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WSJ: Flynn Offered Up To $15 Million To Deliver Cleric To Turkey; Are We At A Tipping Point In Reporting Sexual Misconduct?; Beyond The Call Of Duty; Will Father Of Reporter Killed On Live T.V. Run For Congress? Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 10, 2017 - 07:30   ET


[07:30:00] SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: -- during the election -- the digital warfare campaign on U.S. technology platforms.

And he's leaving the door wide open to another Russian attack and sending a signal to leaders, like Kim Jong Un, that the United States doesn't respond to direct attacks on the homeland. That's a dangerous message to send to a guy who's threatened to launch missiles at the United States.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Surprising that Putin isn't pushing for the meeting given that the President of the United States has said that the investigation into Russian meddling is a witch hunt. Now, you'd be on pretty safe footing, it seems, but it seems like it's not going to happen.

Phil Mudd, the implications to this. There had been political spin that hey look, whatever Flynn did it's really just about money and accounting, and what they call the FARA requirements -- F-A-R-A. It's an acronym. You can go look it up for yourself -- that this is different.

This is after the election in December, once he's nominated as NSA. So, what does this mean in terms of the implications for the investigation?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL, CIA, FORMER SENIOR INTELLIGENCE ADVISER, FBI: There's a couple of differences here, as you mentioned. The critical point here is this happened after the election.

The simple question, obviously, Chris, is whether something illegal happened. Whether there was a conversation about money in exchange for action on this cleric that the Turks desperately want back in Turkey.

There are a couple of subsidiary questions, I think, that we haven't talked about but that are critical.

Number one is ethics. If Gen. Flynn has a relationship -- a preexisting relationship with the Turks, when you go into an official position in the White House you ought to be declaring on paper what your previous relationships are so that when there are follow-on conversations with the Oval Office everybody knows Gen. Flynn may have a perspective on Turkey but he also had a preexisting relationship with the Turks.

The second subsidiary question I think is even more interesting. We had the Mueller team drop a 1001 violation -- that is lying to a federal officer -- two weeks ago on Papadopoulos. That's that individual who was part of the Trump team during the campaign.

The reason Gen. Flynn is worried is that if his son knows something embarrassing -- and his son will be interviewed separately by the FBI -- and his son lies during that interview -- I'm not saying he will, but I'm saying that's something that they should be concerned about -- then the Feds will drop a 1001 violation on him. That is, again, lying to a federal officer.

He ought to be worried that his son is completely truthful in that interview because Mueller has shown that he'll take you to the woodshed if you're not truthful.

CUOMO: Hey, that's a 1001 violation, a felony, you know. Carries, I think up to five years.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Are you going to go make me look it up?

CUOMO: No, no, no. I don't know why you don't like getting for information, by the way.

CAMEROTA: Getting more homework.

CUOMO: You know, some would say it's our job.

But what I'm saying is this. This -- I think that this is more by legal construction if he had this meeting. And you've got to put on if on it, right? They're going to have to vet it out.


CUOMO: But this is a discussion about a potential kidnapping plot of a legal resident of the United States. I mean, Sam, am I getting the analysis wrong? I mean, there's an extradition procedure for someone who's a legal resident here if you're going to return them to Turkey.

If he was saying let's cut a deal -- let's even take the money out of it. Let's say there was no money, or it wasn't for this, or let's just take it out of the equation.

OK, yes, I'll get him out the country. We'll put him on a private plane and we'll get him out of here and we'll go outside the normal procedure. I mean, why isn't that kidnapping?

VINOGRAD: Well, it definitely --

CUOMO: And it didn't happen, right? But I'm saying if that were the discussion.

VINOGRAD: What I can tell you is that when I was at the White House this was definitely not the sort of thing that we ever discussed when it came to bilateral relations with Turkey. We talked about leader- to-leader conversations and bilateral irritants, but we certainly didn't talk about cash exchanges to remove people from the United States and to ship them back to Turkey.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for that perspective. It's always a help to have somebody who was there at this stage we're on in the White House. Thank you very much, Samantha Vinograd and Phil Mudd.

New allegations seem to be coming out every day and the last 24 hours have been no different. Two more high-profile men accused of sexual misconduct. We talk about where we are in the culture today.


[07:37:46] CAMEROTA: In the past 24 hours, two more high-profile men have been accused of sexual misconduct.

GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore, who was accused of having an inappropriate relationship with a 14-year-old when he was in this thirties. Moore calls these allegations a political smear.

Also, five women have come forward in a "New York Times" report accusing comedian Louis C.K. of inappropriate sexual conduct. The Emmy-award winner has not responded to those allegations.

So let's talk about all of this. And joining us is Susan Ho. She spoke out about her experiences with sexual harassment in Silicon Valley at our town hall last night. We also have CNN legal analyst Areva Martin. Ladies, thank you so much.

I mean, the conversation just continues every day. I don't think I'm exaggerating, Areva, to say that there are new allegations. They come out against powerful men with almost household names every day.

So when you see now, Louis C.K. and what's being -- he's being accused of, and Judge Moore, what are your thoughts?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, COMMENTATOR, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL AFFAIRS, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes, you're right, Alisyn. I think you and I have been spending a lot of time together this week talking about these issues.

I think what struck me about the Louis C.K. story was hearing the women again talk about the fear of retribution. Talk about the fear of coming out in terms of what it would do for their careers.

And two other comediennes saying that they feel like their careers were actually impacted in a negative way because they did come out.

They said that there were conversations with his manager that they felt were threatening. Although the manager he said he never threatened them he didn't exactly deny talking with them and perhaps asking them to stop telling their stories of Louis C.K. masturbating in front of them in a hotel room. So, I think what one of the big takeaways from all of these stories is, is that even when women come out, the common theme is the fear. The fear of being isolated, ostracized, and their careers being ruined in ways that are irreparable.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, career suicide is, Susan, something that we have heard about that prevents women from telling -- sharing their stories.

You know the Silicon Valley culture well, so is it the same? Were these open secrets about people? I mean, with the Louis C.K. thing most of us didn't know this but people in the industry -- these female comediennes say that it was well known and it was an open secret.


Justin Caldbeck, who harassed me and my co-founder during our fundraising process -- we were raising money for a company -- you know, we found out that there were allegations against him that went back 10 years. And that there was actually a woman who at his previous V.C. fund had kicked him off of her board because he was propositioning her for sex.

CAMEROTA: I mean, if only you had known these things. You know, this is the thing about the silence and about the secrecy is that it ends up then creating other victims -- other accusers because you go into it blindly and don't know.

You asked a question last night the CNN town hall and I just want to play it for our viewers in case they missed it because, I mean, you say that this is the elephant in the room. So let's listen to this.


HO: How can America drive real progress in addressing sexual harassment of women and men in Silicon Valley, in Hollywood, in all industries, and in everyday places when we have a man sitting in the White House who's boasted on tape of grabbing women's crotches and is currently facing allegations of sexual harassment, himself?


CAMEROTA: Gretchen Carlson says she gets that question every day now that she's begun speaking out about sexual harassment.

Have you ever heard a good answer to that one?

HO: Not quite. You know, I asked the question because for me, it's not that we don't have laws in place. You know, we shouldn't have to have laws to dictate what common decency is, right?

CAMEROTA: But we do. I mean --

HO: So -- but, I mean, at the core of it, the culture is broken, right? We have a culture in which women in the workplace aren't seen as colleagues, as leaders, as equals. And, you know, when we see the message being sent out -- which is the message we want to send is that no matter how much money or power that you have you can't engage in this behavior. It's not OK and there will be consequences.

And so, how can we really be serious about that when the elephant in the room is -- hello -- who's sitting the White House right now?

CAMEROTA: Areva, what's the answer to that?

MARTIN: Well, the reality, Alisyn, is that powerful men have been and continue to be given the benefit of the doubt when we talk about sexual harassment and sexual assault.

When that tape came out with respect to Donald Trump when he was then- candidate Donald Trump, Christian conservatives were the first to give him the benefit of the doubt to talk about forgiveness and the reason that the country should not count him out as a candidate for presidency. And that continues to happen from the highest level in the White House to CEOs and other men in powerful positions.

Think about how long it takes for some of these stories to come forward. Some -- in some instances, we're talking about decades and decades of stories about abuse. And in many cases it takes women, not just one but multiple women to come forward before anyone starts to believe that these stories are true.

That's just something we have to continue to deal with, continue to fight against, both legislatively and from a culture change. And I think we're starting to see a breakthrough. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

And I'm hopeful as a civil rights lawyer. I've been involved in this kind of litigation for two decades now. Something feels different about this moment.

CAMEROTA: It sure does. I mean, when you see powerful men like Harvey Weinstein, like Roger Ailes, like Bill O'Reilly, like Kevin Spacey, like James Toback, you know, people are talking about it. They're naming names, people are losing their jobs. People are having to re-edit movies at great expense because they don't want the liability of having one of these men.

So, Susan, do you think this is a real tipping point? Does it feel the same way to you?

HO: I hope so. I hope that this drives real action and real change. And, you know, as we were talking about last night, it's not an issue that we, as women, can say hey, you know, we're going to talk about it, we're going to fix it. We need men to be just as involved in the solution.

And, you know, Matt McGorry was saying yesterday, if you are not actively doing something to address the problem, you're part of it.

CAMEROTA: Susan Ho, thank you very much for your question last night, thanks for taking part in the town hall, and thanks for making all of those points.

Areva Martin, great to see you. I'm sure we'll talk soon.

MARTIN: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Chris --

CUOMO: Well, you've got to keep it in the dialogue, otherwise it goes away.

And, Susan makes a really strong point. If men aren't involved in this the culture won't change. It just won't happen.

So, coming up, they go beyond the call every day. We get exclusive access to New York's hostage negotiation unit, next.


[07:47:30] CUOMO: The New York Police Department has an elite hostage negotiation unit and they were the first of their kind in law enforcement in the entire country.

CNN was given exclusive access to this team. They regularly go beyond the call of duty.

Here's Brynn Gingras with the story.


LT. CHRIS ZIMMERMAN, COMMANDER, NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATION TEAM: If they're wanted for a crime they will not come out of the house. They barricade themselves in.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you see here happens almost daily for Lt. Chris Zimmerman, head of the NYPD's hostage negotiation team.

CNN was given exclusive access to Zimmerman and his team of 125 negotiators. He's the only full-time officer in the unit and with 28 years on the job, Zimmerman could have retired nearly a decade ago.

ZIMMERMAN: I don't look for the easy way, never did. I also enjoy the challenge and I like feeling I can help somebody.

I will tell you that some of it is taxing. You talk to somebody, you create a bond, and all of a sudden you hear this person at their worst moment. They may be a father, they may be mother. And then what we look for is something that brings them back to reality.

Just try to calm this guy down and forget --

GINGRAS: And that's why Zimmerman says he handpicks the unit, only choosing negotiators who have experienced pain.

ZIMMERMAN: So I interviewed this guy and we're talking and I go, what makes you want to be a hostage investigator? He turns around, he looks at me, he starts crying. OK.

He goes my son is as big as me. He goes he's autistic with improvised explosive disorder. I've had to handcuff my own son four times. If you could do that, you could do anything.

GINGRAS: Last summer, Zimmerman found himself talking to this man as he tried to climb Trump Tower with suction cups.

ZIMMERMAN: So he starts talking to the kid. He responded a little bit. Thank God that emergency service detective reached out and grabbed him because I don't know how much longer he would have been able to manipulate himself.

GINGRAS: On this call, a man barricaded himself inside his apartment. He'd taken his girlfriend hostage. For our safety, we were kept a floor below where negotiators and tactical teams worked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's had a really, really violent history. While the victim is in there we've got to go get them out.

GINGRAS: After more than an hour of talking, detectives made the arrest. The man's girlfriend was found safe inside.

ZIMMERMAN: At the end of the day, it all comes up to human life. It's all about helping somebody who's in crisis.

GINGRAS (on camera): So in those moments do you feel like a hero?

[07:50:02] ZIMMERMAN: No. That's not what I signed up for. I do my job.

GINGRAS: Brynn Gingras, CNN, New York.


CAMEROTA: All right, incredible story.

So, victims of gun violence taking on politicians. You'll remember the father of that reporter who was gunned down on live T.V. Her name as Alison Parker. Well now, her father may be heading to Capitol Hill.


CAMEROTA: The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Republican Congressman Bob Goodlatte, says he will not run for reelection in 2018. Now, one of Goodlatte's most outspoken critics says he is considering running for Goodlatte's seat.

Andy Parker is the father of Alison Parker, a reporter who was shot on live T.V. two years ago. He has clashed with Goodlatte on the issue of control and he joins us now.

Mr. Parker, nice to see you.

ANDY PARKER, FATHER OF REPORTER KILLED ON LIVE T.V., GUN CONTROL ADVOCATE (via Skype): It's good to be talking with another Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And, you know, my dad's name was Andy, so I have always thought of you because obviously what happened to your daughter Alison was so sickening and so hideous and it touched so many of us in the news industry and beyond that something like this would happen.

And, Mr. Parker, I remember talking to you, I mean, immediately after Alison was murdered and you said what so many victims say, which is I won't let this be in vain. I won't let my daughter's -- my daughter have been murdered for nothing. I'm going to take some action.

But here you are. I mean, you actually have done that. You did take this moment and regalvanize by it. So where are you today?

[07:55:00] PARKER: Well, I'm still fighting the fight. And, you know, I'll tell you, the musings that I had about considering a run, never saying never, it sure created quite a buzz.

But I've got to tell you, Alisyn, I'm a long way from throwing my hat in the ring. There's hurdles that I have to consider and chief of which is whether I can be more effective as an advocate to help elect other progressive candidates across the commonwealth and the country versus being one member of Congress.

And frankly, I would -- if I could wave the magic wand I'd clone Chris Hurst who just won a delegate seat in rural Virginia and put him in there to run because he's just a terrific young man and would be an awesome candidate.

CAMEROTA: Well, we interviewed him on NEW DAY this week and, of course, he was Alison's boyfriend.

PARKER: Right.

CAMEROTA: And he, too, in the middle of his grief -- I mean, at the most grief-stricken moment said that he, too, was going to take some action. And look at this. I mean, he won. He's now going to the statehouse.

So -- but what is it that's stopping you? I mean, I understand that you said that maybe you could be a more effective advocate but wouldn't that be a great platform for you to have Bob Goodlatte's seat?

PARKER: You know, in some ways, it would. In some ways it's -- you know, just -- again, being just one member of Congress versus doing the kinds of things that I'm doing and speaking out across the country. I -- it would be difficult to leave that piece of it.

So, you know, plus there are family considerations. I don't even live in the district, I live nearby. So it would -- it would be that piece of it as well.

And I think that, again, I frankly would prefer to see someone like Sam Rasoul who is a delegate at Roanoke. He lives there, he's got a good name, recognition. You know, someone like that to step up and run.

But I've got to tell you, either way, a Democrat has to take that seat because the two of -- the two candidates on the Republican side that have announced.

And one guy, Ben Cline, he makes Goodlatte look like Bernie Sanders. He is so extreme -- such a -- just an extreme right-winger. It's the kind of person that Virginia voters completely rejected last Tuesday.

And that blue tidal wave shows that maybe there is a tipping point out there that, you know, per your earlier segment.


PARKER: I think people are waking up and saying you know, stuff has got to change.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Well listen, I mean, as I said, the story of your daughter's murder was so shocking we couldn't have conceived of it before it actually happened --

PARKER: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- that someone who tried to tape it -- but then, I mean, my point is, is that since then there's been so many more hideous, shocking instances of gun violence. And I can tick through them from Las Vegas to just, you know, last weekend's Texas, to Orlando.

How do you explain where we are with gun violence in this country?

PARKER: Well, it's because -- and I've written about this before. This shouldn't be a partisan issue but it is. And the only way for us to make change in this country is to get the NRA-backed politicians which, you know, 99 percent of them are Republicans. You've got to get them out of the -- get them out of office and that's how you make change.

And I think that, again, what we saw on Tuesday in Virginia, no one expected that. But I think that's part of this change that is coming. And I think that's -- maybe that's the tipping point.

We all keep saying well, you know, after Sandy Hook, after Aurora, after --


PARKER: -- you know, Las Vegas. Where was the tipping point? I think Tuesday is a good indicator.

CAMEROTA: Well, Andy Parker, we wish you the best of luck. We'll be following whatever you choose to do. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story with us.

PARKER: Thanks for having me. It's good to be with you again.

CAMEROTA: You, too. We're following a lot of news so let's get to it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These women agreed to speak publicly to show there's another side to Roy Moore.

CUOMO: President Trump calling for Roy Moore to step aside if the allegations are true.

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: "The Washington Post" that dropped that dime on Trump dropped a dime on Judge Roy Moore. Is that a coincidence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was his first project and it has blown up on the Republican Party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he continues to stand, the chances of a Democrat picking up that seat go up considerably.

CAMEROTA: The White House announcing President Trump will not hold a formal sit-down with Vladimir Putin.

ZELENY: A Kremlin spokesman said there would be a meeting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russia clearly involved itself to change the American election leads up the question is there a crime committed?


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your new day.