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Details of Alleged Affair with Trump Made Clear in New Interview; Trump Administration Defends Tariffs, Says There Won't Be a Trade War. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 26, 2018 - 07:00   ET


COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS: -- but then, Grayson Allen, time stood still. The shot bouncing around the rim for the chance to win, but it falls out. You can imagine the feelings there.

[07:00:14] Well, it goes into overtime. That's where Malik Newman rose to the occasion for Kansas. He scored all 13 points for them in overtime, leading the Jay Hawks to the win over Duke. They go to the Final Four. It's in San Antonio.

And that is where they won the school's last national title ten years ago. So it's all set next Saturday for the Final Four. Kansas is taking on the other No. 1 seed, Villanova, in the late game while Cinderella, Loyola, Chicago, takes on Michigan. The team's 98-year- old sister chaplain, Sister G., as Chris mentions, she gave up losing for lent. Everything she touches turns to gold.


You're an afterthought.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Now, I've got to tell, the final game would be after Lent ends. It's after Easter. So, you know, hopefully, she maintains this newfound behavior of not losing.

CAMEROTA: Oh, I think that she has a direct connection to the heavens.

All right, Coy, thank you very much. Thanks to our international viewers for watching. For you, "CNN TALK" is next. For our U.S. viewers, NEW DAY continues right now.

CUOMO: All right. Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

Adult film star Stormy Daniels breaking her silence about her alleged affair with President Trump in her first on-camera interview. So Daniels tells Anderson Cooper on "60 Minutes" she was threatened in a Las Vegas parking lot in 2011 to keep quiet. She also claims she felt pressured into signing documents denying their relationship.

Coming up in this hour, we have former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci and Stormy Daniels's lawyer, Michael Avenatti, to discuss the implications.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So as that scandal consumes headlines, there is more reported flux in the White House. A source tells CNN that President Trump is getting ready to fire his embattled V.A. Secretary, David Shulkin. And Chris Ruddy, a close ally of Mr. Trump's, says the president will likely make even more personnel changes soon.

So we have it all covered for you. Let's begin with CNN's Sara Sidner. She is live in Los Angeles with our top story.

Good morning, Sara.


You know, we don't know if the president watched "60 Minutes" last night but certainly, a lot of people did. We do know that he ended up dining with Michael Cohen, his person attorney, someone who is in the middle of this controversy.


SIDNER (voice-over): Stephanie Clifford, a.k.a. Stormy Daniels, breaking her silence to "60 Minutes" about her alleged affair with Donald Trump and the aftermath.

STORMY DANIELS, ALLEGES AFFAIR WITH DONALD TRUMP: He's like, "Wow, you -- you are special. You remind me of my daughter."

SIDNER: Daniels telling Anderson Cooper that that was what Trump told her when they met for the first time in 2006. She says their only sexual encounter happened afterwards in his Tahoe Resort hotel room.

DANIELS: He's like, "Have you seen my new magazine?"

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR/"60 MINUTES": He was showing you his own picture on the cover of a magazine?

DANIELS: Right. And so I was, like, "Does this normally work for you?"

And I was like, someone should take that magazine and spank you with it." And I said, you know, "Give me that."

I just remember, like, "You wouldn't."

"Hand it over." And so he did. And I was like, "Turn around, drop them."

COOPER: You told Donald Trump to turn around and take off his pants?


COOPER: And did he?


SIDNER: Eventually, the joking stopped, and she says she and Trump had sex for the first and only time during their relationship. The White House has denied the affair.

COOPER: Did you want to have sex with him?

DANIELS: No. But I didn't -- I didn't say no. I'm not a victim. I'm not --

COOPER: It was entirely consensual?

DANIELS: Oh, yes. Yes.

COOPER: You work in an industry where condom use is an issue. Did he use a condom?


COOPER: Melania Thump had recently given birth to his son just a few months before. Did he mention his wife or child at all in this?

DANIELS: I asked, and he brushed it aside and said, "Oh, yes, yes. You know, don't worry about that. We don't even -- we have separate rooms and stuff."

SIDNER: About four years after the relationship ended, Clifford talked about the alleged affair to the sister company of "InTouch Magazine." She was offered $15,000 for the story, but she says she never collected. Clifford says the article didn't initially publish. Trump's attorney, Michael Cohen, reportedly threatened to sue the magazine.

A few weeks after she did that interview, Clifford says she was personally threatened in Las Vegas.

DANIELS: I was in a parking lot going to a fitness class with my infant daughter. And a guy walked up on me and said to me, "Leave Trump alone. Forget the story." And then he leaned around and looked at my daughter and said, "That's a beautiful little girl. It would be a shame if something happened to her mom."

SIDNER: Daniels did not file a police report about the alleged threat, saying she was too afraid. Cohen's attorney now accusing Clifford of defamation and demanding a retraction in a letter immediately following the "60 Minutes" interview, insisting Cohen "had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any such person or incident and does not even believe that such a person exists or that such incident ever occurred."

[07:05:08] Cohen brokered a confidentiality agreement with Clifford days before the presidential election, paying her $130,000 to keep quiet, although Clifford says she wanted to tell her story.

COOPER: Was it hush money to stay silent?

DANIELS: Yes. The story was coming out again. I was concerned for my family and their safety.

COOPER: I think some people watching this are going to doubt that you entered into this negotiation, because you feared for your safety. They're going to think that you saw an opportunity.

DANIELS: I think the fact that I didn't even negotiate, I just quickly said yes to this very, you know, strict contract and what most people will agree with me extremely low number is all the proof I need.

SIDNER: But in 2018, Clifford signed two letters unequivocally denying the affair. One was sent by Cohen. The other by Daniels' former manager, Gina Rodriguez, saying, "I am not denying this affair because of hush money. I am denying it because it never happened."

Clifford telling Cooper she was pressured by her manager and attorney at the time, a claim her former lawyer denies.

COOPER: So you signed and released a statement that said, "I'm not denying this affair because I was paid in hush money. I'm denying it because it never happened." That's a lie?


COOPER: If it was untruthful, why did you sign it?

DANIELS: Because they made it sound like I had no choice.

COOPER: No one was putting a gun to your head?

DANIELS: Not physical violence, no.

COOPER: You thought that there would be some legal repercussions if you didn't sign it?

DANIELS: Correct. As a matter of fact, the exact sentence was "They can make your life hell in many different ways."

COOPER: "They" being?

DANIELS: I'm not exactly sure who "they" were. I believed it to be Michael Cohen.


SIDNER: Now, we received a statement from her former attorney, Keith Davidson, who said he'd be happy to talk if she would allow him out of the attorney/client privilege situation, and she has not done that.

We talked to her attorney, Michael Avenatti, who said that Mr. Davidson should be concentrating on finding an ethics class and not trying to talk to the media.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. All right. Let's discuss what the potential fallout for this interview is and just talk about what's going on in the White House in general. Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci.

Anthony, thank you for taking the time.


CUOMO: So did you see this last night?


CUOMO: All right. What do you think the fallout is?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I mean, I think the truth of the matter is now I think that the -- I think there will be less fallout than people think. Because I think people have been anesthetized to these sorts of scandals. I mean, it goes all the way back to President Clinton. So to me, I think that we'll talk about it. It will be another news cycle, and then people will move on. That's my prediction.

CUOMO: The president has been unusually quiet about it. Why do you think that is? Because usually he comes after an opponent. Because he went after even the women who were claiming harassment during the election. He went after them.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen, I haven't talked to him about the specific strategy here. But I think that the best thing to do here, and again, if I were offering any advice, is I would just let it go at this point, and move on. Let the news cycle create another news cycle, and there will be different information out there.

In the meantime, he can focus on his record, the economic success, the fact that he's negotiating now with the Chinese related to these trade tariffs, which will be a very big boon for the market. And I think the market --

CUOMO: It's not right now.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, the stock market is mis-sized. I think what's the stock market's looking at is we're entering a trade war when, in fact, it's happening as the president is actually negotiating on behalf of American industry.

CUOMO: Right. But that's their issue. Right? You know this world very well.

SCARAMUCCI: That's what I would be doing.

CUOMO: Right. Most people just know you from Trump world. They don't know your financial background. That's how we know each other.


CUOMO: There's no question that they're guessing on Wall Street. Right? That is organized gambling that we allow in the stock market. They take -- and make bets.

However, it's his tactics that bother them, not necessarily a macroeconomic -- you know, their analysis of it. But this is how he negotiates, you know, with China, with about aluminum and steel tariffs. That it's too aggressive, and it's going to create a fallout that they won't be able to control the negativity. SCARAMUCCI: But hold on a second. He's putting a deal together with

the Koreans.

CUOMO: Right.

SCARAMUCCI: He's working with the E.U. I was in Europe last week and the Middle East. And he's working with them to figure out where the tariffs are going to be there, and he's quietly negotiating with the Chinese. And so we may not like his tactics, some of the people on Wall Street. But the tactics have been effective for him over the 45, 50 years that he's been --

CUOMO: But he's never done anything like this before. He's never negotiated a deal anywhere like anything like this.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, here's what I would say to you. No, not in the accepts of the political arena, but, yes, in the sense of business and building his brand and, you know, creating something out of nothing.

[07:10:08] Now, we can disagree about some of his tactics. But I would tell you that, as an entrepreneur going from zero to one, as the president has done, is very, very impressive.

So -- so let's see how this unfolds. But here's my guess. The Chinese do not want a trade war. They will come together to trade. If you look at the agreements, Chris, they are unbalanced. The president is correct about that. And so if anything, if the Chinese reduced their tariffs on U.S. goods and services, that will be freer trade than the trade that we're experiencing right now.

CUOMO: But we also know that -- and one of the problems with this politically is that it gets so dense and complicated so quickly that it's easy to deceive people. Well, we have a trade imbalance. Well, they have a different tariff structure that's worse than ours.

Right. But we have also accepted their crushing labor market, which gives us cheaper goods. And the idea that you have a trade imbalance isn't always a bad thing. And Anthony, you know this. You actually talked to me about this once. Because it means that people are buying up a lot of stuff from this other place. And that's good, because you're getting goods into your country, and they are goods that they want.

So the analysis isn't as simple as an imbalance.

SCARAMUCCI: I understand that. But here's the president's genius. Let me just explain this quickly.

If China is the Saudi Arabia manufacturing. Like, if Saudi is crude oil, China is manufacturing. The United States, for 70 years, since the Second World War, has been the Saudi Arabia of consumerism. And so the conversation between these two leaders has to be help me help American workers, middle-class families and lower middle-class families with more aggregate demand.

Because at the end of the day, rising wages in those categories will lead to more global growth, Chris --

CUOMO: Right.

SCARAMUCCI: Not just in the United States. Because what's happening right now, and we discovered this during the Obama administration, wealthy individuals and government spending is not enough to get the economy back up to 3 percent.

And so I think what the president is trying to say to the Chinese is that "Your consumer market, which is the market that I represent, America, help me figure out a way to get these wages up."

And so one of the things to do in that situation is to rebalance a trade deal. Just one more quick point. Since the Second World War, the United States made a decision to uneven these trade deals. Why did we do that? We made a decision that we would create more global economic interdependence and a rising global middle class. That would ultimately lead to less conflict.

That has worked very successfully, but it has had the deleterious side effect of hurting lower middle-class and middle-class wages.

CUOMO: What I'm saying is this. Macroeconomics aside. You know, if you want to build up your labor base in this country, you invest in innovation, because that's what took away the manufacturing. You train up your workers and you incentivize new economy businesses and different service economy businesses, because that's our economy anyway.

He can do those things. We'll see if he will. He's gone this route. We'll see where it takes us.

SCARAMUCCI: I think you have to both. You have to package both of them.

CUOMO: But we need to see that part, because the idea of bringing back coal, bringing back steel --

SCARAMUCCI: But it's not just him. Just look what happened with the omnibus deal. OK. At the end of the day, I would resubmit to everybody that lives in Washington, where is the 25-year plan for America? Where is the 25-year plan --

CUOMO: These guys don't even think 25 weeks --

SCARAMUCCI: Well, but the Chinese do. The Chinese are thinking 15, 100 --

CUOMO: That is a political culture difference. I mean, they have a political dynasty in place there, not putatively, like in North Korea. But they do in terms of --

SCARAMUCCI: I would -- I would make the argument rather than just dismissing what I'm saying, and not saying that you are but, like, we're dismissing it as a culture. I would stop everybody, hit the pause button and say, "Hey, listen, we need a 25- or 50-year plan. If you want to compete with the Chinese and other world leaders in the economy, we've got to do it together.

CUOMO: Let me ask you two other things in terms of political dynamics. You were here a couple of weeks ago. You were like, a few weeks ago. You said, Man, it's rough in that White House. I don't care what anybody tells

you. John Kelly has got problems in that White House."

Since then, it seems to have only gotten worse, since you came and blew that whistle. They tried to close ranks. The Porter situation was one thing. We still don't know what went wrong there. So in terms of he's going to be the man with transparency and accountability. We still don't really know.

And now there's more and more fallout. Now, it looks like Shulkin is going to be gone. Why is this happening?

SCARAMUCCI: OK, well, I want to state for the record, though, it's not like I want bad things to happen. OK, I'm wishing --

CUOMO: Nobody thinks that.

SCARAMUCCI: I'm wishing John Kelly well. I want the White House to work smoothly and be completely functional.

CUOMO: But it isn't.

SCARAMUCCI: I was saying that for a reason, because it was true at the time.

CUOMO: It seems more true.

SCARAMUCCI: Maybe. We'll have to see what happens. If the president is making more changes and he's making more strategic changes in personnel, maybe that will smooth things out on a going-forward basis.

CUOMO: See, that's the thing. Who says it's strategic? It's been such a bloodletting of people. We've never seen this kind of turnover. He said he would bring in the best people. That's one basis of criticism. But this doesn't seem to be about strategic choices. It just seems to be like, you're out and we don't know what the vision is.

SCARAMUCCI: I had this conversation with you on your primetime show. And congratulations about the primetime show.

CUOMO: Thank you, Anthony.

[07:15:07] SCARAMUCCI: You know, he's an entrepreneur. And so, I've started two business in the country, sold two businesses, or almost sold my last business. What happens in the first two years of every business is you get heavy turnover. And so he's an entrepreneur. The American people elected not a politician --

CUOMO: Who runs a business like this?

SCARAMUCCI: I have. I've run -- CUOMO: You've turned over 45 percent of your employees in a year?

SCARAMUCCI: I was actually looking at it --

CUOMO: That's called a bankruptcy. Or narrowly when you have to --

SCARAMUCCI: This is my issue with you. You've never run one of -- have you ever run a business?

CUOMO: I've never run a business but I've worked in corporate organization and structure. Nobody gets rid of half their workforce, even in a bankruptcy.

SCARAMUCCI: This is a start-up. OK? And the way you've got to look at a startup is he's trying to put personnel on the team -- on the field that, like him --

CUOMO: The White House is a start-up organization? That's what it is. At the highest echelon of executive activity in our democracy?

SCARAMUCCI: Again, you want to talk only on this statement.

CUOMO: That needed to be called out.

SCARAMUCCI: Hold on a second, Chris. You hired an American business leader who is an entrepreneur to run the White House.

CUOMO: Find me a business of any merit that had this kind of turnover.

SCARAMUCCI: I think every one of these start-ups in Silicon Valley go through --

CUOMO: This is not a start-up organization. This is supposed to be the highest level of performance.

SCARAMUCCI: Chris, and look at the performance. Go step back and look at the economic dashboard. Look at what's going on in terms of economic activity.

CUOMO: You have largely a continuation of where we were before.

SCARAMUCCI: I disagree. I disagree.

CUOMO: What are you talking about? All of these things have been trending in this direction.

SCARAMUCCI: Just the bully pulpit of the White House and the massive deregulation that's taken place over the last 13 or 14 months has led to more business activity, more business growth. I was in Europe and the Middle East last week. The movement of 35 percent to 21 percent on the taxes has opened America for business again. There's more capital investment coming to America.

CUOMO: Look, that may be true. We'll see. But the idea -- the idea that they were paying 35 percent as a business tax you know just isn't true. That was the nominal rate. It wasn't the effective rate.

SCARAMUCCI: I left Dublin last night. You can go down the canal. You can see every American corporation in Dublin because of their 15 percent tax rate. We have to move those business and move those shops back to America. America is reopened for business. You don't want to give the president credit for that or his economic team, but I do.

CUOMO: That's not the point.

SCARAMUCCI: Going from 35 to 21 percent, it's made us way more competitive.

CUOMO: It may. We can't measure it.

SCARAMUCCI: And by the way, let me just finish. Three million -- 3 million new jobs. And we've downloaded about $36 billion in --

CUOMO: It's about 1.7 million new jobs since he's been president. It's a continuation of a trend, although we had a bad year in 2016. Most of the metrics are consistent with where they are. That's OK. It's good that he's continuing.

SCARAMUCCI: We're going to debate the accounting. But you can't tell me that if you -- if taxes are priced for services and if you cut the taxes from 35 to 21 percent, which is a 40 percent decrease.

CUOMO: Right.

SCARAMUCCI: Forty percent power out of American corporations that says not going to help America.

CUOMO: Well first of all, there are economists who make my hair fall out with their intelligence who would say exactly that. I'm saying give it time. Not me. I'd be out of a job.

I want to see what it does over time. That's the way to measure it. We'll see if helping small businesses, something that was very meaningful, we'll see if that takes root and creates more hiring.

SCARAMUCCI: He's doing a good job. And it is showing up in the polling data. And so even though we know in 2010, 2006, 1982, midterm elections are usually very difficult for first-term presidents, when you look at the generic ballot, I'm not saying that's how it's going to work to see in November. It's very tight.

CUOMO: It's pretty tight.

SCARAMUCCI: Because wages are up.

CUOMO: I think that there are a lot of reasons for it. I think the biggest thing he has going for him is this contempt for government in general so that neither party can really gain an advantage. But let me ask you two things real quick.

Do you think John Kelly, from what you're understanding, is safe in his job for now? SCARAMUCCI: I don't know. That will be up to the president. Like I

said, I want John Kelly to be safe in his job. I have nothing against John Kelly.

CUOMO: But you haven't -- you haven't heard where you think he's the next one?

SCARAMUCCI: No. I think the president likes him.

CUOMO: All right. Do you think Kellyanne Conway should seriously consider your old job? Communications director?

SCARAMUCCI: I think Kellyanne Conway has been a brilliant public servant and has served the president nobly and done an amazing job. And if that's the spot that she wants to be in and he wants to be in, I think she'd be great at it.

But there's a number of different things she's doing for the president right now. It will be interested to see what happens there, but if she does do that job, I wish her nothing but great success. She's a wonderful person.

CUOMO: Last one. If you were advising the president directly on these issues, would you tell him to settle these suits with the three women?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I don't -- I don't know the right answer to that. That's really more of a Michael Cohen situation. You know, and I've talked to Michael about it.

My guess is, is that again, I'm not her lawyer. But if I was her lawyer, and I've looked at the agreement. Section 1.1 of that agreement say "and/or," Chris. And I know the lawyer will say something different. But I can't find anything in California case law.

[07:20:12] CUOMO: Me either.

SCARAMUCCI: That says "and/or" is not OK.

CUOMO: Me neither.

SCARAMUCCI: I think she's going to get hurt on this contract.

CUOMO: I think the idea that because Trump didn't sign it means that there's no deal. But that doesn't mean that the lawsuit goes away. It stays out there. That's why I was asking about settling. But we'll see what he does.

SCARAMUCCI: We'll see what he does.

CUOMO: Anthony, thank you very much.


SCARAMUCCI: -- didn't walk, Chris. CUOMO: Look, there's no question of why, what he's doing and its impact and what happens going forward. That's all I'm saying, is we have to measure it over time. I'm not saying it's bad.

SCARAMUCCI: I've got that bald app. I'm going to take a picture of you, and I'm going to send it on my Twitter feed.

CUOMO: I happen to have a very nicely shaved head that way. I'll show you in the break. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for that segue. That was great. Thank you, gentlemen.

Stormy Daniels's attorney says the "60 Minutes" interview is just the beginning. What does that mean? Attorney Michael Avenatti joins us after the break.



DANIELS: I was in a parking lot going to a fitness class with my infant daughter, taking you know, the seats facing backwards. In the back seat, you know, diaper bag and I'm, you know, getting all the stuff out. And a guy walked up on me and said to me, "Leave Trump alone. Forget the story." And then he leaned around and looked at my daughter and said, "That's a beautiful little girl. It would be a shame if something happened to her mom." And then he was gone.


CAMEROTA: A major revelation in Stormy Daniels's "60 Minutes" interview. The adult film actress says in 2011 she was threatened in a Las Vegas parking lot after agreeing to talk to a tabloid magazine about her alleged affair with Donald Trump.

Joining us now to discuss the interview is the attorney for Stormy Daniels, Michael Avenatti.

Michael, thanks very much for being here.


CUOMO: That moment that she's talking about in 2011 where she says she was threatened, does she think that Michael Cohen for the Trump camp was behind that?

AVENATTI: There's no doubt. That's the only place it could have came from. It certainly didn't come from someone that was close to her. It didn't come from the magazine. There's only one other place it could have possibly come from.

And quite honestly, every mother in America can identify with the story that she just told and how frightening and terrifying that would be, were they in her situation.

CAMEROTA: She said that to this day, she could identify that person. So what does that person look like?

AVENATTI: Well, we're in the process of discovering, investigating exactly who that person was, and we're going to get to the bottom of it.

CAMEROTA: Michael Cohen put out a statement about this last night after the interview. He says in truth, Mr. Cohen -- his lawyer, put out a statement. "In truth, Mr. Cohen had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any such person or incident, and does not even believe that any such person exists or that such an incident ever occurred. You and your client's false statements about Mr. Cohen accuse him of criminal conduct and constitute, among other claims, libel per se and intentional infliction of emotional distress. It would also appear that your statements of alleged criminal conduct are being made to obtain an advantage in a civil dispute, which is also improper."

What's your response?

AVENATTI: Michael Cohen needs to stop hiding behind pieces of paper and come clean with the American public. He lied about the $130,000. He's lied to the American people.

CAMEROTA: What did he lie about the $130,000? Because he's admitted that he paid that.

AVENATTI: Well, there's no question that the $130,000 was paid. The issue is where it comes from. He wants the American people to believe that Donald Trump knew nothing of this agreement, that he advanced $130,000. It's laughable. It's not believable. It's time for this guy to come on camera and sit down with you or others and answer some hard questions.

CAMEROTA: You've suggested and tweet that this is just the beginning. The interview that we saw last night was just the beginning. What else do you have?

AVENATTI: I haven't suggested it; I meant it. It is just the beginning. We have a whole host of evidence. This is not going away. And Mr. Cohen and the president better come clean with the American people, and they better do it quickly.

CAMEROTA: What kind of evidence do you have?

AVENATTI: Again, I'm not going to get into the details of the evidence. We're in early stages of this. But suffice it to say, we are only getting started.

CAMEROTA: When are you going to reveal that?

AVENATTI: Over the next few weeks and months.

CAMEROTA: And what are you trying to prove?

AVENATTI: We're going to prove that Mr. Cohen's statements to the American people are false. That at all times Mr. Trump knew about this, knew about the $130,000, was fully aware of it, and with the assistance of Mr. Cohen, sought to intimidate and put my client under his thumb.

That's what we're going to prove.

CAMEROTA: And I think that there was a tweet, maybe, of a CD. Do you have pictures? You have photos, you have text messages? What sorts of things. There it is right there that they tweeted out. What is that?

AVENATTI: Again, I'm not going to get into the details of what is on that media, but suffice it to say we have a lot of evidence in this case.

CAMEROTA: What does Stormy Daniels want? I mean, in the interview, she suggests that she has hoped this never would go public. She signed the agreement. She got the $130,000, though, so that she wouldn't speak. So now what's changed?

AVENATTI: She didn't get the benefit of the bargain. It wasn't just about the $130,000. It was also about Mr. Trump agreeing to release her of any and all claims and agreeing to stay silent on this. That did not happen. When Mr. Cohen went public a couple months ago and began spreading lies about my client, she wants the entire truth be laid bare for the American people, and she wants the American people to have all the facts, all the facts relating to the agreement and the $130,000. And all Americans should want to know those facts.

CAMEROTA: When you say that, when Michael Cohen went public, it basically voided the agreement that she had. That's what you're saying, right? She signed this agreement to stay silent, and then you're saying that Michael Cohen started this.

AVENATTI: Well, I'm saying that, in a nutshell, but our position is that the agreement never was in effect to begin with, because Mr. Trump never signed it.

CAMEROTA: I understand. But she signed it. OK. She signed it, and she got the money. So from your side, from Stormy Daniels's side, she should comply with the agreement. No?

AVENATTI: No. We don't agree. If you offer to sell me your house and only I sign it, that doesn't mean you have to sell your house.

CAMEROTA: I understand. But why didn't you challenge him on this at that moment? Why not, when she signed it, say, "Hey, this isn't signed by Donald Trump"? Why now?