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Government Shutdown and Nationwide Protests Mark Trump's First Inauguration Anniversary; Interview with Representative Luis Gutierrez; Aired 2-3p ET

Aired January 20, 2018 - 14:00   ET


[14:00:11] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN special live of two major events unfolding at this hour.

First up hundreds of thousands of marchers on the move across the nation in large part protesting the Trump presidency while the government, here in Washington, D.C., is at a standstill. Shutdown for nearly -- the first time in nearly five years and all of it falling on the first year anniversary of the president's inauguration. Remember that was a year ago today.

What is more, more than 14 hours into this impasse, the only thing that Democrats and Republicans seem to be doing together? Lashing out and digging in.


REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Senate Democrats shut down the government over a bill that they have no issues with. They opposed a bill they don't even oppose.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), MINORITY LEADER: Negotiating with this White House is like negotiating with Jell-O. It is next to impossible.


BALDWIN: All right. So let me start with what has been arguably the most interesting last couple of hours here. We've got chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta standing by at the White House, now in the briefing room, because, surprise, there is a briefing coming up and the president just tweeted.


BALDWIN: Tell me everything you know.

ACOSTA: That is right. You might see some of our technical colleagues from this network, other networks moving around the briefing room rather frantically and that is because the last several minutes the White House has just called an on-camera briefing here. That is going to be with the Legislative Affairs director, Marc Short, and Mick Mulvaney, the director of Office of Management and Budget, the president's budget director. And so this is going to be an interesting experience because this may happen fairly quickly.

But essentially what the White House is trying to do is get ahead of the message here. Obviously this is the president's one-year anniversary being sworn into office and he's celebrating that with a government shutdown. This is not how he planned on spending the weekend. He had planned on being down at Mar-a-Lago and celebrating this one year anniversary down there with his friends and big donors. Instead he's here dealing with this crisis. He's been on the phone with the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, he's been on the phone call with the House Speaker Paul Ryan.

But at this point those phone calls aren't really going anywhere because the Democrats on the other side essentially at this point are not really seeing eye-to-eye with their Republican colleagues. This is a stalemate at this point and yet both sides are trading hashtags, TrumpShutdown versus SchumerShutdown, more than they are alternatives or viable options for getting out of this mess.

And so all the taxpayers can do is either wait at home and watch this unfold on TV, which we hope they do, or spend their time doing something perhaps a bit more productive, but the president has responded to this Women's March that is happening today. He put out a tweet just in the last several minutes responding. Obviously this is a fairly anti-Trump women's march or series of women's marches that are happening all over the country.

And he put it up just a little while ago, we can put it up on the screen. It says, "Beautiful weather all over our great country, a perfect day for all women to march, get out there now to celebrate the historic milestones and unprecedented economic success and wealth creation that has taken place over the last 12 months. Lowest female unemployment in 18 years."

I will be honest with you, I have not had a chance to fact-check all those numbers so we should probably do that. But it's an indication of the president as sort of looking past the fact that a lot of these women are marching against him today, not really celebrating the one- year anniversary of his inauguration, but at the same time we should also point out with the shutdown going on, there are concerns inside this White House that the president is going to be blamed for this.

We talked to a source close to the White House earlier this morning who said that while the president believes the Democrats are to blame for this shutdown, that they caused this shutdown, that he is concerned that he is going to be blamed ultimately for all of this and all he has to do is to look back at his past comments and tweets over the years when President Obama was going through a shutdown in 2013. Time and again, just like others, there is a sound bite for every occasion with the president, there's also a tweet for every occasion with the president. There are sound bites and tweets obviously from that time period that blamed President Obama for that crisis.

And so here's President Trump having to deal with it himself. The shoe is on the other foot. We're going to find out here shortly how this White House plans to deal with this because right now I will tell you just from talking to folks on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, there appears to be no way out of the situation right now.

BALDWIN: We will check and see where things are for now. Jim Acosta, thank you so much. We'll stand by for that briefing.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BALDWIN: Momentarily let's hop down the road to Capitol Hill. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty was up and working until the wee hours. She is back at it again this morning.

Where -- what's going on? I was about to ask where the negotiations stand, but I don't even know if they're negotiating.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. There is certainly a lot of meetings, a lot of people shuttling back and forth up here on Capitol Hill, Brooke.

[14:05:03] But the important point is exactly what Jim just said. There is no clear way out as of now. The mood is not good, lawmakers openly frustrated. One lawmaker describing it as chaos up here last night and that's kind of spreading into today as well. You have both sides continuing to be really entrenched, dug in in their sides.

Republicans and the White House, they're basically saying today no talks over DACA until the government reopens. Democrats and the other side saying we want clear assurances, clear promise from the White House, from Republicans over DACA, and really that's the stalemate right there.

There is a plan, a proposal on the table for a spending bill that lasts about three weeks until February 8th that Republicans kind of rallying behind that. We've heard Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell come out and endorse that last night. Kevin McCarthy this morning saying it's the only sensible alternative and he thinks that his members would accept that deal. But Senate Democrats rejected that last night and here we are in some sort of ominous language coming from Dick Durbin this morning. He said look, the longer this goes, the worse this gets, and I think that's sentiment shared by so many up here especially when you have no end in sight and no way out as of now.

BALDWIN: Sunlen, thank you so much for state of play there on Capitol Hill.

I have a panel with me here in Washington on this Saturday afternoon. So let's start, April Ryan. Good to see you.


BALDWIN: With the president's tweet there, where he is talking about all of the women across the country marching, but you know, it's one of those -- tell me this. Is it one of the situations where the women marching are saying this is an apple and the president saying, no, no, it's a banana, when we all know it's an apple? Are you following me?

RYAN: Yes. He may be saying it's an orange, too, because he likes orange. But either way.

BALDWIN: What do you make of that?

RYAN: I really find that tweet very interesting. A year ago, I guess tomorrow you would say, Sean Spicer came to the podium and screamed in that ill-fitting suit about the numbers with the march so today on the president's anniversary he is trying to be above the fray and talking about, yes, you have the right to march. And we know this president is someone who does not like when someone opposes him, challenges him, or what have you, along that line.

But for him to say, OK, but I'm going to let you know you can march, but this is what I've done, on my anniversary, this is what I have done. This is a great day, but this is what I've done. The economy is great. You know --

BALDWIN: And he's not wrong. Where the economy is and where the female unemployment is not wrong.

RYAN: Yes. The devil is in the details, though, because the White House -- I mean, you know, they are also talking about, you know, black unemployment, and if you look at the black unemployment it might be the lowest it's been in a long time, it's still higher than any other community in this nation. So if you really look at things -- when the president talks about the economy, this is going to affect the economy.

If this keeps going on, if they keep trying to kick the can down the road without coming up with the real substantive ideas or concrete ways to come up with compromise and fix this, it's going to hurt the economy.

BALDWIN: I want to come back to the fix in just a second, but Stephen Moore, of course, I'm thinking of you. You know, former adviser on the economy, but knowing what's going on, the sense from these women, and also men, we should point out, across the country marching and the reasons for that versus what the president put out in a tweet. How do you square it?

STEPHEN MOORE, CNN SENIOR ECONOMICS ANALYST: Well, you know, with respect to this government shutdown, I mean, why? Why are we doing this? And we've got this booming economy. I mean, the whole story is what's happening in the private sector in this country where you've got Apple, Wal-Mart, and Chrysler and plants being built all over the world.

RYAN: Not Wal-Mart. Not Wal-Mart.

MOORE: And Wal-Mart, you know, is paying their -- you know, their employees --

RYAN: But they cut the Sam's workers.

MOORE: Yes. But their workers got a big pay raise. I mean, look, that's the story.

RYAN: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wal-Mart gave a million --

MOORE: Wal-Mart employs hundreds of thousands of workers.

RYAN: Wal-Mart gave a million employees a pay raise and bonus, and it cut the other side, Sam's Club. A lot of people on January 11th.

MOORE: Right.

RYAN: Lost jobs without any information and that's the day that the White House was shouting, we're giving this great bonus because --

MOORE: Hold on. So far in three weeks of this tax cut, two million workers have gotten pay raises. Two million workers.


MOORE: That's a free-- and I think we're going to see more.

RYAN: See, that's lots of oranges.

MOORE: My only point is, look, just get the government out of the way. Let the private sector rebuild this economy. I think it's a terrible time to shut down the government. I think, and frankly, I think Democrats have taken two horrible votes of the last month. Every single Democrat in the House and Senate voted against the tax cuts that's growing this economy and creating jobs.

RYAN: Wal-Mart --


MOORE: Wal-Mart is against the rate. They're paying -- they've increased their --


RYAN: But they fired the other side of the Walton family corporation.




RYAN: What do you mean wow?

BALDWIN: Hang on.

MOORE: That story of Wal-Mart is -- I thought you were saying you wanted increases of wages for workers. That's what Wal-Mart is doing.

RYAN: This is what I'm reporting.

MOORE: This is wonderful thing.

RYAN: Nothing you say, Wal-Mart is a great story when they give people -- increase in wages and then they cut a large portion of their workforce.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. This is a microcosm of what's happening as I said in Washington, D.C. at, you know, CNN. I can only imagine what's happening down the road.

Let me attempt to segue -- let me attempt this. From the Wal-Mart that the wall.

Eliana, to you. Just on --

RYAN: Very good.

[14:10:06] BALDWIN: Just on the fact that we have now learned so that the Oval Office visit, right, between the Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer yesterday and the president of the United States, and the fact that we now know that maybe much of the Democrats didn't really love this idea of putting -- Chuck Schumer putting this notion of, all right, Mr. President, we'll build your border wall in exchange for protecting our Dreamers.

And apparently, the reporting we have, the president was amenable, and then some hours later obviously that was no dice on that. But still, the fact that the wall was on the table from the Democrats, what do you make of that?

ELIANA JOHNSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think that Democrats liked the idea of making concessions on immigration just as much as the Republicans like it. Both parties essentially I think were terrified of what was going to happen in that room. In reality, I don't think the two came as close to a deal as --

BALDWIN: You don't?

JOHNSON: No, I don't, as was stipulated. The White House is casting it as the two of them really discussed a series of issues, but I think the reality is, whatever conversation the president and Chuck Schumer had, the truth is that the only way we're getting out of this shutdown is when Mitch McConnell on the one hand and Chuck Schumer on the other hand come to an agreement.

The president, yes, will have to sign something, but it's really Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer who are going to have to agree on something.

BALDWIN: And Chuck Schumer is negotiating -- I hear your point on Mitch McConnell, Bill Press, but you're saying, you know, like talking to the president is like talking to Jell-O and the fact that you move one direction -- one way with the president and thanks to some hardlined, you know, conservatives, you're moving three steps back, and how do you come together given what the Democrats are saying?

BILL PRESS, HOST, "THE BILL PRESS SHOW": First of all, I've just got to say, I think this -- the Trump shutdown if I could use that word.

BALDWIN: Or Schumer shutdown, depending on who you're talking to.

PRESS: I say Trump shutdown talking to me.

BALDWIN: Of course.

PRESS: Is emblematic of this whole first year of the Trump administration. I mean, it is total chaos. It is total -- a lot of hot rhetoric and getting nothing done led by the guy who doesn't know what the hell he's doing in the first place. So that's where we are today. But I would disagree and push back on that. I think the leadership has to come from the White House and I want to quote Donald Trump himself.


PRESS: In 2013 he told our friend Greta Van Susteren, quote -- what would you do if you're president. Quote, "You have to get everybody in the room. You have to be a leader. The president has to lead. He has to get Mr. Boehner and everybody else in the room and they have to make a deal." That's what Donald Trump ought to be doing.

BALDWIN: This is during the shutdown in 2013.

PRESS: Instead of sending Mick Mulvaney out there, you know what he's going to say. He's going to call them losers again. He's going to blame it on the Democrats.

BALDWIN: Objectionist losers.

PRESS: This is a time for the president to step up, take a leadership, to be the dealer that he says he is, get them in a room, and say, let's get this done. He won't do.

MOORE: What I don't get, Brooke, is, OK. Fine. I think we all want a deal on immigration.


MOORE: I do, I'm very pro-immigration, but why do we have to shut down the government for that? I mean, why couldn't the --

PRESS: Ask Mitch McConnell. They don't have to.

MOORE: They had -- virtually all the Republicans voting to keep the government open. It was Schumer and the Democrats who wouldn't allows us to get to 60 votes. They didn't have to -- they didn't have to filibuster this bill. I mean, look, there's not 60 Republicans here.

BALDWIN: Here's the but. I was talking to Senator Bill Cassidy yesterday, Republican of Louisiana. He was saying to me, Brooke, it's about CHIP, it was about the 9 million children and yes, we're all on page with regard to immigration policy, and yes, the majority of the country cares about the Dreamers. But Brooke, this is about CHIP, this is about CHIP, and 9 million kids. And you could say back to Bill Cassidy or the Republicans, well, you know, the Democrats would say, well, CHIP has become this bargaining chip. You guys let it expire under your watch. And now all of it --

MOORE: But CHIP is in the bill.

BALDWIN: But now --

MOORE: The CHIP is in the bill.

BALDWIN: But that's my point.

MOORE: Right.

BALDWIN: All of a sudden --


MOORE: So why are we shutting down the government --

BALDWIN: Hang on, hang on. All of a sudden, according to Democrats, they, Republicans, care about CHIP and suddenly put it in this bill to try to keep Democrats hostage.

MOORE: And they still voted against it.

RYAN: No, no, no. The devil is in the details --

MOORE: It's virtually help in it and the Democrats still voted against the bill.

RYAN: The devil is in the details on CHIP because the problem with CHIP is yes, they got six years, but they're looking for 10 to make it permanent and it saves money. But not only that, if -- and this is the reasoning from the Democrats from what I have heard and it kind of makes sense. Now if indeed you say you're to fund this low income insurance for low income kids, you do that but where are they going to go to the hospital?

They don't have funding for health care center or community health centers. These low income kids have this insurance but where do they go to the hospital? And that's one of the issues. And another issue is a supplemental for Puerto Rico or for disaster relief, and that's a big issue because a hidden variable can be very costly for this nation.

PRESS: I've got to say, this idea that you've got everything but -- so you don't have DACA, so what? Let's talk about DACA. I have not heard one Republican yet give a good reason --

BALDWIN: Well, Republicans and the White House right now don't want to talk immigration policy until the government reopens and then they'll talk about it again.

PRESS: But this is the issue again. I want to hear one good reason why continuing the Dreamers program is not a good idea. I have not heard one Republican say so. You know why? Because they don't have an argument against the Dreamers.

MOORE: Of the DACA program, the legalization program?

PRESS: I'm talking about the DACA program that was in place.

[14:15:03] MOORE: Well, there's all sorts of issues that need to be worked out.


PRESS: That was -- if I can finish.

MOORE: Are you going to be able to bring your family members? Are you going to be able to go on welfare programs?

PRESS: No. No. Steve --

MOORE: Are you going to be able to -- you know, what about people --

PRESS: You are deliberately muddying the waters.

MOORE: No, I'm not.



MOORE: A lot of issues.

PRESS: DACA is about Dreamers.

MOORE: I know but some of these people have criminal records.

RYAN: President Trump is undecided --

MOORE: Some of them have gone on welfare programs, some --

PRESS: They have to sign up for two years. They have to renew. That's the program we're talking about, which was in place for five years. It was working. Donald Trump unnecessarily summarily, cruelly yanked it out and gave it to the Congress.

BALDWIN: OK. On that point, I want to hear from -- I want to --


PRESS: That's why we're here.

BALDWIN: Let me turn my attention to the other side. I want to, Eliana, get you back in.

JOHNSON: Well, I think, you know, the way that you cast it, most Republicans would agree with it except for the fact that they disagreed about enacting DACA through an executive action. They wanted it to shift it to the Congress. And you heard John Kelly say when he spoke to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and to others, I didn't talk to a single lawyer, and that's not quite true. I think you can find some lawyers who say it's constitutional to do it through an executive action. But he said I didn't find a single lawyer who said that we can do this

constitutionally. And when you shift it back to Congress, then Republicans say, we really want to do this. Republicans and Democrats, they're essentially starting from the same points, but Republicans want concessions in exchange for enacting DACA and I think that's important to the president, too.

PRESS: Including wall security which is a big one.

JOHNSON: Right. They want money for a border wall.


MOORE: All kinds of border security.

PRESS: We need the wall. Chuck Schumer put the wall out there, and shocked me. He put the wall on the table. They are willing to give. I just want to say I agree with your points. It should be done legislatively, it could have been done in 2012 -- 2010, I'm sorry. The Republicans voted against it.

MOORE: And why wasn't it?

PRESS: And it should be done constitutionally.

MOORE: Wait a minute.

PRESS: And I think that's the best way to go.

MOORE: In 2010 --hold on, in 2010 --

PRESS: And set it up.

MOORE: Hold on. 2010, the Democrats controlled not 60 votes in the Senate. They had control of the House and they control the presidency. The Democrats, why they do this? Why they're --


BALDWIN: And on that, and on that, gentlemen, we hit pause on the conservation. We've got to get a quick break in here.

Special live coverage here on this shutdown Saturday as we've just learned recently there will be a White House briefing taking place any moment now. We're going to hear from Marc Short and Mick Mulvaney, director of OMB. Stay tuned. So much to discuss both here at CNN and all around Washington. Back in a moment.


NATALIE PORTMAN, ACTRESS: -- our pleasure. Let me tell you about my own experience. I turned 12 on the set of my first film "The Professional" in which I played a young girl who befriends a hit man and hopes to avenge the murder of her family.

The character is simultaneously discovering and developing her womanhood, her voice and her desire. At that moment in my life, I too, was discovering my own womanhood, my own desire and my own voice. I was so excited at 13 when the film was released and my work and my art would have a human response. I excitedly opened my first fan mail to read a rape fantasy that had maddened me.

[14:20:04] A countdown was started on my local radio show to my 18th birthday, euphemistically the date that I would be legal to sleep with. Movie reviewers talking about --

MARC SHORT, WHITE HOUSE LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS DIRECTOR: We also received updates from Secretary Nielsen about the impacts of payments of salary not going to our border agents. He also spoke with Secretary Mattis, and gave him an update of that 90,000 National Guardsmen and 20,000 the Army Reservists who have had their training canceled because of the government shutdown. Additionally -- additional costs that they've had to incur including they have to pick up their own pay and travel costs.

We stand here ready to sign the bill that the House passed last night. Anxious to keep the government open or I should say to reopen the government. The White House position, though, remains the same that we will not negotiate the status of 690,000 unlawful immigrants while hundreds of millions of tax-paying Americans, including hundreds of thousands of our troops in uniform and border agents protecting our country are held hostage by Senate Democrats.

We continue to remain anxious to reach a deal on DACA and we look forward to resuming those negotiations as soon as the Senate Democrats reopen the government. The reality, though, that is difficult for I think many Americans to understand is if you put forward a bill that continues funding the government, reauthorizes health insurance for 9 million children, provides a relief of taxes that Democrats and Republicans are on a bipartisan basis, the rationale for shutting down the government over a bill that Republicans and Democrats agree with on the basis of saying we will not -- we will not negotiate, we will not reach a resolution to open the government until there is a solution on the tangential issue that remains plenty of time to be solved, I think a lot of Americans have a hard time understanding how you make the argument for why we're not going to pay our men and women in uniform, our agents serving on the border in order to try to resolve an issue that we also want to resolve related to unlawful residents.

We look forward I think that the Senate majority leader is going to offer, as you know, has already offered an -- a continuing resolution that goes to three weeks instead of the original four weeks. We look forward to that vote. We hope that Senate Democrats will yield and accept that their position is unreasonable, and reopen the government to make sure that our men and women in uniform continue to get paid.

Director of OMB, Mick Mulvaney is here to address the status of the update and how it's impacting government agencies and then we'll take a few questions.

MICK MULVANEY, WHITE HOUSE BUDGET DIRECTOR: Good morning -- good afternoon. A couple of different things. Walk through some of the -- how a lapse in appropriations, a shutdown works. Keep in mind the technical term, the legal term is actually a lapse in appropriations so when you saw the notices go out today, they reference a lapse. That is the formal name for the shutdown.

This morning -- early this morning, federal workers got notices from their various agencies as to whether they were exempt or furloughed employees. They sort of fell into three categories. Either you are exempt and you were to come to work either today or Monday depending on your ordinary work schedule. You were absolutely furloughed in which case you are not to come to work beginning today and going over into Monday. Or there's actually another group of people that would show up for a few hours on Monday or today up to four hours in order to close down shop or prepare for the lapse. So those notices went out today.

I mentioned yesterday that this shutdown, this lapse would look different than it did in 2013. We're already seeing evidence of that. I want to walk you folks through a couple of ways it's already different. In 2013, most of the EPA shutdown immediately during the lapse. EPA this year consistent with OMB guidance and the director for the president is using its unobligated balances, what we call those carry forward funds most of the agencies will remain open unlike several years ago.

Mine safety inspections, the number of inspectors that will be on the job for the mine safety inspections will increase for 25 percent of the total from 2013 to 50 percent, here again part of the administration's intentional plan to use unobligated funds that are already at the agency, something the previous administration did not emphasize.

Cybersecurity, agencies will ensure that staff working on the maintenance and safeguarding of IT systems will continue to work during the lapse and that systems will continue to get their critical updates.

[14:25:05] National parks. You may have already noticed that the parks, national monuments, private concessions -- private concessions that serve them are open. As I mentioned yesterday, won't be picking up the trash or cleaning the bathrooms.

Number five, trade negotiations. During the last shutdown, I think the Obama administration cancelled a few very high-level trade negotiations. By contrast, this year, the USTR will use its funding flexibilities. We talked, again, about the ability to use carry forward funds, the ability to use transfer of funds from one account to another in order to continue round six of the NAFTA negotiations later this week.

Finally, the last example I have is that the Merchant Marine Academy was closed during the 2013 shutdown. It will stay open.

There's another important example that doesn't compare apples to apples to 2013, but it is, sort of, evidence of how we're managing this differently than the Democrats did during the 2013 shutdown. After working closely with the White House, with OMB, to review the exceptions allowed in the law for agencies to continue to operate if their work is necessary to protect life and safety, the CDC has announced this morning they will continue immediate response work and surveillance to protect Americans from seasonal influenza.

So we'll have continued updates on that either later today or tomorrow as to how the shutdown, how the lapse, if it continues, is managed.

With that, I think we'll take a couple of questions. Gentleman in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, sir. I'm wondering how concerned you are that -- if we look at social media, Twitter, hashtags trending, that "Trump shutdown" seems to be far surpassing "Democrat shutdown" or "GOP shutdown." How concerned are you that the onus of this by the public seems to be on the president?

MULVANEY: My favorite is still the "Schumer shutdown." So it's got that nice little ring to it, doesn't it? So, yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Speaking of Senator Schumer, he says he left the meeting yesterday with the president thinking he had arrived at the broad outlines of a deal and that something happened that the president changed his mind. Senator Schumer says that he relented under pressure from the far right.

What's your account of that meeting? I know you weren't in the room, but what's the White House account of the meeting?

MULVANEY: Yes, I was in that meeting. But I did talk to the chief about it this morning, and I'll give you an example of how Mr. Schumer is mischaracterizing the discussions. One of the things that the -- according to the chief, that Mr. Schumer told the president was that, I will give you all of the money that you want for your wall. And the president said, oh, that's great, I need $20 billion to build the whole wall. And Mr. Schumer said, oh, no, no, only $1.6. That's all you asked for last year in the 2018 budget, which I happened to write. OK.

We had a $1.6 billion request in the 2018 budget that we'd like to see in the 2018 appropriations bill. OK. That is not all of the money for the wall, nor was it ever intended to be all the money for the wall. But Chuck Schumer actually had the gall to look at the president and said, I'm giving you everything you asked for the wall, and then when pressed, admitted that he wasn't doing it.

That's the type of negotiation that Mr. Schumer has been engaged with the president. And you have to ask yourself, at what point does it even become profitable to continue to work with somebody like that? So Mr. Schumer is going to have to up his game a little bit and be a little bit more honest with the president of the United States if we're going to see progress on that front.

Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One question for you, but two quick ones before that. How long will this shutdown last? MULVANEY: You have to ask Congress. Again, the Democrats in the

Senate could end this shutdown today.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What are you planning for? Days? Weeks?

MULVANEY: No, we plan mostly a day at a time. If you, sort of, look, there's different sort of things on the horizon. For example, we have a pay period on Friday that would be one, sort of, goalpost. But we'll manage this day by day. The funds that I've mentioned, some agencies are sitting on quite a bit of carry-forward funds. They could go out longer without being impacted; and some have none, so they'd be impacted immediately. So there's no real individual answer to that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And I want to ask about the short-term. But before, is the president still going to go to Davos if Monday morning the government is shut down?

MULVANEY: Yes, my understanding is that the president -- we've talked about this beforehand. The president will not be going to Florida now. And we're taking Davos, both from the president's perspective and the Cabinet perspective, on a day-by-day basis.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK. And then for the short-term CR, obviously Democrats want to do -- you're not going to talk about immigration right now. You'll talk about it after you get through this government shutdown. There's been talk among Democrats of trust issues. There's been talk from the president about trust issues. So if Democrats do agree on this short-term CR and they'll address immigration later, why should Democrats think they should trust this president on that?

SHORT: Hallie, I would say again that -- step back for a second to where we were in asking Congress to address this when General Kelly first became the DHS secretary, providing to Congress what we asked for in October as far as principles, and then refining that again. And I know that there's been some questions, saying that there's -- I think Senator Schumer today said there's lack of clarity as to what the White House is asking for.

I don't think there's lack of clarity. Here's the principles we set up in September. Seven pages sent up to Congress to say here are the things we're asking for in the four broad categories.

[14:30:04] Over the course of the negotiations and conversations, there was a sense that it needs to be refined. So what we sent back several weeks ago was a three-page document that pulled off some of the items that we were asking for off the table, particularly on interior enforcement. And then there were meetings here at the White House, bipartisan in nature, with leadership, Republicans and Democrats, that many of you covered and was shown to the national audience.

In that conversation at the end, there was agreement that there would be four principals leading the negotiations. Kevin McCarthy, Senator Durbin, Senator Cornyn, and Steny Hoyer. That is the process that we have put in place and it continues to focus on those four principles. What I would simply add to Director Mulvaney's comments is that I

would look at it is as progress that, in fact, Democrats are now willing to accept funding for border security and physical barriers. That is a step forward as well. There's some areas where we have given some ground, which is, they want a broader definition of that DACA population.

To me, that is progress. All the more reason to, if we're making progress, why are we shutting down the government? Why are we shutting it down? We were making progress. We're anxious to resume those conversations, but we're not going to be held hostage and let our troops be held hostage over this. When they reopen the government, we will continue the discussions.

ACOSTA: And Marc, can I ask you a question about (INAUDIBLE). This is the one-year anniversary of the president being sworn into office. How does this White House feel to have a shutdown one year after the president was sworn in?

SHORT: Well, Jim, I think it's disappointing that Congress has chosen to shut down the government, and particularly Senate Democrats have, at the one-year anniversary. But --

ACOSTA: Is it a reflection at all of the leadership coming out of the White House?

SHORT: I think it's a reflection, candidly, of the position that many in the Democrat Party find themselves in. For this reason, I think that there are many Democrat actors who look at all the administration has accomplished over the year, and they've pushed their leadership to say, we want something to shut down the government. Meaning, they look back and say, the largest tax cut in history.

They say, you repealed the individual mandate. They look at the regulatory rollback. They look at what's happened with $7 trillion added to the stock markets. They see more circuit court judges ever confirmed in one year. They see a new Supreme Court justice confirmed. Those are things that we look as tremendous progress, but I know that they're captive by a small base in their party and they're saying, we demand a shutdown.

So I do think they're related. They look at the accomplishments of the last year and all this administration has accomplished, and their reaction is, because we can't beat them, what we're going to do is we're going to shut down the government.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Director Mulvaney, just for the benefit of the public, can you go over -- and I have another substantive question on the politics -- but on entitlement payments, Social Security, Medicare, can you, just for the public, let them know what --

MULVANEY: Yes, we'll just reaffirm the conversation we had yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Regardless of how long this lasts, what happens and what are the implications there?

MULVANEY: Yes, the technical answer is that if the source of funds is non-appropriated, mandatory would be the largest component of that, then the funds will continue to flow. The practical application of that general rule is that Social Security checks will go out.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And any other entitlements covered by that is that a guarantee as well?

MULVANEY: Again, if it's not appropriated, generally speaking, the answer is, yes.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So, Marc and Mick, for both of you, you either worked for or you were a member of Congress at times when you thought it was a matter of principle, when you had political leverage, to withhold votes on behalf of a principle you thought was important.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ideologically. Do you have any sympathy for Democrats who believe they are doing that now, under these circumstances, because they believe, as a matter principle, and it might be politics, but, Marc, you know this, and, Mick, you know this, back when you were doing that, you were accused of being the small base responding to activist pressure to do something that was viewed by the --


MULVANEY: Then I suppose --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- administration as wrong.

MULVANEY: I might have a lot more sympathy if I hadn't been accused at that time of being an arsonist. But keep in mind, this is different in that in 2013 we were being asked to vote something that -- vote for something that we did not like. The funding bill that was put before us in 2013 included funding for Obamacare. We objected to that and for that reason refused to vote for that funding bill.

We have a funding bill today sitting in the Senate that senators do not oppose. They support all individual pieces of it. We've talked about CHIP, we've talked about the delay in the Cadillac tax, the medical device tax. talked about the fact that they're generally OK with CRs. That's one of the primary differences there. We were asked to vote for something in 2013 that we did not approve of.

That is not the circumstance here. Here, they are simply taking advantage of the situation to insert not only a new topic, but -- Marc may have mentioned this earlier, they've now introduced even another topic. I think you heard Mr. Schumer talk about it just earlier today. Now they want to talk about bailing out union pension funds. That's a new $60 billion topic that has been interjected to the conversation today. So clearly things are out of control on the Senate side.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You mentioned this earlier. Do you really believe Democrats are not negotiating in good faith and therefore this can't be resolved?

MULVANEY: You can't -- I don't think it's ever fair to get into somebody else's mental state. I don't know what happens in your mind, you don't know what's happening in my mind.

[14:35:05] So I don't want to speak to someone else's good faith. I'm just saying it's extraordinarily difficult to negotiate with people who won't vote for something they like in order to raise a non- financial, non-fiscal issue as a part of a spending bill.

We got time for one more. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In 2013, Mr. Trump was critical of President Obama's handling of the shutdown. He said, "You have to get everybody in a room. You have to be a leader. The president has to lead." Why isn't he following his own advice?

SHORT: I guess I would say that is what he is doing. If you look back to last week in the meeting that he had to discuss DACA, which seems to be the one issue they have complaints about, he brought together 20 different members from both the House and the Senate in bipartisan fashion. He's continued to remain on the phone. He helped to encourage the bill that got passed in the House on Thursday. It was his influence to help make sure it passed just to keep the government open.

And following up on Major's question, just to, I think, reinforce what Mick said, I think that what's hard for us to understand in other times when there've been, I think, an argument over principle, there is nothing in this bill Democrats say they object to. Yet it's like a 2-year-old temper tantrum to say, I'm going to take my toys and go home because I'm upset about something else.

It has nothing to do with this bill. And Senate Democrats are basically conducting a 2-year-old temper tantrum in front of all of the American people. Matt.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Marc, what's the shortest CR the White House would be willing to accept? You said that there would be a three-week CR offered in the Senate. Some Democrats have said they'd vote for something that days long. What's the minimum this White House would take?

SHORT: Matt, I'm not going to negotiate that in the national press or what we would or wouldn't take, hypothetically. I think the reality is that there is a bill that passed the House that the president said he would sign to give us four weeks to continue the DACA negotiations. We have now agreed to reduce that to three weeks. We think that that is a concession on our part. Leader McConnell has offered that. I hope that Democrats come to their senses and support that, and keep the government open.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One question. I know, yesterday, members of the administration were saying that they felt pretty confident that we'd be able to avoid a shutdown by, hopefully, end of today. You all have been up on Capitol Hill today meeting with lawmakers. Based on those conversations, where are you at now?

SHORT: Well, I was confident that we'd avoid a shutdown because again everything in this bill are programs that I think Democrats have advocated for. So I was wrong. I'm not going to get back into the job of handicapping what I think the chances are today. As I said, I'm just hopeful that Democrats recognize the harm they're doing to our Border Patrol agents, the harm they're doing to our troops serving overseas, and the reality and inconveniences they're placing on millions and millions of Americans. It's time to get the government open again.

MULVANEY: Keep in mind, when we handicap a bill, one of the things we try -- you know, the likelihood of passage is, can we get a bill together that people can and will support because what's in the bill is acceptable to them. And that's one of the reasons, I think, Marc and I shared the opinion that this was going to pass. Again, because it was acceptable to the Democrats.

Once folks of either party started inserting completely new and unrelated topics into a negotiation, then it's impossible to predict.

Thank you all very much. We'll do this again tomorrow.

SHORT: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: All right. So we just got a little brief glimpse into what the White House is thinking here on this first full day of the shutdown here in Washington. And clearly I think the word I heard was anxious. Right there. Anxious to get the government back up and running and then that's when they're willing to talk immigration policy. Of course the White House and the Republicans are blaming Democrats. The Democrats are blaming the Republicans and away we go.

I've got my panel here with me, and let's begin, guys, just on the wall which is what we were talking about earlier, and the crux of it sounds like the Schumer-Trump meeting at the Oval Office yesterday was the motion that the Senate minority leader would offer up, it sounds like, you know, initially, people were thinking, all right, he was putting the wall out there, the Democrats putting the wall on the table in negotiations if the president and if Republicans would give them protection for the Dreamers.

Now, I'm looking at you, just because, you know, you keep track of all things economically and pennies, nickels and dimes, that the Democrats were only offering a fraction of the wall and that then would have been the problem for the president.

MOORE: One of the big problems, yes. I think that the president has made it very clear, I mean, from the very first day he started running for president that building the wall was something, you know, critically important to him, but it is not --

RYAN: And Mexico was going to pay for it.



BALDWIN: Which he still says they are.

MOORE: We'll see about that. But --

RYAN: The president said it.

MOORE: But I think the broader point is, you know, I have said this before, I'll say it again. The immigration policy is about the most important policy for the future of our country. Who are we going to allow as a citizen, who are we going to admit into this country, what benefits are they going to be eligible for.

I'm not so sure even if they do a three-week extension that they're going to be able to settle these differences. I mean, look, I hope they do. I would love to see an agreement that legalizes some of these folks that provides a more skill-based systems so we get the immigrants that we need and that settles this once and for all. We've been debating it for 15 years. My point is I'm not sure in three weeks we're going to get this done.

BALDWIN: I got to --

[14:40:04] RYAN: Did you just hear this? The immigrants that we need. And that --


MOORE: Well, I'm talking about the technology and the people with skills and talents.

RYAN: Again there you go. That's the point. Because I just listened while that briefing was going on to my interview with Steny Hoyer on MLK Day, and he said it started out talking about a bill of love on January 11th to something around that time.

BALDWIN: Right. It was the president.

RYAN: Yes, the president. And then it totally shifted. He couldn't sustain. It totally shifted. They were saying it's not worked out in good faith. He's demonizing immigrants. The immigrants in the community. He did it on the campaign trail but then he started talking about a bill of love and then it changed towards the end.

And for you to say -- and again, for this administration and your part of or formerly part of the administrations to say that it is immigrants that we want, I mean, what do you mean?

MOORE: The immigrants who will benefit America, the ones with the highest skills, the talents, the people who have technology, the scientific skills, we need those workers desperately.


RYAN: So when you say a --

MOORE: And agricultural workers. We need service workers.

RYAN: OK. OK. So when you say a merit-based system that is what you are talking about.


RYAN: Do you realize stats show from the Center for American Progress that black immigrants are highly educated more --

MOORE: Good. Good. I am for that.

RYAN: And than any other immigrant group.

MOORE: Great. Fantastic.

RYAN: And also when it comes to issues of jobs.


RYAN: They attain jobs. So when you're talking about merit, that means the president is wrong, if what they said is true, that Norway versus Haiti, El Salvador and --

JOHNSON: I don't think --

MOORE: OK. I will accept your point.

JOHNSON: I don't really think --

MOORE: We want the ones who speak English, who are talented, who are well educated, who can come in and start businesses.

RYAN: This is about the potential. You couldn't -- you didn't have the potential in the other country. It's about the potential of what America can help you do and you can help America do.


BALDWIN: And I think that a majority of America agrees.


BALDWIN: Go ahead, Eliana.

JOHNSON: About what the president was insinuating is offensive, that merit -- that you can conflate merit with country of origin. That was an offensive insinuation but --

RYAN: Very much so. JOHNSON: -- to say that we shouldn't be able to have an argument or

that the argument about a merit-based system versus the family or chain migration is that having that argument is offensive, I don't think --

RYAN: It was called racist.


JOHNSON: Right. I don't think there's any argument about that. But you're really not allowing the argument to proceed beyond that.

RYAN: How do you work in good faith when that is lingering overhead? And that's what a lot of the 24 members --

JOHNSON: So you're essentially saying that we can't have an argument about immigration because of offensive --


RYAN: I'm not saying anything. I'm telling you what Steny Hoyer said. I'm not -- I'm telling you (INAUDIBLE) Steny Hoyer and other members that I have talked to, Democrat and Republican --

JOHNSON: And so the Democratic position is that we can't have an argument about immigration because the president made an offensive remark. And I think --

RYAN: It was racist remark according to some.

JOHNSON: Then I think we're not going to get anywhere.

RYAN: There you go.

JOHNSON: That's right. I think that's troublesome.

RYAN: It is.

PRESS: I want to come back to where we are right now. Right? And immigration is a very important issue. It's a very complicated issue. No doubt about it. One thing that's not complicated are the Dreamers program. I'm sorry I keep coming back to that. These are --

MOORE: We don't --

PRESS: Let me finish, please. These are kids we know who came here as kids, brought by their parents, most of them are too young to commit a crime. We in this country do not hold our children responsible for the sins of their parents.

I have been told by Republicans if Paul Ryan put this bill, a clean bill, on the House floor, it would pass overwhelmingly, Republicans and Democrats. It is unconscionable. I think it is immoral not to do it. And why wait? It is like to -- Steve, it's like Lucy on the football. They were supposed to do this in September, in October, then in December, and they said, nope, we won't do it now, but we'll do it right after the first of the year.


MOORE: Should they have a path to citizenship? Maybe legalization but the people who came in illegally don't have a problem with citizenship?


BALDWIN: Stephen's point is no way that it can get fixed in three weeks. Your point is just -- because to Bill's point, I think most Americans, I totally agree, Republicans and Democrats, they should be protected based -- they brought when they were young.

MOORE: Brooke, a lot of these people are not children anymore. A lot of these people are in the country for 20 years.

BALDWIN: Absolutely.


MOORE: What about if they have a criminal record?

PRESS: They're paying taxes.


MOORE: You want to legalize people that have criminal record?

PRESS: You don't know the program. You don't know the program.

BALDWIN: No, I don't think anyone is suggesting --

PRESS: You don't know the program. They are not allowed.

MOORE: OK, good.


BALDWIN: No one wants, Stephen.

MOORE: What about people on welfare?

PRESS: Let me tell you they are not --

RYAN: Stephen, that's offensive.

PRESS: That is offensive.

MOORE: What about people on welfare?

PRESS: They are not -- people with any criminal --

MOORE: People on welfare should not be able to --

PRESS: People with any criminal record are not allowed in the program.


RYAN: There's more white Americans on welfare than you have any other group on welfare.



RYAN: Yes, you do. More white Americans are on welfare that you have any other group.

MOORE: No --

RYAN: Your argument have holes in them.

MOORE: I'm not for immigration of immigrants --


RYAN: I am so sorry, and they are very baseless. Biased. I can't.

MOORE: Immigrants should not be able to come into the country and go on food stamps. That's ridiculous. Immigrants should not be able to come in our country and go on --


MOORE That's just the whole history of our country.

RYAN: All right. I'm done. OK.


MOORE: You first started letting immigrants in, you could not come into our country if you became a public charge. We want people who are going to be productive in our country and not the one --

RYAN: Can I ask you something Where is your country? Where are you descended from? Because you were not born in this country. You're not a Native American from what I can see.

MOORE: I wasn't. I'm Irish.

RYAN: I'm Irish, too.


RYAN: All right. There you go.

BALDWIN: OK. Let me pivot the conversation and Kate Bennett, patiently waiting on this.

[14:45:03] KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: One immigrant we haven't talked -- we can transition now, right? BALDWIN: Go ahead.

BENNETT: It is the first lady.

BALDWIN: I wanted to ask you about these goings on at Mar-a-Lago because we know the president was supposed to head down there. People are paying $100,000, $250,000 a pop for these tickets to this fundraiser and this celebration, you know, the president hoping to be celebrating today because this is the one year anniversary of his inauguration. He's not going, and appropriately, you know, not going down to Mar-a-Lago because of everything happening here in Washington. So tell me what is happening down there and also where's the first lady?

BENNETT: The first lady was going to go with the president to Mar-a- Lago and she is now staying here as is the president. CNN is reporting that many people, they're taking chairs away down there at Mar-a-Lago because now people aren't attending the dinner. As many they thought would attend.

Eric Trump and Laura Trump are going to hold down the fork at the dinner and represent, and it's certainly not going to have the celebratory feel that I think it would have if the president was there and those who paid a lot of money might not --

BALDWIN: Paid a lot of money to want to see President Trump.

BENNETT: Exactly. But, you know, Mrs. Trump was going to be in Mar- a-Lago. There was chance she would attend the dinner briefly, but she wasn't planning to sit through it.

BALDWIN: But show the tweet before we go and take a quick break and talk to a member of Congress. I want you to show the tweet.


BALDWIN: From the first lady. Guys, let's show it up on the screen. The tweet from the first lady. She's also commemorating her husband's, you know, one year anniversary. And I want you to notice perhaps what or who is missing both in the photo and then in the sentiment.


BALDWIN: This is the photo. Go ahead, Kate.

BENNETT: So the sentiment was, I -- she says something along the lines about, I've had so many wonderful moments in this first year and met so many incredible people. You know, clearly this is a first lady who says a lot by not really saying anything. Right? This has been a tough week for her behind the scenes, I'm sure, with all the news and the president, and you know, I don't -- I don't see the president in this tweet, in photographs nor in the text, and not maybe --

BALDWIN: Was that a little shade from the first lady?

BENNETT: You know, she's either the ultimate troll or --


RYAN: -- grabs her hand.

BENNETT: And so, you know, you can take it at face value or you can look deeper into it.

RYAN: Hey, does she do this --

BENNETT: And that's most people do.

RYAN: Doesn't she do this when the president comes near?

BENNETT: Well, one time when he was sort of --

RYAN: One time.

BENNETT: -- blocked her out of the frame. She did swat his hand.

RYAN: She did a couple of times.

BENNETT: But -- I mean, listen, this is a year of Melania Trump and that's the one thing people really remember about this first lady and the one personality shine.

BALDWIN: All right. Thank you all for being here. We're going to take a quick break on that note.

We're going to talk to --


PRESS: We will go to Mar-a-Lago. We're going to Mar-a-Lago.

MOORE: That's the only 10,000 who were affected by the layoffs so.

RYAN: Only 10,000?


MOORE: Out of 2 million.


BALDWIN: We'll be right back with a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus to talk about. Maybe willing to build this wall in order to get these Dreamers protected. We are back in just a moment.



[14:52:22] SCARLETT JOHANSSON, ACTRESS: I want to move forward, and for me moving forward means my daughter growing up in a world where she doesn't have to be a victim of what has cruelly become the social norm, that she doesn't have to fit into the bindings of the female condition. Time's up on the female condition.


JOHANSSON: Gender equality can't just exist outside ourselves. It must exist within. We must take responsibility not just for our actions, but for ourselves. We must make it our responsibility to feed our own healthy ego, to teach our children to exercise their own autonomy and ego strength by leading by example.

I have recently introduced a new phrase in my life that I would like to share with you. No more pandering. No more feeling guilty about hurting people's feelings --


BALDWIN: All right. We just wanted to dip into a number of different speeches around the country. That was Scarlett Johansson speaking at one of these marches. That's happening everywhere, of course, as we're covering what is going on just across the street essentially from where we are here in Washington, on Capitol Hill, with this government shutdown today being the first full day. And what is the fix?

I've got a member of Congress good enough to -- on a couple of hours' sleep. Come on down and talk to me. This is Congressman Luis Gutierrez, Democrat from Illinois, Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

We've talked to -- this week even. I'm Sure it's been all a blur for you, but help me understand from your perspective as a Democrat the notion that your -- the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, went to the Oval Office yesterday, had a conversation with the president, was willing to pay for, it sounds like, a little bit of this wall, something that many in his party vehemently oppose.


BALDWIN: Would you be willing to build a wall in order to protect Dreamers?

GUTIERREZ: Sure. Look, I think it would be a monumental waste of taxpayer's money to build a monument to stupidity. But if that's what it's going to take to take 800,000 young men and women and give them a chance to live freely and openly in America, then I will roll up my sleeves. I'll go down there with bricks and mortar and begin the wall because, you know, a brick for lives, OK. Let's do it.

And let me just say that wall is offensive to me. It's insulting to me and people like me that have come to this country. But, you know --

BALDWIN: So why blink --

GUTIERREZ: People of my generation will do what we have to do because that's what we do for younger people. That's what we do. That's what we do.

[14:55:08] BALDWIN: So you would be willing to --


GUTIERREZ: I want to make it clear. Here's the thing. Do you think it will open the government? It will not open the government.

BALDWIN: You don't think that's a switch for the White House?

GUTIERREZ: It will not. Even though we fund the wall, it will not. That's what Chuck Schumer told the president of the United States. That what we have told Republicans. They know, this is no longer an issue about the wall. As repugnant as it is to us, we will finance it.

Now it's not an issue because it's not -- they say it's about building a wall to keep America safe, right, from danger and from people usurping the jobs of Americans. Then why are you going after legal categories of people coming to the United States legally, huh? They want to eliminate diversity visa. That's a legal way to come to America. They call it -- and it's very harmful to me and hurtful to me to say that my mom bringing her brother, all right, to America is chain migration. No, that is family reunification. And --

BALDWIN: Well, Republicans don't see it that way.

GUTIERREZ: They don't see it that way because they say they are the party of family values until it comes to families. Now let me just --

BALDWIN: But then hang on. Let me just --


BALDWIN: Just to be fair to Republicans, you know, it sounds like a number of Republicans, and also the majority, I want to say to 87 percent of Americans polled agreeing with you that there should be protection for those Dreamers.

From the perspective of a Democrat, though, why not say, OK, let's get this government running, let's agree to kick the can down the road a little bit longer. We know Dreamers aren't affect. It really -- that end deadline is March. Take the Republicans at their word that they want to do something to protect those Dreamers. Would you be willing to do that?



GUTIERREZ: No. They must guarantee. Here's what McConnell said to -- to Senator Flake. I'll give you a vote on the 19th. Continue funding the government, and he's backed away from that promise.

This is a president of the United States that has tweeted on numerous occasion, I want a wall for the Dreamers. Now that we are ready to give them the wall, and people, and don't think -- this is unprecedented on our part. To take a president of the United States that ran across this country

saying who's going to pay for it? What are we going to build? Creating that kind of animosity to people who look like me and with surnames like mine, and yet, Brooke, it won't resolve the problem, because what they want to do is end legal immigration to the United States of America.

BALDWIN: Let me jump in because again this is what the president is saying, just to hear his side. The president tweeted essentially that on this one year anniversary of the presidency, that this is -- the shutdown was a present from the Democrats. Senator Inhofe today, Republican from Oklahoma, agreed saying your party is doing this to distract from his success. Is that true?

GUTIERREZ: This is the president of the United States who began his campaign by saying that Mexicans are murderers, rapists and drug dealers, and we should get rid of them. And the --

BALDWIN: And so this is a way for the Democrats to try to embarrass the president?

GUTIERREZ: Look, this is not about the wall. I'm going to tell you another reason it's not. Because, you know what, today, there are more people entering the country through LAX, Chicago, O'Hare and Dulles legally on visas and overstaying those vises, than coming across the border, so if you're really concerned about people coming to America, why are you only talking about one point of entry, the point of entry through which most of America is, because you want the drive that message through. So --

BALDWIN: So the Dems just want to -- again, on the behalf of the Republicans.


BALDWIN: They are saying the Democrats are trying to embarrass this president.

GUTIERREZ: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Given the S-hole comments that he allegedly made most recently, given a whole list of comments that he's made in the last 365 days. This isn't about making him look bad?


BALDWIN: By holding this government hostage?

GUTIERREZ: I do want to say this, because I think it's important. Look, you got McConnell, you got McCarthy, right? And they are there stopping the ability to get it. They got Cornyn. They're stopping. Today, if you let Republicans and Democrats join, here's what's going to happen, Brooke. Even if they allow a vote in the Senate on the proposal between Senator Lindsey Graham and Durbin, which by the way the chief of the staff of the president of the United States told me sitting as closely as we are sitting to one another. BALDWIN: Yes.

GUTIERREZ: Said to me, that's not a Republican-Democratic proposal, that's not bipartisan. They have changed the definition of bipartisanship. They said, Luis, you must go to Cotton and Perdue, the most -- the people that have the most extremist views on immigration, that don't believe in immigration, and reach an agreement with them. That's impossible. That bring us to stalemate.

BALDWIN: OK. I'm not --

GUTIERREZ: And that brings us to nothing. It doesn't allow us to solve the problem. So I wanted to come here to say, look, thank you for the invitation because I think it's important that we settle that this is no longer about a wall. That this is about stopping illegal immigration and what they want --