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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD
Random Shooting; Shocking Payback? Caught on Camera; Shocking Arrest; CNN Heroes; One More Thing. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 2, 2017 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, PRIMETIME JUSTICE: Wound up and unleashed on this poor officer and how long it took and then what she got.
"Primetime Justice" starts right now. Pulled over for speeding. It`s the epic meltdown breaking the internet.
OFFICER GARY SHORT, ULSTER POLICE: How you`re dong ma`am?
BANFIELD: Cue the excuses.
SHORT: Ma`am, you have to calm down.
JENNIFER SCHWARTZ BERKY, ULSTER COUNTY LEGISLATOR: I have PTSD.
BANFIELD: But that wasn`t the only reason she was making a scene.
BERKY: I have my job meeting and I`m going to lose my career.
BANFIELD: An then there was this --
BERKY: This is bad luck and I`m totally broke.
BANFIELD: Would you believe this woman is a county legislator?
BERKY: I`m going to protest this in court. Are you telling me that you singled me out.
BANFIELD: Tell it to the judge. Terror in a place where you least expect it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can response to the active shooter.
BANFILED: Bullets fly at a neighborhood Walmart.
VICTOR AVILA, THORNTON POLICE SPOKESMAN: Just began randomly shooting into a group of people.
BANFIELD: Three people cut down before the killer calmly walks out.
AVILA: There`s nothing on motive as of yet.
BANFIELD: Now the manhunt has found its target.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car just drove by. Oh, my gosh.
BANFIELD: And we`re getting our first good look.
Naked pictures of a student`s mom scattered around the school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a sex crime against children.
BANFIELD: The person arrested for doing it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope he didn`t do it.
BANFIELD: Grandma. How this racy act of revenge is ripping a family apart.
Locked in the trunk of a car. This woman finds a convenient place to escape. Caught on camera, she makes a mad dash as her captor shops inside.
Imagine his surprise and his mad dash to escape. Mickey, Minnie, Elmo and Clifford, the gang`s all here and ready to party. But before you hire
Michael for your kid`s birthday, you might want to know who is inside that costume because cops say they caught a predator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Primetime Justice." Admit it, you`ve searched through every excuse in the
book as that officer strolls up to your driver`s side window because you were clocked going way too fast on that stretch of road behind you. We`ve
all given it the college try, sometimes with success, sometimes utter defeat.
But the woman I`m about to introduce you to in upstate New York, I`m going to lay bets you had never heard the string of excuses like the ones that
she unraveled. Her spectacle rings in at 25 minutes. And as you watch, keep in mind she`s a woman who actually makes laws, a county legislator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERKY: All I know what this is about, my son was calling me and he was asking me when I was going to be home.
SHORT: The reason I pulled you over is because when you passed me you were doing 43 in a 30, that`s 13 miles per hour over the speed limit. We were
passing the fire house there.
BERKY: Oh, well, god, I mean I was moving together with everyone. I`m sorry.
SHORT: Unfortunately, I can`t pull everybody over.
BERKY: I understand. No, I work for the county, county government.
BERKY: I`m a county legislator. I`m going to meet the consulate right now at the Maritime Museum. And then I have to go to the Ulster County
BERKY: And then I`m supposed to pick up my son to go to this party. Please don`t give me a ticket. I`m broke. Completely broke. After you
tell people, it`s going to hurt me. I only made $20,000 last year. Please don`t give me a ticket.
SHORT: If you find me the registration card, just hold it out the window and I`ll come get it, OK?
BERKY: Don`t give me a ticket. I can`t afford it. I was driving at the same pace as everyone. I will defend it. I mean --
SHORT: I understand that you were driving at the same pace as everybody, but if it`s over the speed limit, it`s over the speed limit.
BERKY: So why would you pull me over instead of someone else? It`s just bad luck and I`m broke. I`m totally broke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I`m late for my son, I was moving with the traffic, I`m late for the museum, I`m a county legislator. That is a lot of excuses. But when
the officer returns back to her car to give her the ticket, it actually got worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERKY: Sorry. I`m having a panic attack.
SHORT: You need medical attention? Would you like me to call you an ambulance?
BERKY: I can`t --
SHORT: Do you want to sit down? I can explain this to you, OK?
BERKY: You give me a ticket. I`ll take you to the court because I have - -
[20:05:03] SHORT: Ma`am, you have to calm down.
BERKY: I have PTSD. I`m going to protest this in court. Are you telling me that you singled me out and that`s what you`re telling me, right? And
everyone was going at the same pace, right? I drive on that road at 30 miles per hour all the time.
SHORT: Are you going to listen to me?
BERKY: Yes, I will listen to you. You won`t let me go even though I`m a county legislator and I always do everything right and I follow the law and
I was at the same pace as every other car.
SHORT: Ma`am, will you let me explain this to you here?
BERKY: Yes, but I am also going to record the conversation.
SHORT: OK. It`s being recorded. We have video here and the whole conversation being recorded here, too, OK.
SHORT: You`re more than welcome to report it, OK? All right. Like I said, the reason why I pulled you over was because you were going 43 in a
30 which was 13 over, OK?
BERKY: I was going at the same pace as every car. I couldn`t go slower. They honk. They honk at you.
SHORT: OK. That was your words, OK? I had you 43 in a 30 which was 13 over. You did admit to me you were on your phone talking to your son.
BERKY: No, no, he was on speaker phone.
SHORT: OK, that` fine. I did not write you a ticket --
BERKY: OK, I did not admit I was not on the phone. I was on speaker phone.
SHORT: Okay, if you let me talk. I`ll give you a chance to talk, OK?
BERKY: Please tell me what you`re doing here with the ticket because I`m late for a job meeting and I`m going to -- this is my career.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That`s a lot to unload. I`m having a panic attack, I have PTSD, I`m late for a job meeting. By my count we`re now at about seven different
excuses. And that`s when she phones a friend, a county clerk back at the office. All the while, here`s what`s unreal. The cop is actually trying
to give her a break, reducing the speeding ticket to just a seat belt violation, no points.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHORT: I just would like to explain the ticket to you, then I`ll be more than happy to handle any questions.
BERKY: You pulled me over just because even though everyone was going at the same speed you had to single somebody out.
SHORT: No, I do not. Those are not my words.
BERKY: That`s what you said before --
SHORT: Ma`am, everything has been tape recorded. I said I can`t pull everyone over.
BERKY: You can`t pull everyone over. You can just pull one over, that`s going at the same pace as everyone else.
SHORT: That`s correct. That`s how the police do it, that`s safe. We only pull one car over at a time.
BERKY: So you choose one particular person. Guys, I don`t consider. I don`t feel safe anymore. I don`t feel safe here.
SHORT: OK. Well, everything`s being audio and video recorded, ma`am, OK?
BERKY: I don`t feel safe around you.
SHORT: You don`t feel safe around me?
BERKY: No, I don`t.
SHORT: OK. Well, I was going to explain to you that the reason I pulled you over was for the speed and I was cutting you a break and not issuing
for the speeding ticket. If you can see here, it says no --
BERKY: I have a new license and registration.
SHORT: I didn`t issue for that, ma`am. You have a valid license and valid registration. You just didn`t present that to me. The expired one is in
the window and you presented to me an expired license but I was able to check that on the computer to see that they were both valid. You did not
get tickets for that.
BERKY: I work 24 hours a day to support my family.
SHORT: OK. So as long as everybody is listening right now, the reason why I pulled you over was for the speed. I was cutting you a break and issuing
you nor no seat belt. I`m aware that you`re wearing your seat belt but this is a non-moving violation. It doesn`t incur any points and it doesn`t
affect your drive, are you understanding what I`m saying to you?
BERKY: I could get points.
SHORT: I pulled you over for the speed.
BERKY: I could have my insurance changed.
SHORT: Correct. The speeding ticket for 13 over if convicted would be four points on your license. So I was cutting you a break and not issuing
BERKY: I`m taking this to court because this is incorrect. First of all, it`s not the right charge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You`re still with me, right? I don`t feel safe around you. You singled me out. I work 24 hours a day to support my family. That`s a lot.
That`s also three more excuses. So we`re now at 10 different ones. But she`s still got a hail mary left. And the cop has one last move of his
own, too. Since she continued to hassle him even after he cut her that break, boy, he went right back to issuing her that original speeding ticket
with a big old fine of four points off your license. How do you like that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHORT: Do you have any question, ma`am?
BERKY: Yes, I do. I`m asking you right now, I`m asking you if I can get a copy of the --
SHORT: OK. It`s my discretion on which ticket that I issue. This is what I --
BERKY: The other one earlier.
SHORT: OK. But this is what I pulled you over for. I didn`t pull you over for seat belt. I pulled you over for speed. It`s my discretion if I
want to issue the seat belt tore speed.
BERKY: I didn`t understand what you were doing when you went back to get me the other --
SHORT: No, OK.
BERKY: All I asked you was what the other --
SHORT: I`ve been trying to explain this very nicely to you for a half hour now, ma`am.
BERKY: I said that I didn`t understand.
SHORT: No, you didn`t say that you didn`t understand. You said that`s specific not what I pulled over for. So I said I would timely go back and
issue the ticket why I pulled you over. That`s what I`m doing, OK?
BERKY: I can`t afford this. I already lost that job. So now what I will do is I`ll just --
SHORT: Are you going to take the ticket or not take the ticket?
[20:10:03] BERKY: I don`t really know what my rights are. Could you tell me? Let`s just stay here and tell me what my rights are. I have my rights
with that. If I didn`t understand the previous ticket, you would make a harsher one.
SHORT: OK. But this isn`t a harsher one, ma`am. This is the appropriate ticket.
BERKY: No, no, no, it is harsher. Because what you explained to me before is that the other one would let me off with fewer what? I didn`t
BERKY: Can you explain it to me again?
SHORT: You said to me that that`s not the ticket the reason why I pulled you over. So I went back and issued the appropriate ticket for you.
BERKY: Wait a second. I`m sorry. I need to record this again.
SHORT: Okay. This is the appropriate ticket that I pulled you over for, OK?
BERKY: No, no, no, that`s not what I`m asking you.
SHORT: Guilty or not guilty on the back, OK? That`s your ticket this, all right, ma`am?
BERKY: I need to continue to ask you -- no, I need to ask you.
SHORT: I`ve explained everything to you. If you want to speak again you can plead not guilty and we can just talk in court.
BERKY: What`s the previous one that you give --
SHORT: I explained everything to you already.
BERKY: But I didn`t understand.
SHORT: I`ve been here for about 30 minutes explaining to you.
BERKY: I`ve already missed my job interview now. I`m asking you --
SHORT: I have other stuff that I need to do also.
BERKY: I have that in Ulster County.
SHORT: OK. And I`ve here. I`ve accommodated you and I explained everything to you --
BERKY: You didn`t explain.
SHORT: -- to the best of my ability.
BERKY: You didn`t plain --
SHORT: Yes, I did, ma`am. I`m not going to argue with you any further.
BERKY: No, I didn`t --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So can I just say Officer Gary Short is maybe the most patient man on the planet. 30 minutes-ish give or take, he spent trying
desperately to get a word in edgewise, to explain everything to her, and ultimately gave up and said I`m out. Here`s your ticket.
Joining me now, Forensic Psychologist Brian Russell, also former NYPD lieutenant and criminal justice expert Darrin Porcher and veteran
prosecutor, Wendy Patrick because I was questions for all three of you all. First thing I want to start with you if I can, Brian. With your forensic
psychology background, the first thing we all ask is was, as we began to watch the video we felt bad for her thinking, oh dear god, this woman is
really having a panic attack. I think until we got about 10 minutes in. What`s your read on that?
BRIAN RUSSELL, PH.D, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Ashleigh, my read on that is you don`t have to worry about that. You know, usually when you have
BANFIELD: I knew you were going to say that.
RUSSELL: Your instincts are usually pretty good and no exception here. Usually when somebody is having a real panic attack, they`re not able to
simultaneously continue to participate in arguments, continue to articulate more excuses and usually they don`t calm down on command.
And just so you know, this isn`t just my expertise we`re relying on. I actually had somebody who suffers from panic disorders watch this video
this afternoon and I said, what do you think? And she said to me, it`s fake. Why? And she gave the same reasons I just gave you.
BANFIELD: Because when you`re having a panic attack, you know, most people are -- most afraid of not being able to breathe and nothing else at that,
you know, point matters. And ultimately, can I just again reiterate all of the things that she said to this officer.
My son wants know when I`m going to be home. I suffer from PTSD, I`m having a panic attack, I only made 20,000 last year and I`m broke, I can`t
afford this ticket. I was only driving with the traffic. You singled me out. I`m going to lose my job. I don`t feel safe around you. Ultimately
I think that officer Gary Short might be the nicest, kindest officer I`ve ever seen on the beat. But you know who else is really nice, Darrin
Porcher, you`ve been on the beat, you`ve been on the NYPD and my guess is that you`ve seen a lot of this. You`ve heard all the excuses.
DARRIN PORCHER, PH.D, RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT: As a practitioner, I`ve dealt with these things directly. Just give you a funny story. One day I
pulled someone over and I said him, why are you driving so fast. He said because my mother passed away. I`m on my way to the wake. As I`m speaking
to this guy, the caller ID comes up and says mom. I said -- I thought your mother passed.
So wait, it gets better. I said, why don`t you answer it. Because it could have been someone that had his mother`s cell phone.
PORCHER: He said, no, no, no. I said, no, go ahead and answer it. His mother comes on and says where`s the 20 bucks that you owe me? This guy
was totally out there.
BANFIELD: Done, right?
PORCHER: Totally out there. So needless to say, he got a summon.
BANFIELD: I just think if I fought to every excuse in the book, you`ve heard every excuse in the book. And while it seems funny and honestly,
this -- I think it had upwards of 200,000 views, 184,000, 185,000 views on YouTube just on one area of YouTub. Wendy, it`s serious to behave like
WENDY PATRICK, VETERAN PROSECUTOR: It is.
BANFIELD: It`s serious for anyone let alone a county legislator. What kind of a boat is she in right now.
PATRICK: Well if you`re a public official, you cannot use your position to gain an advantage. The problem -- and this is one legislator who would
love to have a do-over, no doubt.
PATRICK: You got to believe you`re always living on video particularly when you get pulled over. You would have thought she got pulled over for
DUI or vehicular ma manslaughter, going 43 in a 30.
[20:15:03] That was the circumstances that she chose to say not once but I think it was over five times what she did. Now, not so much a slam dunk
because you`re going to analyze did that conversation come up? Was she consciously thinking about if I explain this I`ll get out of the ticket?
One wonders if that could be true given the length of the time.
BANFIELD: Thirty minutes.
PATRICK: I mean sort of arguing both side of the (INAUDIBLE). Given the length of time that that went on. But you`re right in that that is one of
the very serious things they`re going to be looking at was that appropriate both ethically and then criminally.
BANFIELD: So let me go back to Brian Russell for a minute. Brian, she -- and listen, we called all day. We reached out in every different way we
could through Facebook, through her lawyer, through her office, her cell phone, nada, cricket. She had nothing to say to us. But there`s a local
media outlet called Hudson Valley One that she reportedly did respond to and issued an apology and reportedly said that her behavior was
unacceptable. She never mentions anything about panic attacks or PTSD or anything else that she made these excuses for, which I think, you know,
really just is the position we took which is this looked like a big old act.
Once she added the next nine, you know, eight or nine excuses. But I do want to ask you about the notion of somebody issuing that kind of apology.
What does that tell you about this woman?
RUSSEL: Well, it`s amazing how sorry people are once the country`s seen what they`ve done. My dad was a Capitol Hill police officer in the `70s.
And I remember him telling me about pulling over a supreme court justice who was righteously indignant about being pull pd over. And I`m sure if
back then there was dash cam video and the nation had seen it, the justice would have been -- it`s a no longer sitting justice, by the way, would have
been out there, you know, apologizing just the same.
I do want to say as a public service announcements to everyone watching, do not this weekend use this video as a drinking game where you drink every
time you hear another excuse because you will be too intoxicated to drive yourself very quickly.
BANFIELD: No kidding. OK. So there`s another issue here, and I think Wendy, you might be able to speak to this. It gets a little deeper this
whole notion of why this video is out now. Because this actually happened back in May. So why are we seeing this now two weeks before a re-election
campaign? She is up for re-election in two weeks and the county board reportedly released this video
So I don`t know if there`s a co-inky dink or if there`s some politics at play here, I smell a bit of a rat, I got to be honest.
BANFIELD: And in that respect that`s wholly unfair to that woman to time that release out. But she could face more than an ethics violation from
her county role. The county could actually charge her 10 grand at the worst sort of offensive level. And then they could turn this all over to
prosecutors. And what might they do with this?
PATRICK: Well, prosecutors would look at the same kind of conduct that we`re discussing. They would look at whether and an official uses their
public position to gain an advantage, to get out of a ticket. It`s actually quite common. And we don`t often see it the way we`ve seen it
here play out, but it`s not uncommon that we see this, it happens a lot. This was a particularly egregious video.
But you`re right, it happened back in May. And I have to go back to the duration of the video and the number of excuses she made, you got to wonder
whether her primary goal was to use her official position to get out of the ticket.
Now I know there are plenty of people watching that are saying, of course it is. But having been a prosecutor for so many years and actually having
started as a criminal defense attorney, I can see both sides of this argument. The only way to not get a speeding ticket is not to speed. She
was upset that she was singled out, but that`s the officer`s job, isn`t it? You got to single somebody out. You can`t pull over the whole freeway.
PORCHER: Somebody has to get stopped.
BANFIELD: OK, one more quick question and that is this, she was a no-show in June for court appearance and in July and in August. That`s got to make
things way worse.
PORCHER: What`s going to happen is you will have three suspensions that come after that. So, it just makes her situation far worse.
BANFIELD: Yes. And as a county legislator, you would think that she would know that, that that`s a serious thing to do, address it, deal with it.
But right now I think Jennifer Schwartz Berky is probably feeling every ounce of punishment in the media that she`s been getting. She`s not
charged criminally other than she got the speeding ticket. Thank you, Brian, Darrin and Wendy.
Coming up next, Denver police make one hell of a dramatic arrest, an alleged killer at a traffic stop. And boy did it take a strange turn.
[20:24:00] BANFIELD: One of the more mundane things we do, run errands, stop at Walmart, pick up some stuff and head home from work. But last
night in a Denver suburb a quick trip to the Walmart was both terrifying and deadly and no one got a heads up.
A man in his 40s who pretty much just looked like everyone else calmly walked in, approached the registers, pulled out a gun and began firing at
random. He wasn`t targeting anyone he knew. He was just firing at anyone within range. And as the staff and the customers began to hit the floor or
run for their lives, this is what the police dispatch sounded like.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thornton dispatch. Mid-74`s at 98th and 100. We can respond to the active shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thornton dispatch command. Requesting one more medic at the scene please.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: When the bullets stopped flying, two people were dead and a third died as medical workers tried to save her. And the shooter? Well,
one of the most bizarre scenes you might ever witness.
[20:25:00] He just calmly walked out of that Walmart, got in his red Mitsubishi and drove off like nothing ever happened. The chaos that he
left behind gave way to a massive manhunt that went on all night long until a tip this morning led police to the suspect`s apartment. And while he
wasn`t actually there, as the cops surrounded the place, the swarm of media outside suddenly saw his car driving by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if you guys can see right now, but we have -- hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. There`s something going on. There`s something
going on. There`s something going on guys. They`re all running. Go, go, go. Hey, guys, the car just drove by. The car just drove --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Yes, that`s exactly what you just saw. The shooter driving past his own apartment. Alleged shooter drives by the whole scene. We don`t
know what he was doing here, whether he was trying to escape the police or take a peek at all the people outside his house, but minutes later this was
the scene. He was in handcuffs kind of stuck in traffic very weird. And tonight he`s charged with three counts of first degree murder.
And yet, with all those facts in front of us, the most important one still eludes us and why the hell did he do this? Randy Corporon is a host on 710
KNUS Radio. He joins me now from Denver. Do we know anything more about Scott Ostrum, 47 years old, and why on earth this happened?
RANDY CORPORON, HOST, 710 KNUS: Well, Ashleigh, we don`t have any information on a motive at this point. We are getting more history on the
suspect. He`s got minor criminal history, minor in the schemes of things compared to what he did -- apparently did -- allegedly did last night.
We`ve learned that he`s been charged in the past with harassment, with resisting police officers, four counts back in 1999. A couple of DUIs, one
in 1991, one in 2013. And he filed bankruptcy back in 2015.
But other than that, some neighbors have said he was a weird guy, would walk sometimes from his apartment to his car with a rifle. But we really
don`t know any more than that. Not yet.
BANFIELD: What about, you know, family, kids, wife? Was he a disgruntled -- I mean, I have seen the history that he worked in the past as a roofer,
but why the Walmart? Why those people?
CORPORON: Yes. It`s nothing but speculation right now because there`s just no information about this guy. A true loner, one that the neighbors
have said was kind of an oddball it appears.
BANFIELD: So do you know how the scene sort of unfolded inside? We were given those sort of basics, that it was just this very calm, strange moment
like everyday Joe walks in and just opens fire. Are there any other details that might give this more meaning for people who are so devastated
by what`s happened?
CORPORON: Well, no details as far as actions by this alleged shooter. There`s been many video clips being played and audio clips of people who
were inside the store and telling their story, what they heard, people describing it sounded like balloons popping, then they realized it was
something more serious.
One woman was standing next to a man who was dropped by a shot. As we know all three people who were actually shot ultimately died, so she was right
next door, right standing next to a person who lost his life last night. But not one word out of this killer. Just the word that was used to
describe him going in and going out and even this morning when he was arrested was nonchalant.
BANFIELD: That`s what`s so weird about this. Although I got to be honest, I am now almost unfazed by the different stories about these mass killers.
Everybody`s got something. But ultimately these people aren`t worth much. Forensic psychologist Brian Russell is back with me again. Can you weigh
in on this, the whole notion that a guy would so calmly, quietly, slowly, methodically, exact this kind of hell on complete strangers then calmly
make his way back to his car?
RUSSELL: Yes, when we were discussing it this afternoon, the staff and I, it was more puzzling than it is now because at that point we didn`t know
some of the facts about the history. Now that we do, what I thought this afternoon seems to make even more sense, which is that it sounds very
psychopathic to me.
[20:30:00] It sounds like there wasn`t anything particularly about these people or even about the venue, about Walmart, there wasn`t a statement,
there wasn`t any kind of a mission being accomplished. This was for the thrill or the enjoyment of doing it, I suspect, which is a very
Psychopathy is sort of psychology`s word for evil. It`s the whole idea of taking pleasure in the infliction of suffering on others. The thing about
that is this kind of a thing is never the first psychopathic thing somebody does. It starts in childhood. It`s a cruelty to animals and intentional
breakage of things and lots of lying --
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST: Somebody might have actually seen some sort of signs along the way.
RUSSELL: Oh, yes.
BANFIELD: I got to ask you also, because when you see some middle-aged white dude like Stephen Paddock in Las Vegas, become so incredibly deadly,
I want to just sort of go down the list. Paddock killed 58, allegedly. Esteban Santiago accused of killing five at Fort Lauderdale Airport.
In Cascade Mall in Burlington, Washington, Arcan Cetin died from apparent suicide. He killed five. Elliot Rodger, 22 years old, killed six people
allegedly in California, Santa Barbara. I don`t have to say allegedly. He`s dead now. Apparent suicide again.
Adam Lanza, there`s another suicide. Killed 26 at Sandy Hook. James Holmes, 24 years old, Aurora, Colorado. Opened up in a theater killing 12, hurting
another 58 during "The Dark Knight Rises," 24 years old.
So it just makes you wonder about all of these reports that are almost concurrent. And that is that the suicide rate is also going up among
disaffected men in their 20s to 50s who are jobless, turning to drugs and then killing themselves at a higher rate. Is there any correlation
whatsoever between people who do that and people who do what happened last night?
RUSSELL: Well, I think probably what`s happening more -- I think it`s a good question. I think what`s happening is there`s some recency effect. In
psychology, that just means that what sort of happened in our recent memory, we try to sort of make sense of it and it sort of stands out.
But I think if you and I went back all the way to the early days of our being on together in 2007, 2008 whenever it was, we really look at all the
stats, I don`t think we would see a great relationship there. I can tell you there definitely is not a strong correlation between suicidality and
homicidality. Most people who are homicidal aren`t suicidal and vice versa.
BANFIELD: Yes. Brian, thanks for the insight. Although I got to say you`re insightful but it doesn`t help us to get through any of these. No matter
what kind of science or forensics we can apply to these minds, it just doesn`t help us feel anything for these people and it doesn`t help us feel
better about where we are. My thanks to you.
RUSSELL: No words.
BANFIELD: Can we have you here on a happier topic some time? Would that be OK?
RUSSELL: That would be great.
BANFIELD: OK. Thanks, Brian. Brian Russell joining us. Your mother and your father may not have always approve of who you dated, but I am pretty sure
that it`s unlikely they would have gone to be extreme that one woman is accused of doing.
She`s accused of stealing nude photos off her son`s phone of his ex- girlfriend, making copies and scattering them throughout a Kentucky high school. We have the details on this one straight ahead.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: A lot of bullying goes on in high schools across the country, especially on social media. But in Louisville, Kentucky, police say a
grandmother bypassed Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and allegedly distributed naked pictures of her rival in a high school bathroom.
The investigators say this 60-year-old grandma entered a school through a side door, walked into the girl`s rest room, and began scattering nude
photos of another woman on the floor and outside the school in the parking lot. Underage girls, students, found those racy pictures, and it turns out
those pictures, those naked pictures were of another student`s mom.
At first, police and the school staff thought that another student must have been involved with this, but then when the police and the staff
checked out the surveillance video, voila, there was granny, skulking through the school. It turns out she herself has a granddaughter at that
Police say Frances Bailey did this because she was upset that her own son`s ex-girlfriend, you know, she didn`t like her much. So she allegedly found
nude pictures of that ex-girlfriend on her son`s phone and the rest is history. For his part, that son of hers, not happy about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONNIE BAILEY, SON OF FRANCES BAILEY: I hope you didn`t do it. I hope you didn`t do it. Because that is a sex crime against children. And that is
really, really bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Frances Bailey is now in a whole heap of trouble
[20:40:00] facing charges of distribution of obscene material, criminal trespassing, and harassment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Bailey, you`re charged with distributing on obscene matter, criminal trespass, and harassment. I`m going to get you a public
defender. You have work release, but you have to understand this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at the judge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t have any contact with this person. Ms. Bailey, I need you to pay attention. You can`t have any contact with this person
through any means in the great wide world. You can`t phone, text, Facebook.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Kasey Cunningham is a reporter for CNN affiliate WAVE. She joins me live now from Louisville, Kentucky. Kasey, thanks for being with me. So,
the weird twist in this whole story is that Frances Bailey may have actually gotten away with this. Had she not actually gone in and meddled at
the school in a matter at a time when they didn`t think she was involved, what happened?
KASEY CUNNINGHAM, REPORTER, WAVE: Right. So her granddaughter was questioned in this whole incident. And she hears about this and gets to the
school, confronts the authorities about the fact that her granddaughter`s questioned, and that`s when they recognize her.
They say, hey, that`s the woman that`s in the surveillance video. That`s who did this. She was later charged with distribution of obscene matter,
criminal trespassing, and harassment, but, yes.
BANFIELD: She goes in there to complain that the school is questioning her daughter about these nudie pictures all over the bathroom.
CUNNINGHAM: Right, her granddaughter.
BANFIELD: Or her granddaughter, thank you. And says, how dare you question my granddaughter without checking with me first? And they`re, like, hey,
aren`t you that lady in the video? Is that how that worked?
CUNNINGHAM: Right. They recognized her. The thing about the schools is they have some pretty high security. So she entered in unlawfully. You know, two
students were buzzed in through the side door, and then she ended up following them in, going into the girl`s bathroom, and then distributing
School officials tell us these photos were only up for a few minutes, but they were taken to the assistant principal, but her son is -- the woman in
these photos, her son is a student there. So, you can just imagine, I`m sure there`s some buzz around the school district about this. It can`t be a
very comfortable situation for him.
BANFIELD: Awful. I mean, it`s just a million levels of awful. I do want to say this. We`ve contacted Frances Bailey, and she did not want to come on.
She said she wants to talk after she`s dealing with all the legal issues, so I understand that.
But she did say this, "I`m innocent. That`s all I can say." I`m innocent. That`s all I can say. She was perfectly delightful on the phone. I do want
to ask you this. The student whose mom appeared in those naked photographs, do we know like how that student`s doing? That`s really awful. That is the
kind of pain and suffering that a kid you can imagine will never get over. Do we have any idea?
CUNNINGHAM: Yes, it`s hard to imagine. We do know the name of the person, the photos. We haven`t, obviously, released that because she`s a victim in
this matter and we do not know how her son is doing. And, of course, Frances Bailey`s granddaughter goes to that school as well. You can just
imagine the kind of drama between these families and these students.
Apparently there`s some history here. The woman in the photo had filed a domestic violence complaint against Frances Bailey`s son, who she had
dated, and a criminal complaint against Frances Bailey herself. So, clearly there`s a long history here.
BANFIELD: It`s confusing. Just to sort of go over the flow chart again, the granny is Frances Bailey. Her son is Ronnie Bailey. The nude woman is his
BANFIELD: This is what Ronnie Bailey said about that ex-girlfriend. And I think you will be, you know, fascinated -- our audience will be fascinated
to hear how he feels about her. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAILEY: I love her. I love you. And I`m sorry. I don`t know who did what. I don`t know what`s going on. Just know I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So Wendy, as a prosecutor in this case, I was a little surprised to see distribution of obscene matter, criminal trespassing and harassment
but not dissemination of obscenity to minors. Why not? That`s way more serious.
WENDY PATRICK, VETERAN PROSECUTOR: It would be a lot more serious. We`ll have to see what the photographs were. And thank God we don`t have any more
detail. That`s everybody`s nightmare, I got to work and I was naked. I mean, this is so traumatic.
BANFIELD: Or the kids seeing naked picture of my mom --
PATRICK: Of my mom.
BANFIELD: Scattered all over the kid`s rest room.
PATRICK: You have to look exactly at what the depictions were. Again, I`m glad we don`t have that description, but that will help inform what charges
BANFIELD: Well, it was obscene, according to the charge. It was obscene.
BANFIELD: You have to look at the state law.
PATRICK: It almost doesn`t matter, Ashleigh, in this instance because they were minors, absolutely.
BANFIELD: Social media is not the only way to hurt people. Wendy, stand by, if you will. If the costumed characters in Times Square
[20:45:00] creep you out in the least, then this guy is probably going to terrify you. He`s a suspected child rapist who ran a party planning
business on the side. M.C. Parties.
Also caught on camera, an Alabama woman makes a dramatic escape from the trunk of an alleged kidnapper. We`ll let you know what happened next.
BANFIELD: This next story is one that will send chills down the back of any parent who`s hired a costumed stranger to come and entertain kids at a
birthday party. This is 43-year-old Michael Cripps.
Mr. Cripps is now facing a laundry list of charges that alleged he raped and molested at least five young boys since 2009. And here`s the creepy
[20:50:00] This is the business Mr. Cripps used to run. M.C. Parties. When parents booked a party, they could choose the costume of their choice.
Delaware County District Attorney`s Office said there`s no indication that Cripps met any of his victims through those parties.
But they do say they think he used the company as the way to lure children and get close to them. The case is still open. They say they`re looking for
other victims. So if you know anything, you know what to do.
An Alabama woman is free after a dramatic escape from the trunk of her alleged kidnapper`s car. You can actually see the suspect, Timothy Wyatt,
pull up at a gas station. He gets out of the car and he walked into the convenience store. Here is the thing. It doesn`t look like he`s in much of
a hurry, right?
Probably thinks his trunk is pretty good. But while he`s inside the store, here`s what`s happening outside at his car, boom. The woman stuffed in the
trunk manages to release the latch and run for the hills. But what she does is she run into the store. She doesn`t know he`s in there, right?
She`s running for help. She runs in. Her alleged kidnapper then spots her, oops, and then he is the next one making a run for it. Runs out, back to
the car, slams closed the trunk, gets in and thinks, ah, shit, yes, out of the parking lot he goes.
It is not really clear from the video if she even thought of him as she dashed in to get help. Reportedly that woman told the police that Wyatt
woke her up when he broke into her home and assaulted her. Mr. Wyatt is now facing charges of kidnapping, robbery, and domestic violence. Unbelievable
You should know there is that latch in every car after 2002. It glows in the dark. So if you ever find yourself trapped in the trunk, you can see it
and you can pull it, and you`re out.
So this is great. We at HLN, we`re super duper proud to share stories of people who make a difference. We call them CNN heroes, everyday people who
change the world around them. Throughout the year, we`ve gotten thousands of nominations for good people doing great work. And now we can do it. We
can honor the top 10 CNN Heroes of 2017. Here`s Anderson Cooper.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I`m Anderson Cooper. For more than a decade, we`ve been introducing you to some truly remarkable individuals changing
the world. And this year is no different. It`s time to announce the top 10 CNN Heroes of 2017. Here they are.
COOPER (voice-over): You guys need any meals? From Missouri pit master Stan Hays and his team of volunteers have responded to dozens of natural
disasters providing nourishment and comfort to survivors and first responders. Samir Lakhani from Pittsburgh recycles and distributes
discarded bars of soap (INAUDIBLE) across Cambodia including hygiene and creating jobs.
Amid violence in Chicago, police officer Jennifer Maddox gives young people on the south side a safe haven to learn, grow and succeed. Mama Rosie
Marshale is raising a generation of abandoned and sick children in her impoverished Aouth African community. Many who lost parents to Aids.
Iraq war veteran Andrew Manzi`s free surf camps on South Carolina beaches bring therapy and healing to fellow vets and their families. In memory of
her son, Leslie Morissette provides computers and robots to children battling serious illnesses, keeping them connected to school and friends.
MONA PATEL, CNN HERO: He is walking.
COOPER (voice-over): Mona Patel helps fellow amputees rebuild their lives through peer support, resources, and transformative athletic activities.
Khali Sweeney`s books before boxing program provides mentorship and academic tutoring, guiding kids from the Detroit`s toughest neighborhoods
towards a brighter future.
In Southern California, Aaron Valencia teaches car restoration to young people in need, giving them trade skills, guidance and hope. And finally,
Amy Wright, through her nonprofit coffee shop in North Carolina, she`s creating jobs and community for young people with intellectual and
COOPER: Congratulations to the top 10 CNN Heroes of 2017. Now, it`s time for you to decide who will be named CNN Hero of the year and receive
$100,000 to continue their work. Just go to cnnheroes.com to learn how to vote for the CNN hero who inspires you the most.
And be sure to tune in to this year`s CNN Heroes, an all-star tribute. Once again, I`ll be co-hosting with Kelly Ripa as we celebrate all the honorees
live from New York, Sunday, December 17th.
BANFIELD: That`s an awesome, awesome thing. Truly an extraordinary group of people and proof that one person can make a massive difference. Straight
ahead, got one more thing before we go. Where you do want to live and where you don`t.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing before we go, this is from the FBI crime reporting and U.S. census information, but the most dangerous city in America --
Detroit. Sorry, guys. Safest city in America -- Naperville. Not so far away. So I`ll just leave you with that. How does that sound?
Thank you so much for being here. And my big thanks to Wendy Patrick for being so smart and lovely and patient and kind and all those other awesome
adjectives. Come back again.
PATRICK: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Perfect. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. We`ll see you back here on Monday. In the meantime, make sure you stick around because the next
[21:00:00] is my friend, Chris Coumo, who is wicked smart, and he has a new program called "Inside" It`s great. See you later.