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Trump Breaks Silence, Defends Roy Moore; Putin & Trump Discuss Syria & North Korea; David Cassidy, '70s Teen Heartthrob, Dies At Age 67; CBS, PBS Fire Veteran Journalist Charlie Rose; Mladic Faces Charges Of Genocide & Other War Crimes. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired November 22, 2017 - 02:00   ET



[02:00:27] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANHCOR: Hello to our viewers in United States and around the world. I'm Isha Sesay live in Los Angeles with just turned 10:00 to 11:00 Tuesday night on the west coast.

For weeks, the White House ducked questions about Republican Senate candidate, Roy Moore. But U.S. President Donald Trump is breaking his silence and all but endorsing the embattled politician as he left for Thanksgiving Holiday.

And Mr. Trump urged Alabama voters to reject most Democratic challenger Doug Jones.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can tell you one thing for sure, we don't need a liberal person in there, a Democrat Jones. I've looked his record. It's terrible in crime. It's terrible on the boarder. It's terrible in the military.

I can tell you for a fact, we do not need somebody that's going to be bad on crime, bad on boarders, bad with the military, bad for the second amendment.


SESAY: Well, several women had accused Moore for suing them when they were teenagers and he was in his 30s. Several others accused them of assault. It unites all the allegations. And President Trump says, that's enough for him.


TRUMP: Look, he denies it. I mean if you look at what is really going on, when you look at all the things that have happen over the last 48 hours. He totally denied it. He says it didn't happen. And you know, you have to listen to him also.


SESAY: Well, joining us now CNN Political Commentator Democratic Specialist Dave Jacobson and Republican Consultant John Thomas and also with us CNN Legal Analyst and Civil Right Attorney Areva Martin. Welcome to you all.

Dave, let me start with you. It was a remarkable day. President Trump throwing his support behind Roy Moore, a man accused of sexual misconduct involving teenagers. Let me ask you, what did you make of it?

DAVID JACOBSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're right. It was an extraordinary moment. And I think it was essentially an example of Donald Trump anchoring himself to a child molester. And I think Democrats are going to use this as an opportunity to brand the GOP as the party that embraces and endorses sexual predators.

What really struck me was, Michael Steele's comments today. He's the former Republican National Committee chair. He called the move by President Trump stupid. And then, it would do irreparable damage to the party, to the country and to the brand. And I think he's precisely right, like that messages was spot on.

SESAY: John, I'm going to ask you cause you that endorses and embraces child molesters, the word of Dave there. I mean did make of this? Was this the right move by the President?

JOHN THOMAS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I was disappointed to see it today. I actually thought the president was striking the right balance prior to this. So, I'm just saying, you know, look let the voters decide here.

Weighing in, really, there's not a lot of upside. I'm not sure that it's going to make the difference to put Moore over the edge. But look, it's not the first time that a politician has made a Faustian agreement here.

You know, Democrats back to Bill Clinton during his rape accusation period because they felt it was important to have Democrat in the White House. So, often time politicians do make these kinds of deals. But I think the larger challenge here is smart strategies like Dave are going to beat Republicans over the head with Roy Moore. Whether he gets elected or not in midterms and that could cause some scene.

SESAY: Areva, to bring you in, because I saw you didn't go back at the Bill Clinton, along (ph) this. So, I'm going to leave it at bring Areva in.

Here we had the president essentially saying Roy Moore denies the allegations. So he believes Roy Moore, you're got to hear Roy Moore he said. He didn't reject the president that he didn't reject the statements made by the women. But you can't say you stand with Roy Moore and believe the women at the same time, correct?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANAYLIST: Yes. It's pretty clear from the reporting, Isha, that the president doesn't believe the women. We heard him say that all of the 16 women, they came out and gives him and made allegation. He called them liars. And essentially that's what he's doing with respect to these women without using those words.

The president statement was really troubling to me. He made some statement about women being special. It was so paternalistic and so characteristic of men who just don't get it. We are at a turning point in this country as it relates to women feeling encouraged and power to come out and speak about sexual harassment and sexual assault. And rather than having the leader of this country, be out front on this and encouraging women to come out in this abuse.

[02:05:04] He is essentially siding with the predator. And I don't know what women can do more than what we are doing which is to continue to speak out and to remember this in 2020. I think that's the lesson today for every woman in this country. Remember what our president said today how he basically threw women and children under the bus for the so called purpose of getting a tax bill pass. And I think that's what this comes down to.

SESAY: John, to make up of what Areva just said. Are you one of those Republican's who believes that it is OK to vote in a man accused of sexual misconduct, child molestation, rather than have a Democrat in the Senate? Are you one of those?

THOMAS: No I'm not. No. I mean I've been a fan of Moore, in fairness I've been a fan Moore since the first time of running. But, no, I mean this is one of those things that where most leaders in the party other than President Trump agreed that this is a bridge too far. That he doesn't belong in the Senate. And somehow he managed just to get into the Senate.

I think the Republicans are going to throw him out. But let's be fair, Areva, the fact is the Democrats have a challenge here too of all the accusations been coming out. It's very up sided.

SESAY: And we're going to get to those. We're all going to get to those. But still I want to focus on more for a second as they have the December 12th election coming up, a special election in Alabama.

Dave, I want to play for you Dean Young. He is one of the strategists with the Moore Campaign. Take a listen to what he had to say as he took on the Democratic challenger. Take a listen.


DEAN YOUNG, ROY MOORE CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: He's trying to trick you all to make you all think that he's some kind of moderate. Well, he's not. He's for abortion until the babies born. He's for transgenders going into your little girls bathroom and boys pretending like they're girls going into the bathroom where your children at school.


SESAY: So, Dave, there you have Dean Young claiming that Doug Jones is for full time abortion which he is not, talking about transgender rights. What does it say about the Moore Campaign that they are going down this road?

JACOBSON: It's clear that they are obviously politically desperate. And we know that they're already willing to lie on several other issues. So why not lie about Doug Jones's record. But I think what is indicative of is they're trying to make an ideological argument rather than a character argument. They're tying to change the conversation to political ideology rather than standing up for their own candidate talking about his character or their flaws.

SESAY: John, you made the point about Doug Jones not belonging in the Senate. You also made the point that the president or anyone stepping out here on Mr. Moore --

THOMAS: Right, right, yes.

SESAY: -- with Roy Moore and what is the legacy of all these? What is the legacy of the president taking the stand? What does this mean for midterms? The president is wrapping the GOP brand like it or not. He's wrapping it and entangling it with Roy Moore.

THOMAS: Yes. I think there are couple scenarios I can see. Most of them probably end with ache (ph) on the president space. If Roy Moore does somehow squeak this out, I think you're going to see leaders in the party quickly expel Roy Moore which would lead to the sit being appointed, you know, temporarily which would lead to a vote which could help President Trump pass his agenda, that's a plus.

But you're still going to have this election. You're s till going to have the words of the president said today. And it's easy for guys like Dave to click that in commercial. So I think it's going to haunt us to the next round. But again, I hate to keep coming back to this. But this is a bipartisan problem.

And so the Democrats have to be careful as much as, you know, the president his words, you know, breakthrough pretty much everybody. The Democrats have been careful not to overreach on this issue because I'll tell you, Isha, I'm sick of when I hear about Franken. Guys like him that have pictures of sexual assault saying, let's have an investigation. Well, I'm not going to remove my self, like that's sickening too.

SESAY: And before I get to that and I will pivot to that. But I just wanted to buzz up the issue with the president and Roy Moore. He's left the door open to campaigning for him. You talk about images regarding Franken. What about the images of the president out on the campaign trail if that should happen campaigning for Moore?

THOMAS: I certainly -- I really hope he doesn't do it. But I wouldn't put pass it.

JACOBSON: And I think that leaving the door open was indicative of something perhaps that Steve Bannon might have been advising the president. Like we've read reports today that there was in-fighting within the White House where there were several advisors who were saying you need to come out against Roy Moore. There were other reports particularly from the "Daily Beast" that said, well, is President Trump has been talking regularly with Steve Bannon."

I'm sure this is the same talking points that Steve Bannon was giving the president during his own election. He said look you're down the polls, you got all these accusations coming out there. You've got to dig your hills in and keep your nose to the grindstone and just move forward. I'm sure that's the same exact advice that Steve Bannon who's backed Roy Moore, who's endorsed him is giving to president, that perhaps raising the door.

SESAY: All right, John, has been banging on the table all but to talk bout the Democrats so let's --

[02:10:04] MARTIN: Isha I can I --

SESAY: Of course, I was going to bring you right there, Areva, to talk about the Democrats but please weigh in.

MARTIN: Yes. I just wanted to say something about that Republican strategist at that press conference. I was here earlier on Brooke Baldwin show. And we watch that press conference survive. And that press conference was really unbelievable.

You had five to seven white men standing at this press conference really in my opinion trying to intimidate not just the nine women that have accused Roy Moore but really sending a message to all women across this country that if you speak up and you, you know, point out or you talk about sexual harassment or abuse by a powerful men, we are going to come after you come after you hard.

There were lawyers, there were investigators. They talk about digging into the medical records of one of the accusers. Her records when she was 14 years old and some of the troubles she had a teenager, and you've heard say this before on your show that when women speak up, defendants go after them so hard. If they try to intimidate them, humiliate them and that's what we saw today. But, again, I just think women have to keep speaking up because what we see is, there is power in numbers.

And the reason, it takes some of these women 40 years is because they feel isolation, they feel the shame. But when they see other women that encourages them and the number of women that have come out against Roy Moore despite with those lawyers and investigators said, there is no doubt that some of those women and I believe all of them are completely truthful in their statements about the harassment they suffered as a result of interactions with him.

THOMAS: And Areva is right. I mean, I think they took a play right out of Hillary Clinton's playbook using a bimbo squad to discredit Bill Clinton's accusers. It's exactly right.

SESAY: Dave, do you want to --

MARTIN: Well, it wasn't a play out of Hillary Clinton's playbook. I don't -- that's not what I said at all.

THOMAS: She had a bimbo squad.

SESAY: All right, I'm going to leave that one there and -- because the Clinton presidency, isn't in focus in this moment. So I want to talk about --

THOMAS: It's just a playbook. Well, look, Democrats have the spotlight on them. Do you want this issue?

SESAY: So, let's talk about the Democrats then let's talk about them. Carney is the longest serving member of the House. And it's now in the middle of his own sexual harassment controversy offered a mass (ph) on Tuesday that several women had actually files complaints about sexual harassment and that he'd actually settled a suit back in 2015. Now here, there's going to be an ethics committee investigation.

But, before I get to that, I want to clear that Carney has vehemently rejected this. Let's put up some of his statement. He said, "In our country, we strive to honor this fundamental principle that all are entitled to due process. In this case, I express and vehemently denied the allegations made against me, and continue to do so."

Dave, the fact that this is going to an ethics committee investigation, as suppose to Democrats just say, he needs to leave, isn't it that verifications that will stand this, I mean to John's point?

JACOBSON: Yes. I think unfortunately, Democrats need to come out and you know, call these folks who are engaging these kinds of activities for the behavior. And I think just like Mitch McConnell stepped up to the play with Roy Moore and say, you know what, he should step aside. I think Democrats are going to do the same.

It pains me to say that about folks like leaders Al Franken and the Democratic Party. But the reality is like this is an opportunity for Democrats to be the forward thinking party about equality and justice. And like we need to be internalizing this issue but also coming up with solutions, I had to move forward. And the first way to do that is like cleanse ourselves of these comebacks.

SESAY: John?

THOMAS: He's absolutely right. I mean both parties need to be consistent. That's actually what troubles me so much about the Hump Trump did today as if muddied those waters. But it provides Democrats an opportunity. Now, that Trump weighed on this to, you know, walk the walk here and cleanse their own party. But this is the issue, the politicians out of D.C. are using this ethics investigation as a escape go to buy themselves time, to hope that goes away.

But, serving USA, just came out with this survey in Minnesota showing that voters want majority of voters want Franken to resign. And it will be interesting to see if he gives up to the pressure. He saw this happened in California with several legislators and they're resigning.


THOMAS: But you're not seeing it so much on the federal level which is interesting.

SESAY: It is interesting. And to the point, Areva, I want to ask you weigh in on this issue. The fact that it is so difficult to on Capitol Hill to make a complaint that all the hoops that women have to jump through, it is any thing, if supportive to women who have suffered these kinds of abuses. I mean where do we go from here? What is the Conyers situation along side, the Franken situation, what is it say to you about the culture on Capitol Hill?

MARTIN: Well, I think, the culture has to change. I think we have end the culture. And it's not just the Democrats in the House or the Senate, it's across the board. That starts with Donald Trump.

[02:15:02] So, we can't ask Franken to resign or to Conyers to resign or expel Roy Moore and that's we're also beating that drum with respect to Donald Trump. Because, don't forget, there were 60 women and there is the "Access Hollywood" tape where Trump admit to engaging in sexually harassing and abuse of conduct.

So, if we're going to be consistent in standing up from women and children in the case of Roy Moore, we've got cleanse House from top to bottom and that means every man that's been out in the scandals has to go. And we have to change the way that women are allowed to and encourage to come out.

And it can't be this lot of shaming that happens. I'll tell you just, you know, something that happened to me. I've been on this network for the last two weeks talking about this issue. I got an e-mail from someone saying you made some great points but your dress, your cleavage or something. It's so ridiculous. And that's what happens to women.

Somehow the blame gets shifted to on to women. And we've got to change that because women are speaking up. I have to say, we haven't seen this since Anita Hill 25 years ago. And we want continue this progress. And that starts with the culture change and some changes with respect to law.

SESAY: Yes. I couldn't agree more. And this moment is here. And there's no rewinding of time. There's no going back. Areva, we appreciate it. Areva Martin, David Jacobson, John Thomas, always appreciate it. Thank you.

MARTIN: Thank you.

SESAY: All right. Let's take a quick break shall we?

After the break, Donald Trump hour long phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin or that's really to discuss and what they're apparently avoided. We'll tell you when we come back.

Plus, David Cassidy once made teenage hot swan. We remember the pop idol of his untimely death. Stay with us.


PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Patrick Snell with your CNN Wold Sport headlines starting off with match day five of the Europe's Champions League where 97 winners in 2013 semi-finalist Borussia Dortmund out with the most previous prestigious club tournament going. The German side winners in their last five in Bundesliga and lost 2-1 to group A winners Tottenham star struck Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang in Dortmund hope and Harry Kane and Heung-min Son put the game out of reach.

Over in group E, Liverpool place in the knockout stage, was put on hold with a dramatic finish in Sevilla after taking three-nil lead first half through Sade Manio and Flaminio two Spanish side scoring three of their own in the second half, remarkable three-zero score line setting up a fantastic scenario for the final match game.

With just 80 days to go now until 2018 Winter Olympics preparation to beginning together pace in South Korea, are they still in track though? This may look like your average train journey. But it I fact the new high speed train organizers unveil this week costing some $3.7 billion that links to capital Seoul with the Winter Olympic Cup in just 69 minutes which a half time in previously to reach the venue. The train will reach a remarkable top speed of some 250 kilometers an hour.

[02:20:07] And that's World Sport headlines, I'm Patrick Snell.


SESAY: Hello everyone. Russia is pushing for political solution to the Syrian Civil War. The Syrian leader Bashar Al-Assad is not expected to go anywhere.

President Vladimir Putin is taking the lead on the peace negotiations while the Trump Administration appears to be taking the back seat. The Russian leader spoke by phone about Syria with President Trump.


TRUMP: We had a great call with President Putin. We're talking about peace in Syria, very important. We're talking about North Korea. We had a call that lasted almost an hour and a half. We just put out a release on the call. But we're talking very strongly about brining peace to Syria. We're talking very strongly about North Korea and Ukraine.


SESAY: Well, let's discuss all of this with David Siders, he is a senior reporter with POLITICO, David, good to see you.

The president repeating, you know, as you hear that, we talked about Syria. In deed it was, you know, it was part of the conversation. But the reality is that Russia is in the lead here. And the U.S. has been relegated to be effective bystanders when it comes to events on the ground there. Talk to me about what that says about this administration that effectively as a continuation to Obama Administration they've been out maneuvered by Putin.

DAVID SIDERS, SENIOR REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, I think there's some change expectations. I -- 6 months ago you would have said that I think President Trump and wanted to work very closely with Putin on this issue and have more of a presence. But clearly the Russia investigation has muddied the waters for him. And I think more broadly in his discussions with advisors at the White House, he views Syria as an Obama problem. And I don't think he sees an avenue for him to have a great success there.

SESAY: You say that. But then when he launched the attack early on in this administration that recalibrated people's expectation of this administration and how they would handle Syria.

SIDERS: You're exactly right. And that's why I say I think things have changed over the past six months with Russia becoming a more muddying influence in the administration.

SESAY: You know, you heard him say, you know, we talked Syria, we talked Ukraine, we talked North Korea, what they didn't talk about is Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

SIDERS: Clearly that's something the president has no interest in talking about I think. You know, it certainly broadcasting whether he's having that conversation. In his view, in his presentation anyway of the American people it's a non-issue. And so I think the less you can focus on that the better for him.

SESAY: OK. Interesting you should say less he can focus on that, the better it is for him. There is this school of though that says -- oh I've forgotten Roy Moore that we've been discussing for days on end now. And if anything as much as a controversy and it's one that could be damaging long term, they're talking Roy Moore, they're not talking Russia.

SIDERS: That's so interesting. I don't know because I haven't seen polling to say what is an American voter more affected by. But I think that the Russia story because it's more complicated and has more ins and out and maybe possibilities for disagreement. I think that's the hardest word for Americans to get heir hands around than an allegations of, you know, somebody pursuing and allegations of assaulting children. And I'm not sure I would go so far as to say that that story is better for any politician than Russia. But again that's an uninformed read.

SESAY: Sure.

SIDERS: Not based on a poll comparison.

SESAY: OK. I do want to bring up on a story that has somewhat got lost in the shuffle and that would be Haiti. That fact that this administration has that they're going to end its protected status, its temporary protected status in 2019 that was given Haiti after the devastating earthquake. Seen effectively by 2019 people have to leave or has been said by various advocate people basically moving to the shadows so that they don't leave.

What's the reaction to this? Because over the Haitians are obviously dismayed. Their country is of course in the western hemisphere. They have severe political and social problems and a huge cholera epidemic. They're dismayed. What's the broader response?

SIDERS: I think there's two ways to look at it. What do we have? Something like 60,000 of these Haitians I think in the --

SESAY: -- 58,700.

SIDERS: That's remarkably accurate number in the U.S. But those people, you know, that's just relatively small number when you compare it to something like DACA recipients. And I'm not sure that that most Americans are aware of what really is kind of a bureaucratic procedure, a smaller scale one in DACA for example.

[02:25:06] So you've seen a strong reaction from Florida, from lawmakers there from both parties, in New York, in New Jersey where you have kind of larger populations of these Haitian immigrants. I'm not sure if that backlash weighs the gain that the president gets what he's based by saying, look, this is an example of us being tough on our borders, tough on immigration.

SESAY: Yes. But this does fall in line with the administrations broader move to cut immigration, right?

SIDERS: That's exactly right. And that's how they're selling it.

SESAY: The question just has to be -- and I think this is what advocates are concerned about does the signal that effectively if you're an immigrant and you're in this country on any kind of -- covered by any of this programs that now is the time to be looking at, leaving whether that's the signal sent by these kinds of moves.

SIDERS: Well, this kind move -- I'm not sure that this signal was out of line with any of the previous signals. So I think if an immigrant in the country had a signal like this six months ago, this is clearly a continuation of that one.

SESAY: David Siders, always good to speak to you. Thank you.

SIDERS: Thank you.

SESAY: All right from the sad news now, David Cassidy of the 1970s pop idol who melted the heart and humiliated teenage girls has died. Many know him best from T.V.'s "The Partridge Family" where he gained a huge fan base with his music. He lead the Pattrina's (ph) around the world. I'm sure you all remember those scenes and this and hits like "I think I love You" and "I'll Meet You Halfway."

At the time the time his fan club rivals those of Elvis and even the Beatles. And his lady, Cassidy struggled with alcohol. And earlier this year he was said that he said rather he was battling dementia. Cassidy died of organ failure in Florida at age of 67 but his voice that will never be forgotten.


[02:30:17] ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay. The headlines this hour, David Cassidy has died at age 67, the 1970s heartthrob rose to fame on T.V.'s The Partridge Family. He's been hospitalized in Florida with organ failure. Cassidy was renounced singer and pop idol. His voice captured the spirit of 1970s youth. And his fan club at the time rivaled those of the Elvis and The Beatles.

Donald Trump has broken his silence on Roy Moore. He is defending the Republican Senate candidate who's been accused of sexual abuse by several women. The President says Moore denies the allegations and that he doesn't want a Liberal Democrat to take the Senate seat.

Zimbabwe is expected to swear in a new president by Thursday after the resignation of Robert Mugabe. The 93-year-old stepped down one week after an apparent military coup. The news brought celebrations in the capital, former Vice President Emmerson Mnangagwa is expected to take over.

Well, Zoe Flood is an intentional journalist and joins me now by Skype from Harare. Zoe, good to have you with us. The joy was unmistakable at the news that Mugabe was out, but do you get any sense as you speak to people there in Zimbabwe that there are concerns about what comes next?

ZOE FLOOD, INTERNATIONAL JOURNALIST (via Skype): Thank you. I think it's very apparent here that people are approaching in quite a realistic way. It's been a very long road for Zimbabweans and they are not unfamiliar with the idea that they are -- that Mugabe is being replaced by somebody who doesn't necessarily have the keenest of trend. However, at this particular moment, the jubilation and euphoria on the streets is unmistakable. And I think right now, Zimbabweans just want to enjoy this moment, enjoy the release, enjoy the relief as well and celebrate this -- end of his era.

SESAY: Yes. And with that being said, you know, Robert Mugabe, for all that he did and for all of the suffering he brought upon that country in his 37 years in power, the hardships, the economy crashing, the destruction to various institutions and Democratic reform or the lack of Democratic reform so to speak, for all of that, he is also the man who was part of that fight to liberate what was Rhodesia that became Zimbabwe. So, I guess he has a very complex relationship with the populous. How will he be remembered?

FLOOD: Well, that's an important point and a number of people I spoke to last night was absolutely celebrating his departure, also said, you know, in my heart, I do love Mugabe which is quite a contradictory thing to see, I mean, he's known for his leadership of the -- during the war of independence, and certainly in the early years of his tenure, he voted -- see him very positively. One man said to be last night, you know, he brought education to this country, that's why we're so strong today and we can continue as we are. It will be interesting to see how his legacy is seen in this country. But certainly, I think that most people at this point are just focused on his departure.

SESAY: The Vice President, Emmerson Mnangagwa, expected to be sworn in by Thursday is what we're hearing. As you say, people are realistic, people wanting to celebrate the fact that after 37 years, Robert Mugabe is gone, but with the vice president taking the helm, I mean, realistically, do people expect things to get better?

FLOOD: I think here's a perception here that Emmerson Mnangagwa has a stronger hold on economic issues that he could potentially make a difference to the economy here which is really starting to suffer. People are optimistic about that but they are also, as I said before, realistic about some of his history. But there are also -- people I spoke to last night said they're willing to give him a chance. We want to see any change at this point in time. And hopefully, we will Emmerson Mnangagwa embrace the kind of Democratic approach. But that -- you know, how that plays out remains to be seen. So the next few days are still very critical here in this country and how these events play out will be very important.

SESAY: Yes, absolutely. There is still very much a sense of the unknown as to where Zimbabwe will go next. And Zoe Flood joining us there via Skype from Harare. Zoe, very much appreciate it. Thank you.

[02:35:06] FLOOD: Thank you.

SESAY: Well, many Zimbabweans have never known a ruler other than Robert Mugabe. They're ushering in this new era and as you heard from Zoe, with huge eagerness and acceleration.


JACOB MUDENDA SPEAKER OF ZIMBABWE'S PARLIAMENT: I, Robert Gabriel Mugabe in terms of section 96, sub section one of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, hereby formally tender my resignation as the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe with immediate effect.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a sense of euphoria here on the street. Once the word got out, everyone screamed onto the streets celebrating. First, it was slow, a couple of people cheering and then thousands are screaming onto this park here near the houses of Parliament celebrating the end of an era.

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: The only leader this country has really ever known since independence resigned after an attempted coup last week. There were questions on why it was taking so long and then suddenly the old man as we called -- and he's called, resigned.

MCKENZIE: We have old ladies celebrating saying he's gone. Professionals as well. And I'll take it right onto the center of the street, in the middle of town here in Harare. And the scenes here are incredible. Zimbabwean flags in the air, people on trucks here celebrating, jumping up and down. I can't overstate what this means to ordinary Zimbabweans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels like my children can come here and be free to take their cameras out there backpacks and film whatever they want without being arrested for anything, that anyone can make a joke about the president and with not being arrested for insulting the president. But the idea of freedom is really back in play in this country. And in fact, a long, long hiatus and hibernation, freedom is back in Harare.

MCKENZIE: What do you feel about tonight with the new independence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are so excited and we are very happy. We feel liberated.

MCKENZIE: It's like the entire country took a deep breath, heard the news and has rushed out in celebration. Tomorrow is another day but today this is how the people feel.


SESAY: Our David McKenzie there on the ground in Harare. And as he said, tomorrow is another day. They just want to celebrate. You cannot overstate what that moment means to the people of Zimbabwe after having Robert Mugabe in power for 37 years. Quick break here. Next on NEWSROOM L.A., journalist Charlie Rose is out to U.S. network after sexual harassment complaints. Just ahead, what two former co- workers think about the situation.


[02:41:22] SESAY: Hello, everyone. PBS has dropped Charlie Rose's talk show and CBS has fired him after allegations of sexual harassment. This comes after the Washington Post reported on eight women who described unwanted sexual advances from the veteran journalist. Other women also came forward with new allegations following that post report. CBS says some of those complainants came from three of its own staffers and in a statement, Rose said that he deeply apologized. Here's how his former co-host at CBS reacted.


NORAH O'DONNELL, HOST, CBS THIS MORNING: Let me be very clear. There is no excuse for this alleged behavior. It is systematic and pervasive and I've been doing a lot of listening and I'm going to do that. This I know is true, women cannot achieve equality in a workplace or in society until there is a reckoning and a taking of responsibility.

GAYLA KING, HOST, CBS THIS MORNING: You know, I've enjoyed a friendship and a partnership with Charlie for the past five years. I've held him in such high regard and I'm really struggling because how do you -- what do you say when someone that you deeply care about has done something that is so horrible. How do you wrap your brain around that? I'm really grappling with that.


SESAY: Well, our CNN Legal Analyst Areva Martin is back with us. And now, we're joined also by licensed psychotherapist Jenn Mann, she's worked as a rape and domestic violence counselor for the Los Angeles Commission on Assault Against Women. Thank you so much for being with us. Areva, let me start with you. The firing of Charlie Rose and the severing of ties was swift.


SESAY: What's does that say about how far we've come since those very first allegations against Harvey Weinstein came out those -- all those weeks ago?

MARTIN: Yes. I think the culture is changing really rapidly, Isha. We're seeing when there are allegations made against powerful men with these really big jobs, companies can't risk having their brand associated with them and they're moving very quickly to move them out of the workplace. Charlie Rose's case though is really disturbing to me as a lawyer because what we know is that some of those women did report the allegations of sexual harassment and the woman that they reported to came forward in the piece and said she wished she had done more to protect them.

And although, my heart goes out to those women, this is really something that happens every day. Not just in the context of powerful men like Charlie Rose but the everyday employee, the everyday waitress, hotel worker. Women who work in low-end -- low-wage jobs who experience sexual harassment regularly. And we know that African- American even just proportionally so than other women. And when they try to report it, that's what happens oftentimes, they're not believed, they're told, oh, get over it, they're told that's just that guy's way, you're being too sensitive and nothing is done.

SESAY: Dr. Mann, I want to read the statements put out by PBS and CBS before I bring you in to weigh in on this very point. Let's put those up, shall we? Let's start with PBS, this is what PBS said. There were go. "PBS expects all the producers we work with to provide a workplace where people feel safe and are treated with dignity and respect." CBS also putting out a statement in light of the Charlie Rose allegations. "There's absolutely nothing more important in this or any organization than ensuring a safe professional workplace, a supportive environment where people feel they can do their best work." To piggyback on Areva just said, I mean, I would have taken as read that would be, what, they would be trying to create in terms of the workplace and yet we have these women in the case of Charlie Rose who reported it to other women.

[02:45:05] DR. JENN MANN, LICENSED PSYCHOTHERAPIST: And they clearly did not provide exactly what they're saying that they provide. And it's a beautiful statement but it's a kind of a day late and a dollar short that this should have been the philosophy long ago when these women reached out for help, and when they reach out to people, instead of people getting fired, people getting complain, people being told to be quiet that's what should have happened. There should have been recourse at the time.

And it's unfortunate that that's not the way it was handled. And I do think, like you were asking before, we are now in a different era. I mean, I looked back on Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas. And, you know, I was working for domestic violence hotline at the time, and we start getting influxes of calls from women talking about sexual harassment because they didn't have a name until then. And now, women are being believed and that's a wonderful change. That it's the first place people tend to go now as, wow, she's probably telling the truth. This is -- this has really happened to her. She's taking this risk. And that's a great improvement for women everywhere.

SESAY: But we have seen women who admittedly have walked it back once they put it out there who have said statements, shaming other women, questioning poking holes. I'm thinking Donna Karan who came out and talked about the clothing of women. I'm thinking Lena Dunham who came out and also said she stood with executive producer on girls. And then said she made a terrible mistake. I guess what I'm getting at, these women have walked these statements back, but what is itit about certain women picking and choosing when to enforce a moral framework, what is that about?

MARTIN: Well, I think it's cultural. I think the attitudes have been that if a woman makes an allegation, the burden is on her to prove it. And more of often than not, women were not believed, which is why so many women did come forward because they feared that they wouldn't be believed, that they would face retribution. In many times, it was career suicide, so it's going to take a lot to change the culture. And for there to be a mindset that when women come forward, they are risking a tremendous amount.

And the statistics show less than three percent of sexual abuse and harassment allegations that are made are false. So, we're talking about a really, really small number of claims that are made that aren't accurate. But for some people, they still believe that if you don't come out the day that it happens, if it's a year later or 10 years later, and even in some of these cases, we've seen 30 years later, that you couldn't be telling the truth because, my God, if something so horrific happened to you, why didn't you tell it in the first place? And people can't quite wrap their arms around the trauma that women face and how difficult it is to make these allegations or to come forward with these claims.

SESAY: And Jenn, to that point, women not being able to wrap their heads around the trauma of other women.

MANN: Yes. And, look, typically, when I was in college, there was -- I was doing journalism story and there was one man who have raped four women on a college campus, and I interviewed all four of them. The only reason why the story ended up like he ended up getting caught cause one found out that he did to her friend and he wouldn't say -- they wouldn't speak up for themselves, but when they found that happened to someone else, there was that "Me Too" experience. And that's what is driving a lot of this, that all of a sudden one person have the courage to say, this happened to me, and then someone else went, yes, me too. And it spread.

And now that the culture is changing and women are being believed, that's happened. But regarding what you're saying about women having opinion and saying speaking for and against, you know, I think that got (INAUDIBLE) really nailed it. Psychologically speaking, it's so hard to wrap your head around someone who's had a personal relationship with who you care about and then to find out that they've done something heinous, it's so inconsistent with what you thought they were about, and --

SESAY: And what they (INAUDIBLE) to you. MANN: Yes. And so, I think that it's very hard when you've had these personal relations with these people who are now -- we're finding out they did terrible things. And I think that's what we're seeing, when these women speak out, they're saying, oh, this isn't the guy that I knew. And I agree that there needs to be some digestion and at the same time you also got to speak to your truth, whether this is something terrible that happened to you, or you had a relationship where he was respectful. You need to speak your truth.

SESAY: Absolutely.

MANN: But I think it happened --

SESAY: OK. That's the point that we're going to have to sit.

MARTIN: Absolutely. We want to believe that it's black and white but it's not.

SESAY: It's not. Ladies, I'm so sorry we're out of time. But let me say thank you for a really important conversation. I know we'll keep it going. Areva, Jenn, thank you.

MARTIN: Absolutely.

MANN: Thank you.

SESAY: Just ahead, we're waiting the verdict of a former Bosnian Serb general accused of genocide in a massacre of more than 7,000 Muslims in Srebrenica, a fugitive for years now facing judgment. Stay with us.


[02:51:59] PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN INTERNATIONAL METEOROLOGIST: Well, the day has arrived. The busiest travel day of the year across the United States, a day before Thanksgiving here. Big weather day, of course. We're watching very cold temperatures, but frankly, not much in the way of significant disturbances because of the weather here to really cause any major delays, maybe some morning showers out of New York City, but 11 degrees light in nature there. Some cold showers but again light in nature in Montreal, three degrees for the high temp. I noticed the cold there sits there. We've seen other resurgence of it going into Sunday and Monday next week. Big time warmth build then across parts of the Midwest even into the Rockies. Temps could be soaring by the last week of November, so big-time warmth expected to return across that region into next week.

Here's what's going on around the northeast. Notice, 11 gives away the six for Thanksgiving Day, Macy's Day Parade certainly going to be a little chilly there in New York City but nothing unusual. And Washington also sees a cooler trend in Atlanta temps going off to around 16 before they warm back up. This is the corner with the problems as far travel is concerned, the Northwestern area including Vancouver, B.C. there with some heavy rain. Certainly in the forecast high-elevation snow possible as well. Mexico City looking dry, 19 degrees. In Guatemala City, maybe a few afternoon showers, middle 20s. Here's what we're expecting. And work your way down towards Brasilia, 27. Rio could see a few thunderstorms as well over on 27 degrees and (INAUDIBLE) conditions across the southern tip of South America.


SESAY: We are awaiting the verdict of a former Bosnia Serb General accused of genocide. Ratko Mladic is charged in connection with a massacre of more than 7,000 Muslims in Srebrenica and other war crimes in the 1900s. A U.N. accord expected to deliver its ruling at the Hague in the coming hours. Our own Melissa Bell joins us now from Sarajevo. Melissa, good to have you with us. For a time, right, Mladic was nicknamed "the Butcher of Bosnia," and he was the world's most wanted man. He evaded capture for 16 years as you know. And now, the moment is close at hand where he will face what comes next. Remind our viewers of how he got to this point.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. You mentioned (INAUDIBLE) there of course, Isha, but it is a day of reckoning on so many other fronts, so many different regions of Bosnia waiting to hear what this particular general will face once he is sentenced later on today. And not least here in Sarajevo. He was after all the military commander in charge of the siege, Isha, that lasted for 44 months, more than 1,400 days during which the people of Sarajevo were subjected to sniping and shelling and a systematic attempts to beat them into submission. Indeed, if you think back to what he said at the time, Ratko Mladic had said that he wanted them bomb to the edge of madness. And so, people here in Sarajevo, they're going to watch him very closely to see what comes out today. Justice (INAUDIBLE) but by no means this sort of reconciliation really that this part of the world so desperately needs, Isha.

[02:55:18] SESAY: And very quickly because we're almost out of time, Melissa, do we expect him to be in court to hear the verdict? Because I understand he's frail after a series of strokes and is 74 now?

BELL: He is extremely frail. And of course, we've watched his health really deteriorate between our -- before our very eyes of the courts of the law as you hear, as you say. He was captured in 2011 but ever since, this man who had been so fool of bandier of talk who'd been very forthright and everything here to say very free speaking throughout the war. Suddenly looking more and more frail and behaving in more and more erratic. But we are hoping to get a sense of this man's reaction. I think there are many people hear in particular who want to know that this man, the last of the trio, because you remember that Slobodan Milosevic who was the Serbian President at the time, but also Radovan Karadzic who sentenced in March to 40 years in jail. He has the third in that trio and many people really very keen to see what he's going to receive, how he's going to be sentenced, and how this is going to be brought to a close because, of course, the tribunal winds up its activity in December.

SESAY: That's right. Melissa, Bell, thank you very much. We will check back in with you soon. Thank you, Melissa. You've been watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles, I'm Isha Sesay. I'll be back with more news after this.