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Sexting Scandal; Outrageous Action; Texas Church Massacre; Mysterious Death; One More Thing. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired November 6, 2017 - 20:00:00   ET


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMTIME JUSTICE HOST: Two beautiful little girls in a senseless killing.



911 OPERATOR: Are they in the bedroom, Sir?


BANFIELD: Just five and seven years old.




J. HENDERSON: My wife just shot our kids.


BANFIELD: The cops say, "Mom, didn`t just pull the trigger."


J. HENDERSON: She is trying to commit suicide and now she is trying to choke herself.


BANFIELD: She planned the murders for weeks.


S. HENDERSON: Why did I do that babe? What did I do, Lord? What did I do?


BANFIELD: Tackled by the guy next door. Broken ribs, bruised lungs, and the neighbors thrown in jail. The victim, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very, very hugely regrettable incident that would not happen again in a million years.


BANFIELD: The offense, a serious federal crime. What happened between these two men?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a domestic situation going on within his family.


BANFIELD: He threatened his mother-in-law by text message.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were approximately 45 shots.


BANFIELD: He frightened his neighbors with endless target practice.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will never forget those shots.


BANFIELD: He opened fire on a church full of people he knew.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t expect to walk into a church and see something like that.


BANFIELD: What kind of evil was lurking beneath his skin?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The deceased actually range from 18 months to 77 years of age.


BANFIELD: And can the next devil on earth be stopped?

A campus on edge, after cheerleader`s mysterious death, dumped at a hospital, her driver took off. Now, Texas Rangers are tracking those who

left Cayley Mandadi for dead.

Their daughter has cerebral palsy and this was the photo they got from her school to be - she wasn`t keeping quiet, cue the lawyers and the lawsuit.

Good evening everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is Primetime Justice and we`re following several, several big stories tonight. And in a moment,

I`m going to get to that disturbing set of new details about the Texas church shooter who apparently was not firing at nameless and faceless

people. He is firing at a church full of people that he knew personally. There is a godawful amount of evil involved with that detail if you really

think through it. And we`ve got more astounding details coming up about his past, like what he did to animals and what he did to babies.

We begin tonight in another small Texas town, because while all eyes and all attention have understandably have been on the church shooting

something was happening in Mabank, Texas, just southeast of Dallas that would bring even seasoned law enforcement to their knees.

A heartless killer put two little girls, sisters, ages five and seven in the crosshairs and pulled the trigger, shot them in the head in cold blood

late at night when they should have been nestled in their beds.

Kenlie and Kaylee did not stand a chance and that`s because the police say, their killer knew their every move. Their minute-by-minute routine, even

their favorite toys and food. It is hard to believe it, but the local sheriff says those little angels were executed by their own mother.

And the disturbing clues that were left behind do not even require the faintest knowledge of forensics. You just have to be able to listen.


911 OPERATOR: Henderson County 911.

J. HENDERSON: Yes. My wife .

S. HENDERSON: What did I do?

J. HENDERSON: My wife just shot our kids.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Who is this? Jacob?


911 OPERATOR: OK. What is your wife`s name?

J. HENDERSON: She is trying to commit suicide now. She`s trying to choke herself.

S. HENDERSON: No, I`m not.

J. HENDERSON: Why do you keep grabbing your neck?

911 OPERATOR: What is her name, sir?

J. HENDERSON: Sarah Henderson.

911 OPERATOR: Sarah Henderson.

J. HENDERSON: Yes, ma`am.

911 OPERATOR: How old are the children?

J. HENDERSON: Seven and five.

S. HENDERSON: Oh, my God.

911 OPERATOR: And they are in the bedroom?


911 OPERATOR: Are they in the bedroom, sir?

J. HENDERSON: No. They`re in the living room.

911 OPERATOR: They`re in the living room and they`re not breathing?


911 OPERATOR: Were you home when she did this, sir? Or did you just get home?

J. HENDERSON: I was asleep.

911 OPERATOR: You were asleep.



911 OPERATOR: Is she under the influence of any drugs or alcohol?


S. HENDERSON: I can`t. I can`t. I can`t.


BANFIELD: The man who made those calls, Jacob Henderson, is Sarah`s husband who said he was asleep, you heard that, when the girls were shot.

And investigators say, he himself is lucky to be alive because he was scheduled to die too. They say, but for the grace of God the gun jammed

when she turned it on him.

We have no idea why she allegedly tries to kill her whole family, but we do know about another call. It came from the house that night just three

hours earlier. Jacob called for help because he said Sarah was acting strange.


911 OPERATOR: EMS, this is Patricia.

J. HENDERSON: Yes, ma`am. I was wondering if I could get somebody to come out here and check my wife out. My wife, she`s like, I don`t know like

something is going on with her.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Can you describe what`s going on? The symptoms?

J. HENDERSON: Like she`s -- like she`s freaking out like somebody`s out to get her.


BANFIELD: Jacob called back minutes later to say that everything was fine. And the deputies who visited the house regardless decided there was no

danger. But now the town is planning for Kenlie and Kaylee`s burials, while their mother sits in jail on suicide watch. She is charged with one

count of capital murder with another one pending which I don`t need to remind many of our viewers in Texas, that could bring with it the death


Eline de Bruijn is a reporter with and she joins me live now from Dallas.

Eline thanks so much for being here.


BANFIELD: It is a horrifying story. It is unfathomable, especially when you hear the play-by-play that comes from this husband.


BANFIELD: Tell me a little bit more about him and his integral role in how this played out.

BRUIJN: So he had said that they had gone to sleep together and then he woke up to her saying, "Babe, I just shot the kids." And he said that he

didn`t believe her. And then he went to the living room and found Kaylie and Kenlie shot in the head.

And then he calls 911 and what everyone just heard he said, that she was acting suicidal and throughout the 911 calls he`s crying and as any father

would, but yet the mother is continuously asking questions, "Why did I do that? Lord, please forgive me." And he continues to ask the 911 operator,

trying to get help and the 911 operator asked if the girls are breathing and he says, "No."

And then, of course, she says, "Why did I do that? What`s going on?" And then he told 911 .

BANFIELD: The 911 call seems to be where our public information ends, and yet they have said that he was supposed to be next and that the gun jammed.

How do we know this?

BRUIJN: Right.

BANFIELD: And is someone talking, either him or is she talking?

BRUIJN: Not as of now. We know that from the sheriff of Henderson County. She had said that the gun had malfunctioned. And that was why the husband

was able to survive this.

BANFIELD: So I want to play -- there is more, I mean the 911 interaction between this family and the operators is so telling. There is just a rich

minefield of information in the 911 calls. And I want to play this one.

This one came in at about 2:24 AM. This is right after the kids were shot. You can hear Sarah Nicole Henderson in the background. And you can

certainly Jacob Henderson as he`s making his appeal to the operator. Have a listen.


911 OPERATOR: And we have an ambulance headed that way, as well as officers, OK?


911 OPERATOR: OK? Is there anything else you need us .



S. HENDERSON: Why did I do that, babe?

J. HENDERSON: I don`t know.

911 OPERATOR: She is not trying to leave or anything, correct?

S. HENDERSON: What`s going on here, Jake?

J. HENDERSON: Nothing is going on. That`s what I tried telling you. She keeps saying somebody is after her. There`s nobody after her. She keeps

saying people are coming. There`s nobody even here.

911 OPERATOR: And she hasn`t been under the influence of any type of drugs or anything?


S. HENDERSON: What did I do, Lord? What did I do? What did I do, Lord? What did I do, Lord?


BANFIELD: Eline, just this quickly, we know that CPS had been to that home in 2011, we know the police actually have reported for a verbal disturbance

at that home in 2015, but apart from that, do we have any idea about what motive for why this horrifying crime would have happened?

BRUIJN: We don`t at this time. We don`t .

BANFIELD: I mean it`s just that simple. This is mystifying to the police and to neighbors and to everybody in this community, Mabank, Texas.

Eline, stand by if you will for a moment. I want to bring in (Dr. Daniel Bulbar). He`s a forensic psychiatrist and an assistant clinical professor

at the Yale School of Medicine. He joins me from Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

(Dr. Bulbar), maybe you can help me wade through this because you hear about it, you hear about infanticide, you hear about parents taking their

own children`s lives not that infrequently, but infrequently enough that it`s shocking each time. And then you hear that call and I called it a

mind field because I`m wondering if there`s something you heard differently in there that could actually speak to a defense for this woman.

DANIEL BULBAR, YALE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, PROFESSOR: Ashleigh, as you said, filicide or a parent killing their child is actually a fairly common

phenomenon occurring on the average about 500 times a year in United States. It`s most often the father that`s the perpetrator and in this case

it`s the mother, that usually happens about 40 percent of the time.

But when you think about a case like this, you think about Andrea Yates, Susan Smith and the common thread here is mental illness, and the part of

the 911 call that stood out the most for me was when the father said, "Please send the police because I feel like someone is following or my wife

is being followed by someone." To me, that was actually the most ominous sign of the entire call, because to me that indicates paranoia and paranoia

is a risk factor for violence. And so I feel like that was a sort of a sense of foreboding that this was going to occur.

BANFIELD: So, Dr. Bulbar, there`s something else that wasn`t on the 911 call but is reported from the police and witnesses. Sarah Henderson

apparently showed no remorse whatsoever, no emotion at the time of her arrest, a complete flat affect. Can you read into that?

BULBAR (?): I read that there may have been a history of bipolar disorder. The husband said in the 911 call that there was no substance use or alcohol

intoxication. But I do think that mental illness is going to be a big part in the motive behind this.

BANFIELD: Look, this is extraordinarily serious in any state and particularly in Texas where this is a capital crime, those kids under the

age of 16 and that means death penalty eligible. But going after the death penalty is a tricky business when you`re looking at a woman with mental

illness, just ask the two different trial players in Andrea Yates` trial. Is this a kind of trial you expect you`re going to see here, that they go

after her for the death penalty because of the egregious nature of what happened to those little girls?

BULBAR (?): I don`t think so. Juries are not very sympathetic to these types of crimes. Juries want someone to pay when a child is murdered.

Obviously, it`s a very, very visceral, emotional crime. But I think at the end of the day, just like Susan Smith and Andrea Yates I see life

imprisonment being more likely here than the death penalty.

BANFIELD: If I can, I want to go back Eline for a moment.

Eline, we`re also hearing from local police that they believe that Sarah Nicole Henderson planned this for two weeks. Do we have any idea how they

know that?

BRUIJN: No. At this time, we are not sure how they know that. They said it was at least two weeks, so it could have been even more than that.

BANFIELD: I want to bring in now former prosecutor Robert Schalk who joins me live on the set. I asked (Dr. Bulbar) and I`m going to ask you as a

former prosecutor. Do you look at this and say hell to pay, juries want blood, this woman deserves death penalty and I`m going after it or do you

look at it saying, look, I want to get what I can get and it`s real hard to convict on death penalty if there`s mental illness?

ROBERT SCHALK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Calculated decision. I think pre-trial evaluations from doctors are going to tell a lot as to whether or not

they`re willing to plea bargain this case and take the death penalty off the table and say, hey, listen if their doctors come back and say that

there was a history of mental illness, if she`s been previously diagnosed, medical records will spill that out. So we`ll Google search this. They`re

going to be able to get into computers and cell phones. They`re going to be able to talk to the husband potentially because as they cooperate


BANFIELD: He survived.

SCHALK: Correct. But you also have a husband who could invoke his marital privilege and say, "I don`t want to talk to you, I don`t want to cooperate

with you" as it pertains to certain aspects.

BANFIELD: You heard that 911 call. Do you expect he`s going to do that?

SCHALK: No, I wouldn`t, but you never know. Things change. Lawyers get involved. So I would think that they`re going to use it is a bargaining

tool in the sense that if there is something that is pre-existing and their doctors, I`m saying the doctors that work for the state and the

prosecutor`s office say there`s something here, you may see them negotiate the death penalty off the table.

BANFIELD: We watched the story obviously. I think Andrea Yates captivated this nation because of the unbelievable cruelty of that crime. They`re all

different, yet they`re all seemingly still the same. Bob Schalk, thank you.

Eline de Bruijn, thank you.

And, (Dr. Daniel Bulbar), thank you as well.

Straight ahead of fight between neighbors explodes into some serious violence and it wasn`t just any neighbor, it was Senator Rand Paul and his

neighbor. Rand Paul allegedly assaulted in his own front yard leaving the senator with five fractured ribs and his neighbor with a serious court



BANFIELD: Yard waste. If you can believe it, that`s what may have flicked Texas Senator or rather Kentucky Senator Rand Paul in the hospital this

weekend after he was attacked at his own home by his next-door neighbor. According to another neighbor, these two men have had a longstanding feud

over leaves and grass clippings that blow onto each other`s lawn and we`re not sure if that`s really what led to the attack. But Senator Paul`s

neighbor, Rene Boucher, admitted to coming over on Friday and tackling the senator to the ground, the Republican senator suffering from bruised lungs

and five rib fractures, three of those rib fractures so serious they`re displaced. And State Troopers are calling this an intentional assault.

But the lawyer for that neighbor insists, "This is just a dispute between neighbors albeit one that got right out of hand."


UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It was absolutely not planned out beforehand. I have seen a couple of media spots that would tend to suggest that it was

politically motivated, that it is absolutely and unequivocally untrue. It is just a very, very, hugely regrettable incident that would not happen

again in a million years.


BANFIELD: Rene Boucher is out on bond tonight, but he is facing fourth- degree assault charges at the state level. But that state and don`t forget, this is a senator, so more charges could be on the way, federal

charges and they are mighty serious because assaulting a member of Congress is a federal crime.

CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin joins me live now from Bowling Green, Kentucky. Okay, Drew, when I first heard this, I thought there is

something bigger and it does not sound like it is loan clippings, but that is the official word. Is there anything else coming out other than that

official word?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, let`s just dial that back because it is really not the official word. The official word is we

do not know what the motive is and there`s lots of investigations still going on both at the state level.

And as you said, the federal agents, the FBI, looking into this, not exactly an investigation according to the FBI public affairs officer that

we talked to in Louisville that are just looking into this. One guy is a Democrat, Boucher, the other guy, conservative Republican. So,

immediately, everybody thought this must be over politics. But, no, we are hearing from a neighbor, longstanding dispute over yard waste. This

happened apparently while Senator Rand Paul was cutting his lawn on a riding lawn mower which he does like to do.

So, at this point, it looks like it is a neighbor dispute between neighbors who have lived next to each other for 17 years, Ashley. And as Rene

Boucher`s attorney says, it does not involve politics, that doesn`t mean this is not going to be serious. The fact that these injuries are so

serious, five broken ribs, it could bring these charges up to felony charges. But right now, it`s a misdemeanor crime here in Kentucky, Ashley.

BANFIELD: And the other issue is right now where it stands at the state level, it`s a fourth degree assault and usually that is you get a cut or a

bruise in a bar fight. But when you get a fractured rib that is displaced, that can kill you. That can puncture a lung and those are serious

injuries. And as I understand it, and you will have to drive the bus here, Drew, they did not know how serious Senator Paul`s injuries were when they

leveled that fourth degree assault charge, right?

GRIFFIN: That`s absolutely correct, and now, they are going back and taking a look at it. From my understanding, the troopers that are

investigating this will actually look at Senator Rand Paul`s health records when it comes to this matter and determine, and perhaps it will be up for

the County District Attorney, the Commonwealth Attorney, the State`s Attorney, who will look at the actual injuries and determine is this really

a fourth degree assault or is this something that raises to a felonious level within the state of Kentucky?

The other matter that you alluded to is whether or not there was any kind of politics behind this, if that comes into play, then, this could also

become a federal matter.

BANFIELD: Okay. Drew, don`t go anywhere. You mentioned the troopers, so I want to bring in the troopers. Master Trooper Jeremy Hodges is with the

Kentucky State Police and he joins me live as well from Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Trooper Hodges, maybe you can shed some light here. Where are we in this investigation and where do we stand with the charges? Are we still at

fourth degree assault? Are you conferring with the feds? Help me understand where you are.

JERMEY HODGES, MASTER TROOPER, KENTUCKY STATE POLICE: Yes, ma`am. What we`re doing now is the arresting officer or in this case, which is also

will be investigating officer, once he completes his report and we`re probably waiting on some medical records, once he completes that report, he

will then forward that to our Commonwealth Attorney`s Office. Kentucky is a commonwealth state which means that we have prosecutors for both

misdemeanor and felony cases.

So, in this case, it will go to the Warren County Commonwealth Attorney for his review then. When we originally responded to Mr. Paul`s residence, he

had refused medical treatment by EMS while on scene and there was an apparent minor injury to him. It has since been released by the

spokesperson of Senator Paul that he did sustain some rib fractures.

BANFIELD: Wow. He refused medical treatment at first, maybe that`s because of his stature and he knew full well that would bring an undue

amount of attention. He must have been suffering immensely with five fractured ribs, three of them displaced.

He is the person who called 911, correct?

HODGES: That is correct, Ashley. And another thing that we have to take into consideration here is a lot of times if we can compare this to a car

wreck, maybe a day or two down the road, you notice injuries. You`re sore the next day whereas when your adrenaline is flowing, when the incident is

happening, maybe you don`t realize it first.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you this, Trooper? The $7,500 bond was posted which means Mr. Boucher gets to go home, but home is next door. And typically,

there are some conditions of posting bail and you can`t go around the alleged victims. So, what are the conditions? These two live next to each

other and this was really serious.

HODGES: Well, that will be more of a question for a pre-trial officer or a judge. But, you`re right. They do have some stipulations on his bond

agreement. Sometimes, that`s no contact or communication with the complainant. Sometimes, it`s no further acts of violence or abuse toward

him. And like you said, sometimes, it is a stay away order, not to be within 500 feet, not within 1,000 feet of the alleged victim.

And so, there are some parameters and some conditions of his bond that if he was to violate those, then, he would be arrested there.

BANFIELD: So, I am going to ask you an opinion question which is always dangerous when speaking to a law enforcement officer like yourself, but I

am going to do it anyway because this is an unusual case.

Do you expect, Trooper, that this is going to remain a state case or do you think that this is going to involve some kind of a, say, political dispute

that might rise to the level of a federal charge? And it might not even need the political dispute. It may just be a federal charge and which

means as I understand it, it is no longer a state charge. Where do you read this?

HODGES: Well, and that is one reason the FBI was contacted. They have their own policy and procedures in place that they have to conduct a

separate investigation. So, we`re working cooperatively with the FBI, just to make sure that this was not, 100 percent not politically motivated.

BANFIELD: Okay. Don`t go anywhere because I want to bring in yet another sort of perspective on all of this.

Art Roderick is the former Assistant Director of the U.S. Marshal Service. He`s also a CNN law enforcement analyst and he is joining me on the set as

well with Bob Schalk who`s a former prosecutor. So, what a trove of smart people I`m able to mine.

Art, first to you, do you see this as a federal case even if, say, politics were not involved and these are two guys who have been at each other`s

necks over grass clippings.


BANFIELD: But he`s a senator.

RODERICK: Right. It could very well end up in the federal arena regardless of what occurs here, what the motive was.

BANFIELD: Politics or not?

RODERICK: Politics or not. I mean, I think here, I have actually been called on by the Capitol Police on occasion to provide protection to a

senator when they did not have the staffing or personnel to handle that type of protection detail.

And I think that the key part here is, is this the first time the Capitol Police have ever heard of this type of incident going on between these two


BANFIELD: So, if there is some history...

RODERICK: If there is some history...

BANFIELD: ...if the Capitol Police have had to dig into before between the two...

RODERICK: Correct.

BANFIELD: ...what does that mean for Boucher?

RODERICK: Well, to me, I think that would move it up another notch to possibly becoming a federal type investigation here with the FBI and

Capitol Police.

BANFIELD: Okay. So, Bob Schalk, as the prosecutor in the room right now, if this becomes a federal case, how different is that for this neighbor in

terms of what he could face than if it stays at the state level as that probably not fourth degree assault, but something a little more serious?

SCHALK: You`re talking federal sentencing guidelines being thrown into the mix, the possibility of...

BANFIELD: How much time behind bars?

SCHALK: It could be maximum of 20 years, something to that effect. But we are assuming he has no prior criminal history. They will be able to put a

good sentencing memorandum together. If it is just truly about grass trimmings, it is probably not going into the federal. But if it is not, we

do not know if he has Facebook posts, social media, kills people.

BANFIELD: Who cares what it`s about when someone has five broken ribs?

SCHALK: True. But if you also look at the corresponding state statutes, his charge is assault in the fourth degree which is only a misdemeanor at

this point in time, probation, community service, whatever, that they would need to prove that there was a weapon used to inflict these injuries...


SCHALK: ratchet it up to the felony levels.

BANFIELD: Look at personal injury results and that`s up to 10 years. And we are going to wait like (INAUDIBLE) percent, lots of reports need to come


SCHALK: Right.

BANFIELD: So that we assess exactly where these injuries are and what they decide to do but I think I am going to be asking you some more questions

about this as we watcch. Thank you to both of you and Art, thank you as usual.

RODERICK: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Tonight, disgraced former congressman and convicted sex offender Anthony Weiner is behind bars. Serving the first night of his 21-month

prison sentence at a Massachusetts prison. Last May, Anthony Weiner pleaded guilty to transferring obscene material to a minor after the sex video

exchanged with a 15-year-old girl became public.

This episode was the last straw for former Hillary Clinton adviser Huma Abedin, who filed for divorce the next day. Since 2011, Weiner`s texting

has cost him his job, his marriage, and now it`s costing his freedom. Once released, Weiner will serve three years of supervised probation and be

listed on the sex offender registry, but nothing will compare to the first night.

Outrage tonight over this image of 27-year-old Rosa Smith. Rosa Smith has cerebral palsy, and her family has filed a federal lawsuit against her

Michigan school district. According to the complaint, a teacher allegedly used duct tape to close her mouth because she was making too much noise.

Look at the text. Help, she won`t be quiet.

(INAUDIBLE) also says there were two other aides in the classroom when this happened. The school district said in a statement that no one reported the

incident when it happened. And once they found out about it, they say they took appropriate action. Rosa no longer goes to the school, and Rosa

receives full-time care and instruction from her parents at home. Poor sweetheart.

Coming up next, the Texas shooter may have known every single one of the faces that he opened fire on at church. A stunning violent past has been

uncovered. Fracturing the skull of an infant. That`s just the tip of the iceberg.

And later, a 19-year-old cheerleader dropped off at the hospital not breathing. And the person who brought her there doesn`t answer many

questions because they took off. So, what happened to Cayley Mandadi? And was this murder?


BANFIELD: He killed at least 26 people. He wounded 20 more. And we are told tonight that he probably knew every single one of them. Devin Kelley is

responsible for the largest mass shooting in Texas State history after walking into a baptist church yesterday morning wearing tactical gear with

a black mask and a white skull face on it. He then gunned down the worshipers. One of them only 17 months old.


JOE TACKITT, SHERIFF, WILSON COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: It`s horrific. I man, you know, you just don`t expect anything like this to happen anywhere and

then it happens in a small community like this.

GLORIA RODRIGUEZ XIMENEZ, KNEW SHOOTINIG VICTIMS: They`re in pain, hurting for all the victims, the families. There`s no words to describe what

everybody is going through. You think you`re safe in the house of the Lord, but the devil never rests.


BANFIELD: Tonight, the 26-year-old killer is dead from three bullet wounds. Two by a man who chased him down and one self-inflicted by a coward.


FREEMAN MARTIN, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: This call went out as an active shooter call. Law enforcement was responding. We

know that a local resident that lives across the street from the church heard what was going on. He armed himself with an AR assault rifle and

engaged the suspect.

They engaged in gunfire here at the church. We know that the suspect was shot. When he dropped his assault rifle, jumped in his Ford Expedition and

fled the scene, this good Samaritan, our Texas hero, flagged down another young man from (INAUDIBLE) Texas, and jumped in his vehicle and they

pursued the suspect.

JOHNNIE LANGENDORFF, CHASED SUSPECT DEVIN KELLEY: I had to catch the guy. I had to make sure he was caught. And at one point the gentleman riding with

me said you may have to use your truck to get him off the road. There was no hesitation. It was do everything necessary to make sure that this guy is



BANFIELD: Tonight we`re learning more about the gunman and his connection to the Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church where the community is so

tight. The son of two of the victims says he would have known every single person and probably would have spoken to each of them too.

The victims include eight members of the same family as well as the pastor`s daughter and the visiting pastor. And potentially his own wife`s

grandmother. Investigation into the shooter is showing that he had contentious relationship with his wife`s mother, who also attends the

church. She was reportedly the recipient of threatening text messages in the past and even got one from him yesterday morning.

I want to bring in CNN national correspondent Sara Sidner. She is live outside the shooter`s home in New Braunfels, Texas. Sara, the details as

they come in are just so disturbing and heart-wrenching and shocking all at the same time and it`s hard to know which one to sort of start with.

But I`ll ask you this. The fact that he -- that he knew all -- I mean, we know the Vegas shooter just sprayed inanimate people he couldn`t see. We

know people go into churches and kill people they`ve never met before. We know this happens when these are nameless and faceless

[20:40:00] targets, but these were people he knew. Do we know if it was a vendetta against the family member that he had been fighting with and sort

of this domestic dispute that he that he had apparently been obsessing over?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We only know about there were some domestic dispute and clearly authorities saying that he was texting the

mother-in-law, his wife`s mother, and there were some threats made there. And authorities saying, look, we do not think this is about religion, we do

not think this was about politics. We think this was about a domestic issue. What that is exactly is unclear at this point.

But some of the details coming out -- this is the first I`m hearing from you, Ashleigh, that he may have known many of the people inside the church.

We did know that that is where his in-laws did go to church; his mother-in- law, his grandmother-in-law, father-in-law. They did attend that church. But his mother-in-law wasn`t in the church when the shooting happened on

this Sunday.

I do want to mention a couple of things we heard from investigators. Just devastating information about the scene. They`re still, by the way, trying

to gather all of the evidence so they can process it. They`re hoping, they say, to get that done tonight.

But we`re talking about 15 magazines. He emptied that many magazines into that church, as people were praying and trying to be peaceful inside that

church. A terrible thought when you consider how many bullets that is, hundreds of bullets leveled on all of those innocent people.

We`re also learning a little bit about where he was leading up to going to the church. So, we were able to talk to a manager. He worked as a security

guard. He had a security guard license. The manager of this small little family resort told us, and she said, look, he was very quiet.

He didn`t have a lot of conversation with people. He didn`t do well with sort of conversing with people. He kept to himself. He was very polite, she

said. But he was at work on Friday. And on Friday, he asked her, look, I want to talk to you about a policy. I want to know if I`m doing the right

thing here. Let me know a little bit.

So it made it seem like he intended to show up to work the next day in which he did, he showed up on Saturday, but he didn`t show up on Sunday.

They had no idea until he missed his shift. He was supposed to be there at 4:00 p.m. At 5:00, they turned on the news, and they understood why he

hadn`t showed up --


BANFIELD: Yes. I mean, I can imagine they couldn`t believe --

SIDNER: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Here are a few other things we`re hearing.


BANFIELD: He volunteered at a vacation bible school back in 2014. That he was fired from a night job as a security guard at a water park. A neighbor

had reported that there was regular rapid fire target practice, which is not that unusual for this neighbor in Texas, but just the sheer volume of

gunfire, the amount of ammunition, the number of rounds just stood out to this neighbor is really shocking.

Sara, hold on for one second, because I want to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst and former assistant director of U.S. Marshals Service,

Art Roderick. He`s back with me again, as is Bob Schalk (ph). So, real quick question. Sara mentioned, they`re still processing the scene.


BANFIELD: I think we`re not even 30 hours or so out of this.


BANFIELD: And all I can think of is when you had that many victims in that small of space, it is a virtual bloodbath. I almost feel like, what`s the

point? We are not going to have a prosecution, and nothing that these investigators find is going to prevent the next one. So what the hell are

they doing?

RODERICK: It`s not -- I mean, everybody wants answers. Law enforcement wants to have answers. I mean, we heard this --

BANFIELD: We get answers. We get them all the time and it makes no difference.

RODERICK: I know. Maybe this will be the triggering one. I hate to say it, but we keep saying this every single time. This is the third mass causality

event we`ve had in 35 days.

BANFIELD: I was with you on the last one.

RODERICK: Right, exactly. This touches every nerve, raw nerve that we have right now. We`re talking about domestic violence. We`re talking about gun



RODERICK: We`re talking about mental health issues. And, again, this is the third mass causality event in 35 days.

BANFIELD: So here`s the thing. Everybody says, well, gosh, there were red flags. And here`s what I have to say about that. Bull. And I`ll tell you

why. Because if you want to look at the stats about how many people are running around America with these kinds of red flags, roughly 3.5 million

violent crimes are committed against family members between `98 and 2002.

You are going to chase after all of them because they might be mass murderers. How about this? This guy was apparently cruel to a puppy. Beat,

kicked a little puppy dog. Animal statistics from the humane society, 1,400 cruelty cases in 2011.

I want to bring in Candice DeLong, a former FBI profiler and psychiatric nurse. She is live in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Forgive me, Candice, if I am

pissed, but I hear all these things at every shooting, and it makes us all think about what to look for next.

You can`t look at all those millions of criminals and think they`re going to be the next mass killer. You can`t look at a puppy kicker or a baby

beater as this guy was and think, oh, dear, maybe he`s a mass killer. What the hell are we supposed to do now, Candice?

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER, PSYCHIATRIC NURSE: Well, one of the things that strikes me,

[20:45:00] that offended me was when I learned that he only was sentenced to 21 months in jail or prison for beating his wife and fracturing the

skull of a baby. He should have been imprisoned for at least 15-20 years for that.

And this guy, the brutality that he showed towards this dog that he owned, starving it and then punching it, where people could see he doesn`t care,

he`s a bully, he`s probably had a history.

BANFIELD: I feel like I knew that, Candice. I feel like I knew that. Maybe the only thing that is different about this one and I guess we`ll find

something new about every single one, but that he apparently knew everybody in that church. So he was looking at faces he knew and had spoken to and

was firing rounds right into them. Does that help us find the next guy?

DELONG: Well, I think what it`s going to boil down to, I don`t know if it will help us find the next guy, but the most important factor for me, I

look at -- I try to see why did this happen in addition of course to how and what. And I think the motivation for this -- of course he probably knew

most of those people, if not all of them, it`s a small town.

I think it was not a random target. He went there on purpose to do as much damage as he could, probably seeking revenge on the mother-in-law who

didn`t show up. He texted her yesterday morning. She ended up not going to church. I wonder if she was --

BANFIELD: If she was scared. If she was scared.

DELONG: I wonder --

BANFIELD: Yes, you nailed it. Look, we don`t know the answers, but with a guy this dangerous, clearly, and this much of a background -- I`m sorry.

I`m just so frustrated because I am so sick of these stories. I said it in Vegas. I am sick to death of covering this death. I`m sick of the

preventative crap that we`re dealing with on a regular basis.

This is the only country. This is the only country where this happens. I`m Canadian. I live the same lifestyle as Americans growing up. This didn`t

happen there. So, why are we not allowed to talk about that? Let`s ruminate on that during the commercial break. How about that?

A cheerleader`s mysterious death sends shock waves across her college campus and investigators are now trying to figure out who was with this

young woman when she died? And why did they just dump her at a hospital and take off?


BANFIELD: It`s not how you want to hear someone died and then certainly not a young college student. Cayley Mandadi was just 19 years old. She was a

sophomore at Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas, on the cheer squad, in a sorority, and she had a promising life ahead of her.

She was in a car on the back from Houston when she simply stopped breathing and no one knows why. Even more disturbing, no one knows who was in the car

with her or who drove her to the hospital and just dumped her there and took off.

Investigators are remaining tight-lipped about this. But they now say that Cayley`s death is being investigated as a possible homicide. Meanwhile, the

school is issuing a safety alert, saying a non-student, a male, was issued a criminal trespass warning, causing many to wonder not just whether Cayley

was killed, but how and where and by whom.


NICHOLAS SAMORAY, TRINITY UNIVERSITY STUDENT: The campus as a whole has really come together I think to support students who have been affected and

support, you know, any faculty and students who have known her, her family. It was shocking. It`s in a school of only, I think, 2,500 students. To hear

one passed away is incredibly sad.


BANFIELD: Reporter Michael Board is with WOAI News Radio, and he joins me from San Antonio, Texas right now. Michael, every hospital that I know of

has surveillance video. They can see who it is who drives up and dumps a patient and takes off. Do they not have that at the hospital where she was


MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO (via telephone): They do have that and that is part of the investigation and that`s partly why they`re being

so tight-lipped about this. They`re not really releasing any information on this at all other than saying that they are investigating this as a


BANFIELD: Michael, that`s just weird. If they`re looking for who has answers, the last people with her might just have them. And if they have a

vehicle description, it`s usually good to get it out on national TV. Why are they not telling everybody, you know, screaming it from the hill top,

this is the car we are looking for, these are the people we`re looking for?

BOARD (via telephone): Well, this isn`t a case where I believe that they are really worried about whoever was in this car getting spooked and

leaving. They`re trying to hold that information, trying to make sure that they can get to this person before this person is able to leave, as you

know, San Antonio is pretty close to the border.

If someone is wanting to leave through the border, I mean, that is a pretty easy way to get out of this. They want to keep all their information really

close right now while they figure out who is in this car.

BANFIELD: I only have a little bit of time left, Michael. What happened? What do they think happened in the car? I mean, when you hear someone just

stopped breathing, you wonder was it a drug overdose? Was someone hurting her? Why if it was a drug overdose would they take off and maybe not say

listen, here`s what`s wrong with her, please save her. Why do they think it`s homicide?

BOARD (via telephone): Well, if someone just dropped them off at a hospital. That`s one of the things that they`re leading to at a hospital.

If this was an accident. If this was natural causes. Someone would stay with them. The reason that they dropped them off, that`s why they think

something mysterious was going on here.

BANFIELD: Well, Michael, let us know when there is more detail coming in. We want to stay on the story and find out what happened to Cayley Mandadi

[20:55:00] and who it is who did that and who may be responsible. Michael Board, thank you for that.

One more thing, did you know that the most stolen car in the United States is worth less than $3,000? That`s next.


BANFIELD: Just one more thing before we go, did you know what the most stolen car in the U.S. Is? It`s not like a Porsche or one of those fancy

cars. It`s a 20-year-old car, if you can believe it. A 1997 Honda Accord. Apparently, good for parts.

There are the other two, the runners up, l998 Honda Civic and the 2006 Ford pickup, full size. So, lock it up, babe, if you got one of those. Big

thanks to Bob Schalk (ph) for being here tonight. Thank you, always, a pleasure. Come back.


[21:00:00] BANFIELD: Love it, thanks. Thank you, everyone, for being here. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00. Meantime, stick around.

Bill Harper is coming up with another rendition of "How It Really Happened." It starts right now.