerged from Asian (ph) on the code of conduct from the South China sea enables the Chinese and the support that the Philippine prime minister or foreign minister gave to the Chinese by saying it is not even worth confronting the Chinese in this area seems to me to be the case.
I think the Chinese are very skillful. I think Josh is right. We are very far apart on what needs to be done in order to fix this. And the Chinese are pushing. You have heard of Chinese foreign minister for double suspension. Double freeze for double freeze. That is what they are going to push. And so far the administration, rightly or wrongly is not prepared to consider that as an option. Only deal with (INAUDIBLE). And the horse is already out of the barn in terms of North Korean nukes.
ROGIN: Yes. I think that is right. We should just also say here that the Chinese and Russians are undermining sanctions by increasing economic activity with North Korea at the same time that they are agreeing to these U.N. Security Council resolutions, OK. So we can't let that distract us, right?
CABRERA: We will keep an eye.
Josh Rogin, Juliette Kayyem and Aaron David Miller, I hate to cut you off, Josh. We have to leave it there. But a lot of smart stuff going on.
Thank you, guys.
Coming up, too early to top 2020? A new report suggests what the vice President has been up to may hint he is even eyeing a White House run for President. But Pence's response is scathing.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
[19:19:08] CABRERA: Disgraceful, offensive and categorically false. That is how vice President Mike Pence is describing a new report that says he might just try to launch his own bid for President in 2020. Now the rebuke came after this "New York times" story detailing a Republican shadow campaign as donors raised concerns about President Trump's future.
In response, the vice President said this in part. Whatever fake news may come our way, my entire team will continue to focus all our efforts to advance the President's agenda and see him re-elected in 2020. Any suggestion otherwise is both laughable and absurd.
Joining me now, CNN political analyst and White House correspondent for American Urban Radio network April Ryan.
April, thanks for joining us this weekend. I want to get your take at just how plausible it really is that so early in this administration Republicans would be focused on a shadow campaign possibly with the vice President as their candidate.
[19:20:00] APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Ana, you know, we didn't think we would be seeing this day seven months in, you know, seven months ago. We never thought this. And right now with this Mueller investigation and the severity of it and as each day grows, something new comes out.
Now the grand jury, there is a real issue here. We do not know where this will go. We don't even know, really, if Donald Trump, President Donald Trump will make it to 2020. I mean, we just don't know what's going on.
CABRERA: And you think that is driving the speculation or even a real effort to perhaps get some alternatives.
RYAN: Look, even as the White House is trying to knock it down, they are really trying to make this spin machine work. They are trying to say that, you know, we are strong. This is a great machine and we are trudging forward. We are doing the business of the people. They are trying to do the business of the people. They are trying in their way. But what's hanging overhead is Russia. Russia is very real. And it's not just real for the President, but is real for some of those who worked for him and even his son and his son-in-law. So this is a real issue. And the American public is listening.
And I have been saying, you know, at first, people like, yes, Russia is not really a big thing. But I said once the dots start to be connected with Mueller, that's when things are going to get deep. And it is starting to show. We are seeing poll numbers erode. We are seeing buyer remorse with some of these bait. I mean, it is whittling away slowly but it is happening. And I have been hearing from my sources in the Republican Party, they are watching the numbers. There has been a big concerns almost from the first couple of months. And I mean, we are still in the first couple of months. But almost from the very beginning and said you know, if they see the numbers erode, they are going to go for broke in 2018. And so that's just telling you for 2018. They are trying to say what's happening with these elections in 2018 because we are seeing now many of these elections that used to be safe are so close. Why? Because of what's happening. It's Russia. It's the tweets. It's all of the chaos. We have never seen anything like this before.
CABRERA: I want to ask you about the tweets because we are hearing from Bloomberg today that John Kelly has actually come in and made a difference on how the President is forming those tweets and firing them off saying essentially that he is even consulting with John Kelly's new chief of staff on some of these tweets. And Kelly has some input in asking him to maybe change the wording and tamp them down. And we have notably, when you go back and look at his twitter feed in just the past few days, it has been pretty notable that he has been tweeting more on message and more about the issues and more about what his administration wants to highlight like the jobs numbers, for example. He tweeted this on the United Nations Security Council vote voting 15-0 on the sanctions on North Korea. Do you think that is the work of John Kelly?
RYAN: Well, let me say this. Since day one and the President's tweets, so many people have been talking about him from Kellyanne to Sarah Huckabee Sanders before she was press secretary to Sean Spicer when he was press secretary. And Sean even said from the podium when he was press secretary that the tweets are official. So if they are official, this President sometimes has no filter and he is very impulsive with his tweets.
And as we know, words can start wars. Words can also shift markets. He touts a great market. But you know, you want to stop while you are ahead. And John Kelly, for whatever it's worth, he may be a positive influence there. You know, for entertainment value, it's great, but for a world leader and rural communities and this country, it may not be the best thing for him to be so impulsive with his tweeting and if John Kelly is doing that, good for him.
CABRERA: April, just a quick answer, if you will. I want to get your take on the new report of Stephen Miller, one the President's advisers, now being thrown perhaps into the role of communications director. That is what we are hearing from the White House official. He is being considered. How will that impact this White House relationship with the press?
RYAN: Did you see that last press briefing?
CABRERA: Yes. And that's why I'm asking because you had a kind of a contentious back and forth with him and we also saw that happen with our Jim Acosta.
RYAN: Yes. Well, you know, mine, it wasn't contentious. I just wanted an answer because he kept talking about the black unemployment rate for black adult males and you hadn't been hearing that before. And it was, you know, so many people who were watching and people from prior administrations and people from labor departments, prior labor departments were saying it almost sounded like, well, it really was the pinning of the black and brown community against the immigrant community. And the question was instead of just of thinking about it, if you are going to put this out here, you are talking about a consultation. Let's talk about this or have a conversation about it.
Instead of just talk, are you going to target and he could never give an answer. So that's what the back and forth was about. But I will tell you, he took that press room to a very new low. He called Jim Acosta ignorant. I have never heard that but I have heard some things in that room before for the last 20 years, not two days, not 20 days, 20 years. That was a new low. So - but he did apologize to Jim. But it was out there for history's sake and it will be replayed over and over again that he said that.
But the question is who is he working for? Is he working for the President who likes that kind of combative back and forth with the press or is he working for the American people trying to help solve issues and deal with real-life issues? That's the question. What is it going to be? A combative communications director? I mean, we had a little bit of that with the last guy, Scaramucci. He was escorted out, but we will see.
CABRERA: He didn't last very long.
RYAN: Ten days.
CABRERA: Thank you so much for joining us this weekend. We appreciate it as always.
RYAN: Thanks, Ana.
CABRERA: Coming up after a quick break a 7-year-old transgender girl rattles the bathroom door asking lawmakers in Texas let her in. Meet Libby Gonzales next.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
[19:30:19] CABRERA: A feisty and brave 7-year-old adding a powerful voice to the fight against the so-called Texas bathroom bill. Now, if made law this bill would require transgender men, women and children to use the restroom based on the gender on their birth certificate.
Libby Gonzales was just three years old, three, when her parents realized something about her that would turn them into activists by accident.
CNN's Nick Valencia has more.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was January 2016 when Libby Gonzales turned to her mother and said, next Christmas I want Santa to turn me into a little girl. Libby Gonzales is seven years old and she is transgender.
FRANK GONZALES, LIBBY'S FATHER: This is an emotional time when she came out to me. The best thing that I can do is just to embrace her and love her for who she was.
VALENCIA: It was around the age of three that the parents of Libby Gonzales say they realized their child wasn't living her authentic life. Doctors say Libby Gonzales was born a boy, but she identifies as a girl. Libby is transgender.
LIBBY GONZALES, TRANSGENDER: My name is Libby Gonzales. I am seven years old and I am transgender.
VALENCIA: Over the last year, Libby has become a strong voice against the so-called Texas bathroom bill. This is her testifying against the legislation earlier this year at the state capitol.
L. GONZALES: I love my school and my friends and they love me, too. I don't want to be scared to go to the restroom.
VALENCIA: If the bill becomes a law, it would require people like Libby to use restrooms in government buildings and other institutions based on the gender they were assigned at birth not how they identify. Libby's father, Frank Gonzales, says the bill would put his daughter at risk of being hurt or worse.
F. GONZALES: It specifically targets transgender people. It would put my daughter in direct harm in that it would publicly out her every time she need to use the restroom.
VALENCIA: The Gonzales family has seen plenty of criticism, even death threats, they say. But to those who say a 7-year-old couldn't possibly know she is Trans, Libby's mother Rachel is defiant.
RACHEL GONZALES, LIBBY'S MOTHER: My daughter is a girl. She was born a girl. She is a girl. She lives the life of a girl and there is no reason that she should be going into the boy's restroom.
VALENCIA: The bill's main supporters include Texas governor Greg Abbott who says it isn't about discriminating Trans people. The so- called bathroom bill hit a dead end after a contentious debate during the regular legislative session. Vowing to get legislation on his desk, Governor Abbott called for a
special session which included another effort by conservative lawmakers to pass a modified version of the bill.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: At a minimum, we need a law that protects the privacy of our children and our public schools.
F. GONZALES: I will be very fearful if she were forced to use the men's restroom.
R. GONZALES: Like any parent, we want to protect our child and we are in a position that if we don't spend most of our spare time fighting the Texas governments, our child is going to be put in harm's way.
VALENCIA: The Gonzales family has testified at three public hearings against different versions of the bill at the Texas capitol. Libby's mother says the family has become accidental activists.
R. GONZALES: When you have a Trans gender child it's not just the child that transitions it's the whole family and community. I can't explain how my daughter knows that she is a girl but I can support her in living the life that she was obviously born to live.
VALENCIA: Although the speaker of the House is a Republican, he opposes the so-called bathroom bill. There are corporations across the country that oppose it, as well, saying if this becomes a law they will have to reevaluate their business relationship with the state of Texas.
Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.
CABRERA: Coming up, the DOW tops 22,000. For the first time the unemployment rate falling yet again. But can President Trump take credit for these gains? We will breakdown the numbers then get advice from a couple of financial experts when we come back live from the CNN NEWSROOM.
[19:33:22] CABRERA: We have got the jobs report for July on Friday and the numbers are looking very good for the White House. The U.S. added 209,000 jobs in just July and the unemployment rate fell to 4.3 percent, a 16-year low.
CNN's Alison Kosik breaks down what the numbers mean.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Employers added 209,000 jobs in July. So with July's gains more than one million jobs have been created while President Trump has been in office. We also saw that May's numbers were revised a bit lower. June's numbers were revised a bit higher. But if you look at the overall trend, we are not seeing enough numbers to reach that 25 million jobs that President Trump has promised to create in ten years. We would need to see an average of 208,000 jobs each month to get to that 25 million.
A few of the other takeaways from the July jobs report, unemployment falling to 4.3 percent. That's a 16-year low and it's a level getting close to what economists call full employment. The down side to that that we are seeing is we are seeing stagnant wages despite higher demand for more workers right now. Right now there are a ton of job openings in the U.S. More than six million job openings. The thing is employers can't fill those openings, yet we are not seeing these wages accelerate. Usually, you would see the wages accelerate to get people to get into those jobs. Wages rose 2.5 percent from year but it's been hovering at that level for a while. So this is a conundrum that fed has been trying to figure out.
So where did employers add job? Overall, we saw health care at 39,000 jobs, food services had a big jump 53,000 jobs added to the economy in July and business services 49,000 and manufacturing saw 16,000 job additions for July. That had a lot to do with fundamentals in the economy. So overall, July's jobs report is strong and shows the labor market continues to charge ahead.
Alison Kosik, CNN, New York.
[19:40:20] CABRERA: Thanks, Alison.
Meantime, the stock market in multiple record high this week. President Trump firing off this celebratory tweet. Business is looking better than ever with business enthusiasm at record levels. Stock market at an all-time high. That doesn't just happen.
Now, that's one of many tweets that have focused on the stock market gains this week by the President. I want to talk more about this with our panel. A couple of financial and economic experts. CNN senior economics analyst and Heritage Foundation fellow Stephen Moore. He is a former economics adviser to the Trump campaign and former international monetary fund chief economist Ken Rogoff, now a Harvard University economics professor.
Ken first and then Stephen. I want both your takes on this question. What is driving the stocks to these record highs seemingly every week right now, Ken?
KEN ROGOFF, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, first of all, the global economy, growth in Europe, Asia is good and our firms get profits from all over the world. Wages have been kind of weak, as you mentioned and that means firms keep more of the pie. But also very importantly, interest rates are really low. Sort of what else do you invest in?
I do think the President can take some credit and the stock market went up a bit. Business surveys are optimistic, but I don't think it's the lion share of what's going on. I think it's mostly other things. Yes, it does just happen. Stocks can go up.
CABRERA: Stephen, how do you see it? STEPHEN MOORE, FELLOW, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, I don't think
there's any question that Trump deserves some of the credit for the improved stock market. I mean, let's not forget the day after the election we saw the stock market go up 700 or 800 points. That really was evidence that investors were very confident and optimistic about the Trump economic agenda. So we have seen a nice ride in the stock market although, look, the stock market did well under Barack Obama, as well.
I think that where the rubber really hits the road in terms of whether the stock market continues its bull market expansion is the next big thing for Republicans is getting the tax cut done. And that will come up as soon as they come back from their summer vacation. I think that reducing the business tax rates and doing something for families will provide another shot of adrenaline for the economy. And I think the stock market could continue to rise.
CABRERA: We are looking at where it all ended on Friday. The DOW up 22 to 22,092 there, almost 23,000.
Ken, how high do you think this can go before there is a dip or even a crash?
ROGOFF: Well, one of Trump's economic people, Kevin Hassett who is going to be the head of the council of economic advisers once famously wrote a book called DOW 30,000. I don't know if we will get the 30,000. But it can go up, but it can go down. I think the stock market is pretty high and it can go on for a while. I totally agree with Steve and if policy gets on track and let's face it, they haven't done much so far, it could be helpful especially a corporate tax cut.
On the other hand, the fed might start hiking interest rates and the stock market is not going to like that. Often, that's what pricks these bubbles.
CABRERA: Stephen, go ahead.
MOORE: I was going to say, you know, when I talk to employers and ambassadors, you know, about what they like and don't like about what Trump has been doing. One of the things they like is just that Trump is sort of pro-business. I mean, I don't think there is any question about that Trump is more pro-business than Obama was. And that means less regulations.
The only thing I disagree a little bit with what Ken just said is, you know, I do think that this kind of hands off approach that there's not such a tight grip of regulation on this businesses, I think that's liberated them a bit. But let's not forget. I mean, what drives the stock market, the mother's milk at the stock market is profits. And when businesses are profitable, you know, the stock market will realize.
But you know, if I knew the answer to that question, what is going to happen to the stock market over the next few months I probably wouldn't be doing this show and I would be in an island in the Caribbean or something. CABRERA: But I want to get -- let me just have you hold your thought
for a second because I want to get in this important question. I think a lot of people at home are saying, OK, well that's all great. Profits are up. The stock market's going up. But when are my wages going to go up?
Well, let me just take a swing about it. I think first of all, wages have seen a little bit of a gain in the last couple of months and that's good. I think for most Americans right now, they are not so concerned about jobs because jobs are pretty plentiful right now. They want the good jobs back.
I mean, if -- there are a lot of jobs to working at Walmart or Burger King or McDonald's right now, but it's the, you know, higher paying, middle-class jobs and that's going to require I think, if you cut taxes for businesses and they can expand their operations that is something that can, I think, be very valuable to workers in terms of higher wages.
[19:45:06] CABRERA: Ken, give me your 20-second take on that.
ROGOFF: Maybe, but I think you know globalization, automation, artificial intelligence can put this relentless downward push on wages so I'm not sure that just having a corporate tax cuts is going to affect that.
CABRERA: All right. Stephen Moore and Ken Rogoff, thank you both for weighing in. We appreciate it as always.
Coming up, Waco, Oklahoma City, the Unabomber. What sparked the homegrown terrorism and that rocked America in the 1990s and was there a connection? A look back at the decade that brought terror to our doorstep.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
[19:49:53] CABRERA: From the Unabomber to the Oklahoma City bombing, the last decade of the 20th century was riddled with domestic terrorist threats. And that's the focus of tonight's new episode of the "Nineties, terrorist hits home." Here's a preview.
[19:50:06] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was one place that officials decided people should be able to go and not have to worry about check points. And that was centennial Olympic park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1:25 this morning, thousands of revelers at an open air rock concert in Centennial Park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the sudden I felt a big boom, a blast, he came and then it knocked me off the wall. Blew my pants off here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody gets to move up the street. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities said the device appeared to be a pipe
bomb loaded with nails and screws designed to penetrate human flesh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than 100 people injured, two are dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before this device explodes, security guard Richard jewel notices this backpack alerts a law enforcement officer and they begin to evacuate the area. If not for his quick thinking, there probably would have been many more casualties.
CABRERA: And the fear of that time.
CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem is with us now. She is part of the episode tonight.
You heard that clip there from the Centennial Olympic park bombing. And of course, what's really interesting about that is when you think about where we are today and how security is ramped up everywhere, you didn't even have to check backpacks at the Olympics that year, right?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's exactly right. And the Olympic village where there were events, there was security. Right next door where there's a big party in Centennial Park, there's no security. That's when originally they thought it was Richard Jewel. But it ends up bring Eric Rudolph dumps a bag. I mean, it's -- you can't believe -- you had the congregations of people and there was no security bags or anything checked.
CABRERA: And it that the event that really changed everything?
KAYYEM: It did. I mean, obviously -- really what's amazing about the documentary is that it's sort of a steady drum beat to obviously 9/11, even though there's a focus on domestic terrorism towards the end of the decade, you also start to see the rise of Al-Qaeda. You have the original world trade center bombing. But then of course, bin Laden with the Africa embassy bombings. And so the irony of the '90s when it comes to these asymmetric threat both domestic and then of course international is the cold war was over. And we won, right? And so everyone is thinking, peace will reign, right. And then you will see --
CABRERA: False sense of security.
KAYYEM: Right. The steady drum beat. And on the domestic terrorism side, of course, what's animating all of them is antifederal government animist and the Oklahoma City bombing being the most significant and Tim McVeigh access to weapons. And also wanting to play to the media. I think that's the lesson of columbine, the school shooter that shocked the world, but also the sense that there was this sort of hero aspect to what they thought they were doing.
CABRERA: Do you see a difference in how America approaches domestic terrorism today compared to the '90s? KAYYEM: Absolutely. So because I think 9/11 made us think that
terrorism was only Islamic terrorism. And I think, you know, all of us are guilty of that, you know, that -- and what we saw in the '90s was the biggest threat in the United States then and now, it's hard for us to fathom. And now is white supremacists or anti-government terrorism targeting individuals and/or institutions or government buildings. And we tend to think of terrorism openly as relates to Al- Qaeda or ISIS and it's just not true. United states has been as suffered from domestic terrorism and that, and the number of cases that we go through in the documentary that's airing at 9:00, very soon you sort of overwhelmed by how many they were, right? You have Waco and Oklahoma City and Ruby Ridge --
CABRERA: Blasts from the pasts. It is amazing how far we have come and we have endure.
Juliette Kayyem, we look forward to the episode. Thank you so much for coming on giving us that preview, giving us your insight.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
Don't miss the brand new episode of "the Nineties" tonight at 9:00 eastern and pacific only here on CNN.
[19:58:01] CABRERA: A tornado touched down in Midtown, Tulsa overnight leaving a line of destruction in its path. Take a look at this drone video showing just how much damage was done to the high rise building here. The national weather service says it was an EF-2 tornado. It tore through Tulsa just after 1:00 this morning. Thousands of people lost power, buildings were very damaged, vehicles were just tossed around like toys. Fortunately, there were no fatalities. But a local hospital does report about 25 people were treated for just minor storm-related injuries.
Now California town is literally going to pot. That is if the new owner has his way. Marijuana technology and growing firm American green incorporated has purchased the town of Nifton for about $5 million. And the company said that plans to make Nifton the country's first energy independent cannabis-friendly hospitality destination.
Now future visitors will find lodging, mineral baths, and of course marijuana edibles for the conscious cannabis consumer they say.
And we are now hearing from the man who beat Usain Bolt in his last polo race before retirement.
American Justin Gatlin spoke to our colleague Fredricka Whitfield this afternoon after clenching the gold medal at the championships. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN GATLIN, OLYMPIC AND WORLD CHAMPION SPRINTER: My coaches say run my race pattern and the real race is going to be the second half of the race ten worked like clockwork. I just turned on the jets and tried to get to the finish line as fast as I can.
I have the utmost respect for Usain. And you know, he has pushed me and inspired me throughout the years you know to be a better runner and to be a better man. You know, the losses that I have had that have been lessons that makes me better off the track and off a way. We know each other. We have the outmost respect for each other. We laugh. We joke in the more barrier. And that's just what we have, you know. And we know that we both true competitors and we leave it on the track.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Love that. What a humble guy. And incredible feat really. Gatlin here finishing the 100 meter race in 9.92 seconds beating Usain Bolt by less than half a second and forcing the world's fastest man, an eight-time Olympic gold medalist to settle for bronze.
I'm Ana Cabrera. Thanks for being with us. Good night.