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Freed Taliban Hostage Won't Board U.S. Plane; Trump Falsely Claims Stock Gains Help Offset National Debt; NYPD Now Investigating Harvey Weinstein Allegations. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 12, 2017 - 15:30   ET


[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: -- in the U.S. But first this is what the President said earlier. Praising the Pakistani government for helping this rescue.


Donald Trump, president of the United States: I want to thank the Pakistani government. We want to thank Pakistan. They worked very hard on this. And I believe they're starting to respect the United States again. It is very important. I think a lot of countries, right now, a lot of countries are starting to respect the United States of America once again.


BALDWIN: Do you think that is a fair word, respecting the U.S. more? I mean, even just looking General Kelly earlier, he didn't go that for. He said I think there's been a change in cooperation with Pakistan and the U.S. What do you make of those words and what do you think Pakistan's motivation was in helping getting them released.

SHAMILA CHAUDHARY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR FOR PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN: I think it is a dramatic shift in how President Trump and his administration have been talking about Pakistan just a few days ago or a weeks ago. We heard them putting a lot of pressure on the Pakistanis and talking about the need for them to be true partners and with just one action Trump has changed his tune on Pakistan.

I think it is a great opportunity for him to distinguish himself from Obama, which seems to be his primary mandate in office on every issue. And the timing couldn't have been more perfect for the Pakistanis. They just had a senior level visit here to the United States. The Foreign Minister had several meetings at the State Department and with other senior U.S. officials. And it really looks like the Pakistanis came here trying to improve their relationship with the United States. And went back home and offered this as an incentive for the United States to be more positive towards the Pakistanis. And I would just say that this is nothing new out of the Pakistani playbook. They have often done things that the United States has wanted them to do, if they are tactical, but they don't require a shift in Pakistan's strategic calculus toward certain militants. And I think this is a great opportunity for them to do that. There is no loss for them.

BALDWIN: What about, the fact is, Shawn, she was pregnant with baby number one when she gets kidnapped by the Taliban affiliated Haqqani network, and then later has these other two children in captivity. I'm just left wondering what do you know about this terror group who's holding her and how they would have been treated. Obviously, they were allowed to be together for some if not all of their time, what do you know?

SHAWN TURNER, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR U.S. POLICY IN PAKISTAN, AFGHANISTAN: This is the Haqqani network and as you know, that is network that's affiliated with ISIS. This is the same network, by the way that held Bowe Bergdahl for several years. It does raise some interesting questions with regard to what their day to day life was like. You have the juxtaposition of the fact that they had a couple children while in captivity. But you also have a description of Joshua Boyle who refers to living in a basement and I think that there's reporting that Caitlin also referred to their existence as Kafkaesque. To kind of give you some sense of how difficult this was.

We do know that this network, the Haqqani network, they can be extremely brutal but they're also very smart. They look at perceptions and they make decisions based on perceptions. I think that as was pointed out, this would have been a very calculated move. Both on the part of the Pakistanis and as well as on the part of the Haqqani network.

BALDWIN: Shawn Turner, thank you. Shamila Chaudhary, thank you both very much on that. We'll keep following that story of course, and see what happens with the family.

Meantime, President Trump claims the record highs in the stock market are basically reducing the national debt. The only problem is that is totally wrong. Two economists join me live to weigh-in.


BALDWIN: Welcome back, I'm Brook Baldwin. President Trump likes to point to gains in the stock market as proof he is making good on his campaign promise to improve the economy. But a claim he made last night during an interview with his friend Don at Fox News is getting blowback from economists. I want you to listen here as the president claims recent stock market gains are reducing the national debt.


TRUMP: The country, we took it over at $20 trillion. In the last eight years they borrowed more than they did in the whole history of our country. So, they borrowed more than $10 trillion. Right. And yet we picked up 5.2 trillion just in the stock market. Possibly picked up the whole thing in terms of first nine months, in terms of the value. So, you could say in one sense we're really increasing values and maybe in the sense we're reducing debt.


BALDWIN: I have with me CNN's senior economic analyst, Stephen Moore. He is the chief economist at the Heritage foundation. And served as an economic advisor to the Trump campaign. Also with us, Senior policy analyst with Americans for Financial Reform, Alexis Goldstein. And so, welcome to both of you, and Alexis first to you. Just the notion that the president suggested last night in this interview that the stock market gains are reducing the debt, it's false. Can you explain that to everyone watching?

ALEXIS GOLDSTEIN, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, AMERICANS FOR FINANCIAL REFORM: I mean it just doesn't make any sense. Unless what the president is suggesting is that he wants to nationalize American companies. Seize their assets, sell them off and then take the money and use it to pay down the debt. That would be interesting. But I'm pretty sure that's not what Trump is suggesting. These are two different buckets of money. And it is confusing messaging. It's muddled messaging. It's wrong. And it's coming at a time when they're trying to push tax cuts for Wall Street and wealthy Americans. And so, he's braking about the stock market and he's using that as justification for why he needs to cut taxes on corporations. The messaging doesn't make sense.

BALDWIN: Stephen, you are one of the smartest numbers guys I know, why is the president saying this?

STEPHEN MOORE, CNN'S SENIOR ECONOMIC ANALYST: First of all, let's remember that every American -- virtually every American is invested in the stock market even if they don't know they are. Because, Brooke, we have trillions and trillions of dollars of pension funds that are on the pensions of tens of millions of workers that are invested in the stock market.

[16:10:02] So, when the stock market goes up everyone benefits. Now this question about what impact does the increase in valuation of the stocks have on the debt. First of all, $5 trillion increase in well is a gigantic increase in just nine months. It's been one of the great booms of the stock market we've seen in many, many years. But remember, Brooke, that when stocks go up, eventually people have to pay tax on those gains. You either have to pay a capital gains tax on the gains. That's right now is high as 24 percent. If the company pays out those gains in dividends there is also a 24 percent tax on those dividends. So, yes but the federal government does a lot better in terms of its finances when the stock market goes up.

BALDWIN: But, Stephen, the fact that he has on more than one occasion connecting the two, it's wrong.

MOORE: No, I mean, look, I don't think it is wrong. I think there is a direct correlation between how well the U.S. economy and stock market do and what happens to the debt. The debt is reduced overtime if we have a growing stock market and put more people to work. I think that was sort of the point that Donald Trump was making. If the size of the asset base of the United States goes up, our ability to finance and pay down that debt is greatly enhanced and we're in better financial position.

GOLDSTEIN: Brooke, that doesn't actually make sense when it comes to the policies the president is pursuing. He is trying to cut taxes. He's trying to reduce the amount of revenue that the American public can work with at a time when we're seeing all of these natural disasters. He just had an interview about Puerto Rico and the devastation there.

We should be increasing revenues. We should be increasing taxes on wealthy corporations and making them pay their fair share. That's not what this president is calling for. This president is calling for cutting taxes. And at the same time, he is talking about all of the record profits that these corporations are making.

And I also, want to pick a fight a little bit with Stephen there about pensions. It would be great if this administration was in favor of pensions, in favor of workers, in favor of labor, but they're not. They're trying to make things harder for workers. Make things harder for people to have pensions.

And also, a lot of times when companies have record profits what they do is they buy back their stock. They don't invested in their workers. They don't raise wages. They don't increase jobs. They buy back stock, Wells Fargo, it has been in the news for millions and millions of fake accounts. They just announced an $11.5 billion stock buyback. So, a lot of times when these companies profit they just handed back to their investors. That's not helping the American public. And it's certainly not lowering the deficit.

MOORE: Well, remember, Alexis, when the company buys back the stocks, what happens to the values of the shares of the stock that are owned by the American people. They go up. That's what they're trying to do, is increase the value of the stocks that are held by millions of people.

GOLDSTEIN: But 57 percent of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings. 50 percent of Americans are invested in the stock market, you're talking about half of Americans do not have a dog in that fight.

MOORE: And that's a big problem. I think you and I agree on that. We need to get more and more Americans owning a piece of the rock in America so that everyone does better. I mean, that's actually one of the points, Alexis, of the tax cut. I helped write that tax plan for Donald Trump. We want to create more jobs in America. We want to bring a lot of those factories and businesses that left the United States, that have companies like Burger King and Medtronic, and other major manufacturers that have left the United States. Brooke, we want to bring those companies back to America, make the tax code a lot more competitive, and that does help the working-class Americans.

GOLDSTEIN: But we've done this before. In 2004, what you're talking about repatriation in trying to encourage people to bring taxes overseas. There was a congressional research service report that shows what happened after that happened in 2004 is that tens of thousands of jobs were cut and 90 cents on every dollar brought back went to shareholders, wealthy investors. Investors that sometimes don't even live in the United States. This was not going back into the coffers of the American people. It wasn't going to increase wages. It wasn't going to research and development. It was going to make shareholders more wealthy, which would make the shareholders happy. Because they would give big bonuses to the CEOs. BALDWIN: OK. I'm listening to both of you. I know, Stephen, the debates are fine, the false claims not so much, and I'm going to leave it there, Stephen and Alexis, thank you both so very much.

MOORE: Thank you.

GOLDSTEIN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, New York police launch a criminal investigation into Harvey Weinstein as the movie mogul goes to rehab. We're going to talk about sex addition here. We are going to be joined live by a sex addiction expert and an attorney to discuss where this goes from here.


BALDWIN: A major development here in the growing case against Harvey Weinstein as more and more women are publicly accusing the Hollywood mogul of sexual harassment and abuse. The New York police department has now launched an investigation into his accusers criminal allegations with planned to interview these women identified in the "New Yorker" article that broke the story.

So, Douglas Weiss is with me. He is the president of the American Association for Sex Addiction Therapy. And criminal defense attorney, Yodit Tewolde, is here as well. So, great to have both of you on and Douglas, you first. This is a man accused of horrendous things, including three cases of rape. We're reporting that he is going to some sort of rehab or counselling. One would presume perhaps it sex addiction counseling. My question is, I mean, does that cover it all? This isn't sex --


BALDWIN: This is isn't sex addition were talking about. This is assault.

[16:20:01] WEISS: It may be sex addiction might have influenced his behavior, but most sex addicts don't rape. They don't hurt. They don't violate women in the way that this man has been accused of doing. Most sex addicts are online, they are with themselves, they're cheating. Here, the heart of our counseling center in Colorado Springs, we have people fly from all over the world and get successful help. And I've been doing that for over 30 years working with sex addicts, most do not commit crimes like this. So, there are people who are addicted --

BALDWIN: So, what kind of rehab would he need, Douglas?

WEISS: Well, he's going to need -- first he's going to need a lawyer. But as far as dealing with his inner personal stuff, he's going to need to be in a rehab that deals with -- I don't know him, he might have multiple addictions, alcohol, drugs, sex might be one of the addictions. He'd be in support groups. He'd have to deal with whatever issues are causing the pain. Because someone has to be in some kind of pain to create this kind of pain in other people's lives. This is someone who might see someone as an object and needs to become human again. To see women as people and as precious. I mean, the courage it took for these women is huge, and these are brave women.

BALDWIN: Yes. I'm going to come back, I have more for you. To you, we know, as we mentioned, the New York police department is launching investigations into this slew of new claims. They're looking at old files trying to see if there were any complaints that maybe they missed. What does that signal to you?

YODIT TEWOLDE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, in New York there's no statute of limitations for sexual assault and rape. And so, that's going to open the floodgates. Especially with this 2004 case that they're looking at where a woman accused Weinstein of forcing him to have oral copulation. And so, that may give rise to an aggravated sexual assault. And again, there is no statute of limitations.

Now that so many women are coming forward, that can actually help her -- help the prosecution if they wanted to bring charges, bolster what she's saying. The accounts she's having because Weinstein seems to have a pattern of behavior. And so, with all of these women again coming forward, that's going to help corroborate one or two of these cases that may actually go forward. But in New York, I mean, it's a free for all, they don't have statute of limitations. So, they should absolutely go in and investigate these other claims.

BALDWIN: Which is huge. Douglas, back to you. If he is going to this rehab and let's say Harvey Weinstein finds himself in front of a therapist and he starts talking and telling stories and -- I don't know, coming -- to don't even want to say --

WEISS: You'd want to find out what type of -- if he has a sex addiction. I wrote a book called, "The Final Freedom." We talk about six types. You've got to go through his biological history. What was his pornography, his self-behavior, a psychological profile and parenting, abandonment, abuse, neglect? You've got to go through -- if he was sexually abused himself, because some offenders abuse, some don't. You need to find out if he has intimacy --

BALDWIN: Here's what I'm thinking about. Pardon the interruption. I'm thinking about the women, these accusers, and I'm thinking what if he admits to crimes, can the therapist report them?

WEISS: If he gives them specific information as to who and when and something that's reportable. Absolutely. The therapist is required to, if it involves a minor, now if it involves an adult --


WEISS: -- it would depend on the state. Now see, it would depend on the state or country he's in, and reporting laws that are in that state or country. So, we don't know where he's going yet, right?

BALDWIN: No, we don't. WEISS: So, depending on what the statutes are in that state would

determine what the psychologists or social workers would have to report.

BALDWIN: Yodit, what do you think?

TEWOLDE: You know, just in general, the statute of limitations, time limits, that kind of thing definitely affects a lot of the claims that can come forward. We saw with Bill Cosby. How many women came out against Bill Cosby and one only actually went to criminal court. And so, it's just going to take a lot of corroboration, cooperation from women. I'm just glad that they're coming out. I'm glad that they're speaking out. I'm glad that we're having this conversation. But I do you also want to emphasize that the court of public opinion also affects a potential jury pool. So, if this individual does get charged with a crime and we have a jury trial, the conversation and trying to put blame essentially on the women for not coming out or why are they now speaking out, this is not something we need to be focused on. We need to stop worry about what they didn't do and what Harvey Weinstein did.


WEISS: I think you're having two conversations.

BALDWIN: Amen. We're going to leave it with Yodit. Yes, no, Yodit, you hit the nail on the head, thank you so much. Douglas, thank you as well. We're going to move on.

WEISS: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, the White House Chief of Staff speaking quite candidly to reporters earlier this afternoon. Saying almost kind of jokingly, kind of not, that he's not leaving the White House. And also saying it's not his job to control the president. Stay with me.


After hurricane Maria devastated that island that FEMA and first responders will not be there forever.

BALDWIN: Just into us here at CNN, the first Republican on Capitol Hill to endorse Donald Trump's presidential bid -- I'm talking about New York Congressman Chris Collins -- is under investigation by the House Ethics Committee. The committee is looking for possible violations of federal law and house rules regarding insider trading. The investigations centers around information Collins may have shared concerning a drug maker whose board he serves on. There you have it. Congressman Collins there out of New York. I'm Brooke Baldwin, here in New York. Thank you so very much for being with me. We're going to send it to Washington, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.