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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Cops: 13 Kids Captive In House Of Horrors; Cops: Sex Offender Can Photograph Little Girls; Manhunt After Young Mom Found Dead In Car; Cops: Woman Sneaks Past TSA & Onto Flight. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired January 22, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HLN HOST: Good evening. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. It is 6:00 Eastern and these are your headlines.

A 15-year-old high school student is in the hospital tonight after a 16- year-old boy shot her in Italy, Texas. It happened in the school`s cafeteria. The shooter fled the campus prompting active shooter alerts all

throughout that community this morning. But tonight the boy is in custody.

In the meantime, police in Florida are looking for the person who may have ignited marine flares at a mall last night. It scared a lot of people into

thinking that these were makeshift bombs going off. Police are now checking all the surveillance cameras, trying to find a suspect in that.

And a neighbor accused of attacking Kentucky Senator Rand Paul on his own lawn, has now been charged with assaulting a member of Congress and that`s

serious, and it`s a felony.

All because of long clippings that the senator apparently blew too close to his neighbor`s property. Rene Boucher has signed a plea agreement and

faces up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

And according to local report, a Michigan police officer has been cleared after handcuffing an 11-year-old girl in an emotional encounter that was

caught on body cam video.

Police were looking for a stabbing suspect nearby who actually turned out to be that girl`s aunt but not the girl. Many accused him of excessive

force and an internal investigation reportedly just cleared him.

And nearly two months after a Colorado high school were mysteriously went missing, the local sheriff is now offering a pretty hefty reward for

information leading to her killer, $15,000.

Maggie Long`s body was found in her family`s burned out home and police are still puzzled, trying to figure out what happened. At the same time, the

authorities are collecting DNA from multiple young men that Maggie knew.

And tonight, the snapshot widens. We knew we were just scratching the surface of the story when we first brought it to you last week because

that`s what the D.A. told us. A California couple with 13 children, all of them home schooled and seemingly happy because that`s what the pictures

told us.

Until one of those kids escaped through a window and told police, their own parents were holding them prisoner, some of them were chained, some of them

hugged tight, some of them in their own excrement, kept from food, kept from showering, kept even from using the bathroom. Unaware of what a

police officer was, unaware of what medicine was.

Those 13 siblings are safe tonight for the first time in decades. Well, filthy details of their sort of life are oozing out of the case file and it

does not stop in California.

Former neighbors are now talking to the L.A. Times about things that they noticed that the family`s first home in back in Rio Vista, Texas like the

eight brand-new children`s bicycles, the couple bought one Christmas that sat outside unused for so long they became sun bleached.

Or the rope that someone discovered in that home. And if you look in that spot shadow, you can see it. It is tied to a metal bed rail. Another

neighbor said there were just no beds, just mattresses.

Not to mention dead dogs and cats rotting in waste deep filth, and two live Chihuahuas found that who only survived because they were eating the waste

found in a pile of diapers.

The couple that moved in after -- after the couple in question, well, they found a feces-scattered living room with eight little desks for the home

schooled kids.

But they also found locks on just about everything in the house, from the closet, to the toy chest, to the fridge, now David and Louise Turpin are

the once who are locked up or charged with 12 counts of torture, twelve counts of self imprisonment, seven counts of abuse against their adult kids

and six counts of abuse against their younger kids.

David is also changed for lewd act on a child under 14. And it is a female child. But investigators are quick to remind us that all of this just may

be the tip of the iceberg.

CNN correspondent Stephanie Elam joins me live now from Los Angeles. Stephanie, they did say that it was the tip of the iceberg and they did say

that the investigation was only just beginning.

But it is hard to believe that we could find out anything worse than yet today, those details that I just brought out. And there are more details -

- details about mom, Louise, and the kind of sex life she was leading. Can you fill me in on what that side of the story is?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Actually it`s coming from a pretty credible source. It`s coming from her sister who has been estranged for a

while, but this is something she says goes back to when she was a teenager at the time.

[18:05:00] She says, she received a call from Louise, her sister saying that she and her husband has decided to leave their church, and they were

expanding on their religions, trying different things out, and that they met a man online from Alabama.

And this was something that they were going to do. She was going to down and have sex with this man and her husband was totally OK with it. And

that this was she...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: This was something that was expanding out of their -- expanding out of their religion. It`s curious that a sister would have these details

because it seems awfully unethical and definitely not within the confines or any contours of a religion.

But let me just play really quickly this interview with Teresa Robinette. And this is Louise` sister talking about this very strange escapade, 700

miles across the country for sex with an unknown man. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA ROBINETTE, SISTER OF LOUISE TURPIN: She told me that her and David have met a man online from Huntsville, Alabama, and that they were on their

way there to meet him.

And that she was going to sleep with him, and that David was OK with that. It did happened, she was went to Huntsville, Alabama. David dropped her

off, she met this man and she slept with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That is Teresa Robinette on Megyn Kelly`s program this morning. Stephanie, the strangeness of that encounter did not end there. There was

even something more bizarre. What was it?

ELAM: Yes, the things is, she said after that part that she does believe that this happened, but then a year later, Louise said that she took --

David, took her back on the anniversary of when she had this happen in Alabama.

And he took her back to the same place to have sex with her in the same room a year after she had sex with this other man in Alabama. That`s what

he sister was saying.

BANFIELD: Still more sickening details. Now let`s turn back towards the children. One of the adult children had actually gone to some college

classes, highly supervised by his mother.

There when he was dropped off and there for the pick up, but one of the former classmates from a music class had some descriptions of what that

young man was like. What did they say?

ELAM: Yes, and think about this, you are talking about someone who was an older child. I think this is like the 24-year-old. So, this is an older

child who is being watched outside of a classroom.

His mom would stay outside of the classroom which he was in the classroom and this is what we are hearing and understanding from what NBC has

reported here.

But this one woman who had classes with him said that he always wore the same thing. Kind of awkward and then there was one time, there a pot luck,

she said he didn`t even sit down.

He just sat there eating plate after plate, like he was famished, he could not get enough food. This is what she remembers of him. And it`s

interesting to think, Ashleigh, I really think that the fact that he was being allowed outside of the house to take this class, when you look at all

the other circumstances of how they were living.

BANFIELD: Scarped down food beside the table, plate after plate, the same clothing every single day, wouldn`t look anyone in the eye, didn`t want to

make eye contact, that from a classmate. It`s so distressing and all of these different stories seemed to really corroborate one another.

If I can, I want to bring in Riverside County District Attorney Michael Hestrin. I just have to say, I watched your news conference on Thursday

and everything fell silent around me.

There is really something when a Newsroom goes quiet and when all eyes are transfixed because the news is so unbelievable. And that was the story of

your news conference on Thursday.

We`ve had four days since you started that news conference saying this is a snapshot and we are only just beginning. Can you tell me what else have

you learned since Thursday?

MICHAEL HESTRIN, RIVERSIDE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: You know, like I said in the news conference, it is an ongoing investigation. Unfortunately, I

can`t -- I can`t discuss, you know, kind of, as things are happening.

But, you know obviously, this is still closer to the beginning. We are just starting to unravel this, and it is disturbing. And it is -- it is

frightening and we`re going to get to the bottom of everything.

BANFIELD: Well, I can imagine that it is extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible to interview a 2-year-old who is the youngest. But these

children span all the way to 29. How are the interviews going with the rest of the children? Have you even begun the interview process?

HESTRIN: You know, with children just generally children, they are abused like this and are victimized like this, we as investigators and those of us

in law enforcement, we have to be patient.

They are going to tell their stories on their own time -- on their own timeline. It`s not reasonable to expect them to sit down and -- you know,

after suffering what they suffered to sit down and say well, this is what happened on the first day and you know, kind of give us chronological

order.

So, we are working closely with these victims and like I said at the press conference, we`re going to get to the truth. We`re going to seek justice.

But we have to do it in a way that protects these victims. And so, they are -- I want to tell you that they are doing well.

[18:10:00] They are still hospitalized. They are being cared for and they are very relieved to be out of that situation and in a safe place.

BANFIELD: And you know, when they went into the hospital, sir, they were eating reportedly once a day. And they were sleeping on a nocturnal

schedule.

It`s been four days, that`s not very long, but do you have any update as to whether they have at least been able to ingest any more food than that sort

of ration that they have been forced to live on? And whether they have been able to adopt sort of a new sleeping schedule? Has anything changed

medically until now?

HESTRIN: I can`t comment on their medical condition. I mean, I did lay out their -- what the trauma they have suffered and how they are

malnourished. I do know that they are eating. They are, you know, getting proper nutrition now. And I would have to assume they are sleeping on a

regular schedule.

BANFIELD: Can you tell me about the counts that they are currently facing? You mentioned there was one count of lewd behavior with the child under 14,

with one of the siblings -- a female sibling under the age of 14. How did you find that out and are more of those charges on the horizon?

HESTRIN: I can`t comment on that on how we found it out, but we do have enough -- where we had enough on Thursday to file those charges. In terms

of whether or not more of those charges will be forth coming, it just really depends. And you know, if we find more evidence of more crimes, we

will file more changes. Nothing keeps us from doing that.

BANFIELD: I understand. In your initial investigation, every victim is different. I know you know your business.

HESTRIN: Right.

BANFIELD: Some victims are compelled with (Inaudible) right out of the gate. Others can take years and painful extraction of the details and this

evidence. In this particular case, do you think at this early stage that the information pattern is such that it will be likely there will be more

changes come something?

HESTRIN: I can`t speculate. I`m sorry. You know, I think I have been made very clear that this is a complicated case. You one of the reasons I

am going public, which is rare. You know, you don`t typically see district attorneys speaking publicly about a case.

The case, is the set of circumstances surrounding this case are so unique, that I want to go public so I can ask for the public`s help in the

different place where is this family ahs lived.

Texas, Murrieta and we are asking the public to give us any information that they may have. And obviously, it has been a few days, and people are

calling. But we are going follow that information and that evidence where ever it leads. And if there are more charges, we will file them at the

appropriate time.

BANFIELD: You say people are calling, are you working with jurisdictions down there as well? Are they also helping investigate and have you find

out corroborative evidence from the people who have called so far?

HESTRIN: Well, we are getting a lot of calls. We do have a tip line set up that I would like to publish. It is 888-934-kids. And so, if people

have information, anything at all, to give -- to call that line and you will be directed connected to us.

BANFIELD: I will just repeat, that was 888-934-kids.

HESTRIN: Yes, K-I-D-S.

BANFIELD: OK. We will say that at the end of the segment as well to remind if I forget, sir. But I want to continue if I can. You mentioned

in your news conference, that there were virtually hundreds of journals that were extracted from that filthy residence because the children were

never allowed anything.

They were not allowed toys. They were not allowed television. They were not allowed any kind of normal child like interaction, but they were

compelled to journal. How much have you been able to sift through out of those hundreds of journals and have you ex-tracked any detailed and

actually information from the journals?

HESTRIN: The journals contain a lot of information. I don`t know that they were compelled to write. I think that they were allowed to write is a

better way to put it. The journals contain a lot of information.

We have not been able to catalog -- catalog all that information. Obviously all of those journals are going to have to be copied and

discovered over the defense.

And so, at this point we are not -- we are not ready to release that. But I can tell you that I think it is going to be very significant. If, you

know, you have a situation where you have the impressions of the victims over many years, and so that`s going to be crucial evidence for us.

BANFIELD: So far, have you learned anything new that you didn`t know on Thursday from the journals?

HESTRIN: We have learned some new things, I just can`t comment further on the evidence. And you have to understand I can`t try the case in the

media, so I can`t really go further than I went on Thursday.

[18:15:00] But you know, we are continuing to learn things new every day. The case is moving along and our investigators are working hard, day in and

day out on this case.

BANFIELD: I understand.

HESTRIN: And they are going to work diligently to get to the bottom of this.

BANFIELD: And you will have to forgive me for probing. It is just that I think there is just so much public interest in this case. We just don`t

get cases like this very often. I am sure you can understand.

HESTRIN: I understand.

BANFIELD: There were reports about cadaver dogs and potentially, cadaver dogs being used in the investigation which would lead people to think that

perhaps there might be victims who did not survive. Is that -- are those reports on track? Are they correct?

HESTRIN: I just can`t comment on that. That`s part of the ongoing investigation that I can`t really comment on.

BANFIELD: Perhaps just the issue of cadaver dogs. Are they involved in this investigation?

HESTRIN: I can`t even comment on that. I`m sorry.

BANFIELD: I understand. The other question I have for you was about the adult children because many of these cases, where there are adults and

minor children who are siblings, you know, end up effectively legal orphans due to the litigation.

Are these adult siblings given the -- you know, given the suffering and the effect on them, would they be capable of caring for the younger siblings or

will they need the same kind of care that the younger siblings will need once they emerge from the hospital?

HESTRIN: That`s a great question and we are working with professionals. You know, that`s obviously not our area of expertise, but we are working

with professionals to make sure that all of these victims get the care that they need right now and also going forward.

They are formulating a plan to move forward with these victims on what`s going to happen next. And one of the things that`s important to us and to

I think everybody involve is to keep them together as much as possible.

BANFIELD: One more question, are David and Louise Turpin talking and I will just add to that, if they are talking, do you get the indication that

they will play ball or do you get the indication, they will take this to the mat and force those children to be witnesses against them?

HESTRIN: I have no way of knowing whether they are speaking. That would - - that`s something obviously that the defense -- I have no way to know what they are saying to one another. This case I think will go to trial. I

don`t believe that this is a case that will end before trial. This to me is a case that will go to trial.

BANFIELD: Well, there is just a second set of tragedies all over again, Mr. District Attorney, if that is the case and those 13 victims are going

to be re-victimized over and over again with a trial, and hats off to you for having to stomach this on a regular basis.

I, thank you for being with us. I understand your contours as well, but we hope, we can keep in contact with you. And I will repeat the number, 888-

934-kids, for anybody who may have information on other jurisdictions or even these crimes themselves.

That will be very helpful for the collection of evidence against the Turpin family. Thank you very much, Mike Hestrin, for interviewing with us.

A convicted sex offender is caught taking pictures of underage girls and posting them online. And it`s not what you are thinking. The girls were

dressed and girls were in public places and the girls had no idea it was going on. It should be illegal, right? Turns out, it`s not. So, where do

you go from here?

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Olympic gymnasts always invoke images of tiny little power houses. The kind of laser focused typically reserved for grown ups with

years of experience and skill.

But lately, those remarkable young women have been forced to summon another kind of super human strength, and lay it there for the public with no catch

net and no soft landing.

In Michigan today, yet more examples of that, fire and vitriol against a disgraced Olympic doctor, Larry Nassar. There he is coming into court

because of sex crimes that he perpetrated against them.

A 133 women and girls and coaches, victims of his abuse have all faced him down in that courtroom and we still have 11 more expected to testify.

I think you can really be safe if you called it seething arrows thrown his way and much deserved quest preventions, which really honestly has been

nothing short of riveting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have never want to hate from real life but my hate towards you is uncontrollable. Larry Nassar, I hate you. You will

probably never talk to a woman again, except for one holding a gun, a tazer, and a billy club, which is a good thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you have done is despicable. What you have done you can never erase. I have found a little bit of peace knowing that the

rest of your life, all you will be doing is rotting, but I have more peace in knowing that one day you are going to die and when you do, your pain

will not subside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Those survivors are facing their abuser. The 900 miles away in Augusta, Maine, another sex offender has been victimizing young girls,

taking pictures of them while they are out with their parents.

And then posting those pictures online, the captions like cute girl, and he`s a registered sex offender at that. But there seems to be nothing that

anyone can do about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I went to the site and sure enough, there were 40 something pictures of my 12-year-old daughter at Barnes and Noble where we

had shopped over the weekend. He had pictures of many other girls.

I was sick. I was physically sick to my stomach. It was pretty horrifying. My daughter and I, both felt violated. We were having a nice

Sunday afternoon. Girls day, you know, Barnes and Noble and went out to lunch. But the frustration that the law could not protect my 12-year-old

daughter was pretty amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The reason the law can`t protect that 12-year-old girl and the reason that we can`t name that man behind the camera tonight is because

what this man has done is not technically illegal -- immoral, sure, disgusting, yes. But it`s something that local police have been forced to

explain to the parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. KEVIN LULLY, AUGUSTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Most reports coming are either public safety concern. Taking pictures of the public places are not

against the law. It does rise to make people a little bit weird or suspicious when somebody is taking photos of them.

It makes people feel uncomfortable. So we share these same concerns that they have. So what we try to do is encourage them through social media

sites. Some of which have already removed certain post.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s important to note tonight that the sex offender in question has decided to put a pause on his photo shoot and has apologized to the

local news station that tracked them down. He is also removing his picture from Flickr.

[18:25:04] But for the girls and the women that he captured, much of that damage seems to have already been done. Crime and Justice Producer Bernice

Man, has have been working the story all day and she joins me live.

So I just sort of perplexed by all of these. It just seems like the story ends there and they don`t get justice. These parents don`t get justice.

And this guy gets to stay anonymous?

BERNICE MAN, RIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER (via phone): That`s right, Ashleigh. As of right now, police have not released his name. All we know

through reports is that the sex offender has three previous convictions for gross sexual assaults.

BANFIELD: Three previous convictions, gross sexual assault and posting pictures of little girls without their knowledge while parents are with

them. One of the parents is Joey Toothaker.

His daughter was snapped, picture posted online by this registered sex offender. And he joins me from Augusta, Maine. Joey, thanks for being

with me.

I can only imagine what you are going through. I`m looking at this picture right now, cute girl and here meathead dad. And there were what -- six or

so of these photos?

JOEY TOOTHAKER, DAUGHTER`S PICTURE TAKEN BY SEX OFFENDER (via phone): More than that, actually, 68 of them.

BANFIELD: Of your daughter?

TOOTHAKER: Yes, me and her together. Not just me and her, but a lot of me and her together. Yes.

BANFIELD: So, how on earth did you discover this on his Flickr account?

TOOTHAKER: Well, I guess he had been known for, you know, rolling on that and just taking pictures, and nobody knew what he was doing until I got a

message from a friend and her sister works at Hannaford.

She had messaged me on Facebook and said can I call you, and I said, well, I`m at work and she messaged me. So she sent me five or six photos that I

had online and she sent me the picture of sex offender register and his accounts.

And at first I was baffled like what is this going on? Then I started to remember that the night we were at Hannaford, that my daughter had notice

this guy, he has happened to be eyed her a couple of time, and looked over...

BANFIELD: He just seemed to be following you throughout the store. I`m just curious. Did you ever -- were you able to track down who it was and

where he lived? I want to be really clear here.

Our country, our system does not operate on summary justice prevention, but as a parent, I can imagine you want to kill the guy. Were you able to find

out who he was and where he was?

TOOTHAKER: Absolutely. I mean, that how we found out. They had called the police and I said my friend who worked there had -- I did mention who

he was and they Googled his name and his Twitter account came up.

And she was going through his pictures and said hey, there is Joey up here, and there is 50 somewhat pictures of them. And (Inaudible), the sex

offender that live in Augusta, right down the street with all the pictures with me and my daughter, and calling her cute, and you don`t really

(Inaudible), understand how that works.

BANFIELD: There is an account of finding three daughters` pictures on social media. I`m just -- I want to be clear here. The person who gave

his interview, his name is Joe, but this is not you, correct, Joey? This is someone else with three daughters who -- you don`t have three daughters,

do you?

TOOTHAKER: No.

BANFIELD: Let me play another person named Joe. You are Joey. This is Joe. Joe, had been here because he found three of his daughter`s

photographs that were posted. Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel anxiety, stress, and anger being concerned with her safety and with this individual just because of his past. Would he do

anything more than just simply take the pictures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Joey, you are in the same boat and I just wonder if you been able to find other parents who found have themselves in the same situation

because apparently, you two aren`t the only two either. I think -- correct me if I am wrong if you found out differently, there may be more than 12 of

you so far that police found out, correct?

(CROSSTALK)

TOOTHAKER: I`m sorry, go ahead.

BANFIELD: No, go ahead. I`m just wondering if you have been able to talk to these other parents and if you doing anything about this?

TOOTHAKER: I have, yes. On the day that I update my status at public, it went viral, probably about 2,000 shares in less than 24 hours. I had

parents that, you know, were messaging me through Facebook and calling me.

You know, letting me know that they we`re not alone. It had happened to them, too. They couldn`t believe it. You know, they thanked me for

putting it out in public and it happened to me. We are not alone.

BANFIELD: It is appalling. Like I said, you know, any parent who would find themselves in your situation I`m sure they would feel that their blood

would be boiling me as well.

I want to bring in forensic psychologist, Brian Russell who joins me now from Kansas City, Missouri. He is the co-host of Fatal Vows Investigation

Discovery. Brian, thank you for being here. This is just extraordinary. A registered sex offender with three serious has been his background.

Three convictions in his background. And seemingly able to just do this at will with the protections of the First Amendment. I am going to get into

legal discussion about that in a moment. But just tell, you know, what these parents are supposed to do to cope with this, because they are not

getting justice?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Ashleigh, I was an expert witness in a civil commitment case very, very similar to this about 10 years ago. And

as I explained to that jury, the fact that this man is a registered sex offender and he is doing this kind of a thing is deeply disconcerting, and

for the folks at (INAUDIBLE), that means worrisome.

Because if you were convicted of a crime and you got a second chance to be out among the public and you are a normal person, you would be inclined to

stay so far away from anything that would lead anybody to think you were re-offending.

Here is this guy. He has got his second chance to be out and yet he is walking right up against that line. Hasn`t necessarily committed another

crime yet, but walking right up to the line.

That`s deeply concerning because that suggests to me a person who is having a real hard time or is just not interested in resisting the urge to go back

and I`m worried about this behavior potentially escalating.

But, as you said, no new crime yet that we know of, which is why I am always saying and ever since you and I have been talking about these cases

together, I have said time and time again when we had a registered sex offender reoffend, why are we letting these people have so many second,

third, fourth, and fifth chances?

The solution is to have the original sentence --

BANFIELD: Yes.

RUSSELL: -- be longer because the truth is, we are not going to rehabilitate these guys.

BANFIELD: I agree to that.

RUSSELL: The only way to protect the public from them is with bars.

BANFIELD: Well, either that or different conditions. For that, I want to bring in defense attorney and CNN and HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson. I

get the First Amendment. I get it.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: But you can`t yell fire in a movie theater. And you know what else? You can`t defame people. So, you are not 100 percent protected from

the first or protected by the First Amendment.

JACKSON: Great points. Great points.

BANFIELD: So why is a lifetime registered sex offender not given these conditions that you can`t do this to little girls?

JACKSON: It`s a wonderful point. We have to talk about it. Now, here is the law. The law is that the law has to apply evenly and equally to

everyone. You can`t say, well, these are laws that we are going to say, if you are a sex offender and you take a picture of someone in a public place,

it`s a crime for you, but it is not a crime for someone else.

So when anybody is in a place where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, right out in the public, you can snap a shot and it`s a non-issue.

In the event, for example, that they are in some other place, right, had this been inside the school, presumably in a place, had it been inside a

locker room, had it been in some other location, now you run in some problems.

But, to the extent that you are out in public doing public things, they are fully dressed in clothes, sex offenders, I hate to say --

BANFIELD: They got a right too.

JACKSON: Everybody else --

BANFIELD: But they don`t. They are not allowed to associate. Freedom of association is protected in the constitution and they can`t go near a

school or a church.

JACKSON: Wonderful point.

BANFIELD: Why can`t that be extrapolated into don`t post pictures of little girls?

JACKSON: You know, I think to that frustration, I think you will see some kind of legislative fix, meaning --

BANFIELD: I hope so.

JACKSON: -- yes, legislatures will look at this and say, this is not right and we have to, you know, take some steps against it. But they have to be

careful because of that thing called the law and the constitution.

BANFIELD: I get it. Social media has changed and you know what? The constitution is hostile. That is interpreted by judges. And they take away

your --

JACKSON: Exceptional points.

BANFIELD: -- First Amendment right and they take away your right to bear arms when you go into the can, too. We do that all the time.

JACKSON: Cannot argue.

BANFIELD: And it goes right to maybe reassess when it comes to these --

JACKSON: And it will be.

BANFIELD: Joey, thank you. I appreciate it. And (INAUDIBLE), thank you as well for your contributions, and I`m so sorry that you and these other

parents are going through it.

There is an urgent manhunt tonight after the prime suspect and ex-boyfriend in the death of a beautiful young mom. He just vanished, but it`s hard to

stay gone for long.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: It has been two weeks since a young mom in California vanished. Just 21 years old and a favorite waitress at a local restaurant with an

adorable 2-year-old daughter. That is Karen Garcia right there.

Karen went missing. And her boyfriend immediately went missing, too, but not before he did what most loved ones would do, he begged for her to come

back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Any idea where Karen is?

SALVADOR GARCIA, JR., SUSPECT: No idea. I just put together what we have been told. Where everybody else knows. Just kind of put it together but not

much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Any leads from the police?

GARCIA: No. I talked to police officers and all they`re doing is putting up fliers so far. They put out

[18:40:00] the vehicle and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Is this out of character for her? I mean, does she go off sometimes?

GARCIA: No. Not like this. Then to miss work, that`s never like her. She is always there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): And you have a child together.

GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): What kind of mother is she? I mean, would she ever leave her baby?

GARCIA: No. She loves her daughter. She`s her number one priority, always.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): So what do you do now?

GARCIA: Right now, I work. Trying to stay strong for her. Trying to stay strong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I don`t blame you. I don`t blame you. Are you going to go along with them and search for her?

GARCIA: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And if fact he did after that interview. He did help search for her. Before long, he was gone, too. Strangely enough, disappearing right

around the time they found her body in that car in the parking lot about an hour away from her home.

Police say the couple had, oh, yes, wait for it, recently broken up. In fact, just days before Karen was killed. And that the breakup wasn`t

mutual. Now, Salvador Garcia is somewhere out there and on the run.

Benjy Egel is a reporter with The Sacramento Bee. His paper actually interviewed Salvador Garcia right before he disappeared. Benjy, thanks for

joining me. Real quickly. Do they have any lead? Are they any closer to finding this guy? Is he truly -- has he just gone underground?

BENJY EGEL, REPORTER, THE SACRAMENTO BEE (via telephone): Thank you for having me, Ashleigh. They do have one lead that popped up maybe a couple of

days ago or so. The police department believes he may be driving a black 2011 Toyota Sienna van with California license plate number 6NYB823.

That`s all they know so far. They don`t know where he might be. They don`t know if he is in Colusa or around the area or has fled somewhere north,

south or east at this point.

BANFIELD: Stolen too, as I understand it. So can I ask you, was your outfit suspicious of him during the interview? Let me play a little bit

more of it. Because now that we know it would only be days before he would vanish after giving this sort of crocodile tear interview to KOVR, I

believe it was KOVR, yes, KOVR, our CNN affiliate.

And you had the chance to have this -- your outfit had a chance to have this conversation as well. I want to ask you after we watched this, if you

had any suspicions, if The Sacramento Bee was suspicious at all of this very, very emotional boyfriend while he was begging us all to help find

this missing girlfriend.

Let`s play the KOVR interview as well and now knowing what you know, you can take a deep, deep look into those eyes. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I didn`t ask you, when was the last time you saw her?

GARCIA: Monday. Monday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Monday morning.

GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): So Monday morning, did you see her when she was leaving the apartment?

GARCIA: Yes. She got in her car and took off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): How did she seem?

GARCIA: Just in a rush to get out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Did she say where she was going?

GARCIA: No. She just said I`m taking off. I thought she was going to her mom`s house. And I didn`t hear anything from her until like 6:00. I told

her I was going to drop off baby with her mom. She said OK. That was the last thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): And that was via text or on the phone?

GARCIA: Text.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Through text?

GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): You said, I`m going to drop off the baby, she said OK, and that was it?

GARCIA: Yes. The next day, I tried calling her and sent her a message to let her know her mom was worried. No reply. I tried calling multiple times

throughout the day. No response. The phone rings but nothing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: So, Benjy, did your outfit have any suspicion?

EGEL (via telephone): You know, I think we did. We interviewed one of her friends before, gave the name of the suspect. And other friend mentioned

that they have recently broken up after about nine years together. Any time you have someone disappear after the end of a relationship like that, I

think that you need to be a little suspicious of the ex-boyfriend at that point.

BANFIELD: That`s an interesting point.

EGEL (via telephone): It wasn`t too surprising when he was named as the primary suspect to us.

BANFIELD: Let me bring in Tom Fuentes, CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director. Tom, he is 22 years old. Just how

difficult is it to really disappear in the United States of America when there is a manhunt after you?

TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Ashleigh, it is difficult, but the question here is, the police or the district attorney in

Colusa, California have not brought charges against him. So they are going to be unable to issue federal warrants for his arrest for unlawful

(INAUDIBLE) to avoid prosecution

[18:45:00] or one of the other violations where the federal government can bring all of the worldwide resources to bear to try to apprehend him.

So right now, you know, apparently he is just wanted for questioning regarding this matter and no formal charges. But to stay --

BANFIELD: Yes, you don`t get all the gear and all the money and all the H.R. to find a guy in a manhunt when you haven`t brought the charges, so

that would be the next step?

FUENTES: Well, normally in a manhunt, you want to be able to do everything you could possibly do to apprehend the person, that is get, does he have

credit cards? Are those cards being used? How much cash does he have? Does he have an ATM card accessing money?

Normally fugitives or people on the run go to mama or go to papa. Does he has relatives? Do they live in the United States? Friends, neighbors,

anybody that he could go to for help. Because you`re not going to be able to stay on the loose for too long without money and without help.

BANFIELD: They always think they are smarter. They always think they are smarter. And then they trip themselves up. Tom Fuentes, thank you. Benjy

Egel, thank you as well.

Police are calling her a serial stow away and she is 66 years old. This woman with a huge collection of mug shots managed to sneak on to yet

another flight and this one international. All the way to London. And it is not the first time she has done this. How can she keep re-offending? That`s

next.

[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: An elderly woman arrested for hopping on a flight to London without a ticket. If it was the first time, OK, you know, a lot of people

get second chances. This was not Marilyn Hartman`s first go around. Not even her second rodeo. No. She had gotten on board planes illegally a whole

bunch of times and has been arrested at least eight times before.

The scary thing is how she did it Chicago O`Hare International. Police say she made it through a TSA domestic check point. Don`t ask. I don`t know how

she did that. But she did it without a ticket. And then somehow got on to the shuttle that took her to the international terminal.

She wasn`t arrested until she landed at Heathrow. But according to multiple sources, Marilyn has been arrested at least eight times and stopped more

than a dozen times at airports in Illinois, California, Florida, and Arizona all for breaching security. And here is what she had to say after

an arrest back in 2014.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN HARTMAN, CHARGED WITH FELONY THEFT: It was stupid and it`s something I don`t want to repeat. It was clearly wrong on my part, and I

certainly don`t want to do it again, because I certainly don`t want to do any jail time. Obviously, they will be on the watch for me, so I wouldn`t

dare do this again.

I don`t want to be in that position. I want to go with a paid ticket. Wonderful. I feel free as a bird. I wouldn`t want to encourage that

behavior because I`m as concerned about security as everyone else. That`s why I don`t want to encourage it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: No. Because of the hearing last week, the judge released Marilyn Hartman on the condition that she receive some psychiatric help and there

is no word on how that`s going right now.

But honestly when I saw the story today, Joey, I thought this was a repeat script that we had a few years ago on show I did in CNN called "Legal

View."

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: She is back at it. There are five arrests in 2014, two in 2015, one in 2016, one in 2018. I don`t even know -- put up the row of pictures?

JACKSON: Love those mugshots.

BANFIELD: How did this happen?

JACKSON: Look, I can`t cast dispersion on a TSA because we both have to travel. And I don`t want to be stopped nor want you to be stopped. But the

reality is they should potentially hire here to look at the flaws, look at the breaches, look at what she did, how she did it, and --

BANFIELD: You`re not kidding?

JACKSON: -- I`m not kidding, in order to shore up their security. She will get a slap on the wrist. She is released and judge was sent down. I know

she is 66 or what have you.

BANFIELD: Come on, nine mugshots already for the same thing. I can`t believe they don`t have those nine mugshots at every single checkpoint all

around the country.

JACKSON: They will now.

BANFIELD: OK. So a gas station robbery takes an unexpected turn when the suspect goes ahead and sets the counter on fire. That`s coming up, next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. Police are searching for a man who robbed a D.C. gas station and then set the counter of the store on

fire. This was all captured on the store`s video surveillance and in that video, you can see him come in to the store.

[19:00:00] And it looks as though he might be browsing, doing some shopping, goes up to pay. Police say he demanded money and when the cashier

said no, that`s when he pulled out some flammable liquid, threw it all over the counter and torched it and then just went ahead and did that, slipped

out the door.

Thank God no one was hurt in all of this. But that`s a dangerous person and they really want to find him before he is able to do anything like that

or worse again.

The next hour of "CRIME AND JUSTICE" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They escaped the house on horrors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was like a religious compound over there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their parents accused of starving them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parent would apparently buy food for themselves and not allow the children to eat it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are saying that a 29-year-old female weighs 82 pounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the filth, squalor and torture techniques --.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Locked in different rooms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- are only just coming to light.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never dreamed the kids were being torment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, the man leading the investigation --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is depraved conduct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Into the California couple behind the matching outfits, Disney magic and phony facade.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is severe emotional and physical abuse. There is no way around that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A strange man taking pictures of young girls. And not just any man, a registered sex offender. Why the police can do nothing

about him or his sick little hobby.

And a manhunt tonight for a dead woman`s boyfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was so sweet. She had the biggest and most beautiful smile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When her body was found --.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I noticed condensation on the window.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was nowhere in sight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If her boyfriend has done something like this, I do not understand why.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he just couldn`t resist the cameras before he became the suspect and subject of a nationwide manhunt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just said, well, I`m taking off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the second hour of "CRIME AND JUSTICE."

Tonight, a California couple is facing the possibility of spending the rest of their life in prison as the list of things that they are accused of

doing to their own 13 children. They allegedly held as prisoners. That list just grows and grows.

We are learning it was bad back when they lived as a family in Texas where former neighbors told the "L.A. Times" about a rotting house that wreaked

of filth with a rope tied to the metal rail on one of the beds and looks found on everything. The closet, the toy chest, even the fridge.

And that`s before things get disgusting. Because neighbors also described two Chihuahuas that survived on the filth on the waste that they found in a

pile of diapers. And the bodies of other pets that didn`t make it. Not to mention the feces filled living rooms with eight little desks arranged for

home schooling eight little kids.

And we are learning that it only got worse when that family moved on to California where some of the kids were chained, some of them hog tied,

prevented from using the bathroom, forced to stay up all night, allowed a shower only once per year and taunted with food that they were not allowed

to eat.

So frail, the officers who found them didn`t even realized that seven of them were actually adults. And that investigators uncovered what happened

to the kids thanks to the 17-year-old daughter who escaped out a window. We are learning more about their so-called parents responsible for each and

every one of these sickening living conditions, David and Louise Turpin. A couple seemingly madly in love, but a couple with a history of shady

decisions as Louise`s sister told Megyn Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA ROBINETTE, SISTER OF LOUISE TURPIN: She told me that her and David met a man online from Handsful (ph), Alabama and that they were on their

way there to meet him. And that she was going to sleep with him and that David was OK with that. It did happen. She lived in Alabama. David

dropped her off. She met this guy in a motel. Slept with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: But David and Louise stayed together racking up dozens of charges for abuse and torture of their kids. The stomach-curling

investigation is in the hands of the district attorney Michael Hestrin. We just spoke with him an hour ago about how those kids are doing,

specifically whether they are now getting to eat more and getting on a regular sleep schedule.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HESTRIN, RIVERSIDE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I can`t comment on their medical condition. I mean, I did lay out their - what the trauma

they suffer and how they were malnourished. I do know that they are eating. They are, you know, getting proper nutrition now. And I would

have to assume that they are sleeping on a regular schedule.

[19:05:03] BANFIELD: Can you tell me about the counts they are currently facing? You mentioned there was one count of lewd behavior with the child

under 14, with one of the siblings - female sibling under the age of 14. How did you find that out? And are more of those charges on the horizon?

HESTRIN: I can`t comment on that on how we found it out, but we do have enough or we had enough on Thursday to file those charges. In terms of

whether or not more of those changes will be forth coming, it just really depends, you know. If we find evidence of more crimes, we will file more

charges. Nothing keeps us from doing that.

BANFIELD: Understand. In your initial investigation, every victim is different. I know you know your business. Some victims are compelled with

(INAUDIBLE), right out of the gate. Other, they can take years and painful extraction of these details and these evidence.

In this particular case, do you think at this early stage that the information pattern is such that it will be likely there will be more

charges coming?

HESTRIN: I can`t speculate, I`m sorry. You know, I think that I had been made very clear that this is a complicated case. You know, one of the

reasons I`m going public which is rare, you know. You don`t typically see the district attorney speaking publicly about a case.

The case is the set of circumstances surrounding this case are so unique that I want to go public so I can ask for the public`s help in the

different places where this family has lived, Texas Marietta (ph). And we are asking the public to give any information that they may have. And

obviously, you know, it has been a few days and people are calling. But we are going to follow that information, that evidence wherever it leads. And

if there are more changes, we will file them at appropriate time.

BANFIELD: You mentioned in your news conference that there were virtually hundreds of journals that were extracted from the filthy residence because

the children were never allowed anything. They weren`t allowed toys. They weren`t allowed television. They weren`t allowed any like of normal child-

like interactions. But they were compelled to journal.

How much have you been able to sift through out of the hundreds of journals and have you extracted any detailed and actual information from the

journals?

HESTRIN: The journals contain a lot of information. And I don`t know if they were compelled to write. I think were allowed to write as a better

was to put it. The journals contain a lot of information. We have not been able to catalogue all that information. Obviously, all of those

journals are going to have to be copied and discovered over the defense. And so at this point we are not ready to release that.

Buy I can tell you that I think it is going to be very significant. If, you know, you have a situation where you have the impressions of the

victims over many years and so that`s going to be crucial evidence for us.

BANFIELD: So far, have you learned anything new that you didn`t know on Thursday from the journals?

HESTRIN: We have learned some new things. I just can`t comment further on the evidence. And you know, you have to understand I can`t try the case in

the media so I can`t really go further than I went on Thursday. But you know, we are continuing to learn new things every day. The case is moving

along. Our investigators are working hard day in and day out on this case.

BANFIELD: Understand.

HESTRIN: And they are going to work diligently to gets to the bottom of this.

BANFIELD: And you will have to forgive me for probing, it`s just that I think there is so much public interest in the case. We just don`t get

cases like this very often. I`m sure you can understand.

There were reports about cadaver dogs and potentially cadaver dogs being used in the investigation which would lead people to think that perhaps

there might be victims who did not survive. Are those reports on track? Are they correct?

HESTRIN: I just can`t comment on that. That`s part of the ongoing investigation that I can`t really comment on.

BANFIELD: Perhaps just the issue of cadaver dogs. Are they involved in this investigation?

HESTRIN: I can`t even comment on that. I`m sorry.

BANFIELD: Understand.

Are David and Louise Turpin talking? And I will just add to that, if they are talking, do you get the indication that they will play ball or do you

get the indication they will take this to the mat and force those children to be witnesses against them?

HESTRIN: I have no way of knowing whether they are speaking. That`s something, obviously, that the defense. I have no way of knowing what they

say to one another.

This case I think will go to trial. I don`t believe this is a case that will end before trial. This, to me, is a case that will go to trial.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[19:10:09] BANFIELD: The district attorney speaking with us. Michael Hestrin, about this particular case. Understandably not able to release a

lot of information. But the press is getting a lot, too.

CNN correspondent Stephanie Elam joins me live from Los Angeles.

It seems there is just no shortage of sources who are now starting to realize what they saw in the last decades and the homes that they lived in.

And it went beyond just filth. And then there is this story that Louise Turpin`s sister told Megyn Kelly on "Today" about a sickening sex trip that

Louise and David took to meet a man that they have met online.

Can you just take it from there, Stephanie and just sort of shed light on the kind of people they were with regard to this incident?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. What is interesting about this, Ashleigh, is that it seemed according to the sister that there was a change

for this Turpin couple. That they were going to leave the church they were and they were trying out different religious beliefs. And along with that,

according to the sister, she was kind of giddy about this new act that they are going to take on that she was going to have sex with the man and her

husband was completely OK with it, in fact, drove her to it.

Take a listen to what her sister, her estranged sister told Megyn Kelly on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBINETTE: She told me that her and David met a man online from (INAUDIBLE), Alabama and they were on their way there to meet him. And

that she was going to sleep with him and that David was OK with that. It did happen. She head to Alabama. David dropped off. She met this guys in

a motel, she slept with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Stephanie, what happened after?

ELAM: She went right back to the same hotel and David took her there and they had sex on the same place on the anniversary of that. That`s what her

sister said happened in this particular case.

So when you think about it that way, it shows a pattern of them perhaps being unified but also doing things that many people would consider just

very deviant behavior.

BANFIELD: Well, it`s deviant and, you know, taken into context of everything else that is coming out in the story. These vows being renewed

every two years with crazy celebratory matching costumes for these children and an Elvis impersonator. And knowing now what was going on behind the

facade of those clean clothes is just it is so despicable to think those little kids were allowed to shower only once a year. And it does make you

wonder if that shower was prior to the photos for these weddings for the weddings and plural weddings. And for the Disney trips and for the

costumes and these stupid photos that depicted nothing of the realities that were really behind those faces.

I wanted to ask you another story that has emerged about what happened in Texas where they lived. Because neighbors and classmates have sort of come

out of the woodwork, too. A classmate saying that one of these younger - one of the adult children had been in a class with this person and said

that he wore the same clothes for the entire duration of the class. And there was more to it. More to the description of what this young adult was

like. What was that?

ELAM: It`s so sad, Ashleigh, because according to this former classmate, this -- one of the older children from what we understand, first of all his

mother would take him to the class, stay outside the class the entire the time and then take away right after. But she said that he would not make

eye contact. That he was, you know, stay to himself. And that also they had a potluck one time and he showed up and just stood by the food and ate

late after plate. It was just completely famish. And the fact that he did that really stuck out for her about them.

And you know, you were talking a little about these matching clothes, Ashleigh. According to their grandmother, David Turpin`s mother who CNN

was able to get in touch with last week about this. She said that they were protective of the children and make them wear the same clothes when

they went into public and line them up in order of age with mom at the front of the line and then all the way up to the eldest at the end of the

line and then dad would be at the end. So they would be dressed alike and then march around in the sort of order when they were out in public. So

another --.

BANFIELD: Yes. I saw John and Kate, you know, and their aide and that was all to make sure that they could find their kids and that all made perfect

sense. But I`m pretty sure that John and Kate, they weren`t changed their beds. Their own (INAUDIBLE). So I don`t buy any of that. I think that

this is a twisted, twisted couple that --.

ELAM: I think it is part of their protectiveness to hide their secret. I actually honestly do because they would make --.

BANFIELD: Yes. Well and to celebrate in something that was really, you know, just sort of off the chain.

And I will tell you what, I`m going to bring in friends of a psychologist Brian Rusell. He is live in Kansas City. And he is also a co-host of

"Fatal Vows" on investigation discovery. Because you know what, I need somebody with more degrees in a circle because I don`t get how this any of

it, I don`t get any of it can happen that those children can look that way and - you don`t see it. I have seen the video that doesn`t have the

obscured faces. They are smiling and they are seemingly enjoying these trips and this ridiculous wedding performances and that`s what they were.

They were performances for seemingly David and Louise only. Help me get into the minds of the kids as they got out only once every two years.

[19:15:27] BRIAN RUSSELL, PHD, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: So the reason thaw don`t understand is because you are a mentally health normal person. And

so it`s good that you don`t understand it. And yet, I think millions of people around the country are endeavoring to understand it because it is

just so stomach turning depraved.

The reason why you are supposed to want to become a parent and the reason why want most parents do become parents is because you want to invest

something of yourself in a new generation and try to help them become all that they can be and have something of yourself go on in a positive way and

all of that. And so most people I think look at the story and they say it has to be the case that somehow these two people, these two adults

twistedly wrapped their minds around some belief system that said this was actually good. This way of living was good for them and for these kids and

maybe even convinced the kids for a time of that.

But you look at the sadism now of some of this, the taunting of the kids, the deprivation showing them some food, but having it be out of reach and

they can`t --.

BANFIELD: Brian, eight bicycles. Eight bicycles, neighbors say, were purchased at Christmas in Texas when they were maybe only eight kids and

lined up outside the house and stayed there until they bleached unused. I mean, it is twisted.

RUSSELL: Right. It is sadistic. And it really drives home a point that I know nobody wants to accept and believe. But there are people who know

what they are doing. Their minds are working well enough to know that it`s wrong and they do it anyway for their own twisted self-gratification even

to the extent of victimizing their kids.

Now you remember Jaycee Dugard, I`m sure. I remember sitting here years ago with Anderson Cooper and he asked me, you know, what in the world are

we going to do for these kids? And I said at the time there is no manual for this. It is fortunately, it`s so rare we don`t have a manualize

treatment for this, but thankfully at least if there is any kind of hope to come out of the Jacee Dugard case, is that hopefully we learned some

lessons (INAUDIBLE) that we can now apply to help these respect these kids, you know, recover from this the best they possibly can.

BANFIELD: You know, one quick comment from Joey Jackson, defense attorney, and it`s never quick comment, but in this case, trial really?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can`t wrapped my head around it. Trial could be so more cruel to these kids who were suffered already. Take a

plea. They deserve life in jail. Life is too good for them. This is horrific.

BANFIELD: And yet the DA said he thinks this is going to trial.

JACKSON: I was amazed by that.

BANFIELD: Poor children --.

JACKSON: He said it, indeed.

BANFIELD: Be compels to testify. Just awful.

Thank you to all my guests.

And also this. A convicted sex offender caught taking pictures of underage girls and posting them online. It is not what you are thinking. They were

dressed. The girls were in public places many times with their own parents. Somehow this is not illegal. Let me remind you, convicted sex

offender.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:01] BANFIELD: Olympic gymnasts always invoke images of tiny little power houses, the kind of laser focused typically reserved for grownups

with years of experience and skill. But lately, those remarkable young women have been forced to summon another kind of super human strength and

lay it fair for the public with no catch net and no soft landing.

In Michigan today, yet, more examples of that. Fire and vitriol against a disgraced Olympic doctor, Larry Nassar. There he is coming in to the court

because of sex crimes that he perpetrated against them. A 133 women and girls and coaches, victims of his sexual abuse have all faced him down in

that courtroom. And we still have 11 more expected to testify.

I think you could really be safe if you called seizing arrows along his way and much served quest for vengeance which really honestly has been nothing

short of riveting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have never want to hate in my life, but my hate towards you is uncontrollable. Larry Nassar, I hate you. You will

probably never talk to a woman again except for one holding a gun, a tazer, and a Billy club which is a good thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you have done is despicable. What you have done, you can never erase. I found a little bit of peace knowing that the

rest of your life, all you will be doing is rotting. But I find more peace in knowing one day you are going to die and when you do, your pain will not

subside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Those survivors are facing their abuser. But 900 miles away in Augusta, Maine, another sex offender has been victimizing young girls,

taking pictures of them while they are with their parents and then posting those pictures online with captions like cute girl. And he is a registered

sex offender at that. But there seems to be nothing that anyone can do about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORANA LILIBERTE, DAUGHTER WAS PHOTOGRAPHED: So I went to the site and sure enough, there were 40 something pictures of my 12-year-old daughter at

Barnes and Noble where we had shopped over the weekend alone. And he had pictures of many other girls.

I was sick. I was physically sick to my stomach. It was pretty horrifying. My daughter and I both felt violated. We were out having a

nice Sunday afternoon, girls` day, you know. Barnes and Noble, went out to lunch. But the frustration to know that the law could not protect my 12-

year-old daughter was pretty amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The reason the law can`t protect that 12-year-old girl and the reason that we can`t name that man behind the camera tonight is because

what this man has done is not technically illegal. Immoral, sure. Disgusting, yes. But it`s something that local police have been forced to

explain to the parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. KEVIN LULLY, AUGUSTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Most of the reports are coming in are that of a public safety concern, taking pictures on the public

places is not against the law. It does rise to make people a little bit leery or suspicious once somebody is taking photos of them. It makes

people feel uncomfortable. So we share the same valid concerns that they have. So what we try to do is encourage them to reach out to social media

sites. Some of which have already removed certain posts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s important to note tonight that the sex offender in question has decided put a pause to his photo shoot and he has apologized to the

local news station that . He is also removing his pictures from flicker. But for the girls and the women that he captured, much of that damage seems

to have already been done.

"CRIME AND JUSTICE" Bernice Man working the story all day and she joins me live.

So I am just sort of perplexed by all of this. It just seems like the story ends there and they don`t get justice. These parents don`t get

justice. And this guy gets to stay anonymous?

[19:25:11] BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER (on the phone): That`s right, Ashleigh. As of right now, police have not released his name. All

we know is through reports is that this sex offender has three previous convictions for sexual assaults.

BANFIELD: Three previous convictions of gross sexual assault and posting pictures of little girls without their knowledge while parents are with

them. One of those parents is Joey Toothaker. His daughter was snapped. Picture posted online by this registered sex offender and he joins me from

Augusta, Maine.

Joey, thanks for being with me. I can only imagine what you are going through. I`m looking at this picture right now. Cute girl and her neat

head dad. And there were what, six or so of these photos?

JOEY TOOHAKER, DAUGHTER`S PICTURE TAKEN BY SEX OFFENDER: No. There are actually about 58 of them?

BANFIELD: Of your daughter?

TOOTHAKER: Yes. Me and her together. Not just me and her but a lot of me and her together. Yes.

BANFIELD: So how on earth did you discover this on his flicker account?

TOOTHAKER: Well, what happened is I guess he had been known for more like taking pictures of what really he was doing until I got a message from one

of my friends and her sister works at (INAUDIBLE). And she had messaged me and said hey, can I call you and I said well, I`m at work now. Why don`t

you message me? She said sure. So she sent me five or six photos that I had a line and she sent me the picture of the sex offender registry and his

accounts. And at first I said what it this going on? I started to remember that we were in Hanford that my daughter (INAUDIBLE) happened to

be there.

BANFIELD: He just seemed to be following you throughout the store. I`m just curious, did you ever -- were you able 20 track down who it was, where

he lived? And I want to be really clear here. Our country, our system does not operate on summary justice or vengeance but as a parent, I can

imagine you want to kill the guy. Were you able to find out who he was and where he was?

TOOTHAKER: Absolutely. I mean, that`s how I found out that they had called the police at like I said my friend`s sister has work (INAUDIBLE)

who he was and I Googled his name and his flicker accounts. And she was going through his pictures and she said hey, Joey is here and there were

more pictures of him - me and we contact and let him know that there was a sex offender in Augusta right down the street that, you know, they has all

these pictures of your daughter, calling her cute. And you know, (INAUDIBLE) I was like a prize --. I don`t understand how that works for

him.

BANFIELD: So there is this account of finding three daughter`s pictures on social media.

I want to be clear here. The person who gave this interview, his name is Joe. But this isn`t you, correct Joey? This is someone else with three

daughters who -- you don`t have three daughters, do you?

TOOTHAKER: No, I don`t.

BANFIELD: OK. Let me play another person named Joe. You are Joey. This is Joe. Joe did give an interview because he found three of his daughters`

photographed and posted. Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE, THREE DAUGHTERS PHOTOGRAPHED: I feel anxiety, stress, and anger being concerned with her safety with this individual just because of his past

and, you know, would he do anything more than just simply take the pictures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Joey, you are in the same boat. And I just wonder if you have been able to find other parent who have found themselves in the same

situation? Because apparently, you two aren`t the other two either. I think, correct me if I`m wrong, if you found out differently. There may be

more than 12 of you so far who have at least found out. Correct?

TOOTHAKER: Absolutely. And - that`s right, go ahead.

BANFIELD: No, go ahead. I`m just wondering if you have been able to talk to these other parents and if you are doing anything about this.

TOOTHAKER: I have, yes. The day that I had my picture status went public and it went viral probably about 2,000 shares in the last 24 hours. I had

parents that were, you know, messaging me, posted in Facebook, calling me, you know, that I wasn`t alone. It has happened to them too and they

couldn`t believe. And they thank me for putting this out in the public that it happened to me.

BANFIELD: It is appalling. And like I said, you know, any parent who would find themselves in your situation I`m sure they would feel that their

blood would be boiling as well.

I want to bring in forensic psychologist Brian Russell who joins me now from Kansas City, Missouri. He is also the cohost of "Fatal Vows" on

investigation discovery.

Brian, thank you for being here. This is just extraordinary of registered sex offender with three serious charges in his background, three

convictions in his background.

[19:30:00] And seemingly able to just do this at will with the protection from the first amendment. I`m going to get into the legal discussion about

that in a moment, but just tell me, you know, what these parents are supposed to do to cope with this because they`re not getting justice.

BRIAN RUSSELL, PH.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Ashleigh, I was an expert witness in a civil commitment case very, very similar to this about 10

years ago. And as I explained to that jury, the fact that this man is a registered sex offender and he`s doing this kind of a thing is deeply

disconcerting. And for the folks that babe.net that means worrisome. Because if you were convicted of a crime and you got a second chance to be

out among the public, and you are a normal person, you would be inclined to stay so far away from anything that would lead anybody to think you were

reoffending.

Here`s this guy, he`s got a second chance to be out and yet, he`s walking right up against that line, hasn`t necessarily committed another crime yet,

but walking right up to the line. That`s deeply concerning because that suggests to me a person who is having a real hard time or is just not

interested in, you know, resisting the urge to go back and I`m worried about this behavior potentially escalating. But as you said, no new crime

yet that we know of. Which is why I`m always saying, and ever since you and I have been talking about these cases together, I`ve said time and time

again, when we`ve had a registered sex offender re-offend, why are we letting these people have so many second, third, fourth, and fifth chances?

The solution is to have the original sentences be longer. Because the truth is, we are not going to rehabilitate these guys.

BANFIELD: Well, either that --

RUSSELL: The only way to protect the public from them is with bars, steel bars.

BANFIELD: Well, either that or different conditions. And for that, I want to bring in defense attorney and CNN and HLN Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson.

I get the first amendment. I get it.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: But you can`t yell fire in a movie theater and you know what else you can`t do? You can`t defame people. So, you are not 100 percent

protected from the first -- or protected --

JACKSON: Great points. Great points.

BANFIELD: -- by the first amendment. So, why is a lifetime registered sex offender not given these conditions, that he can`t do this to little girl?

JACKSON: It`s a -- it`s a wonderful point. We have to talk about it. Now, here`s the law. The law is that the law has to apply evenly and

equally to everyone. You can`t say, well, these are laws that -- we`re going to say, if you are a sex offender and you take a picture of someone

in a public place, it`s a crime for you, but it`s not a crime for someone else. And so when anybody is in a place where there is no reasonable

expectation of privacy, right out in a public, you can snap or shot, and it`s a non-issue. In the event, for example, that they`re in some other

place, right, had this been inside their school, presumably, in this place, had it been inside a locker room, had it been in some other location, now,

you run into problems. But for the extent that you`re out in public doing public things, they`re fully dressed in clothes, sex offenders, I hate to

say --

BANFIELD: They got rights, too.

JACKSON: -- have the same right as everybody else, and can`t put them in jail forever.

BANFIELD: But they don`t. They are not allowed to associate -- Freedom of association is protected in the constitution and they can`t go near a

school or a church, too.

JACKSON: Wonderful point.

BANFIELD: So, why can`t that be extrapolated into don`t post pictures of little girls.

JACKSON: You know, I think to that frustration, I think you will see some kind of a legislative fix. Meaning --

BANFIELD: I hope so.

JACKSON: Yes, legislatures will look at this and say --

BANFIELD: I hope so.

JACKSON: -- this is not right and we have to, you know --

BANFIELD: Yes.

JACKSON: Take some steps against it. But they have to be careful because of that thing called the law and the constitution.

BANFIELD: I get it. The social media has changed and you know what? The constitution has also -- that`s interpreted by judges and they take away

your --

JACKSON: Exceptional points.

BANFIELD: -- first amendment right and they take away your right to bear arms when you go into the can, too. So, we do -- we do that all the time.

JACKSON: Cannot argue.

BANFIELD: I think it`s right to maybe reassess when it comes to these (INAUDIBLE)

JACKSON: And it will be. Yes.

BANFIELD: Joey, thank you. I appreciate it. And to (INAUDIBLE) thank you as well for your contributions and I`m so sorry that you and these other

parents are going through it.

There`s an urgent manhunt tonight after the prime suspect and ex-boyfriend in the death of a beautiful young mom. He just vanished. But it`s hard to

stay gone for long.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: It`s been two weeks since the young mom in California vanished. This 21 years old and a favorite waitress at a local restaurant with an

adorable 2-year old daughter. That`s Karen Garcia right there. But Karen went missing. And her boyfriend immediately went missing, too, but not

before he did what most loved ones would do. He begged for her to come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any idea where Karen is?

SALVADOR GARCIA, JR., SUSPECT: No idea. I just put together what we`ve been told, what everybody else`s knows. Just kind of put it together but

not much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any leads from police?

GARCIA: No. I`ve talked to police officers and other police putting up flyers so far. They put out the vehicle and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this out of character for her? I mean, does she go off sometimes?

GARCIA: No, not like this. And then, to miss work, that`s never like her. She`s always there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you have a child together.

[19:40:00] GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of mother is she? I mean, would she ever leave her baby?

GARCIA: No, no. She loves her daughter. She`s her number one priority always.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, what do you do now?

GARCIA: Right now, I work and I try staying strong for her. It`s sad. I`m trying my best (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t blame you. I don`t blame you. Are you going to go along with them and search for her?

GARCIA: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And in fact, he did. After that interview, he did help search for her. But before long, he was gone, too. Strangely enough,

disappearing right around the time they found her body in that car in a parking lot, but an hour away from her home. Police say the couple had,

oh, yes, wait for it, recently broken up. In fact, just days before Karen was killed, and that the break up wasn`t mutual. And now, Salvador Garcia

is somewhere out there and on the run. Benjy Egel is a reporter with the Sacramento Bee. He -- well, his paper actually interviewed Salvador Garcia

right before he disappeared. Benjy, thanks for joining me. Real quickly, do they have any leads, are they any closer to finding this guy, or is he

truly -- I mean, has he just gone underground?

BENJY EGEL, REPORTER, THE SACRAMENTO BEE (via telephone): Thank you for having me, Ashley. They do have one lead that popped up maybe a couple of

days ago or so. The police at the police department (INAUDIBLE) see maybe driving a black 2011 Toyota Sienna van with California license plate number

6NYB823. That`s really all they know so far. They don`t know where he might be, they don`t know if he`s in Colusa or around the area or if he`s

fled somewhere north, south, or east at this point.

BANFIELD: Stolen, too, as I understand it. So, can I ask you, was your outfit suspicious of him doing that interview because that -- let me play a

little bit more of it because now that we know it would only be days before he would vanish after giving this sort of crocodile-tear-laced interview to

KOVR -- I believe was KOVR. Yes, KOVR, it`s our CNN affiliate. And you have the chance to have this -- your outfit had a chance to have this

conversation as well. I want to ask you after we watch this if you had any suspicions, if the Sacramento Bee was suspicious at all of this very, very

emotional boyfriend while he was begging us all to help find this missing girlfriend, but let`s play the KOVR interview as well. And now knowing

what you know, you can take a deep, deep look into those eyes. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m asking you, when is the last time you saw her?

GARCIA: Monday. Monday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Monday morning?

GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, Monday morning. Did you see her when she was leaving the apartment?

GARCIA: Yes. She got in her car and she took off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did she seem?

GARCIA: Just -- well, she`s in a hurry to get out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really?

GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she say where she was going?

GARCIA: No. She just said, well, I`m taking off. I thought she was going to her mom`s house. And I`m here (INAUDIBLE) here for like 6:00. I just -

- I told her I was going to drop off baby with her mom, she said OK, and that was the last thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was via text or on phone?

GARCIA: Text.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was text.

GARCIA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you said, "I`m going to drop off the baby." She said, OK, that was it?

GARCIA: Yes. And the next day, I tried calling her, sending her a message to let her know her mom was worried. No reply. Tried calling her multiple

times throughout the day, no response. The phone rings, but nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Benjy, did your outfit have any suspicions?

EGEL: You know, I think we did, we interviewed one of her friends before he had been named as a suspect. And the friend mentioned that they had

recently broken up after about nine years together. Any time you have someone disappear after the end of a relationship like that, I think that

you need to be a little suspicious of the ex-boyfriend on that point. So - -

BANFIELD: That`s an interesting point.

EGEL: -- but it wasn`t too surprising when he was named as the primary suspect to us.

BANFIELD: Let me bring in Tom Fuentes, a CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and former FBI assistant director. Tom, he`s 22 years old, just

how difficult is it to really disappear in the United States of America when there`s a manhunt after you?

TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Ashley, it is difficult. And -- but the question here is the police or the district

attorney in Colusa, California have not brought charges against him. So, they`re going to be unable to issue federal warrants for his arrest for

unlawful flight to avoid prosecution or one of the other violations where the federal government can bring all of the worldwide resources to bear to

try to apprehend him. So, right now, you know, apparently he`s just wanted for questioning regarding this matter and no formal charges. But to stay -

-

[19:45:04] BANFIELD: So, you don`t -- yes, you don`t get all -- you don`t get all the -- all the gear, all the money, and all the H.R. to find a guy

in a manhunt when you haven`t brought the charges, so that would have to be the next step.

FUENTES: Well, normally, in a manhunt, you want to be able to do everything you could possibly do to apprehend the person. That is get --

does he credit cards, are those cards being used, how much cash does he have, does he have an ATM card accessing money? Normally, fugitives or

people on the run go to mama, go to papa, you know, does he have relatives, do they live in the United States? Friends, neighbors, anybody that he

could go to for help because you`re not going to be able to stay on the lose for too long with money and without help.

BANFIELD: They always think they`re smarter -- they always think they`re smarter and then they trip themselves up. Tom Fuentes, thank you. Benjy

Egel, thank you as well.

Police are calling her a serial stowaway. And she`s 66 years old. This woman with a huge collection of mugshots managed to sneak onto yet another

flight, and this one international, all the way to London. And it is not the first time she has done this. How can she keep reoffending? That`s

next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:51:48] BANFIELD: An elderly woman arrested for hopping on a flight to London without a ticket and if it was the first time, OK, you know, a lot

of people get second chances when they do something naughty. This was not Marilyn Hartman first go-around, not even her second rodeo. No, she had

gotten on board planes illegally a whole bunch of times and has been arrested at least eight times before. Scary thing is how she did it at

Chicago, O`Hare International. Police say she made it through a TSA domestic checkpoint. Don`t ask. I don`t know how she did that. But she

did it without a ticket. And then, somehow got onto the shuttle. It took her to the international terminal. She wasn`t arrested until she landed at

Heathrow.

But according to multiple sources, Marilyn has been arrested at least eight times and stopped more than a dozen times at airports in Illinois,

California, Florida, and Arizona, all for breaching security. And here`s what she had to say after her arrest back in in 2014.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN HARTMAN, SERIAL STOWAWAY: It was stupid and it is something I don`t want to repeat. It was clearly wrong on my part, and I certainly

don`t want to do it again, because -- I certainly don`t want to do any jail time. Obviously, they`ll be on the watch for me, so I wouldn`t dare

attempt this again. I don`t want to be in that position. I want to go with a paid ticket.

Wonderful. I feel free as a bird. I wouldn`t want to encourage that behavior, because I`m as concerned about security as everyone else. So,

that`s why I don`t want to encourage it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: No. Because of the hearing last week, the judge released Marilyn Hartman on her own recognizance on the condition that she receives

some psychiatric help. And there`s no word on how that`s going right now. But honestly, when I saw the story today, Joey, I thought this was a

repeat, that script that we had a few years ago on a show I did on CNN called "LEGAL VIEW."

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: She`s back at it. There are five arrests in 2014, two in 2015, one in 2016, one in 2018. I don`t even know what to -- put up the row of

pictures again.

JACKSON: Love those mug shots.

BANFIELD: How does this happen?

JACKSON: Look, I can`t cast aspersions on our TSA because we both have to travel and I don`t want to be stopped nor want you to be stopped but the

reality is, they should potentially hire her to look at the flaws, look at the breaches, look at what she did, how she did it.

BANFIELD: You`re not kidding? Wow.

JACKSON: I`m not kidding. In order to shore up their security, and she`ll get a slap on the wrist. She`s released on her own recognisance, judge

should have said, bail. I know she`s, you know, 66, what have you.

BANFIELD: But come on, nine mug shots already for the same thing. I can`t believe they don`t have those nine mug shots that every single checkpoint

all around the country --

JACKSON: They will now. A day late, a dollar short.

BANFIELD: Yes. OK. So, a gas station robbery takes an unexpected turn when the suspect goes ahead and sets the counter on fire. That`s coming up

next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, police are searching for a man who robbed a D.C. gas station and then set the counter of the gas station

on fire. It was all caught on video surveillance. You can actually see the suspect coming in to the store, and for a while, it looks like he`s

just doing some shopping before he goes to pay. Police say he demanded money, and if the cashier refused that that`s when the suspect poured out a

flammable liquid and torched the place. And as the counter goes up in flames, he slips out the door. Thankfully, no one was hurt in all of this,

but he`s still out there. And they do want to find him sooner rather than later.

Thank you for watching, everybody. We`ll see you right back here tomorrow night, 6:00 Eastern for CRIME & JUSTICE. Up next, today marks the 10th

anniversary of the after Heath Ledger`s shocking death. What really killed Heath Ledger. "HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED" with Hill Harper begins right now.

END