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Trump Remarks At DACA Meeting. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 12, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 9:00 p.m. in Nairobi, Kenya, 2:30 a.m. in Pyongyang, North Korea. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with the vile and vulgar comments by the president of the United States, echoing across Washington and, indeed, around the world.

President Trump today tweeted a half-hearted denial that he denigrated immigrants coming from, and I won't use the slur, let's leave it, asshole countries.

But Senator Dick Durbin who was in the Oval Office meeting says the president did make those remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: To no surprise, the president started tweeting this morning, denying that he used those words. It is not true. He said these hateful things and he said them repeatedly. And he said Haitians. Do we need more Haitians?

And then, he went on and started to describe the immigration from Africa that it was being protected in this bipartisan nature. That's when he used these vile and vulgar comments, calling the nations they come from shitholes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president tweeted this language, quote, "the language used by me at the DACA meeting, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made a big setback for DACA."

Let's bring in our Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta. Jim, the president also denying he made derogatory comments about Haitians. But in earlier statements, the White House did not deny any of the remarks that were so widely reported.

What is the official word you're getting?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And that's basically where we are, at this point, Wolf. We have these, sort of, conflicting comments. The president in his own press office, in terms of what he said in this meeting with that bipartisan group of lawmakers.

We should point out, Wolf, in just the last several minutes, Senator Tom Cotton, David Perdue, they put out a joint statement saying that they do not recall. That's the word or the phrase being used in that statement. They do not recall President Trump making those comments as described by Senator Durbin. Those comments you just played by Senator Durbin, a few moments ago.

But we should point out, in the South Carolina "Coast and Courier" newspaper, in just the last several minutes, a story has posted of Tim Cotton -- or excuse me it's Tim Scott, the African-American senator from South Carolina. He has said now publicly that Senator Graham, who was also in that meeting, has confirmed to him that the reports of the president's comments are accurate.

So, as this story is developing, Wolf, we're starting to get different takes coming in. Obviously, two of those participants, Cotton and Perdue, were saying it didn't happen. But Graham, apparently, is telling Senator Tim Scott, down in South Carolina, that this did happen.

Now, we should point out, in the last several minutes, the president did hold an event over here at the White House, signing a proclamation, honoring Martin Luther King Day which is, of course, on Monday.

During that event, reporters were in the room and were asking the president questions, shouting questions at the president, about these remarks.

At one point, April Ryan, who's a Contributor over here at CNN, asked the president point blank, are you a racist? He did not respond to that question. He did not respond to any of those questions.

And, at the moment, Wolf, we should also point out, the president is up at Walter Reed, undergoing a physical examination. That is something the White House has been telling us was going to happen all week long.

But, of course, as we're looking at the president's health and looking for that report on the president's health, of course, much of the world, and even here in Washington, the focus is on what's in the president's soul, at this point, because of the comments that became public yesterday -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, very disturbing comments, indeed.

Jim Acosta over at the White House.

And about a half an hour or so ago, the House speaker, Paul Ryan, was asked about President Trump's remarks. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN, HOUSE SPEAKER: I read those comments later last night. So, the first thing that came to my mind was, very unfortunate, unhelpful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He went on to talk about his own family immigrating to the United States from Ireland.

I want to bring in our panel. Joining us now, the author of "Tears We Cannot Stop: A Sermon to White America," Michael Eric Dyson; our Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson; and our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger.

Let me read the statement, Gloria, that Senator Cotton, Senator Perdue, two of the seven lawmakers who were in the Oval Office for this meeting with the president. I'll read it specifically and then we'll assess.

President Trump brought everyone to the table this week and listened to both sides. But, regrettably, it seems that not everyone is committed to negotiating in good faith.

In regards to Senator Durbin's accusations, we do not recall the saying these comments, specifically. But what we did call out was the imbalance in our current immigration system which does not protect American workers and our national interest.

[13:05:02] We, along with the president, are committed to solving an issue many in Congress have failed to deliver on for decades.

So, you have these two Republican senators sort of denying these reports.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: What is do not recall? That's what I --

BLITZER: They do not recall these comments specifically, sort of denying. Lindsey Graham apparently telling Senator Scott --

BORGER: Well, --

BLITZER: -- that, yes, all these reports, which we've confirmed and other news organizations have confirmed, are accurate.

BORGER: -- you know, we have to -- we have to talk to more people in the room. I don't understand what do not recall specifically means. I mean, I think that's a fudge, completely because it isn't -- he did not say it.

The president is now denying it but trying to fudge it. And you've got Durbin out there saying that's exactly what he said. So, I think that we have to try to get to the bottom of this more and more.

But I know from my reporting and Kaitlyn Collins over at the White House that the president has been calling his friends and loving this and thinking he did a great thing for his base, although he's been told maybe that's not the truth.

BLITZER: That's very disturbing, if he thinks, Nia, that this is good. The words that were uttered in that meeting, that that was good to resonate with that base.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. I mean, it's essentially saying that what resonates with the base is making racist comments, right, basically comparing Africans to Norwegians unfavorably and saying, essentially, that American -- the American immigration system should be race-based.

And not only that -- and I thought but Mia Love's comments were spot on. She didn't even mention race. She talked about the comments being divisive. She talked about the comments being elitist. And that is exactly what they are.

They're elitist. They're classist. They, basically, turn on this notion that where you are from, whether it's Africa or Haiti, determines who you can be and who you are which is a very dangerous --

BORGER: What happens to the (INAUDIBLE)?

HENDERSON: Exactly. It's a very dangerous, anti-American idea. And, there, the president seeming to be proud expressing it to his base.

BLITZER: Let me ask you, Michael. The president tweeted this morning, the language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough but that was not the language used. What does the president, from your perspective, need to do now to fix this? Because, certainly, a lot of people would be grateful to him if he publicly apologized.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, CONTRIBUTING OPINION WRITER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Probably have a stay at Walter Reed for the next three years. Failing that, I think what's necessary for this president to do is to tell the truth. We know that's in -- that's something he's broadly incapable of doing.

Saying tough talk, tell us what that means. Let's press him a bit on his own terms. What does tough mean? Does it mean that you're harkening back to 1882 when we had the Chinese Exclusion Act and didn't finish that until 1943? Are you harkening back to 1952 when we aimed our immigration policies at trying to keep the communists and anarchists out?

Are you aiming it toward 1965, when we said, let's open wide our borders and let's have the huddle teaming masses come in? In 1962 -- or 1965, and we said, let's let Puerto Ricans and Brazilians and people from across the world be American?

And this is the theme we have, the cradle, E Pluribus Unum, out of many, one. This man is an unvarnished, racist and unmitigated bigoted person who is incapable of acknowledging that that's the truth about him.

He appeals to his base because he is thinks his base is racially charged because white resentment against the perception of brown and black people taking over is exactly what he talked about. They won't go back to their hut. It's the hutted masses that he's fearful of.

Now, Haitians, dry foot-wet foot policies in America. Cubans come in. Haitians stay back. We are seeing the cumulative impact of the practices of America to deny the legitimacy of Haitians and Africans.

And now, it's biting us in the behind and the president of the United States of America is assaulting an entire continent and a group of people who are black with a pernicious stereotype that all good Americans are called upon to reject.

When Paul Ryan says, it's unhelpful, he is a coward.

HENDERSON: And it's unfortunate, yes.

DYSON: Stand up and say, this is a racist comment that is unacceptable in America.

BLITZER: The problem now is that the words were ugly. There's no doubt about that. Very vile, very vulgar. But it will have -- they will have an impact on this negotiation to allow 800,000 dreamers, as they're called, to stay here in the United States. It will have an impact on U.S. relations with a lot of countries around the world.

BORGER: Yes, of course. I mean, we have ambassadors being called in, in various African nations like Botswana, to go -- to go explain the language of the president of the United States. And as you have these negotiations -- and I want to -- I want to remind you of that open meeting we saw, where the president said, bring something to me and I will sign it.

DYSON: Right

BLITZER: I'll take the heat, he said.

BORGER: I'll take the heat. And now, he's saying, no, no, no. What they 've come up with, I don't -- I don't really like. And so, you know, yes, it's going to have an impact on that.

[13:10:00] But I think there is a larger impact which is the reputation of this nation, the values that we stand for, the divisiveness that this will -- that this will sow within our -- within our own country.

And, by the way, if the president and the president's people believe that this is going to be supported by all of his base, I would like to disagree with that.

I will say that you are shortchanging people who voted for Donald Trump, perhaps because they were sick of everything in Washington. I don't think that means that they're going to support the president on this 100 percent at all. I think that is selling them short.

HENDERSON: But it does because a lot of the conversation around President Trump was this idea that he was connecting with people over economics. I think he --

DYSON: Right.

HENDERSON: -- is, in some ways, being truthful, at least about a portion of his base, that they were, as Professor Dyson was saying, motivated by racial animus, motivated by what is clear.

BORGER: (INAUDIBLE.)

HENDERSON: No, you're right. I said, a portion. I said, a portion of it. Yes, yes, yes.

DYSON: But enough to make what he's doing rewarding to him? Enough to say that parts of my base will say, go get 'em, tiger? And stand up and tell the truth?

And the unfortunate reality is here is that here's a president who's piping this kind of vicious bigotry and horrendous thoughts about African people and about Haitian people. At a time when we need to forge connections and build bridges so that the world, which is increasingly shrinking because of threats of terror, globalization and the like.

This president is not only failing to deal with race, he's failing to deal with the very economic problems that poor, white people are suffering anyway.

BLITZER: Yes. So, Gloria, so, there were seven lawmakers in this meeting --

BORGER: Right. Right.

BLITZER: -- in the Oval Office yesterday. We've now heard from Republican Senators Perdue and Cotton. We heard from Democratic Senator Dick Durbin. Very different assessments of what exactly happened during that meeting in the Oval Office.

We're still -- Lindsey Graham.

BORGER: Directly, we need to hear.

BLITZER: We need to hear directly from him. He's quoted as saying, yes, --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- the reports are accurate. We need to hear from Lindsey Graham. Kevin McCarthy is the House majority leader and we've got to hear from him. We've got to hear from the others as well, if there's going to be a full assessment. They were there.

DYSON: Martin Luther King Jr. said the greatest lack of courage is shown when you are silence in a time of crisis. And if these men cannot speak up and say, you know what? He did say it.

If we are arguing over the facts, if we can't even have United States senators tell the truth about what actually happened, we are a at poor point in American politics, where we can -- we can acknowledge it and then get over it. We can acknowledge it and address it.

But if we can't even acknowledge the basic, fundamental fact of the man saying it, they are collaborationists with normalizing the mendacity that is pouring with venom out of this man's mouth.

BORGER: And I -- I want to just say something that someone told me who speaks to Trump regularly and is a friend of Donald Trump's. He said to me, you know, Donald Trump loves taking things to the edge and then proving that he won't fall off.

And when he called his friends -- and he was, kind of -- as Kaitlan Collins reportedly originally, he was, sort of, calling people around to take their pulse. He was, sort of, saying, you know what? I said what I said and a lot of people are going to agree with me.

And he has this faith in himself that whatever he does -- and remember what he said during the campaign, I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue?

HENDERSON: Yes. Yes.

DYSON: Right. Right.

BORGER: That whatever he does, he will be ratified by his supporters. And he does it over and over and over again.

HENDERSON: And it speaks to the self-centered nature of this president.

BORGER: Yes.

HENDERSON: Right? That he -- it's all about him. It's not about the country.

DYSON: Right. Right.

HENDERSON: It's not about the brand of the Republican Party. It's not about the brand of America globally. It's about him and his faring and his standing, particularly among his base.

BLITZER: Guys, stand by. There is more news that we're following right now.

Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard is standing by as well. She's going to react, for the first time, to the president's remarks.

Also, he's called Kim Jong Un short, fat, crazy, little rocket man. But now, President Trump says he probably has a very good relationship with the North Korean leader.

And the president cancels the trip to London where he would've been met with lots of protests. He cites a bogus reason, involving the U.S. embassy in London. Stand by, we'll discuss that and more.

[13:14:40]

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[13:18:22] BLITZER: The expletive heard around the world. We've all heard it. The president's very, very ugly description of nations in Africa. Also his unwillingness to accept immigrations from Haiti. Now the president says he didn't say that.

Joining us now, the Hawaii congresswoman, the Democrat, Tulsi Gabbard. She's a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

I quickly want to get your reaction to what is so widely reported about what the president said to these lawmakers yesterday.

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: Yes, you know, Wolf, growing up in Hawaii, we learn about, and I believe in what's called the aloha spirit. And what that really means is a practical way is showing respect to others no matter their race, no matter their religion, what country they come from, how much money they have, what level of education they have or anything else. And, unfortunately, President Trump's comments fly directly in the face of that aloha spirit and, frankly, the values that our country represents and stands on.

So I think it's important for us, as we -- as we look at this, and as we look at the path forward, to actually remember that our nation, for generations, has been that shining light on the hill for so many immigrants. People who have sought to come here, sometimes risking their lives, to seek that opportunity, be in a country of freedom, of opportunity, not only for themselves, but for their families and who have that true sense of appreciation of what that really means, often coming from countries that don't have those freedoms.

BLITZER: The words were incredibly ugly, but do you believe the president of the United States is a racist?

[13:19:57] GABBARD: I think name calling is beside the point and doesn't actually accomplish anything. When we look at what's important for the American people, what they're concerned about right now is, what do Donald Trump's policies mean to them? And so when you look at his, quote-unquote merit-based immigration rules that he's advocating for, we've got to ask, what do those merits mean.

It appears that he is talking about only allowing people in this country who have a certain degree, who maybe have a certain amount of money in the bank or who may be coming from countries that maybe they don't necessarily need to leave. As opposed to having a definition of merit that may not meet those material requirements, but really where we're talking about people who have that hunger, who have that drive and determination to come to this country, work hard for themselves and their families and that deep appreciation of what that freedom and opportunity means that this country represents around the world.

BLITZER: Because if those rules were in place over the many years of our country's history, merit-based, only highly educated, only wealthy people who speak English, people who come from certain countries, if only they were allowed in, most of us who are children of immigrants, we wouldn't be here right now.

GABBARD: That's right. And I think that's the issue here is that the very people that President Trump seeks to exclude from this country are those who have contributed so greatly to making our country the great, strong country that it is.

BLITZER: In an interview with "The Wall Street Journal," I want to get some national security, foreign policy issues, the president said this. I probably have a very good relationship with Kim Jong-un.

You're smiling.

He wouldn't say whether or not he's actually ever spoken with Kim Jong-un, the North Korea leader. Someone in the past he likes to call little rocket man.

Do you have any information to back that up that the president has -- probably has a very good relationship with Kim Jong-un?

GABBARD: Look we've been given no information that there have been any direct talks what to speak of between President Trump and Kim Jong-un, or other members of his administration.

This is something that I've been advocating for a long time, Wolf. You know, you and I have talked about the threat that the people of Hawaii feel from North Korea given we fall squarely within the range of their intercontinental ballistic missiles. Hawaii has recently started these nuclear alarm tests every month. So this is a very real threat.

I have been calling for direct negotiations without preconditions between the United States and North Korea, Trump and Kim Jong-un, to begin to deescalate and ultimately denuclearize the North Korea peninsula because we don't have time to waste.

BLITZER: The -- and U.S. officials are telling us, after the president said this, that he probably has a very good relationship with Kim Jong-un, that they're not aware of any contact that the president may have had. There may be some indirect contacts, emissaries if you will, between the U.S. and North Korea, but certainly nothing direct between the president and Kim Jong-un. And that's what you're hearing as well in all the briefings that you've had over these years?

GABBARD: I wish that he would.

BLITZER: I know you're also very passionate about this FISA legislation which the House of Representatives passed yesterday. You opposed it, right?

GABBARD: Yes, I did, and I supported the amendment that would not only allow section 702 to continue, because, as a veteran, I know firsthand how important it is for our intelligence personnel and community to be able to access information and communications of foreign targets to prevent terrorist attacks.

However, there are incidental communications of American citizens that are swept up through that collection and currently law enforcement is able to access those American -- innocent Americans' communications without a warrant. Our amendment that we offered yesterday fixed that. It provided that solution of striking that balance.

BLITZER: But it was defeated.

GABBARD: It, unfortunately, was. We got about a -- over 180 votes in support of.

BLITZER: You need 218.

GABBARD: But the under -- absolutely. The underlying bill that passed and now goes to the Senate, where I hope they'll address these issues, unfortunately, does not provide those reforms that maintain the protection of our security, but also protect the civil liberties of Americans.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, thanks so much for joining us.

GABBARD: Thank you, Wolf. Aloha.

BLITZER: Aloha to you too.

Coming up, the president speaks, the world listens. Condemnation pouring in from around the globe on the president's disparaging remarks, from Kenya to Haiti. We're live on the ground.

Also, thanks, but no thanks. President Trump cancels his upcoming trip to London and he blames former President Obama.

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[13:28:45] BLITZER: While President Trump sort of denies using very vulgar language to describe certain countries, there's still outrage here in the United States, indeed around the world.

For more, CNN's Patrick Oppmann is joining us from San Salvador, in El Salvador, Farai Sevenzo is in Nairobi, Kenya, and the journalist, Bruneli Joseph (ph), is joining us from Port-au-Prince in Haiti.

Farai, first of all, what's the reaction in your region?

FARAI SEVENZO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the reaction has been swift and scathing. The Batswana government, for example, say that they found the American president's actions as being irresponsible, reprehensible and racist.

We've had reaction as well from the Somalis, who thought that this was fake news, that if it were true that he said these things about their country, then they do not deserve any response whatsoever.

People, of course, have been talking on social media and saying -- really weighing into this argument and saying, look, Africa is not what the president says it is, and are posting pictures of beautiful scenes from the cape to Cairo. They say, here I am today on a Friday in my -- then the word that the president is supposed to have used. It has been a complete -- a completely united front, including for the

African Union (ph), and indeed people are wondering why there is such a disconnect between American diplomats on the ground and the actions coming from the president's office.