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U.N. Holds Emergency Meeting; Nurse Arrested for Refusing Officer's Orders; Obama's Letter to Trump. Aired 8:30-9:00a ET
Aired September 4, 2017 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00] AMBASSADOR KORO BESSHO, JAPANESE AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: North Korea and told them to stop this kind of policy. Now --
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It didn't seem to work.
BESSHO: Well, it was a policy statement from the Security Council, which should be loud and clear.
Now, we've been having lots of sanctions imposed on them. We feel that there's a way to go -- long way to go, I mean, before we can actually stop them finally.
Sanctions, yes, we have had some of them. Most recent one was just this -- in early August. So they haven't been fully implemented. So we need a little time. And we think that we need stronger pressure, maximum pressure, in order for North Korea to change its policy.
CAMEROTA: By way of sanctions?
CAMEROTA: You think stronger sanctions for more things? Food? Fuel? I mean are you adding things to the list?
BESSHO: Well, I think that is a basic -- basic idea.
DAVID BRIGGS, CNN ANCHOR: Is there a military option that Japan can support?
BESSHO: Well, Japan itself has not talked about military options. We've talked about, you know, going through the international community, that is the Security Council. But we do appreciate the fact that the U.S. administration, President Trump, has talked about every option being on the table. The alliance between Japan and the United States is very important for Japan and we really appreciate the fact that the United States is right behind us.
CAMEROTA: We're hearing that we have breaking news right now that North Korean state media is reporting that there is -- that the North has issued a series of new threats to the U.S. and Guam. This is in articles that have just been published by -- on the state news agency. In other words, Secretary Mattis here you heard come out and say if the North were to threaten, were to make threats against Guam or the U.S., we would, obviously, be able to act very strongly, militaristically -- militarily. He said, I'm not talking about the annihilation of a total country, but, obviously, we would be capable of something like that.
So, here you go. They respond by making threats to Guam and the U.S. What should leaders -- I mean, what should the leader of Japan, the U.S., South Korea, should they all get together, all these presidents and prime ministers, and decide today how, as a triberant (ph), they can react to this?
BESSHO: Well, I think you may know that the president and the prime minister of Japan have been talking on the phone. They spoke twice on the phone yesterday. There is a very close coordination.
We do feel that North Korea is coming to a situation where they need to be stopped now. I mean we can't have any more wasted time. So we really have to have very strong sanctions, which can pressure them, make them feel that if they go down this road there is going to be consequences. And, of course, we need to have our OK on the -- on board as well. We are discussing with them very closely lots of telephone conversations. But we need to have China and Russia on board as well.
BRIGGS: Let's talk about China. Are they doing enough? What more can be done?
BESSHO: Well, they have done a lot. I think in the response to recent sanction resolutions, they have done a lot. But, of course, these --
BRIGGS: Have they done enough?
BRIGGS: Have they done enough?
BESSHO: Well, I think it's not just question of China. I think it's a question of the United Nations giving enough mandate to all these countries, you know, all of the countries in the world to do a lot. But China is most important because they account for 90 percent of the trade with North Korea. So we hope that they will actually implement what has been decided on very recently. And I'm sure they can make a lot of difference.
CAMEROTA: Ambassador Bessho, we'll be watching very closely what happens at this emergency meeting today. Thanks for taking time to come and see us beforehand.
BESSHO: Thank you very much. Thank you.
BRIGGS: Appreciate it. Thanks.
CAMEROTA: So this video has gone viral. It's the Utah nurse who was arrested, she says, just for doing her job. She is here to tell us her side of the story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:37:26] CAMEROTA: A confrontation between Salt Lake City police officers and a nurse has been caught on camera. And, back in July, two officers went to University of Utah hospital to get a blood sample from an unconscious patient involved in a deadly car accident. That's when nurse Alex Wubbels explained that she could not allow that based on the hospital's policy. Look at what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX WUBBELS, NURSE, BURN UNIT AT UNIV. OF UTAH HOSPITAL: This is something that you guys agreed to with this hospital. The three things that allow us to do that are if you have an electronic warrant, patient consent or patient under arrest. And neither of those things -- the patient can't consent. He's told me repeatedly that he doesn't have a warrant, and the patient is not under arrest. So I'm just trying to do the -- what I'm supposed to do. That's -- that's all. So --
OFFICER PAYNE: OK. So I take it without those in place, I'm not going to get blood? Is that -- am -- am I fair to surmise that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK, Nurse Wubbels had an administrator on the phone to further explain, and this happened moments later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUPERVISOR: Why are you blaming the messenger, sir?
OFFICER PAYNE: She's the one that has told me no.
SUPERVISOR: Yes, but, sir, you're making a huge mistake right now. I -- I -- you're making a huge mistake because you're threatening a nurse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK. Alex Wubbels joins us now, along with her attorney, Karra Porter.
Ladies, great to have you here.
ALEX WUBBELS, NURSE, BURN UNIT AT UNIV. OF UTAH HOSPITAL: Thank you.
KARRA PORTER, ATTORNEY FOR ALEX WUBBELS: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: But we're not even showing the most dramatic part of the video, which we're about to show, about what happened next. You said you couldn't do it because of policy. The officer wanted you to draw the patient's blood. He wasn't taking no for an answer. And then this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WUBBELS: (INAUDIBLE) Stop! Stop! Stop! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Alex, how did it get to that point?
WUBBELS: I have no idea. I am -- I can't -- I can't speak for Officer Payne. But what I can say is that I stood my ground. I stood for what was right, which was to protect the patient. As a nurse, any nurse, I think, would have done exactly what I did.
CAMEROTA: Did the officer explain -- you were arrested. Look, you're being handcuffed here on this video.
CAMEROTA: Did he explain why he was arresting and handcuffing you?
WUBBELS: Not to my knowledge. I just -- I knew that I was doing what I was -- what was right, what was offered to me by a policy that I trusted and I believed to be lawful.
CAMEROTA: So what was going through your head while all this was happening?
WUBBELS: I was scared to death. I was, obviously, very frightened. And I think since -- since this has happened, I've been able to sort of surmise that I've -- I really feel betrayed. I feel betrayed by the police officers. I feel betrayed by my university police and security.
[08:40:15] CAMEROTA: Why do you feel betrayed by your -- your hospital security?
WUBBELS: Because I called them. I went down into the emergency department to get help, to have someone protect me, because I felt unsafe from Officer Payne from the beginning.
CAMEROTA: And why is that? Why were you feeling immediately unsafe with him?
WUBBELS: He was aggressive from the beginning. As a nurse I'm -- it's my job to assess a situation, to assess a patient. And my assessment skills led me to believe that Officer Payne was already agitated. He had already stormed off in disapproval when I originally told him that he couldn't do this up on the unit itself.
CAMEROTA: What was he saying to you? I mean we've heard just bits and pieces of it. Was he saying something to you that crossed the line?
WUBBELS: Well, initially I had explained to him the three things, that unless the patient was under arrest, I needed to have an electronic warrant. And there was no family and the patient could not consent for himself. And I said, I'm sorry. And he said, you're not sorry, and got very upset. And that was sort of the -- the thing that triggered this guy's not -- this is not OK.
CAMEROTA: So when you called your own security -- hospital security, then how did they respond?
WUBBELS: By just standing there looking at their phones telling me that they couldn't protect me.
CAMEROTA: Karra, is there any legal grounds that this officer had for arresting Alex?
PORTER: None. He kept saying, you know, the patient, you know, has given implied consent, essentially just by driving in Utah. But the law that the officer purported to be relying on clearly didn't apply because the officer admitted that there was no probable cause. And the -- Utah's implied consent law specifically requires probable cause.
CAMEROTA: Was the backstory here that he -- that this was -- that he thought this was a drunk driving accident and he wanted to take the driver's blood to see if there was alcohol in it? Is that what this was about?
CAMEROTA: So what -- what -- why was he so determined to have this driver's blood?
WUBBELS: I'm not sure. I believe that his -- it's my understanding that his watch command also instigated some of this. And you can see the watch commander, Officer Tracy (ph), talking to me in the latter half of the video.
CAMEROTA: Saying what? I mean what's their rationale for this?
WUBBELS: They had none. They just said that they needed to take the blood and that there were civil remedies (ph) and, you know, if they were doing something illegal, it was like the fruit of the poisonous tree. And basically they were just -- once I realized it, I just thought, these guys don't have any -- they don't -- they are going to get what they want no matter what.
CAMEROTA: So this video that we're watching, this -- this is the officer's body cam, is that right?
CAMEROTA: And this all happened July 26th?
CAMEROTA: So more than a month ago?
CAMEROTA: So why now has it just been released?
WUBBELS: I feel pretty strongly in just having sort of a good, strong ability to stand up without emotion and I needed to afford myself some time to feel OK and to be able to talk pragmatically about the situation without the emotion. That I completely understand that the country at this point, since it's a national thing, that the country is still dealing with, that I have been able to have dealt with and I'm still dealing with.
CAMEROTA: In other words, you were able to get the body cam video?
CAMEROTA: You got your hands on it legally. You're allowed to have this?
CAMEROTA: And you waited until you felt that you were together enough to talk about it?
CAMEROTA: Why? What has this past month been like to you?
WUBBELS: It's been tough. I mean one of the other reasons we went forward was, we made sure that the body cam was available. We wanted to see what it was that was on there. We spoke with the Salt Lake City Police Department. Our initial meeting, the chief of police apologized to me personally and I accepted his apology.
PORTER: The deputy chief of police.
WUBBELS: Sorry, deputy chief of police. Thank you.
CAMEROTA: And what did he say to you?
WUBBELS: He just said that this should never have happened. And I agreed with that. And then we started making conversation about how to prevent this from ever happening again. Unlike a conversation we had a week later with the university police and university security, who, after about a 45-minute conversation, still had not apologized. And when I brought it up, continued to defend their officers. And I just didn't feel like that was appropriate.
CAMEROTA: Karra, what are her legal remedies, if any?
PORTER: Oh, she has a lot of legal remedies. But at this -- I mean, obviously, there's the possibility of a lawsuit, if that becomes necessary.
CAMEROTA: Against the officer?
PORTER: Well, against the city, the officers, the university police. You know, there are quite a few. I mean, down the road.
CAMEROTA: And when you say if it becomes necessary, what are you going to hinge that on? What are you waiting for?
PORTER: Well, I think we're going to give everyone involved an opportunity to do the right thing without having to be dragged into court to do it. [08:45:05] CAMEROTA: And what would the right thing look like, Alex?
WUBBELS: Well, right now, I'm trying to formulate that. But currently my mission is to reeducate. As officers and as health care workers, we have to work together on behalf of our citizens, our fellow -- our friends, our people -- the people that we live with. And if we are going to have that dialogue and we're going to be able to have that team work and camaraderie, we have to be able to come to the table and have appropriate dialogue.
CAMEROTA: And you are starting that today by speaking out about this and everything that we've seen.
WUBBELS: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Best of luck. Obviously, we'll follow your case very closely.
WUBBELS: Thank you very much.
CAMEROTA: Alex, thank you. Karra Porter, thank you very much for being here.
PORTER: Thank you.
WUBBELS: Thank you.
BRIGGS: Very compelling, Ali.
Up next, a CNN exclusive. Former President Obama's parting letter to President Trump revealed. Has Trump listened to President Obama's advice? What the note says, next.
BRIGGS: Now to a CNN exclusive. We're getting our first look at the letter former President Obama left for President Trump as he left the Oval Office in January. Former President Obama leaving several pieces of advice for his successor. Has President Trump listened? Let's first listen to what President Trump said about receiving that letter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oval Office and found this beautiful letter from President Obama. We will cherish that. We will keep that. And we won't even tell the press what's in that letter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRIGGS: All right, let's discuss all of this with CNN political commentators Jack Kingston and Bakari Sellers.
Good morning to you, gentlemen. JACK KINGSTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Good morning.
BRIGGS: Bakari, let's starts with you. And this letter hits on three different pieces of advice, which we'll drill down on in a moment. But it starts with congratulations. It ends by saying, know that we stand ready to help in any ways which we can.
Now, let's turn back the clock a little bit to Donald Trump's fuel, his rise in politics built on questioning Barack Obama's birthplace, his campaign based on wiping away his legacy. How difficult do you think this letter was to write, Bakari?
[08:50:07] SELLERS: I don't think it was difficult at all for the president -- the 44th president of the United States. What we saw during the transition process was a man who held the office in great esteem, in high esteem. And no matter who the president-elect was at the time, whether or not it was Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, he wanted to make sure that he was doing his job as an outgoing president.
And what we see is something that many of us miss. When you read the letter, you see someone who was very thoughtful, someone who was very deliberate, someone who set aside partisan politics and just upheld the fundamental tenets of our democracy and the office of the presidency.
And so I was very pleased. I will say this, that Barack Obama is a better man than I. Somebody who attacks your heritage that way and questions your birth, you then sit down and you shake his hand and you say you want to make sure that he can be the best possible president. So, my hat's off to the 44th president.
BRIGGS: And to the transition of power.
Jack, let's touch on these pieces of advice. First, talked about how they both had been blessed. It's up to us to do everything we can to build more ladders of success for every child and family that's willing to work hard. Second, touches on American leadership in this world and how it is indispensable. Perhaps noting at the isolationist talk of the campaign. And thirdly, Jack, we are just temporary occupants of the office. Warns the president to guard the transitions of rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties. Which, if any, of these pieces of advice has President Trump followed in office?
KINGSTON: Well, actually, I'm glad that he's not listening to Barack Obama's interpretation of rule of law because all I can think about is Lois Lerner and the IRS scandal. I think about them calling James Rosen (ph), the Fox reporter, a flight risk and surveilling him illegally. I think about Hillary Clinton's pay for play shenanigans at the State Department under Barack Obama. And I think of fast and furious. So if that's the rule of law under Barack Obama, I'm glad that President Trump is not listening to it. I think --
BRIGGS: Does firing the acting FBI director for not killing the Russia investigation fall under protecting the rule of law, Jack?
KINGSTON: Well, number one, the president can fire anybody at any time, as you know. And, number two, we don't know why he fired Comey, based on that speculation. We do know based on the Rosenstein letter why he fired him, because of his incompetence. And apparently now we know that he was lying under oath when he said he did not write the conclusion that Hillary Clinton was innocent before the investigation. We now have evidence that shows that he did not have -- something like 17 eyewitnesses had not been interviewed when he started drafting the letter saying that she was innocent. So --
BRIGGS: We know this, Bakari. We know that there was a letter that was not published from the president and Stephen Miller citing that they were firing James Comey because he would not publicly clear the president and say he was not under investigation. When I mentioned those three pieces of advice, rule of law is one. Separation of powers is another. And John McCain took to "The Washington Post" to warn the president, to tell him directly that senators do not work for him. Do you think he's following the advice laid out in this letter?
SELLERS: Well, I think you -- regardless of what Jack Kingston says or, you know, the talking points that many times we hear on Fox News, you know, the president was eight years scandal free. He --
KINGSTON: Scandal free? Fast and furious?
SELLERS: He and his entire -- He and his entire --
KINGSTON: IRS? Lois Lerner?
SELLERS: He and his entire family. And so what we're seeing now is, if we go to the heart of this letter --
KINGSTON: Eric Holder, contempt of Congress?
SELLERS: He just laid out some very -- some very practical -- he laid out some very practical guidelines that would guide not just a Republican president but a Democratic president as well and anybody in between.
The answer to your question is, I'm not sure that Donald Trump has read the letter. And if he has read the letter, it's apparent he hasn't taken that to heart.
BRIGGS: Well --
SELLERS: We've had eight months -- eight months where this White House has been consumed with scandal and palace intrigue. And what we -- this is exactly what we did not have under Barack Obama.
KINGSTON: We had a --
BRIGGS: Jack, hang on a second. I do have to say that CNN reporting suggests he shows this to several visitors to the Oval Office. Is very proud and cherishes this letter. I want to ask you about the first piece of advice, though. He says,
it's up to us to do everything we can to build more ladders of success for every child and family that's willing to work hard. It's been reported also by Politico that if President Trump kills the dreamers program, that that will be the one thing that gets President Obama to speak out against Trump on FaceBook and perhaps on Twitter. Was he talking in that first bit of advice about the dreamers act?
KINGSTON: I don't know, because when we talk about rule of law and separation of power, certainly that would mean that executive orders should not be necessary, that you should let the legislative branch come up with major changes in the law of immigration. As you know, there are nine attorneys general right now who are suing the Department of Justice because of the illegal dreamers act, the DACA deferrals that President Obama did. So if we're talking about rule of law that's -- you know, you've got to let the legislative branch do that -- do the law making.
[08:55:21] BRIGGS: A long way to go before they solve that dreamer's situation for those 800,000 here in this country.
Jack Kingston, Bakari Sellers, thank you both.
KINGSTON: Thanks, Dave.
SELLERS: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Well, Dave --
BRIGGS: We're about out of time, unbelievably.
But before we go, you know, I've read this terrific book. I need to get you sign my copy.
CAMEROTA: What's it called? Wait, you mean "Amanda Wakes Up"?
BRIGGS: But -- but you haven't signed my copy. I've read it. I've done my homework. I've searched for my story in there.
CAMEROTA: That -- oh, you may recognize a few characters.
BRIGGS: I recognize a little bit.
CAMEROTA: If anybody needs some Labor Day distraction today from all of the crazy news, feel free to read or pick up "Amanda Wakes Up," about a young --
BRIGGS: Sign it.
CAMEROTA: I'll sign it right now. Great to work with you. It only took five years.
BRIGGS: Great to be back.
CAMEROTA: CNN "NEWSROOM" with Poppy Harlow picks up after this very quick break. Have a great Labor Day. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow. John Berman has this morning off.
[08:59:54] We begin this hour with an emergency response to a global threat. This morning, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency tells CNN that North Korea's latest and biggest underground nuclear test represents, quote, a new dimension of threat with the whole world at risk.