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Questions Mount about Trump's Response to Puerto Rico; NFL Teams Show Solidarity Against Trump Remarks; Senate GOP Health Care Repeal Effort Collapses; NYT: At Least 6 White House Advisors Used Private E-mail Accounts. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 26, 2017 - 06:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration's response to Puerto Rico has been wholly insufficient.

[05:59:08] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump tweeting about Puerto Rico for the first time since Hurricane Maria made landfall.

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The federal response has been anything but slow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has been an unprecedented catastrophe.

MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think it's too much to ask to stand for our national anthem.

SANDERS: The president's not talking about race. The president's talking about pride in our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think we should be judged as un-American because we believe in equality.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: The Graham-Cassidy bill was not the answer.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: This is not repeal. This is a reshuffling of the money.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's OK to fall short for an idea you believe in.


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, September 26, 6 a.m. here in New York, and here is our starting line.

The unprecedented crisis in Puerto Rico. After nearly a week since that hurricane made landfall, the president is just now addressing it. The president tweeting, "The island is in deep trouble." But he appears to blame it on their fragile infrastructure and financial problems.

You have to remember, three and a half million Americans are on that island. They don't have power. The situation is getting worse. Food, water, fuel, all in very spare quantities.

So, despite a humanitarian crisis in Puerto Rico, Trump has saved his greatest urgency for NFL players kneeling during the national anthem. The president's feud playing out again Monday night on football in front of the entire country. You're seeing the Dallas Cowboys. They all kneel in a sign of solidarity before the anthem. Once the anthem played, they stood up.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now to health care. The Republicans' last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare collapses. This apparent defeat coming after Senator Susan Collins voiced her opposition. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell now must decide whether to admit defeat or move ahead with a vote that seems likely -- seems likely to fail.

So all of this as "The New York Times" reports that six current and former advisers to President Trump are using private e-mail accounts for government business. Hillary Clinton calls this revelation, quote, "the height of hypocrisy."

We have it all covered for you, so let's begin with CNN's Joe Johns. He is live at the White House.

Hi, Joe.


It is the first time the president has substantively addressed the situation in Puerto Rico since Hurricane Maria made landfall last Wednesday. In the process, the president raising eyebrows, because while he acknowledged the situation there, he also seemed to blame Puerto Rico's ongoing debt problems for the misfortune of the people.


JOHNS (voice-over): President Trump facing mounting criticism for his response to the crisis in Puerto Rico, tweeting Monday night that the U.S. territory is in deep trouble, pointing to the "broken infrastructure and massive debt" the island was dealing with prior to Hurricane Maria, before asserting that "the billions of dollars owed to Wall Street and the banks, sadly, must be dealt with."

RICARDO ROSSELLO, GOVERNOR OF PUERTO RICO: It's a recognition that this is an unprecedented situation, and we're going to need an unprecedented level of support with Congress.

JOHNS: The president's remarks come as Puerto Rico's governor warns they are on the brink of a humanitarian crisis, urging the Congress to pass legislation authorizing more aid after Maria knocked out power across the island. Residents growing in their desperation for basic necessities like food, water and fuel.

ROSSELLO: We want this bill to have the resources that would have been allocated to another state, because we're U.S. citizens.

JOHNS: The White House defending the government's response.

SANDERS: The federal response has been anything but slow. In fact, there's been an unprecedented push through of billions of dollars in federal assistance.

JOHNS: But the president has spent the last three days tweeting repeatedly about NFL players who kneel during the national anthem. Mr. Trump continuing to fan the flames on Twitter Monday night.

Sources tell CNN that the president appears pleased with the firestorm he's created, telling a private dinner of conservative leaders "It's really caught on. I said what millions of Americans were thinking."

Administration officials tell CNN that chief of staff John Kelly is not happy with the public feud, but the retired military general, who lost a son in the Afghanistan War, agrees with the president on the substance of the debate.

Meanwhile, NFL teams continue to show solidarity against President Trump's comments. The entire Dallas Cowboys' team and team owner, Jerry Jones, taking a knee before the anthem at last night's game, then standing arm in arm as the song was sung.

The president's remarks continuing to divide NFL fans and players.

LEBRON JAMES, CLEVELAND CAVALIERS PLAYER: Because the people run this country, not one individual, and damn sure not him.

DOUG BALDWIN, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS WIDE RECEIVER: There might be some implicit bias that our president just doesn't understand.

JOHNS: The White House press secretary rejecting this idea.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Is he trying to wage something of a culture war?

SANDERS: Not at all. The president is not talking about race. The president is talking about pride in our country.

JOHNS: Dodging questions about whether the president went too far, using vulgar terms, referring to players who kneel.

SANDERS: Look, this isn't about the president being against anyone, but this is about the president and millions of Americans being for something, being for honoring our flag.


JOHNS: The president is expected to get a briefing today from his homeland security adviser, Tom Bossert. Bossert is just back from Puerto Rico. Journalists are also expecting to get a chance to ask the president a question or two when he attends a news briefing with the president of Spain.

Chris and Alisyn, back to you.

CUOMO: All right, Joe.

As bizarre as it is that the president is dealing with what's going on with athletes at the same time we're dealing with Puerto Rico, we've got to start with the urgency.

Let's bring in our panel: CNN political analysts John Avlon and Abby Phillip; and reporter and editor at large for CNN Politics, Chris Cillizza.

[06:05:14] John, when you look at Puerto Rico, it has all of the ingredients of a catastrophe, OK? These are Americans there. They don't have the infrastructure. That's true. It's a fragile Caribbean place.

But does it seem unusual to you that the president of the United States, he jumped on Harvey. You know, Alisyn was down there, showing how the federal government wanted to put their arms around it. We saw what happened with Irma. Why the difference here?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, gee, Chris, I wonder. Look, I mean, the problem is, is that Texas, Florida not only contiguous United States, but states that voted for Donald Trump. There's not been a demonstrated concern about Puerto Rico at anything like the same degree. And it's partly because, unfortunately, I don't think these folks are Trump supporters, and they're not top of mind, even though he's in New York.

CUOMO: Just to be clear, I'm not talking about FEMA, just to be clear.

AVLON: No, no, no, no, no. FEMA is on the ground there.

CUOMO: Brock Long took a shot at the media, but you know, he has to please his bosses, as well. But they are there in earnest. It's a very difficult situation. But the president, I'm saying, he hasn't embraced it.

AVLON: The president gave a speech to the U.N. talking about sovereignty. These are Americans on that island. They are without power almost a week. The combined damage total may be more than Irma and Harvey combined. Everybody's suffering, but the president is tweeting more about the NFL and Hillary Clinton than he is about Puerto Rico. And when he is, half the time, he seems to be dissing the island's infrastructure.

It's not the presidential leadership we've come to expect. And part of the question we've got to confront is, is Maria Donald Trump's Katrina?

CAMEROTA: Abby, you know, yesterday when the president finally did tweet about Puerto Rico, he obviously focused more on their economic crisis and their failing infrastructure, which are true, but tone deaf. I mean, wildly tone deaf while 3.5 million Americans are in dire straits down there. And wasn't that what John Kelly was going to sort of crack down on,

you know, sort of making the message more palatable? Like, how do tweets like that, that are so, then, roundly criticized as being insensitive, how do those sneak out?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, clearly, John Kelly has not successfully cracked down on anything on the president's Twitter account for over a week now. I guess you could argue eight months now. I think, you know, the president is doing what he wants on social media and -- and revealing his true feelings about the situation.

You know, I agree with John. It's really astounding that, instead of a show of solidarity or sympathy for the people who are actually genuinely suffering right at this moment, the president spent, like, 2 1/2 tweets talking about -- about the failures of the Puerto Rican government and about the debt that is owed to Wall Street. That's really not anywhere near what -- what was happening at the federal level when it came to the other storms.

And I think the president maybe at this point has storm fatigue, but one of the challenges of leadership at this moment is that he has to kind of continue on. That when there are all of these natural disasters happening all at the same time, yes, he has to focus on all of them with the same degree of intensity.

It also doesn't help that, I think, over the weekend with this -- all this focus on the NFL, you know, you know, the president is feeling pretty combative right now, as you can see from his Twitter feed and from the comments that he made at the dinner last night with conservatives. He's feeling in a fighting mood. And I think that he's not going to take well to criticism over his response to how the federal government is handling Puerto Rico.

CUOMO: Well, Chris, he's got a great foe, Chris, if he wants to fight, right? You know, Maria just about destroyed something that is under his responsibility as president of the United States.


CUOMO: He could have thrown on his khakis, got on a military transport, jumped into Puerto Rico and ridden around like Teddy Roosevelt if he wanted to. He could own that situation. He could fight that need.

CILLIZZA: Rebuild.

CUOMO: He could fight that distress and show "I am the builder. I am the deal maker. I am the doer. I will show you how it's done in a time of need." And he seems to all but have ignored it.

CILLIZZA: And the problem is the context. Because what was his Twitter feed full of during hurricanes Irma and Harvey? What was his -- where did he go visit with Irma and Harvey? He was very quick to go to those places. He sent out lots and lots of tweets about those places. And that's the issue here. It's clearly -- John makes this point.

There's clearly just a difference between the way in which he approached those two storms. Which, by the way, in our polling he got very high marks for. Two-thirds of people said he handled it quite well. And the way that he's handling this.

When Abby was talking, I was thinking the thing I always remember when it comes to Trump, the Twitter feed is him. Right? Everything else that comes out of the White House is sort of the formal mechanisms of government. Right? It's his people; it's his aides. The Twitter feed is him.

[06:10:07] During hurricanes Irma and Harvey, tons of tweets, almost exclusively about those hurricanes. He was very focused on it, clearly. It was taking up his mind space. Now NFL, you know, Luther Strange, that vote being today in Alabama. Nothing on the hurricane until last night. And let's be honest, we know that Donald Trump is a consumer of television. The criticism of him was starting to ramp up, and so out came a tweet that, I think, was meant to counteract that.

But watch his Twitter feed. That is what he cares about. That was what he was focused on. And the simple fact is, if you look at his tweets, up until last night...


CILLIZZA: ... there were 14 or so about the NFL and zero about Puerto Rico.

CAMEROTA: Yes, yes.

CILLIZZA: And that tells you what you need to know.

CAMEROTA: So there was also a lot of criticism on Twitter of the president. People were reacting to his tone-deaf tweets about Puerto Rico. So Marc Anthony, famous singer, obviously, J. Lo's ex, says, "Mr. President, shut the blank up about the NFL. Do something about our people in need in Puerto Rico. We are American citizens, too."

Lin-Manuel Miranda, "Hamilton" fame, "Hey, Donald Trump, you can't wait that long. There will be a lot of American deaths on your watch if you wait that long."

So people are...

CUOMO: He was referring to the speculation about when they'll present...


CUOMO: ... the initial budgetary measure, that it might not be until the beginning of October.

CAMEROTA: To help. Yes.

CUOMO: Right. And they're saying, it doesn't need to be that quick. CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, look, there's, I think, 10,000 FEMA employees -- federal employees helping out in Puerto Rico. There are 3.5 million people without power who need help.

AVLON: Right. Still without power. There's an airport that's basically shut down with people trying to get out. There's massive devastation at a scale greater than Harvey and Irma. The costs possible greater, combined.

And it's this problem that it doesn't seem real to folks. And it does require -- there's the opportunity for leadership, as Chris expressed. Be the builder. You know, this is somebody who's a New Yorker, who should understand instinctively that, you know, Puerto Ricans are fellow Americans. But there seems to be also this cultural divide.

And it's great that the federal government is there. But a lot more is going to need to be done, and it needs to be done with empathy and action and decisiveness. And the fact that it hasn't been, that he's been distracted by these other things speaks, as Chris said, where his head is at.

CUOMO: And, Abby, he's got a great ear for cultural divide. Why do you think he dove -- dived -- what is it, "dove" or "dived"? Which is it?


AVLON: Dove.

CUOMO: Dove into the NFL situation? This was a no-brainer -- I don't even understand the lack of understanding as to why he did this. This is a no-brainer. He loves the culture war.


CUOMO: He always has. He has seeded false culture war. Of course he's going to look at this NFL and say, "This is easy, especially with this Luther Strange situation going on. Roy Moore is out-ugly American-ing me. I will take care of that right now with the NFL." It's got to be working for him.

PHILLIP: Yes, look, I was in the crowd in Alabama on Friday when the president gave that speech, and -- and he was right. They really ate it up. They loved it.

But this is -- it tells you everything you need to know about why the president did it. He was in Alabama. He was in a southern state, in a mostly white crowd, a state that has a long history of racial tensions, where he knew that a message like this would resonate and would resonate very loudly. He'd been talking about football at that rally all night. And it kind of all teed up to this moment in which he went really farther than he's ever gone before with the rhetoric on this issue.

Look, the president is in a position where he needs every opportunity to shore up his base on -- on the issues that he campaigned on. And frankly, he campaigned on this. He talked about this as a candidate. He talked about -- about, you know, Colin Kaepernick needs to maybe find a new country if he doesn't want to stand for the national anthem. He's talked about -- about all of this stuff. I mean, the culture wars were part of his campaign. And so he was delivering on that promise on Friday night.

And, you know, at a time when health care is stalling, when he -- the wall is not built. There was a "build the wall" chant at that rally in Alabama. And it was, frankly, kind of awkward, because the wall is not built. And the president needs to deliver for his base in one way or another. And this is a really easy way for him to do it and do it quite effectively.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, John.

AVLON: Look, you know, the president has got an unerring instinct politically for the divisive, for the culture-war theme. He knows it. He goes after it.

Here's the problem. The execution, the follow-through, almost always there's major blowback. And this is going to blow back in ways that he hasn't expected, I think you're going to find, with the base and with other folks.

Look, this was a fairly isolated protest that didn't have an enormous amount of sympathy. Right? Let's be honest about that.

But with the president weighing in and attacking individuals and statements of conscience in a private market, all of a sudden, you've got a broad coalition of players, and owners and people who care about the NFL saying they're identifying with the kneel, and they're elevating this issue. So he may win politically with his base, but the blowback is going to be something he doesn't expect.

CILLIZZA: Also -- I also think, just very quickly, to add to John's point, there's also -- look, there -- I understand. Abby is 100 percent right about the point scoring, and he did this. He looks at the NFL and he sees a handful of things. Rich, in his mind, entitled, and mostly black. So, in the culture wars, that's a -- that's a hanging curveball to hit.

The problem is, if, as president, you are primarily focused on dividing the country via issues -- yes, you can do it. Yes, it will work for some people. It will be motivational for a group of people. The problem is, you're the president of the United States. Your job is not to find ways in which to divide the country. It is, theoretically, to find ways in which to unite the country.

CUOMO: And that's what Sarah Sanders, you know, the head-shaking moment of her yesterday was, yes, this isn't about what he's against. This is about what he's for. And straight-faced when she said it. I don't know how a reasonable mind can come to that conclusion.

I'm not saying that he's not right on the issue. When the polls come out, we'll see that when you ask the American people...

CILLIZZA: Yes, but that's not the point. That's not the point. The point is...

CUOMO: But that's all he's thinking about, Chris.

CILLIZZA: Yes. Of course.

CUOMO: That's where his head is. "Am I right on this?" People are going to say, "Yes, you should stand," and that's good enough for him.

PHILLIP: I think -- I think it's been very telling that the White House has not been able to find any nuance whatsoever in the protests on the -- at the NFL, whereas there was all the nuance to be found after Charlottesville.

CUOMO: "Some good people."

PHILLIP: That's very telling. And I think...

CUOMO: "Some good people."

CAMEROTA: Fair point. Fair point.

PHILLIP: A lot of people will point -- pointed that out.

CAMEROTA: Stick around till 7:30 Eastern Time, everybody, because you will hear our latest Trump voter panel weigh in on all of these things. They all voted for President Trump and, to a person, they are upset with him talking about this with the NFL. So you'll hear their rationale.

CUOMO: I was surprised by that. I thought that we were going to see Camerota take off the heels and be chased around in this room when the interview was going. "It's just a question." But no.


CUOMO: It's a little counterintuitive today.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I know.

CUOMO: Worth the watch. That would be worth the watch, also.

CAMEROTA: No, it's happened.

CUOMO: Because Camerota is very quick.

All right. So big day -- or this was supposed to be -- you know what this week was supposed to be about, right? This was supposed to be about health care. Remember, the window's closing for the Republicans to get through a bill with just a simple majority, but nothing is simple now.

Is it dead, this health care bill? And if so, will the battle go somewhere from here? We have answers, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:21:33] CAMEROTA: Senate Republicans' third attempt to repeal Obamacare appears to have collapsed after Senator Collins voice her opposition to it. But senators Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy vow to press on with their plan. They faced off against senators Bernie Sanders and Amy Klobuchar at a CNN town hall last night.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Do you know what the most popular health insurance program in America is? It's not the private insurance industry. It is...

GRAHAM: Medicare.

SANDERS: Medicare, yes.

GRAHAM: My good friend Bernie, Obamacare is a placeholder for Berniecare. Berniecare is socialism full born. He's a nice man. But if you want Medicare for all, you're going to wind up with Medicare for nobody. You'll have a card without a real choice.


CAMEROTA: All right. A lot to discuss. Let's bring in our political panel back. We have John Avlon, Abby Phillip, Chris Cillizza.

AVLON: Can I just say that buddy comedy, I could watch Lindsey Graham and Bernie Sanders debate all day long.

CUOMO: It is nice.

AVLON: They could be in a jalopy going down the highway.

CUOMO: It was nice to see people with very different ideas, they do not agree fundamentally.

CAMEROTA: I got that.


CUOMO: But how they disagreed is how democracy...

AVLON: Absolutely. That's how it should work.

CUOMO: There was no, "You're crazy. Get out of my face." And you know...

AVLON: "You're crazy, but I kind of like you."


CUOMO: It was about ideas and about let people digest it with their own argument. I'll tell you, it was refreshing.

AVLON: It really -- it really was. That is the way democracy is supposed to work. It's not the way the Washington, D.C., has been working. But that was -- that was a good moment for people who deeply disagree on the issues.

CUOMO: Nobody called an SOB. Who would have thunk it?

CAMEROTA: That is amazing, that a night passed without that.

Abby, is there going to be a vote on Graham-Cassidy?

PHILLIP: You know, I'm really not sure. I'm not sure that Mitch McConnell is going to want to put out a vote on something that is almost certain to not have enough support. I don't see any path forward right now, based on what's been said already, based on the folks who are a "no," and just based on the options that are available to -- to them to mollify both sides.

If they do anything to sort of target Collins and Murkowski at this point, even though Collins has said "no," Rand Paul is going to be even more staunchly a "no." And then you might lose folks like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee.

So it just doesn't -- it -- I don't think the cards are there. And frankly, you know, President Trump has been, for two days now, basically, saying, "I've moved on. Let's get on to tax reform."

CUOMO: Yes. Just one more beat on this how they disagreed last night, how they voiced dissent. John McCain has, once again -- he's been a big nail in the balloon for this, OK? And this was very tough for Lindsey Graham to take. But listen to how Lindsey Graham discussed John McCain's dissent on this bill.

CAMEROTA: His dear friend.


GRAHAM: He is one of my dearest friends in the world, and John McCain can do whatever damn he wants to. He's earned that right.

John, if you're listening, if we fall short, we'll try to have a better process. Nobody respects you more than I do.

So to any American who's got a problem with John McCain's vote, all I can tell you is that John McCain was willing to die for this country, and he can vote any way he wants to. And it doesn't matter to me.


CAMEROTA: That's touching.


CUOMO: Look, it was real. It was human. Also -- and Cillizza, please, tell me if I'm wrong. But who would come out and bash McCain for his vote?

CILLIZZA: Well, right.

[06:25:05] CUOMO: The president of the United States is going to come out and bash him for his vote. And it did seem that, you know, we're in a weird space where people don't want to take Trump on directly, because they don't want to take the beating and the backlash. Trump is an active enemy. But it was a huge and stark contrast, what we saw from the men and women on that stage, versus what we're seeing, you know, coming out of the White House.

CILLIZZA: Right. But this, again, goes to sort of the one way -- he has one speed. He just does. His speed is full forward and attack, whether it's the NFL, whether it's "Crooked Hillary," whether it's John McCain, whether it's Jeff Flake. I mean, we only have -- you know, the show is only three hours long, so I'm not going to list everybody. But, you know, I mean, that's -- that's what he does. It's what he feels most comfortable doing. And he doesn't seem to grasp the difference.

Again, I mean, I feel like we could talk about this every day. There's a difference between being a candidate for president and being president. We saw that very clearly in Charlottesville, that it was, "Well, on many sides" and then unwillingness to admit that he was wrong.

We see it again, in my opinion, with the NFL versus the -- the Puerto Rico disaster. What is he focused on? He is focused on something that he believes can score him political points.

What is -- what will he focus on tomorrow if his chosen candidate doesn't win? He will almost -- in Alabama? He will almost certainly attack Mitch McConnell and Senate Republicans, because also, by the way, they are not going to get health care done.

Abby was nice about it. I'll be less nice. It seems I would be stunned if somehow 50 votes came out of this thing. These people are against it and they're going to stay against it.

AVLON: Yes. They're already sharpening the knives to go after McConnell inside the White House.


AVLON: And let's be real about this, though. The president rails against people for health care fails. And then, when it's a critical period, he's off talking about anything else to score short-term political points with his base.

You know, this is someone who makes Richard Nixon look like a uniter not a divider. And what we saw on the stage last night, particularly Lindsey Graham talking about his friend John McCain, that ability to disagree agreeably, which is what democracy depends upon. That is utterly lacking. And the White House is primarily a position of moral leadership, and this president doesn't even seem interested in trying to play in that space.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Abby, last point?

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, the president also seems to keep attacking people that he needs to vote for his -- his policy. Attacking John McCain, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul, whoever it is, is not going to work. And frankly, that's the one thing that he keeps doing that is actually very counterproductive in this process.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk about something astonishing.

CUOMO: You were going to just spit it out there. You realized how much trouble that would have given us.

CAMEROTA: It needs a qualifier. Six White House advisers to the president, some before the president got into the White House, some current, have been using private e-mail accounts to do government business. They include Ivanka Trump, Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, Gary Cohn, and Steven Miller.

CUOMO: And Jared Kushner.

CAMEROTA: And Jared Kushner.

AVLON: What's the big deal, guys?

CUOMO: No server.

AVLON: Was this kind of an issue during the campaign?

CUOMO: Here's the pushback. We'll jump to the chase.

AVLON: Sure.

CUOMO: No server. And to give it more context, Hillary Clinton, obviously, was the poster child for this issue about what was disclosed and not disclosed. She spoke about this, right? Do we want -- do we have sound from her on this? All right. Here it is.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And the hypocrisy of this administration, who knew there was no real scandal, who knew that there was no, you know, basis for all their hyperventilating. And now we're finding, as with the latest revelations, that they didn't mean any of it.


CLINTON: It's just the height of hypocrisy.


CUOMO: Now first, admit that you were about to huff and puff on me about the server thing, but when Hillary Clinton comes on and says it, it takes a little of the wind out of you. That is the best part of the argument for Trump dealing with this headline. Is when Hillary Clinton comes out and says "It wasn't a big deal when I did it," it's going to reinforce all the people who believe it was so bad.

But what's the difference between what Clinton did and these six people? AVLON: Because there actually should be some continuity. Right? I

mean, it's the situational ethics that's killing our politics right now. There is hypocrisy, server or no server. This was the core of a campaign, right? "There were e-mails. I don't care about what he said. There were e-mails."

This is something, basically, you'd imagine people close to the president would at least have some internal check to say, "You know what? Let's not use the private e-mail, server, no server."

This is going to resonate as hypocrisy even if Hillary Clinton doesn't help in the overall -- overall conversation. This is another example of something that would normally be a huge deal. But in the context of the self-inflicted scandals of this administration, it's going to seem small.

CAMEROTA: Of course, it's also like if it was about bad judgment, you know, for Hillary Clinton...

AVLON: That's right.

CAMEROTA: And what -- I mean, do we learn nothing? How can they be...


CAMEROTA: ... using private e-mails?

CILLIZZA: By the way, the reason that the Hillary Clinton e-mail thing hit so hard was because it reinforced this idea that the Clintons, broadly speaking, didn't think the rules applied to them.