Return to Transcripts main page


President Trump Visits Las Vegas Shooting Victims; British Prime Minister Icebreaker Moment; Catalonia Declares Independence; Lawmakers Reviving Gun Control Talks. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired October 5, 2017 - 03:00   ET



[03:00:00] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN HOST: His arsenal, his plans and state of mind. Police reveal new details about the Las Vegas shooter.

The war of words and the crisis over Catalonia is escalating. We'll have the details from Barcelona.

A things fall apart for Theresa May. How everything went terribly wrong during a key speech by the British prime minister.

Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church, and this is CNN Newsroom.

There are new details about how the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history unfolded. The police don't have any answers yet on why it happened. They found 50 pounds of explosives and 1600 rounds of ammunition in Stephen Paddock's car at the Mandalay Bay Hotel. The sheriff says there's evidence Paddock planned to survive the attack and escape.


JOSEPH LOMBARDO, SHERIFF, CLARK COUNTY, NEVADA: We're trying to prove his intent or understand his intent and the history associated with this and whether or not he has any accomplices.

More than 100 investigators have spent the last 72 hours combing through the life of 64-year-old Stephen Paddock to produce a profile of someone I will call disturbed and dangerous.

What we know is Stephen Paddock is a man who spent decades acquiring weapons and ammo and live in a secret life, much of which will never be fully understood.


CHURCH: Police say Paddock bought 33 guns in the past 12 months. They're looking for a possible trigger event last October which may have caused him to build up his arsenal.

The FBI has spoken to Paddock's girlfriend. The attorney for Marilou Danley says she did not know what Paddock was planning. The panic that night is clear in the latest video shot by a county worker. It shows police urging people to run from the scene. We must warn you the video is disturbing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay down! Stay down!









UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down. Go east.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get down! Get down! Get down! Get down! Everybody, down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down right here. Right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, go. Go, go, go! Keep going. Guys, keep going, please. Please.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you. I got you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, guys. Tourniquet. Bring it on.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want me to take care of this and you go there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just need bandages, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fortunately, medical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to be all right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's going on right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want me to take care of him so you can go?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (muted) Get down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are shots. Run. Those are shots. Run. Don't walk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Run. Go! Go! Go! Everybody go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go run. Keep your heads down. Go. Keep your heads down. Go. Run. Keep your head down.


[03:05:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep your head down. Run. Keep your head down. Run. Go. Come on. Keep your head down. Go. Come on. Run. Go. Come on.


CHURCH: Terrifying moments. There are people fleeing the scene and the gunman's girlfriend Marilou Danley was out of the country at the time of that attack. Now she has a central role in the investigation.

Sara Sidner has the details.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Marilou Danley the girlfriend of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock. At FBI headquarters in Los Angeles Danley was lock behind closed doors undergoing intense questions from investigators. Their hope that she may hold the key to what drove Paddock to Sunday's horrific mass shooting. Danley tonight issuing a statement through her attorney.


MATT LOMBARD, MARILOU DANLEY'S ATTORNEY: It never occurred to me in any way whatsoever that he was planning violence against anyone.


SIDNER: This is the louse in Mesquite, Nevada where 62-year-old Danley lived most recently with Paddock. It's about 80 miles from the Vegas strip. Danley's ex-step daughter had only kind words for her.


DIONNE WALTRIP, MARILOU DANLEY'S FORMER STEPDAUGHTER: She's a good and gentle person. I know she has to be devastad by what has happened.


SIDNER: Danley met Paddock several years ago. She worked at the Atlantis Casino Resort in Reno. He was a high stakes gambler. Paddock's brother talked about what their life was like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ERIC PADDOCK, STEPHEN PADDOCK'S BROTHER: He loved her and he -- you know, she was a hostess at the hotel. Of course, where we get her and Steve was a big fish and (Inaudible) for a long time.


SIDNER: Danley had been married to Geary Danley since 1990, their divorce finalized in 2015. Danley's sisters say they're heartbroken by the shootings and spoke to Australian television.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marilou seems madly in love with Steve, you know?


SIDNER: But two weeks before the shooting Danley's sister say Paddock handed her what he called a cheap ticket to the Philippines. The search for Danley was complicated as it spanned several different countries. First stop, Tokyo, from there to Manila landing on September 15th. On the 22nd, Danley flew to Hong Kong. Then three days later, back to Manila for a week before returning to Los Angeles last night.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Imagine if she was there, if he took his life. He would definitely take my sister's life as well because she's there. What he done here is he spared my sister's life. He sent her away so that he can plan what he's planning without interruptions. In that sense I thank him for sparing my sister's life.


SIDNER: During that time Paddock wired $100,000 to the Philippines. Eric Paddock told our Orlando affiliate he believes his brother sent the money to quote, "take care of Marilou." But Danley's sisters don't describe Paddock as a caring and they're angry at the pain and mystery he's left behind.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very quiet. He's not sociable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He escaped. And he leave us here putting the puzzle together.


SIDNER: Sara Sidner, CNN, Nevada.

CHURCH: Well, U.S. President Donald Trump and his wife traveled to Las Vegas on Wednesday to meet with some of the victims who survived Sunday night's massacre. He also spent time with local police who responded to the carnage and hustled others away from danger. The president praised the first responders for saving countless lives as gunfire rained down on the concert crowd.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Words cannot describe the bravery that the whole world witnessed on Sunday night. Americans defied death and hatred with love and with courage.


CHURCH: With us now from Birmingham, England is Scott Lucas. He is a professor of international politics at the University of Birmingham. Thanks so much for being with us.

So, President Trump and the first lady visited the victims of the Las Vegas shooting Wednesday as well as the first responders. Did he hit the right tone in your view?

SCOTT LUCAS, POLITICS PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM: Well, he at least stuck to script in contrast to the previous day in Puerto Rico where he made some comments that were say unusual and off the cuff.

He both, in thanking the first responders and then in a relatively brief statement talked about of course loss, talked about pain, thanked those who had prevented further loss of life. That's all fine. It wasn't the Trump we usually see because he's not comfortable reading. It tended to be a little bit wooden a little bit stiff but nothing went wrong.

[03:09:56] The problem is what went on beyond Las Vegas and that is that while Trump was trying to show his authority as he has by visiting the various hurricane sites. The failure to respond to Puerto Rico already had put him in a very difficult position.

And yesterday, you'll notice that many news outlets, including CNN, were just as focused on the breaking story about Rex Tillerson allegedly calling Donald Trump a moron because of their dispute in July rather than what was happening in Las Vegas.

CHURCH: Yes. And we will certainly get to that. But I did want to ask you this. President Trump doesn't want to talk about gun control right now. He doesn't feel it's the right time. But democrats, even some republicans appear open to the idea of banning the bump stocks that the Las Vegas gunman used to convert 12 of his guns to automatic weapons.

Could this signal a possible turning point for gun control in this country do you think?

LUCAS: I'm afraid not. Rosemary, I've been on with news outlets including CNN. After the Sandy Hook shooting several years ago when a different president, President Obama who really wanted gun control offered consoling words but very little was done.

I then talked to other outlets just over a year ago after the Orlando shootings. And again, we had those words of consolation and grief and very little was done.

There are just simply so many roadblocks in Congress to any effective action, and on top of that we have a president in Donald Trump who not only does not want additional gun laws, he wants to strip away the gun laws we do have. So, indeed, in this week in Congress, remember, we're actually talking about lifting the ban on silencers and we're talking about lifting the ban on transporting guns across state lines. That's not gun control.

CHURCH: And I want to move back to that point that you just raised a moment ago when the president was visiting Vegas. He was asked about that NBC report the claim Secretary of State Rex Tillerson had called him a moron. Mr. Trump said it was fake news and he added that he did have total confidence in Mr. Tillerson despite the fact of course that the secretary of state didn't deny calling him a moron.

What are we all to make of that and that relationship and will Tillerson survive this?

LUCAS: Well, let's cut to the chase. NBC had 12 very well-placed sources for that story, including some inside the White House and some close friends of Donald Trump. Then let's add the fact that when Rex Tillerson was asked about this he did not deny that he made the statement. He said he didn't want to resign but he didn't deny he made the statement.

But there's a wider story here, that is, effectively Rex Tillerson, James Mattis, the Defense Secretary, and H.R. McMaster, the national security advisor, have an effective pact that at least one of them has to be in Washington at any time because of their uncertainty over what Donald Trump will do if he's left alone.

That means that I think Tillerson who doesn't really want to stay on but I think he will because right now he and the other national security members of the team just don't think it will be good if they leave Trump behind.

CHURCH: All right. Scott Lucas, always great to get your perspective on these political matters. Joining us there from Birmingham in England, where it is 8.12 in the morning. Many thanks.

And this just in to CNN. After nearly two weeks of fighting, Iraqi forces have captured the ISIS stronghold Hawija. The town was the last remaining area still under control by the terror group in Iraq. Its capture is a significant victory for Baghdad. ISIS still occupies an area along Iraq's border with Syria.

Well, both Twitter and Facebook say they will take part in a public congressional hearing on Russia's use of social media in the 2016 U.S. election. That is scheduled for the 1st of November.

Google has also been invited. The U.S. Senate intelligence committee says it still can't rule out possible collusion between the Trump team and Russian officials.

On Wednesday, committee leaders gave an update on their investigation saying there's evidence the Russians used hacking, cyber espionage, and social media including thousands of Facebook ads to influence the vote. And the committee's chairman has a warning.


SEN. RICHARD BURR, (D), NORTH CAROLINA : The Russian intelligence service is determined, clever, and I recommend that every campaign and every election official take this very seriously as we move into this November's election and as we move into preparation for the 2018 election.


CHURCH: So let's go live now to Moscow where our Jill Dougherty is standing by. Good to see you, Jill. so what's being said in Moscow about all this evidence that Russia used hacking, cyber, espionage, and social media in an effort to influence the 2016 presidential election?

[03:14:57] JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Rosemary, there's not really a direct answer to this and I think that you shouldn't really expect it. Because Russia had said all along right from the beginning that it did not interfere. It had no role. There was no reason for it to.

And in fact, the Russian officials with whom I've spoken used the word ludicrous, that it is laughable that Russia would want to do that. Why they say. And also a number of them have said to me how could anyone hack into or affect the election in, you know, the world's biggest democracy?

So, there's that kind of approach. And also, I think it's notable that the Russians now are turning it against the United States and saying that they fear that the United States will interfere in their upcoming election which will be the presidential election in March of 2018.

So, there's not a lot of answering this. There is concern about where we're going with all of this but no specific answers.

CHURCH: And Jill, this is what deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe in an interview with CNBC. Let's just listen.


ANDREW MCCABE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: We should have predicted it with more clarity maybe than we did because when you overlay these attacks onto what we've known on a counterintelligence side about the Russians for many years it completely fits into their playbook.

We know their intents. We know what drives them. And this ability to insert themselves into our systems to sow discord, social and political unrest is right up their alley and it's something we probably should have seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH: So the FBI admits it should have seen this coming. Why do you

think they missed this given what we already know Russia is capable of when it comes to interfering in the elections of various countries, and will we continue to see this same level of interference going forward?

DOUGHERTY: Well, on that second point they do say -- I mean, the members of the committee who briefed yesterday this FBI agent, et cetera, do say and the intelligence community, says that Russia will continue to try to influence elections or influence the political life in the United States.

Now, as to whether we should have seen this coming I think what he's referring to is, you know, over the years not just beginning in the election of 2016, but there were indications of some attempt to influence things going back a number of years.

And then you look at Russian media outlets sometimes some would argue they're propaganda outlets that have tried to influence what is going on in the United States. Now it ranges from direct, let's say attempts to affect the election systems of the people, the systems that Americans use for electing.

But beyond that, I think the hardest thing to pin down but perhaps most effective is the attempt to change the thinking of Americans, to change their thinking about their own democracy, to sow dissension. These are the things that this investigation by the FBI and certainly the intelligence committee talking about this, stir things up increase doubt, et cetera.

Those are attempts that have been ongoing for a long time. Yes, people were watching it but I think during the election it really became much more intense much more directed and things that had been used before were as they say, weaponized.

CHURCH: All right. Jill Dougherty, joining us from Moscow where it is 10.20 in the morning. Many thanks to you.

Three U.S. special ops members were killed and two others wounded in an ambush in Niger. They were on patrol with local forces when the attack happened. The U.S. military has kept a small presence in Niger to advise the country's troops as they battle two terror groups. Boko Haram which is affiliated with ISIS and Al Qaeda's North African branch.

Well, the crisis over Catalonia's independence vote is getting worse. What the region's president said about the Spanish king and his latest plans for independence.

Plus, British Prime Minister Theresa May faces more questions on her leadership. This time, hand-delivered by quite the prankster. We'll explain when we come back.


CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Catalonia is expected to formally declare independence on Monday, deepening Spain's worst political crisis in decades. Tensions grew especially high on Wednesday after Catalonia's leader lashed out of the king of Spain and accused him of ignoring the voices of millions of people.


CARLES PUIGDEMONT, PRESIDENT OF CATALONIA (through translator): The king has adopted the points of view and policies of the Rajoy government which have been catastrophic to Catalonia and he deliberately ignores the millions of Catalans who don't think like him.

He ignores the liberty of Catalans who have been victims of police violence that shocked the world. The king has missed an opportunity I say to talk to all citizens.


CHURCH: The king says Catalan leaders broke the law with their independence vote on Sunday.

So let's head to Barcelona now and CNN's Isa Soares. Isa, it's good to see you. So, four days to go before Catalonia formally declare its independence. Could some compromise solution be found before Monday do you think?

ISA SOARES, INTERNATIONAL CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, many people here are still hoping that both sides will come to the negotiating table that someone will act as mediator. Already nearly answered this morning we've seen some political party -- some leaders of some political parties trying to mediate to see whether both can come to the negotiating table and find a solution, Rosie.

But as you just heard there from Carles Puigdemont, the President of Catalonia, you know, they're still trading barb, they're still not seeing eye to eye and that neither side are really preparing to budge. So the question now is, you know, it's like a game of chess. Who moves first and what is -- who will accept any sort of concessions?

We heard there from Carles Puigdemont basically saying and speaking to the king directly at one point to the nine-minute speech saying that he is the mouth piece for the government of Mariano Rajoy of not accusing him of not listening to so many Catalans who don't think like him.

After that, the government of Spain, of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy actually approved like another punch at the president saying, you know, being -- of him being deployed.

I mean, this is what they said. They said, "The president of Catalonia not only is against the law, they say, but is also outside reality." So here we have still punch being traded back and forth between both sides and people here waiting for some solution to come before the government and here behind me, declares unilaterally, declares independent, Rosie -- independence, Rosie. CHURCH: Yes. And Isa, I wanted to ask you that. I mean, what will

likely happen Monday if no solution is found and Catalonia does declare independence from Spain?

SOARES: So what we know from what's going to happen is the president of Catalonia will take the votes to parliament. It's taken slightly longer to recount many of the votes that came from outside but also accusations there have been people voting three or four times at some point.

So he's taking that to parliament. There will be discussion. Each person will speak 10 minutes or so. And in from there or any if they agree with what he has to say and his position to call for independence he can basically declare independence within 45 minutes or 48 hours. It's really up to him.

After that it's really a question of who moves first. We know the government of central of Madrid, the Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy doesn't recognize the referendum. It says it is unconstitutional.

[03:24:53] So, the hypothesis here, Rosie, at this moment they will invoke article 155 of the Spanish Constitution. And that basically means they take over the running of Catalonia. What does that mean? Do they then imprison some officials? Do they then actually have troops on the ground? We don't know. But that of course is the last sort. And already an environment that is so toxic could make it much, much worse, Rosie.

CHURCH: Yes, indeed. A real concern for people in the area. Isa Soares joining us there live from Barcelona where it is 9.25 in the morning. Many thanks.

Well, British Prime Minister Theresa May has struggled through Brexit battles and a bruising election in recent months. Her speech to conservative party leaders Wednesday was a chance to get back on track. But things did not go as planned.

CNN's Max Foster reports.

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: With her job as prime minister under pressure and the government still reeling from a bruising election campaign, Theresa May came prepared with a mea culpa.


THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I hold my hands up for that. I take responsibility. I led the campaign and I am sorry.



FOSTER: And a heady dose of self-deprecation.


MAY: I don't mind being called things like the ice maiden.


FOSTER: Her speech was meant to be a turning point silencing her critics and resetting the government's agenda. But it was soon up stage by an intruder. In a breach of security the man was able to reach the prime minister's lectern handing her a P-45 unemployment notice.

While he was being led out of the conservative party conference, Prime Minister May tried to get back on message.


MAY: I was -- I was about to talk about somebody I'd like to give a P-45 too, and that's Jeremy Corbyn.



FOSTER: But soon it was her voice that gave way.


MAY: Our economy is back on track. Why we will met -- excuse me.


FOSTER: Led by the U.K. cabinet the crowd rose to its feet give her time to recover.


MAY: Thank you.


FOSTER: The chancellor handing the prime minister a throat lozenge.


MAY: I hope you notice that, ladies and gentlemen. The chancellor giving something away free.


FOSTER: Despite several rounds of talks in Brussels there's a growing sense of frustration at the slow pace of resolving differences between the two sides.


MAY: I believe it is profoundly in all our interests for the negotiations to succeed. But I know that some are worried whether we are prepared in the event that they do not. It is our responsibility as a government to prepare for every eventuality. And let me reassure everyone in this hall that is exactly what we are doing.


FOSTER: And the reassurance too. She wants E.U. citizens already living in the U.K. to stay.


MAY: That we value the contribution you make to the life of our country. You are welcome here.


FOSTER: In politics, though, imagery can be everything. Nearly an hour into her speech the sign behind her head began falling apart. One letter at a time. For a prime minister with her back up against the wall some might see it as a metaphor for her leadership.

Max Foster, CNN, Manchester.

CHURCH: Not a good day. All right. Let's take a very short break. But still to come, U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson defends his relationship with Donald Trump after it's revealed he allegedly called the president a moron.

Plus, after another mass shooting U.S. lawmakers try to push for change. Why it might just work this time. We'll explain.


CHURCH: A warm welcome back to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. Time to update you now on the main stories we've been following this hour.

Investigators are still trying to piece together why Stephen Paddock opened fire on the Las Vegas concert crowd. Police found 50 pounds of explosives and 1600 rounds of ammunition in his parked car. His live- in girlfriend said she had no idea he was planning violence against anyone.

After two weeks of fighting U.S.-backed forces in Iraq have captured the city center of Hawija from ISIS. It's the last major city the terror group had held in the country. On Tuesday, the U.N. said up to 78,000 civilians could be trapped inside the town.

Catalonia is expected to formally declare independence Monday, deepening Spain's worst political crisis in decades. The Catalan president says the king of Spain is ignoring the voices of millions of people. The king says Catalan leaders broke the law with their independence vote.

Three U.S. special ops membs were killed and two others wounded in an ambush in Niger. They were on patrol with local forces when the attack happened. The U.S. military has kept a small presence in Niger to advise troops as they battle Boko Haram, an Al Qaeda's North African branch. Forty seven weapons. Police say that is how many Las Vegas gunman

Stephen Paddock had in his arsenal. At least that's how many they've found so far. How did he get so many guns without raising any suspicion?

Here's CNN's Jessica Schneider.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Law enforcement sources say Stephen Paddock amassed 33 guns just in the past year. Many of those 33 may have been stockpiled inside his Mandalay Bay Hotel suite where he orchestrated a shooting massacre. The spray of bullets lasted 9 to 11 minutes killing 58 country music concertgoers. Inside the suite investigators counted 23 weapons.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is still being determined which firearms were used in the shooting.


SCHNEIDER: Twelve of the weapons inside Paddock's room were equipped with bump fire stocks. A device demonstrated in this YouTube video. It allows the weapon to fire in rapid succession simulating fully automatic fire. A bump fire stock is legal and easy to obtain.


SAM RABADI, ATF SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Very easy. It can be purchased directly from the company or in different online sales from a number of vendors.


SCHNEIDER: Investigators have uncovered 47 firearms so far, 23 from inside Paddock's hotel room and another 24 from his homes in Mesquite and Verdi, Nevada.

Law enforcement sources say Paddock has been accumulating his collection of weapons for the past 20 years. The sales apparently never raised any red flags since Paddock had no criminal history. And out west the possession of large quantities of firearms by hunters and collectors isn't uncommon.


RABADI: There are states in the country where there's a lot of hunting that goes on and outdoor activities. There are also areas where you have a higher population of collectors. So the purchase of that many firearms in and of itself would not necessarily be an indicator for us.


SCHNEIDER: Rabadi estimate Paddock's arsenal cost tens of thousands of dollars with some weapons costing 2,000 to $4000 each. Paddock purchased his guns in four separate states, Nevada, Utah, California, and Texas according to the ATF frequenting shops in Nevada.

He bought several long guns at Cabelas in Verdi, according to a law enforcement source. In Las Vegas he bought a shotgun and a rifle from the New Frontier gun shop and two rifles and one handgun from Discount Firearms & Ammo in November and December of 2016.

[03:35:03] In Mesquite, Paddock purchased a handgun and two rifles from Guns and Guitars within the past year. And the owner of Dixie GunWorx in St. George, Utah sold Paddock a shotgun.


CHRIS MICHEL, OWNER, DIXIE GUNWORX: He passed all of our background checks here in the store. He passed every red flag that could have popped up. But it's still there. It's still something that I'm still going what else could I have done better.


SCHNEIDER: There is no national registry of firearm ownership in the United States so even though Paddock acquired 33 guns in the span of one year since they were from different locations and he presumably passed background checks, no red flags were ever raised enabling Paddock to carry out his horrific attack.

Jessica Schneider, CNN, Washington.

CHURCH: These kinds of mass shootings inevitably bring up calls for gun control. And we want to hear both sides of this issuee.

Let's bring in our guest Richard Feldman is a former operative with the National Rifle Association. And Ladd Everitt is a gun control advocate. He is the director of the group One Pulse for America. Thank you, gentlemen for joining us.

Richard Feldman, I want to go to you first. We have viewers watching this show from all around the world and many of them are scratching their heads wondering why any person needs to have an automatic weapon or why they need to legally purchase a bump stock to convert a gun to an automatic weapon. Explain to us why American citizens need to have access to military style weapons.

RICHARD FELDMAN, FORMER LOBBYIST, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: Well, I think you know, the question jumps something more important to an international audience. It's if you want to understand the psyche of America on the gun issue one has to recognize that moreover than just being a tool a gun is a very potent symbolic issue in the psyche of the American political mindset.

A gun separates we, the citizens who are in control of our government who are supposed to be the servants. So it's a very powerful symbol and symbols in politics are often far more powerful than the thing they in fact are.


CHURCH: OK. So, sir. So, sir, that' the symbol of it but let's get back to the question


CHURCH: Why do citizens of America need military weapons?

FELDMAN: Well, these aren't military weapons.


CHURCH: Automatic guns are -- they are military weapons. Why would you need to mow anything down whether you're hunting...


FELDMAN: He did not have a military weapon. He did not have a fully automatic. What he had was a device that seems to convert it and allows it to fire faster than you could with one finger.

Now I know and well, I think was around long enough to also remember when there was a device called a hell fire trigger. And after its use in a shooting back in the early 1990's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms outlawed it. Actually I hadn't even heard of this device until yesterday morning.

CHURCH: Ladd Everitt, if I could get your reaction there. I'm still struggling to understand why a citizen needs to have an automatic weapon.

LADD EVERITT, DIRECTOR, ONE PULSE FOR AMERICA: On the question of assault weapons I think Richard kind of hinted at why Americans might feel they, you know, quote, unquote, "need assault weapons." And it's this idea that is called frequently the insurrectionist idea that individuals have a right under the Second Amendment to take up arms against their government employ violence essentially when they personally believe that our government has become tyrannical.

This is not an idea that's actually borne out in the Constitution. The Constitution makes it patently clear that the role of our militia is to suppress insurrections not to ferment them. But it's an idea that still has a lot of cachet in segments of America that are virulently anti-government.

CHURCH: Richard, back to you, the democrats are looking at ways to ban modified rapid fire guns like the 12 found in the Las Vegas shooter's hotel room. What's your response to that effort?

FELDMAN: And to me being, they, you know, for 40 years now one party or the other from time to time has tried to ban guns from the American people. When they do that they find themselves losing elections. It has cost the Democratic Party at least three presidential runs.


CHURCH: Sir, they're trying to ban guns and no one is trying to take away the -- no one is trying to take away the Second Amendment right. We're talking about the bump stocks. We're talking about military- style weapons specifically.

[03:40:06] FELDMAN: No, we're not talking about military-style question.


CHURCH: We're talking about the ban -- the effort by the democrats to ban those rapid-fire weapons and the effort to actually use the bump stocks.

FELDMAN: So let's be clear what you're talking about. If we're talking about semiautomatic firearms or we're talking about fully automatic firearms. Fully automatic guns are highly regulated and I suspect that he didn't have any.

I think there will be a move to outlaw this bump stock and it's not going to bother me one iota if that's the way it goes. But you start talking about banning semiautomatic firearms owned by tens of millions of Americans and at the end of the day gun owners care very deeply in this country about their firearm rights.

And they make sure that they come out to vote on Election Day. So woe unto politicians who think this will work to their benefit. It will not.

CHURCH: Ladd Everitt, I want to go back to you and give you the last word. And we do emphasize they're not talking about taking away the Second Amendment. And that's a little overarching on the side of the anti-gun control lobby. So talk to us and explain to us what you want to see in terms of gun control.

EVERITT: Sure, sure. Well, look, the weapons that the Las Vegas shooter had certainly were battlefield rifles. He had AR-15 variants, AK-47 variants. And let's be clear about something too, very clear.

There are many American troops serving overseas that are issued semiautomatic fire-only rifles. Fire with these weapons under semiautomatic fire is actually far more accurate and conserves and uses less ammunition. So in some ways it's advantageous in many of these shootings.

But the bottom line is I believe that Richard's bluster is very much outdated. I believe that there was a time when going big and making actual asks might have hurt the gun control movement but we've come a long way since then particularly since Newtown. We're far better organized on the ground than we've ever been.

I believe we have more energy than the pro-gun side and that, you know, I'd certainly be happy to prove that. But we need to be making a bigger ask now than background checks and a study.

I was just watching Nancy Pelosi's town hall and she's got gun owners telling her that they are ready to support the assault weapons ban and she's offering them these little reforms. We need to -- we need to be better than that. We need to be more confident and bold in our advocacy and then we will find that we are changing culture and beginning to get the reforms we need to save lives.

CHURCH: Clearly, this is not the end of this debate. It will continue on in the days, the weeks, the month ahead. Ladd Everitt, thank you so much for joining us, also Richard Feldman, many thanks to both of you.

Now we mentioned bump stocks a few times in that discussion, devices that accelerate the fire rate of a semiautomatic gun. Now on Wednesday, Senator Dianne Feinstein introduced a bill that would ban the sale of those and similar accessories. Take a listen.


SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, (D), CALIFORNIA: Bump stocks which cost less than $200 increase a semiautomatic rifle's rate of fire from between 45 and 60 rounds per minute to between 400 and 800 rounds per minute. That's the same rate of fire as automatic weapons.

And the only reason to modify a gun is to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.


CHURCH: And now, even some republicans say they are willing to consider measures like the one Senator Feinstein has proposed.


REP. TOM COLE, (R), OKLAHOMA: When I heard the, I saw the clips and heard the fire I just assumed he had an automatic weapon. I did not know that there was technology capable that cheaply transforming a semiautomatic into an automatic weapon. So, yes, I don't think there's any question we ought to look at that.


CHURCH: And some prominent republican senators echoed that sentiment saying they needed to research the devices but wanted them to be a part of the debate.

Well, beyond the politics, beyond the debates we must not forget thw 58 innocent people were killed in an act of senseless violence. And here are just a few of their stories.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went out protecting Heather. That shows his true self in his last moments of life, he was protecting other people like he would do every day.

[03:45:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, a tragic loss. This is a really great guy that unfortunately a lot of people are never going to get to know.

VERONICA MALDONADO, ANGELA GOMEZ'S FRIEND: She had a boyfriend of four years who loved her so, so much. Their relationship is just something straight out of a movie, you know. We would always joke around that they would be the first one of us to get married.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was awesome. I mean, she was everyone's friend. Whenever I walk by she took time to look my way, wave and smile and that wasn't just for me, that was for everybody. She was that kind of person.

MICHAEL MATTHEWS, SUPERINTENDENT, MANHATTAN BEACH UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: There was just a great deal of love in the classroom. You can feel it today. There was humor in there. There was caring in there. We lost a person today who will not be replaced.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were devastated. Susan has been with us a long time. She was wonderful. Very well-loved and really good at her job. Great with the kids, great with the staff and it's just hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole community has lost a great person in Bailey Schweitzer and she going to be truly missed everywhere.



CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Myanmar's de facto leader Aung San Suu Kyi is being stripped of the Freedom of Oxford honor. She was given the British title two decades ago for her long struggle for democracy and her ties to Oxford University where she studied. But a British lawmaker says the title should be revoked base on her dismissal of the numerous claims of violence against the Rohingya Muslim community.

The United Nation accuses Myanmar of a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Rohingya.

Rex Tillerosn is known for keeping the media at arm's length and gives few on-camera briefings. But on Wednesday, the U.S. secretary of state called an impromptu press conference that showered praise on his boss.

Just a few hours earlier an NBC report said Tillerson almost resigned over the summer because of policy and personal differences with President Trump. The report said Vice President Mike Pence stepped in to change his mind. Tillerson denied that.


[03:49:56] REX TILLERSON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: The vice president has never had to persuade me to remain the secretary of state because I have never considered leaving this post.


CHURCH: But Tillerson did not outright deny the other headline- grabbing detail in that report. NBC says and CNN has confirmed since then that Tillerson called the president a moron after a meeting at the Pentagon. Here is how Tillerson responded to the question about that.


TILLERSON: I'm not going to deal with petty stuff like that. I mean, this is -- this is what I don't understand about Washington. Again, you know, I'm not from this place. But the places I come from we don't deal with that kind of petty nonsense.


CHURCH: So let's talk more about this. CNN global affairs analyst, David Rohde joins me now. David, always good to have you on the show. So, what do you make of this apparent tension between President Trump and his Secretary of State Rex Tillerson?

DAVID ROHDE, GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, CNN: Well, it's not true there's been tension between many senior officials. And Donald Trump he cycled through a large number of people, a chief of staff, a national security adviser, a press secretary and two communications directors. There's rumors that Trump wants to remove Tillerson but this high rate of turnover he's sort of embarrass by it so he doesn't want to push Tillerson out yet.

CHURCH: So, if this all apparently happened in the summer this exchange and Mr. Trump is worried about the threat of another high- profile departure, then why would he continue to undermine Mr. Tillerson when he recently tweeted that he was wasting his time trying to negotiate with North Korea and little rocket man as he calls Kim Jong-un.

ROHDE: That's the big question. He severely criticized Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The tweet saying that Tillerson was wasting his time on North Korea was I'm sure intensely frustrating personally to Secretary Tillerson.

It was also, frankly, in my perspective very dangerous. It was extraordinary to have the president of the United States dismiss a major diplomatic effort regarding a nuclear-armed country. So this is a pattern with Trump. It isn't just about Tillerson. This is his management style, and you know, we'll see how it goes.

Today, Tillerson very strongly backed the president, so maybe the relationship is better than the press reports indicate.

CHURCH: So what does this -- and of course, so many other problems confronting the Trump administration right now, what does it signal about Mr. Trump's presidency?

ROHDE: I think it signals instability to foreign countries and it shows that that there's not a sort of clear strategy here. Tillerson is part of a triumvirate of people who are seen as maybe stabilizing the administration. That would include the national security advisor H.R. McMaster and the Defense Secretary James Mattis.

And into a lesser extent, the chief of staff John Kelly. They're seen as preventing chaos. That's what an American senator said today. But again, it's not clear how long this will last. Trump likes to act on his own. There's questions about his knowledge of basic policies, basic foreign policy and he believes in himself. So, we'll see how this goes.

CHURCH: David Rohde, thanks so much for your analysis. Always appreciate it.

ROHDE: Thank you.

CHURCH: And we'll take a short break. We're back in a moment.


[03:54:58] CHURCH: Welcome back. Well, Donald Trump got social media bashing when he playfully tossed paper towels to hurricane victims in Puerto Rico.

CNN's Jeanne Moos tells us about the rants and raves over the president's behavior.

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is how not to distribute aid especially if fine like paper towels they're not very absorbent when it comes to criticism.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the goose ball out again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Acting like, you know, Steph Curry shooting paper towels to people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he really thin like the paper towels are to sop up the flood?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at that. I'm having fun. This one was a three-pointer.


MOOS: Twitter was brutal. Here Puerto Rico have a paper towels the caption above photos of devastation. This isn't a giveaway. You're not Oprah, tweeted someone else. Our president is basically a t-shirt cannon, wrote a senior editor from Cosmo.

Conservative David Frum tweeted, "as if dispensing dog treats to pets." President Trump's towel tossing was compared to other presidents hugging disaster victims but at least when the president jokingly threatened to lob a can of chicken, the crowd laughingly said no. They seemed to be enjoying things amid the bounty of criticism Trump supporters came to the president's defense.

"Trump just tried to make people laugh for a few minutes and he gets nothing but grief," commented one. Wrote another, "geez, first they whine he's not in Puerto Rico. Now they're pissed he's helping out."

The president handed out other items normally and lobbed only six rolls of towels on camera but that's the part that sticks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JIMMY KIMMEL, TV HOST: He really puts the ass in compassion, doesn't he?


MOOS: The president found himself compared to Marie Antoinette.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them eat paper towels.

MOOS: The next time President Trump gets the urge to toss maybe he better stick to his make America including Puerto Rico great again hats. As former democratic Congressman John Dingle tweeted, "heck of a job, Brawny."

Jeanne Moss, CNN, New York.

CHURCH: And thanks so much for your company this hour. I'm Rosemary Church. Remember to connect with me anytime on Twitter. I'd love to hear from you.

The news continues with our Max Foster in London. You're watching CNN. Have yourselves a great day.