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Judge Blocks Trump's Efforts to End DREAMers Program; Top Dem Defies GOP Releases Dossier Interview Testimony. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2018 - 07:00   ET


CLAPPER: ... by senators Grassley and Senator Graham is another manifestation of this. So we're more concerned with attacking messengers than we are the substance content which to me is the more important matter.

[07:00:14] CUOMO: Jim Clapper, who was at the center of a lot of this investigating, says the dossier was not what the investigation was about. There is independent sourcing above and beyond that.

Thank you for the clarification, sir. Always a pleasure to have you on the show.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: And thanks to you, our international viewers, for watching. For you, CNN "NEWSROOM" is going to be next. But for our U.S. viewers, NEW DAY continues right now. Let's get after it.


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A surprise federal injunction complicates negotiations over the DREAMers.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This should be a bipartisan bill. This should be a bill of love.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is laying this straight on Congress's lap. If they don't come up with something, it's their fault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody around the table said that we needed to fix DACA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any deal with DACA has to include a wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several Republicans after the meeting said that they were confused what they actually wanted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's complicated, Mr. President. If it was easy, we would have done it.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Christopher Steele was so concerned Trump was being blackmailed by Russia, that he went personally to the FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It takes away this idea that this service is somehow a partisan motive.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT), CONNECTICUT: The American people have a right to know exactly what Glenn Simpson told them.


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Pretty summarized there. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

And we do begin with breaking news for you. Because a federal judge in California temporarily blocking the Trump administration's efforts to end the program protecting DREAMers from deportation.

This injunction comes on the very same day President Trump met with lawmakers in this remarkable, hourlong televised event that give us a rare glimpse at the president's negotiating skills. So will President Trump insist on a wall in order to strike a deal on DREAMers? We're still not clear at this point.

CUOMO: Also big news this morning, the feud over that infamous Trump/Russia dossier intensifying after Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein releases the transcript of an interview with the head of the firm behind it. What does the public release of that transcript mean to congressional investigations going forward?

We have it all covered. Let's begin with CNN's Joe Johns live at the White House with our top story -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Chris, that surprise nationwide injunction adding another level of uncertainty to the tug of war over the DREAMers. And it came after an almost stunning performance by President Trump on nationwide TV at that meeting with members of Congress.

This comes from a president who staked much of his campaign on tough, almost angry rhetoric directed toward immigrants, now sounding much more accommodating on the idea of comprehensive immigration reform.


JOHNS (voice-over): A federal judge blocking the Trump administration's decision to end the DREAMers program on March 5, ruling that protections must remain in place while pending legal challenges proceed and ordering the government to resume taking renewal applications.

The Justice Department responding that the ruling does not change its position that the Obama-era program is unlawful, asserting that it will continue to defend its position in further litigation.

The late-night court surprise coming hours after the remarkable televised meeting between President Trump and bipartisan lawmakers over a potential deal for the DREAMers. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This should be a

bipartisan bill. This should be a bill of love. Truly should be a bill of love.

JOHNS: President Trump suggesting a compassionate solution, suggesting flexibility.

TRUMP: I think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with.

JOHNS: Mr. Trump also signaling an openness to pursuing a larger immigration deal.

TRUMP: If we do this properly, DACA, you're not so far away from comprehensive immigration reform. And if you want to take it that further step, I'll take the heat. I don't care. I don't care. I'll take all the heat you want to give me. And I'll take the heat off both the Democrats and the Republicans.

JOHNS: At times, the president appearing to contradict himself, insisting that border security must be part of any agreement but also suggesting he is open to a clean DACA bill.

TRUMP: I have no problem. I think that's basically what Dick (ph) is saying. We're going to come up with DACA. We're going to do DACA, and then we can start immediately on the phase two, which would be comprehensive.

JOHNS: House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy interjecting this.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), MAJORITY LEADER: Mr. President, you need to be clear, though. I think what Senator Feinstein's asking here, when we talk about just DACA, we don't want to be back here two years later. You have to have security.

JOHNS: It was unclear if border security meant a wall. The White House offering little clarity.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What has to be part of a deal in order for these DREAMers to have protection.

[07:05:04] SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Border security does have to be part of this process. Andrew...

ACOSTA: But you understand how a wall could be different than border security, Sarah. Border security can be...

SANDERS: No. Actually, I don't. No.

ACOSTA: Border security could mean agents; it could mean more fencing. It doesn't necessarily mean a physical wall that the president...

SANDERS: And that's part of the negotiation that we expect Congress to have.

JOHNS: Mr. Trump later tweeting that a wall must be part of any DACA approval.


JOHNS: Make no mistake: the president's televised meeting was, first and foremost, an attempt to put to rest any questions about the president's fitness for office that had been circulating now for days. One source telling CNN it was about seizing the mike, the megaphone.

Today we expect to see the president at a news conference with the prime minister of Norway. This will be his first actual news conference with members of the media since November -- Alisyn and Chris.

CAMEROTA: Joe, you've given us a lot to talk about. Thank you very much.

Joining us now is CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and CNN Politics reporter and editor at large Chris Cillizza. Jeffrey, let's first start with the judge's ruling that appears to protect the DREAMers, at least for now. What do you -- how does this change everything, what happened yesterday with the judge?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it sort of lifts the sword of Damocles a little for -- above the DREAMers who are, you know -- who are exposed to deportation starting in March.

The problem is no one knows how long this ruling will last and whether it will be overturned on appeal. And even on its own terms, it's just a temporary reprieve.

So the short answer is Congress really does still have to resolve the issue of the DREAMers. The DREAMers are in a somewhat better litigation position. But for a permanent solution, something like green cards for these 800,000 people. It has to be an act of Congress. And that's really what the meeting in the White House was about yesterday.

CUOMO: It's interesting, Chris. I like the idea and the sword of Damocles. The rub is, though, the sword of Damocles anecdote is about that blade falling on the heads of those in power. And even though we have this ruling, the onus on Congress remains. They have to figure out the solution. This may buy time, may give some a sense of foot dragging. But at the end of the day, it's their word.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT AND EDITOR AT LARGE: He would say that this puts even more of sort of an onus on Congress to do something.

Because, look, this -- this bill is going to come due. As Jeffrey points out, this is March when this program is going to end if nothing changes.

The president -- I think the president gets style points credit. Alisyn said the last hour, I think it's exactly right. This was the guy that lots of people voted for, which is a non-ideological deal- maker. You know, a guy who's sort of has broken the typical political conventions, is willing to make deals.

Now, first of all, he hasn't really governed like that in the past year. The other problem, though, is that it didn't move the policy debate. We had a debate over border security versus DACA, who's going to give funding for the wall. We had that debate going into yesterday's meeting. We had the debate coming out of yesterday's meeting. So yes, he gets style points.

But point of fact, did the debate fundamentally change? Didn't we get closer to a finish line before March? I don't know.

CAMEROTA: We just don't know because a lot of that happens behind the scenes.

CUOMO: But should it? Should it? One good question, raised yesterday, should all of this stuff be televised in a way that's not just on C-SPAN. Do you think he gets fitness points?


CUOMO: Does this help with the "Fire and Fury," Chris?

CILLIZZA: I mean...

CUOMO: I love when he does that.

CILLIZZA: I'm just skeptical. I just don't see. I forget stuff all the time. I don't see, because he forgets things and repeats himself as evidence that there's obvious mental deterioration. I made this point before. I'll make it again.

He is impetuous. He is a -- he is a bully. He aligns facts in the best of circumstances. But that doesn't make you mentally unfit for the job. It may well make you temperamentally unfit for the job.

But if that's the case, he was temperamentally unfit for the job, temperamentally unfit when he won. So I never bought into it candidly. He's -- he's on this rapid downward slide for mental incapacity.

If you did, I think his ability to carry out a conversation, while I'll note that was very light on specifics. And he did contradict himself on a number of occasions. The fact that Kevin McCarthy had to step in and say, "OK, Mr. President we're not going to do a clean DACA bill," speaks to his lack of sort of deep policy knowledge.


CILLIZZA: But I don't think that that means that you're mentally deteriorated.

CAMEROTA: Well, Jeffrey, let's just play a little portion of the meeting for people who may have missed this extraordinary spectacle. Watch this.

TOOBIN: Can we just agree first that Chris Cillizza is not qualified to be president, is unfit?

CAMEROTA: I'm with you. I'm not going to agree to that.

CUOMO: Show them the watch.

CILLIZZA: The anti-watch campaign.

CUOMO: Show them the watch.

CAMEROTA: Chris has watch issues, I just want to say.

CUOMO: Jeffrey, you make the call on the watch. He's got a white Swatch on.

CILLIZZA: People like it. Many people say that it's a very nice Swatch.

CAMEROTA: What do the polls say?

OK. Let's watch this moment, and then we'll talk about the watch.

CUOMO: They won't even show your watch, by the way.


TRUMP: This should be a bipartisan bill. This should be a bill of love.

If we do this properly, DACA, you're not so far away from comprehensive immigration reform. And if you want to take it that further step, I'll take the heat. I don't care. We'll do DACA, and we can certainly start comprehensive immigration reform the following afternoon. OK. We'll take an hour off, and then we'll start.


CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, wasn't that fascinating? I mean, wasn't it also instructive to be truly a fly on the wall to watch how -- I mean, not only the president's temperamental -- temperament...

CILLIZZA: Temperament.

CAMEROTA: ... but also just how lawmakers deal with each other.

TOOBIN: No, it was totally riveting. But part of what made it so interesting, as President Cillizza pointed out, is that it was -- at times it sounded like the president was taking the Democratic position, even if that clip we just showed. You know, Dianne Feinstein had just said, "Look, let's do DACA. Let's do a bill that protects these 800,000 young people."

CAMEROTA: A clean bill.

TOOBIN: A clean bill. And then let's move on. That's the Democratic position. And the president said, "Yes, let's do that, and then we'll deal with the security issues." And that's when Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader in the House said, "Wait a minute, Mr. President..."


TOOBIN: "... we can't do that. We have to do it all together."

CAMEROTA: That is his interest in a deal over the doctrine. Right?

CUOMO: That gets tricky. Because it turns into a point of what can you believe about Trump? The good explanation is he's not dogmatic. All right. But you have to have principles.

He insisted during the campaign that the wall was real. There was nothing semantic about it. There was nothing metaphorical about it. He said, "This is what makes mem different. I won't quit on you when it comes to this."

So then yesterday he quit on them when it came to that. He was open to a wall meaning different things. And you remember him attacking Jeb Bush when Jeb Bush said in the debate, "Hey, listen, this isn't a criminal act when people bring their kids across into this country. It's an act of love."

He was like, "Oh, please." "Bill of love" is an extension of "act of love." Do you remember how the Republicans assailed Chris Cillizza, President George W. Bush for saying "comprehensive immigration reform." "No, no. You can't do it. It's too big; it's too scary." He used the exact same phrase.

CILLIZZA: Remember Rick Perry. Let's not forget Rick Perry saying, you know, the people who don't -- aren't for protecting these people have hate in their heart. He got criticized for that.

It marks -- your point marks the huge chasm between the sort of ideological rigidity that Donald Trump ran on, which is particularly as it relates to immigration and the border, and everything else that his life suggested, which was a massive fungibility in terms of belief system. That he's a Democrat, he's a Republican. He's an independent. He's pro-choice He's pro-life. He's pro-gay marriage. He's anti-gay marriage.

Everything we knew about him suggested he be this dealmaker. But then the campaign he ran was hugely ideological and rigid. And the question is which of those two is really him.

CUOMO: "I voted for him because I don't like who's here. I want him out and I want a wall." And then he says a wall can mean different things to different people.

CILLIZZA: A wall is a real wall tomorrow. I mean, that's the thing about him. Like what he says today is not predictive of what he believes tomorrow.

TOOBIN: And -- I mean, I just have to raise this again. A wall that would be paid for by Mexico.

CILLIZZA: Correct. TOOBIN: I mean, how many times did he say that in the campaign every

day? And that promise has just completely disappeared. It was ridiculous to start with. But it was a promise that was made. And I guess it's just not operative anymore.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey Toobin, Chris Cillizza, thank you very much.

CUOMO: Coming up in the next hour, we're going to discuss this and a lot of other news with senators Elizabeth Warren and Mark Warner.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein ignoring her Republican colleagues and releasing 312 pages of testimony by the co- founder of that research firm Fusion GPS. That, of course, was responsible for the Trump-Russia dossier.

CNN's Manu Raju poured through it all. He gives us all of the pertinent information from Washington -- Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, Senator Feinstein released that transcript, despite the furious objections of the Republican chairman. Chuck Grassley, who warned it would undermine the investigation.

[07:15:07] Now in that August interview that Glenn Simpson did what the committee, he says his firm hired the British spy, Christopher Steele, to examine Trump's past, including why the then-candidate Trump did business in Moscow.

Well, according to Simpson, Steele was so alarmed that he felt obligated to alert the FBI in the summer of 2016. Now, this is what Simpson said, according to the transcript. Chris was -- said he was very concerned about whether this represented a national security threat and said he thought he -- we were obligated to tell someone in our government about this information. He thought from his perspective there was an issue, a security issue about whether a presidential candidate was being blackmailed.

Now, in addition to this, Simpson also testified that Steele told him the FBI had similar intelligence from an internal Trump campaign source to help back up the dossier. And we now know that is in reference to information passed onto the FBI about the former campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, who since then has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his Russia contacts during the campaign. Now senators on the Senate Judiciary Committee, including the Democrat, Chris Coons, say the decision by Feinstein to leak the transcript shows that this investigation has reached a partisan impasse.


SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: I think it's really unfortunate that the majority and minority on the Judiciary Committee have really come to an impasse in terms of being able to make progress. I think in some ways, this is the the signal of the end of bipartisan cooperation in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: Now, during that interview with the committee, Simpson also would not reveal who Christopher Steele's sources were, with Simpsons attorney even saying one of the Russian sources who had helped work on that dossier had been killed. Now we now know from our own sources that that comment was in a reference to the string of deaths of high- profile Russians that occurred after the 2016 elections.

Now, all of this comes as Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, announced plans last night to sue both Fusion GPS and the news organization BuzzFeed for publishing the dossier last year over his concerns of defamation, because he says the allegations against him in the dossier are wrong -- Chris.

CUOMO: Manu, interesting suit. We will follow it for sure. Appreciate the reporting. It was very interesting in that transcript, for all the talk about releasing the transcript now, it's interesting how it started off with Simpson, the GPS founder, wanting to keep it quiet.

But boy, have the politics changed? All right. So how will a judge's ruling impact negotiations on Capitol Hill today over the fate of DREAMers? We have a Democratic senator who is a key player. Where does he think things stand?


[07:21:57] CUOMO: A federal judge has temporarily blocked President Trump's plan to end protections for DREAMers. The ruling comes just hours after the president expressed support for a bipartisan immigration bill that includes DREAMer protections and expanded border security.

So the big question is how will this ruling affect negotiations on Capitol Hill? Joining us now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.

Good to have you, sir, as always. What's your answer to that question?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, you know, I watched that meeting yesterday and got readouts from my friends who were there. And it looked as if, seemed as if pretty much everybody around the table agreed with the president in supporting protecting these kids. The vast majority are Americans, who want these kids who are Americans to be able to stay here.

The disagreement doesn't seem to be over that. The disagreement seems to be over this wall that the president continues to want. I think the judge's ruling has an impact. What he said in the decision is that the decision by the president to suspend this protection is likely to be found to be arbitrary and capricious. The administration didn't go through any formal rule-making in order to end the protections put in place for these kids by President Obama.

And you know, that may be one of the things that's necessary to give a little push for this protection across the finish line. It just seems like everybody agrees on this part of the equation. It seems like the part that's most controversial that maybe should be shelved into a later day is the question of the wall.

CUOMO: Well, it wound up being more complex, or at least it seemed to me -- please feel free to disagree. Watching the meeting yesterday, was both sides say we want to protect these people. The president's saying "bill of love," which was a nice borrow from Jeb Bush when he said that this was an act of love when people bring their kids with them illegally into this country.

But the attachment of other things, let's talk about that. Because two of the four things that the president says he wants, getting rid of the lottery, getting rid of chain immigration or migration to this country, those are things the Gang of Eight, the Democrats in the group had agreed on already. So why should those sticking points right now? You've agreed to those in the past.

MURPHY: Yes. So that's right. I mean, the 2013 immigration bill that passed the United States Senate, there was massive new border security investments, including money for a new physical wall.

So you know, there isn't a question as to whether Democrats would support increased funding for border security or some of the other measures the Republicans are talking about.

The question is whether you should hold these kids hostage to those more complicated negotiations. The fact is there are kids losing their protected status every single day. And of course, we only have a couple more months, before...

CUOMO: No, I get that. I get the exigency for deportation.

MURPHY: I'm saying let's get that done, and then let's work on the other pieces.

CUOMO: Look, I get it. I'm just testing the position. If you are OK with fixes to the lottery system, if you are OK with fixes to chain migration, if you say you'll fund the border, and it seemed like the president fell down on his wall promise yesterday. It's no longer a new bricks-and-mortar structure that expands everywhere that he can, as he promised insistently and said Mexico would pay for it. He backed off that.

[07:25:12] So why not make the accommodation that they're asking for if you're OK with it all fundamentally anyway?

MURPHY: Well, listen, we have no idea what the president is talking about on this wall. Yes, he seemed to back down from his insistence on it being a complete wall during that meeting.

But then he went on Twitter shortly thereafter and seemed to reiterate his demand that it be a complete, total, physical wall. The issue of chain migration, as you know, is incredibly complex.

I don't know what they mean by that. If they mean that families shouldn't be reunited, that we shouldn't allow families to live together here in the United States, that's not something that the Democrats are going to agree to.

CUOMO: But you saw the consequences of 2013 on that issue, Senator. Democrats chewed on this...

MURPHY: That's right. Yes, no, no. There's clearly room for a compromise, room for work here. The question is if everybody agrees that the DREAMers should be protected, if that's not one of the things that's controversial, why not just get that...

CUOMO: They saw this movie before in 1986. And if you give amnesty to the people here, whatever word you want to use, I know amnesty has become a dirty word. If you use whatever word you want and you don't do the -- the compatible security provisions, it won't get done. So they want both in the same bill.

MURPHY: So -- so then remove this hammer that is hanging over the heads of DREAMers. The president has said that he wants to remove their protected status starting in March. If we want to do a comprehensive immigration reform bill, that's do it. But then the president needs to remove his insistence that he's going to deport these kids starting in about 60 days.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something, Dianne Feinstein released the transcript of Glenn Simpson, the Fusion GPS, was it the right move?

MURPHY: I think it was the right move.

CUOMO: ... ruin the chance on the committee of bipartisanship?

MURPHY: Well, remember, the Republicans on that committee didn't consult with her with respect to their referral to the -- to the Department of Justice.

CUOMO: Tit for tat? Is that the way to do it?

MURPHY: Well, no. But unfortunately, you know, comedy has fallen apart on that committee for the time being. I think it's just another reminder that if we're going to get to the bottom of what happens with respect to the 2016 election, it's going to come through Robert Mueller's investigation.

I've always been skeptical that the Judiciary Committee or the Intelligence Committee was going to be able to keep Republicans and Democrats together on their own investigations. I think we've got to -- we've got to count on Mueller being the only place that's going to ultimately get to the facts here.

CUOMO: Well, when people read that transcript, they'll see the clear intentions of the people on that committee were, and it didn't seem like it was getting to the bottom of the interference.

Senator Chris Murphy, always a pleasure to have you on the show. Best for the new year.

MURPHY: Thanks. CUOMO: So coming up on "CUOMO IN PRIME TIME" tonight, I don't like

saying that. We've got to find a new name. A lot of face, right? A lot of face coming at you. A lot of nose. A little clip on the hairline. I don't know how I feel about that.

But what really matters the substance. And we have Kellyanne Conway on. What is the truth about what the wall means to the president? It seems to be a huge sticking point.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio. We're going to test him tonight. He says he wants to run for the Senate. Is he the right choice for Arizona? Even for Arizona Republicans? Tonight, 9 p.m. Eastern.

CAMEROTA: I'm sort of mesmerized about the Mona Lisa expression that you were wearing there. Sort of enigmatic.

CUOMO: I am not usually one to possess that which is inscrutable.

All right. So what was it like inside the president's televised meeting with lawmakers on immigration? It was remarkable to watch. We'll find out what it felt like to be in there with a congressman next.