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New York's Terror Attack Since 9/11; Easy Access Weapons for Terrorists; New York on Full Alert; No Leaks in Mueller's Team; New York Attacker Adds to Police Intel. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired November 1, 2017 - 03:00   ET



[03:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dead and injured were just is going about their days. It happened out of nowhere. I was walking down on the street. It was a normal day and just out of nowhere I see people, I see people running and screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People scream, they are running across the bridge over here. I saw and heard gunshots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then I saw a guy with guns with two guns. He's just running in the middle of the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The driver of the truck a 29-year-old male exited the vehicle brandishing two handguns. A paintball gun and a pellet gun were covered at the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This got to happen it's unfortunate and it happened in New York way too often.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was an act of terror a particularly cowardly act of terror.


MAX FOSTER, HOST, CNN: What we saw this hour our breaking news. I'm Max Foster, live for you in London.

The worst attack in New York City since 9/11. Eight people are being killed. A man plowed a rental truck and took popular bike path in Lower Manhattan while a dozen more were wounded. It could have been even worse though had he not crushed into a school bus halting his progress.

Once the suspect got out his vehicle this police officer, Ryan Nash shot and apprehended him. But there are more details on the suspect in just a moment.

But first I want to show these images of a city undeterred. A lively Halloween parade went on as planned just hours after the attack. New York's mayor and governor join the procession in a show of united defiance. And the patriotic display of red, white and blue lights on one of New York's most famous buildings one World Trade Center itself a monument of resilience in the face of terror.

We have a team of reporters covering all the angles. And our Shimon Prokupecz has the very latest on the investigation for you first.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, PRODUCER, CNN: Law enforcement officials tell us that the suspect has been identified as 29-year-old Uzbek national Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov. Authorities believe he came to the United States in 2010. And sources are telling me he has an address in Tampa, but he currently resides in New Jersey.

Now when the suspect got out of the Home Depot truck that was rented Tuesday he was shot by police in the abdomen. I'm told there was an exit wound and he was rushed into surgery. The police were able to speak with him as he was being brought into surgery.

The suspect is now out of surgery, but it's unclear what information's officials were able to get from him. But I can tell you that at this point it doesn't appear that he was on anyone's radar ahead of today's attack.

Back to you.

FOSTER: Well, now let's turn to our Brynn Gingras who has more on the investigation for you.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: I can see the Freedom Tower lit in red, white and blue. And then over my left shoulder there are more lights. Those are the investigators that is ongoing right now. Really just a block from where we are. And where that rental truck is still park while investigators and a lot of police officers are right now.

What happened here was horrific. That's how it's been described to me by both law enforcement who had been on the scene as well as witnesses. We know that about 3 o'clock in the afternoon this man who has been identified as Sayfullo Saipov, a 29-year-old, originally from Uzbekistan rented a truck in New Jersey and then came here onto the Manhattan side of New York City or the west side in New York City, drove that rental truck in the wrong direction for several blocks on a bike path mowing people over in the process.

The car, or truck, rather, finally came to a stop when colliding with a school bus. In all eight people were killed 11 injured on that school, four others injured two adults and two children.

We also know from law enforcement that that suspect Saipov he exited that truck holding what it looked like two guns, it turns out it was a BB gun and a paintball gun and then were shot by authorities and taken into custody or shot in the stomach and then brought to a nearby capital, where he is expected to survive and actually has had some communication with investigators.

A lot to say about this investigation. We're still learning about the victims. The people that were impacted by all of this, but the mayor, the governor of New York all sums it up saying this was a terror attack. Investigation so early though, and we'll continue to bring you more details. Back to you.

FOSTER: U.S president has offered his condolences and an official statement Donald Trump said in part, "My administration will provide full support to the New York City Police Department including through a joint investigation with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. We offer our thanks to the first responders who stop the suspect and rendered -- or rendered immediate aid to the victims of this cowardly attack. These brave men and women embody the true American spirit of resilience and courage."

[03:05:07] That was the official statement, but on Mr. Trump's Twitter account his tone was slightly different as Sara Murray explains.

SARA MURRAY, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN: President Trump responding on Tuesday to the horrific events that were unfolding in New York City. His first reaction shared via Twitter. He said, "In NYC it looks like another attack by a very sick and deranged person. Law enforcement is following closely. Not in the USA."

The president followed that by saying "We must not allow ISIS to return or enter our country after defeating them in the Middle East and elsewhere. Enough." And he follow that with yet a third tweet to share his condolences. "My thoughts and condolences and prayers to the victims and families of the New York City terrorist attack. God and your country are with you."

The president weighing in on a terror attack that occurred in his hometown and on a date when the first lady Melania Trump happened to be in New York City for a series of meetings. She also took to Twitter to say her heart was breaking for New York City and to share her thoughts and prayers.

Sara Murray, CNN, the White House.

FOSTER: This attack -- this attack unfolded with devastation speed to Hudson area of Manhattan, that's populated with people out for peaceful walk or allegedly bicycle ride.

Tom Foreman looks at just how the brutal attack of terror unfolded.

TOM FOREMAN, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Six to eight thousand bicyclist today travels along the Hudson River on this trail. It is built as the busiest bike path in America and that's not counting all of the pedestrians on it.

Officials say this is where the attack unfolded from Houston Street down almost to Freedom Tower or the site of the former World Trade Center. It started at 3.05 in the afternoon that's when police said the truck pulled off of the West Side Highway here and on to this bike path accelerating rapidly, zooming along.

The path is paved and easily wide enough to accommodate a vehicle so it will be very little to slow him down and considering how many people you typically see out here on a nice afternoon is rather remarkable. More were not injured and how far he made it. In any event down in this area.

It's not clear if he was trying to pull off of this road or get back into traffic or escape into the city, but somehow there's a big collision right here with a bus and when that happens his vehicle was disabled.

He got out, he had this pellet, he had this paint gun, according to police, he was waving them around and moving through the street and then a very short distance away that's where he was shot by the police.

How long did all this take beginning to end, the map says it could not have been very long. This rental truck that he had from over in New Jersey had a big V-8 engine in it. Again, there were no big concrete barriers or anything at any points to slow him down, so the distance slightly under a mile. Even at 60 miles an hour. That attacker lasted less than a minute.

FOSTER: We are getting a better understanding now about just how chaotic this attack was from the people who saw what actually happen. John Williams have arrived on the scene 30 seconds after the gunshot started.


JOHN WILLIAMS, WITNESS: It happened out of nowhere. I was walking down on the street. It was a normal day. And just out of nowhere I hear -- I see people -- I see people running and screaming and just multiple gunshots one after another.


FOSTER: And then later he also spoke to CNN's Erin Burnett about what he saw.


WILLIAMS: So I first for there and it was just the whole everything, it's just the smell of burning gunpowder just really stuck out of my mind. But then I saw one man who was lying face first on the ground. I believe he was the suspect. He was looking to being in pain. It would make sense that he was...


ERIN BURNETT, HOST, CNN: He was shot in the abdomen.

WILLIAMS: ... shot in the abdomen. Yes. I also saw another man who is next to him who the police were putting him in handcuffs. He wasn't resisting or anything like that. He was on his knees, he had his hands behind his head. Everything seems fine so I'm not sure who that man was.

This was all about 20 feet away from the Home Depot pick-up truck.

BURNETT: Which at that point is mangled. WILLIAMS: Yes. The entire front of it is completely pushed in, there is smoke coming out of it.


FOSTER: Well, we have two expert with us now. Will Geddes, the managing director of International Corporate Protection, and Sajjan Gohel, international security director of the Asia-Pacific Foundation. He is joining us on the phone.

Will, to start with you, this sort of attacks have been pretty common, haven't they, in Europe but rare in the U.S.

WILL GEDDES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CORPORATE PROTECTION: You know, certainly they have been and I think America has been quite fortunate in avoiding these attacks until now. Because inevitably this is now become pretty much a template for Islamic state and for extremist to carry out this attacks because for the very simple reasons. They're very simple to implement and very difficult to intercept.

[03:09:56] FOSTER: Sajjan, we understand the suspect from Uzbekistan. Give us a bit of background there in the history of carrying attacks out in terms of terror, or rather, you know, groups in there getting involve in terror.

OK. Will, unfortunately we can't speak to Sajjan because we've lost the line there. But how often have you dealt with citizens from Uzbekistan with these types of incident?

GEDDES: Well, Uzbekistan has got quite a long history and there's a lot of issues in Central Asia in terms of it's not only extremism, particularly sort of joint cultivators. We've seen certainly in the northern presence and north Sahara states of Africa.

And certainly this is something which is we've seen previously with Al Qaeda in terms of being indoctrination or recruitment of individuals obviously is the cause. But Islamic state and Islamic extremism has been there for some quite some considerable time.

Now, inevitably it's quite difficult to be able to detect and certainly be able to utilize all systems like we have in the United Kingdom or in Europe or the United States for that matter to be able to document ad record individuals that could be associates.

So, it's very difficult to prevent in terms of those that are being recruited in certainly that part of the world.

FOSTER: And Uzbekistan is not on the list of countries, isn't it, covered by Trump's travel ban. Do you think he should consider that, do you think he is likely to consider that now?

GEDDES: Well, I think he probably will. I mean, I think what we put on this is inevitably going to be some kneejerk reaction by the president because that tends to seeing to be part of the fold in a way for these instances. However, I think one is going to be cautious here. We're looking at

the profile of this particular perpetrator and he does fit in with the very standard norms to a certain extent and I use the word standard very, very loosely. But in terms of the demographic of individuals that we're seeing, but most importantly the fact that he's been apprehended and he's still alive that is really important.

Because that will be an intelligence treasure throve for the authorities to try to understand the larger network and certainly associations and radicalization process to helping the...


FOSTER: I think we -- hopefully we can now speak to Sajjan. And hopefully you can hear me, Sajjan. I just want to ask you a bit more about what we know about the background about this suspect. As far as we can see as we understand it, I mean, minor traffic offenses in his past. We understand he was an Uber driver, no complaints made against him.

Does this suggest to you that he was a more strategic terrorist rather than a kneejerk one? This is something that he's considered for a while.

SAJJAN GOHEL, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, this is something that the FBI in conjunction with the joint terrorism task force is going to have to decipher now, Max. And what's also very important is that this individual seems to be from Uzbekistan and we've seen throughout this year a number of attacks across the world involving Uzbekistan claimed responsibility on behalf of ISIS, whether they were directed or assisted by them.

You had the Istanbul nightclub bombing at the start of the year. There was also the vehicle attack in Stockholm, Sweden. And there have been some other incidents the New York one being the latest example.

Now the fact is that there are some 4,000 central Asians that joined ISIS, about 1,500 are from Uzbekistan and there has been concern that ISIS have been tapping into the pool of recruitment with Uzbeks that have been based in Europe and in North America and that is something that is potentially now a concern because we're seeing a potential path in their module.

FOSTER: We need to careful, though, presumably because he's lived in U.S. for several years now. Could it be argued that he's a home-grown terrorist as supposed to someone that was radicalized before he came into the country?

GOHEL: Well, as terrorism evolving from the fact that previously you had people that went abroad to Iraq and Syria for terrorist training. A lot of individual are being recruited from within the countries that they are based so you come used the term home grown terrorist or lone wolf.

But in many ways there is still a component involved in radicalizing those individuals, many of them have been recruited online through encrypted messaging, through the dark web from ISIS' intelligence operator known as M.E. that prey on people you give them guidance, suggestions and tactics and targets.

And we've seen those examples in some of the attacks in Europe, and unfortunately, we've seen some cases in North America too. It's yet to the theme whether that fit in to what took place in Manhattan. But certainly we're seeing a pattern emerge in terms of their online recruitment that's taking place. And Uzbeks are featured in that targeting by ISIS.

[03:14:57] FOSTER: And Will, we're looking images which we believe are of the suspect being apprehended. He was carrying paintball gun or not a real gun as far as we understand it. Does that suggest to you it was a suicide mission and what do you think he was thinking there.

GEDDES: I don't know. It's a difficult one to call, Max. The fact that he had two replica guns, one was believed to be a paintball gun, the other is pellet gun. And although replica are the firearms are somewhat prohibited with New York State. This individual came from Florida where the access to firearms is greatly easier. And certainly to obtain a license to purchase firearms is not difficult.

It's a curious one, Max. And I think again the authorities will be looking very deeply at this when they're interviewing the perpetrator to determine why in particular he used this replica weapons. Because to transport a firearm from Florida to New York would not be difficult.

FOSTER: Sajjan, we understand a note was left in the vehicle. This is something that ISIS have recommended, isn't it, more recently when people are carrying out attacks?

GOHEL: Well, some people they have carried out attacks and perhaps ISIS have left a note or they've left a flag that is replica of the ISIS flag. What's also interesting is the timing of the attack on Halloween. ISIS had actually called for its followers to carry out attacks on that day specifically.

And we know that Halloween especially in America it's a very big event, a lot of people are out. Now this individual in itself has carried out what we've seen very commonly throughout this year which is a vehicle attack targeting pedestrian focusing on an area where there are no physical obstacles.

So this is again something that we're seeing that a pattern is emerging in terms of the tactics in terms of the targeting and even in the deliverance of the message in which this individual has claimed responsibility on behalf of ISIS. And no doubt ISIS will try to take credit for this as well, whether they've been directing it or assisting it any oxygen of publicity for them, any notoriety is still new that they want to keep and seize and take hold off.

FOSTER: Yes. We're waiting to hear from ISIS. It's often the case that they take a day or two to sales is respond. We'll wait and see what they do come out with.

Thanks both of you Sajjan and Will. We'll be back with you after the break as well for more on the New York terror attack. Do stay with us.


FOSTER: The light to one World Trade Center have turned red, white, and blue attributes to the eight people who were killed on the bicycle path near the building on the site of the 9/11 terror attack.

[03:20:01] New York's governor call for the center to be lit up in honor of freedom and the democracy. The city has heeded Mayor Bill de Blasio's call to go about life as usual going ahead with the annual Halloween parade and celebrations.

Our Jason Carroll has more on the mood there in New York.

JASON CARROLL, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: A really striking contrast to what we saw downtown at the crime scene versus what we're seeing here along Sixth Avenue where folks have come out to celebrate the Halloween parade. As you can see though, a number of police are out here as promised. The governor and the mayor telling folks to come out that there would be a heavy police presence. We have seen some of that and they did talk about additional security measures including more heavily armed officers, especially key points along the parade route, more blocker vehicles.

Those are vehicles that are set up to block some of the streets feeding into the parade route and send trucks as well to block the route. But again, what we've seen out here in addition to that are a number of folks coming out here like you see behind me just celebrate and have a good time. Some of them are saying that they actually safer here along the parade route in New York City where they knew there would be a heavy police presence.

And some of them are also echoing what we hear from the mayor saying that they wanted to come out and not let the terrorists win.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

FOSTER: Still to come, President Trump says it's time to step up America's extreme vetting program in the wake of New York's terror attack. And.


ANDREW CUOMO, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: We're not going to allow the terrorists to win.




ALISON KOSIK, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: ... of the world (AUDIO GAP) where the two towers had gone down on September 11, 2001. And tonight, it is lit up in red, white, and blue. The Governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo asking one World Trade to light

up the top in honor of democracy and freedom. And tonight that building stands tall kind of looking over where New York City's latest terror attack has taken place.

FOSTER: Well, as Alison just mentioned authorities say the suspect rented a Home Depot truck to carry out his attack this despite a counterterrorism created to prevent that very thing.


JOHN MILLER, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: We did extensive outreach to the truck rental business. We visited over 148 truck rental locations in this area, the obvious ones U-Haul, Ryder, Home Depot, et cetera and talk about suspicious indicators ways to come forward, so the industry has had a high level of awareness on this matter from the NYPD.


FOSTER: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz tells us how authorities are reacting to the news of the suspect's truck rental.

PROKUPECZ: I was actually talking to a law-enforcement official about that, I mean, they're perplexed because the NYPD since 9/11 has spent a lot of time working with the local community, local businesses, hotels, truck companies, hardware stores, going to them quite often, saying if you see anything suspicious let us know.

They have special program dedicated to that so that the owners, the workers of these hardware stores places like Home Depot can call them directly very quickly. There's just a number they call, they answer and they response to almost every possible threat anything suspicious they responded.

It's one of the best programs that the NYPD has. Usually what happens if the truck company is suspicious about or Home Depot or whatever hardware store may be suspicious they will usually delay may be renting something or selling someone something where they may just flatly deny it and then they would call the NYPD, the intelligence division and the intelligence division would then respond and investigate.

FOSTER: Well, we've seen vehicles being turned into weapons in nine terror attack in recent years.

CNN's Brian Todd tells about some of those instances and what's behind this distressing trend.

BRIAN TODD, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: This is become one of the most disturbing tactics from terrorists in recent years because these weapons, the rental trucks the other vehicle they are so easy to procure, they can strike with no warning.

Four law enforcement sources, as we been reporting, telling CNN witnesses reporting the suspect in New York was yelling "allahu akbar" as he exited his vehicle. This now and for every appearance now appears to be at least the fourth major high profile terror attack just this year using vehicles and inflicting multiple casualties.

August 17, a van plowed through a crowd of people in a popular tourist district in Barcelona, Spain. This horrifying video capture some of the aftermath there. Thirteen people killed about 100 injured in that attack. ISIS claim responsibility.

Now two days later in a coastal city about 60 miles from here attackers drove an Audi Sedan into several pedestrians killing one person. Then in June, seven people killed in two terror attacks in central London. It began when a van swerved into throngs of pedestrians on London Bridge. The suspect then jumped out of the van went on foot to a nearby market area indiscriminately slashing people with knives.

[03:30:05] Police shot and killed three suspects at least 48 people were injured in that attack. Previously in March of this year a man drove an SUV into a crowd along the sidewalk along the Westminster Bridge in London. He killed at least four people just at that spot. He then rammed the car into a barrier outside the parliament building, exited the vehicle, and stabbed a police officer to death.

That attacker who officials later said may have had connections to violent extremism was gunned down by a police officer. Last year you had two absolutely horrific attacks. December 19, the Tunisian man drove a tractor-trailer into a Christmas market in Berlin. He killed 12 people, get out and flees the scene. He is killed by police in Italy four days later. Hours after he died ISIS released a video of him pledging allegiance to the terror group.

And on Bastille Day in Nice, France, July 14th of last year, an attack which brought the most carnage that we've seen in a long time for these types of attacks. A man drove a 20-ton rental truck into a crowd celebrating that holiday in Nice. Eighty-four 84 people at least were killed in that attack.

Now the attacker was shot and killed by police but not before he'd driven about a mile through that crowd. Investigators said the attacker was a Tunisian national who became radicalized very quickly by ISIS propaganda before the attack that assist to run down of the vehicular attacks. The high profile particular attacks just over the past year or so.

FOSTER: We'll probably more hear of course with us is Will Geddes, the managing director of International Corporate Protection, Sajjan Gohel, international security director of the Asia-Pacific Foundation who is joining us as you can see on the phone, also with us is Jacob Parakilas, deputy head of the U.S. and the Americas program at Chatham House.

And as we saw here in London among these attacks, Jacob, you know, the victims are foreigners, they're not nationals, are they, but does that play into the narrative crisis?

JACOB PARAKILAS, ASSISTANT PROJECT DIRECTOR, CHATHAM HOUSE: Well, I think it's sort of depends a lot on the - where the location of the attack is. I mean, the location is often chosen for symbolic value right outside parliament, right outside of the World Trade Center.

FOSTER: But not necessary a psychopath.

PARAKILAS: Not necessarily a psychopath but sort of general area of the city and also points to how massively international the target cities often are. New York, London, these are cities where, you know, there are huge number of tourists, there are foreign workers, there are lot of people who aren't necessarily native to the country they're from, so the victims are necessarily going to represent a huge slice of the world.

FOSTER: Sajjan, who use to attacked on them?

SAJJAN GOHEL, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, the first goal for any that may be connected to ISIS is to inflict harm on civilians, it's to strike at the government of those countries to create social, economic, and political consequences. And the other goal is to create disruption, in addition to killing, injuring, maiming people creating disruption, creating paralysis is another aspect.

So unfortunately, in this occasion all those boxes in many ways have been checked because what ISIS wants to do if this is again connected to them and we have to put that asterisk on there is that they want to create those social tensions, they want to create that backlash, as their so-called caliphate and their physical landmark can track.

They are encouraging followers to carry out more attacks whether they directed or assisted and those attacks are designed to hurt the country, create a psychological backlash and also to make people feel insecure about their security.

FOSTER: The investigation, Will, does look as though it's looking at ISIS is the most likely sort of inspiration here at least, and we do need to remember the fact that Raqqa has just fallen, isn't it. They have lost their caliphate effectively, so what does this tell us about where ISIS stands now if indeed they are responsible here.

WILL GEDDES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CORPORATE PROTECTION: Well, I mean, there are obviously a number of facts, Max, that we're aware of, obviously there are returning Jihadist that are getting back to their countries of origin which is obviously a concern for those local authorities.

In terms of obviously the Islamic state link to these attacks they are very often very tenuous. They are a soldier by Islamic state who are inspired by Islamic state. It's known as we saw conventionally with Al Qaeda, for example, where obviously a far more lenient connected to the network i many regards.

In terms of the investigation it's going to be interesting. I think anytime that you actually captured that both traits are relied is going to be a fantastic intelligence finally to the authorities. One of the hardest problems is I think all of your other guest would collectively agree on is the counter radicalization process that's trying to intercept that radicalization for these individuals.

[03:34:59] They have not spent time in Raqqa or in Iraq or Syria for that matter. They are being radicalized in their own backyards, their own backbones, if you like. That's the big challenge, so having the perpetrator now to draw intelligence from will be grateful.

FOSTER: Jacob, every time we have on this instance we talk about what can be done to prevent further ones. Well, what's quite frightening about this one is that actually the U.S. or New York authorities had gone a long way at looking at potential ways of reducing a chance of truck attacks. We're just hearing there about the reporting about going this to the rental, for example, and that hasn't worked.

Are we in the point now where we can't protect ourselves against this?

PARAKILAS: I don't know, I mean, you can't protect yourself against every attack. The whole point of what security agencies do is to try to raise the bar to make it more difficult. I think you know, making it more difficult to rent very large trucks. If you look at the difference in the casualty count between the Nice attack and something like this, I mean, the size of the vehicle really does make a difference.

So you can mitigate, and of course, you know the security agencies will have prevented a number of attacks for everyone to get through. So it's always a question not of preventing every single attack, not of making the world 100 percent safe but sort of see what can be done to make it more difficult and when attacks happen to make them more -- to make them less effective.

FOSTER: Sajjan, we often, you know, we'll find out where are we in a few days' time that perhaps the skywalks on the intelligence radar that always the case, isn't it, when we report on these incidents. But so far they haven't found anything on him. So it does seem as though he slipped through the net.

GOHEL: Well, there are people that have not attracted attention. There are occasions when there are some, especially in Europe that may be on the intelligence radar because of previous comments that they've made or affiliations some groups that skirted the law that more necessarily banned but certainly were making threatening noises about democracy and security and stability.

But there are also many individual that are getting radicalized through the internet through encrypted messaging by dialogue with ISIS handlers and recruiters.

So it's important to ascertain this individual background the people he's associated with. The authorities may be able to get some information but you will also find that there are gaps especially if they have been using what I've been mentioning about those encrypted messaging the dark web in communicating with certain people, that is often very hard to find enough information connecting to a physical network.

But there may certainly be a virtual network which the authorities would necessarily been aware of.

FOSTER: Will, what do you think we can learn from this particular attack because it does have so many parallels with others we've had and we haven't been able to, you know, this is the new way of targeting people, isn't it? It's very difficult to, you know, you can't ban trucks. You can't ban vehicles. You can't ban people from cycling. I mean, what can we actually learn from this?

GEDDES: Well, I mean, again, that's the challenge, Max. And that's precisely why these individuals are using trucks and cars and vehicles to carry out these attacks. It is so easy. And while attacks are still being folded to though, they are going to continue to utilize them.

And when we see in the landscape here in London change drastically obviously since the attacks that we suffered in terms of the protective measures and counter measures around main buildings, public areas, and particularly on bridges. I think what is interesting though and certainly hoping that will help on the investigation is that the perpetrator was an Uber driver and work for what understandably so the company is actually working with the authorities.

The media will provide certainly some of that metadata or certainly some assistance in metadata to tell him what we call a pattern of life. With any terrorist there will be some pattern and cycle even if they are getting in a car or driving out there will be some elements within their pattern and cycle.

And all these pieces of information contributing together are going to assist and that will assist and obviously hopefully trying to find the best way to prevent it, and as one of your other guest said you'll never going to get 100 percent security. We know that in that stage and obvious. But what you can't do is trying to pinch them into a more restricted environment and make it far less easy for them.

Because what can we do with terrorist, they are always going to look at the part of resistance.

FOSTER: OK. Will, thank you very much, also Sajjan for joining us today with your analysis. Jacob is going to stay with us because some aides are telling President Trump to go easy on special counsel leading the Russian investigation, while others are telling him to do just the opposite. Which statue did the president choose, we'll show you next.


FOSTER: Well, President Trump is cooperating for now with the special counsel who has delivered the first charges in the investigation to Russia's meddling in the U.S. election. It seems the president isn't following the advice of his former chief justice Steve Bannon here on the left. He told Mr. Trump to take a tougher approach against special counsel Robert Mueller.

But now the White House is confirming prosecutors will interview one of the president's closest aide, his communications director Hope Hicks. Our Athena Jones has more from the White House.

ATHENA JONES, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Hi, there. Much of the focus here at the White House continues to be on this investigation by special counsel Bob Mueller and questions surrounding that. There are also questions about comments Chief of Staff John Kelly made about Confederate war General Robert E. Lee.

On the matter of George Papadopoulos the White House is continuing to try to downplay the role that Papadopoulos played in the Trump campaign.

On Monday we heard White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders used the word volunteer or some form of that word some 10 times to describe this foreign policy advisor. She continued to do so on Tuesday.

We also heard from a Trump ally Michael Caputo who was a senior advisor to the campaign calling Papadopoulos a coffee boy, essentially saying he was an inconsequential errand boy. But remember this was a foreign policy advisor, he may have been young but he served in a role -- in the role of foreign policy advisor to the campaign and he had access to more than one high-level campaign official.

These were not one off e-mail exchanges, some of these were ongoing conversations that is what we've learned from the court documents associated with his guilty plea. His plea he admitted to lying to the FBI.

On the matter of John Kelly, Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked or came out in defense of Kelly who called Robert E. Lee an honorable man. Here is some of what she had to say during the briefing.


SARAH HUCKABEE-SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, all of our leaders have flaws, Washington, Jefferson, JFK, Roosevelt, Kennedy, that doesn't diminish their contributions for our country and it certainly can't erase them from our history. And General Kelly was simply making the point that just because history isn't perfect doesn't mean that it's not our history.

I don't know that, I mean, I get into debating the Civil War but I do know that many historians including Shelby Foote and Ken Burns famous Civil War documentary agree that a failure to compromise was the cause of the Civil War.

There a lot of historians that think that and there are a lot of different versions of those compromises.


JONES: And after Sarah Sanders mentioned the Ken Burns Civil War documentary in defending Kelly statement that a lack of compromise is what led to the Civil War. Ken Burns himself tweeted "Many factors contributed to the Civil War one caused it slavery." And one more point here we've been expecting congressional republicans

to formally unveil their tax proposal as soon as Wednesday. Now according to two GOP sources that plan is going to be delayed, one source is saying because of unexpected, unresolved issues.

Back to you.

FOSTER: Well, Jacob is still with us because there are some knew. What are your thoughts on Mueller's strategy here with this investigation and what he's doing.

[03:45:03] PARAKILAS: I think what he's doing so far, I mean, to be clear, there are a lot of things that we don't know about what he's doing. Mueller is running one of the few places in Washington that it isn't leaking at the moment.

The fact that Papadopoulos was arrested in July, he pled in the beginning of October, and the first indication anyone had of any of this was the documentations release yesterday I think or sorry, -- Monday, I think is an indication of how tight the ship he's running.

So, everything that we say about Mueller's investigation is based on the very little but has been done publicly so far and sort of supposition based on things outside the investigation. So with that caveat, I mean, it's clear that he's trying to put a lot of pressure on Manafort coming after him and Rick Gates with a whole range of primarily financial charges which could result in, you know, upwards of 10 years of jail time, some millions of dollars of fines.

I mean, it's not, it's not a small sort of approach that they're making. It's a very, very aggressive strategy.

FOSTER: Because he won't deal with them.

PARAKILAS: I think what he's trying to do is to pressure Manafort into some kind of cooperation with this inquiry. Now what kind of cooperation though, is what Manafort actually has to say, what sort of, you know, potential upshot of all that is. Again, is in that category of things that we are looking at it from the outside just don't know.

But I think it's pretty clear that releasing those two things on the same day, the Manafort and Gates' arrest and Papadopoulos the plea deal, Mueller is very clear with things, sort of on the hand if you cooperate I will go gently and if you don't cooperate I will be very, very hard on you.

FOSTER: What do you understand Papadopoulos his position was on the campaign because as you understand he was just a tea boy from what we're hearing then.

PARAKILAS: A coffee boy I think.

FOSTER: Yes. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK) PARAKILAS: Yes. American-British...

FOSTER: Undersizing it.

PARAKILAS: But I mean, Papadopoulos wasn't I think a steadfast essential figure in the campaign but he was one of the five people Trump released as his initial list of foreign policy advisers. He was in a -- there's a photograph released by the Trump campaign showing him Jeff Sessions, Trump and various others in a national security meeting.

So I don't think it's fair to say that he was completely insignificant figure, and I think we're getting a sense that he sort of further he was trying to contact the Russians. Now what the campaign's response to that is still a little bit clear, but we do know from other evidence is the fact that Trump Junior and Manafort and Kushner were on the meeting with a Russian lawyer receiving the same sort of information.

There was clearly something more to it than just Papadopoulos saying, you know, I've had these conversations and nothing else happened.

FOSTER: And also his contacts are very questionable we're learning as well, aren't we, from the U.K. media and what their report on this.

PARAKILAS: Yes. I mean, it's, you know, there's been some reporting on who his contacts were. You know, the question of how well tied in those contacts actually are to the Russian state intelligence services I think is still an open one. So, I mean, I do little cautious about sort of trying to figure out what exactly that relationship was.

But I think it's pretty clear that he thought that he could link up...


PARAKILAS: Russia and Trump.

FOSTER: And the intention was there.

PARAKILAS: And the intention was there to link up Trump and Russian government during the campaign.

FOSTER: OK. Jacob, as ever, thank you very much indeed. More on our breaking news in just a moment including more stories and the people who witness the New York attack.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard several gunshots. I went there about six go off. I thought maybe it was a joke, it's Halloween, something is going on but something is actually new it was more than just that.


[03:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) FOSTER: Welcome back. World leaders have sent well wishes and condolences to New York after eight people are killed i Manhattan on Tuesday, that includes former President Barack Obama. He tweeted "Michelle and I are thinking of the victims of today's attack in NYC and everyone who keeps us safe. New Yorkers are as tough as they can."

The French President Emmanuel Macron tweeted "I convey my emotion and the solidarity of France, the New York City and the U.S. our fight for freedom united us more than ever. Hash tag, Manhattan."

The Australian foreign minister urges her citizens to reach out.


JULIE BISHOP, AUSTRALIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If you're worried about friends and relatives or loved ones in New York, please make sure you try to contact them and if you are unable to do so then call out the Department of Foreign Affairs and try their hotline.


FOSTER: Well, London Mayor Sadig Khan tweeted, "London in grief and solidarity with the great city of New York tonight."

Barcelona's mayor wrote, "On behalf of the city of Barcelona we send our solidarity and support to New York, our sister city. We must stand together. Hash tag, cities are for peace."

Well, Jean Casarez joins us now from New York with the very latest on the investigation. First of all, what's the atmosphere like there the morning after.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: I think the atmosphere is quiet because we are basically in the middle of the night but the police presence around this entire city is extreme. And law enforcement has told everyone to be vigilant that they believe that this suspect acted alone but if you see something say something. That is the motto and that is I think what everyone is doing.

We do have more information this morning on the victims. Eight people lost their lives in this terror attack yesterday, at least 11 were injured. We do not know how many remain at the hospital. But of those that lost their lives five of them were citizens of Argentina. They were here together celebrating in New York City their 30th high school reunion.

We also know there was one Belgian national that lost their life. We do not know the identities of the other two victims. But we have learned a little bit more about the suspect in this case, he is an Uzbekistan national, 29 years old, his name Sayfullo Saipov. He is in a local hospital. He underwent surgery last night and we were able to confirm with law-enforcement they spoke with him before he went into surgery.

What they ask him, what he said or what he did not say we do not know. But here's what we do know. It was yesterday and several hours before the 3.05 p.m. attack it is believed that this suspect rented a flat bread U-Haul truck in New Jersey drove over to here in New York City, began driving southbound on the West Side Highway in the same direction as bicyclists were bicycling pedestrians were walking and started mowing down people as he drove.

He ended up hitting a school bus injuring two adults and two students. At that point he got out of the truck brandishing two weapons and that is when New York Police Department in that precinct shot him in the abdomen, not killing him but severely injuring him.

Those two weapons turned out to be a paintball gun and a pellet gun not known obviously at the time. But also it is believed that he said before he was apprehended by police "allahu akbar." And there was a note found in the truck a lead -- alleging that he was doing this in the name of ISIS.

So, at this point, those are the facts that we know, a little more about him. He was a truck driver. He also currently was an Uber driver here in New Jersey. Uber says he was employed only for New Jersey. He had gotten in trouble with the law a bit minor offenses, misdemeanors, traffic offenses.

He was married in 2013 in Ohio to a woman who was also Uzbekistan national, we do not know at this point her whereabouts.

Back to you.

FOSTER: Jean, I appreciated your reporting. Thank you very much indeed. And the latest images as well coming into us as you saw on the screen there, the vehicle as it lies there in New York. Eyewitnesses have been sharing their accounts of this deadly attack. Here's part of Anderson Cooper's interview with Ruben Cabrera. He shot video of the scene.


[03:54:59] ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN: When did you realize something was happening?

RUBEN CABRERA, WITNESS: I was sitting in front of BMCC, the basketball court over there. I was sitting upfront. I heard several gunshots. I want to say about six go off. And I knew something was on that. First I saw kids running away. I thought it was maybe it was a joke, it's Halloween that something is going on.

But something is actually new it was more than just -- in fact, I've heard of gunshot before, so me and my cousin started walking over to see what was going on. And there's I guess you call that overpass over the West Side Highway. And we walk up there and from up there I can see a pickup truck. Another man laying down the ground as EMS was trying to help him.

COOPER: Was he one of the bicyclists?

CABRERA: I don't know what he was.


CABRERA: He wasn't on the bicycle lane, he was on the opposite side of the bicycle lane.


CABRERA: So, I saw them trying to help him and then when I look over to other side of the bicycle lane I saw two people laying down the floor covered with sheets and their bicycle is next to them and what appeared to be like their bicycle were run over because you can see that they weren't right. You can see something hit the bicycle.

COOPER: The vehicle itself and I know you took the video which obviously smashed in the front. Did you ever see the person get out of the vehicle or person who had been driving?

CABRERA: No. By the time I got there it was pretty much I guess what I would say the aftermath.

COOPER: Right.

CABRERA: Because their shots were already off, everything was standby by the time I got there. The police responded. It took me maybe two or three minutes to walk over there, the police were the ones that's o scene.

COOPER: You're a criminal justice student, you've gone to the college down here to study that and to actually see this up close what is it like?

CABRERA: It's different. I've never seen something of this magnitude happened. I mean, I've heard of shootings but I've never actually seen one. And to see one and to see how are the firefighters, the EMS, NYPD responded to some of the victims (Ph) they were so quick. I was a half block away and there was already fire trucks, ambulance, cop cars already there. I mean, it took me three minutes to walk just down there, I would say two or three minutes.

COOPER: Does it make you frightened?

CABRERA: No. Because I know I live in New York City where unfortunately this happened and maybe not here in this section but this happened all over New York from I've lived here all of my life, it's 22 years.

COOPER: Life goes on.

CABRERA: Life goes on. It's sad that it happened. I don't know there's people who, you know, were killed or injured. I hope the people who are injured do well, but it's unfortunate and it happened in New York way too often.

COOPER: Well, thank you very much for talking to us. I appreciate it.


FOSTER: Eyewitness there at the New York attack. Thank you for watching. I'm Max Foster. In the next hour we'll continue our breaking news coverage and what happened over there in Manhattan.