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NEW DAY SATURDAY
Kushner Testified He Did Not Recall Contacts With WikiLeaks But Senators Say He Did Receive E-mail About WikiLeaks Contact; Mueller Targets British Publicist Over Trump Tower Meeting; Eighth Woman Claims Roy Moore Groped Her; Trump Still Silent On Moore As 8th Accuser Comes Forward; Panetta: Bill Clinton "More Than Paid The Price" For Actions; Mugabe's Downfall A Warning To Other African Strongmen. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired November 18, 2017 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:00] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Our top story this morning, the cloud of the Russia investigation is once again hanging over the White House. The president's son-in-law and Senior Adviser, Jared Kushner, accused of lying under oath about his contacts with Russia.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Authorities tell CNN that in his testimony to Congress, Kushner said he never communicated with WikiLeaks and did not know anyone of the Trump campaign who had. But a new report shows Kushner did receive an e-mail about WikiLeaks and he forwarded it to another campaign official.
PAUL: I want to get straight to CNN's Abby Phillips outside the White House. Abby, good morning to you. Talk to us about the significance of this.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christi, lying to Congress would be a serious crime and perjury -- and that's what some Democrats are accusing Jared Kushner of doing. But his lawyers are firing back at the Senate Judiciary Committee in a fiery message to them, a statement to them yesterday, essentially saying they have asked their client a "classic got-you question."
They wrote: "Mr. Kushner was asked if he had contacts with WikiLeaks, Guccifer, or D.C. Leaks and said no. He also said that he did not know of such contacts by the campaign. From all, I have now seen, his statement was accurate then as it is now. In over six hours of voluntary testimony, Mr. Kushner answered all questions put to him and demonstrated that there had been no collusion between the campaign and Russia."
But we know, as you just pointed out, that Kushner did, in fact, received an e-mail from Don Jr. about his contacts with WikiLeaks. He then forwarded that e-mail to other officials. The issue at hand here is whether Kushner was essentially splitting hairs, saying that he did not remember or was not aware of that e-mail at the time that he testified.
Either way, this comes as Kushner has had to really re-evaluate some of the claims that he made on his SF-86 form -- that's the form that he needs in order to get a security clearance here in the White House. He's had to amend that over 100 times with incorrect omissions and missed meetings. Some Democrats right now are calling for his security clearances to be revoked.
PAUL: All right. Abbey Phillips, we appreciate it so much. Thank you.
BLACKWELL: All right. Let's talk about. Margaret Talev, CNN Political Analyst and Senior White House Correspondent at Bloomberg News joins us, along with John Donnelly, Senior Writer at Roll Call, and Michael Zeldin, CNN Legal Analyst and former Special Assistant to Robert Mueller at the Department of Justice. Good morning to all.
MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AT BLOOMBERG NEWS: Good morning.
BLACKWELL: Margaret, let me start with you, and I want you to listen to Democratic Congressman, Ted Lieu.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: This is not the first time Jared Kushner has done this. He made two false and misleading security clearance applications, all of which conveniently omitted information related to Russia. So, either Jared Kushner had massive selective amnesia on Russia or he did something bad last year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Margaret, how does this keep happening -- amending form after amending form, and, I guess, forgotten or omitted communications from Jared Kushner?
TALEV: Yes. I mean, it's become, sort of, one of the hallmarks of the way this investigation has proceeded. What Jared Kushner's lawyer is conveying is the idea that he doesn't have to broadly answer a question that gets to, well, what did the congressional -- what did the lawmakers mean. You know what we meant, we wanted anything that had anything to do with this. The lawyer's statement indicates that they're going to answer the question to the letter of the question.
And if, if the question is: did you have communications with and what really happened is, an e-mail got forwarded about somebody who wanted to do something, they're not going to treat that as communications. That might work. They may end up right back in front of the committees under oath this time, and maybe in public testimony. It shows two things, it shows that congressional lawmakers are not satisfied at this point. And it shows that it's going to redouble the efforts of everyone, particularly on the Mueller side to try to get, kind of parallel track information to cross-check it against the sort of, very narrow answers that can be expected now from Mr. Kushner.
BLACKWELL: Michael, let me bring that to you because it doesn't seem like it's working for Senate investigators. Abbe Lowell, Jared Kushner's Attorney, says that this was a "classic got-you question." Do you expect it will work for Robert Mueller? MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO
ROBERT MUELLER: Well, I expect that their response to Mueller's questions will be different than their response to the questions from the Hill. First, I expect that Mueller will ask more precise questions than the Hill has asked. And I think that Abbe Lowell believes that the only person that he really has to worry about is Mueller.
Because, after all, unless Congress is going to hold Jared Kushner in contempt, which the Republican majority in each of these committees that people have testified before don't seem to have an appetite for, that's not his legal worry. And as a lawyer, I think Abbe properly is saying I'm instructing my client to answer the questions that have been asked of him, and not volunteer additional information. That's good, legal counsel.
Whether it is good P.R. is another matter. But again, Lowell's job is to protect the liberty of his client and the liberty of his client is jeopardized only by Mueller. So, we'll see how it progresses. The one thing that's a little bit confusing about the Lowell statement is he said he knows of nobody in the campaign who had any contacts with WikiLeaks. That doesn't seem to be correct any longer. And so, we'll see how that gets amended.
[07:05:34] BLACKWELL: So, John, to you, this e-mail reported from The Atlantic came from Don Trump Jr. to Jared Kushner, but it's also significant who then received it after Kushner. He sent it on to Hope Hicks, someone who is very close to the president, especially in the context that President Trump does not now, and has not in the past used e-mail himself.
JOHN DONNELLY, SENIOR WRITER, ROLL CALL: Yes. I mean, it's pretty clear that in this and other documents that there were senior people in the White House who were made aware of it. And I had the same reaction as Michael when I saw the lawyer's statement.
It's pretty hard to believe that he could -- that he could actually put in black and white that Kushner was not aware of the WikiLeaks communications with Donald Trump Jr. He was C.C.'d on it. And he was also aware of the -- of the attempts to -- earlier in 2016 to set up a meeting between Trump and Putin. And there were other documents, by the way, that the Judiciary Committee and this is a bipartisan approach from the Judiciary Committee.
They were looking for the transcript of Kushner's testimony to intelligence panels, and they also made a reference to, sort of, vague reference to phone records that have not been producing. And they also said, if you are asserting an executive privilege, which apparently Kushner's lawyers are, you at least have to tell us what the nature of the documents are so that we have a record of that. So, there's a whole list of things that they want that they haven't gotten.
BLACKWELL: Margaret, do expect we'll see Jared Kushner back on Capitol Hill testifying on the rope again? TALEV: I think it's likely because they have laid down the principle
that they will be cooperative and continue to cooperate. And at least on a Congressional Democratic side, there's a lot appetite for that. But I think there are enough questions down among Republicans, there's a good chance we will.
BLACKWELL: All right. Margaret Talev, John Donnelly, Michael Zeldin, stay with us, we've got more to talk about.
PAUL: Well, he was the first to e-mail Donald Trump Jr. about a campaign meeting last year with the Russian lawyer. Now, Robert Mueller's team wants British Publicist, Rob Goldstone, to come to the U.S. to talk with the special counsel.
BLACKWELL: Also, jokes from Jeff Sessions over the Russia investigation gets a room full of laughs as he starts off the speech with some conservative lawyers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Any Russians?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[07:12:08] PAUL: Well, a source tells CNN, Special Counsel Robert Mueller is now talking to the attorney for the man who set up the 2016 meeting in Trump Tower -- that's getting so much scrutiny. The meeting has been one of the focal points, of course, of the Russian investigation. It was attended by eight people -- among them, Eric, Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer.
Rob Goldstone is the man we're talking about, though. The British publicist who first reached out to Donald Trump Jr. to arrange this meeting. And now investigators want him to come to America to talk to Robert Mueller's team.
Bringing back our panels here: Margaret Talev, John Donnelly, and Michael Zeldin thank you all for sticking around for us. Margaret, first of all, what can Goldstone contribute to this conversation? What dots might he be able to connect here?
TALEV: Ron Goldstone has been one of the most interesting, kind of, figures in this investigation. Of course, he's a music publicist and wanted his client who is an Azerbaijani-born pop singer, whose father is a Russian oligarch -- and it was through those connections that he reached out to Don Trump Jr. in terms of setting up this meeting.
This June meeting 2016, that has become, kind of, one of the pivotal dates around which Mueller's team seems to be focusing. And this is, of course, the meeting with Natalia Veselnitskaya, and was it adoption, was it Hillary, was it all of the above? What happened, who was there, why were they contacted? He can, in theory, fill in a lot of the gaps and create, again, a
parallel narrative to the version of the story that several of the people who are key to the campaign or still in the administration have submitted their own versions of the narrative about. So, he, potentially, could be an important figure, if and when he does come to Capitol Hill.
PAUL: Yes, to clarify some of those things, and that's the big question, Michael. Goldstone's lawyer tells CNN, there's nothing on the books right now, nothing scheduled for him to come in. They're asking him to come voluntarily. Do believe that will happen? And if he does not, do you believe that Mueller will subpoena him?
ZELDIN: Mueller could conceivably send him a subpoena, but that's not to say that he's going to get him into the United States. So, he's a foreign national living outside of the United States. So, getting him here is the hard part, and so it may be just the powers of persuasion to get him here.
What he is important about, mostly, is his e-mail -- his initial e- mails were: we have dirt for you on Hillary. So, the whole predicate of the meeting was the giving of this information that he was the conduit of. So, understanding what was it that he had in his mind, what it was that actually was delivered if anything, and what it was that Donald Trump Jr. intended to do with it is the -- at the heart of what June 9th meeting was about.
So, if we can get him here, and if he testifies honestly, then we can, you know, perhaps make some conclusions about the June 9th meeting -- by getting him here and the prospect of him testifying honestly are two big ifs.
[07:15:18] PAUL: All right. So, John, to you: do you believe that there are any indications that this man will talk candidly and openly?
DONNELLY: Well, I really couldn't answer that one. But I am fascinated by the role of all these intermediaries in connecting Russians to the Trump campaign. There's another intermediary was involved in setting up a meeting that didn't happen between Putin and Trump.
And there again, there's some deniability built in there when you have one or more intermediaries who can make the connection, but I completely understand why Mueller would be interested, right? I mean, this person, presumably, would have some level of knowledge of why the Russians are interested in contacting the Trump Campaign officials and vice versa. To what degree are Trump people interested in receiving, "dirt"?
PAUL: So, Michael, if he does not talk willingly, even if he -- he had to say he refuses to be candid, what does that tell you about where this could go?
ZELDIN: Well, for anyone who's involved in this meeting, if they come here and they lie under oath, then theoretically they are prosecutable for those lies assuming, again, we have jurisdiction over the person that they're here. And in respect of what Don Jr. said, what we have to test is the recollections of other people versus Don Jr.'s recollections. Because already we've had differences between Veselnitskaya's response to what occurred at the meeting, she has two different responses that are conflicting, and they can flip a bit with Don Jr.'s account.
And then, we have Kushner's accounts in the meeting -- we haven't heard from Manafort about the meeting, particularly in detail if he was the one who supposedly took notes. So, in order to figure out what happened there, and was this the hatching of the collusive relationship or the beginnings of what became the September relationship between Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks? All this stuff has interrelationships between them, and that Mueller needs to figure out in order to determine has anyone lied, was their collusive agreements, did people receive stolen property, did they disseminate hack materials -- all that's at the heart of this. So, it's really important from a legal standpoint.
PAUL: Russia did come up earlier this week from A.G. Jeff Sessions and The Federalist (INAUDIBLE) what he was speaking. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SESSIONS: But I just was faking. You know, I said, I want to ask you, is Ambassador Kislyak in the room before I get started here? Any Russians?
SESSIONS: Anybody been to Russia? Of course, there is Russia or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Michael, I see you chuckling a little bit, but Margaret and John not so much. Margaret, there's been some criticism that this was not exactly appropriate, your take?
TALEV: It read to me on the camera like a joke that has been prepared and vetted and one that he, kind of, planned to tell -- and it was an audience that was respected to it. Of course, General Sessions' position, the administration's position is that this is all ridiculous, this is all been Trumped up to make it look like something conspiratorial when it really wasn't, and that's the point of making a joke about it. But the issue, of course, has been not that he was in a room with Russians, but that he has -- there were several times where these meetings or the scope of the contacts were not disclosed until much later, and her testimony has changed.
So, this is a concerted effort by the attorney general to try to diminish the criticisms, the questions about it, and it plays well in the federal society room. It plays, obviously, terribly, among certain congressional lawmakers. And in the middle, I think, it doesn't really change anything. I mean, the -- what's the issue are the facts, not necessarily the way it spun. But right now, he needs to send a message to President Trump that he is not going to, sort of, back down from this position of defending the way he's handled things so far. And I think that's what you see play out in that joke.
PAUL: All righty. Margaret Talev, John Donnelly, Michael Zeldin, thank you all so much for being with us.
ZELDIN: Thank you.
[07:19:58] BLACKWELL: An eighth woman has come forward accusing GOP Alabama Senate Nominee, Roy Moore, of sexual misconduct. She's accused Moore of grabbing in 1991. We'll hear more details about what she said happened, next.
PAUL: So good to have you with us, I'm Christi Paul.
BLACKWELL: Happy Saturday to you, I'm Victor Blackwell.
PAUL: So, we're talking about the Roy Moore scandal today, and it seems to be getting a bit worse this morning as an eighth woman has now come forward telling CNN's Erin Burnett: the Republican Alabama Senate Candidate acted inappropriately with her when she was 28 years old. She said, it's happened in 1991, he grabbed her buttocks when she had been in his office regarding a child custody battle with her mother. Listen to what she told Erin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TINA JOHNSON, ROY MOORE ACCUSER: He proceeds to come to the end of the desk and really close up on me.
[07:25:14] ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: You said so close, so you could sort of feel his breath?
JOHNSON: Right. Actually, I think his knee might've been touching my knee. You know he was -- his hand was not on me, it's just like maybe his knee was brushing mine or something. And then, when it was time for us to leave, my mother had got up and left the room -- you know, took a rest their work. Well, when he -- she was going out the door, and obviously get out, and he just grabbed me from behind on my buttocks and he just squeezed it really hard. And I remember thinking, I'm so ashamed. I felt humiliated in that moment. It took everything out of me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Now, Roy Moore has not responded to repeated requests for comment on Johnson's allegations. He has vehemently denied, though, the other women's allegations against him. And despite all of these allegations, Moore's wife says he does not plan to quit this race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLA MOORE, WIFE OF ROY MOORE: Even after all the attacks against me, against my family, against the foundation, and now against my husband, he will not step down.
K. MOORE: He will not stop fighting for the people of Alabama. In his words, and I quote, "I will not stop until they lay me in that box on the ground."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Reverend Mike Allison from the Addison Baptist Church with us now from Alabama. He is a Roy Moore supporter. Reverend, thank you for being with us again, we appreciate it. First of all, your reaction to these new allegations from Tina Johnson?
MIKE ALLISON, REVEREND, ADDISON BAPTIST CHURCH: Well, they're allegations. I don't know if I can say anything more about it.
PAUL: Do you believe that that, or do you believe her story?
ALLISON: I don't know. As I said last week, I do believe Judge Moore. He's not spoken yet, this particular one. But everything to me just about the whole political season, the timing, everything, I'm sorry, it just smacks to a lot of Alabamians as political (INAUDIBLE). And that's how a lot of Alabamians look at it.
PAUL: A lot of people look at this and say, there is no doubt the timing of this does seem questionable. You are right about that, but we now have an eighth woman here who's telling a story and she said, I didn't tell my story before, when you asked about timing because she said people didn't want to hear it. Do you believe that that is -- that could certainly be true? Had she brought it up back in the day and she now feels emboldened to do it because she's hearing from other women.
ALLISON: Well, I don't know what to make of an allegation yet, I would like to hear from Judge Moore. Obviously, if her statement was true, it is inappropriate.
PAUL: If a member of your congregation, and you being a reverend, certainly must have people who come to you with very private concerns, how would you counsel that person? Would you give them the benefit of the doubt?
ALLISON: Well, yes, I would deal with it. As far as if they came to me with a problem, as their pastor, I would have to, you know, leave them with what their options are, what they could do, so on. I'd do the best I could. Obviously, one of the things that would be done is we would talk to the person that supposedly they had a problem with.
PAUL: I want to listen here with you to Roy Moore last week when he was on with Sean Hannity. Let's listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Do you remember dating girls that young at that time?
ROY MOORE, REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Not generally, no. If I did, you know, I'm not going to dispute anything but I don't remember anything like that.
HANNITY: Would it be a normal behavior back in those days for you to date a girl that's 17 or 18?
MOORE: No, not normal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: It's not an adamant denial necessarily. Do you see -- is there any part of you that pauses here? Do you see a pattern?
ALLISON: I'm not sure where you're going with that.
PAUL: Do you see a -- do you see a pattern with Roy Moore dating younger girls? And when he said, no, I generally didn't date them. I mean, it's not absolutely this-did-not-happen statement. I'm just wondering where your, where your thoughts are with Moore now that we have an eighth person coming out making some accusations against him that are very uncomfortable.
ALLISON: I agree the accusations would be uncomfortable but going back 40 years to Roy Moore's date life, the ages of the women he dated or the young ladies that he dated, from what I understand what I've heard is that they were at least 16. And I do know this, in the state of Alabama at that time, 16 was legal.
[07:30:06] PAUL: Is legal. You're right, it is the age of consent, you're right. But real quickly, do you think we should hear from Roy Moore about all of these accusations, not just some of them?
ALLISON: Well, as far as I know, the only one he hasn't dealt with is this newest one, because it's just come out. But he's made very clear statements about the others.
PAUL: All right, we appreciate you so much being here, Reverend Allison, thank you.
ALLISON: All right, thank you.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm good a bit of directive from the desk. But if Reverend Allison, can we tap him back up. Reverend Allison, this is Victor Blackwell, here. I've got a question for you, just one quick question. Is there a biblical contradiction in a 32- year-old man dating a 16-year-old -- dating a 16-year-old girl?
ALLISON: I can't think if a verse that deals with that.
BLACKWELL: OK. That's all I wanted to know. Thank you very much, Pastor. ALLISON: All right --
BLACKWELL: Let me bring in now Symone Sanders, CNN Political Commentator, and former National Press Secretary for Bernie, 2016 and Andre Bauer, CNN Political Commentator and former Lieutenant Governor of South Carolina. Good morning to both of you and Simone, first, your response to what you just heard from Reverend Allison?
SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think it's concerning and it definitely gives me pause. When it comes back to something that we've been discussing on CNN for a few days now, and that, a lot of times, women who have been, not just women because many have been victims of sexual assault as well. People who are victims of any form of sexual assault, sexual micro aggressions sexual harassment, they sometimes, a lot of times they have trouble coming forward because the burden of proof is on the victim.
And when you have folks who are pastors and they -- and other powerful people in the community who say the things you just heard the reverend say, it definitely gives folks pause and it -- and it just lets me understand even more why folks have such a tough time coming forward.
BLACKWELL: All right, let me put up this new Fox News poll, the latest numbers out of Alabama. It has the Democrat in this race, Doug Jones, eight points ahead of Roy Moore at 42. I heard a chuckle there. What do you think about this?
SANDERS: I don't believe this poll. I think what we're seeing here is what we saw in the general election where folks were hesitant to identify as Trump supporters in the polling. But then, you saw folks go to the polls and vote for Donald Trump. I think that's what we're seeing here. Folks are hesitant to identify as Roy Moore supporters.
Alabama is a -- is a really -- is a different electoral map. And frankly, you have a lot of moderate Republicans that would have to pull the lever for Doug Jones in addition to having black turnout be somewhere upwards around 28 percent in a special election for Doug Jones to emerge victorious. So, not saying that it can't be done but the numbers definitely don't add up right now.
BLACKWELL: Andre, now, to you, I know we had an audio issue. Can you hear me?
ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I do hear you, Victor, good morning.
BLACKWELL: All right, good morning to you. Andre, first, let me go to this, late in the week, President Trump tweeted about Al Franken and his admission of when we saw the picture involving of a television host that he was on a USO tour within and some inappropriate touching there. And she claims that he also kissed her without her consent. The President tweeted about that but has not said anything about Roy Moore. When the White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders, was pressed on that, here's what she said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He has weighed in on Roy Moore. He did it while he was on a foreign trip in Asia. I did it repeatedly yesterday. In fact, that took about 15 questions on that topic and only one on Al Franken. So, to suggest that this White House and specifically that this President hasn't weighed in, is just inaccurate and wrong. He weighed in, he said, if the allegations are true, he should step aside. He also weighed in when he supported the RNC's decision to withdraw resources from the State of Alabama. It's just a simply inaccurate statement to make about the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Well, to be clear, what the President said on Air Force One during his Asia trip was that he would learn more about it when he got back. He was watching a lot of -- were reading a lot of documents, wasn't really watching much television, traveling so much. Why hasn't the President, as directly as he came out about Al Franken, come out and spoke about Roy Moore?
BAUER: Well, he has said, look, if he's guilty of this, then he should step down. Keep in mind, this wasn't President Trump's even nominee or preferred nominee. He supported his opponent but I think he says unlike Franken, who's admitted to it, which I think Franken did actually absolutely phenomenal job in going ahead in addressing the issue. But Roy Moore has absolutely denied these allegations. So, and I think he should get his fair opportunity, whether it be in the court system or some way to defend himself. And the President said, look if he's guilty, fine. Then, he should step down. But if he's not, he should not be falsely accused. So, I think everybody feels like that Mr. Moore should have his day to defend himself.
BLACKWELL: All right, let me come to you, Symone, again. Bakari Sellers has called for Al Franken to resign. Do you think he should?
SANDERS: Look, I think, we need to have the same -- the same consequences across the board of this issue. If we want to address and attack the system, and if we're saying that folks who have participated, committed -- you know, committed an egregious act. Who have made someone a victim, we are saying that all of those people have no place serving in our, you know, highest deliberative body, the greatest deliberative body in the land. And, yes, then we should have -- but we need to have the same -- the same thing across the board. So, talks are calling for Al Franken to step down. We also or we going to get President Trump's resignation papers because he has also been accused.
BLACKWELL: Are you going -- do you think that, that Al Franken should step down?
SANDERS: You know, yes, I absolutely do. Because we need to have the same standard across the board.
BLACKWELL: All right, Symone Sanders, Andre Bauer. Thank you very much.
And when we come back, Hillary Clinton says, both Senate candidate Roy Moore and President Trump could learn a lot about responsibility from Senator Al Franken, as Moore sexual assault allegation begin to surface on Capitol Hill. You'll hear from her, next.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: This was a painful time, not only in our marriage but in our country, as I've written about. But it was investigated fully, it was addressed at the time he was held accountable. That is very different than what people seem to be remembering from that period because you can go back and look at the history.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PAUL: That was Hillary Clinton on WABC Radio, responding to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand's remarks that former President Bill Clinton should have resigned over the Monica Lewinsky affair.
Now, this is coming amid of growing national conversation over sexual harassment and misconduct. In Congress, in line of the allegation against Senate candidate Roy Moore and Senator Al Franken. Now, back with me, we have Andre Bauer.
Andre, let's listen together here to former Chief of Staff to President Obama, Leon Panetta, and what he said about the issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON PANETTA, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: My own judgment with regards to President Clinton is that he more than paid the price for what he did. The fact that he went through an impeachment process as President of the United States, the House of Representatives voted for articles of impeachment. The Senate did not, but the mere fact that he went through an impeachment process as President means that there will always be a shadow on the legacy of his Presidency. So, at least, from my point of view, I think he's more than paid the price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: That's a point of view a lot of people have brought up. He was impeached, it didn't go by the wayside. Do you think accountability would look different today, Andre?
BAUER: Well, it would look a different today because the makeup of the United States Senate, he probably would not prevail but he did go through the legal process. He fought, he stuck it out. I'm sure it was very painful for him. At the end of the day, he went through the process that we as Americans have.
And so, you know, he was held accountable. The American people know what he did, and he did somewhat admit to it. You know, that's our process. It doesn't always work out like some of us would like for it do but he did go through the legal process. PAUL: Symone, the same question to you. Do you think that if the same thing would happen today and we look back at what happened in that day, the accountability today would be different in this climate?
SANDERS: I think the accountability would be different in this climate. You know, I was -- am only 27 years old but, you know, I read the news and I've been on google. And I know that the accusers, that President Clinton accuses and everything surrounding that, they were not handled in the way in which accusers have been handled by the media today.
Meaning that the -- no one -- that people did this not automatically assume that President Clinton's accusers were went telling the truth, to nor did they give them the benefit of the doubt. They were lampooned in the media, and therewith we just really taken down. And now, we are in a climate where it is more -- it is a healthier climate for folks to come forward and tell their truth and their stories. So, as all we think it would be -- it would be different. But I do think that President Clinton absolutely paid a price for his entire situation and the fact of the matter was still talking about it today. It can never escape him.
PAUL: Yes, I want to listen with you here to Hillary Clinton, as well, as she talked about the issue of credibility.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CLINTON: When credible allegations come forward, look at the contrast between Al Franken, accepting responsibility, apologizing and Roy Moore and Donald Trump, who have done neither.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PAUL: All right, I would be remiss to not point out one thing. There's a picture of Franken here. There is no tangible evidence in these other cases, though there do seem to be patterns that are evident. But with the coupled with what she just said, Andre, do you think the allegations we are seeing are credible? The allegation against Roy Moore against Donald Trump.
BAUER: Yes, again, this is a touchy situation. The more that come forward, the more it becomes that you question it. Again, I don't want to put anybody and find them guilty without their opportunity to defend them self. But the more people that come forward, the more it becomes more difficult for him to overcome this. So, at the end of the day, the voters of Alabama were going to make that decision.
PAUL: Symone, Bakari Sellers said earlier this week that Democrats -- they have some cleanup to do in their own House. How do they do that at this point?
SANDERS: I mean, it's not just Democrats. Its Democrats, Republicans, Independents. The issue of our sexual culture, sexual assault, sexual microaggressions is not a partisan issue. And so, I think, the way we -- in a -- as a whole, move forward and have to be committed to changing the system and really holding people accountable across the board. So, that is how we get started but we do not have different standards for some and other standard for others.
PAUL: All right, Symone Sanders, Andre Bauer, thank you both so much for being here. We appreciate your talk as always.
BLACKWELL: And part of the conversation, Florida's Democratic Party leader has resigned after allegations that he treated women in an inappropriate and demeaning manner. Now, this is according to POLITICO, that six female former staffers said Stephen Bittel created an unprofessional workplace environment for woman including persistent inappropriate comments that leering at young women. Now, these excusers -- they're names had not been reported. As Stephen Bittel was elected party chair in January.
PAUL: Well, take a look at what's happening in Zimbabwe. People there say they can taste the victory, they believe it in that close. Thousands of marchers flooding the streets today, ready for what could be the imminent fall of a long-time dictator, David.
Paul: Looks like elation, doesn't it? And a bit of chaos. A bit a lot of anticipation there in the streets of Zimbabwe this morning. Right now, you see the massive crowd as they've taken over the streets, singing, dancing, they're hugging soldiers. This elation comes as tens of thousands of citizens expect the imminent fall of their longtime President Robert Mugabe.
BLACKWELL: No, he's been in power for 37 years now, despite international pressure for him to step down, including from his own Party. CNN's David McKenzie is there in Harare among of the huge crowds that --
David, this is a hugely significant moment potentially not just for Mugabe or Zimbabwe, in spite for the other strong men across the continent.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Victor. It's a massive day today in Zimbabwe because yesterday we would never be able to set out on the streets and do a live shot with you because the security services could have come and grabbed us. But today, thousands on the streets, tens of thousands, perhaps, calling for 93-year-old Robert Mugabe, the leader of this country that most people have known to step down.
He's holed up in defensing. We learned from a source, negotiating to get him out of power. We've had people shaking hands, taking selfies, giving fist bumps to soldiers on the heavily armed army personnel carriers. A royal see change as well as supports from the people for the military. And you're hearing everyone here with a unified voice, calling for Robert Mugabe to be step down.
He has ruled this country for nearly four decades with an iron fist at times. But the military is saying he must move out. One source telling us if he doesn't go quietly, we'll have to do it the hard way. But still on the streets throughout the street and in the squares, and at the State House, they're holed up. The people are trying to use their voices to spread up and trying to persuade this leader to step aside. For now its hassle but a huge anticipation to see what this leader will do, Victor.
PAUL: All right, David McKenzie, thank you so much for the live report.
BLACKWELL: President Trump has put a big game trophy decision on hold. He will enforce for now a federal ban on hunters importing trophies of elephants killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia. He tweeted his announcement, Friday, saying he needs to further review conservation facts, he put them.
The Trump administration originally lifted the restrictions on endangered animals and moving heavily criticized because of the elephants dwindling population.
End of the next hour, remarks White House Senior Adviser Jared Kushner made about WikiLeaks are being called in a question. What he said and more importantly, what he did not say.
PAUL: But first, the family dog may soon have a high-tech way to be man's best friend. Researchers had developing some technology here that will help dogs touch assistance when a humans have medical emergencies. A CNN's Jaqueline Howard visit some tourist friend, testing those devices.
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH, FEATURE WRITER: This Border Collie is testing a device that could eventually let dogs alert 911 when its owners in distress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go get help!
HOWARD: The dog taps a color pattern and signals for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good job.
CLINT ZEAGLER, RESEARCH SCIENTIST, GEORGIA TECH COLLEGE OF DESIGN: This uses IRR Infra-red technology. This allows the screen to get a little messy but still be functional and be able to be used.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good boy.
HOWARD: Researchers are finding ways to help all dogs, big and small to communicate when their owners need help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My owner needs your attention, please follow me.
MELODY M. JACKSON, DIRECTOR, GEORGIA TECH FIDO PROJECT: Dogs naturally as puppies can pull things they can touch things with their noses, they can hold things in their mouth, they can bite things. So, we just taught them, OK, you're going to do that behavior you already know on the sensor that you're wearing.
HOWARD: For a people with certain medical conditions, the technology could be a lifesaver.
JACKSON: A person with diabetes can have an episode where they become very disoriented and they might not be able to make a phone call or call 911. So, extremely important that the dogs can do that. These creatures are man's best friend for a reason.
ANNOUNCER: "TECH-ING CARE OF YOUR HEALTH," brought to you by America's Bio-Pharmaceutical Companies. Go boldly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jared Kushner told congressional investigators that he did not communicate --