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NEW DAY SUNDAY
Kushner to Hand Over Russia Related Docs to Senate Tomorrow; Trump on Consumer Watchdog Group: It's a Total Disaster; Alabama Native Charles Barkley Endorses Doug Jones; Pope's Controversial Visit to Myanmar; Is Trump "Obsessed" with TIME's Person of the Year?; Social Media Reignites Controversial Case. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired November 26, 2017 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
IVAN CABRERA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: -- in particular is very dangerous to aircraft because as that plume goes up, it has basically volcanic ash and it also has components that can clog up the area here, and that can result in some significant problems with the engine.
[07:00:18] The magma cools and it cakes on the combustion and then you got big-time problems. Sometimes you can't see the plume that the radar and the aircraft can't pick it up. So, we'll watch this closely. The radar depicting shower and thunderstorm activity and likely cause problems at the surface as the ash comes down. In fact, we have reports that ash is falling as far away as the island to the east so we will see if we get the big eruption but for now continue to monitor the air space which remains quite dangerous -- guys.
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Ivan Cabrera, we appreciate it. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dueling appointments. Opening the door to a potential showdown between the White House and the country's top consumer watchdog agency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any perception that Mr. Kushner has been anything but not cooperative, but if you look at these emails, he is the hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight years of economic stagnation.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: This is a terrible, terrible piece of legislation and it must be defeated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we can repeal part of Obamacare as part after tax bill and to have a tax bill still a good tax bill that can pass, that's great.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't need a liberal person in there, a Democrat. Roy Moore denies it. That's all I can say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you be a white separatist and represent all of the constituents in your state?
PAUL: Welcome to Sunday. Good morning to you. We're so grateful for your company. I'm Christi Paul.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Martin Savidge, in for Victor Blackwell.
The clock is ticking for the president's son-in-law Jared Kushner, he has until tomorrow to hand over information related to a security clearance to Congress.
PAUL: Congressional committees, they are trying to find out whether Congress had any inappropriate contacts with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign. Now, this as two new articles this morning from "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post" take a closer look at Kushner's apparent shrinking role in the Trump administration.
SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, the president is slamming the nation's top consumer watchdog group as a total disaster as questions swirling just who's going to be in charge tomorrow morning after its former director abruptly quit.
PAUL: And this week, will it be a make or break moment for the Republican agenda? The question -- can the president secure a win on tax reform?
SAVIDGE: And Democratic Senator Al Franken expected to speak publicly for the first time since several women came forward accusing him of sexual harassment.
All right. Let's begin with the Russia investigation. CNN's Abby Phillip joins me now live.
And, Abby, Kushner has been asked to repeatedly turn over documents to or -- or more documents I should say -- related to the 2016 Trump campaign and the transition team. So, I'm wondering is Kushner expected to fully cooperate this time?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Martin.
Yes, Jared Kushner is yet again asked to provide some new documentation to Senate investigators. This has been an ongoing problem for him where investigators have come back to him and said, you need to give us more emails, you need to give us more documents and you need to provide transcripts related to this investigation.
Now, Kushner's attorney say that he has been both cooperative and very forthcoming and that he has provided information that relate to his own contacts with Russia and with any other actors that are related to the investigation, and that if congressional investigators are looking for something that they don't have, it's because they didn't necessarily ask for it. So, I think we can examine that in the coming days, you'll see
Kushner's attorney providing information that they've asked for partly because his attorneys say the more that they give investigators at the beginning, the more it vindicates their client. So, I think we expect them to actually do that when the deadline approaches tomorrow.
SAVIDGE: And on another controversy, former Representative Barney Frank pushed back on the white house saying that President Trump has the authority to appointed a new leader to the nation's top consumer watchdog agency. It's a story we've been following these past few days. You interviewed Frank. What did he say?
PHILLIP: That's right. Well, this is a dispute that might go all the way to the courts. When I talked to Barney Frank yesterday, he -- remember, he is -- one of the coauthors of the law that created the CFPB and he said that when they were going through and writing this piece of legislation, they thought about how they would put together the succession plan for what would happen if there is no director of the CFPB, and they said they wanted to make it so the president and White House and political actors in the government would not be part of that process of temporarily replacing a director when there is no one in that position.
[07:05:05] So they said they designed it for exactly this purpose and that it was not designed for the president, for President Trump to be able to just appoint someone like Mick Mulvaney, the OMB director, to that position. So, Barney Frank is on one side of that issue. But the Justice Department's lawyers came out with their opinion yesterday, siding with the president saying their interpretation of the law is that the Federal Vacancies Reform Act, that's a whole other law, gives the president full authority to appoint whoever he wants to that position.
And, you know, on Monday, the folks will come to work at CFPB. Some of them may not know exactly who they report to. Barney Frank says that he believes this will be settled in court but he's not exactly sure how or when that will happen.
SAVIDGE: Could be an awkward Monday. Abby Phillip, thanks very much.
PAUL: Kelly Jane Torrance is deputy managing editor for "The Weekly Standard", and Kyle Feldscher, breaking news editor for "The Washington Examiner" with us now.
Thank you both for being here.
I want to read to you something regarding Jared Kushner and his notable absence from the public eye, it seems, particularly from the West Wing. Here's what "The New York Times" is writing.
They're saying the first month of the administration, Mr. Kushner typically would spend five or six hours a day with the president, in what his advocates described as playing defense, making sure others were not gaining the system by persuading Mr. Trump to make decisions without consulting others who had interest in the issues. Now, under a less free-wheeling system, Mr. Kushner and other aides are expected to stay in their own lanes.
Kelly, is that, in a sense, the John Kelly effect? And is the role shrinking really for Kushner or is it just becoming more focused?
KELLY JANE TORRANCE, DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: It's a great question, Christi. I think this is a case definitely of be careful what you wish for. Jared Kushner reportedly was one of the big forces behind getting Reince Priebus out as chief of staff and now look what happened. That led to John Kelly coming in as chief of staff and he has really curbed Jared Kushner's access during the day to Donald Trump. And it is quite a striking difference.
And I sort of wonder, though, if the focus is there. We hear from that "The New York Times" story as well that besides Middle East peace and bringing government to the modern era, he is also working on NAFTA and even on the re-entry of the American prisoners into society. I mean, this is a very wide ranging portfolio and you wonder how one person can handle all of this and it's -- John Kelly, I'm sure, is asking the same question.
PAUL: Yes. Well, Kyle, reportedly the president, privately, this is according to a report, blames Kushner for special counsel Robert Mueller's widening probe. Now, we want to point out, the president does deny that. But here is what "The Washington Post" is writing today.
His still evolving role in the investigation of Russian election interference and possible obstruction of justice also make him a potential risk to President Trump, even as he enjoys a special status of being married to the boss' daughter, Ivanka, and serving as one of the president's senior confidante. So, are we seeing the role of Jared Kushner evolve because of this investigation?
KYLE FELDSCHER, BREAKING NEWS EDITOR, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Sure. Well, there doesn't appear to be any direct evidence of. No one is saying on the record he might think it's better to Jared Kushner's mental health that his portfolio is reduced somewhat. But this -- these constant questions about Jared Kushner actions during the election and, you know, the fact that the Senate Judiciary Committee is coming back for more documents and this is not something that is unusual for Kushner. They have asked for more documents and more interviews and more emails before.
It's a constant cloud kind of hanging over his presence in the White House and it's something that us in the media are constantly asking questions about and it's got to be hard for a White House with so much else to do. We talked about tax reform a big issue but here we are talking about Jared Kushner so not good for any White House aide behind the scenes. You don't want to be that much of the focus.
Kelly Jane, I want to read another portion of this, because it is interesting from "The New York Times", saying, according to three advisors to the president, Mr. Kelly has even discussed the possibly of Mr. Kushner and his wife Ivanka Trump departing the West Wing by the end of the year. Now, we want to be very clear here and important to note. Chief of Staff Kelly does dispute this.
But, Kelly Jane, how possible is it that Jared Kushner and Ivanka would leave Washington?
TORRANCE: Yes, Christi, my eyes kind of popped out of my head when I read that sentence myself. And I think it's quite remarkable that a story like "The New York times" is even being published and the one in "The Washington Post" because they are talking to people anonymously, of course, but who are speaking out about the problems that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are bringing to the administration and that was sort of, you know, unheard of a couple of months ago.
[07:10:04] And it's really showing one of the problems of nepotism. You know, you bring in family members, it's very hard to get rid of them. You know, Michael Flynn, when they found he was going to be a liability, they got rid of him very quickly -- at least when it became public that he was a liability.
It's going to be a little harder with Jared and Ivanka. But what was sort of -- seemed impossible is starting to look possible. I mean, look at Rex Tillerson's State Department snubbing Ivanka Trump and not sending high level delegation with her to India. So, it does seem that the once untouchable Kushners are starting to look a little on shaky ground these days.
PAUL: Well, he did, in all fairness, Mr. Kushner spoke to "The Washington Post" for their article and he said that he welcomes the change and apparently he was referring to John Kelly at that moment. He says, quote here. The order allows this place to function. My number one priority is a high functioning White House because I believe in the president's agendas and I think it should get executed.
Your -- Kyle, your response to that and do you believe that Kushner is going to be in the White House for the long haul?
FELDSCHER: Sure. Well, it seems like that is exactly what top aide to the president should say. You know? The fact is no one really wants to go to work -- doesn't matter what job you're in -- you don't want to go to work and have this infighting and politicking to get your voice heard. You would like an orderly workplace.
So, you know, I do believe that statement. You know, I have a hard time giving that Donald Trump is so isolated from the establishment, Republicans. He doesn't really have a traditional operation around him, political operation around him. I have a hard time believing he would depart from that and, you know, fire his son-in-law. It seems like that would be some awkward birthday parties and Thanksgivings at the Trump household if that were to happen, because it doesn't seem like Jared and Ivanka are going anywhere any time soon.
PAUL: All righty. Kelly Jane Torrance and Kelly Feldscher, we appreciate both of you being with us today. Thank you.
TORRANCE: Thanks, Christi.
FELDSCHER: Thanks. PAUL: Sure.
And be sure to tune in for "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning as well. We got Senator Dick Durbin, Senator Lindsey Graham, both on the show with Jake Tapper. That's "STATE OF THE UNION", 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
SAVIDGE: The president's latest tweet about "TIME" magazine is prompting this question -- is President Trump obsessed with being "TIME's" person of the year?
PAUL: And a little star power entering the Alabama Senate race. Charles Barkley coming out against Republican Roy Moore, but with only a few weeks until the election, obviously. How much sway does that have with voters?
SAVIDGE: Plus, why Pope Francis's controversial trip to Myanmar could endanger Christians?
[07:16:55] SAVIDGE: It's the final stretch of one of the most I think safe to say controversial elections of the year.
PAUL: Yes. And tomorrow is the deadline for voters to register in Alabama special election for a race that could see a Democrat slip a Senate seat in a deep red state. And, tomorrow, that man there, Republican Roy Moore, making his first public appearance in nearly two weeks after eight women came forward with allegations against him. We should point out Moore has continued to deny these allegations.
But in a response, his opponent Doug Jones has a lot to say.
SAVIDGE: Yes. He has been claiming that Moore is avoiding the campaign trail. He says that, quote, Roy Moore is hiding from his record, hiding from the media, and hiding from voters, disappearing for 10 days at a time and unwilling to go out and even work for their votes.
PAUL: Doug Jones facing an uphill battle though to defeat Roy Moore. According to "The Washington Post", he has to carry more than 90 percent of African-American voters and boost their turnout.
SAVIDGE: One endorsement that could go a long way is Alabama native turned Hall of Fame basketball Charles Barkley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BARKLEY, RETIRED NBA PLAYER: Roy Moore is running with Steve Bannon as his right hand man who is a white separatist. I'm not even going to get into the women stuff. But a guy -- how can you be a white separatist and represent all the constituents in your state? I mean, you know, everybody is going crazy over these sexual allegations. Roy Moore would have, to me, when brought in Steve Bannon, should have been disqualified. I don't understand. I mean, to me that's what -- how can you have a
guy who's running with a separatist running for a political office? We got a lot of black people in the state who are amazing people. But to run a campaign with a guy at your chief advocate who is a white nationalist, white separatist, that should disqualify Roy Moore way before this women's stuff came up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: All right. So a race that is very interesting gets even more so now. And back to talk about all of is our panel. That's Kelly Jane Torrance, deputy editor of "The Weekly Standard", and also Kyle Feldscher, breaking news editor of "The Washington News Examiner."
Thank you for both for coming back.
Kelly, let me ask you this, how significant, how important do you think Barkley endorsement is going to be? And will it change the conversation, especially about Doug Jones and Roy Moore?
TORRANCE: It's an excellent question, Martin. I think the biggest thing that is might effect is turn out. As you mentioned in the lead- up here, Doug Jones has to win a lot of African-Americans it seems to win that seat. A lot of them probably are not really excited by Doug Jones. He is not exactly a thrilling candidate.
So, turnout is going to be very important and getting people, you know, a little bit riled up and interested in getting out there for the special election. December 12th, not a day that people normally have on their calendars as an election.
And, you know, I have to say Charles Barkley is partly right, that, you know, Roy Moore should have been disqualified before all of these allegations came out, but I think even before he brought on Steve Bannon. I mean, this is a man who showed, proved as a judge that he does not believe in the rule of law.
[07:20:00] He thinks that we should have the rule of men, you know, judges over the law. I think that should have disqualified him from the beginning.
SAVIDGE: Yes, he was twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court.
Let me ask you this, Kyle, though. Roy Moore has not made a public appearance. I've been following his campaign now for almost three weeks. He stayed off the campaign trail immediately after the allegations came forward. He has been absent. He runs ads but you haven't seen a lot of them.
And I'm wondering if you think that that's been a good idea, is that a good strategy for him?
FELDSCHER: Well, given Roy Moore's propensity to say outlandish things, we will say, and be, you know, just kind of a fire brand, to the point where -- this is a man who also whipped out a gun during a campaign speech, like he is very unpredictable. So, perhaps it actually was a good idea to the immediate aftermath of all these allegations coming out not have him out and in front of cameras and in front of microphones.
If only because someone like that can often do more harm to themselves in a race than they can help, you know? You would think that perhaps this is something that his staffers said, you know, maybe for a little bit, we'll just let this try and calm down and we'll come back when things are a little more settled. Whether they are settled now is up for debate, obviously, but --
SAVIDGE: Clearly, he has to worry there isn't some other woman or someone else who comes forward with some kind of allegation defense him.
Kelly, the president has hinted he might go to Alabama and campaign for Roy Moore. Do you really think that's going to happen?
TORRANCE: I think it's possible. Obviously, the more people are shocked that Donald Trump is not disavowing the candidacy of Roy Moore, I wonder if he'll do it just to upset the haters as he likes to call them. You know, we heard earlier on CNN he is upset with his daughter for criticizing Roy Moore and the allegations against him.
I think it's shocking the White House is basically calling these eight women and who knows how many more might come forward, liars. But the president is in a difficult position. If he says we should tend to believe women, especially when there's a group of them coming forward with similar allegations, then he'd have to answer the question of why we shouldn't believe a different group of women with similar allegations against the president, himself.
So I think it's anyone's guess what he might do. I think more than likely, though, we are going to see early morning or late night tweet from Donald Trump endorsing Roy Moore and that will be without his aides around to stop him.
SAVIDGE: Al right. Kyle, let me throw this at you. We know that this week that the House is going to pick up the issue of training -- sexual harassment training for members of Congress. It seems like they are way behind on this one. Just about every person who works in any job has gone through that kind of training.
What is happening here?
FELDSCHER: Well, it seems like this is something that is outdated, really ancient process and Congress, as a whole, that the sexual harassment training, you know, there has been complaints from female lawmakers that essentially this process that is set up in Congress when a staffer complains or alleges sexual harassment is actually set up to protect lawmakers and to silence these victims.
So, you know, there is a cooling off period. There is times when essentially this office of compliance tries to talk the women out of pressing forward with their allegations, according to some lawmakers. So, this is kind of an overhaul process that's long overdue and it's something that they're really going to have to take up and take seriously because there is so much more coming out and there keeps being little rumbles saying there is more coming, there is going to be more coming, there's going to be more, you know?
And so, we'll have to see what this week brings. It's been just a roller coaster of how many more men and how many more lawmakers can be accused of this kind of thing.
SAVIDGE: Right. I think is there a sense that a lot of people feel there is much more to come. Kelly Jane Torrance and Kyle Feldscher, thank you very much.
TORRANCE: Thanks, Martin.
PAUL: Pope Francis is making a historic trip to Myanmar. It's not without controversy. We're going to tell you what's going on.
SAVIDGE: Plus, how a murder case that is more than ten years old is catching fire online, thanks to interest from a certain A-list group of celebrities.
[07:29:01] PAUL: We are always so glad to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul.
SAVIDGE: And I'm Martin Savidge, in for Victor Blackwell. Welcome back. It is so good to always be with you.
The president's son-in-law Jared Kushner has until tomorrow to hand over information on his security clearance.
PAUL: Congressional committees are investigating if there was any inappropriate meetings or contacts between Russian officials and Trump associates during the 2016 campaign.
SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, the president is slamming the nation's top consumer watchdog group as a total disaster, as questions swirl on who is in charge tomorrow morning after its former director abruptly resigned.
PAUL: Also, a critical week for tax reform. The president heads to Capitol Hill to meet with Republicans to talk about their tax plan and try to push it through. Now, the vote on the GOP tax plan, could this be the first major policy victory for the president and the GOP?
Senators Bernie Sanders and Maria Cantwell will debate Senators Ted Cruz and Tim Scott in a 90-minute CNN town hall. That's a debate. It's live from Washington and hosted by CNN's Jake Tapper and chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
[07:30:06] It's Tuesday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: The pope leaves today to Myanmar, but it's not without controversy. Myanmar was held as hope for democracy.
PAUL: But just last week, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson accused the state of ethnic cleansing against Muslims.
CNN's Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher live from Rome.
I want to read, Delia, what Father Thomas Reese about this trip. He said: Pope Francis is walking through the same mine field in Myanmar. If he is prophetic, he puts Christians at risk. If he is silent about the persecution of the Rohingya, he loses moral credibility.
What is your reaction to that?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christi, this is probably one of the most diplomatically delicate trips to the pope. As you mentioned, he is going at a time both the U.N. and U.S. have accused Myanmar's military of ethnic cleansing of its minority Muslim population, the Rohingyas, and even the language that the pope uses, the word "Rohingyas" is considered inflammatory for Myanmar.
So, all of it will be scrutinized. At the same time, he is going to be a guest in the country and what we have seen in the past with the pope is that he doesn't tend to come out with a heavy hand and offend his hosts. At the same time, he is expected to defend the rights of minority populations in that country. So, certainly, it is a tricky tight rope for Pope Francis.
If anyone could do it, we have seen he is a savvy diplomatic person. He is able to walk that fine line. But it will be a tough one. He will be meeting with Aung San Suu Kyi, perhaps Myanmar's most well- known government leader and she has come under intense international criticism for not speaking about against the atrocities. But her defenders, which include the Catholic cardinal of Myanmar, one of Pope Francis's top advisers on the trip says she is not completely in control. It is the military in control.
And so, he will also be meeting in a crucial meeting with the head of Myanmar's military, the senior general there. And that will be a key meeting to see if Francis can succeed where others have failed -- Christi, Martin.
SAVIDGE: Delia Gallagher, thank you very much for that.
President Trump has called "TIME" magazine paper thin and really flimsy. So, why is the president obsessed with TIME's Person of the Year? We'll discuss it next.
[07:37:04] PAUL: So, a question here. Is the president obsessed with being "TIME" magazine's person of the year? That's a question that's circling after President Trump tweeted this on Friday.
SAVIDGE: "TIME" magazine called and say that I was probably going to be named man/person of the year like last year, but I would have to agree to an interview and a major photo shoot. I said probably is no good and took a pass. Thanks anyway.
But "TIME" magazine quickly shot that down, saying that the president is incorrect. "TIME's" chief content officer adding this, amazing. Not a speck of truth here.
PAUL: Joining us now, Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."
Brian, good to see you.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You, too.
PAUL: So, despite what the president says, I mean, you think on the surface it seems like he wants this honor?
STELTER: I think you're right about that. I'll admit that this is not the most important, most consequential story in the whole world right now, but I do think it's insightful into the president's mindset, into how he thinks about the press and what he wants from big news outlets like "TIME" magazine.
You know, if you look at pictures of President Trump in the Oval Office, sometimes you'll see "TIME" magazine there on his desk. This is a magazine that he has been reading for decades. He cares a lot about getting attention from this magazine. There is even a fake version of "TIME" magazine that used to be hanging on the wall of a few of his golf clubs.
So, now that he is saying he took a pass of the man of the year title -- by the way, there is that fake cover. That's so interesting "The Washington Post" found those back earlier this year and was able to find photographic proof of them. Not quite a real "TIME" magazine cover there on the walls of his golf club. As for the real "TIME" magazine, you know, they were trying to decide who should the man of the year be, who should the person of the year be.
There's actually of suggestion that perhaps it will be women, the women that came forward to accuse Harvey Weinstein of wrongdoing and then caused this international tipping point. I'm not sure what that cover would look like, if they highlight single individual on the cover or a group of people.
But there's a lot of options for "TIME" magazine. President Trump is one of the obvious options. Now, he says he doesn't want the title. We'll see what the editors ultimately decide to do.
SAVIDGE: Brian, one of the things you point out, I thought the same thing too, in the president's tweet is the fact that he seems to imply he turned it down, in part, because he didn't want to give an interview. He has not really given interviews to legitimate news outlets for a long time.
STELTER: That's why I think this is actually is a significant tweet. You know, he is saying he turned down because they would insist on an interview before giving him the title. I'm not sure that's actually how it works in the "TIME" magazine process, but it's worth pointing out that for six months now, ever since Robert Mueller was pointed special counsel, President Trump really only speaks to friendly interviewers from FOX News, from right wing radio and places like that. He doesn't give interviews for the journalists of FOX News. It's really just the opinion hosts who he believes are friendly to him that he'll speak with.
So, we've seen a reluctance to give interviews by President Trump.
[07:40:01] At the same time, he is adding fuel to his media fire, you know, criticizing "TIME", and CNN, and other outlets on Twitter. And, by the way, none of that does anything to improve the economy or bring jobs back. It's just his venting using Twitter to vent, of course. Although come to think of it, maybe he'll sell a few more copies of "TIME" magazine.
SAVIDGE: "TIME" is probably loving it all.
PAUL: So, what else are you talking about this morning, Brian?
STELTER: Well, I mentioned a barb against CNN. We're going to get into his back and forth about our sister channel CNN International and why he is criticizing that channel later today on "RELIABLE SOURCES".
PAUL: All righty. Thank you so much, Brian. Good to see you.
And again, as you said, he is not going anywhere. Brian Stelter on "RELIABLE SOURCES" at 11:00 a.m. Eastern today. It's right here on CNN.
Well, Cyntoia Brown who was just 16 when she was given a life sentence for murder for killing a 43-year-old man who she says was trying to have sex with her. Next, why some are fighting to give her case another look.
SAVIDGE: But, first, in today's "Staying Well" segment, a study finds learning how to dance is good for your brain. At one Colorado couple says they are living proof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I dance because I love it. I love everything from the motion and the music to the feeling of dancing with others.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suddenly, I had a place where I could fit in with people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel that dancing has slowed the deterioration of my memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep swinging.
AGA BURZYNSKA, NEUROSCIENTIST, COLORADO STATE UNIVERSITY: Dancing is so special because it's a physical activity that connects us to other people. Over 200 people took part in our study and some of them brisk walking. One group is stretching and toning. And one group that's dancing.
And all of them participated for six months and all other groups we saw typical age-related deterioration of the brains, and the dancing group, we observed some improvement in one of the brain regions that is involved in memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Swing. Swing. Swing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will do probably 10 to 12 different dances. Each one of which we need to learn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Big thing for me, it's a puzzle. You're putting the pieces together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dancing has been a big contributor in helping me stay younger feeling.
[07:47:04] PAUL: Cyntoia Brown, she's been in prison a decade now but her case is catching fire on social media #freecentoiabrown after being shared on Instagram by pop superstar Rihanna.
And here's a background, Brown says when she was just 16, after forced into prostitution, a 43-year-old man took her home and tried to have sex with her. Brown says in self-defense she shot him because she feared for her life and despite her age, she was tried as an adult, sentence to life in prison and won't be eligible for parole until she is 69 years old.
Well, one of the people trying to change that is with us now. Her attorney, Charles Bone.
Charles, thank you so much for being here with us. We appreciate it.
First and foremost, I want to ask you, how is she doing? And is she aware of this new public campaign to try to help her?
CHARLES BONE, ATTORNEY FOR CYNTOIA BROWN: Cyntoia is a remarkable young woman and she is very aware. She is amazed by the publicity that's been generated this week.
PAUL: Help us understand who she is now. I understand -- I mean, she's been in prison for what, has it been about 13 years? And she's gotten a college degree, is that right?
BONE: Thirteen years and she's gotten her GED and her associate of arts degree from Lipscomb University and now, she's very close to getting her bachelor's degree.
PAUL: She -- from what I read from her background, if it's correct, suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome. She grew up in an abusive home where drugs were rampant. She ran away from adoptive parents. She was raped and forced into prostitution by a pimp, as I understand it. What was it about her and about this case that made you say, I need to try to help this woman?
BONE: Well, there's an amazing documentary that Dan Birman did in 2010 and when we saw that documentary, a group of us, with lawyers and others, got together to say, you know, we need to -- we need to do our best to see if we can write this wrong.
PAUL: Yes, I understand you filed a petition for post-conviction relief after the Supreme Court banned life without parole sentences for juveniles.
What are your most pressing obstacles to making a release happen for her right now?
BONE: Well, the case will be heard in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals sometimes in 2018. Also, we are in the process of asking the Board of Pardons and Paroles and the governor to consider an action that would commute her sentence and allow her to serve a much lighter sentence. Further, we hope that the legislature of Tennessee would take some action that would be of some help to her.
PAUL: OK, I want to bring Joey Jackson into the mix here, because, Joey, I think when a lot of people hear this story, realize that at 16, she was -- she was convicted as an adult of first degree murder, first degree felony murder, aggravated robbery.
[07:50:13] People aren't absolved obviously by public outcry. But what has to happen in the legal realm to secure her release here?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, good to see you, Christi.
And let me compliment Charles Bone for taking this case. I think that needs to happen because you want to hold the system accountable.
Understand it's an uphill battle, though, right? I mean, the biggest problem is, you have a system that needs to balance three things, right? Punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation. Certainly, you want to punish someone.
But the issue now is at 16 years old is a sentence where she's up for parole at 69. Is that the appropriate punishment? Furthermore, when you look at a 16-year-old, you have to know that something is fundamentally different about brain development, what any of us do at 21, at 25, at 45, what we would do as a 16-year-old, the answer to that question is no.
Having said that and having read Mr. Bone's analysis and his brief here, you know, the question then becomes when you look and analyze her actions, there's a person dead. That person was 43 years old. There is an indication at least from the prosecution that he was shot and he was robbed, because she took rifles and, of course, his wallet or his pants away from him.
So, the question is now, is the punishment appropriate and based on all areas that will be made at the trial level and the appellate level, is even perhaps a new trial in her future? And so, that's something that is going to have to be looked at, in addition to the remedies what Mr. Bone talked about, and that is whether there would be a commutation of the sentence to make it less, or whether they would be legislative action that would interpose a sentence that would be less than she would have now. PAUL: So, Joey, when you read through this, what was your initial
thought about the conviction and the sentence for it? Because on the outside, we thought somebody make some sense of this for us.
JACKSON: You know, Christi, in looking at it, the crime is very heinous. And when I looked at that, you know, certainly it deserves punishment. Now, apparently, at the trial level, the argument was self-defense. Apparently, when she went to this man's home, you know, she was a prostitute being put up to it by her pimp named Cut (ph). Apparently, when she went to this man's home, he went to reach under the bed, and as a result of that, he was scared of what he would do, pulled out a pistol from her pocketbook that she was given by her pimp and shot him.
So, obviously, that was what was argued at trial, but it didn't carry the day. So, now, you look to whether or not if she was convicted of this crime, what can happen now? And I know she has all of these past histories of, you know, mental abuse and her mental deficiencies and alcohol that her mother went through.
JACKSON: So, the only thing you can hope for is that there would be a commutation of the sentence and the sentence would be a bit less than it is now.
PAUL: So, Charles, Kim Kardashian even put on her Instagram, I called my attorneys to see what can be done to fix this. How much explanation do you think celebrities have in a case like this? Do they enact change or is it the publicity that's so powerful here?
BONE: Well, actually, it's both and we welcome -- we welcome all of the support from the celebrities like Kim and also her legal team. And we look forward to working with all of the volunteers who have been a part of this, you know, really around the world, but especially here in Tennessee for many years.
PAUL: Joey Jackson, thank you so much for breaking it down for us.
Charles Bone, we appreciate you and the work you're doing. And please keep us informed. We want to follow this and know what happens to Cyntoia.
BONE: Thank you.
PAUL: Sure. Take good care.
And thank you all so much for spending time with us. Martin, thank you. Always so good to have you here.
SAVIDGE: Thank you very much. Don't forget, "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next with Nia-Malika Henderson. It will be right after this quick break.
Meanwhile, in tonight's "PARTS UNKNOWN", Anthony Bourdain takes the sights and sounds of southern Italy into his realm. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, HOST, "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN": I've never been to this part of Italy before.
The exposed underneath of Italy. There is a romance to this country. I'm here because of Asia Argento. We did a show together in Rome.
ASIA ARGENTO, ACTRESS: Does this remind of cowboy movies?
BOURDAIN: A little bit.
BOURDAIN: It's confusing. Is Italy even a country? Is it a conglomeration or a loose association of different cultures?
[07:55:00] And what's happening in this perfect, beautiful, delicious, wonderful, confusing, awesome place?