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North Korea and U.S. Watching Each Other; Trump's Receives Criticism from Both Sides; Heavy Rain Buried People to Mud in Sierra Leone's Capital; Kim Jong-un Will Watch Foolish Conduct Of The Yankees; Trump's Words On North Korea Are Dangerous; Trump Criticized As Too Slow To Disavow Hate Groups; Protesters In North Carolina Topple Confederate Strike; Celebrating Independence; Scaramucci: Trump Aide Bannon A White House Leaker. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired August 15, 2017 - 03:00   ET



[03:00:00] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. and North Korea are now taking a wait and see approach. Kim Jong-un says he's watching the Yankees while the U.S. defense secretary says it's game on if Pyongyang attacks.

Plus, Donald Trump's delayed reaction to Charlottesville after being criticized for not denouncing hate groups quickly enough that president once again blames the media.

And celebration and reflection in India as the nation marks its 70th year of independence from colonial rule.

Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around world, it's 3.30 p.m. in Pyongyang, North Korea, 5 p.m. in Guam and 3 a.m. in Charlottesville. I'm Rosemary Church. This is CNN Newsroom.

South Korean leader Kim Jong-un appears to be walking back a bit at least from the brink of war. According to state run media Kim says he will, quote, "watch a little more the foolish and stupid conduct of the Yankees" before deciding whether to launch missiles into the sea near Guam, a U.S. territory.

Now this comes even as he personally reviewed the missile plans Tuesday.

Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe spoke with U.S. President Donald Trump by phone Monday on the crisis. And South Korea's president is vowing to do everything possible to prevent war on the peninsula.

But U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis earlier warned its game on if North Korea attacks.

While our correspondents are all over the region, Paula Hancocks joins us from Seoul, South Korea, and Ivan Watson is in Guam, also with us now Erin McLaughlin in Tokyo, and David McKenzie in Hong Kong. Welcome to all of you.

So, Paula, let's start with you. Is Kim Jong-un pulling back from the brink, and if so, for how long?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there is a sense, Rosemary that that been a bit of breather in the tensions we've been seeing here, not just what happened this Tuesday, but also what we saw on Monday with the op-ed from the secretary of defense and secretary of state in the U.S. saying that diplomacy and economic measures are first and that's the priority.

And then you have the Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Dunford here in Seoul Monday evening saying nobody wants war. And then you have this from Kim Jong-un today. Not saying that he has abandoned his plans but say that he has looked at the assessments of firing those four missiles into the waters of Guam.

And that is what he had originally said he would do, that there would be plans drawn up. So that does appear to be somewhat of a pullback really from both sides, so certainly somewhat of a breather.

But he has said that he's going to wait and see what the Americans do. And I think what he's referring to there is the military drills that the U.S. and South Korea are going to have next week, August 21st for 10 days. They happen every year. The U.S. says their defensive in nature that just necessary to make sure that they have readiness for any eventually but it's simply not the way North Korea see them. And see them as provocative.

So, we could see a different scenario next week, but at this point there appears to be somewhat of lull. And also that the South Korean President, Moon Jae-in on liberation day here, the day that the North and South Koreans were liberated from Japanese occupation the day both sides are united in celebrating. And he said he would do everything in his power to make sure there is no second Korean War.


MOON JAE-IN, PRESIDENT OF SOUTH KOREA (through translator): We urge North Korea to stop worsening the situation immediately stop provocations and threatening behavior. There must be no more war on the Korean Peninsula. Whatever ups and down we face the North Korean nuclear situation must be resolve peacefully.

I am certain the United States will respond to the current situation calmly and responsibly in a stance that is equal to ours.


HANCOCKS: So, we've been hearing from Mr. Moon saying that the U.S. and South Korea are on the same page. We did hear though the South Korean president saying that he believe that a freeze in North Korea's nuclear missile program would be beneficial whereas, the U.S. at this point their stance is still they want complete denuclearization. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Many thanks to our Paula Hancocks joining us there from Seoul in South Korea. Ivan Watson, I want to turn to you now. What's been the reaction in Guam to this apparent briefing on the part of Kim Jong-un of any strike on Guam at this time at least?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At a press conference today, the lieutenant governor of Guam, Rosemary, he interpreted this as a positive sign of a de-escalation of the war of words that's been ranging between Pyongyang and Washington since last week.

[03:05:04] And since that day, the civilian authorities here have repeatedly said that the threat level to this island has not changed in the least bit. And that's a -- that's a sentiment that been echoed by the military here as well. The spokesperson for the Andersen Air Force Base here, she says that there's been no move to evacuate any of the relatives of the more than 5,000 military personnel on this island.

And that number goes up to more than 13,000 dependents and military personnel on this island. That said, there is concern, of course, no sense of panic but concern and those that concern maybe escalated for some people shortly after midnight when a message went out, an emergency warning message went out on local television.

Now, the authorities since said that that was essentially a mistake. Human error, it was an unauthorized test message and the reason that it created alarm for some viewers was that there was no subsequent like hey, this is a test, no explanations for why that went out.

So that gives you a sense that some people are on edge and watching closely to see what will happen. But there is also, you know, some humor that has come with this situation.

I remember a couple of days ago hearing a radio D.J. taking a dig here at some big companies that don't deliver to the island. Saying, quote, "Hey, Apple target Ikea, if North Korea is willing to deliver to Guam why can't you?" Basically, playing to the fact that this far-flung American island isn't, doesn't get the same service from big American companies that the rest of the mainland U.S. gets.

So that gives you a sense of kind of the differing opinions here in response to this very whole strange week that Guam has had being in the eye of this geopolitical storm between Washington and Pyongyang. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes, certainly getting a lot of attention now, isn't it? Ivan Watson reporting there from Guam, just after 5 in the early evening.

Erin, you're in Tokyo, Japan, a country of course that has been watching the tension build between North Korea and the United States for a while now, worried of course about how it will be affected by any outcome. What's being said there about this latest response from Kim Jong-un?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, so far we have yet to hear Japanese officials comment directly on this latest response from North Korea. I was at a press briefing at the foreign minister here in Tokyo just a short while ago, diplomats ask specifically about that. They decline to comment other than to say that they believe that the North Korean threat has moved into a new phase.

Also to say that they will not be engaging in dialogue with North Korea as long as the provocations continue. So, in other words, Japan's position in all of this really has not changed. North Korea was the topic of conversation between President Trump and the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in a phone conversation that took place earlier today. It lasted some 30 minutes.

Prime Minister Abe briefing reporters out of that conversation saying that both he and President Trump agree that right now the most important thing is to prevent a missile launch on Guam.

Take a listen to what he had to say.


SHINZO ABE, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The North Korean announcement that it will send ballistic missiles towards Guam has raised tensions in the region to levels unseen before. Amid all this I highly value President Trump's commitment to the security of its allies.

Through a firm partnership between Japan and the U.S. and with cooperation from China, Russia, and the international community we agreed that our priority was to work to ensure North Koreans doesn't launch more missile.

We will also do our utmost to protect the lives of the people whatever the situation based on our strong U.S.-Japanese alliance and with a high level alert monitoring and missile defense system.


MCLAUGHLIN: And speaking of that U.S./Japanese alliance later this week, the Japanese defense and foreign ministers will fly to D.C. to meet with their U.S. counterparts to focus on strengthening that alliance, a deterrence and response being the focus of these talks expected later this week, Rosemary.

All right. Erin McLaughlin joining us there from Tokyo just after 4 p.m. in the afternoon. Many thanks to you. I want to go to David McKenzie now in Hong Kong. So, David, China is saying it will comply with the sanctions against North Korea agreed to by the U.N. Security Council.

But now President Trump is threatening to launch a probe into China's trade practices. What impact might that have on expectation that China would help rein in Kin Jong-un.

[03:10:00] DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a very interesting question. It depends who you talk to, Rosemary. Certainly, President Trump touting his latest move to get tough on China as he puts it saying this was a key campaign promise that he is fulfilling.

And what he is doing is saying that he is trade representative should investigate the possibility of formal investigations into amongst other things intellectual property rights within China.

Now it's not as harsh as many people sort of would be say even a week ago. And it appears that the U.S. administration is taking a long term approach to this. The actual probe could take as long as a year, say experts, so nothing is going to happen in the immediate future.

The Chinese, particularly through state media, Rosemary, criticizing the move saying today they're expressing a grave concern of the commerce ministry in China. And it does complicate the issue when you look at the fact that President Trump has wanted China to be the main pressure point on North Korea through trade.

So it does appear to be somewhat more cautious approach by the U.S. administration on China trade issues despite the fact that for years U.S. companies operating in China have complained about this issue to me and to many others openly and in private. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right. Many thanks to that live report from our David McKenzie in Hong Kong just after 3 in the afternoon.

Well, now to the do over for Donald Trump. The U.S. president made a second effort Monday to condemn white supremacist and neo-Nazis who took part in the deadly process in Charlottesville Virginia this past weekend.

The president is in New York right now where protesters lined the streets outside Trump Tower. Many say his initial response to the violence in Virginia was not strong enough.

CNN's Jim Acosta has more on that.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: After two days of stinging criticism for his failure to call out hate groups by name President Trump finally did just that in a scripted statement at the White House.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

ACOSTA: On Saturday, the president ignited his own fire and fury when he appear to blame both the white supremacist and the counter protesters with the unrest that left one woman dead.

TRUMP: We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sites, on many sites.

ACOSTA: When ask why it took him so long the president got testy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, can you explain why you did not condemn those hate groups by name over the weekend?

TRUM: They've been condemned. They have been condemned. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why are we not having a press conference. You

said on Friday you'll have a press conference.

TRUMP: We had a press conference. We just had a press conference.

ACOSTA: Mr. Trump did not hold a news conference despite promising one last Friday that that was when he was beating his chest over North Korea.

TRUMP: We have a very important meeting schedule and we're going to have a pretty big press conference on Monday.

ACOSTA: The president's initial reluctance to condemn the hate groups prompted a backlash from inside his own party. And Colorado's Senator Cory Gardner.

SEN. CORY GARDNER, (R) COLORADO: And this isn't a time for innuendo or to allow room to be read between the lines. This is a time to lay blame. To lay blame on bigotry and to lay blame on white supremacist on white nationalism and on hatred.

ACOSTA: To Utah's Oren Hatch who tweeted, "My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home."

Top administration officials were scrambling to come up with answers. Attorney General Jeff Sessions was pressed on why an anonymous White House official was slamming the Nazis in the statement of the meeting on Sunday when Mr. wasn't.

JEFF SESSIONS, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: The president did do that yesterday, his spokesman said...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn't the president. It's not the same as the president have been managed to...

SESSIONS: And you're interrupting me. You asked me I was giving you an answer.

ACOSTA: And a member of the president's manufacturing council Merck Pharmaceutical CEO Ken Frazier resigns from that panel in protest saying, "I feel responsibility to take a stand against intolerance and extremism."

The president fired back on Twitter saying Frazier will quote, "have more time to lower rip-off drug prices."

On a trip to Columbia this weekend, it was Vice President Pence who condemn the white supremacist by name.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have no tolerance for hate and violence white supremacist, neo-Nazis or the KKK.

ACOSTA: But Pence also bristle that question about this president handling of the matter. PENCE: Many in the media spend an awful lot of time focusing on what the president said and criticisms of what the president's stand, instead of criticizing those who brought that hatred and violence to the street of Charlottesville, Virginia.

[03:15:05] ACOSTA: One other distinction to note during his remarks the president did not refer to the murder of Heather Heyer as an act of domestic terrorism, that's despite the fact that his own Attorney General Jeff sessions use that same term earlier in the day.

Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.


CHURCH: CNN senior political analyst David Gergen joins me now from Cambridge in Massachusetts. Thanks so much for being with us.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you, Rosemary. Good to be here.

CHURCH: So, I want to ask you this. Why, why do you think it was so difficult for President Trump to call out the alt-right in the aftermath of the deadly Charlottesville incident?

GERGEN: He sees reality differently than many other Americans do and that is he sees a reality -- reality to him says the people from the left and people who are trying to defend the race protection laws equal opportunity laws Martin Luther King Jr. that old tradition. Those people are wrong and they have been, from his point of view, have been aggressive and they've been lead to violence and that spurred the right to come out and so they are on equal moral play.

And people, a lot of people on the right think that is true, but frankly, the vast majority of Americans do not agree with that. They think that in fact the neo-Nazis and the white supremacist stir this up. They're full of hatred. They are trying to take us back to a white majority that dominates the country.

And there has been a lot of resistance. I don't think the president would have toughened up in his language and really stepped up finally in the last two hours had it not been for the enormous pressure that came on him from the public, from the media, from many minority groups. And he was -- he was on a tough body he had to move. He had to say something to try to bring peace in this political community.

CHURCH: And of course, as we saw it, it took him two days to do that, didn't it? President Trump then attack the media after criticism of his response to Charlottesville saying this in a tweet, "I made additional remarks on Charlottesville and realize once again that the fake news media will never be satisfied. Truly bad people."

Now David Gergen, on Saturday Mr. Trump blamed the violence on many sides and wasn't willing to name white supremacist and neo-Nazis.

GERGEN: Right.

CHURCH: So is his attack on the media fair given he was eventually forced to disavow these alt-right groups.

GERGEN: I think the president just simply this was an opportunity, one of his rare opportunity to have in politics when you address with moral clarity what the issues are and what the choices are and he had done that and said right from the beginning the neo-Nazis are evil. He would have been fine.

But by waiting and waiting and waiting and letting the pressure buildup so did it appear he only bow he only stepped up because he was under pressure because the politics have changed on him that it whip around was coming in from the other side, it appeared grudging to save it today. It appeared like he was inauthentic.

What appeared to be authentic were the tweets, the additional tweets he sent out this morning lashing out at a black chief executive from a company here of Merck, a pharmaceutical company, because he had stepped down from aboard the president created advisory board.

He lashed out and then personally denied this lash out at the beginning. He's an African-American CEO. We don't have many African- American CEO in big company. And here the president is lashing out, lashing out at CNN, lashing out what he call fake news once again, and you know, frankly, the impression that was created was the authentic Donald Trump is the man who tweets.

The one who read the statement today was really in a scripted statement and it wasn't clear that it came from his heart. It came -- it seem to come more from his advisors who said, Mr. President, you have to do this, you're in a corner.

CHURCH: And you mention that CEO, a second CEO has resigned from President Trump's manufacturing council...

GERGEN: yes.

CHURCH: ... for this was from Under Armour. When you look at that what sort of impact do you think of the loss of those two CEO's and this whole incident in Charlottesville, what impact will this likely have on the Trump administration going forward do you think?

GERGEN: I think it's going to put pressure and some of these other corporations, I mentioned some to Richard Quest is going to be following up on to figure out how many other CEOs are going to step down before this is over. And I also think it's going to have ripple effects within the Republican Party.

[03:19:57] There are already republican senators, Oren Hatch of Utah a very strong conservative who broke with the president over the question of Charlottesville and the violence there. And I think there be coming other republicans who would break away. Just at the very moment when the president is extremely anxious to get more some of his agenda passing a tax reform could be putting greater jeopardy today than it was 40 hours ago.

I don't want to reduce the violence and the questions of right and wrong to economic terms. But if you look at the politics of it the fact is the politics are going to get rougher for the president. The next few weeks maybe very rough for his presidency.

CHURCH: And we will all be watching very closely.

GERGEN: yes, we are.

CHURCH: David Gergen, always a pleasure to have you on the show. Many thanks.

GERGEN: Thank you, Rosemary. It's good to talk to you.

CHURCH: And it's worth noting, a third CEO has also decided to leave President Trump's manufacturing council. Intel's Brian Krzanich says and I'm quoting here. "I resign because I want to make progress while many in Washington seem more concerned with attacking anyone who disagrees with them. We should honor not attack those who have stood up for equality and other cherished American values. I hope this will change and I remain willing to serve when it does."

Well, a bit later we will take a closer look at why President Trump has waited so long to disavow hate groups. It's a criticism he face in his presidential campaign as well.

Hundreds are dead and hundreds more missing after massive mud slides in Sierra Leone. We'll have the details for you in a live report.


CHURCH: The streets of Sierra Leone's capital are now muddy rivers after heavy rains triggered massive mudslides. The Red Cross says more than 200 people are dead and hundreds more missing. They expect the death toll to rise as crews continue search and rescue efforts.

This years' rainy season brought three times the average amount of rain.

Well, CNN's Farai Sevenzo joins us now from Nairobi, Kenya with more on this. So, Farai, tragically of course that these floods triggered mudslides killing hundreds of people near the capital Freetown, many of them possibly asleep at the time. What more are you learning about the casualties and also search rescue and recovery efforts.

FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Rosemary. At Mt. Sugarloaf sits above three time here. When you go there you'll be struck by how old the houses are built in sort of a terrain that goes uphill and it's the beautiful sight in the sunshine.

But because of the torrential rains that Sierra Leone has been having this; the Mt. Sugarloaf simply gave way and carried all this earth early on Monday morning when people would have been asleep.

[03:25:02] At the moment, Abu Bakar Tarawallie (Ph) the communications guy for the Red Cross in Freetown is telling that they have now recovered more than 300 bodies. And it is a fact as well that many of these bodies were dragged down for more than a mile.

So the rescue efforts are recovering not just bodies but limbs of people and awful, I'm sorry, so early in the morning, but decapitated people. And the rescue effort is hampered by the lack of equipment.

I spoke to red Cross last night they said they've got only two diggers to tried and excavate the poured in villagers. And don't forget the rain is still falling. So even if you are trying to dig people out the mud will simply suck you down like quicksand.

So at the moment it's very, very important that they get as much help as they can. And we are also learning that the city of Foh which is Sierra Leone second city has also had heavy rain overnight, but luckily for that city it lies in the far more flat terrain, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes. They need so much help there, indeed. Farai Sevenzo, thank you so much for that live report an update on the situation on the ground.

Let's go now to our meteorologist Pedram Javaheri, he joins us from the international weather center. And Pedram, of course, the rainy season is there in Sierra Leone, although so much more rain than usual but what role might deforestation play in these tragic months lies do you think.

PEDRAM JAVAHERI,AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. I think it's pretty significant role here. We see this across many cities around the world and just the sheer volume of trees that have been cleared in the past 100 years that we'll touch on momentarily, really I think plays a role. And then you add significant and historic amount of water on top of that's, it is a recipe for disaster.

These sad things have played out, and I want to show the perspectives and as Rosemary touched on and you heard in the previous story before that as well, the climatological norms for this time of year the heart of wet season in Sierra Leone between the month of July and August. You see about 1500 or so millimeters.

If you're tune in this morning from London your average sits right around 550 millimeters in an entire year. So essentially three years of London rainfall in some two months' time is what is normal across portions of Sierra Leone. So that gives you a perspective of the incredible amount of water that we're talking about and this is because the wind in the southern hemisphere meet with the wind from the northern hemisphere.

The area they set up shop is the conveyor belts across this region where we typically see storms come through once every say three to four days for this time of year. And as they move over into the Atlantic Ocean eventually they become tropical waves. We have one right here that was actually what was once part of the storm that caused the disaster across portions of Sierra Leone.

This will be tropical storm Harvey. We have hurricane Gert right now sitting off shore that originated back off the coast of Africa, in fact 25 years ago today. Hurricane Andrew originated off the coast of Africa. That's where the storms are born, but of course the frequency of which they're here this time of year is very much at a very high level. And the perspective much this high when you think about deforestation

across parts of Western Africa. In fact, about 90 percent loss in the forest across this region from the year 1900 to present times, so you take that into account of course, and you think about another way to look at this, it could be 3-D perspective what we're talking about here.

You takes a very not necessary is just west of town bring forest terrain across this region and of course, you see not only hilly terrain but also a lot of vegetation. Ninety percent of this are now been removed. So you take this out of the mix, with that said, of course a lot of that water becomes free flowing water and anything that falls becomes runoff, if there's construction debris and there often is, if there is any sort of mining activity in this region there certainly is.

All of that, Rosemary runs down into Freetown and the drainage supply there and drainage system becomes very much confine and also clogged up so you get runoff that happens very quickly across this region, Rosie.

CHURCH: We thank you for that explanation. Pedram Javaheri, joining us there. Many thanks.

Well, coming up, North Korea moves a mobile launch, but there's also a signal that Kim Jong-un may not fire missiles toward Guam, at least not yet.

Plus, many were outrage by President Trump's s delay in announcing white supremacists by name after the Charlottesville attack. But it's not the first time his face such criticism.

We're back in a moment.


ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN HOST: And a very warm welcome back to all of our viewers joining us from around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. I want to update you now on the main stories were following this hour.


CHURCH: U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis says it's game on if North Korea tries to attack Guam or any other part of the United States.

But it looks like North Korea leader Kim Jong-un will hold also the decision to launch missiles for now at least according to state-run media. Kim says he will, quote, wash a little more the foolish and stupid conduct of the Yankees.

U.S. President Donald Trump condemned hate groups by name Monday, two days after the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

But many thinks his words came too late. The president called the KKK and neo-Nazis, and one supremacist repugnant, and said, anyone who acted criminally will be held fully accountable.

More than 200 people are dead and hundreds more are missing in Sierra Leone's capital after massive mudslides, the country has had three times the amount of rain they usually say during the season. The Red Cross expects the death toll to rise as first search for survivors.


CHURCH: I want to return now to our top story, the North Korean missile threat. While North Korean leader Kim Jong-un personally inspected plans to fly missiles toward the U.S. territory of Guam on Tuesday, he is also signaling the next move is up to the U.S. and its allies. More now from Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr.


BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: North Korea has moved at least one mobile launcher in recent days that could fire an intermediate range missile, CNN has learned.

The launcher movement could signal everything will be ready for potential missile launch in the next 48 hours if Kim Jong-un orders it according to several U.S. officials.

For the moment, the U.S. doesn't see signs however of an imminent launch of four missiles towards Guam as the regime has threatened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An attack from North Korea is not something that is imminent.

STARR: The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff traveling in South Korea making clear the U.S. is sticking to the plan for upcoming war games that will send more U.S. troops briefly to the Peninsula.

GEN. JOE DUNFORD, GENERAL, UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS: I will tell you that today when you look at the rhetoric coming out at North Korea, the exercises are more important than ever. There's a direct linkage between these exercises and our ability to effectively respond.

STARR: North Korea objecting to the exercises. The State-run News Agency says the drills cannot cover up the danger of a war outbreak, the Pentagon taking no options off the table.

JAMES MATTIS, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think that if they fire at the United States, it could escalate from war very quickly. Yes, that's Cold War if they -- if they shoot at us.

STARR: The chairman not ruling out future military action if needed.

DUNFORD: What we would do in the wake of the -- of an attack on Guam or missiles begin launched towards Guam is going to be a decision that it's going be made. But the president of the United States, he's going to make that in the context over alliance.

STARR: But there is a sense that Kim Jong-un is not willing to risk his very existence or his regime in a war with the U.S.

MIKE POMPEO, DIRECTOR, CIA: We have seen that he listens to clear communications.

[03:35:00] He understands that his primary goal of staying in power, keeping the regime intact.

STARR: One researcher says Kim's rapid development in his weapons programs may be due to North Korea acquiring advance rocket engine technology through a lifted Russian and Ukrainian channels.

MICHAEL ELLEMAN, EXPERT, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: It appears that the source engine from a foreign entity and they have successfully incorporated that engine into some missile bodies.

STARR: But Ukraine has pushed back issuing a statement accusing Russia of pushing false information saying in part, we believe that this anti-Ukrainian campaign was triggered by Russian secret services to cover their participation in the North Korean nuclear and missile programs.

But even with all of this, Defense Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson are emphasizing they hope for a diplomatic solution to the crisis. Barbara Starr, CNN the Pentagon.


CHURCH: CNN Political Analyst Julian Zelizer joins me now. He's also an historian and professor at Princeton University. Always great to have you on the show.


CHURCH: Now you write an article for about President Trump and the rhetoric he uses when it comes to North Korea and you said this, I do want to quote you if I can, when presidents use bluster in speaking about foreign policy over the results, it's absolutely disastrous.

We have either come to the brink of nuclear catastrophe or we have ended up in unnecessary military conflicts that cost lives and money for generations to come. This is why Trump's actions are so dangerous.

Now they, Julian, are powerful words indeed. What are the best examples that President Trump needs to hate from past presidents that might make him rethink his language and his game of brinkmanship that he plays?

ZELIZER: Well, one recent example was George W. Bush after 9/11 was crafting his policy to combat terrorism and you ratchet up the rhetoric about Iraq and eventually, that would lead us in 2003 and 2004 into a very costly and deadly war that had very little to do with the original attack. Another moment people often forget is Ronald Reagan. In the first

Reagan term, Reagan uses very bellicose language about the Soviet Union because of the evil empire and he really warns that it's not possible to negotiate with them.

And by 1983, there are serious fears in the U.S., in the Soviet Union that we are in the brink of a nuclear war. So there are many examples of residences whose bluster in his words have a very dangerous effect.

CHURCH: And of course your article goes on to explain a number of other examples. So why -- why do you think President Trump has not yet realized just how dangerous his off-the-cuff threats against North Korea are and of course the threat they pose to global peace?

ZELIZER: Well, sometimes, you know, presidents believe in the rhetoric and they use it and they use it for political effect. They use it for strategic affect.

Lyndon Johnson did this with Vietnam even when he knew the war was not necessarily essential to America's interest and spoke about it like it was.

A part of it was his machismo, part of it was believing with some advisors were saying and I think there's a little bit of that with President Trump.

Now with President Trump, I think the inexperience also comes into play. I am not convinced yet in a full sense of how words matter, particularly in foreign affairs.

CHURCH: Yes and as you point out in your article, President Lyndon Johnson realized in 1968 that negotiation was a better solution.

But by then of course, it was too late and the Vietnam War lingered on well into Richard Nixon's term in office. How likely is it that Mister Trump will tone down his bluster and language when it comes to North Korea and realize that the negotiation is the only way to solve this problem? Is there an adult in the room to offer that sage advice do you think?

ZELIZER: At this point, it's really doubtful, the adults who we speak of, who we tends to base some of the military officials in the administration like Secretary of Defense Mattis or even now Chief of Staff Kelly, they have not been able to constrain him.

A lot of his most bellicose language came after the president changed his Chief of Staff and he is clearly not listening to those voices, if that's what the voices are telling him.

At the same time, the president has not done much to the staff of the State Department which in the United States is where diplomacy takes place.

[03:40:00] So there's very little reason to believe that this is going to change and so it might really depend on other countries trying to calm down the situation. CHURCH: Yes and of course many other countries, really very concerned about where this is all going. And Julian Zelizer, thank you so much and everyone should read your article at It is a fascinating rate, many thanks.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

CHURCH: After Saturday's violence in Virginia, many people wanted President Trump to come out right away and forcefully denounce white supremacist by name.

It took him two days to do that and for some, that's not a big surprise because it was the same story throughout his presidential campaign as well. CNN's Brianna Keilar reports.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It takes a lot, too much even those in President Trumps own party argue for him to strongly criticize and disavow hate groups think David Duke.

They rally this weekend in Charlottesville and supported Trump's candidacy early on.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did he endorsed me or what's going on because you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists.

KEILAR: But Trump did know about David Duke. He spot him publicly about him in as early as 1991, shortly after Duke had an unsuccessful but surprisingly strong runs for governor of Louisiana.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the David Duke thing bother you? Fifty-five percent of the whites in Louisiana voted for him.

TRUMP: I hate seeing what he represents but I guess it just shows us a lot of hostility in this country.

KEILAR: In July of 2016, Trump tweeted this picture of Hillary Clinton against a background of dollar bills which originally came from a white supremacist message board.

Trump called the controversy a creation of the, quote, dishonest media even dismissing the images obvious use of the Star of David.

TRUMP: It's a star! And then actually it looks like a sheriff's star but I don't know.

KEILAR: Not long after he whether stating criticism from Clinton who charge that he embracing the so-called alt-right. An ideologically nebulous group link to white supremacy, anti-Semitism and anti- feminism and xenophobia.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Now of course, there's always been a paranoid fringe in our politics, a lot of it arising from racial resentment. But it's never had the nominee of a major party stoking it, encouraging it and giving it a national megaphone until now.

KEILAR: And she took particular aim at Trump for his years long obsession with President Obama's birth certificate.

TRUMP: Barack Obama should end this and he should provide the public with a birth certificate.

KEILAR: Trump took the fringe conspiracy theory that President Obama wasn't actually American mainstream and did not admit the truth until shortly before the election.

A rare condemnation by Trump of the alt-right came shortly after his election when the white nationalist organization, National Policy Institute condemned in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!

KEILAR: Pledging support to the president-elect with the Nazi salute and displaying racist imagery at their gathering. Trump finally told the New York Times, I don't want to energize the group and I disavow the group. Brianna Keilar, CNN Washington.


CHURCH: On the heels of the Charlottesville protest, we are seeing more opposition to confederate symbols throughout the United States and are of North Carolina on Monday, protesters took matters into their own hands.


CHURCH: Demonstrators pulled down a statue, as you see there, representing a confederate soldier outside the Old Durham County Courthouse. The monument was dedicated back in 1934.

North Carolinas governor tweeted this, the racism and deadly violence in Charlottesville is unacceptable. But there is a better way to remove these monuments.

Well USA Today reports there are at least 700 and possibly more than a thousand confederate monuments in 31 states, remembering generals and others who fought for the South during the Civil War.

And they stand in public parks, courthouse, squares and state capitals, the majority in the country south but some are also in the northern states that fought the confederacy. Still to come, marking the anniversary of independence, a closer look at and how the end of colonialism in India did not end the turmoil.


CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. India is celebrating 70 years of independence. Prime Minister Narendra Modi unfold the national flag and addressed the nation from the ramparts of the red forth.

But the end of British colonial rule and the creation of Pakistan brought more ethnic tension. Millions of people migrated based on their faith and at least 1 million died in fighting between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims.

For more on this, were joined by Mallika Kapur in Amritsar in India and Sophia Saifi in Islamabad Pakistan. Good to see you both.

So, Mallika, to you first, 70 years since India won independence from the British but this is anniversary also comes some very painful memories, how Indians marking this day?

MALLIKA KAPUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's interesting there is a slight shift in generations for the people who live through partition or have heard from their fathers and grandfathers about what -- to what it involves about the horrors of partition.

The memories are really painful and for these kind of families, what happened in 1947 evokes some very, very painful memories of lives lost and families divided.


KAPUR: This is the story off two sweet shops. One is in Delhi, India. It's to run by Alauddin. The other in Lahore, Pakistan is run by his cousin, Misbauddine. That is one of the many families divided by the India-Pakistan partition in 1947. Tell me what is the name of your shop mean.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language)

KAPUR: How so sweet.


KAPUR: And in Lahore?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language)

KAPUR: It's the same name in Lahore and in Deli?


KAPUR: Alauddin and Misbauddine's fathers were brothers. They live here in their family home in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood in Delhi.

In 1947, when India gain independence from British rule, the country was rocked by communal violence between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through a translator): One of my uncles went to buy groceries one day, Alauddin tells me. He slaughtered. We never got his body back. Another uncle worried for his safety, pledge to newly created Pakistan where most Muslims migrated to after the partition of India.

KAPUR: A few years later, he returned to Delhi and join the family business. But word got around, a Pakistani man had come to India. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through a translator): Around 25 people stormed to

sweetshop. They pulled my uncle out and marched him to the water.

KAPUR: They forced him back to Pakistan, Alaudin says. The family has been between two countries since then. Alaudin last visited his cousin in Pakistan over 20 years ago.

He talks to Misbauddine on the phone occasionally. They don't have access to Facetime of Skype. So we offered to send a message to Misbauddine's family by recording it on my phone.

[03:50:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through a translator): How are you? Come and visit, they say.

KAPUR: CNN's Pakistan team travels to Lahore to show Misbauddine the video. His family is delighted. The children say, take us to India.

We forgotten everyone. We don't even know our family anymore. The message from India reminds Misbauddine of his father and uncle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through a translator): Slowly, slowly people fade away. Only the memories remain. For this generation, even the memories are few.


KAPUR: Alauddin says his niece is getting married in Pakistan in November this year and he really wants to go. He wants to take his family and go but of course, that will depend on whether he get's a visa or not, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Incredible report there from Mallika Kapur. Let's go now Sophia in Pakistan in Islamabad in fact and Pakistan marked the 70th anniversary a day before India hounded people there, mark this day.

SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN JOURNALIST: Well, Rosemary, there was a lot of fun and splendor at such a massive anniversary would entail. There were flag rising ceremony as the skies were lit up with fireworks and balloons, and you know, there was an air show by the Pakistani Airforce.

But there was also a time of reflection. We saw this time around that a lot of people who haven't spoken out about what that experienced in the bloody partition that took place in 1947 with any of their family members as well.

So you see a lot of -- all of the older generation actually coming out and sharing a lot of graphic details, a lot of (Inaudible) details of what they had left behind with them mentally along with physical stop that they left behind across the border.

And repressed it for many, many years, which is now coming forward and being shared with the generations that have only seem Pakistan.

I've only heard stories of the lost houses and homes that were left behind in the other side of the Pakistani in their border. Rosemary. CHURCH: And Sophia, you know, as we were -- as we were talking these and both of you this was very difficult times for both sides of that border but, Sophia, talk to us a little bit more about some of the memories people have of that time, 70 years ago.

SAIFI: Rosemary, we spoke to a few people -- quite a few people here in Islamabad itself. We spoke to who when he was 60-years-old in 1947, his mother was held to death while she held him in his arms.

And he was soaked on her blood and was lost in a refugee camp. And his father found him and brought him to the city of the heart.

And what's really powerful is that he experienced something so traumatic, that he served Pakistan, he worked as a diplomat and when you ask him, what kind of relationship that should Pakistan have with India.

We have a fussy relationship with our eastern neighbor but he said that it's -- it's necessary that there should dialogue and there should be a normalization of relations between the countries.

And I think that's very powerful and poignant, that despite whatever they've been through, all of the survivors want a normalization of relations.

CHURCH: Indeed. Sophia Saifi and Mallika Kapur, thank you both of you for you live reports. Appreciate it. Well, fired White House communications director, Anthony Scaramucci says he might know who's behind the notorious White House leaks.

Plus, how he feels about being fired after only 10 days on the job. Quit thinking White House aides kept the backdrop clear for the president's statement on Monday. We'll show you how they saved him from looking like a cheer president. That's next.


CHURCH: Well, welcome back everyone. We'll if you've ever visited London, you will know this sound.




CHURCH: And that if the famous Big Ben Chimes. They have been going for more than 150 years. But coming next Monday, you won't be hearing them.

They will were full silence for four years so major conservation work can take place on the tower. Those repairs are expected to cost about $40 million.

The fired White House communications director is not holding back. Anthony Scaramucci appeared on the late show with Stephen Colbert and suggested President Trump's Chief Strategist Steve Bannon has been behind White House leaks. Scaramucci was also asked how he feels about being fired after just 10 days on the job.


ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: When you take a job like that Stephen, you know that your expiration day is coming.

I didn't think I was going to last too long but I though I'd last longer than like a quart of milk. At the end of the day, you got to accept what your fate is and you got to do without any bitterness and you have to stay humble.


CHURCH: Stay humble. Thanks for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Remember to connect with me anytime on Twitter. The news continues next with Hannah Vaughan Jones in London. You're watching CNN. Have yourself a great day.